Harvard pulls Parkland grad's admission over racist comments

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  • Zabilde Riverdale, UT
    June 18, 2019 1:53 p.m.

    Geeksprimus, yet they not only admitted but gave a full ride scholarship to lackluster student David Hogg.

    Kyle Kashuv had the grades easy. Except many leftists were uncomfortable with his pro-gun/conservative stance and thus went digging for the ramblings of a kid.

    Stevo and Impartial, Trotsky was most definitely a liberal, well he was further to the left than even most liberals but he was a full on communist which is the natural extreme leaning of liberals. Well those that call themselves liberals today. Not classical Liberals who have more in common with today's conservatives than today's liberals.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    June 18, 2019 1:05 p.m.

    Perspective:
    This kid made racist remarks in a private conversation two years earlier.
    No one defends racist remarks, but they actually harm no one.

    Harvard has been proven to actually discriminate against Asian applicants because, otherwise, "too many" Asian-American citizens would get accepted to Harvard. This actually harms those who are discriminated against.

    The selective outrage is obviously because of the kid's politics. Shame on Harvard...for both actions. Pure hypocrisy on display.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 18, 2019 12:53 p.m.

    RE: "BYU uses “honor codes.” Harvard doesn’t? So what?"...
    ---
    Harvard has a honor code.

    Google "Harvard honor code"...

    All Universities have a Honor Code. Even LSU (A party school) has a Honor Code. They kicked several football players off the team and out of school last year for violating the Honor Code.

    BYU is not unique in having a Honor Code. Every University has one. Google it if you don't believe me.

    ===

    RE: "I care not how BYU picks their students. I cannot fathom why you’d care how Harvard accomplishes the same task"...
    ---
    Maybe people care because their not for "Discrimination". Ever thought about that?

    Let's do a test (using hypothetical situations).

    Not king neptune, but Say Harvard decides they won't admit students with parents who are registered Republicans... That OK?

    In case you thought that was OK (to ban Rs).... what if Harvard banned your kid because of their opinion or said something not politically correct?

    The point is... inside we care.

    Dismissing students because their opinion doesn't match yours... isn't right.

    Google "Bigot Definition".
    ---
    "A person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions"

    Even opinions on race?

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 12:52 p.m.

    @ Vermonter

    lets back up to the facts here. the young man was dis-invited for his racist comment not his stand on the second amendment. His views on the second amendment were already public and well known at the time he was accepted. secondly, racism does not only pertain to ones view on the Jewish community and to claim liberal are anti-Semitic is patently false.

  • The Great Helmsman Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 12:08 p.m.

    @Tek

    Why is it so hard for you to understand “private?” So Harvard makes up admission standards? It’s ALL made up, friend.

    BYU uses “honor codes.” Harvard doesn’t? So what?

    If Harvard used the phases of the moon to determine who gets in to their private school, why do you care? As long as none of my tax dollars goes into their admissions process, the King of Jupiter can pick their freshman.

    I care not how BYU picks their students. I cannot fathom why you’d care how Harvard accomplishes the same task.

  • T-money$$$ Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 11:34 a.m.

    The assumption that you can get away with saying the sort of racist comments this student did and STILL feel entitled to get into your dream school is white privilege at its finest.

    Please excuse me while I find my violin and shed some tears.

    Yes, teenagers say and do stupid things without realizing the consequences. Color me surprised.

    I have no doubt that this kid will learn his lesson and still get into a good school, but let's give his Harvard seat to someone else a bit more deserving.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    June 18, 2019 11:16 a.m.

    @Joe Hill.
    I don’t know of any prominent conservative that condones anything resembling anti-Semitic comments. Those tend to come from the liberal side these days.

    To clarify, my social conformity comment had to do with Kashuv’s public support for the 2nd Amendment. This is the real problem Harvard has with this young man. Harvard is merely using the social network comments as a pretext to reject Kashuv.

  • MGoodwin Murray/USA, UT
    June 18, 2019 11:16 a.m.

    So he apologized but still ended up being thrown under the bus regardless, if that's the case then what's the point in apologizing? Make no mistake he said some awful stuff, but time and time again it seems that people will beat you down with your mistakes no matter how sorry you are. Granted there's some things that restitution needs to be made, but if there is no way to make up for your misdeeds, then why apologize? If you're already going to be shunned, then you might as well embrace it, and besides, there's plenty happy to offer you a home with the rest of the dregs, outcasts and other unfortunate souls.

    Apologize if you mean it, but never do it to save yourself from the mob, it just encourages them.

