American Athletic Conference has 'no plans' to add another team. What does that mean for the BYU Cougars?

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  • Son of a Ute. Draper, UT
    July 30, 2019 4:57 p.m.

    Threads packed with Logical Fallacies and eloquent hyperbole, knock yourselves out.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 25, 2019 3:57 p.m.

    one whYner:

    You have a habit of running away. First you post something "uneducated" -- like the sort of comment mendenmidmajor would accuse you guys of -- then get proven wrong, then act like you're above it all, and perhaps even throwing in an ad hominem attack. Your goal is to change the subject to shake the spotlight off your erroneous and/or illogical musings. Won't work though. I posted "facts". You went with "frantic and emotion". Edge: Naval Vet

    AAC schools make more money than ybU-p. Proof provided in my July 24, 2019 1:16 p.m. post on this very thread. How miserable and embarrassing for you.

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 24, 2019 9:21 p.m.

    Naval, before I forget. Being an Air Force vet, at a boys for your service. Something far more important than BYU and Utah football. Common ground infinitely more important than any disagreement here. Congrats on preseason prediction of PAC 12 championship. I hope to see them in the Rose Bowl. Late poor no-call last year perhaps prevented it in the Washington game.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 24, 2019 2:31 p.m.

    Naval,

    You have quite a bit of interest on what my thoughts are. Not sure if I should be flattered or creeped out.

    I applaud you for seeing the point of finances in my comment.

    You have stated that you don't believe the financial statement of BYU sports, so we have nothing to discuss.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 24, 2019 12:09 p.m.

    Samejersey,

    Your advice is like telling someone that they need to be taller. It's wasted advice because byu, and it's fans, want to be in a good conference.

    Define good conference.

    Good means good for byu. Good for byu starts with finances and envelopes exposure and branding.

    BYU makes more than any G5 team.

    Exposure is excellent with a diversity of games and national TV coverage.

    Any P5 is a step up. Every G5 is a step down.

    Your point is classic ute or aggie backlash to perceived pride of BYU fans, however the main point of football for schools is financial - and choosing to ignore that is hubris on your end. Perhaps your rival is in the best situation they can be in.

    Your criticism lacks advice. You are a critic and not a fan, to give advice you'd need to want byu to succeed. So what's your thoughtful advice?

  • SameJersey Kaysville, UT
    July 23, 2019 8:23 p.m.

    One Liner

    This mentality represents everything wrong with the current state of BYU football, which is not good.

    Players don’t play for money. And, they can get on tv anywhere these days. The Aggies have 11 nationally televised games this year. What an archaic argument in the era of you tube and social media.

    Kids want to play for winning teams with winning coaches who can lead them to accolades and championships. Unless you are Alabama or Clemson, you need a good conference for that. And, no, BYU can’t offer that.

    The truth? Your AD took the entire Cougar athletic program over the proverbial cliff. Meanwhile, everyone on board keeps singing the Cougar fight song not recognizing they just haven’t hit the inevitable bottom. Not recognizing no more ropes are being thrown to save them. At this point, it is clear the Cougars could not get back into a decent G5 conference if they wanted to.

    The point is BYU can no longer recruit the talent they need to win — no amount of money is going to change that. You need a good conference. You need division and conference championships. You need rivalry games that mean something.

    You have none. Meanwhile, your “rivals” get stronger...

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 23, 2019 1:12 p.m.

    "What it means is no one in their right mind would play for BYU over the U, Colorado, Utah State, Boise State, or any other MWC team for that matter. "

    BYU recruits are unique, we just landed a QB over Alabama recently.

    I was chatting with the mom of a RB who's getting tons of attention and offers from all over right now, interest from Utah and USU, he's looking at USC and some SEC schools, but his mom said "let's be honest, if BYU offers then he's taking it".

    While your mind can't see the benefit of BYU, many minds do.

    there are a lot of non-local players across the US who have the mentality "if BYU offers I'm there", I don't see a lot of Utah guys saying the same thing. That being said Utah gets better recruits in general over BYU, but BYU will always get the BYU guys and there are enough of them out there that BYU will continue to do fine.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    July 23, 2019 11:25 a.m.

    "What it means is no one in their right mind would play for BYU over the U, Colorado, Utah State, Boise State, or any other MWC team for that matter. "

    I despise the Indie mess that BYU put itself in, but this comment is absurd. Zach Wilson had signed with BSU and flipped when BYU offered him. While recruiting in Indie purgatory is tough - BYU gets its share of players that the aforementioned schools have recruited.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 23, 2019 7:54 a.m.

    What kid says "I want to play for a conference!"

    They want to be on TV, BYU is a sure thing.

    They want tradition in football, BYU has that.

    They want an education, BYU is an amazing school.

    They want a culture, it's not for everyone but it's unique church culture does attract many.

    Ultimately this is about money, and BYU is beyond all G5 teams in terms of money. That's how you grade football, not warm fuzzies.

    Independence is working financially and a better fan alternative than anything else. I think it's going forward about 3 more years.

  • SameJersey Kaysville, UT
    July 22, 2019 6:32 p.m.

    What it means is curtains for the Y.

    No one, and I mean NO ONE, wants to play for a subpar independent G5 with no conference. Don’t believe me? Ask New Mexico State.

    What it means is that the Cougars and their inept AD waited too long to reaffiliate. What it means is that they are heading straight for yet another losing season — and for many other losing seasons in the indefinite future.

    Look, you can’t recruit talent as a mediocre G5 if you have no conference. And, what it means is that neither the MWC nor the American will take the Cougars.

    Failing to also report that ESPN has inked a new deal with USU. All but one Aggie game will be nationally televised this season either through ESPN or CBS Sports.

    What it means is no one in their right mind would play for BYU over the U, Colorado, Utah State, Boise State, or any other MWC team for that matter.

    What it means is they are going to only recruit everyone else’s leftovers — not just this year, but for the foreseeable and indefinite future.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    July 22, 2019 2:25 p.m.

    "Athletic director Tom Holmoe said at the program's annual media day in June that contract extension talks with the network are ongoing."

    Sorry - I'm not buying what Holmoe is selling.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 22, 2019 12:04 p.m.

    "...In 2010, when the invitations went out, only three teams had been invited: Utah, Texas, and Utah – in that order." -- Naval Vet, July 22, 2019 10:42 a.m.

    Whoops! I'd meant to say...

    ...only three teams had been invited: Colorado, Texas, and Utah – in that order.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 22, 2019 10:43 a.m.

    Cougalum (3 of 3):

    “Do you think that the PAC 12 would ever, ever, ever choose Utah over Texas and Oklahoma? That is going beyond being a fan. That is delusional.”

    Not as delusional as your insistence that anybody ever said that. You created that straw man, then believed it. Now THAT’s “delusional”.

    “I will just have to go on rooting for both schools and enjoy the consternation of both schools’ fans when I doubt their lack of self awareness.”

    …said the “uneducated” fan mendenmidmajor was talking about. Talk about lacking self-awareness. Typical hypocritical coug.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 22, 2019 10:42 a.m.

    Cougalum (2 of 3):

    1. Oklahoma had never been invited. In 2010, when the invitations went out, only three teams had been invited: Utah, Texas, and Utah – in that order. When Texas said, “no”, the Pac-10 saw no reason to pursue the others. “Texas” was the Pac-10’s goal all along. But without “Texas”, none of the other Big 12 South schools really made any sense.

    2. In 2011, Oklahoma and Oklahoma St both formally applied for Pac-12 membership. So the Pac-12 once again tried to woo the “Longhorns”, but Texas didn’t want to come, so the Pac-12 told the OK schools, “no”.

    3. Literally NOBODY on this thread said the Pac-12 preferred Utah over Texas & Oklahoma. You just made that straw man up. How frantic and emotional of you.

    “You however claim there was a behind the scenes agreement with the PAC 12 that Utah was in notwithstanding the conference’s all out attempts to get Texas and Oklahoma. That is what I found laughable.”

    Read the article. Then discover how “laughable” your comment really was.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 22, 2019 10:43 a.m.

    Cougalum (1 of 3):

    “Let’s assume that the U had been “working hard” for an invitation to the PAC 12 for many years. If that is so (it has never been mentioned by the head coach or the AD)…”

    There WAS no “assumption” made, and yes, it HAD been mentioned. If you’d care to dig your head out of the sand, you could Google the article “The Right Fit: An Oral History of How Utah Joined the Pac-12” by Dan Sorensen (Jul 11, 2018) in 247sports.

    “And yes the U was at the right place (geography close to the conference) and at the right time (when the conference needed to expand and their first two choices Texas and Oklahoma didn’t want to come).”

    Geography certainly played a role. There’s a REASON why neither Ohio State, Clemson, nor Alabama had ever been invited to join the league. But you’re wrong about Oklahoma. There’s often a misconception as to why the Sooners never accepted an invitation from the Pac-10/12, and that’s due primarily to cougar fans penchant for lies, spin, and palatable folklore. But here’s there truth…

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 22, 2019 10:16 a.m.

    Bluto (2 of 2):

    And you are NOT getting $30.7M from alumni donations and cougartails. If you were, then neither mendenmidmajor, nor Holmoe, would have ever admitted that your indy-irrelevance was “unsustainable”. I’m suggesting that there’s been some “creative accounting” going on down there. Such as…

    (a) Receiving tithing dollars, but claiming you’re not
    (b) Counting institutional revenues that don’t actually belong to the athletic department
    (c) Including interfund transfer credits, sans realized contra-revenue

    You’re an “uneducated” fan – like mendenmidmajor said. But to “educated” ones, we know that $30.7M is too high.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 22, 2019 10:16 a.m.

    Bluto (1 of 2):

    So laughable that you don't understand that (1) your "ticket sales" had already been counted in the aforementioned $42.4M, and (2) your TV revenues had already been reported by ESPN to be $4M. That still leaves $33M.

    The average "Nike" contract with Pac-12 schools is $2.64M. You're not getting that much. You'd be LUCKY to get $2.5M. Al-JazoobieTV is a financial wash (i.e. it's owned by the Church, and the church paying the church is like you removing $20 from your left pocket, and putting it in your right pocket. You didn't just become $20 richer). So to get to $33M, you're essentially arguing that you all got $30.7M in cougartails and alumni donations.

    Here's what I believe is the more "plausible" accounting: Holmoe is pulling an "Enron" -- aka, sustained by institutionalized, systemic, and creatively planned accounting fraud, aka "exaggerated revenues". Because with your current reported $46.4M coming from the aggregation of your ESPN contract, the rest of your athletic department, and a "high estimate" of an additional $2.5M from Nike, that still brings us to $30.7 "mystery millions".

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 21, 2019 5:02 p.m.

    “PAC Academics and research? Wash State? Oregon State? Arizona State?”

    Unlike byu-p, all of those schools are Tier-1 research institutions.

    Yes, byu-p would be academically unqualified for PAC-12 inclusion, period.

    Go Utes!

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 21, 2019 3:00 p.m.

    PAC Academics and research? Wash State? Oregon State? Arizona State? I can’t wait for PAC 12 expansion in 2023: Colorado School of Mines? MIT?

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 20, 2019 11:10 p.m.

    Again, I admire and congratulate the U. I am sincerely happy for them and agree that they have done extremely well. I deplore independence and am disappointed with the performance of the BYU team and Holmoe. Satisfied? I am astounded that you think the any conference would not strongly prefer Texas and Oklahoma but if it makes I you feel better (I don’t know why you need to feel better in light of Utah’s outstanding success and very bright future) but if you need that much validation, I am glad you have it. I will just have to go on rooting for both schools and enjoy the consternation of both schools’ fans when I doubt their lack of self awareness.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 20, 2019 8:57 p.m.

    Cougalum - St. George, UT
    July 20, 2019 3:51 p.m.
    Wacpadding: I have no doubt that Utah was trying to make itself a more attractive school. You however claim there was a behind the scenes agreement with the PAC 12 that Utah was in notwithstanding the conference’s all out attempts to get Texas and Oklahoma. That is what I found laughable. Do you think that the PAC 12 would ever, ever, ever choose Utah over Texas and Oklahoma? That is going beyond being a fan. That is delusional.
    _____

    I will stick to facts thank you.
    Go ahead and believe whatever you want.
    Since Utah joined the PAC. I have heard every excuse and rumor from disappointed BYU fans how it happened. Basically I have stopped responding to them.
    I am so tired of this topic, and so are many other Utah fans ( I don't claim to speak for everyone ).

  • 46 & 2 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 20, 2019 7:02 p.m.

