Brad Rock: Seriously, how much does BYU want major bowls and championships?

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  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 1, 2019 8:45 p.m.

    If Phil Steele's projections prove true in 6 months (to the day) Utah will be playing Ohio State in the Rose Bowl!

    Why would BYU want that when they are projected to play Hawaii in the Bowl in Hawaii on December 24th?

    Sounds like an even trade - to the cougar fans.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 1, 2019 12:30 p.m.

    BlueHooey:

    “Wait! you say. The PAC12 is so much better!”

    Pretty much EVERYBODY is saying that. Were it the other way around, teams in the Pac-12 would be leaving our league for independence. What a delusional little indy-WACer you are.

    “Consider Utah. They play PAC12 and nobody else (but BYU). Utah won’t schedule a P5 OOC game (or hasn’t yet).”

    What a frantic and emotional thing to say. You KNOW we’d already scheduled – and played – a Home-&-Home with Michigan! Plus, what about our Home-&-Home series with Baylor? The year you managed to schedule 10 “power” league teams in a single season where Utah is only playing nine, THEN will you have room to talk about a “BORING” schedule. But NOT when your playing a schedule that incudes Toledo, Liberty, Idaho St, and UMass on top of 4 other midmajors. Typical hypocritical coug.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    June 30, 2019 12:49 a.m.

    @Michigan Cougsfan68 - Ann Arbor, MI

    BYU is no measuring stick. Don't mistake Utah fans responding to comments like yours, as Utah fans using BYU as a measuring stick.

    BYU's M.O.? Beat a bunch of terrible teams and call it success. Good for ya'll.

    BTW, technically Utah tied for a P12 So. division title and won 1 outright. So, that's 2. They have finished ranked in every poll a number of times, are #6 in the nation in number of weeks ranked in the CFP Poll - something the the CFP themselves track, not Utah fans.

    Furthermore, this preseason, national pundits like Phil Steele and may others are predicting very good tings for Utah, like finishing #8 in the nation, winning the PAC12, appearing in the Rose Bowl, etc.

    I am not a huge fan of preseason polls, predictions and rankings. But Utah should be really good this yr.

    Finally, Utah doesn't have as many SOS trophies as BYU has "moral victories" for "margin of defeat" trophies. BYU has an entire wing of a building on campus dedicated to those.

  • Michigan Cougsfan68 Ann Arbor, MI
    June 29, 2019 9:16 p.m.

    PG,
    So one division title and lots of SOS trophies in eight years in the Big Leagues is your idea of earning respect and national attention? Utah and it's fans still use BYU as a measuring stick and benchmark!

  • Michigan Cougsfan68 Ann Arbor, MI
    June 29, 2019 9:05 p.m.

    cougAlum,
    Sure your not a Utealum, because you sure have all the Utah talking points memorized! Is independence perfect? No! Is it a hell of a lot better then being in the MWC under Herr Thompson? Absolutely!!!!!! What about all the bad blood and bridges Utah has burned since leaving the MWC? Have you not read the many disparaging comments by Utah "fans"
    About both the MWC/WAC conferences that Utah helped build? I have been a BYU fan for as long as I can remember and will continue to my dying day!!!!!!

    Go Cougs!!!!!!!!
    Rise and shout!!!!!!!!!
    Go ROC!!!!!!!

  • PhineasGauge St Paul, MN
    June 29, 2019 2:21 a.m.

    BYU fans commenting about, what they deem as, a lack of success from a team that has beaten them 8 consecutive times is pretty hilarious. I am pretty new to this Utah/BYU thing but BYU bagging on anything Utah Ute is similar to Army fans bagging on Notre Dame. Being from SEC country, everyone knows who the Utes are. They garner respect based on their relevance over the past 20 years. Beating Alabama a few years ago only cemented that respect. As for BYU, relevance from 40 years ago has not really served them very well outside of the Utah bubble. You want respect.... Earn it like Utah has.

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    June 28, 2019 9:36 p.m.

    Holmoe is a pretty smart guy. He has to know that no P5 conference is going to invite BYU. He has to know that the AAC might consider BYU but they would probably be more interested in a school within its present footprint. He has to know that the MWC will not include BYU due to very hard feelings going back 15 - 20 years. I hope the behind the scenes working of ESPN will get BYU an AAC invite. But if it does, BYU will still have to work to be competitive. I hope BYU isn’t trying to negotiate over any postseason bowl issue with ESPN. BYU needs to take what they can get and not try to leverage a position they do not have. Otherwise it will be home and home with Dixie State as our traditional rivalry.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    June 28, 2019 5:49 p.m.

    @Stocksup - Salt Lake City, UT

    "I worry I'll go to my grave without seeing any sort of success like the early 80s because it just seems to me like BYU and their their ADs have been happy with mediocrity as long as they can fill the stadium and have a good deal with ESPN."
    -----------------------

    You should stop worrying. BYU will never see that sort of success again. It was a one time blip in time, due to a perfect storm.

    Right coach with a unique offense that gave BYU an advantage over teams of that day. Even with inferior athletes (the reason for the unique offense). Opponents weren't built to stop it.

    NOW.....Teams have caught up and know how to defend those types of offenses. Erasing that advantage forever.

    Getting another coach like Lavell isn't likely.

    Plus, college football, like, and with, technology, has evolved in every way. Exposure, quick access to coaches/players, money, the profession, recruiting and national services, camps, training, knowledge, science, nutrition, etc, etc, etc. BYU is struggling to keep up.

    In your lifetime, and beyond, you will certainly not see BYU repeat anything close to the 80's.

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    June 28, 2019 5:11 p.m.

    What kind of program touts its schedule instead of its record? I for one am very tired of being beat by every good big name program (except Wisconsin which didn’t turn out to be as good as expected going into the BYU game.) Remember the decades where Utah State, in return for a big payday would play a great team like the Nebraska of long ago and be out scored by 50-60 to the Cornhusker 3rd string? No one back then around the country ever started a conversation around a water cooler: “Hey how about those Aggies? They are great. They aren’t afraid to schedule a team expecting a 50-70 point loss. This seems to be the Cougar trend. Remember the day when BYU was in a conference and still beat a great Miami team? You can’t expect to be a relevant team just because you are not afraid of loosing 6 games per year to better teams. Its not just exposure but successful exposure that has value. A conference championship will always trump an Infamous Potato Bowl “championship.” Forget Utah. Forget the Big 12. Forget the MWC and forget ESPN and any contact money. Regardless of these considerations, 4 and 7 as well as 6 and 6 regular season records are shameful. Only wins count.

  • Stocksup Salt Lake City, UT
    June 28, 2019 2:35 p.m.

    Having attended BYU in the early 80s with the likes of McMahon, Young, the Miracle Bowl and the national chamionship, the lack of fame and notoriety (or even relevancy) since then has been disheartening. I worry I'll go to my grave without seeing any sort of success like the early 80s because it just seems to me like BYU and their their ADs have been happy with mediocrity as long as they can fill the stadium and have a good deal with ESPN. If they really wanted to be in a power conference, they would address those opportunities (and there have been a few) with a big suitcase full of cash and say something like "I'm just going to leave this suitcase and if just so happen to get invited to your conference, we would be grateful." You all know this is how a lot of these deals get done but it seems that BYU is unwilling to do whatever it takes to make it happen. I think this is WJWD. (just kidding)
    OK, maybe BYU and it's representatives can't actually do this, but some of their mega rich boosters can! (hint, hint)

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    June 27, 2019 9:00 a.m.

    "Why would a Utah a Top 25 P5 program compare itself to the cupcake down South who is 3rd State? You guys need new material."

    And you post on a BYU article because?

    The irony is laughable - you can't get BYU out of your mind and tell BYU fans to move on. If you moved on we wouldn't be having this discussion.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 27, 2019 5:16 a.m.

