Trump abandons bid to include citizenship question on census

Return To Article
Add a comment
  • Bob Tanner Price, UT
    July 15, 2019 12:33 a.m.

    I am saddened that President Trump has abandoned asking for the question about citizenship on the upcoming census. I believe the information would be valuable on several different levels.

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    July 12, 2019 4:05 p.m.

    Sportsfan123 - Herriman, UT
    ---
    The only people disappointed are the rabid trump haters that soaked up 2.5 years of trump russian collusion dilusion hoax spewed by the leftist propaganda machine, only to find out by Mueller there was no conpiracy between russia and the trump campaign to throw the election.
    I'm truly sorry so many were fooled and so many are still clinging on to that lie.
    ---

    My dislike for Trump began long before he ever became a TV star. Any one who willingly associates with the likes of Roy Cohn is suspect from the very start, then the bankruptcies, then the Birther Movement, which should have ended with the answer to "who was Obama's mother, and what country was she a citizen of?", just as it was quickly answered in the case of Ted Cruz, documented to have been born outside the US, but to a US citizen mother. End of story.

    Trump has shown himself repeatedly to be unworthy of respect, whether in private business, or now in politics.

    The Mueller Report documented significant and organized attempts by Russian or those working on behalf of Russia to influence the US political environment to be favorable to Trump.

    That's documented. That is not a lie.

  • Sportsfan123 Herriman, UT
    July 12, 2019 3:27 p.m.

    Daedalus

    "Trump has proven again and again that he will not or cannot deliver on those promises his supporters hold so near and dear."

    Other than the border wall and healthcare which congress refuses to cooperate, what promises are you talking about? Please tell..

    "Repeated and consistent disappointment and dashed dreams eventually results in humiliation and loss of self respect. The only surprising aspect of america's abherrent Trump moment is how long it has taken for his followers to reach that point."

    Is said poster speaking for the masses? What disappointment?

    The only people disappointed are the rabid trump haters that soaked up 2.5 years of trump russian collusion dilusion hoax spewed by the leftist propaganda machine, only to find out by Mueller there was no conpiracy between russia and the trump campaign to throw the election.
    I'm truly sorry so many were fooled and so many are still clinging on to that lie.

    But a great economy that oblama had nothing do with is bolstering my 401K and stock's - thanks trump.

    Jeclar

    " I'll pick the new world order over ...Trump"

    You tube new world order from american president's - then read the U.N. agenda's in their entirety.

  • Daedalus, Stephen Arvada, CO
    July 12, 2019 1:51 p.m.

    @sportsfan: "If you love your country as it is there is only one man willing to stand against this. His name is Donald Trump."

    Ah, there's the rub.

    Even if you believe in and fear the various convoluted conspiracy theories that you mention, your belief that Trump is capable of competently addressing a mere fraction of those imagined problems is misplaced.

    Trump has proven again and again that he will not or cannot deliver on those promises his supporters hold so near and dear.

    Repeated and consistent disappointment and dashed dreams eventually results in humiliation and loss of self-respect. The only surprising aspect of America's aberrant Trump moment is how long it has taken for his followers to reach that point.

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    July 12, 2019 1:20 p.m.

    Sportsfan123 - Herriman, UT
    ---
    The previous four administrations suported globalism it did not matter which party was in the white house, people need to understand there is an agenda being pushed by the United Nations that calls for a one world government and all four of the previous presidents publically talked about a new world order.
    ---

    Even with the weakness of the UN, the World has not had a 3rd World War since it's inception. There have been several 'go it alone' examples of the US's intervention in the world, such as Vietnam and Iraq. Perhaps if the US had dropped the A-Bomb on Hanoi, things would have turned out better for the US. Goldwater hinted at that, and to his political doom.

    So, the New World Order, where a global body is in place to work out conflict issues with less or no warfare is seen as an evil, and where patriotism and imperial dreams, which have been seen repeated in futile and massively destructive wars, are praised.

    I'll pick the New World Order over a hot air windbag such as Trump and his conspiracy oriented followers.

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    July 12, 2019 12:22 p.m.

    sman - columbia, MS
    ---
    The Census results dictate where 400 Billion dollars go and spent in communities of this nation ,it also affects the number of of representatives each state has. That alone should be a good reason to know how many citizens and how many illegals are in our population.
    ---

    The purpose of the Census is to determine the population of a state, and that will determine the number of representatives to Congress, and also determine amount each state would be liable for in a direct tax, as provided in the Constitution. Property Tax is a direct tax.