    Cougalum:

    Apparently, you and many other coug fans were in attendance at ALL the PAC meetings discussing expansion. Maybe you guys could provide more intimate details? I mean...since you were there and all.

    I guess all that maters at the end of the day is, the Utes are IN the PAC 12! And have been steadily improving each year. Exceeding expectations in a lot of areas. And it’s been loads of fun. A very bright and exciting future us fans have.

    Shall we discuss what’s transpired since going independent for your cougs? As well as the trends we’ve been witnessing?

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 20, 2019 3:51 p.m.

    Wacpadding: I have no doubt that Utah was trying to make itself a more attractive school. You however claim there was a behind the scenes agreement with the PAC 12 that Utah was in notwithstanding the conference’s all out attempts to get Texas and Oklahoma. That is what I found laughable. Do you think that the PAC 12 would ever, ever, ever choose Utah over Texas and Oklahoma? That is going beyond being a fan. That is delusional.

  • 46 & 2 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 20, 2019 3:39 p.m.

    Pluto:

    “And by the way, Utah finished 11th out of 12 of all Pac-12 schools in the recent Directors Cup.
    #Utah...3 Conference Championships in 8 years...Ouch!”

    Did you know that schools, including byU, will gain more points in something where they field more sports than what other schools have? Crazy, huh?

    And by the way, coug fans NEVER mentioned this “Directors Cup” prior to going independent. I guess when the two sports that drive the most revenue and popularity are terrible, you resort to something nobody cares about, or has ever heard of. How times have changed!

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 20, 2019 11:44 a.m.

    Cougalum - St. George, UT
    July 19, 2019 8:26 p.m.
    One liner: Let’s assume that the U had been “working hard” for an invitation to the PAC 12 for many years. If that is so (it has never been mentioned by the head coach or the AD) the fact remains that the PAC 12 during those same many years were not interested enough to grant an invitation. And yes the U was at the right place (geography close to the conference) and at the right time (when the conference needed to expand and their first two choices Texas and Oklahoma didn’t want to come). You loose all credibility if you maintain that the U was the PAC 12’s 1st or 2nd choices due to years of hard work to get in. Listen, I congratulated the U. Please don’t make me regret it by a ludicrous claim that the PAC 12 wanted the U all along even over the possibility of getting Texas and Oklahoma. LOL.
    _____

    Credibility is lost when someone does no research and makes assumptions.
    You do realize there is an article in the DN, that disproves your claims right?
    It was written when Utah was invited to the PAC.
    And if you take the time to do research. You would learn that the AD at the time did indeed say they were building up for an invite.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 20, 2019 10:50 a.m.

    Some Y fans are claiming that Jaren Hall is a great player? WhY is that? He has never taken ONE SNAP in college ball........what is going on? WOW?

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 19, 2019 8:26 p.m.

    One liner: Let’s assume that the U had been “working hard” for an invitation to the PAC 12 for many years. If that is so (it has never been mentioned by the head coach or the AD) the fact remains that the PAC 12 during those same many years were not interested enough to grant an invitation. And yes the U was at the right place (geography close to the conference) and at the right time (when the conference needed to expand and their first two choices Texas and Oklahoma didn’t want to come). You loose all credibility if you maintain that the U was the PAC 12’s 1st or 2nd choices due to years of hard work to get in. Listen, I congratulated the U. Please don’t make me regret it by a ludicrous claim that the PAC 12 wanted the U all along even over the possibility of getting Texas and Oklahoma. LOL.

  • Michigan Cougsfan68 Ann Arbor, MI
    July 19, 2019 6:27 p.m.

    Navel and,
    Yet again resorting to childish name-calling and bullying instead of answering direct, straightforward and on-topic questions. To answer your questions about the article. I think that the system will be great for both QB's! I think that JH is too good of an athlete to not get him on the field as much as possible! Now your turn!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 19, 2019 4:36 p.m.

    @ Naval-Frog-Philly-Hawaii (one in the same)

    So sorry you can't understand the alternative ways of raising money, such as through Donor Contributions, TV revenues (ESPN & BYU-TV), Nike, as well as ticket sales and concessions.

    You see, Naval, BYU does not need a Sugar Daddy, i.e unmerited Pac-12 TV money, to equal Utah in revenues, which they are doing. Just as we predicted would happen.

    Utah's football revenues come mostly from your Pac-12 TV money. Living off the coat-tails of others is hardly something to boast of.

    BYU operates in the black without Taxpayers money or Conference-Socialistic-Redistribution.

    BYU is debt free, they have every facility and project paid for, before construction even begins, and they must also have in place perpetual maintenance endowments for every building and facility on campus.

    Utah, on the other hand, is "In debt up to their Eyeballs", in a "frantic and emotionally vain attempt" to keep up with the actual Blue Blood/Legacy schools of the Pac-12.

    And by the way, Utah finished 11th out of 12 of all Pac-12 schools in the recent Directors Cup.
    #Utah...3 Conference Championships in 8 years...Ouch!

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 19, 2019 3:05 p.m.

    Cougalum,

    Utah worked for years to get into the PAC, it was no, no, no, no, no and all of a sudden the need arose and there Utah was, where they had been for years working on that.

    the inclusion of Utah was not because Texas and Oklahoma didn't jump, it's because a plan was already put in place quietly and Utah was pushing that resume for a long time.

    It wasn't about 2008 either.

    Holmoe is doing a good job if he's connecting with other schools and conferences. One day the need to expand will come along, and 2 decades ago BYU was almost in the BigXII except that they didn't have 2 BYUs, it was BYU and TCU and TCU wasn't appealing enough. As fate would have it TCU would later be in a P5 when BYU then wasn't enough.

    Some of it is luck, some is the right connections. I hope Holmoe is doing his main job.

    As for our schedule, BYU had an ugly bowl record under Lavell, we wanted the big teams and had some huge shockers and played well, but the win percentage on P5s wasn't that good. Today, the win percentage still isn't that good.

    I'd hope that the team could show up and win more games, and that Holmoe could chat with Dr. Hill about being in the proper place at the right time.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 19, 2019 2:47 p.m.

    one liner:

    I understand that you're deeply hurt by my post refuting ybU-p's relevance in Hawai'i, but the REAL problem here is that it isn't that my comments aren't relevant. It's that (1) they actually ARE, and (2) they prove YOURS to be NOT! For example, when you claimed that the Hawai'i Bowl would be like a "home game" for the indy-WACers, it was "irrelevant" on account of the fact that it's not really. False claims are NOT relevant.

    On the other hand, when I rightly pointed out that your comment was bogus and self aggrandizing, it WAS relevant. It was "truthful" and "applicable" to the discussion. See how that works little bro?

    Probably not. After all, you ARE one of the "uneducated" fans mendenmidmajor was talking about.

    Still smarting over that "Oprah" comment, eh? Haha! You'll never live it down!

    Wrecked indy-WACer.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 19, 2019 1:11 p.m.

    "Desperation for relevance I guess."

    That explains your comments and participation on this thread.

    Could you perhaps not be so desperate to be relevant? Because you aren't relevant since you don't make relevant comments nor have you shown yourself capable of empathetic conversations. If you don't understand that, might I suggest Oprah.

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 19, 2019 1:00 p.m.

    OK, I concede that the U admission wasn’t a coup. Rather the PAC 12 wanted/needed to expand and since Texas and Oklahoma decided not to come ( being honest U fans will concede the PAC 12 would have taken Texas and/or Oklahoma over Utah or Colorado without question. Colorado saw that the Big 12 had serious problems and was tired of bullying by Texas. It wanted out of the Big 12. With one spot left there was simply no other viable candidate without inviting a school 2/3 the way across the country. Utah was in the right place at the right time. Certainly the U has proven itself to be a completely worthy addition. Every school in the conference takes Utah seriously. It also didn’t hurt that the U had recently beat Alabama convincingly on a neutral field ( I still enjoy seeing that game on the PAC 12 network.). So again, I congratulate Utah and hope things work out for BYU. We Cougars must admit though that loosing 3-4 of their first 4 games will not bode well for the season since Utah State and Boise, will be tough games and San Diego will not be a cakewalk. In short, with this year’s schedule (thank you Tom Holmoe) a winning season may not happen. That said, go Cougars.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 19, 2019 12:21 p.m.

    The Hawai'i Bowl is NOT a "home game" for the Yners. It is for Hawai'i -- when they play there -- but not for the indy-WACers. Those boasts about ybU-p fans filling up Aloha Stadium, or being UH's biggest rivals have already been long since been proven to be myths. I have no idea why the tdS' fans still feel compelled to try reinvigorating them.

    Desperation for relevance I guess.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 19, 2019 12:13 p.m.

    Michigan Cougsfan68:

    If you were to scroll down to my initial comment back on July 16th @ 10:56 a.m., you would find it entirely relevant to the article. If you were to scroll down to YOUR initial comment, back on July 16th @ 3:50 pm, you would find that yours was NOT. Typical hypocritical coug.

    So do you ever plan on commenting on the article? Or are you just going to continue obsessing over mine and U-H Alum’s posts?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 19, 2019 12:12 p.m.

    one liner:

    "I have no time for those who reply to people as you do."

    Not really little bro. It isn't the "time" you don't have. It's a "reasonable response". I'd just destroyed your 3:01 pm post so thoroughly, you couldn't think of anything to respond with. So you did your usual "tuck tail and run away" thing, but tried to "save face" by pretending to be "above it all".

    How embarrassing for you. Haha!

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 19, 2019 9:48 a.m.

    @ One Liner,

    I hear ya fine sir.......... sensible perspectives! Cheers!

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 19, 2019 9:35 a.m.

    Alum,

    Utah did indeed work hard to get into the PAC. There might have been some luck involved when some BigXII teams decided not to flip, but it was not luck that the PAC then turned to Utah. Utah got the invite that they'd worked on for a long time.

    The CFP looks out for a few blue blood P5 schools and in order to stay legitimate they allow others in. It was an attempt to pretend to have a playoff without a true playoff. In that scenario Utah can't be ignored provided that they win all or almost all of their games.

    BYU's chances would require back to back perfect seasons and still it's not a garuntee.

    I'm just tired of hearing about post season glory when we don't compete in the season.

    I'll be a loud advocate for change if BYU gets an NY6 after a 25 game win streak - but that's not even a remote possibility with the BYU of today. If rather see change to put the PAC in as an autobid.

    The team needs to find a way to compete, and the fans need to find a way to accept what the football team is today and to make goals accordingly.

    Hawaii, as you know, is a great destination for Christmas. I'll be there this year, home game for BYU, and we don't deserve more.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 19, 2019 9:12 a.m.

    Independence + bronco Mendenhall = unsustainable

    For him, he's right. He was a great coach and I'm glad he's somewhere else.

    He got a few star players to BYU and didn't do an effective job recruiting. Football declined heavily after the previous recruits left BYU.

    There is no natural place for Utah in a discussion about BYU and independence. Clearly the PAC invite was amazing for them, any BYU fan wishes it was us, but every smart BYU fan knows that Utah is a better fit.

    So let's not pretend that we gave up on the PAC invite and now we are sorry. BYU had been mulling over independence for years and the choice was to stay in the MWC or go independent. Talks with the Big East blew up because it didn't fit BYU (risky and on it's decline).

    Until something better comes along I like independence.

    All of this talk about deserving a better bowl game is stupid. Let's win more games!

    We're miles from the team that used to have one or two losses, bowl games once were a chance to ask for legitimate opponents on national TV, our season now starts out that way. If we learn to beat our P5 opponents with consistency, then we can start to gripe about deserving better bowl games.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 19, 2019 8:38 a.m.

    @ Cougalum,

    I agree with almost everything you stated. Except, the "great coup" claim, that is a TOTAL fictitious fallacy. Utah worked for decades to become "PAC eligible."

    Please state facts, sir.

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 19, 2019 12:58 a.m.

    Let’s all be honest, Coach Mendenhall gave an accurate and candid statement when he said that independence was unsustainable on a long term basis. Several in the administration have conceded that. BYU is not a P5 school even if the CPF gives P5 schools P5 credit for playing BYU. BYU will not be playing in the national championship game. We will not become a CFP team as an independent. We will never develop into the tradition of Notre Dame. No undefeated independent BYU will ever be selected for a playoff berth as long as there is a P5 conference champion with 2 and perhaps 3 losses. There is no BYU player or coach or AD who doesn’t know that after a loss or two in September that BYU is out of the running for any New Years Day bowl game. Taking this coming year for example, there is no BYU player or coach or AD who doesn’t strongly expect to have 2 or 3 losses before October 1. This constant pie in the sky nonsense will not change any of this. Let’s be honest Utah’s selection into the PAC 12 was a great coup and they have completed very well. If we are honest, all BYU supporters would be elated for entry into the PAC 12. Hats off to Utah and let’s hope BYU’s prospects improve.