    Cougs4Life - Gilbert, AZ
    June 26, 2019 11:39 a.m.
    @AZUTE1, Eddie Would Go and Uteology: I'd love to calculate the data for Utah with 100% P5 recruits...but unfortunately you don't have a season yet that meets that criteria as a middle of the road P5 program in a weaker P5 conference that consistently plays FCS schools OOC and struggles to win games against p12 schools with winning records.

    I didn't make an effort to compare to BYU, their results for the last 8 years are mediocre too. Is BYU the standard that you use for Utah's achievements? I thought you had moved on from that?

    -----

    Why would a Utah a Top 25 P5 program comapre itself to the cupcake down South who is 3rd State?

    You guys need new material.

  • mabramso Orem, UT
    June 26, 2019 3:34 p.m.

    @SoonerUte:

    Why on earth would you compare the AAC to P5 conferences? The AAC is NOT the Big 12 or Pac-12. So BYU can negotiate from a position of strength -- not because they are better than AAC teams, but because they would have almost nothing to gain.

    With respect to the rest, BYU has not been relevant for 20 years. Independence is no different from the MWC, except for the money and exposure.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    June 26, 2019 1:48 p.m.

    Arizona,

    My apologies, I ended with "did you read the article?", I mistakenly thought I was on the thread about the top 25 schedule ranking. My bad.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    June 26, 2019 12:18 p.m.

    Zona,

    We don't know what the new deals will be, however it's safe to assume that if there is such a decline that the BYU deal is significantly less next round, then one might assume that the PAC deal will be at the same margin.

    Still good for Utah, maybe. Look at the fan base with the California schools, then look at Utah. How will the conference members react to an equal share of something based on TV market size?

    You are smart enough to know that Utah didn't get an invite to the PAC because they won some big games.

    We don't know the future, but I wouldn't be so sure that the big money schools will be cool with an equal share of money if it means that it's a drop in historical payout.

    I guess we'll see, but I don't think that Utah gets spared the storm that might hit BYU, just hits BYU first.

    One more note, you mentioned that BYU plays a MWC schedule outside of the 4 P5 teams. Not at all. BYU plays the 3 best teams in the MWC after playing more P5s than any non-P5 not named ND. Replacing those MWC teams with a few PAC teams might actually be an easier schedule. Overall it's exactly what independence is, between a P5 and a G5.

    Did you read the article?

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    June 26, 2019 11:39 a.m.

    @AZUTE1, Eddie Would Go and Uteology: I'd love to calculate the data for Utah with 100% P5 recruits...but unfortunately you don't have a season yet that meets that criteria as a middle of the road P5 program in a weaker P5 conference that consistently plays FCS schools OOC and struggles to win games against p12 schools with winning records.

    I didn't make an effort to compare to BYU, their results for the last 8 years are mediocre too. Is BYU the standard that you use for Utah's achievements? I thought you had moved on from that?

    The point is, whether you look at the last 5 years or the last 8 years, the Utes performance has been closer to "below average" than "elite" and your overall record has been padded against FCS teams, lower division G5 teams and p12 teams with losing records.

    Playing p12 games against other below average opponents isn't an excuse for the two patsies in your OOC schedule. Especially when you don't perform well each year against the p12 teams with winning records.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    June 26, 2019 11:28 a.m.

    @Some.BYU.Dude - Mesa, AZ

    I think your assumptions are wrong.

    1) AAC now gets $7mm per team per yr. from the media. BYU currently gets between $4-5MM. BYU may get more but we don't know that yet. So, the "getting paid more" is unknown at this point.

    2) There is nothing that says BYU can't play P5 opponents in OOC games if they are in the AAC. Those OOC games will pay them ADDITIONAL $$$. Providing BYU their highest possible payout.

    3) Today, BYU plays 4, P5 opponents (typically, we know there are seasons with more but mostly 4) and then basically a MWC schedule, or worse, the rest of the yr. The difference, if they joined the AAC, is that they would be playing for something, get more $$ overall and have access to meaningful bowl games.

    4) Finally, who says it's easier to get invited to a P5 conf. as an Indy than from a conf? No Indy
    who is not ND, has been invited, but G5 teams from conferences have been. Conf. pay-out restrictions won't be an obstacle if you are in a conf.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    June 26, 2019 10:55 a.m.

    @ some YBu dude,

    No conference will offer BYu. They all have very high morals and standards...........and won't take a radical religious school that doesn't treat all people with dignity, respect and freedom...... the USA way!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    June 26, 2019 10:30 a.m.

    What a silly question, I’m sure they want it really bad just like every college football team

    Why wouldn’t they.

  • Some.BYU.Dude Mesa, AZ
    June 26, 2019 10:14 a.m.

    Play a worse schedule to possibly have the chance to play one really good opponent at the end of the year, with taking less money versus playing more intriguing and difficult opponents all year, possibly facing that "one really good opponent" sometime during the year, keeping more money, and still having a chance of playing another "really good opponent" at the end of the year? Why would we ever join the AAC for football?

    The only argument to be made in joining the AAC for me is for non-football sports. The AAC is definitely an upgrade there. Would love to play in the AAC for non-football, but for football, stay independent or get in a P5. Simple as that.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 26, 2019 9:26 a.m.

    one liner "But what will happen in 2024?"
    Not sure if you are referring to realignment (I don't think anything happens) or TV contracts.

    "watch what happens with BYU's TV payout it's a foreshadowing of 2024 for the PAC"
    I don't see that as a good measure for the P5 schools. ESPN already told the Big12 that they did not want to pay "big money" for BYU content. I expect a modest, polite bump for BYU. One of the G5 conferences recently took a pay cut. That is more a bad sign for BYU than for the PAC.

    The P5's want the Big10 deal. Their deal was probably an anomaly (its huge), but it will be a talking point for other P5 negotiations. If ESPN/CBS/Fox are running out of money, the top 65 are still going to see the better shares of money, with cuts to G5.

    "if ESPN is going down to the next thing people do to follow sports, then the PAC might not be as cushy of a place 5 years"
    The PAC took a gamble in retaining rights rather than selling them. The idea was to position themselves better for new content delivery methods. The PAC has the option of changing to a traditional media rights deal.

  • Eddie Would Go , 00
    June 26, 2019 9:23 a.m.

    Coug4life,

    You said:

    Here's Ur p12 performance over the last 8 seasons:

    1. Overall record: 34-38
    2. Overall opponents record: 503-425 (average overall season record: 7-6)
    3. Record against p12 teams with a winning record: 12-30 (29% winning pct.)
    4. Record against p12 teams with 10 wins in a season: 3-15 (17% winning pct.)

    I have to admit - this intrigued me. So I crunched BYU's numbers for the same time period. This is what they are:

    1. BYU's overall record (against P12): 5-13
    2. BYU's P12 opponent (I think this is what you calculated) record: 119-109 (average overall season record: 6-6)
    3. BYU's record against P12 teams with a winning record: 0-10
    4. BYU's record against P12 teams with 10 wins in a season: 0-2

    So, if you aren't impressed by Utah's performance against the Pac 12, here is the evidence that it is superior to BYU's during the same time period.

  • Cougarista Salt Lake City, UT
    June 26, 2019 9:11 a.m.

    Brad, BYU would like to be #1 in everything to do, but not at the price of casting off their ethos.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    June 26, 2019 8:59 a.m.

    Brad Rock claims BYU's new deal, being "worked on" would be more lucrative than the new AAC deal.

    1) He couldn't know that. AAC teams now get just over $7mm per team per yr. from media. That is more than BYU currently gets, by a few million per yr.

    2) BR fails to point out that BYU would still have 4 non-conf. games where they could still play the same P5 teams they have slated already.

    3) Get the AAC $$, then play the P5 teams for more $$ and BYU does better in the AAC, financially, than they ever have done. At least from a media pay-out standpoint.

    And they still play a tough schedule, but have something to play for.

    Playing in the AAC and playing 4 P5 teams aren't mutually exclusive. Just play the P5 teams as OOC games. Problem solved. $$ increased and all is good.