    There were a few qualifiers on who and how to count persons in the Census. Slaves were given the famous 3/5ths count, and 'Indians not taxed', is the other. All Free Persons were always counted.

    Further the only question that is per the Constitution to be asked, is 'how many persons live in the house/home/residence' where the questionnaire is filled out.

    There are no Constitutional requirements such as birthdate, birthplace, citizenship, or any other of the many questions that have been asked in the past or are included on the currently in the process of being printed questionnaire.

  • reriding Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2019 11:22 a.m.

    Vermonter, the long form was not used in 2010 census, but the citizenship question was retired from the long form census in 2005, and the American Community Survey has had the question since 2005, so whether or not Obama dropped the long form, he did not drop the citizenship question.

  • Sportsfan123 Herriman, UT
    July 12, 2019 11:06 a.m.

    What is truly sad is that the SCOTUS got involved and supported the left in this matter.

    I dont think people understand clearly what is going in this country, this is not a bipartisan/partisan issue, it is much bigger than that.

    The previous four administrations suported globalism it did not matter which party was in the white house, people need to understand there is an agenda being pushed by the United Nations that calls for a one world government and all four of the previous presidents publically talked about a new world order.

    Research agenda 21 and agenda 2030 on the U.N. website read all of it not just the pretext and title, what all of us should be concerned about is their plans for population control thru eugenics, hence the push for abortion. No borders and no sovreignty, hence the politics regarding our border and why democrats refuse to enforce immigration law.

    The U.N. charter has changed since WWII instead of coming together as multi nations to prevent another halocaust, they now intend to remove constitutions, patriotism and sovreignty.

    If you love your country as it is there is only one man willing to stand against this.

    His name is Donald Trump.

  • Freiheit Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2019 11:05 a.m.

    @RiDal "'Suppressing the response of illegal aliens' would be exactly what we want to do. They have no right to be included in allocation of benefits or resources"

    So if these people add to our traffic congestion, we should press on blindly allocating funds and resources for roads and highways without knowing the true numbers involved. The same for water systems, law enforcement, to say nothing of locating super markets, car dealers and other fairly necessary commercial establishments. Absolutely brilliant. Just keep throwing money and resources out there without knowing where they might be needed most, because after all, abysmal ignorance is always the best solution to any problem.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    July 12, 2019 10:07 a.m.

    @Daedalus, Stephen: "The effect -- and purpose -- would be the same: selectively depress the response rate of a demographic with a known political preference, ...."

    Uhhhh...."suppressing" the response of gun owners would be suppressing legal American citizens.

    "Suppressing the response of illegal aliens" would be exactly what we want to do. They have no right to be included in allocation of benefits or resources. THey have no right to influence the allocation of Representatives in Congress. They have no say in our government., They are here illegally, and should simply be "not here". "Suppressing" them is called "enforcing the law".

    Which part of "illegal" is so difficult to understand. It is an important distinction.

    PS: "Suppressing" their influence on our government is not "persecuting" them or "harassing" them in any way. It is simply avoiding having "foreign influence in our elections" which was the whole pretext of the Russian collusion hoax.

  • Laura Billington Maple Valley, WA
    July 12, 2019 9:06 a.m.

    @RiDal writes,

    "So let's say a non-citizen decides to vote: With no proof of citizenship, and no ID required...how would we even know ?

    See the problem ?"

    I understand that you are very concerned with people telling the truth and following the law.

    But not a single Trump supporter has written in and stated the obvious: The administration tried to get the question added but gave a phony reason for their action. The Supreme Court ruled against them. The administration should have followed the law and accepted the decision. But they didn't. They have continued to attempt to circumvent the Supreme Court decision.

    So all this concern about telling the truth and accepting the laws (even when it wasn't convenient) was a sham? That violation of laws matters only when it's the "other side" who is doing the violating?

    See the problem ?

  • Count Rushmore Too Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2019 8:49 a.m.

    "Trump's attempt to weaponize the census"

    That was the funniest part of the article. It illustrates the degree to which the globalists see America's border as a "weapon."

    Leftists, here are some other weapons: Law and order is a weapon against anarchy. Freedom, peace, and prosperity are weapons against totalitarianism. Political censorship is a weapon against democracy.