    And for the people constantly demanding apology, just remember, if you beat down someone asking for mercy people will very quickly stop asking for your mercy or granting any when you ask for it in return.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 18, 2019 10:53 a.m.

    Here's a question that's a little tangential to the actual topic...

    Why is it OK to totally cuss out Republicans or say despicable things about people on the right (especially if you consider them "alt-right"), but if you say something even slightly disparaging about a certain race... you are terrible?

    Is there a double-standard today?

    It seems it's OK for one group to say degrading things about another race (white people), but not for this 16 year old to say what he said (which he apologized for).

    It's OK for one group, but not for other groups?

    One group has church leaders like Rev Wright who make a whole career out of saying outlandish and insulting stuff about the other race (and never apologizes for it)... but a 16 year old makes a mistake and apologizes for his mistake... and that's not acceptable.. Why is that?

    Double-standard?

    If it's OK for one and not the other... is that not a double-standard?

    Are we equal? Or are some groups allowed/encouraged to make derogatory comments about people of the other race?

  • samhill Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 9:48 a.m.

    "....Harvard's admissions dean thanked Kashuv for his candor [in his unequivocal apology for his stupid remarks from years earlier] but said the school's admissions committee, which makes the final call on applications, had voted to withdraw his offer."
    =======

    I'd love to see some of the dumb and thoughtless remarks made by the folks in Harvard's admissions office during their teenage years.

    While their remarks are unlikely to have been archived on the Internet (the Internet was probably not even available when they were teenagers), my educated guess is at least some of them made blabberings at least as presumptuously stupid and arrogantly insulting as those made by this guy.

    This 1984-like Big Brother judgmentalism is just one of the negative side-effects of our new social media age. I can hardly wait until the still-developing deep-fake technology is put into full effect. Imagine what the current Puritans can come up with once they get their hands on that!!??

  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    June 18, 2019 9:47 a.m.

    so many people do not understand that their actions result in consequences

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 9:44 a.m.

    @vermontor
    "social conformity." I seem to remember a time when both liberals and conservatives agreed that racism was a bad thing that should be shunned by society. The comments on these boards suggest that conserrvatives see racism as something to be embraced. Is that what people are saying?

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    June 18, 2019 9:16 a.m.

    An interesting case study. The 2019 version of Harvard appears to reject this young man due their emphasis on public image and social conformity. Interesting (and relatively new-found) concepts for perhaps the most prestigious university in America.

    In contrast, I think BYU would have no trouble accepting this young man if he agreed to abide by the honor code due to its emphasis on the Christian principles of repentance, mercy and forgiveness.

    As a Second Amendment-supporting school shooting survivor, Kashuv’s presence would actually further diversify most major university student bodies (and most definitely Harvard’s).

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 9:02 a.m.

    Vanceone said:
    "In other words, Harvard gave in to the online social mobs demanding this kids head. Note that no one knows what the "racist" statements were. Just the mere accusation is enough to yank his admission."
    In other words vanceone doesnt know what he/she is talking about, again.
    His racist statement are public. This wasnt mere accusation.

    Water rocket said:
    "I also wonder if Harvard recognizes the constitutional right of freedom of speech?"
    Making it clear that water rocket doesnt.
    It may come as a surprise, but Harvard isnt the government so his freedom of speech is intact. He can even go on more tirades about the Jews and the n_____s like a good conservative and the government cant touch him. But Harvard doesnt have to let him in.

    RiDal added:
    "The culture wars have taken a decidedly disturbing turn: the Left is using every power at their disposal to silence, deplatform, un-person, ruin, and drive out of business anyone who does not conform to the "liberal narrative"."
    As if some private business is REQUIRED to give you a platform.
    I demand Fox News give me an hour everyday!
    It always amazes me on how poorly conservatives seem to understand freedom of speech.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 18, 2019 9:00 a.m.

    First Amendment just means you have the right to express yourself (whether the government or others like it or not). You can get up and say what you want (nobody can stop you). But it doesn't mean your neighbors, your boss, or the people at your University have to accept anything you say and can't disagree or do anything about it.

    Exercising our free speech rights has consequences. This is one. But there are many more places in life where just saying anything you want no mater how much it hurts others is not accepted.

    It is ironic that activism by one survivor is acceptable (and if you've heard his obscenity and insult laced speeches they are very over-the-top and way out there), but his speeches are acceptable (to Harvard). While much milder speech by the other survivor is not acceptable. But it's Harvard's right to decide what is acceptable to them, and what is not.