    BYU basically plays 4 P5 teams to start the season NOW!! Then they play the equivalent of a MWC schedule or worse for the majority of the schedule.

    How is scheduling the P5 teams as OOC games and then playing in the AAC different, except that fact that BYU would make the most $$ by doing that?

    How is it different than what they do today, in essence?

  • Eddie Would Go , 00
    June 26, 2019 6:22 a.m.

    Cougs4live,

    Your post does a nice job of pointing out that many Utah posters exaggerate how successful the Utes have been since joining the Pac 12. But to put it into context of the endless Utah vs BYU debate that is found in EVERY Utah or BYU article in the Deseret News, would you please report those same statistics for the Cougars?

    I don't know the exact numbers to BYU vs P12s with winning records, or P12s with 10+ wins, but isn't it "0 for x" in both instances?

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    June 26, 2019 12:01 a.m.

    Sooner,

    I was cleaning out some really old boxes of stuff that have followed me around too many homes over the years, among them cassette tapes I bought in high school and CDs I bought at the end of high school in college. I never listen to either of them anymore, not for years, it's all pandora and google music - and years down the road I won't listen to those either because everything shifts over time.

    Utah lucked out with the PAC TV deal, Limo Larry was wise that day and the PAC and the TV networks looked at land and realized that if Colorado didn't come in they'd lose a huge market and be locked on the west shore and Utah was needed to grab that as well. BYU wasn't a cultural fit and Boise can't do academics, so Utah scored huge in that deal, the entire PAC did.

    But what will happen in 2024?

    You seem like a reasonable guy, I'm assuming that you are smart enough to know that when you watch what happens with BYU's TV payout it's a foreshadowing of 2024 for the PAC. Now I'd rather have the west coast on my TV deal also, but if ESPN is going down to the next thing people do to follow sports, then the PAC might not be as cushy of a place 5 years from now as it is today.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 25, 2019 11:33 p.m.

    @Coug4

    I know...but U play 9 conference P5 games every year! Here's Ur p12 performance over the last 8 seasons:

    1. Overall record: 34-38
    2. Overall opponents record: 503-425 (average overall season record: 7-6)
    3. Record against p12 teams with a winning record: 12-30 (29% winning pct.)
    4. Record against p12 teams with 10 wins in a season: 3-15 (17% winning pct.)

    ------

    Meaningless stats, how does Utah compare to other PAC-12 teams using same criteria?

    5th overall
    7th in PAC-12

    Utah was the only G5 program, we took 3 years to build a PAC-12 program, since then the last 5 seasons.

    * Ranked #25 nationally
    * 3 AP Top 23 (4 Top 30)
    * 2 South Titles (1 out right)
    * Beat 6 Top 25 teams, 4 top 12
    * 24 CFP rankings
    * Record: 44-22 66% (25-20 55%)
    * 28-2 vs OOC (1-2 vs Top 25)

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:56 p.m.

    So much talk. But it all misses the point. This isn't supposed to be about money, or "exposure", or abstract statistics (like SoS).

    It's supposed to be about football, and achieving excellence in the sport! Football excellence is measured on the field for each game by the scoreboard.

    For a season, excellence is measured by W-Ls, but that needs to be placed in some context: a conference! Teams in a conference are meaningfully ranked over the season by playing as many of the other teams in the conference as possible.

    Then, the bowl games are supposed to match up the best from each conference, ultimately giving us a national champion.

    Independents are trying to take shortcuts, blurring the ability to compare their records by removing the conference context. No amount of abstract statistics (like SoS) can compensate for not competing in a conference. They are making it about stats and numbers instead of excellence in head to head sport competition. Independents should be penalized for that.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:40 p.m.

    Cougs4Life, that was one of the best rebuttal posts I've ever read here. Way to go Bro.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    June 25, 2019 9:40 p.m.

    Sure BYU, beg for an AAC invite!
    As others have already pointed out. Will fans go across the country to Provo with their teams?
    Rather than masquerade as Notre Dame of the west. Become Hawaii of the east! Subsidze your conference buddies to play at your place.

  • Edmunds Tucker St. George, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:09 p.m.

    according to USAToday, there are 130 football teams for the NCAA division 1, of which 123 disclose their coaches salaries and buy outs. 7 Do not including BYU. Navy's coach AAC is at 58 with $2.1M, North Carolina is $2.5M, Memphis $2.6M, Duke $2.5M, BC $2.5M, Cincinnati $2M, Wake Forest $1.8M, Houston $1.75M, Georgia Tech $3M, Pitt $3M, NC State $3M, Virginia $3.5M, Miami $4M, Louisville $4M, Virginia Tech $4M, Florida State $5M, Clemson $6.6M, That's a lot of schools and money to be competitive.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    June 25, 2019 8:27 p.m.

    BYU fans have to decide whether they want several chances to beat a Big Name School in the regular season every year or play a lot of unheralded schools in hopes of going to a major Bowl once a decade. I think that’s the real choice here.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    June 25, 2019 7:55 p.m.

    All of us have heard the pro vs con debates of being independent multiple times and compelling arguments are made by both sides.

    I'm in the "we would be better off in a conference" camp, although I clearly recognize the benefits of independence as well. The MWC would be a better fit geographically (with historical ties as well) than the AAC, but I would rather see us in the AAC (regardless of the travel requirements) than remain independent.

    Even though we have almost P5-like schedules in 2020 and 2021 (2019 really is not), we would get much greater benefit from competing for a G5 conference championship and a NY 6 bowl game in either the MWC or AAC. I really want our "independence" (which in reality is "dependence" on the whims of other schools) to end.

    Will we get an offer from the AAC? I doubt it. Despite our football tradition and viewership upside, any conference inviting us would have to be willing to endure the politically driven student protests that this almost certainly would generate (and school presidents would face aggressive, and even hostile, questioning from the media).

    In most ways, Army seems to the be best fit to replace UConn in the AAC.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    June 25, 2019 7:35 p.m.

    Jacobiuntherus - Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:04 a.m.
    If in any-way-shape-or form joining a conference means catering to any of the LGBTQ lobbying group's pressures I say absolutely not. Do not compromise principles for membership in a conference!

    ------

    You seem to be under the impression that you're the only one with principles.

    Why should any league compromise on thier own principles and standards for BYU?

    Stanford boycotted BYU in 1968 for a reason, you were on the wrong side of history.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 7:15 p.m.

    one liner - "BYU dropped in the MWC, the Mountain TV deal was a complete disaster" .
    Part of Cougar fans reluctance to return to the MWC (which makes more sense than AAC), is they don't realize The Mountain is gone. More teams have more exposure, though you might be snobbish about the medium. YouTube? NetFlix? CBS? We're on ESPN! Cougar fans greatest fear for Indy today is that the new deal will put them on ESPN+.

    It would be a shame if pride about "being on ESPN" kept BYU from choosing the best path for their program. Money can't be ignored, of course. It is tempting to sell your content. Still, if the Cougars really had the following they claim, BYU would broadcast all of their home games on BYU-TV and sell high-dollar commercials. Of all the teams in America, wasn't BYU best positioned for the new paradigm of football content? They could have been a leader, but the ESPN bumper stickers look nice.

  • water rocket , 00
    June 25, 2019 6:49 p.m.

    Until BYU starts winning more games it is way too early to talk of joining ANY conference. I like BYU, but the brand of football they are putting out is no where near where it needs to be. I really don't mean to sound down on the Cougars, but until they incorporate more passing and an up tempo offense, they are nothing but a Utah wannabe team. They have long forgotten the BYU brand that gained the label as the QB factory for the NFL. So I plead with the BYU coaches to PLEASE develop a passing attack. Remember the FAMOUS Idaho Potato Bowl pass efficiency rating that only featured 19 passes to 33 running plays. Remember how those passing plays netted over 18 yards per attempt, whereas the running plays netted only 4 yards per attempt. It really isn't rocket science (unless the BYU coaches are involved, hmmmm).