  • Daedalus, Stephen Arvada, CO
    July 12, 2019 8:29 a.m.

    @reriding "Just imagine a future president decreeing that gun ownership and number number and kinds of firearms in the house be included in the census of his time, and you may quickly come to realize the danger of Trump's threat, now rescinded."

    Indeed.

    The effect -- and purpose -- would be the same: selectively depress the response rate of a demographic with a known political preference, resulting in a tactical undercount and skewed allocation of federal resources and Congressional districts that favors one party over the other.

    That would be wrong in equal measure for the same reasons.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    July 12, 2019 7:48 a.m.

    @Military Mom.
    NPR is bending the truth with selective reporting.

    The Census Long Form, sent to some Americans but not all, had a citizenship question and was used up to and including the 2000 census.

    The Obama Administration terminated use of the Long Form for the 2010 census.

  • reriding Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2019 7:46 a.m.

    Just imagine a future president decreeing that gun ownership and number number and kinds of firearms in the house be included in the census of his time, and you may quickly come to realize the danger of Trump's threat, now rescinded.

  • reriding Salt Lake City, UT
    July 12, 2019 7:40 a.m.

    Vermonter, in Utah we must provide a valid driver license or ID card as part of the voter registration process. To obtain such identification, citizenship must be proven, using a birth certificate or other documentation as required by law. It's true you don't need to prove citizenship at the ballot box, but it's a part becoming a registered voter.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    July 12, 2019 7:39 a.m.

    A comment was made that the question was on previous census, so why is it a problem now. And this is a valid statement. I do a reasonable amount of genealogy work, and use Ancestry to read past census for information.

    But the reality is the question wasn't popular even back in the day. For example, looking at the 1900 census for Salt Lake City, there was three questions about citizenship - are you a citizen, for how long, and year of naturalization. It also asked for the place of birth of you, and your parents. Majority were born in Utah, so the citizenship question wasn't asked. Of those who were born out of the country, most answered when they arrived, but few answered the naturalization question - at least in the census book I just looked at.

    1920 census had more questions about native tongue.... questions about citizenship - mostly when you arrived and such.

    1930s added a question if you spoke english enough to work.

    1940, the question largely disappeared and it only had a column for citizenship - which seemed to be largely blank most of the time.

    So there was precedent to ask the question.... somehow the administration just really bungled this up on rational.

  • military mom Herriman, UT
    July 12, 2019 7:22 a.m.

    @sman

    According to an NPR fact checking report published a few months ago in March, "The last time a citizenship question was among the census questions for all U.S. households was in 1950. The form asked where each person was born and in a follow-up question asked, 'If foreign born--Is he naturalized?' In 1960 there was no such question about citizenship, only place of birth."

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    July 12, 2019 7:10 a.m.

    @NoNames - I wish I shared your assessment. Per reporting I read initially Trump was willing to take the defeat in the Supreme Court, and move on. Hence the permission to go ahead and start printing. But then he had a huge backlash from those on the far side claiming Trump was abandoning his campaign promise. To "save face" with this crowd he had to do something to show he still was passionate about the subject - all though realizing it was pointless at this stage.

    This data he has asked to be collected has been there for the entire time he has held the white house. There is nothing new here. He since the beginning has been obsessed believing there are millions that need to be purged from the voting roles. He when first elected wanted the states to turn over their voter registrations to the feds. Almost all states refused his request. Trying to get people off the roles has been a constant.

    This has been an ill advised tactic for a while. Rather than boot voters, get them to join your cause. But instead the tactic has been to reinforce your base, and demonize the opposition. Im not sure that will work going forward. It might... who knows.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    July 12, 2019 7:08 a.m.

    @silo, Utah Blue Devil.
    Thanks for info. Seems to indicate no massive voter fraud by non-citizens.

  • sman columbia, MS
    July 12, 2019 1:38 a.m.

    The Census results dictate where 400 Billion dollars go and spent in communities of this nation ,it also affects the number of of representatives each state has. That alone should be a good reason to know how many citizens and how many illegals are in our population. Everyone is throwing a fit and acting as if Trump is crazy for trying to get the citizenship question on the census don’t realize that it was on the census all the way up to President Obama, who took it off. Congress did not change the Census ,Obama did. Yet Trump critics claim he is going against presidence trying to add it back.

  • EmmanuelGoldstein1984 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 11:11 p.m.