  • Michigan Cougsfan68 Ann Arbor, MI
    July 18, 2019 6:19 p.m.

    Navel Vet,
    Yes, I asked you two straight forward questions about the topic of the article and I am waiting for straight and on topic answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What are your thoughts on the system that Coaches Grimes, and Roderick are developing for Zack Wilson and Jaren Hall? And secondly how many plays a game will Hall get to play this season?

  • 46 & 2 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2019 5:28 p.m.

    one dollar:

    “I think these people know that I don't have inside information on finances as I've stated such.

    that's my full reply to you.”

    So in other words, everything you put was just made up? No worries, we already knew that! If you’ll excuse me, I’m going to tune into the amazing programming on byuTV. If can find it. I think it’s channel nine thousand something...in SD.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 18, 2019 3:43 p.m.

    Naval,

    I'm talking with adults that I respect and they respect me and we have adult conversations which include logic and understanding. I don't care to waste my time on people who seem incapable of any conversation in which ideas are exchanged. I have no time for those who reply to people as you do.

    I think these people know that I don't have inside information on finances as I've stated such.

    that's my full reply to you.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 18, 2019 3:29 p.m.

    one liner:

    “The story is that sports needs to pay for itself at BYU, if it didn't that would be a big story that would already be broken.”

    Really? By whom? The indy-WACers refuse to open their books to public scrutiny. So despite evidence of the major contradictions between what they (and Holmoe) “claim”, who will ybU-p open their books to, in order to break that story? We’re talking about $37 million here! Nearly 47% of your program’s ENTIRE athletic revenue! You’re not gonna find $37 million in “replays” when the original broadcast was worth only – per ESPN -- $4 million. And since $37M > $4M, if Al-JazoobieTV can get $37M from RE-broadcasts, they should dump ESPN altogether.

    “What about the other sports?”

    What other sports? We’d already listed Basketball ($8.3M), Football ($28.2M), and “Other” ($6.0M). So what “other” sports were you talking about. Is there ANOTHER “other” we’d missed? And how would that amount to $37M? Remember that Football was only $28.2, and the rest COMBINED totalled $14.2M. So what other “other sports” could the indy-WACers field that’s worth over 31% than your football program?

    So where is that $37M coming from

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 18, 2019 3:01 p.m.

    To be fair about the revenues, I expected BYU to be just shy of $70M, usually it's in the high $60s. This reported revenue of nearly $80M might not turn out to be an annual thing, it probably won't be. Perhaps it involved bringing in some money for the stadium work.

    BYUtv is a much more interesting deal than people give it credit for. What's the cost to re-run an old men's volleyball program at 3am? there are ads, they generate money, it's a smart way to get into the homes of 50M Americans.

    Sports camps bring in $4.5M each year, which is pretty crazy.

    Utah is in a far better financial position than BYU because they have some guarantees that BYU doesn't. But BYU isn't in competition against Utah, they in financial competition. Whatever happened last year, i hope it's stable, but I'd honestly be surprised if the reported number was around $80M again.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 18, 2019 2:26 p.m.

    I'm not pretending to have some insight on the finances of the sports program at BYU anymore than what the rest of you have.

    That being said, there are tools at the hands of BYU that others don't have. BYUtv is a far cry from ESPN and the games they televise are the ugly ones - but there are a lot of games on BYUtv and advertisements for those games, which once they have been played cost the university nothing to reply on their own network. Clearly BYU earns way more per football game on ESPN than BYUtv, but what about the replays? What about the other sports? Certainly not huge income earning items, but they have a steady stream of them on. It's not logical to think that they haven't found a way to capitalize on this unique benefit.

    On the topic of tithing, I side with you Utes, I don't want my tithing money going to football. The story is that sports needs to pay for itself at BYU, if it didn't that would be a big story that would already be broken.

    As for the rest of the comments - I don't know. I'm not anything special in this category, but perhaps I'm more open-minded to the assumption that it's likely accurate as being deliberately inaccurate would be a huge risk.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2019 1:34 p.m.

    "not knowing how much is subsidized."
    Reported numbers are quite mysterious given what we know publicly.
    CFP pays a base amount to Division 1 teams. About 4.5 million to each PAC12 team.
    BYU receives 309 thousand (not million).
    Television is 30 million+ for each PAC member vs 5 million from ESPN for BYU.
    Yet somehow, the final numbers are "close". Interedasting.

    "Do you think that it's impossible for those number to be accurate?"
    Not impossible, but it raises questions.
    * why do booster club members subsidize coaches pay?
    If you have $80, pay the coaches. Get Andy Reid.
    * where does the extra money come from? Does BYU know something secret?
    BYU could sell their "BYU Moneyball" lectures to struggling universities.
    * why is 5 million from ESPN "vital" to BYU independence?
    If you're bringing in $80, losing $2 to drop back to the MWC is not losing much.
    At least then you'd have potential better bowl access.

    "If I owned a TV network I'd find extra revenue as well."
    When BYU went indy, I thought all games would be on BYU-TV. Utilize the worldwide network, right? Bring in sports revenue. Apparently BYU-TV can't match the ESPN income.

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2019 1:08 p.m.

    "it's been made clear that the church doesn't subsidize football or sports."
    "If I owned a TV network I'd find extra revenue as well."

    one cooger:

    Really? Then please then explain where BYUtv gets the millions it pays every year to the Athletic Department for broadcast fees? Doesn't that come from the sponsoring institution? Are those sums included in the nebulous "unassigned" athletic income BYU-P has reported? If not, where does that $37.2M actually come from?

    Until we see verifiable answers, NOTHING is clear. I don't want my church donations being filtered to pay Greg Wrubell's salary any more than Pluto wants his taxes paying Coach K's salary.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 18, 2019 1:08 p.m.

    one liner:

    Haha! You're still seething over the humiliation I'd earlier heaped upon you by exposing you as an "Oprah Winfrey" devotee! Looks like that's one you'll never be able to live down.

    Wrecked indy-WACer.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 18, 2019 1:03 p.m.

    @ One Liner,

    With respect, I disagree. I want you to research what LDS Inc. does at BYU. EVERYTHING is highly subsidized there. Just one morsel to toss at you kind sir..........tuition expenses that are deducted from the athletic dept. budget alone. Now, who pays for that? Why is tuition so cheap at BYu if you are LDS? I can go on and on and on. I know quite a bit about what happens there in fact.

    I think most everyone would be astonished if the actual financial books were opened up.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 18, 2019 12:34 p.m.

    Alum,

    Good point about not knowing how much is subsidized.

    You leave an interesting implication that out of those numbers a massive amount is subsidized or sort of financially made up.

    Nobody pumps money into something purely for show if it's a long term venture. In any organization (business, family, personal, ect.) the new levels become the new levels of normal. So if the Church gave millions to BYU to simply look like independence wasn't all that bad, then the internal sports financial appetite would be increased and once it's up it never goes down.

    Beyond that, it's been made clear that the church doesn't subsidize football or sports. Obviously the university gets money, but sports needs to be self-sustaining or it's unfair to Naval's Oprah watching wife or Azute's mom to use their tithing to support BYU football.

    If what you suggest were the case it would be stupid and would be the beginning of the end of BYU football, but it's also illogical.

    Do you think that it's impossible for those number to be accurate?

    If I owned a TV network I'd find extra revenue as well. There are some unique revenue streams at BYU, isn't it possible that they are profitable?

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 18, 2019 12:25 p.m.

    Metaphorically speaking, all things BYu is the ingredients of their fave food..........the "Cougar Tail."

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 18, 2019 11:46 a.m.

    @ Naval Vet,

    There is NO WAY of knowing what BYu actually takes in or has to spend because their owners subsidize so much of YBu-Provo sports and the school. What we do know........ tv ratings, butts in the seats, licensed merchandise sales and a few other factors that always differ from the claims they make.

    I know this.......they don't sell or they would be in a far better position. I truly don't see Y football lasting very much longer.

  • Lester L. Wester Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2019 11:20 a.m.

    One Liner: "...Utah ranks higher than BYU on government funded research because that's a major source of the state sponsored endowments that come to most state schools, whereas BYU is a private university and so funding isn't tagged as research."

    You'd better stick to sports. Utah's research money is not from "state sponsored endowments." It primarily comes to the Health Sciences, i.e. M.D.'s, Pharmacy, Nursing and PHD's in biomedical sciences to name a few. The money comes primarily from Corporations (such as big pharma) and Foundations, and Federal grants such as NIH and National Science Foundation. BYU-P has none of those graduate health science programs and therefore aren't eligible out of the gate for inclusion.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 18, 2019 11:05 a.m.

    Meckofahess:

    "Now if BYU is such a disrespected and lowly 'patsy' that can't beat any 'P5' teams and such, why are all these 'Naval Vet' types even concerned about it?"

    What are you talking about teeny-tiny little bro? Who's "concerned" about the indy-WACers? Not me. I think you're supremely WACish and midmajory. Not the Pac-12, Big 12, BigTen, ACC, SEC, MWC, or AAC. They think you don't add value. Not the national media. Nobody has you ranked in ANY preseason poll, you've never even APPEARED in one single CFP poll, and most importantly, you hadn't FINISHED ranked in the final AP poll in a decade. I'm not even confident that UMass is "concerned" about you guys. Project much?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 18, 2019 11:03 a.m.

    I thought that the $80M figure being thrown around by our indy-WACey little brothers sounded a little high, so I did the "Ute" thing and researched it for validity. Here's what I'd found.

    Revenues: $79.6 million

    Basketball: $8,253,083
    Football: $28,209,221
    Other: $5,964,818

    Total: $42,427,122

    And then there's this line item called "Not Allocated by Gender/Sport" that comes in at $37,217,979. What IS that? It can't be collegiate merchandise sales, since everybody knows that "Ute" gear flies off the shelves a lot faster and more frequently than the indy-WACers'. Whatever it is, it's the single largest line item -- accounting for nearly 47% of total cougar athletic revenue. By way of comparison, football only accounts for just over 35%. Is Holmoe cooking the books here to make it look it better?

    Utah's revenues ($82.5M) look more in line with expectations:

    Basketball: $10,039,567
    Football: $55,835,312
    Other: $2,494,412

    Total: $68,369,291

    And our "Not Allocated by Gender/Sport" revenues came in at $14,098,327, or merely 17% of our athletic revenue. Sounds like licensed merchandise and concessions to me.

    Maybe Y fans ate $37 million worth of cougartails?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 18, 2019 10:22 a.m.

    Michigan Cougsfan68:

    "How frantic and emotional of you to resort to name-calling and bullying instead of sticking to the actual topic of the article."

    I'm pretty sure that I wasn't mentioned in the article, yet the ONLY comment YOU'VE made here...

    ...was about ME!

    And YOU'RE accusing ME of going "off topic"?

    Typical hypocritical coug. At least I DID make a comment that was germane to the article. And for the record, the remainder of my comments were remarks that were germane to the posts of your indy-WACey brethren, so if they went "off topic", it's because THEY'RE the ones who steered it so. Yet the only person here you're calling out is me. Typical hypocritical coug.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 18, 2019 10:13 a.m.

    Oh my goodness folks.........Bluto and Blue n White must not be with us on planet earth......?

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 18, 2019 10:09 a.m.

    @The-John

    No, BYU is considered P-5 by every P-5 league for scheduling purposes.
    Army is with some of the P-5's, not all.

    Also, BYU generates more money than does many of the existing P-5's.
    And even rivals Utah in money.
    -BYU 80 million
    -Utah 82 million

    The difference between BYU and Utah, is that all of BYU's facilities are paid for with perpetual maintenance endowments already in place and they operate in the black, Utah is Red all over..
    Utah is in debt up their eyeballs needing the handouts of the Pac-12 and Utah taxpayers.

    The other schools you mentioned? ...NOt even close.

    Facts are stubborn things....

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2019 9:51 a.m.

    "BYU is already a "P-5" equivalent school."

    Pluto:

    So are Army, Navy, Air Force, Fresno State, Cincinnati, and UConn. Yippee!

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    July 18, 2019 9:35 a.m.

    @blue & white - , 00

    "Looking forward to this August when the Y beats the U. "
    ----------------------
    I love these emotional outbursts. The fact is it's very unlikely that BYU beats Utah but it's certainly not impossible.

    As stated, these games are often close. Even closer than they should be typically. It actually should be a good game.