  • Howard S. West Jordan, UT
    June 25, 2019 6:08 p.m.

    BYU the sexiest choice for the AAC?

    Funny.... National reporting today suggests that there is no potential candidate that would bring sufficient value to the conference.

    Sexiest choice? Probably not...

  • CO Ute , 00
    June 25, 2019 5:26 p.m.

    To many Y fans posting here, especially those that forgot the home and home series against Michigan; is BYU a P5 equivalent.

    If so, Utah plays 10 P5 teams EVERY year so your arguments about schedule are weak.

    If not, then your team then your argument is a bit stronger and it is just your team that is weak.

  • Laxman Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 5:18 p.m.

    BYU may be willing to travel cross country to join a conference, but are the members of the ACC willing to fly to Provo to play the y? I can’t see why they would want to add all of the extra travel just to add BYU-p. Doesn’t make sense to me. Maybe the y can pay the extra money the other teams in the conference. Maybe that would make them the sexy choice.

  • zipadeedoodah Lehi, UT
    June 25, 2019 5:14 p.m.

    Once again this is about BYU football but it seems that it must be about Utah football. I suggest fans of both schools drop the bragging and badgering and just go out and play some ball.

    And now to address the PC politics brought out in this article that advocates for LGBT organizations lobbied to keep the Cougars out.... Since we are on topic for this discussion, note that the LGBT movement is not about tolerance for differing views or it would have not tried to lobby against BYU in this situation. Rather the movement is to get rid of people who don't endorse their movement. If you are not actively promoting their movement you are labeled and attempst are made to hurt you.

    BYU, Utah, LGBT... everyone... just live and let live. Stop the badgering and, to an extent, bullying.

  • sgallen Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 4:53 p.m.

    BYU is in a psychologic no-man’s land. Playing just to been seen is fine if your venue is theater or ballet. I suspect most sports fans crave serious competition and measuring yourself against your opponents. Remember how much fun the WAC and MWC were? It didn’t matter if BYU won every year, there was something to play for. Real energy in November!

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    June 25, 2019 4:50 p.m.

    Jacobiuntherus - Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:04 a.m.

    If in any-way-shape-or form joining a conference means catering to any of the LGBTQ lobbying group's pressures I say absolutely not. Do not compromise principles for membership in a conference!
    -----------------

    Exhibit A ^ why byu will never receive a Power Five invite.

    Name me one P5 league that wants anything to do with the toxic baggage that comes with it. Heck, name me one G5 that wants it.

    Independent for LIFE.

  • estreetshuffle Window Rock, AZ
    June 25, 2019 4:46 p.m.

    Isn't there something new to talk about. This is rehash over and over and over. Just say Utah is better and BYU is the little brother and settle it and go on. Phew!!

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    June 25, 2019 4:16 p.m.

    Why are BYU fans so obsessed with Utah?

  • jpc53 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 25, 2019 4:12 p.m.

    You forgot to mention NIU, which has not only gone to a New Year's bowl game but also beat BYU last year.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    June 25, 2019 3:51 p.m.

    Cougs4Life—

    Go ahead & detail for us what our PAC-12 overall record is since we had a roster 100% full of P5 recruits.....I betcha don’t do it.

    Go Utes!

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    June 25, 2019 3:08 p.m.

    Haha...Ur bragging about the Utes P5 OOC schedules?

    1. In 8 seasons since joining the PAC, U played 3 P5 OOC opponents.
    2. U also played 7 FCS opponents and BYU 6 times.
    3. On the schedule for the next 6 seasons are 2 P5, 6 FCS, 4 G5 and BYU 6 times.

    So, in the first 14 years of Pac12 glory, that equals 5 P5 OOC (Pitt, Michigan and Baylor) games vs. 13 FCS games. BYU continues to be your best OOC game each year.

    I know...but U play 9 conference P5 games every year! Here's Ur p12 performance over the last 8 seasons:

    1. Overall record: 34-38
    2. Overall opponents record: 503-425 (average overall season record: 7-6)
    3. Record against p12 teams with a winning record: 12-30 (29% winning pct.)
    4. Record against p12 teams with 10 wins in a season: 3-15 (17% winning pct.)

    So, U are playing P5 teams in conference, but they clearly aren't the cream of the P5 crop, and U don't perform so well against the best competition.

    With an overall losing record in conference, Ur not really the cream of the P5 crop either! Unfortunately, Ur results don't match Ur arrogance.

    (I know, I know, but what about the SOS trophy in your closet, and 8 in a row, and 2008, blah blah blah?)

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    June 25, 2019 2:42 p.m.

    I thought that Ute fans all said BYU was irrelevant and that they had 'moved on'.

    You'd never know by the massive amounts of posts by Utah fans on every single BYU article, plus the most 'likes' on Ute comments. I guess even 8 straight wins over BYU has failed to erase the inferiority complex.

  • Oh Really? Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 2:29 p.m.

    I think I’m going to go over to the Utah Jazz articles where all the Warriors, Raptors and Milwaukee fans are commenting.

    Oh, wait. They aren’t obsessed with teams other than their own.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 25, 2019 2:27 p.m.

    "... I've come to the conclusion that 65TossPowderPuff despises Ute fans more than he loves ybU-p."

    Not me - I say nice things about the Utes all the time. You should read more Utah stories I guess.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 25, 2019 2:21 p.m.

    one-liner:

    "BYU dropped in the MWC, the Mountain TV deal was a complete disaster and it was BYU being off TV for a while that killed what they had built in the WAC."

    Utah had the exact same TV deal as you guys, yet that didn't seem to hurt us! We were a disaster in the WAC, yet despite having the same TV deal you, we quickly assumed the vanguard of the MWC, then launched evermore upward into the Pac-12. You guys dropped back down to the [indy]WAC, got a better TV deal, but still can't elevate your program back to who you were in the MWC or the WAC!

    Obviously, it wasn't the "TV" part that did you in. It was your "ineptitude", and your "failure to adapt" to the changing tides.

    P.S.: TCU had the same TV deal as we did as well. Would you say they're now "better off than" or "worse than" they were while they were in the WAC, C-USA, and/or the MWC?

  • Carpboy ,
    June 25, 2019 2:13 p.m.

    Oh are they done already? Ok I was going to ask if you were hungry to go to lunch but those sound good :)

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    June 25, 2019 1:40 p.m.

    Sooner,

    BYU rose to prominence in the WAC, and that was impressive.

    BYU dropped in the MWC, the Mountain TV deal was a complete disaster and it was BYU being off TV for a while that killed what they had built in the WAC. Then a coaching debacle with tons of problem players happened and Bronco needed to clean it all up. I like independence, however Bronco didn't and you can't succeed in something that you don't like.

    I don't think that BYU has completely fallen from all grace, there is a fanbase and ability to grab attention. ESPN says that one thing they like about BYU is at any point in time they can stand up and make a ton of noise. And although many BYU fans are disloyal, a lot of disloyal fans bandwagon when BYU is doing well.

    I still think that the ESPN TV exposure is a great thing for BYU sports. While I wish the November schedule was better, there is no bigger start in college football than what BYU takes on each year in early games.

    If BYU gets on a roll the fans come out of the woodwork, personally I'd rather have a stalwart fanbase but you get what you get, but the key is that BYU needs to win just a few more games each year and then respect builds.

  • BYU Sports Nut Heber City, UT
    June 25, 2019 1:31 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii?
    "These days............nobody wants or cares about BYu"
    Really... Then why do you keep posting on these articles.
    I, for one, care deeply about BYU athletics. It has been an agonizing 8 years watching one of our own, Kyle Whittingham, build a program at Utah which has been able to beat BYU when BYU has been down. It is time to change that.
    Whether or not BYU plays in the AAC, the PAC, the Big, The SEC or stays independent, it really doesn't matter to me.
    I live and breathe BYU athletics and you should too.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 25, 2019 1:20 p.m.