    Nice to see checks-and-balances working. Nice to see a wannabe dictator stymied!

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    July 11, 2019 8:42 p.m.

    Blinded by tribalism, too many are missing an important point of this report. If Trump's motivation for asking about citizenship was to somehow suppress the response rate of either legal or illegal residents, then there is really no reason to seek citizenship info via other means. That he is asking federal agencies to gather the data via other means is some evidence his intent was other than--or at least went beyond merely--seeking to suppress response rates.

    This is both important and good news. It is well past time to dial back tribalisms and bigotries far enough to actually think rationally about events rather than blindly attributing to malice everything the "other team" does and mindlessly cheerleading everything "my guys" do.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    July 11, 2019 8:01 p.m.

    As I understand it Utah requires proof of citizenship to get a drivers license. If you are a legal resident, you get a drivers privilege card instead. And a drivers license or valid Utah ID card is required to register to vote.... at least that is how I understand it.

    If that is true, Utah requirement of proof of citizenship to vote is satisfied by proof of citizenship to get your license. And to vote, you have to show an ID. So its kind of circular. If you have a privilege card, you will not be able to vote.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    July 11, 2019 6:58 p.m.

    @vermonter
    "Does anyone know of a state that requires documented proof of citizenship to vote?"

    California.

    Per the California Secretary of State website, you cannot vote if you are not registered to vote, and you cannot register to vote if you can't prove US citizenship and California residency.

    Many other states have the exact same setup.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    July 11, 2019 6:55 p.m.

    "I don’t know of anyone ever being asked to prove citizenship to vote. If they don’t need to prove it, then there would be very little evidence of illegals voting. Does anyone know of a state that requires documented proof of citizenship to vote?"

    You have to prove citizenship to register. You have to register to vote. You have to be on the list of registered voters to cast a vote. Without registering....no voting. Without citizenship.... not registering.

    It's really that simple.

  • Furry1993 MSC, UT
    July 11, 2019 6:29 p.m.

    Now everyone can vote, and the purpose of the census -- tabulating population numbers and location demographics -- can be fulfilled without the would-be dictator in the White House trying to use the information for non-census purposes. The guy in he White House has to learn that he doesn't have the powers of a God, and is subject to the laws of the country (much as he wants to forget/avoid that fact).

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    July 11, 2019 6:12 p.m.

    @Emmanuel.
    Re: No evidence of illegals voting.

    I don’t know of anyone ever being asked to prove citizenship to vote. If they don’t need to prove it, then there would be very little evidence of illegals voting. Does anyone know of a state that requires documented proof of citizenship to vote?

    @wgirl.
    I like your idea. Don’t allow any questions not needed to count the population. This includes gender, ethnicity and age. Or, allow those kinds of questions, including citizenship question. Should be one way or the other. Maybe a judge or constitutional scholar can tell us which it should be.

  • NeifyT Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 6:02 p.m.

    @RiDal - "But the census is the tool specifically set up to measure demographic information. "

    NO! That was never the purpose of the census. It was NEVER intended to measure demographic information.

    It was only intended to determine how many people reside in the US (regardless of race, gender, age, citizenship, etc. etc.). All that should ever be on it is how many people. There is no other reason for any other demographic information at all on the census as that is NOT the purpose of the census.

    While it is true that for many years demographic information has been collected; that is actually in violation of the Constitution.

    And what is worse is now they not only do the census every 10 years; they do mini censuses every couple of years; asking extremely personal questions that have no baring whatsoever on the government representation; and claim under penalty of imprisonment that one must answer their Spanish Inquisition type questions.

    Our government has long abandoned the very purpose of this nation's founding! Life, Liberty and Justice FOR ALL!

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 5:41 p.m.

    Backing down Donald has a pattern that cannot be ignored. Losing everything since Mexico did not pay for the wall.

  • wgirl , 00
    July 11, 2019 5:10 p.m.

    @Ridal: "If we use a different counting method, why do you think illegals would cooperate with that method any better than they would cooperate with the census?
    In fact, the would not. "

    Looks like somebody told Trump that we have other methods too. You don't like his idea?

    We will wait and see what Trump's plan is specifically, but there is plenty of information about U.S. residents on Social Security, IRS, State Department, and immigration records.

    Just be careful - he could issue an executive order and demand all kinds of information. This time it is citizenship status, but what will it be next? What information might a different President demand - citing Trump's action as precedent? How might that information be used?