    Harvard legally can't limit free speech. Meaning if he wants to get up on campus and say something... they must let him. But that doesn't mean they can't kick him out of school for what he said.

    If someone Harvard doesn't like comes to speak.. they have to let him. That's what first amendment says.

  • Daedalus, Stephen Arvada, CO
    June 18, 2019 8:31 a.m.

    We would not be discussing this article if this kid's school prevented him from spewing his racist and anti-Semitic speech. It did not.

    What his defenders are arguing is that he should be immunized from the -consequences- of his freely-exercised speech.

    A laughable premise, made more so by the serious but misguided attempts imply this is a Constitutional issue.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    June 18, 2019 8:23 a.m.

    @The Great Helmsman:
    "Harvard is private. They can admit or deny whoever they want. Just like a school I know of in Utah county."

    Harvard's honor code only mentions academic integrity. So they are making up their honor code on the spot. That opens up a huge opportunity for biases and prejudice to get mixed in.

    BYU does have an honor code, but they don't look to see if someone violated the honor code before they came to BYU. In investigating violations of their made-up on the spot honor code, Harvard is way more draconian than some BYU honor code officer looking at license plates in the parking lot of a bar.

    I believe that BYU also has a religious exemption so they can have an honor code. I didn't think that Harvard does. If they don't then they could be in massive trouble with Massachusetts for discrimination.

    If we are going to get all religious about this then we should consider that perhaps this individual has repented. I refer to Isaiah 1: "If your sins be as scarlet they will be white as snow."

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    June 18, 2019 8:04 a.m.

    It is really funny to read these comments. We have things like demanding private enterprises not use things people say as a criteria for admission or hiring? Since when does a private entity not have the right to use someones public statements to decide if they will or will not be disruptive of the social fabric that these universities strive to develop. What you write on the web is a statement about who you are, how you view others, and what you believe in. Private institutions have every right to use this information in their vetting process.

    Then you have statements that only liberals fight others speech and rights. Remember when Dick's Sporting Goods stopped selling assault weapons and made minimum age 21. Remember the calls for boycott? Remember when United pulled its sponsorship of the NRA.... and the calls to boycott United? Or boycotts of Levi's and Disney because they support LGBT rights that were called for?

    I feel bad for this kid. His youthful indiscretion has cost him, which is harsh. People grow and mature. He made these remarks at 16. I doubt though long term this will hold him back. There are lots of options for this young man... he will be fine

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 7:12 a.m.

    @lost in DC
    conspiracy theories? really lost?

  • Freiheit Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 7:03 a.m.

    Rocket
    " I also wonder if Harvard recognizes the constitutional right of freedom of speech?" The first amendment bars government from interfering with speech or press. It does not say that various entities and organizations have to accept or approve whatever spews from the mouth, or fingers, of individuals, whatever their abilities or motivations. I'm pretty sure Harvard understands this.

  • Daedalus, Stephen Arvada, CO
    June 18, 2019 6:27 a.m.

    The rush to rationalize and portray this guy as the victim is but one more example of "conservatives' defining deviancy down in the age of Trump.

  • The Great Helmsman Salt Lake City, UT
    June 18, 2019 12:30 a.m.

    Harvard is private. They can admit or deny whoever they want. Just like a school I know of in Utah county.

  • toosmartforyou Kaysville, UT
    June 18, 2019 12:25 a.m.

    @ shamrock Exactly when did they change their admission policies from racial quotas and "underprivileged" students to "the best and brightest?" That must be a very recent change, as in perhaps next year?

  • silo Sandy, UT
    June 18, 2019 12:14 a.m.

    @water rocket

    "I also wonder if Harvard recognizes the constitutional right of freedom of speech?"

    Harvard rescinding admissions from a student has exactly ZERO to do with the 'constitutional right to free speech' because nowhere is the government involved.

    Harvard is a private institution. They have no ability to prevent potential students from making racial statements, but they absolutely have a right to prevent that student from attending their institution.

  • Frozen Fractals Paducah, KY
    June 18, 2019 12:12 a.m.

    @water rocket
    "I also wonder if Harvard recognizes the constitutional right of freedom of speech?"

    Probably. As a reminder the First Amendment says:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

    and Harvard is a private university, not a public one.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2019 8:58 p.m.

    @Abbaton:

    Why would you assume that the U of U wants to grant admission to an applicant who used the N-word repeatedly? Colleges are trying to attract the best and the brightest; they're not reform schools.