    FYI RedRockUte: Since 2011, Utah had played 80 teams from "power" leagues. That averages to exactly "TEN" P5 teams per season. The indy-WACers have averaged 4.9 -- i.e. less than HALF of what Utah has played.

    FWIW, Utah had also amassed a higher W/L pct. against them as well.

    Edge: Utah.

  • steve24/7 Sandy, UT
    June 25, 2019 1:06 p.m.

    Man, I sure hope we don't join the AAC. That would be a bad decision on many levels.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 25, 2019 12:45 p.m.

    AFCoug:

    "TV money - Not sure what new ESPN contract will say but AAC just signed yearly payout of nearly $7M per school. That is what was rumored BYU's old contract was in the neighborhood of. Way more than MWC or WAC. ($1M). Still far behind P5."

    The indy-WACers current contract isn't worth "nearly $7M". It's worth "nearly $4 million per year" -- so sayeth ESPN. If AAC teams are really earning "nearly $7M"...

    1. Then they're making nearly twice as much as ybU-p
    2. Won't want to add you. An $84 million contract = $7M/school in a 12-team league. It's also = $7.64M/school in an 11-team league. So by NOT adding a 12th team, each school gets to make over $636K/yr.

  • RedRockUte St George, UT
    June 25, 2019 12:37 p.m.

    BlueHusky said:

    "Utah won't schedule a P5 OOC game (or hasn't yet)."

    How about Michigan twice, winning both? You should remember that because BYU fans such as yourself came unglued that the Utes did not schedule BYU those two years. 😁

    And Utah has Baylor coming up in 2023 and 2024. The reality is that even without OOC P5 teams, Utah plays nine P5 teams EVERY SINGLE YEAR. And BYU considers itself a "P5 Equivalet". So are they?

    On the other side, BYU played five P5's last year, and plays just four this year. Isn't that a far cry from nine EVERY year?

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 12:33 p.m.

    mabramso - Orem, UT "BYU is NOT going to join, unless that offer is truly spectacular"
    That attitude has cost BYU an invite to the PAC, Big12 twice, and maybe soon the AAC.
    Humility will take BYU much further. Enough with the "we deserve spectacular".

    "simply not worth sacrificing the money and exposure BYU currently gets with ESPN."
    BYU rose to national prominence in the WAC, with few (or none) games on TV.
    BYU fell from national prominence when the started their ESPN contract.
    Crazy thought, but maybe the way for BYU to regain relevance is to get OFF television.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 25, 2019 12:24 p.m.

    one-liner:

    "When meaningful change happens BYU is in a great position."

    Classic cougie, fact-free narrative. When change happens, the programs who will be in "great position", will be the programs that are ALREADY well positioned. And you're not. You're a midmajor. That's poor positioning.

    I honestly can't see why you indy-WACers are always assuming that there's something inevitably on the horizon that'll elevate you -- a program that can't seem shake your midmajoryness -- above programs that are already way ahead of you. It just makes no sense.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    June 25, 2019 12:19 p.m.

    Nothing draws 65TossPowderPuff to the keyboard quite like a comment from a Ute fan. I've come to the conclusion that 65TossPowderPuff despises Ute fans more than he loves ybU-p. Whatever floats his boat I guess.

    If UConn leaves the AAC, Army will be first team that league looks to backfill their space. And if Army declines, they'll look to UTSA, So Miss, or UMass. Beyond that, I figure the AAC would prefer to remain at 11 than to add SUNY, ybU-p, or any other C-USA teams. The indy-WACers won't be joining the AAC, but not because they "don't want to". It'll be for the same reason why they won't be joining the Pac-12, the Big 12, the BigTen, the ACC, the SEC, and the MWC: because they can't! They won't be invited.

  • mabramso Orem, UT
    June 25, 2019 11:52 a.m.

    BYU is NOT going to join the AAC any time soon, unless that offer is truly spectacular (and that is not going to happen). The benefits of joining the AAC are almost nil. Sure, they get some automatic scheduling, and a SLIGHTLY better than zero chance at a NY-6 game. But in spite of 3-4 pathetically weak teams on BYU's independent schedule each year, they are doing just fine overall. And if you actually look at what bowl games AAC teams go to, they are generally as pathetic as the ones BYU routinely goes to, EXCEPT for that rare case that yields a NY-6 game.

    But a 1-loss BYU team will not go to a NY-6 game, regardless of their conference affiliation. That minuscule chance of going undefeated is simply not worth sacrificing the money and exposure BYU currently gets with ESPN.

  • SoonerCougar Herriman, UT
    June 25, 2019 11:27 a.m.

    No one cares about bowl games. The NCAA only cared about adding more and more to make money but ended up diluting them so that argument needs to go. No one cares about bowl games.

    Now if BYU wants a shot at getting into the Championship game they would have to join a "power 5" conference because we all know that no one from the group of 5 is getting in. So what is the best for BYU? Staying put, making more money and hopefully winning more games so that when a "power 5" is looking they are at the top of everyone's list.

  • Bobby Peru Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 11:18 a.m.

    BioPowertrain: "Think Bigger, like a national 12-team conference with schools like BYU, Miami, Nebraska, West Virginia, Hawaii, Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, USC, maybe Texas, etc. etc. There are schools who consider themselves national programs or who are ill-suited to their current conference who would go for it I think."

    What a great idea and example of thinking big. I'm sure that Nebraska, Penn St. and Michigan St. can't wait to leave are the Big-12 to travel all that distance to play BYU-P and Hawaii.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    June 25, 2019 11:01 a.m.

    NO way. Look at Utah they never play no one any good. Look at us we play at least 4 tuff teams this year and when Utah plays someone they cant never beat anyone good.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    June 25, 2019 11:00 a.m.

    "Since you are a real ND fan, what did you feel about the game ND played on a Sunday?"

    Which one and in which sport? I love them all, and so does God. He wants you to honor him by doing something you love 7 days a week.

    "BYU will always avoid scheduling any games on Sunday allowing athletes to choose what they want."

    Actually, scheduling on Sunday would give the athletes a choice, not the other way around.

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    June 25, 2019 10:52 a.m.

    If BYU didn’t “move the needle” for the Big 12 when they had good performance, it wouldn’t do so now with poor to mediocre performance. Stop talking about the MWC. The shoddy treatment it received from BYU in the past has burned that bridge, dislodged that foundation and swept the whole out to sea. No other conference would ever consider BYU. Try for football only admission forget “negotiating” as if you are a hot commodity. There are several geographically closer candidates that the AAC could and would consider. Holmoe miscalculated. Let’s move on if we can.

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    June 25, 2019 10:48 a.m.

    65,

    I don't scoff at an NY6 game.

    BYU football was a disaster 2 years ago. Last year we should have beat BSU but didn't and got creamed by USU.

    So I'm looking at the games and the results and while I feel that BYU is on an upswing - why are we focused on an NY6 game today?

    If BYU merits the chance to go to an NY6 I think that BYU will get into an NY6 - however I'm not sure that playing a MWC schedule is the way to do it.

    I don't think that the status quo in football will last too much longer. The SEC and Big10 and ACC have had their monopoly too long and it's going to have to adjust and change more in the coming years as well as the NCAA losing it's grip on some teams and rules. When meaningful change happens BYU is in a great position.

    As for now, just win more games!

    If we go into the MWC and play as we have been playing, we'll still miss out on the big bowl games, and we miss out on national TV - which is absolutely huge for recruiting.

    BYU needs top play in a way to make your comment relevant, if they move now it's not lateral, it's backwards in so many ways.

  • Just Wondering... Gilbert, AZ
    June 25, 2019 10:43 a.m.

    Outside of the CFP and the other NY6 bowl games, what is the relevance of having access to "better bowl games" do for you? Only one G5 gets a chance every year.

    What is really the difference between playing a mid-level P5 team in a above average December bowl game to playing someone like, say, Arizona in the Arizona or Las Vegas NFL stadium in September?