    BYU has 2 RBs who have never played in the system. A QB who is coming back from a shoulder surgery and didn't participate in spring ball. BYU loses their 2 best defensive players, on a returning football team who went 6-6 in regulation last season last yr.

    But the part I love is that you use "viewership smack".

    Just last yr. Utah and BYU both played UW early in the season. In fact, BYU and UW were top 20 when they played. Utah v. UW had 300,000 more viewers than BYU v. UW.

    You say Utah's viewership stats are because fans are watching the other team? Why didn't more UW's fans tune in to the BYU v. UW game then? And where were the ADDITIONAL BYU fans?

    Shouldn't BYU v. UW have had "many times more" than Utah v. UW?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 18, 2019 9:34 a.m.

    The move to independence is certainly controversial and the ongoing opinion in articles published are rarely if ever uplifting.

    Don't recall anything ever written expressing regret over the Utes inclusion nor 2nd thoughts about byu's ongoing exclusion.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 18, 2019 9:33 a.m.

    Arizona,

    Last year BYU pulled in $80m. That's massive for any non-P5. Utah got $82m and while I'll take stability over a good year, BYU is in a good financial place.

    Joining any G5 means you take the good with the bad, including scheduling. Lots of good teams but travel would be beyond brutal when you consider all sports involved.

    Biggest unresolvable issue are time zones. That's a mess the can't be fixed.

    Just couldn't work out.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    July 18, 2019 9:10 a.m.

    @Riverton Cougar - Riverton, UT

    "I think it's obvious the AAC has been in talks with BYU, probably with ESPN as well and they discussed things. BYU decided that continuing independence was better than joining the AAC (right decision, in my opinion), and so the AAC made this announcement."
    ---------------------

    Speculating that they have met is a bit of a stretch, but I do think it's clear that BYU doesn't have a lot, if any interest in joining the AAC.

    There is a good chance BYU would make more $$ being in the AAC though. The new $7mm per team from media is already more than BYU has made in any yr. as an independent from media.

    Add to that the $$ games BYU could have v. P5 teams that are already scheduled and BYU could add to that already bigger number.

    Financially, the AAC could be the best arrangement. But it doesn't mean it's a great fit. Travel would be brutal.

  • blue & white , 00
    July 17, 2019 10:41 p.m.

    Looking forward to this August when the Y beats the U. Almost every year the Y plays the U close. The Utahers talk like they win by 30 each time. They have illusions of grandeur. After the Y beats U I hope the U goes on to play in the conference championship which will be again the lowest attended in person and on TV for a conference P5 championship game. And the 2-6 PAC presidents will be wondering why did we invite the U. Certainly the Y in a P5 championship game will draw many times more fans with higher TV ratings. Oh yes the U sayers will quote TV ratings and how they are higher but the viewers are not tuning in to see U but only the other team. The Y will surprise teams this year by beating the favorite. Go Cougs!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 17, 2019 7:43 p.m.

    The headline should read:
    "BYU has no desire to seek, nor any desire to accept, approval for membership in the AAC.

    BYU is already a "P-5" equivalent school.
    The whole definition of a P-5 school is based solely on TV contracts.

    BYU, as I predicted, is generating P-5 money with it's own donors, name and brand.
    Not by riding others coat-tails (see Utah)..
    BYU also does not carry any debt...again see (Utah).

    See Silicon slopes (boosters), ESPN, Nike, National Fan Base, BYUTV revenues and Brand.

    BYU athletics last yea,r had revenues of 80 million dollars. Utah had 82 million.

    Yes, Conference Championships would be nice, but to trade BYU's future schedules for AAC competition?
    Really...No thank you!

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2019 4:56 p.m.

    What a joke it is to read most of these posts. Now if BYU is such a disrespected and lowly "patsy" that can't beat any "P5" teams and such, why are all these "Naval Vet" types even concerned about it?

    But we know the real reasons don't we Cougar fans? Now I always say a team should do it's talking on the field and I believe BYU will do just that this year!

    I can tell you this, should the Cougs beat Utah (and I believe they will) the Ute fans will feel they're season is flawed no matter how well they subsequently play in the PAC-12. They'll have a difficult time getting that "bad taste" out of their mouths and it very well may affect how Utah plays in the once mighty "conference of champions". Here's to looking forward the BYU-Utah game in Provo where the sparks will fly and only one team will come away a winner.

    Go Cougars!!!!!

  • lightdee Highland, UT
    July 17, 2019 3:34 p.m.

    AAC? So what - BYU is so much better off staying indepedent and going for the ESPN contract again. I can watch BYU football almost every Saturday during the football season on a major cable network. What other college team can say that? BYU football is much better off playing 6 or 7 good teams who want to be on ESPN than playing in a mid-major conference and only getting 2-3 quality opponents per season. If you're not part of one of the 5 major conferences, stay independent!

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 17, 2019 3:14 p.m.

    "It's not about religion but rather academic qualifications. BYU-P is primarily an undergraduate program with minimal small-time research."

    There are a lot of ways to rank schools, Utah ranks higher than BYU on government funded research because that's a major source of the state sponsored endowments that come to most state schools, whereas BYU is a private university and so funding isn't tagged as research.

    Academic excellence is part of the consideration for a conference - I suspect that's one of the many reasons why Boise can't join - but if you look at all of the qualities in which BYU excels don't be foolish enough to think that anybody would pass BYU up based on academics.

    88% of student admitted to both schools choose BYU.

  • Lester L. Wester Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2019 2:29 p.m.

    kfbob: "If not for these issues they would have left for the PAC 12 or Big 12 years ago."

    Sorry, you just don't leave for a big time conference. One must be invited and BYU-P doesn't qualify for the PAC-12 membership. It's not about religion but rather academic qualifications. BYU-P is primarily an undergraduate program with minimal small-time research. No way they now, or ever, will meet these criterium. And that academic freedom criticism doesn't help either.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 17, 2019 2:01 p.m.

    one liner,
    The only thing left unproven is that we can beat you good enough to keep from falling in the rankings. It's proven that you have already claimed another moral victory.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2019 2:01 p.m.

    Two*Star:

    "The Utes have never accomplished anything of note in major college football."

    Really? Then why did you state -- in that very same post no less -- that we'd (1) beaten a Top-10 SEC team in (2) A BCS bowl, and (3) winning a P5 division? That's you contradicting yourself THREE times in a single post. Fail.

    [FWIW, Utah actually had TWO 1st-place finishes in the Pac-12 South. Just sayin'...]

    "Utah has lost to every ranked bowl opponent the Utes have played since joining the PAC 12..."

    Or, put another way, Utah had lost to only ONE ranked bowl opponent since joining the Pac-12. When you have to use "spin", you're admitting you haven't anything of substance. How miserable for you.

    [FWIW, I could just as easily state that the indy-WACers had lost to every ranked bowl opponent since leaving the MWC. On the flip side, it could NOT be stated that the indy-WACers had lost to only ONE ranked bowl opponent since leaving the MWC. The general rule is, if you're gonna talk trash about another team having not accomplished something, you had to have accomplished it yourself. Otherwise, you're a hypocrite.]

    Midmajors forever.

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2019 1:34 p.m.

    "The Utes have never accomplished anything of note in major college football."

    lone*some:

    Hahaha!!

    Says a coog true-believer who is reduced to thinking Provo Airport celebrations are better than being the first to bust the BCS--not once, but twice. When was the last time BYU-P played in a top-tier bowl game? Or was invited to a P5? Or was CFP ranked?

    Oh . . . wait!

    Hahaha!!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2019 1:24 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar:

    "Let's see that again....'for ANY league to put up with'.....'You're not [deemed worth it]. By ANYONE.'....Hmmm.....You have a very strange way of trying to prove that you don't think as little of BYU as you appear to."

    That was a disingenuous parsing of my words. When "Rick for Truth" asked, "Why do these institutions dislike BYU?", he was ONLY talking about the Pac-12 and the Big 12. So that quote you'd cited was specifically about THOSE teams.

    Furthermore, the only other leagues mentioned in that particular post were the AAC and the MWC. And while I wasn't talking about them in the quote you'd cited, I would have had "Rick for Truth" brought them into the discussion. So since you're either confused, or disingenuous, late me state again -- for the record -- which leagues would NEVER consider inviting you:

    1. Pac-12
    2. MWC
    3. Big 12
    4. BigTen
    5. AAC
    6. ACC
    7. SEC
    8. C-USA -- so long as they have 12 or more members. But should they dip down to 11 or fewer (due to current member institutions either dropping football, or being poached by another league), you'll be back on deck for consideration

    I can't say it any plainer than that.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 17, 2019 12:40 p.m.

    loved the comment by meckofahess

    Anxious to see the game -gonna be interesting with so many things unproven in a historically tight game.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    July 17, 2019 12:39 p.m.

    uteBwaHaHa

    "I belly-laugh at the U-SLC fan comebacks = ultimate desperation."

    The Utes have never accomplished anything of note in major college football.

    Utah's big claim to fame came as a mid-major beating an Alabama team that was completely disinterested in playing the mid-major Utes in an also ran bowl.

    The only thing the Utes have accomplished since joining the PAC 12 is winning the absolutely worst PAC 12 South division in history.

    ASU (7-6) was the ONLY South division team that finished with a winning record, just barely, and overall, Utah's South division opponents finished 25-36, ELEVEN games below .500.

    Utah has lost to every ranked bowl opponent the Utes have played since joining the PAC 12, and in their best season, were swept by the top two PAC 12 North teams, 0-3.

    Go sew another PAC 12 patch on something, it's the only thing you've got to beat your chest about.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 17, 2019 12:27 p.m.

    Nailed it LOL

    "If you cannot see this, it makes me think YOU'RE the bigot here! You those NOT of your faith!" I would have gone with overly sensitive or paranoid, but that's just me.

    Here's my take on these things. First of all, I'm not sure that it's [religion] been the deciding factor. It's loud news, but maybe not the actual factor in decisions.

    there are two aspects of religion, there is religious bigotry, and then there is cultural disagreements from the by-products of the religion. Nobody is dumb enough to admit to that first category, if they do then they are a bigot.

    On a side note, to help a friend, we ought to include definitions of things like "bigot" in case some think that you can take any insult and turn it around to the other person. I'm emailing Oprah and asking her to do a segment on this after I finish my comment.

    The link between BYU and the church formerly known as the LDS church is clear and there is a church culture. I'm not at all offended if I'm not a cultural fit for something due to my religious choice. I'm confident in myself, if people don't like the no Sunday play then that's just that. I'ts a mutual respectful disagreement. respectfully.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2019 12:16 p.m.

    Riverton Cougar"

    "Do people really think no discussions happen between schools/conferences before official invites? Since the PAC never sent an official invite to Texas and all those Big 12 schools,"

    Fail. The Pac-10 DID officially invite Texas! Colorado too. The other Big 12 teams never got one, but that was because the Pac-10 didn't really care all that much about THEM. It was "Texas" who they'd wanted. Without the Longhorns, there wouldn't have been any point in inviting the others.

    Look little bro -- I GET that you're deeply hurt that the AAC had NOT set their sights on you, thus further validating the Big 12's position that you're a school who does not add value, But how does just making stuff up help you? You're not fooling anyone. The AAC doesn't want you, and we all KNOW it! "Indy-irrelevance" is the bed you'd made, so lie in it.

    Midmajors forever.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    July 17, 2019 12:16 p.m.

    Naval Vet at 11:56 am:

    "Straw man! I never said that. You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you. I've been on record MANY times saying that C-USA* and the MAC would. Just because neither the Pac-12, Big 12, BigTen, ACC, SEC, MWC, or the AAC wouldn't that doesn't mean NOBODY would!"

    Naval Vet at 11:43 am:

    "It's because they're too WACish and midmajory for any league to put up with all their high maintenance demands. Texas does it too, but at least THEY have the clout to pull it off. The rest of the Big 12 hates them for it (it was the #1 reason for Nebraska's exit, and ranked high up on CU's, A&M's and Mizzou's as well), but at least they're deemed 'worth it'. You're not. By anyone. Including the MWC and the AAC. If you cannot see this, it makes me think YOU'RE the bigot here!"

    Let's see that again....
    "for ANY league to put up with"
    "You're not [deemed worth it]. By ANYONE."

    Hmmm.....

    You have a very strange way of trying to prove that you don't think as little of BYU as you appear to.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    July 17, 2019 12:01 p.m.

    Do people really think no discussions happen between schools/conferences before official invites? Since the PAC never sent an official invite to Texas and all those Big 12 schools, does that mean that any rumor of talks between them were false? And are all those discussions put on the internet for all to see? Of course not!