    It used to be that Republicans didn't like the idea of "big brother" looking over their shoulder.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    July 11, 2019 5:02 p.m.

    As usual Trump is "All Hat and No Cattle." Nobody makes idle threats better than this guy.

  • mcclark Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 4:44 p.m.

    Trump says "I am not backing down", as he backs down.

  • Gus Talwynd Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 4:38 p.m.

    RiDal - Sandy, UT
    July 11, 2019 3:17 p.m.

    " . . . let's say a non-citizen decides to vote: With no proof of citizenship, and no ID required...and in a Sanctuary City, where the police actively refuse to even check citizenship status, how would we even know if a voter was a non-citizen? "

    Straw man argument. Let's say you try to illegally emigrate to Russia . . .

    Trump's backing down on this threat was expected all along. Two weeks of news cycle noise.

    Now his schedule roundup of undocumented immigrants will probably follow the same course: noise, debate, more noise, threats of lawsuits, more noise, and then surrender.

    Talk about a legal headache for the Trump administration. Maybe Donald Trump likes the mishigas, but his staff probably are saying, "Enough, already".

  • EmmanuelGoldstein1984 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 4:17 p.m.

    @RiDal:

    Are non-citizens clamoring to vote? No. There is no evidence of significant non-citizen voting in any of our elections.
    So why all the doomsaying? What's the real agenda?

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    July 11, 2019 3:38 p.m.

    I wonder at what point liberals in reliably red states, and conservatives in reliably blue states will decide to opt out of the census?

    There is a legal penalty for not completing a census form. But, no one has been prosecuted since 1970. And prosecution could be difficult since the completion rate was only between 70% and 80% in 2000 and 2010.

    Also, will someone in Congress propose that we use the Population Estimates Program instead of an actual count to apportion representatives?

    This could get interesting.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    July 11, 2019 3:25 p.m.

    @wgirl "rest assured there are many different ways that we count the number of citizens, non-citizen permanent residents, and even people living here illegally. The Census is not our only tool. "

    But the census is the tool specifically set up to measure demographic information.
    If you agree that we have a legitimate right to know this information, then why not use the best tool we already have: the census.
    If we use a different counting method, why do you think illegals would cooperate with that method any better than they would cooperate with the census?
    In fact, the would not.
    It is simply absurd to have a national census of a population and not ask which people are citizens of that nation.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    July 11, 2019 3:17 p.m.

    @one old man : "How many times do we -- those of us who actually understand basic American laws and the Constitution -- have to tell those who don't that ONLY citizens of the United States may vote in an election.
    Non-citizens MAY NOT vote!"

    That triggers an irony alert. It is like saying "Illegal aliens may not enter our country." An obviously false statement.

    So let's say a non-citizen decides to vote: With no proof of citizenship, and no ID required...and in a Sanctuary City, where the police actively refuse to even check citizenship status, how would we even know if a voter was a non-citizen ? How could we even investigate it ?

    See the problem ?

  • The Great Helmsman Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 3:16 p.m.

    Believe me, by the way, the media doesn’t have a clue, they've been getting away with murder. We hit a home run with the non-census avenue. I was never going to use the census. Never, fake news.

    I always was going with the non-census for citizenship. It will hit them harder. I have many, many friends, I must tell you, who say "I won" with the non-census avenue.

    I’m a believer in doing very well with the non-census avenue for citizenship question. In all fairness, it was always the plan. In the whole world, it will be the best non-census avenue for citizenship questions. They are laughing at us, the likes of which has never been seen before, ever . . . about us not using the non-census avenue to ask the citizenship question.

    The census avenue? Not gonna happen… okay? … right? That I can tell you, to be perfectly honest, I was very much involved in the non-census avenue to ask the citizenship question.

    It's going to be major, major. A game changer, people are saying all the time.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    July 11, 2019 3:01 p.m.

    Nottrue wrote : "The libs want as many here as possible for the reason of votes."

    How many times do we -- those of us who actually understand basic American laws and the Constitution -- have to tell those who don't that ONLY citizens of the United States may vote in an election.

    Non-citizens MAY NOT vote!

    So once again, Nottrue, what you have written is indeed Nottrue.

    ( But it makes a great scare tactic for people who failed their high school government class. )

  • Daedalus, Stephen Arvada, CO
    July 11, 2019 3:00 p.m.