  • water rocket , 00
    June 17, 2019 8:57 p.m.

    If I read the story correctly he is being denied admission due to a racial comment he allegedly made two years ago. Hmmmm, I wonder how many of their professors have made "comments" in their life times that may not fit today's politically correct criteria? I also wonder if Harvard recognizes the constitutional right of freedom of speech?

  • geekusprimus Little Elm, TX
    June 17, 2019 7:33 p.m.

    Thousands of students with perfect academic records apply to Harvard and other Ivy Leagues and get denied. It really is that competitive. Some admissions official probably caught wind of this incident online and recognized that this kid probably won't fit in very well, regardless of how penitent he might be, so they took this little bit of extra information and handed the spot to someone else.

    Is it the decision I would have made? Maybe not. That being said, I don't have a reputation to uphold.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2019 7:21 p.m.

    lost in DC - "The real reason for the revocation is probably his gun rights advocacy."
    Harvard became aware of his comment less than a month ago. The young man offered an explanation, and wants immediate reinstatement. Harvard is more cautious, and pulled his admission for THIS year.

    Harvard will continue to monitor his online activity, and welcomes the young man to reapply in 2020. If "the real reason" had anything to do with gun rights, Harvard would not be open to letting the young man reapply in a year.

  • Sutton Cedar City, UT
    June 17, 2019 6:53 p.m.

    Vanceone - Provo, UT

    "Meanwhile, David Hogg, also a Parkland "survivor" (though he hid several buildings away and was never in danger)"

    This is a lie, and has been proved false many times. It has no more truth then saying Hillary Clinton is running a pedophile ring in a basement of a pizza parlor in New Jersey, or that Sandy Hook never happened... why do you lie?.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    June 17, 2019 6:48 p.m.

    @ Impartial7 "This is a "liberal" thing? So, you're telling me that when the guy yells and posts things ...."

    Yes, it is a Liberal thing, because it has nothing at all to do with what a 16- year-old stupidly posted on a private chat between friends. It has to do with the selective and biased investigation and then persecution of a person based on their now political positions. You don't see anyone having their college admissions rescinded based on insults against Christians or White people, did you?
    In fact, that would qualify one to be a Democratic Presidential candidate.

  • Abbaton Sandy, UT
    June 17, 2019 6:39 p.m.

    Forget Harvard - their loss. Come West young man and apply for the U of U. You'll enjoy Utah much more! Plus we have a football team.

  • SJ2 Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2019 6:27 p.m.

    "Post online and there is a permanent record that can follow you throughout life. The internet is copied many times over across the world and posts do not disappear"

    I agree. I wish all teachers/parents understood the importance of teaching children from a young age that pretty much anything done online is forever (and is probably saved and tracked-- EVEN WHEN ADULTS aren't watching). In college, one of my friend's freshman neighbors was arrested/sentenced to prison for 4 years because of things he was caught doing online. We were all left in shock because he was a smart, kind young computer wiz who spent hours helping others with their computer. He thought he knew all the tricks to keep things anonymous... and ended up with his life turned upside down.

    Parents, PLEASE teach your children that anything they do or say online can be tracked, saved or screenshot-ed ... and that even encryption and tricks to keep things "anonymous" should never be trusted. Stories of online posts and screenshots of private messages coming back to haunt even young people years later are common.

    Technology is amazing, but also full of real dangers that every young person needs to understand.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    June 17, 2019 4:57 p.m.

    @stevo123 - Driggs, ID
    June 17, 2019 4:34 p.m.
    @ Lost in DC, Trotsky was a liberal?"

    No, but facts don't matter, it fits his narrative. I'm pretty sure that he has no clue to what the guy said or posted. Let's see how many conservative colleges like Houston Baptist, Liberty, BYU, Texas A&M, etc, reach out and welcome this "person".

  • stevo123 Driggs, ID
    June 17, 2019 4:34 p.m.

    @ Lost in DC, Trotsky was a liberal?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    June 17, 2019 3:59 p.m.

    Imp7
    I don’t care to read what he wrote. He said it was stupid and does not represent who he is now.

    If it was anti-Semitic, as you say, it definitely does not represent a conservative viewpoint; anti-Semitism is praised and elevated when coming from liberals like ilhan omar trotsky.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    June 17, 2019 3:50 p.m.

    We all the right to make our own choices but not decide the consequences of them. Before you go posting the N word or other derogatory statements on line, realize some people and institutions will hold you accountable for your actions.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    June 17, 2019 3:47 p.m.