    It's much more reasonable to think that a conference wouldn't extend an official invite until they were sure the school would accept it (in other words, both the school and conference are aware it is coming) than it is to think of conference expansion as a group of kids at a lunch table discussing among themselves whether to invite the kid sitting all by himself to join them.

    Then again, "reasonable" is definitely not a word an objective observer would use to describe many of the Ute "fans" here.

    ---

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum,

    Yes, being ignored is the big sign of being irrelevant and unimportant. You, Naval Vet, and the other BYU haters certainly do not ignore BYU and prove their relevance on a daily basis.

    If you want to prove that you have gotten over BYU and that BYU is irrelevant, then by all means ignore BYU.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2019 11:56 a.m.

    Riverton Cougar:

    "In [Naval Vet's] world, BYU is the most pathetic program in the world and nobody will touch them with a 10-foot pole. Some day [sic] the delusions will wear off and I for one hope he has a support system to get him through those rough times."

    Straw man! I never said that. You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you. I've been on record MANY times saying that C-USA* and the MAC would. Just because neither the Pac-12, Big 12, BigTen, ACC, SEC, MWC, or the AAC wouldn't that doesn't mean NOBODY would!

    * I actually said that about C-USA up until UAB returned to the league. C-USA is now a 14-team conference, which in my opinion is 2 teams too many for such a "midmajory" league. And in light of that, I don't think they'd touch you anymore. There's too many members as is, and you all wouldn't add value. But I still the MAC might consider you! #MoralVictory

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2019 11:49 a.m.

    To Naval Vet and all the other Ute fans who inhabit this forum like it's their 2nd home. Yes, Utah is a mighty and highly vaunted program, a key member of the "Conference of Champions". Utah is receiving a lot of rightfully earned praise for the anticipated upcoming exploits being projected for them (PAC-12 Conference Champions, Rose Bowl bid, top 10 rankings and all). You can take it all to the bank baby!

    Now poor BYU sits down there in Provo on the "Gilligan's Island" where they are hopelessly stranded forever. Nobody wants poor BYU in their stuffy conferences apparently?? - tears :(

    Now here's my prediction: BYU will live in "great fear" of the Utes for that opening game. They will simply shudder and flop on their bellies to those boys from Salt Lake. The Ute fans will then fall all over themselves voraciously celebrating their 9th win in a row.

    So be ready BYU fans, our boys are in for another lickin at the hands of the mighty Utes for sure - and you can take that to the Provo "piggy bank"!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2019 11:43 a.m.

    Rick:

    "...Iowa State targeted the Big 12 conference commissioner not to allow BYU in due to the perceived anti LBGTQ stance..."

    Iowa State University doesn't call the shots in the Big 12. The shot callers in that league are Commissioner Bob Bowlsby, Texas President Greg Fenves, Texas A.D. Chris Del Conte, and Oklahoma A.D. Joe Castiglione. The rest of the league if full of powerless bobbleheads who just have to go along with whatever the power brokers decide.

    "Stanford, USC have targeted BYU as well, not hard to find stories on line."

    And yet you couldn't identify even ONE? That's because it didn't happen. Fail.

    "Why do these institutions dislike BYU..."

    It's because they're too WACish and midmajory for any league to put up with all their high maintenance demands. Texas does it too, but at least THEY have the clout to pull it off. The rest of the Big 12 hates them for it (it was the #1 reason for Nebraska's exit, and ranked high up on CU's, A&M's and Mizzou's as well), but at least they're deemed "worth it". You're not. By anyone. Including the MWC and the AAC. If you cannot see this, it makes me think YOU'RE the bigot here! You those NOT of your faith!

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 17, 2019 11:19 a.m.

    Rick,

    He's going to come back and ask you to provide direct evidence of these schools saying "we disagree with BYU's religious tenants, that makes us discriminatory bigots, so that's why we don't like them".

    And for obvious reasons, nobody is dumb enough to say that.

    That being said, why didn't the AAC ask BYU to join, because I don't think BYU wants to join the AAC. I don't see this as religious, but rather just not a good fit.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 17, 2019 10:56 a.m.

    Sooner,

    I agree that the system is rigged towards P5 programs.

    It's not rigged, it's built for them.

    The guys running the system are the SEC, Big10 and the ACC. They see guys like UCF as ankle biters and don't want to give them a chance because they just might pull off a Utah 2008 feat.

    So in terms of position Utah and BYU aren't even in the same league to compare who could get an invite. I'll never argue that the system is fair. My only argument is that given that BYU is screwed, I personally think we are a tad less screwed as an indy rather than a G5.

    I'll be at the bowl game in Hawaii, that's basically a home game even when BYU plays Hawaii, with an unknown opponent they were wise to book BYU.

    We're not even remotely in position to be arguing about deserving something better right now. It would take BYU 2 years to make noise, they are unlike ND who can make noise any season but could make more noise after 2 years than any G 5 could.

    I'll complain about the bowl games when that's a relevant complaint. In the mean time we get to see some great teams coming up, and I look forward to that.

  • Rick for Truth Provo, UT
    July 17, 2019 10:52 a.m.

    Naval Vet.

    The university of Iowa State targeted the Big 12 conference commissioner not to allow BYU in due to the perceived anti LBGTQ stance two years ago. Just google it, not hard to read multiple stories. Stanford, USC have targeted BYU as well, not hard to find stories on line. Why do these institutions dislike BYU, well it’s easy to see, they feel our religious beliefs are offensive to their own values. If you cannot see this, it makes me think you are also anti BYU for similar reasons.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    July 17, 2019 10:47 a.m.

    "Using logic with [Naval Vet] is like playing basketball against a guy who's missing 1 1/2 arms."

    ^^^

    I don't know if I could have said it better myself. In his world, BYU is the most pathetic program in the world and nobody will touch them with a 10-foot pole. Some day the delusions will wear off and I for one hope he has a support system to get him through those rough times.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2019 10:19 a.m.

    wallyball:

    “I believe that Byu getting into a conference has more to do with religious and social reasons than the overall quality if the athletic program…..Most informed national experts agree with that.”

    That sounded made up. Who? Who amongst the “national experts” have said that? I’ve never heard anyone outside of the indy-WACers’ own sour-grapes bubble say that. You’re gonna need to back that one up. I’m going to need to see:

    (1)The “name” of the “expert(s)” who’d said that.
    (2)The “exact quotes” validating that
    (3)The “title”, “author”, and “publication” wherein said quotes had appeared

    If you fail to do so, then…

    …BUSTED!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2019 10:09 a.m.

    wallyball:

    “I believe that Byu getting into a conference has more to do with religious and social reasons than the overall quality if the athletic program…..Most informed national experts agree with that.”

    That sounded made up. Who? Who amongst the “national experts” have said that? I've never heard anyone outside of the indy-WACers’ own sour-grapes bubble say that. You’re gonna need to back that one up. I’m going to need to see:

    (1)The “name” of the “expert(s)” who’d said that.
    (2)The “exact quotes” validating that
    (3)The “title”, “author”, and “publication” wherein said quotes had appeared

    If you fail to do so, then…

    …BUSTED!

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2019 10:01 a.m.

    one liner "I respect your point of view. We're talking about 2 things that just aren't going to happen."

    I respect where you are coming from... how it should be. Reality says "the system is rigged towards P5". Last year, 4 loss Utah was ranked #17. That would have NEVER happened for a 4 loss MWC Utah team. In 2016, 4 loss Utah was ranked #19, while 4 loss BYU wasn't ranked at all. That gives an apple-to-apples clue about how the committee views BYU.

    "They" will look for any excuse to say no to BYU, even to a NY6 bid, because... money. Best to sit back, relax, enjoy the season, and enjoy the Hawaii Bowl, because that's all there is.

  • Thin Blue Line ,
    July 17, 2019 9:50 a.m.

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    July 17, 2019 9:04 a.m.

    "Okay then, who will ever give BYu the time of day these days? "

    You...every single day multiple times...like stalking almost...weird

  • Thin Blue Line ,
    July 17, 2019 9:48 a.m.

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    July 17, 2019 9:09 a.m.

    "Say whatever U care to, as it really doesn't hold any credence with ANYONE. We Utes are lov'n life these days in the PAC.......what an honor it is to be in the finest college conference in the world by far. Don't you wish U could say the same thing??????? Of course U do!!!! Good luck pards!"

    If you love your back yard so much and think it is so grand...why do you spend much of your time in your neighbors yard?

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    July 17, 2019 9:45 a.m.

    utebwahaha

    "Say whatever U care to, as it really doesn't hold any credence with ANYONE. We Utes are lov'n life these days in the PAC..."

    "lov" whatever suits your fancy, but that still doesn't change the fact that Utah has never and will never achieve anything of significance in major college football on a national scale.

    You only think you're a player, but the truth is, U never have been and U never will be a contender for a consensus national football championship.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    July 17, 2019 9:44 a.m.

    @ArizonaUte

    I think it's obvious the AAC has been in talks with BYU, probably with ESPN as well and they discussed things. BYU decided that continuing independence was better than joining the AAC (right decision, in my opinion), and so the AAC made this announcement.

    Now I could see how it might be taken as "AAC doesn't want BYU!!!!" if they announced this shortly after UConn announced their decision, but they didn't.

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum

    Maybe if you click your ruby slippers together while you say it, your wishes might come true!

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    July 17, 2019 9:19 a.m.

    @Riverton Cougar - Riverton, UT

    "Ute fans are ridiculous! They honestly think this means they wouldn't add BYU if BYU expressed interest? Either they're trying to get BYU fans riled up, or they're embarrassingly ignorant.

    The AAC didn't invite Notre Dame either, does that mean they don't want Notre Dame? Give me a break."
    -----------------

    While I don't agree that Ute fans are ridiculous, at least not any more so than BYU fans, I do agree that if BYU wanted to join the AAC, the AAC would take them.

    But you do also have to remember the article itself, sort of set up the notion that the AAC is set and "what does that mean for BYU"? Read the headline and think about it for a second.

    It's not just Ute fans going crazy. It's the entire premise of the article. At least the headline.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    July 17, 2019 8:48 a.m.

    @Tomahawk Red - Miami Beach, FL

    "I agree with your assessment, although I'd argue UCF and byu have the same access."
    -----------------------

    I agree, regarding the CFP it'self. But Clearly they have more access to NY6 bowls that are meaningful post season bowls too.

    There is no guarantee that if BYU goes undefeated, even twice in a row, that they get a NY6 bowl. It would very much depend on the yr.

    The highest ranked G5 conf. champ. has an auto bid to a NY6 bowl.

    Meaning, If UCF was the only ranked G5 and were ranked #25. And BYU was ranked #15. UCF gets a NY6 bowl and BYU goes to whatever bowl they are associated with that yr. Hawaii, Vegas, etc.

    It's just how it's set up. ND has a completely different arrangement than any other independent. They are NOT a good comparison.

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    July 17, 2019 8:41 a.m.

    utebwahaha

    "The 'writing on the wall' is vivid and bold as it relates to BYU's future in D1 football..."

    Utah will always live in BYU's shadow of major college football national achievements and our jealous little brothers on their molehill will forever remain helplessly and completely obsessed with all things BYU.

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    July 17, 2019 7:28 a.m.

    Ute fans are ridiculous! They honestly think this means they wouldn't add BYU if BYU expressed interest? Either they're trying to get BYU fans riled up, or they're embarrassingly ignorant.

    The AAC didn't invite Notre Dame either, does that mean they don't want Notre Dame? Give me a break.

  • kfbob Salt Lake City, UT
    July 17, 2019 6:25 a.m.

    Due to religious beliefs and LGBT issues BYU will never be invited to a “P5” Conference. If not for these issues they would have left for the PAC 12 or Big 12 years ago. They have A top 30 sports program in the nation. But that doesn’t matter. I expect to see the football program shuttered in 5-10 years, and the remaining sports to follow a few years after.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    July 17, 2019 5:38 a.m.

    ArizonaUte,

    I agree with your assessment, although I'd argue UCF and byu have the same access.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    July 17, 2019 5:34 a.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 4:50 p.m.
    @ Tomahawk Red,

    I agree, but some folks have stated that the Big 12 was courting BYu to join which is false. Did BYu talk to some folks behind the scenes......oh U bet they did. They were DESPERATE at that time, and felt dissed that Utah got the PAC invite. But, the ONLY known negotiations were with the Big East.

    --------------

    This I can agree with. I think we're all on the same page now.

  • OldMain Saratoga Springs, UT
    July 16, 2019 11:46 p.m.

    BYU did it's best work and made its name in the WAC and MWC. As an independent they are little more than a barnstorming group. It will never lead anywhere because they don't have the recruits to go undefeated. The Utah State Aggies, by comparison, have a much more direct path to a NY6.