    For the Trump followers who really really wanted the citizenship question on the 2020 census, please direct your disappointment to the incompetent Trump administration.

    It may well have been possible to add the desired citizenship question, but it required adhering to the Administrative Procedures Act. Trump and his team proved incapable of simply doing what other administrations -- Republican and Democratic -- routinely did, on a wide range of controversial and non-controversial issues.

    Trump failed.

    Trump failed his followers.

    He failed you.

    Again.

    And again.

    And again.

    Yet, you folks are still planning to renominate him as the GOP candidate for the 2020 presidential election.

    Why not choose someone who is even nominally capable of managing tasks and people?

  • Frozen Fractals Paducah, KY
    July 11, 2019 2:43 p.m.

    Remember in 2010 conservatives like Glenn Beck and Michele Bachmann had a conniption about the census asking a question about race, and how they'd say that people should either skip the census entirely or skip that question?

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    July 11, 2019 2:35 p.m.

    Chalk up more "winning" for T rump. The only thing left for him to do at this point, 2 years into his Presidency, is make Iran great again.

  • Mackenzie Iwamoto , NY
    July 11, 2019 2:26 p.m.

    Harrison Bergeron - Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 12:58 p.m.

    "Citizenship sounds like a perfect census question. In fact, this ought to be the first question the census asks."

    When the Founder's wrote the Constitution, they automatically excluded Native Americas as citizens and agreed to count slaves as 2/3 of a person. The only citizens were white men who owed property. Women, children, and non-landowning white men were excluded. Yet there was no inclusion of "citizenship" in the census. The Constitution left that out because otherwise they could not get the actual count of the total residents.

    They, however, included Native Americans, slaves, women, children, and non-landowning white males in the count of total population. Other factors were included (i.e. how many children, how many slaves were owned), but citizenship was not considered important as that wasn't necessary in determining representation. The only reason that Donald Trump wants the question included in the census as a means of keeping some people from participating in the population count. That is what the designer of the question intended and made clear in his presentation to Republicans.

    [more]

    1 of 2

  • Mackenzie Iwamoto , NY
    July 11, 2019 2:27 p.m.

    2 of 2 [continued]

    America slaves did not gain legal status as citizens until the 14th Amendment. Native Americans were not granted citizenship until 1924. Chinese immigrants who had been permanent residents prior to WW2 were finally allowed to become citizens after President Franklin Roosevelt signed the Magnuson Act (December,1943) rescinding the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 which made further immigration and citizenship for Chinese already living in the U.S. illegal by federal law. Also, all other Asian groups were included in this law (Indians, South Asians, Filipinos) except for Japanese. The Immigration Act of 1952 finally allowed immigrants of Japanese descent to become citizens and allowed my grandparents to finally achieve their greatest wish after living and working in the U.S. for over 40 years.

    U.S. immigration policy has always been fraught with problems, often racially based, but never tied to the census. The writers of the Constitution saw no need to exclude anyone from the population count. Although people lived here who had been denied citizenship over the years yet still contributed to this nation's growth, they had always been counted in the census.

  • The Great Helmsman Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 1:57 p.m.

    Allegedly, Glorious Leader will not ask the citizenship question on the census, but will use some other tool developed by the Commerce Department.

    The supporters of Glorious Leader will tie themselves in knots trying to spin this surrender by the Master Negotiator.

  • Joe Leaphorn Scottsdale, AZ
    July 11, 2019 1:28 p.m.

    Is Donald Trump just making noise and stirring the pot or is he actually prepared to issue an executive order countermanding a Supreme Court decision? Obviously a sitting president can't be indicted. We learned that from the Mueller Report where Trump has approximately 10 charges of obstruction of justice pending. So we can't expect him to get arrested for violating a Supreme Court decision as one who is "above the law". But it could be that anyone carrying out the executive decision could be prosecuted.

    The United States held Japanese prisoners accountable for carrying out illegal orders. The idea of "just following orders" was held as unacceptable in incidents violating international law. Japanese soldiers who executed American airmen after capture were held accountable for carrying out orders given to them by superior officers.

    Similarly, any person following through on an illegal executive order can and should be held accountable. By implementing the executive order in violation of a Supreme Court decision is involvement in a conspiracy to violate the law. Trump may be able to avoid prosecution temporarily, but others participating in his illegal act would be complicit.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    July 11, 2019 1:24 p.m.