    @RiDal - Sandy, UT
    June 17, 2019 2:59 p.m.
    The culture wars have taken a decidedly disturbing turn: the Left is using every power at their disposal to silence, deplatform, un-person, ruin, and drive out of business anyone who does not conform to the "liberal narrative".

    Yeah? This is a "liberal" thing? So, you're telling me that when the guy yells and posts things the D-News won't let me say. Talks about killing Jews. White Power, consistently uses the "N" word, etc. That is liberals denying his "conservative voice"? That kind of anti Semitic racist garbage used to be attributed to ignorant bigots. Not political platforms. But, you're saying it's a conservative viewpoint? No wonder the GOP is hemorrhaging members.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    June 17, 2019 3:19 p.m.

    @RiDal
    "The culture wars have taken a decidedly disturbing turn: the Left is using every power at their disposal to silence, deplatform, un-person, ruin, and drive out of business anyone who does not conform to the liberal narrative"

    Interesting claim that it's the 'left' using every power, when Vanceone just a few comments before advocated for the government to seize the tens of billions of dollars of Harvard's endowments because he disagrees with their right as a private organization to reject admission due to racist tirades.

    Are you calling Vanceone a 'leftist' now?

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    June 17, 2019 2:59 p.m.

    The culture wars have taken a decidedly disturbing turn: the Left is using every power at their disposal to silence, deplatform, un-person, ruin, and drive out of business anyone who does not conform to the "liberal narrative". No dissent is allowed. It is exactly vision of a distopian, though-controlled, future that Orwell warned against in '1984'. Just imagine if the Left were controlling the Presidency and justice department right now. People with traditional moral values are prevented from even speaking out, yet all sorts of perversions are encouraged to have 'pride'.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    June 17, 2019 2:51 p.m.

    The real reason for the revocation is probably his gun rights advocacy. Had they really revoked his admission because of his prior comments, they would not have asked for an explanation. So much for their motto meaning “truth”

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    June 17, 2019 2:50 p.m.

    @ Vanceone

    "Well, what's happening to Oberlin should happen to Harvard and the rest of the Ivy League... all SJW central, all far, far more concerned with your allegiance to the left rather than educating you. They should be shut down, their endowments seized and used to expand the ROTC at some deserving state school. Why not--from each according to their assets, to each according to their needs, right? Utah State's ROTC sure could use an infusion of cash out of Harvard's endowment. Socialist Redistribution should be encouraged right?"

    Alexa, please translate.

  • Stenodude7174 St. Louis, MO
    June 17, 2019 2:43 p.m.

    @Vanceone -"In other words, Harvard gave in to the online social mobs demanding this kids head. Note that no one knows what the "racist" statements were. Just the mere accusation is enough to yank his admission."

    Pretty easy to find his post online. It's not really open to interpretation. It comes off like drunken ramblings, but anyone who would post that isn't welcome at my school.

  • Elsleuth Valencia, Ca
    June 17, 2019 2:39 p.m.

    Post online and there is a permanent record that can follow you throughout life. The internet is copied many times over across the world and posts do not disappear because you hit the delete button. Use wisdom.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    June 17, 2019 1:52 p.m.

    What a great life lesson for this young man to learn that actions have consequences.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 17, 2019 1:43 p.m.

    Ouch... proof going over-the-top with your angry comments and activism (even private) online can come back to hurt your long term future. Going to Harvard would have been so good for this young man. Whether he disagreed with the admission dept's standards on race in his youthful exuberance or not.

    Be careful what you say online kids. I always check facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and online comments when I'm considering people for a job. It can follow you forever. Be careful what you say.

    People say and do things they wouldn't want their parents or boss to see and then post it all the time. You would be surprised.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    June 17, 2019 1:39 p.m.

    In other words, Harvard gave in to the online social mobs demanding this kids head. Note that no one knows what the "racist" statements were. Just the mere accusation is enough to yank his admission.

    Meanwhile, David Hogg, also a Parkland "survivor" (though he hid several buildings away and was never in danger) is a complete non-intellectual but he gets a full ride scholarship to Harvard because he's on the "right side" of politics.

    Well, what's happening to Oberlin should happen to Harvard and the rest of the Ivy League... all SJW central, all far, far more concerned with your allegiance to the left rather than educating you. They should be shut down, their endowments seized and used to expand the ROTC at some deserving state school. Why not--from each according to their assets, to each according to their needs, right? Utah State's ROTC sure could use an infusion of cash out of Harvard's endowment. Socialist Redistribution should be encouraged right?