  • nananana batman St. George, UT
    July 16, 2019 10:40 p.m.

    Well I've really been hoping that the AAC would add byu Boise army and air Force and keep UConn and have 16 teams in the conference.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 10:17 p.m.

    Somebody posted earlier about how some BYU fans make this about money rather than pride - guilty as charged!

    I want sitaki to do this for pride as well as the team. Holmoe needs to focus on money.

    Fans are scattered. It's money to me, because I'm practical and since I'm not player so why should I pretend that I accomplished anything if they win?

    I don't see the AAC being more money than independence. It's the most money of any G5 but BYU already makes more money than that and would add expenses in travel (all sports) for less money.

    For those who see this as pride, do you expect BYU to rip apart P5 programs like we are playing in the WAC?

    The schedule is amazing this year. November isn't super good but overall it's far beyond what we used to have. So who wants to trade Wyoming for USC?

    BYU has had some losses and some good wins. But the competition has grown in some big ways. I don't think we need to expect 10 win seasons anymore because we play more than 4 good teams each year.

    I'm a fan of independence and I'm not upset with the losses BYU has had recently. The ones that sting are the winnable ones - fix those and I'm a lot happier even without 10 win seasons.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    July 16, 2019 9:58 p.m.

    When BYU went independent, all I head from BYU and its fans is that it was not about the money. What baloney!

    Regarding Army joining the AAC. Thought I read somewhere, the number one reason against it was the rivalry game with Navy. Anyone hear anything about that?

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 9:06 p.m.

    Alum,

    I appreciate your comments. We may disagree often, let's keep the class and respect. Best to you.

  • wallyball SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 16, 2019 8:08 p.m.

    It's hard to know what what to believe. All of these rabid Ute fans claim to know the absolute truth about all the interworkings of every conference, that no one else is privy to. I believe that Byu getting into a conference has more to do with religious and social reasons than the overall quality if the athletic program.
    Most informed national experts agree with that. This is a difficult concept for many Utah fans to deal with. They prefer to try to minimize a program that the NCAA recognizes as a p-5 equivalent program for football scheduling. Getting into the AAC is challenging due to location, but might eventually make sense for just football. It's apparent to me that some of these hard core posters will never see anything positive about Byu. Very sad way to live.

  • BobbyPaluga Austin, TX
    July 16, 2019 8:08 p.m.

    The AAC has no plans up until BYU asks to meet with the commish and the league’s presidents about joining the group. The teams not on the East Coast: Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Cincinnati, Houston, could benefit from BYU’s large fan base not only in expanding their recruiting, gaining higher TV numbers,and they would experience a larger than normal home crowd when the Cougars come to town.
    It’s up to BYU they would benefit as well, no more garbage games in November.

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 16, 2019 7:33 p.m.

    After all the discussion, no one (BYU lover or hater or ambivalent or disinterested person) can identify a single conference that would invite BYU as a football member or full member. And anyone doesn’t think we are in serious long term trouble? Perhaps it is Dixie who is doing BYU a scheduling favor and not the other way around. I really hope not.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 7:00 p.m.

    @ One Liner,

    I hear ya man and it is refreshing that you've chosen to be genuine and candid, finally. I can empathize with your position as a BYu fan these days, although I was born a Ute. Most great Y fans, only a few there actually are, feel the same way. It is unfortunate sir.

    You know, I grew up in Utah, so I so know about bigotry, anger and vehement hatred. I was lucky enough to get outa there at a relatively young age.........thank goodness.

    I hope you try to be realistic from this point on and I appreciate your last post. Take care man!

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 6:11 p.m.

    At long last,

    You came to a fan board to find reality and humility for college football fans?

    this is really the worst place ever to look for that.

    I'm a die-hard BYU fan. I disagree with much of what other BYU fans say. At the same time, telling people that they are unwanted and hated isn't a way to get humility. It's basically a way to spread hate.

    And why must a person require humility from another group anyway?

    This is where the reality part is interesting - the reality is that fans are going to cheer for their team in down years, if that wasn't the case Utah would have no fans. Utah fans are going to cheer for Utah, BYU fans will cheer for BYU.

    I have no tolerance for fans who aren't loyal to their team - but this isn't about schools or football, this is about something deeper. This is hatred towards another group of people. What we see here is bigotry and anger.

    Let me make myself clear, I object to the actions of the BYU fans who troll the Utes. I think you can cheer your team and have pride - but at the same time Utah has won 8 in a row - do you really need another person to validate what you already have?

    Scoreboard, that's my humility. So why the attacks?

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    July 16, 2019 5:35 p.m.

    @one liner - Dallas, TX

    "I'd contend that the CFP is actually more accessible to a team like BYU as an independent than a G5 team. How about ND and UCF as examples."

    "...for sure BYU would basically need back to back Cinderella runs to get into the playoffs, "
    -----------------------------

    It is literally impossible for BYU to make the CFP, in BYU's version of independence. ND is a bad comparison. Not all Independents have equal access.

    ND has a special deal with access to bowls and the CFP in place. BYU doesn't.

    ND also has the ability to schedule and play the 9 minimum P5 opponents the CFP seems to require. BYU will never be able to schedule 9, P5 team in one season, let alone do it regularly.

    So, even back to back seasons like 83' and then 84' won't do it.

    Like you shared in your example, UCF went undefeated two yrs. in a row regular season. They weren't even close to making the CFP. But they did play in 2 NY6 games.

    BYU has very little shot at even a NY6 game because they have no bowl ties and no auto-bid.

    These are facts. ND> access than UCF > access than BYU.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    July 16, 2019 4:27 p.m.

    Naval Vet - Philadelphia, PA
    July 16, 2019

    Personally, I think the AAC should add Army. And if Army says "no", they should at least "consider" UMass. Not because they're a great program. They're not. But it would help to recapture the small portion of New England they'd lost with the departure of the Huskies

    -----------

    Definitely agree on Army, but they should just keep UConn instead of a downgrade to UMass.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    July 16, 2019 4:24 p.m.

    oneliner- I expect the answer you seem to be seeking is that Naval would like to see some realism on the part of byu fans, coupled with a shred of humility and modesty regarding their teams and their position in the world. This would lessen the hatred of byu and its fans, because they would be somewhat less overbearing and arrogant. While I cannot speak for Naval, that is my objective in pointing our the hypocrisy and arrogant nature of many, if not most, of byu fans.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    July 16, 2019 4:21 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 3:44 p.m.

    In 2011, Texas AD Deloss Dodds was asked point blank on live local tv here in Dallas......."Is BYu being considered to join the Big 12?" His reply loudly......"NO!" OSU alum billionaire T. Boone Pickens was asked the same question just a few moments later.....he replied......"BY who?" TCU HC Gary Patterson was asked as well....."NO!"

    ----------------

    I think where you're failing in this discussion is, you're under the impression that only one of you can be right.

    Everything you stated above, I concede, is true. By the time of all three of those statements, however, byu had likely already been disqualified.

    Merely living in Dallas gives you no special insight into private college football negotiations. it's entirely possible byu had already met with, and was dismissed by, the league by the time those three gave those answers on television.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    July 16, 2019 4:21 p.m.

    No worries cougar nation. Football independence is working out really well. Sitake is just killing it on the recruiting trail. 2019 class ranks 83rd, but they will overachieve. Holmoe has a brand new ESPN contract he is about to drop and your stadium is getting a new paint job and a playground. Watch out CFP!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 16, 2019 4:18 p.m.

    Tomahawk Red:

    "Don't know why the AAC is making it hard on themselves...Just keep UConn football."

    I don't know. It's not like UConn is raising the AAC's profile. If anything, they've been pretty much "dead weight".

    Personally, I think the AAC should add Army. And if Army says "no", they should at least "consider" UMass. Not because they're a great program. They're not. But it would help to recapture the small portion of New England they'd lost with the departure of the Huskies. One of my best friends from back when I was in the Navy eventually went on to graduate from UMass-Amherst (B.S. Psychology). UMass is no "Boston College", but they DO have a fairly substantial alumni base throughout that area from CT to ME.

  • QDiesel SLC, UT
    July 16, 2019 4:14 p.m.

    I don't want them in the AAC anyway. They really need to shoot for the Big 12. That is where their best chance is of getting into a Power 5 conference is and that is the only conference they should want to join. Problem is I see Texas and Oklahoma possibly bailing from there for richer deals in the middle of the next decade when the TV contracts expire.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 4:12 p.m.

    Sooner,

    I respect your point of view.

    We're talking about 2 things that just aren't going to happen.

    However you keep mowing over the fact that ND did indeed make it last year, and even with a 25 game win streak UCF didn't make it.

    ND was aided by luck, the teams they beat were ranked. They beat Michigan who was #14, 3 cupcakes then #7 stanford and #24 Virginia Tech, a few middle of the road teams then #12 Syracuse.

    My conclusion is that it's not going to happen - it would take the stars aligning again perfectly for BYU - but if they were to align, it would be much easier with more P5 teams on the schedule than without.

    If my crazy scenario came true, and BYU beat Utah, USC and Washington, who then went on to win the PAC championship - could anybody in good conscience rank Washington higher than BYU after BYU beat them and their runner up?

    The impossible is slightly less impossible as an indy due to the competition. The G5 tie-ins aren't spectacular, so to get up to that impossible level it helps to have shown games won with more next level teams than a G5 can schedule.

    Have we kicked this dead horse enough?

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    July 16, 2019 4:11 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 3:03 p.m.
    @ JohninSLC,

    I have followed this closely for years. I'm telling you that you're not correct.

    ----------------

    You are correct sir. Byu spoke with both leagues. The Big 12 talks were far more preliminary, but they did have them. The timing of TCUs addition (a very short time after the reports of byu talks) only corroborates the story.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    July 16, 2019 4:02 p.m.

    SoonerUte - Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 11:36 a.m.

    Likely nothing changes in 2023. ... Maybe one or two teams switch P5 conferences if it makes financial sense.

    -----------------

    Nice to see someone thinking logically.

    Exactly right, what happens will barely move the needle for fans. The majority of the change will be how network deals are structured and where games will be seen.

    This ludicrous prognostication of 2023 "coming like a freight train" and shaking up the majority of Power Five membership is so laughable it's hard to believe anyone honestly expects that.

    These dreamers love to hint in their posts, "watch out Utah, you may get dropped"... And then in the same breath... "But they will add byu."

    Yeah, I'm sure that's what's coming. The P5s will shed a ton of dead weight only to then reach down into the G5 ranks and grab byu.

    This type of stuff really makes me LOL.

  • Michigan Cougsfan68 Ann Arbor, MI
    July 16, 2019 3:50 p.m.

    U-H Alum,
    Did I miss the election where you were voted spokesperson for "everyone"? I and many others do not despise BYU or the Church so your " truth" is just the opposite!

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    July 16, 2019 3:46 p.m.

    I prefer staying independent until the "restructuring" in 1923

    ---------------

    I laugh every time I read something like this. This claim has been beaten to death over and over and over. Once 2024 arrives it will land with an anticlimactic thud.

    1 or 2 teams will swap conferences, the leagues will use different models to sell their brand, the media partners will pay a ton for it and that will be it.

    This idea that every single P5 league will suddenly find themselves in an all out frenzy to add teams and water down their ranks is laughable to the extreme.

    Unless byu changes it's social policies and sheds the tremendous baggage it carries everywhere, 2023 will be absolutely no different than 2017, 2018 or 2019 as far as joining a power league is concerned

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 3:44 p.m.

    In 2011, Texas AD Deloss Dodds was asked point blank on live local tv here in Dallas......."Is BYu being considered to join the Big 12?" His reply loudly......"NO!" OSU alum billionaire T. Boone Pickens was asked the same question just a few moments later.....he replied......"BY who?" TCU HC Gary Patterson was asked as well....."NO!"

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 3:40 p.m.

    "other than the Big East in 2011 and the WCC, no other conference has given BYu a return phone call or the time of day."

    I respect your comments in general, but how could anyone know what you just said?

    That's an absolute absurd statement.

    You couldn't possibly know that.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 3:40 p.m.

    one liner "if it happened how could they choose a 12-1 team?"
    We don't know if the CFP views BYU as a G5 or P5. I'd say G5 based on "rate of payout" (less than New Mexico). But let's look at last year's rankings vs an undefeated BYU team this year.