    "there would be a large movement where many citizens would mark themselves as "illegal" on the census to protect those who really are and are afraid to mark anything."

    Please oh please.

  • Mad Hatter Albuquerque, NM
    July 11, 2019 1:02 p.m.

    jsf - Centerville, UT
    July 11, 2019 10:59 a.m.

    "And thus your vote means less because of illegals being included in the number those two things are allocated on. Also allows for undue influence by fewer people in those illegal sanctuary states."

    So you are fine will excluding legal immigrants, green card holders, refugees, and asylum seekers? Why do you lump all immigrants as "illegal" in your defense of Trump's citizenship question?

  • Harrison Bergeron Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 12:58 p.m.

    Citizenship sounds like a perfect census question. In fact, this ought to be the first question the census asks. Censuses ask all kinds of personal questions about age, race, religion, income, etc. But none of those are as fundamental as citizenship. It seems like the whole point of a census would be to see how many citizens are here and how many foreigners are here. Traditionally this has always been part of the census. Not sure why we are complicating the matter.

  • Mad Hatter Albuquerque, NM
    July 11, 2019 12:55 p.m.

    Nottrue - Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 12:11 p.m.

    "The issue at hand is why are the illegal aliens here in the first place! The libs want as many here as possible for the reason of votes. Everyone knows that!"

    Too much Fox News in your viewing diet. If you're going to misrepresent the facts, how does "everyone know it"? We've got enough Right-Wing shills in these threads.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    July 11, 2019 12:52 p.m.

    The latest update is T rump has backed down, yet again. Much ado about nothing, as usual.

  • 1st avenue New York, NY
    July 11, 2019 12:36 p.m.

    "Remember when Republicans were all upset about "Obamacare" being "forced" on the American people by a President that issued too many executive orders"

    so what do conservatives think about the fact that Trump has written more executive orders then Obama did at this same point in his administration?

  • robin138 springfield, VA
    July 11, 2019 12:34 p.m.

    It appears that Trump and some of his fellow republicans do not believe in the Constitution and that the Executive Branch = the Legislative Branch = the Judicial Branch in power in our federal government.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 11, 2019 12:29 p.m.

    Why would there be a risk of "undercounting" ? No legal citizen should have any reason to not answer,
    ____________________
    It's not an issue of legal citizens vs. illegal immigrants. The concern is that immigrants who are not yet citizens but are here legally feel they have reason to fear because of what they see as Trump's open hostility towards Hispanics in general. I quite agree with them.

  • wgirl , 00
    July 11, 2019 12:29 p.m.

    @ridal - rest assured there are many different ways that we count the number of citizens, non-citizen permanent residents, and even people living here illegally. The Census is not our only tool.

    My ancestors - not citizens - were given 160 acres of free land when they immigrated here. My family reaps the benefits of that generous government hand-out to this day.

    I guess I should just be grateful that “America is here for American residents” didn’t apply to them. They came here with no passport, visa, money or skills, and the US government did all they could to make their lives better.

    Make America Great Again?

  • T-money$$$ Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 12:19 p.m.

    I suspect if there was - by some miracle - a citizen question added at the last minute, there would be a large movement where many citizens would mark themselves as "illegal" on the census to protect those who really are and are afraid to mark anything.

  • Nottrue Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 12:11 p.m.

    The issue at hand is why are the illegal aliens here in the first place! The libs want as many here as possible for the reason of votes. Everyone knows that! If they weren't here this wouldn't be an issue, I have no problem with questions concerning citizenship. Make the guilty ones look over their should for breaking OUR laws!

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    July 11, 2019 11:59 a.m.

    Even if the number of illegals is "overestimated"...why shouldn't we find out what it actually is ?

    Why would there be a risk of "undercounting" ? No legal citizen should have any reason to not answer, and not counting illegals who may not respond is exactly what we want to do. If we undercount illegals, then their presence does not dilute the vote representation in the House of Representatives.
    America is for American residents who are here legally. We are under no obligation to make things better for illegals. That idea is pure insanity.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    July 11, 2019 11:53 a.m.