    I'd argue that Independent BYU plays 4-5 significant "bowl type" games every year, which is better than almost every year in the MWC/WAC seasons. Some of those are at home, which is even better.

    The AAC provides the possibility to get into an NY6 bowl, and that would be fun on the rare occasion that it might happen. But I'll take the year-in and year-out excitement of playing big name programs anywhere and anytime, particularly in NFL stadiums.

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    June 25, 2019 10:40 a.m.

    @BlueHusky - Saratoga Springs, UT
    June 25, 2019 7:39 a.m.
    I'm with CaliforniaCougar and others: "No no a thousand times no".
    . . . . . . . . . .

    I love independence. 60 teams or so go to bowl games. How many do YOU watch? Lets get real: exposure comes from playing anybody anywhere. Respect comes from winning your share from anybody anywhere. Beating AZ and Wisconsin last year on the road was good. Being at those games is better.

    . . . . . . Consider Utah. They play PAC12 and nobody else (but BYU). Utah won't schedule a P5 OOC game (or hasn't yet).

    BORING
    = = = = = =
    You used to tell Ute fans that BYU was a P-5 equivalent. Now you're saying that Utah plays no OOC P-5 schools. If BYU isn't an equivalent P-5 Utah should drop them from their schedule and schedule a "real" P-5 OOC team. Is that what you're saying?

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    June 25, 2019 10:40 a.m.

    realND,

    About Sunday play - when BYU says no Sunday play due to religion the other schools act much like people do with my business when I ask if we can wait until Monday, they respect it.

    Individual choices don't dictate the school or church policy.

    Since you are a real ND fan, what did you feel about the game ND played on a Sunday? Given that the Vatican is constantly looking to honor God on Sunday by promoting businesses and other services to be scaled back in Christian tradition - what did you think about ND playing a game on a Sunday?

    If you are really a ND fan, let's hear your thoughts about ND.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 25, 2019 10:35 a.m.

    I'm stunned that some BYU fans scoff at NY6 bowl games. Those games are recruiting gold. The reason utah and BSU have elevated their football programs is because they played in and won multiple BCS/NY6 bowl games. As the interest in chamber of commerce bowl games wanes - the interest in NY6 bowl games has soared.

  • Squirtle ,
    June 25, 2019 10:27 a.m.

    @THEREALND - Mishawaka, IN
    June 25, 2019 9:37 a.m.
    @Texinut

    "And before anyone mentions 'no games on Sunday', the NCAA has done well with BYU in that respect in the past. "

    And before anyone mentions 'no games on Sunday', Latter-day Saints have done well competing on Sunday in that respect in the past. It's not a religious requirement that stops BYU athletes. It's a school policy.

    If a BYU starts to balk at playing on Sunday, all any P-5 would need to do is point to what Latter-day Saints have done in the past and ask, "If they can do it, why can't you?".

    ----------------

    This has been discussed before. Sabbath worship is a personal thing and as such, many who are LDS have chosen to work on or play on Sundays. Doing so has not specifically broken any commandments or rules and they still would qualify for all the blessings of full membership in the church.

    But BYU is a church sponsored school and scheduling games on Sunday would compel individuals to play on Sunday even if they personally would choose not to. For this reason, BYU will always avoid scheduling any games on Sunday allowing athletes to choose what they want.

  • CKS007 Clearfield, UT
    June 25, 2019 10:21 a.m.

    East Carolina? Tulsa? Tulane? Temple? yea those teams on a regular basis will get the fans excited.

    Both the MWC and the AAC have very good teams, and very bad teams. If BYU is going to join a conference that is not P5, they might as well join the Mountain West. This way fans can see teams BYU has a history with. Plus it won't be a burden on the student-athletes.

    If there is a P5 shake up around 2025, most of the top teams from the MWC and AAC will have consideration. I'm not saying that the P5 greed will take any more teams in, but they will have consideration. I actually wouldn't be surprised if a few P5 teams become available for the MWC and AAC to pick up.

    BYU/Gonzaga + a Texas school or three in the Mountain West would be just as good, if not better, as the AAC with less geographic hassles. The decision doesn't have to be made now. Wait until 2025 to see what happens then pull the trigger.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    June 25, 2019 10:11 a.m.

    @Terry

    "The AAC was better than the Pac12 in both Football And Basketball last year"

    If we say it enough times it will eventually become true!

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    June 25, 2019 10:09 a.m.

    Nothing draws a utah fan to the keyboard quite like a story about BYU football. I've come to the conclusion that utah fans despise BYU more than they love utah. Whatever floats their boat.

    As much as I want BYU to join a conference and compete for a NY-6 bowl game - I just don't see it happening with the current regime. Bummer.

  • Terry Sandy, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:57 a.m.

    The AAC was better than the Pac12 in both Football And Basketball last year and about on par even before that. BYU needs to convince the AAC and BSU, Air Force, SDSU or Ut St. to go with them to make 14 (possibly 16)and create a more truly West division. This would gut the MWC and make the AAC more on par with the other P5's that would truly become the P6 at that point with a much bigger gap for the remaining G4s. They still need to negotiate for the Big12 in a few years when that contract comes up, but they could just as easily do that from the AAC, especially if they have success there and go to some bigger bowls. Earlier game times get way more eyes on TV also, so more exposure out east does not hurt. Lets do this.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    June 25, 2019 9:37 a.m.

    @Texinut

    "And before anyone mentions 'no games on Sunday', the NCAA has done well with BYU in that respect in the past. "

    And before anyone mentions 'no games on Sunday', Latter-day Saints have done well competing on Sunday in that respect in the past. It's not a religious requirement that stops BYU athletes. It's a school policy.

    If a BYU starts to balk at playing on Sunday, all any P-5 would need to do is point to what Latter-day Saints have done in the past and ask, "If they can do it, why can't you?".

  • AFCoug Colorado Springs, CO
    June 25, 2019 9:32 a.m.

    7. Travel - only 3-4 games would be played back east a year. That is what BYU does in independence at times.

    8. Exposure- East coast games watched at East coast times means more eyeballs on BYU football. Fewer 830PM mountain time kickoffs (1030 in the east).

    9. Maybe you convince AAC and ESPN, to expand to 14-16 schools adding Boise, USU, Air Force, SDSU. Make 3 or 4, 4 team divisions and play within division every year and one 2 teams from other divisions. Would make all other P5 conferances obsolete and provide more chances for AAC to be on tv all day long.

    10. Conferance championship game. Can you imagine with format above championship game being rotated each year between Florida (Jacksonville or Tampa) and California/ Nevada (New Rams or Raiders stadium).

    Although likely a pipe dream a BYU add along with top MWC teams would significantly increase AAC strenght in the college football world.

  • AFCoug Colorado Springs, CO
    June 25, 2019 9:32 a.m.

    If given the chance BYU should move to the AAC. Here are the reasons.

    1. Scheduling- so much easier

    2. Bowls - tie ins with better shot at New Years Day and playoff

    3. Winning-although BYU plays better competition with Independence their best years are as part of a conferance and when they are a 1 or 2 loss team they get far more national recognition then a tough schedule with 4-6 losses.

    4. BYU travels so well on the east coast. BYU fans come from all over to watch BYU play.

    5. Best non P5 competition is in AAC, not MWC.

    6. TV money - Not sure what new ESPN contract will say but AAC just signed yearly payout of nearly $7M per school. That is what was rumored BYU's old contract was in the neighborhood of. Way more than MWC or WAC. ($1M). Still far behind P5.

  • bronco SPRINGVILLE, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:25 a.m.

    ""BYU has already been to the top of the Mountain unlike many other P5 programs that have not. ""

    "They took a chair lift."

    Nevertheless, BYU has been there done that dance at the TOP. We know what it is like while others can only dream about it. Independence is wonderful and has been fun to be apart. Sweet dreams friends.