    13-0 Alabama
    13-0 Clemson
    12-0 Notre Dame
    12-1 Oklahoma lost to Texas, but Texas them in the CCG
    11-2 Georgia lost at LSU, and to Alabama in the CCG
    12-1 Ohio State upset by Purdue, beat NW in CCG
    10-2 Michigan, lost to Notre Dame and OSU
    12-0 UCF

    I know you wouldn't dare say BYU is better than Alabama Clemson, and you correctly admit BYU is not Notre Dame, so you're focused on the #4 spot. An undefeated 12-0 BYU is better than a 12-1 Oklahoma? Obviously, I am biased, but OU, UGA, OSU, and even 2 loss Michigan have better resumes. The committee has never favored an undefeated G5 schedule a one loss P5 schedule.

    Look at UCF. They were really on a 25 game win streak and only got to #8.

    To be fair, I would rank an undefeated BYU team over the 3 loss PAC champion Washington Huskies at #9.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 3:33 p.m.

    @ One Liner,

    I also live in Highland Park, Dallas as well.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 3:31 p.m.

    @ JohninSLC,

    That was the Big East, not the Big 12. Please look it up dear man! With respect to us and U!

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    July 16, 2019 3:30 p.m.

    Don't know why the AAC is making it hard on themselves.

    Just keep UConn football. Refusing to do so just shows sour grapes.

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 3:27 p.m.

    "I have followed this closely for years. I'm telling you that you're not correct."

    U-HawAlum:

    Apparently, not close enough. With all due respect, I'll believe McMurphy and ESPN, not you.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    July 16, 2019 3:16 p.m.

    BYU football fans are more concerned about revenue than relevance. (Disclaimer - BYU alum.)

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 3:17 p.m.

    As a resident of Highland Park area of Dallas, I don't remember the city being let into private meetings about the teams that might be involved in expansion.

    Expansion meetings are private, those who are in them are under NDA not to talk.

    What is known was nationally known, there was a movement to steer the committee away from considering BYU, none of which would have happened had BYU not been in strong consideration. You can't acknowledge the public campaign against BYU while saying that BYU was never in the running.

    I'm a big fan of the idea of BYU joining the BigXII. I think that the BigXII tried to bring in teams american idol style which could have brought in more TV rights (but not with the Longhorns and their heavy hand) but ultimately was a mistake in giving too many people too much time to weigh in on what the ADs needed to figure out on their own.

    As for the idea that BYU never was considered - with a lot of schools and ADs and news outlets discussing it, and opposition against it, it's hard to claim with a straight face that it never happened. And as a resident of Dallas - we didn't know anything better than the boys in Provo.

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 3:12 p.m.

    U-HawAlum:

    In fact, just to further support my post, on Nov. 22, 2011 Brett McMurphy quoted a college football industry source: "I doubt BYU will happen. They are being extremely unreasonable all of a sudden. This is one reason why they did not get into the Big 12. Their general counsel (lawyers) is a piece of work."

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 16, 2019 3:07 p.m.

    "American Athletic Conference has 'no plans' to add another team. What does that mean for the BYU Cougars?"

    It means:
    In about 12 days there will be another story about a P-5 conference considering expansion with BYU their natural first choice. BIG 10? SEC?.

    BYU fans will continue to debate which conference it should join - MWC, Big 12, ACC, AAC or any other they choose.

    BYU will blame Utah fans for not using their allotment of tickets and thus the game was some 7,000 short of their first "sold out" game in the past 5-7 years.

    BYU will continue to claim their fans are the reason their opponents home court or home field is sold out. Never mind the game was really played to close to half capacity and those fans that did attend were missionaries given free tickets and/or fans that lived nearby and/or those that did travel brought their word of wisdom and a $20 (?) bill and never broke either.
    The Edwards era was when time began and remains the time of reference for all BYU's frame of reference

    Utah will continue to have a weak pre-conference schedule because they must schedule the "Speaker Hughes implied threat game"

    Lastly, and sadly, BYU will continue to be BYU.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 3:03 p.m.

    @ JohninSLC,

    I have followed this closely for years. I'm telling you that you're not correct. All respects to U........

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 2:47 p.m.

    "No, my friend, the Big 12 DID NOT!"

    U-HawAlum:

    Oh, yes they did.

    One of DNews' very own reporters wrote in September, 2011: "it's reasonable to say that BYU and the Big 12 are in negotiations." The SLTrib reported on Oct. 17, 2011 that BYU-P had "been involved in talks with that league", which was confirmed by Holmoe. In November, 2011, ESPN reported the death of talks with the BigEast, and noted: "The Big 12 had courted BYU earlier this year when it was looking to replace Texas A&M and later Missouri, but working out a television agreement prevented a deal."

    Holmoe had one job . . .

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 2:33 p.m.

    Naval,

    your team is great at punting. That was a punt.

    I'm new here, and not obsessed with you enough to care about going back through thousands of threads, of which you might have contributed 20% of the obsessive postings on them.

    Also, does Oprah talk about that? I don't know, you'll have to fill me in on what she talks about on her show.

    If it's easy to answer - why punt rather than answer?

    What personal benefit do you get telling people that are fans of BYU that BYU will never again amount to anything? What's your goal?

  • JustGordon Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 2:31 p.m.

    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times!

    For our little blue brothers being independent is the best it gets in the 21st century.

    Ironically, that means it is also the worst it can be.

    Unwanted, unconferenced and woefully losing the athletic money race to their Big Brothers on the Hill...our little blue brothers are sinking into irrelevance where nothing before matters because their future is so unappealing: no conference title, no all-conference players, and no conference affiliated bowl. Oblivion.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 2:24 p.m.

    Sooner,

    BYU plays Utah, USC and Washington - if they beat all 3 then they have likely beat either the winner or runner up in the PAC. That's a statement for sure!

    With BSU, USU and SDSU they would have beat the winner of the MWC.

    What if Tenn is really good in all games but loses to BYU.

    That's the extremely unlikely scenario, but if it happened how could they choose a 12-1 team? They can't choose a PAC team and can't choose Tenn or an equivalent after BYU beat them.

    BYU isn't ND but ND did make the playoffs last year (disaster but they made it in).

    On the other hand UCF couldn't make it because you can't compare enough stats to have them make it, unlike BYU who's got games where if they were lucky and the teams they beat were otherwise excellent, it could be nearly impossible for the CFP to disagree.

    I agree that it's not going to happen - my point is that it's like a 1:1,000,000 for a G5 and a 1:500,000 for an indy team - again, look no further than ND and UCF last year.

    One last note, the system didn't change because of BYU, it was later on with non-consensus championships that threatened to tear apart the system which required the BSC to stabilize that mess.

  • Stanton Spokane, WA
    July 16, 2019 2:24 p.m.

    Like Gonzaga men's basketball has proven, it doesn't matter what league or conference a team is part of. It matters that you win the games you play.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 16, 2019 2:14 p.m.

    Cougalum:

    "What a shame that bridges aren’t built fire proof."

    It's statements like these that ensure you'll never span the divide. The "shame" isn't in those bridges weren't "built fire proof". It's that you all lit them. It's been YOUR actions that had kept you adrift, but you seem to still be blaming the match and the tinder.

    You all once had a shot at joining C-USA, but once UAB decided to come back, that pretty much closed the door. They're already at 14 teams, and that's probably 2 teams too many for THAT league.

    The MAC had an uneven alignment once before -- back when they had UMass, so I suppose that if you all finally get around to humbling yourselves, they might be willing to add you to their West division. But again, you HAVE to humble yourselves! Good luck with that.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 16, 2019 2:00 p.m.

    one liner:

    “What’s your end goal?...What’s your objective?...I'm also curious as to whether or not you…have the strength to be vulnerable…”

    Do I have the “strength to be vulnerable”??? Wow. You must watch a LOT of “Oprah Winfrey”! I’m curious as to why you indy-WACers keep asking that question? Are you expecting a different answer each time? That question had already been asked and answered – multiple times no less – on these very DNews threads. And the answer stands the same.

  • Road Runner Cedar City, UT
    July 16, 2019 1:48 p.m.

    "American Athletic Conference has 'no plans' to add another team. What does that mean for the BYU Cougars?"

    It means that our BYU-obsessed little brothers on their mole hill have one more thing to obsess about.

    Meanwhile, dog barks, but the caravan marches on.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 1:43 p.m.

    @ JohninSLC,

    The Big East officials called the Y attorneys/negotiators........"a real piece of work."

    Look it up my friend. Cheers!

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    July 16, 2019 1:33 p.m.

    Just a serious question for those on both sides of the independence/conference issue: Can anyone name any conference who would invite BYU? Anyone? Any conference? Whether it is player ability/mediocre performance, social bias, financial concerns, geography considerations, past and continuing offense given or taken or perceived arrogance or prejudice, these obstacles will not go away by 2023 or anytime thereafter. Holmoe is not the person to overcome any of these obstacles. I doubt any AD could. One thing for sure, if BYU starts this season 0-4 we are in very serious trouble. No conference + no ESPN = program termination. Again can anyone name any conference who will invite BYU? What a shame that bridges aren’t built fire proof.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 1:26 p.m.

    one liner "1984 happened once, as I don't expect a repeat."
    Of course not. BYU was handed a title for an undefeated season. They changed the system after that. Utah had two undefeated seasons since and were not handed a title, because now you have to play for the championship. 1984 is unrepeatable for anyone.

    one liner "It's highly unlikely, yet possible with this type of Indy schedule CFP committee can't deny a shot."
    Of course they would deny a shot. BYU's "toughest schedule ever" does not equal a standard P5 schedule. Be honest about that. The CFP would be choosing between BYU's one-third-P5 schedule, and P5 schools who played a full slate AND a conference championship game. They will pick a 12-1 school (even an 11-2 school) over undefeated BYU every time. Harsh, but that is reality.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 1:13 p.m.

    The "writing on the wall" is vivid and bold as it relates to BYu's future in D1 football........they don't sell, not really competitive vs teams with winning records and no conference will touch them. The Y is a member of the WCC for all other sports for the most part. I think they should concentrate on the WCC and drop football. BYu is a volleyball school folks........and a really good one on the national stage!!!!

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 1:02 p.m.

    " . . . if not for losing our quarterback and running back would have probably played in the Rose Bowl."

    Next excuse up!

    Oh wait, was it next man up? I'm confused.

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 12:45 p.m.

    "please stop stating that BYu ever talked to, or was ever considered by the Big 12"

    U-HawAlum:

    Actually, the Big12 and BYU-P did engage in preliminary discussions back in 2011, when the Big12 was in danger of falling apart. BYU-P quickly overplayed its hand, demanding it's own replay rights--which clued the rest of the league into the fact that having another petulant diva in the conference would be bad. Conference officials were quoted as saying the BYU-P reps were difficult to deal with.

    The odor of coog hubris still lingers in the Midwest.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 12:40 p.m.

    Arizona,

    I'd contend that the CFP is actually more accessible to a team like BYU as an independent than a G 5 team.

    How about ND and UCF as examples.

    1984 was set up by 1983, for sure BYU would basically need back to back Cinderella runs to get into the playoffs, however without the strength of the indy scheduling I don't see it being possible.

    If BYU won out this year, between Utah and USC they'd likely have beaten the PAC-S champ. If the beat Washington they could beat the north champ (my money is on wazzu). Boise and USU and SDSU would mean that the beat the MWC champ. Then Tenn could be good also.

    It's highly unlikely, yet possible with this type of Indy schedule, to make enough noise (with some help from luck) that the CFP committee can't deny a shot.

    Something UCF can't get access to because they aren't allowed to schedule like BYU does.

    The most important thing in this conversation is that it's not important. It's all very hypothetical, it's almost impossible.

    Along those lines, why is that a consideration of the success or future of BYU? 1984 happened once, as I don't expect a repeat I don't place value in what isn't likely to happen.

  • LivinInAlpine Alpine, UT
    July 16, 2019 12:26 p.m.

    vasislos said:

    "And to all my friends who troll as Utes: take whatever sense of happiness you get from criticizing BYU, it will not do anything to change the fact that the Utes are continuing also-rans in the Pac12."

    Yep. An also ran who won the Pac-12 South last year, and if not for losing our quarterback and running back would have probably played in the Rose Bowl.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    July 16, 2019 12:19 p.m.

    AAC is the clear best G5 conf. followed by the MWC. But I don't blame BYU for not wanting to go to the AAC.

    Travel would be brutal.

    I don't get BYU fans who love independence. Holmoe has done a great job scheduling teams. No question there.

    But it's also not even close, that independence has been the roughest patch in modern football for BYU.

    The WAC wasn't any great conference. And all of BYU's accomplishments worth touting, were done there. Natty, Heisman, Miami win, Doak Walker, Outland trophy, etc.