    The silence of supposedly pro-Constitution Republicans is deafening. The citizenship question will suppress an accurate count as required by the Constitution. And, Trump is effectively thumbing his nose at the 3rd branch of government, just as he has shown disregard for the 1st branch of government. If you are pro-Constitution, you have no choice but to be anti-Trump. But then, hypocrisy is a GOP trait in today's world, it seems. A personality cult is more important than the work of the Founding Fathers. Go figure, but note it and remember come election day.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 11, 2019 11:39 a.m.

    jsf,
    ". . . . thus your vote means less because of illegals being included in the number those two things are allocated on. thus your vote means less because of illegals being included in the number those two things are allocated on."
    ____________________
    This is nothing new and it's overstated by an Administration that exaggerates illegal immigrant estimates for political advantage by exploiting fear. The real risk is under-counting the population which is preferred by Republicans who are increasingly alarmed at shifting demographics that have not been moving in their direction.

  • wgirl , 00
    July 11, 2019 11:25 a.m.

    @JSF - People from states like Utah need to be super careful when they start making complaints like "thus your vote means less."

    Because of the Electoral College our vote "means" much much more than the votes of citizens in California, New York etc. From the Washington Post:

    "each individual Wyoming vote weighs 3.6 times more than an individual Californian’s vote. That’s the most extreme example, but if you average the 10 most populous states and compare the power of their residents’ votes to those of the 10 least populous states, you get a ratio of 1 to 2.5."

    Do you think we should let every Californian cast 2 votes? Those of us living in small, more rural states, have no right to complain about our votes not counting - those rich southern slaveholders set up a pretty sweet deal for themselves...and us. Should we ask Hillary Clinton if we should go with a system where every vote gets the same "weight?" The winner of the election is who gets to most popular votes?

    Trump has no case. He couldn't get the job done. He couldn't get a question added to the Census, or Mexico to pay for his wall, or Hillary locked up.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    July 11, 2019 11:14 a.m.

    Oh, puhleeeze, President Trump, puhleeeze.

    We all know you gin up your supporters with your "tough guy" talk about illegal immigration and demonization of persons with Hispanic roots.

    We all know that even your generally compliant Supreme Court couldn't stomach the balderdash peddled to the Court to sanction your questions.

    And we all now know that you need to keep the issue alive to protect your precious "tough guy" routine alive with your base of supporters. As with promises to deal with the expense of certain drug prices, you will eventually cave on this as well. Then find a way to assuage your tender ego and the keep your fan club happy by blaming your failures on Obama, Hillary!, Pelosi, Schumer, or almost anyone else.

    This is all so predictable, and frankly quite boring.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    July 11, 2019 10:59 a.m.

    "The Constitution also explicitly granted Congress the final say when it came to reapportioning each state’s delegation to the House and Electoral College based on the census count." And thus your vote means less because of illegals being included in the number those two things are allocated on. Also allows for undue influence by fewer people in those illegal sanctuary states.

  • J. Smith Salt Lake City, UT
    July 11, 2019 10:47 a.m.

    Article One of the Constitution explicitly put the census in the hands of Congress, not the president. It provides that the first census “shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as [the House and Senate] shall by law direct.” The Constitution also explicitly granted Congress the final say when it came to reapportioning each state’s delegation to the House and Electoral College based on the census count.

  • wgirl , 00
    July 11, 2019 10:41 a.m.

    Remember when Republicans were all upset about "Obamacare" being "forced" on the American people by a President that issued too many executive orders and played too much golf? Good times, good times.

  • eldonp Parowan, UT
    July 11, 2019 10:06 a.m.

    This move combines two of Trump's favorite things: flaunting the law and promoting a bigoted policy. He's also doing it without Congress. Have we become too numbed to see what this is? It's the opposite of democracy based on the principles of equality. It's tyranny.

    Hopefully Sen. Romney will speak up, but it's likely the rest of the Utah delegation will fall in line, goose-stepping their way behind the Great Leader.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 11, 2019 10:05 a.m.

    The Supreme Court ruled on the question and Trump refuses to take no for an answer. I thought Watergate hit rock bottom in the Presidency acting above the law. But Trump seems determined to define himself as the quintessential outlaw President.

  • JaneB , 00
    July 11, 2019 9:35 a.m.

    Won't work, as the administration well knows. (Why do you think all the lawyers on the case quit?) The administration has no real options after Roberts flatly said their reasoning was "contrived". (A polite way to say they were lying.)

    So now they are suddenly going to conjure up a reason that passes muster? And get this past all the court challenges in time? Even with Barr (Trump's new best friend) on the case, it ain't gonna happen. And we all know why they want the question.