  • Fear the Turtle!! ,
    June 25, 2019 9:16 a.m.

    @Brave Sir Robin - San Diego, CA
    June 25, 2019 8:40 a.m.

    "Serious question: Is anyone in the media (outside the usual Utah County shills) actually talking about BYU-P to the AAC?"

    Although I am more for a scheduling agreement than conference membership...the answer to your question is yes. Google "Who will replace UConn in the AAC" and see what articles and websites come up. The strongest four contenders from sources outside Utah are BYU, Army, Air Force and UMass in that order.

  • stanfunky Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:14 a.m.

    Appalachian State likely has a better shot at AAC inclusion this cycle. They have made a Boise State - like rise from FBS and they fit geographically with the East or West in the AAC. BYU should go back to the MW and get their mojo back - then think about moving up.

  • Mind Baggage Bentonville, AR
    June 25, 2019 9:05 a.m.

    Brad, you have forgotten one key point-- scheduling 6 football games over 1,200 miles away is managable, but what about the rest of the sports? How often is BYU and its AAC sisters going to fly their women's field hockey team across the country? Or gymnastics or swimming? Will it be football only?

    Honestly, BYU should just hold its breath and wait for the BIG shift to happen in football. About 25 programs will break off from the NCAA and start their own league, the top teams from each major conference will band together leaving their conference members behind-- Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and probably Louisville will leave the ACC. The SEC will probably just convert to the non-NCAA system and kick out the programs that can't handle (or don't want to) paying their players-- probably Vandy, Missouri, Miss State,

    So whatever is left over will want to recombine. BYU will fit into this new NCAA program somewhere. The blue-chip recruits will all go to those ~25 "schools" and basically be hired minor-league mercenaries waiting for their bigger pay day in the NFL. Meanwhile, the rest of the college programs will return to the student-athlete.

    This has to happen soon.

  • Jacobiuntherus Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 9:04 a.m.

    If in any-way-shape-or form joining a conference means catering to any of the LGBTQ lobbying group's pressures I say absolutely not. Do not compromise principles for membership in a conference!

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    June 25, 2019 8:56 a.m.

    "BYU has already been to the top of the Mountain unlike many other P5 programs that have not. "

    They took a chair lift.

  • Squirtle ,
    June 25, 2019 8:50 a.m.

    Does anybody else find it curious that the new 8 year (reportedly) ESPN deal is all but done and set to be announced at media day and then abruptly it is not and Holmoe is out of town. This all happens at the same time that UConn officially notifies the AAC that they are leaving. The AAC just signed their big media deal with ESPN also.

    I'm not sure that BYU will join the AAC as a football only member. But I do believe the temporary hold on the ESPN TV announcement has something to do withh the AAC and some mutual scheduling partnership between ESPN, BYU and the AAC.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    June 25, 2019 8:40 a.m.

    Serious question: Is anyone in the media (outside the usual Utah County shills) actually talking about BYU-P to the AAC?

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    June 25, 2019 8:39 a.m.

    @BlueHusky - Saratoga Springs, UT

    Um, Michigan home and home wasn't a P5 team Utah scheduled? I mean, they are the winningest program in college football, and they finished ranked the last time Utah played and beat them. But ok.

    Utah typically plays 10, P5 opponents per yr. I'm not sure that mocking them for NOT scheduling yet another P5 opponent OOC is really justified. Especially from a fan of a team who has yet to play 6 P5 teams in 1 season.

    Independence has been an unmitigated disaster for BYU. I find it funny that so many BYU fans refuse to see that.

    Yes, BYU plays more P5 teams. And Holmoe has done a great job getting the scheduling down. Tough job, honestly. But since we are being honest, BYU also loses the vast majority of those games.

    And when BYU does beat a team like Wisconsin, those teams never end up finishing ranked. And it's not because BYU beat them. It's because they aren't very good the yr. BYU beats them.

    In Independence, BYU has yet to finish a season ranked in the AP. And they've only beaten one team who has finished ranked, USU in 2012.

    BYU just lost 15 games, in the last 2 yrs alone.

  • bronco SPRINGVILLE, UT
    June 25, 2019 8:10 a.m.

    BYU has already been to the top of the Mountain unlike many other P5 programs that have not. I am very happy that BYU is Independent and playing the schedules that we see them play now. I have season tickets and am thinking about flying out to Tennessee to see another exciting game against an SEC team. I wouldn't trade it for the world! I personally like being in the WCC for all other sports. I have watched the women sports do extremely well there and having Gonzaga and Saint Mary's to play is fantastic. All the teams in the WCC are awesome!!. I really do not understand the sports writers and why they think Independents is a bad thing . We actually are playing GREAT teams which does include Utah and Utah State.

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 8:09 a.m.

    "a national 12-team conference with schools like BYU, Miami, Nebraska, West Virginia, Hawaii, Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, USC, maybe Texas, etc. etc. There are schools who consider themselves national programs"

    My, the delusion is strong with this one!!

  • bgl Santa Monica, CA
    June 25, 2019 8:03 a.m.

    @ellis---I would like to see the AAC expand to 14 teams.

    You haven't really been invited yet, have you? Let's not do the realigning until BYU is actually invited to be part of this G5 conference. This has been the problem before--BYU wanting to call the shots even before being seriously considered, I mean.
    But seriously--This might be the best opportunity BYU will have in the next few decades to give themselves a scenario where they will play in a meaningful bowl game. They should take it. This probably isn't overall as interesting as a return to the MWC would be, but the MWC doesn't seem to be asking. Actually, neither is the AAC--
    ---but don't tell BYU fans that. They want to believe that Commissioners of both conferences spend their nights dreaming of powder blue clouds and happy Cougar fans filling the coffers.

  • I-am-I South Jordan, UT
    June 25, 2019 7:41 a.m.

    I’m okay if BYU goes to the Hawaii bowl every year for the next...well forever. Maybe I’ll get to go sometime or a few times. If BYU and fans can’t have national domination, I think consistent high performance and bowl game in Hawaii every year is a pretty good trade off.

  • BlueHusky Saratoga Springs, UT
    June 25, 2019 7:39 a.m.

    I'm with CaliforniaCougar and others: "No no a thousand times no".

    A conference 2500 miles away? Ever hear of jet lag? So we want to jet lag to the East Coast five or six times a year?

    Independence is working. This year, BYU has one of the best schedules in the nation. Wait! you say. The PAC12 is so much better!

    Not really. BYU plays PAC12 games every year. Adding a couple more versus bringing an Ole Miss or Virginia to town? You whiners don't realize that Independence is working! It is also fun to travel with the team. I've been to Ol' Miss, West Virginia (in Redskin Stadium), Navy in their house, UCLA, Washington, etc. I'm planning on Tennessee and San Diego this year.

    I love independence. 60 teams or so go to bowl games. How many do YOU watch? Lets get real: exposure comes from playing anybody anywhere. Respect comes from winning your share from anybody anywhere. Beating AZ and Wisconsin last year on the road was good. Being at those games is better.

    BYU should stay independent. Consider Utah. They play PAC12 and nobody else (but BYU). Utah won't schedule a P5 OOC game (or hasn't yet).

    BORING.

  • Ellis WEST JORDAN, UT
    June 25, 2019 7:28 a.m.

    Independence is nothing but 12 exhibition games. If you have nothing to gain, like a division or conference title, then you have nothing to lose. "There must be opposition in all things."

    Navy currently plays in the West division of the AAC. It is logical to move them to the East Division.

    I would like to see the AAC expand to 14 teams. The East Division could add Northern Illinois (who also have been to a New Year's 6 bowl in 2012) or maybe Army or Toledo.

    The West division then could add BYU and Boise St. Can you image BYU and Boise St playing the last game of the season to determine who goes to the Conference Championship Game? That is excitement!

    In a 14 team conference BYU would only have 1 road game to the Eastern time zone.

  • GJ Greenwood, IN
    June 25, 2019 7:16 a.m.