    Independence has been brutal. And it's not putting BYU in a better light, to get invited to a P5. The next two invitees will be UCF and Houston.

    There is ZERO access to meaningful post season play. BYU would have to duplicate 1984 to even get a shot at a NY6 bowl. And even then, it's no guarantee.

    The CFP is literally impossible for BYU from their position as an independent. You can try and convince yourselves otherwise, but it really is impossible. ZERO (0) % likely.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 16, 2019 12:14 p.m.

    well if they want blessings theyll add us.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 12:13 p.m.

    @BleedingCoug,

    I find zero "irony" for whY BYu is so despised by everyone. It happens to be "TRUE!"

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 12:01 p.m.

    @ Charlie24,

    BYu will NEVER be invited back to the MWC! They are THRILLED that the Y is gone!

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 11:57 a.m.

    Naval,

    What's your end goal?

    What's your objective?

    Are you like some DNews Thanos who needs to wipe out half of the fans and then you can finally rest?

    I'm serious and curious. You are giving energy to showing BYU fans that we are hated and despised by others. So if somehow you turn all of us away from BYU and your prophecies are then fulfilled and BYU sports dies - what's in it for you?

    I'm very curious to see what motivates you. I'm also curious as to whether or not you even know and have the strength to be vulnerable and to be real here.

    I'll go first. I like football and cheer for BYU. Easy stuff for me. Your turn.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    July 16, 2019 11:37 a.m.

    @ Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00 - July 16, 2019 10:41 a.m. - "It has been the claim by millions through the decades, including myself..........If all things BYu would ever "CHOOSE" to live by the "Golden Rule," they would certainly have more options, friends and admirers."

    Based on the tone of every single comment you make on these Deseret News BYU stories I would ask, does the word "irony" mean anything to you?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 11:36 a.m.

    TexInUT - "almost none of the conferences will add teams until the television contracts are renegotiated in 2023. Then, BYU Football try to make the case for being added to a P5.

    BYU fans hope for 2 options: Expansion so that BYU gets a P5 spot, or Contraction so that Utah gets knocked out. Neither will happen.

    The last negotiation with the Big 12 sets the tone for 2023. ESPN does not want to pay more money for the next level down (BYU, Cincy, Houston), and why should they? They already have the rights to those games for far less money. ESPN is happy with the current 65 P5 teams. Its a good package. You go to market with a package not individual teams.

    Contraction likewise won't happen. Dropping to 32 teams means 33 teams and their state legislatures bring out massive lawsuits. Cost outweighs the benefit.

    Likely nothing changes in 2023. Not all conference contracts expire at the same time, so there cannot be a coordinated reshuffling of the deck. Maybe one or two teams switch P5 conferences if it makes financial sense. That's the key. It's always about money, and there is no money in expansion.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    July 16, 2019 11:33 a.m.

    AAC is a big step backwards, so good for BYU.

  • charlie24 Sandy, UT
    July 16, 2019 11:27 a.m.

    I don't get it. Why not join the MWC with Utah State, Boise State, San Diego State and an entire slate better than the lowest 3 teams they play every year. Its got tradition, location, etc. It would be a step up and increase the chance of an additional upgrade. Wake up.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    July 16, 2019 11:23 a.m.

    I think BYU would already be in the AAC if it made sense.

    There was an article about how travel is travel and it's just a bit longer on each plane ride - no it's not! That's a significant burden to have to travel so far for every game.

    Beyond that burden it's a lateral move.

    2023 will come soon enough and will hit like a freight train. There is a huge shift in how people watch sports and if they watch sports right now, that's going to make big waves.

    No knowledgeable P5 fan should sit pretty and be sure that their leagues won't get chewed up by this. If they added your team for TV rights they can take them away, there is some huge imbalance in viewership and what teams get paid what.

    I like BYU's position riding out the storm. They are in prime position with realignment. Football is about money, that's the game underneath the game.

    BYU has done very well financially, why would anyone want BYU to get frantic and jump into a conference before it gets restructured in a few years anyway? I'll tell you why, it's those trolls wanting the demise of BYU sports who are anxious to be right at some point in time.

    More $ an an indy than a G5 - so they'll keep with it.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 16, 2019 10:56 a.m.

    I find this announcement to be very disappointing. I was really hoping they'd add Army. Army would be a GREAT fit for that league. Plus, it'd be hard for a conference to be more "American" than one with both West Point AND Annapolis in it.

    Go Navy!

  • vasislos Holbrook, AZ
    July 16, 2019 10:55 a.m.

    At best joining the AAC at this time is a wash. I prefer staying independent until the "restructuring" in 1923. Take our chances at being invited to a P5. And that depends on they type of team BYU fields during the next couple of years.

    The BYU athletic department is ONCE AGAIN rated as one of the top 30 athletic departments in the country. I think Tom Holmoe has done a tremendous job. And although Basketball and Football have not been up to our "standards" lately, there are still hundreds of teams who wish they had the Cougars record of the past 5 - 10 years.

    And to all my friends who troll as Utes: take whatever sense of happiness you get from criticizing BYU, it will not do anything to change the fact that the Utes are continuing also-rans in the Pac12.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    July 16, 2019 10:54 a.m.

    IMO, BYU will never receive an invite to any power five conference or many other smaller conferences.

    It's not because of the football program but because of the uniqueness and perceived offensive moral standing.

    BYU may someday have to drop football all together.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    July 16, 2019 10:50 a.m.

    When we went Independent,
    we sold our birthright
    for a mess of pottage.

    Since then, I have told the truth:
    Independence was a huge mistake, and Jimmer is overrated.

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    July 16, 2019 10:47 a.m.

    Hah, "what does that mean for the Cougars?" It means that they didn't express interest. Aresco was all over Utah media, including BYUSN, to talk about the pending opening and his message was, we aren't soliciting for candidates, but if someone wants to be considered, we would listen.

    Why put your voice out in Utah and close to BYU if you didn't want them to raise their hand to be considered? the AAC didn't want to put itself into a position where they were actively recruiting replacements, but if an attractive option presented itself, they would have been happy to oblige.

    Since no attractive candidate, including BYU, expressed interest, of course they are now saying that there won't be expansion. What did you expect them to say, "We have an opening, but no one was interested, so I guess we are standing pat?"

    Nothing will happen in any realignment scenario until TV contracts start to expire near 2023.

  • skitter Orem, UT
    July 16, 2019 10:47 a.m.

    Street, I am concerned about reputation and legacy because both of those are major factors in college sports. A great reputation can be the difference between a five seed and an eight seed in the tourney. A great legacy could be the difference between the Cotton Bowl and the Aloha Bowl. Money drives sports. Bigger names with bigger reputations means more people watch. That is the difference between ESPN Thursday night game or prime time ESPN Saturday. Reputations bring bigger recruits, better donors, more nfl scouts. Legacy and reputation are huge. Unfortunately are reputation is terrible and we are destroying our legacy.

  • cougarsrock Springville, UT
    July 16, 2019 10:41 a.m.

    Old News here ... The AAC knows that BYU has no interest in joining their conference or they would have already become a member several years ago .......

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    July 16, 2019 10:41 a.m.

    There are definitely mixed opinions within Cougarworld on the subject of (any) conference affiliation v. just staying independent.
    I roll my dice and I come up with sixes...no clear opinion either way when it comes to football. I DO NOT bash AD Holmoe since I have tons of respect for Tom.
    Two comments as follows: we have a great schedule so the onus is ours to just simply win 8 or 9 games every year to be Bowl eligible.

    My second comment regards WCC basketball where I have clear and strong opinions: With the exception of Gonzaga, road crowds are pathetic! WCC teams have a pathetic following on the road, their fan support is dismal.

    Every basketball player loves the excitement and energy when playing in loud, packed arenas, non-existent in virtually all WCC arenas. WCC talent goes three teams deep at most. Not sure great players want to come to BYU when faced with high school venues, only half filled.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    July 16, 2019 10:41 a.m.

    It has been the claim by millions through the decades, including myself..........If all things BYu would ever "CHOOSE" to live by the "Golden Rule," they would certainly have more options, friends and admirers. Alas................

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    July 16, 2019 10:27 a.m.

    @agarret who wrote---If there are "no plans to add another team" it simply means it doesn't make sense for either side. Why would BYU want to join an East Coast league?
    ....

    The Fox scoffed, "Those grapes are probably wilted and sour...."

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    July 16, 2019 10:25 a.m.

    Independence and Tom Holmoe is driving BYU’s basketball and football programs into the dirt. Independence isn’t sustainable over the longterm. Tom has no plan nor has the ability to build the relationships needed to lead BYU into a successful future.

    Time to get an AD who can build meaningful relationships and lead BYU’s athletic programs into the future.

    Tom plans on “hope” for things to work out... No leader relies on “hope” in sports or business. He has failed every organization which he has mismanaged.

    BYU needs a competent AD. It doesn’t need a defensive back, who is just filling a position. Tom’s skills are mismatched in the athletic department.

  • estreetshuffle Window Rock, AZ
    July 16, 2019 10:16 a.m.

    Why are fans so concerned about reputation and legacy. Leave the Glory Days alone.
    Here is a section of lyrics from Bruce Springsteen's Glory Days.

    In fact I think I'm going down to the well tonight
    And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it
    But I probably will
    Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
    A little of the glory yeah
    Well time slips away and leaves you with nothing, mister, but
    Boring stories of
    Glory days, well they'll pass you by
    Glory days, in the wink of a young girl's eye
    Glory days, glory days

  • skitter Orem, UT
    July 16, 2019 9:51 a.m.

    It’s sad to see g5 teams surpass BYU in national relevance. Independence has killed our brand. Sure independence brings in more money, but our brand continues to spiral downward. We built our legacy on dominating g5 competition. Now we are barely .500 with g5. Join a conference, any conference and rebuild our legacy.

  • agarrett PROVO, UT
    July 16, 2019 9:49 a.m.

    If BYU wanted to join the AAC, they already would have. Mike Aresco is on record as saying they would love to have BYU in their league. If there are "no plans to add another team" it simply means it doesn't make sense for either side. Why would BYU want to join an East Coast league? I can't wait for the offseason to be over so we don't have to deal with "news" like this anymore.

  • TexInUT Midvale, UT
    July 16, 2019 9:46 a.m.

    What I think it means is that almost none of the conferences will add teams until the television contracts with the 'Power 5' and Fox / Disney (ABC & ESPN) / CBS (and maybe other broadcast groups) are renegotiated in 2023. Sure, you might see some movement before then, but it will not be much.

    Until then, BYU Football will more than likely stay Independent and try to make the case for being added to a P5. Two of the best things they can do is build a winning record and package themselves with another school (Boise State, maybe) to add an 'area rival' that will bring in fans money to a conference.

    Also, having all of your athletic teams in one conference will benefit the school as well in the areas of recruiting, travel and a healthy fan base. It seems like where ever the Cougars go, they have dedicated fans show up to watch an event and spend money.

  • Scores Idaho Falls, ID
    July 16, 2019 9:29 a.m.

    This is a non script story. BYU had NO interest in pursuing the AAC from the get go.

    The BYU Cougars are looking forward to their next game, just like all the other college football teams in America.

  • 46 & 2 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 9:21 a.m.

    Just a couple weeks ago, coug fans and the DN were acting like it was a “sure thing” that the AAC was going to invite them. With many, many comments claiming how much “better” the AAC was than the PAC 12. Funny how coug fans have to compare everything Utah is associated with.

    So what does this mean? That they are, and will remain mid-majors forever. Time to call Conference USA.

  • UncleArtie Brigham City, UT
    July 16, 2019 9:16 a.m.

    I think it is good news. As an independent BYU can schedule more games against P-5 opponents than they could as a G-5 team. This may mean more losses, but it is also an opportunity for higher ranking; all the Cougs have to do is win.

    Plus, G-5 team home games are on CBS Sports Network, which is not on my cable package. So I am happy.

  • estreetshuffle Window Rock, AZ
    July 16, 2019 9:01 a.m.

    Who cares. Let's just play ball.

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2019 8:53 a.m.

    “many wondered if it might make sense for the AAC to add the BYU Cougars as a football replacement.”

    Hah! All of the ‘many’ wishful wonderers were in Provo.

    Ain’t independence great, when even G5 leagues say NO?

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 16, 2019 8:54 a.m.

    It means that the foundation continues to crumble as their AD and it's loyal fans desperately paint over it. Yeah, they're in full denial. go cougs.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    July 16, 2019 8:47 a.m.

    Well, in College football doublespeak that means they are adding a team very soon!

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    July 16, 2019 8:41 a.m.

    I think it means tears and realizing once again nobody wants them.