    Army Joining Navy in the AAC is the best bet. It's a geographical match too. BYU is not a good match geographically or any other way, and joining, should an invitation be extended, would do very little for them. This whole story is just news in search of significance.

  • Maximus Meridius Salt Lake City, UT
    June 25, 2019 7:02 a.m.

    Not sure that this would be offered. If so stay independent.

  • TexInUT Midvale, UT
    June 25, 2019 6:59 a.m.

    One other thought: I'd like to see BYU somewhere in a conference with ALL of its teams. A P-5 situation is good for BYU because many of its sports teams have done well in 'National Tournament' play. Yes, football helps fund the programs, but the rest of the Athletic Department needs a good 'home' as well.

    And before anyone mentions 'no games on Sunday', the NCAA has done well with BYU in that respect in the past. The golf teams have been allowed to play their 'Sunday' rounds on Thursday. Basketball, Volleyball, Softball, Baseball and Soccer always get slots to where they do not play on Sundays. If a P-5 starts to balk at BYU, all Tom Holmoe need to do is point to what the NCAA has done in the past and ask, "If they can do it, why can't you?".

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    June 25, 2019 6:57 a.m.

    Be patient Cougar fans. Notre Dame has been independent for 132 years and it wasn't always a bed of shamrocks.

    It's way too early to give up on your short term experiment. Sounds like the author of this article is looking for the path of least resistance to the high profile bowl games.

    Unlike 1984, in 2019 you have to play the best and beat the best if you want to make the CFP.

  • RedRockUte St George, UT
    June 25, 2019 6:47 a.m.

    Based on some of the comments in other threads, I'd say many BYU fans have already factored in a major bowl this year.

    Hope springs eternal. 😁

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    June 25, 2019 6:39 a.m.

    Everyone wants to be at the top of the heap, but very, very few are willing to pay the price it takes to get there. I strongly suggest byu is not willing to pay anything close to the cost of getting to the top. They, and their fans, just talk about it and delude themselves.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    June 25, 2019 6:26 a.m.

    mindgames - Aurora, CO
    June 24, 2019 10:05 p.m.

    2023-2024 still looks like the best option for real expansion for P5’s.
    -----------------

    That's true, but it won't offer anything for byu.

    As Rock says, that will never happen, partly because the same old baggage following byu will become an issue again.

    No Power Five is going to add a school fraught with political toxicity and potential fiscal punishments.

    Byu is going to be Indy for life, unless one of the G5s offers an invite. G5s are more willing because beggars can't be choosers.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    June 25, 2019 6:21 a.m.

    If they're offered AAC membership, byu would be fool to turn it down.

    They play 8 conference games. Why not play a league slate and continue scheduling 3-4 power teams per year? That makes for a pretty decent schedule. Plus conference title races, plus much better NY6 access.

    Or... you can continue to play only 3-4 P5s anyway, and then a slate of dogs.

    UCF, USF, Navy, Houston, SMU, Cincinnati (some good recruiting grounds there)... Or UMass, Toledo, Southeast Central State, Liberty and Wagner.

    Despite this obvious choice, there will still be a chorus of "No" s from certain fans who reject it simply because they're under the delusion that independence is on par with the Power Five.

  • nananana batman St. George, UT
    June 25, 2019 6:10 a.m.

    I've been saying for two years that I want byu to join the AAC. Perfect scenario would be bring Boise State as a travel companion then also add AF and Army. That way there's 16 teams and the commander and chief is all in the same conference. I would love to see that happening.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    June 25, 2019 6:09 a.m.

    Brad Rock: "Which means BYU is the sexiest choice (is that an honor code violation?) to fill the vacancy."

    Only in Utah County.

    Most reports I've read so far from reputable sports media say Army (to be in the league with Navy) and possibly Air Force (for the same reason) are "sexier" picks.

    Byu might be third best.

  • BioPowertrain Westland, MI
    June 25, 2019 5:21 a.m.

    Think Bigger, like a national 12-team conference with schools like BYU, Miami, Nebraska, West Virginia, Hawaii, Maryland, Michigan State, Penn State, USC, maybe Texas, etc. etc. There are schools who consider themselves national programs or who are ill-suited to their current conference who would go for it I think.

  • TexInUT Midvale, UT
    June 25, 2019 2:28 a.m.

    Here. We. Go. Again.

    Would being in a decent conference be good? I thinks so, but with the TV contract negotiations and the re-alignments around the corner, BYU needs to wait to get a better deal with a P-5. The idea of the Big 12 is still somewhat doable, but we need to package ourselves with another team that helps us get into a P-5. Convincing a school like Boise State (someone that has a following of its own and would be an area rival) or Cincinnati (a near-ish by rival for West Virgina with a decent TV market) could be inciting enough to get us in.

    Otherwise, I could live with being in the AAC. Is it a P-5? No, but with time it would offer BYU at least a slim chance of making it into a bowl game that matters...or into the National Title discussion (if we have that good of a season).

  • Odin Owns Ye All! Fountain Valley, CA
    June 25, 2019 2:28 a.m.

    No, no, no, no, no! One million times NO!!!
    BYU is FINALLY able to schedule a good number of interesting opponents on a regular basis, which wouldn’t have happened if BYU hadn’t gone independent, and there are people who not only want to give that up, but also want BYU to be tied down in a second-tier conference playing for a conference championship that nobody cares about and ultimately doesn’t mean anything, just because there’s an extreeeeeemely small chance that being in a second-tier conference might somehow give BYU a 2% better chance of occasionally being in a New Year’s Day bowl game?

    Yeah, I guess that makes sense...if you hate BYU football, or just college football in general.

    If BYU joins a G5 conference, it means that BYU has given up on football. Forever.

    I want better football, not worse football.

  • vasislos Holbrook, AZ
    June 25, 2019 12:34 a.m.

    Timing is sometimes not our best friend. Jumping now to get into a far away G5 conference might not be a good choice. Many predict that in 3 -4 years, as television and other contracts come up, that there could be some major realignment in college football. I would just as soon wait and see how that shakes out. Maybe BYU will/can do better, maybe not, but going into the ACC (and we actually have not been invited) would seal the deal early. I say wait and see.

    Of course, as we wait and see, BYU has to put up quality seasons in order to appeal to the P5 folks. Mediocrity and we will not be wanted.

  • CaliforniaCougar Lake Elsinore, CA
    June 25, 2019 12:14 a.m.

    The argument to play in a G5 conference is tiring. The big prize is a NY6 bowl against a P5 team. So what!! BYU plays more P5 games as an independent. Bowls are meaningless. G5 conference championships are meaningless. Independence offers much more opportunity to play a challenging schedule and not just one game in a baseball stadium at the end of the season that no one is watching.

  • JohnInSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    June 24, 2019 11:23 p.m.

    The word outside of the BYU-P echo chamber is that indeed an independent football school, with its own TV deal and proud history, has the inside track if the AAC replaces UConn.

    Yeah, Army would be a great fit!

  • utahute69 Laguna Niguel, CA
    June 24, 2019 11:21 p.m.

    Slow sports news day?

  • one liner Dallas, TX
    June 24, 2019 10:31 p.m.

    I still like independence. But having opportunities is a good thing.

    So, is this an opportunity?

    Kind of a push for a story before we know if it's real - but I do like the idea of bringing along Boise and possibly usu - however is that only football? The travel is hard if it's all teams traveling that far all the time, that's a big burden!

  • mindgames Aurora, CO
    June 24, 2019 10:05 p.m.

    AAC is an attractive choice if they are willing to increase to 16 teams and include at least Boise State and maybe Utah State. It would be a big step to joining a revamped Power-6 conferences. But in reality with the current 4, 5, or 6 P5 teams a year and three of those at home along with Boise State and Utah State each year I still like remaining an Independent. Tom Holmoe is doing a great job and I am confident he will check out all the options.
    2023-2024 still looks like the best option for real expansion for P5’s.