The Trump administration has brought some faith-based volunteers to court as part of a broader crackdown on illegal immigration.
The article did not address how many people are found dead in the desert. Those
are the people they find. How can we humans let other humans die of thirst.
Some of those people pay with their life savings and are told not to bring
personal items other than water with them. The coyotes make it sound like an
easy trip when it can be life threatening. Some coyotes will even abandon
people in the desert to fend for themselves with or without water or shade in
the height of summer when temps can reach 100+ degrees. People can only live
for 3 days without water. He is doing the most humanitarian deed possible in
these situations. Not all illegals are not bad guys.
This is where the United States is now. This is who we are. With all the
problems this country currently faces, Congress does nothing about immigration.
Fire them all. This is what we are fighting over? We have lost all direction and
decency. Instead of complaining about people coming into this country, let us
look at all the leaders on all sides who are failing us.
The wall is not enough.
Mercy cannot rob justice and remain righteous.Enforcing laws does
not show a lack of compassion, on the contrary, it teaches people right from
wrong, and helps them down the path of righteousness.
65toss,Fleeing Israel into Egypt was like going from Utah to Kansas. Both
"countries" were part of the Roman Empire.They were escaping
the rule of Herbert to live under Kelly. Trump would be the president either
way.And, the way refuge should work, they went back home when the
Charity is not restricted to giving things. It is the pure love of Christ.
"Obeying the law of the land" sometimes sounds a lot like the Pharisees
I'm just glad that Egypt didn't arrest Joseph, Mary and the Baby Jesus
and return them to the murderous tyranny of Herod the Great.
Christians In Name Only
I really don't want to hear what any person who supports Trump has to say
about 'following the law.' He has trampled our constitution and our
laws and it will take quite some time to recover from the damage he has done to
are we still talking about the hordes of illegal workers bound for trump
@David"The way you write, Democratic leadership is fully on board for
immigration reform and security. Have you been listening to Democratic
leaders?"Have you read what I wrote?I was pretty explicit:
pro-immigration congress-critters (both Democrats *and* Republicans, including
the *Republican* President W. Bush) have tried to *compromise* with
anti-immigration congress-critters.Not "fully on board".
Not even "current leadership". Just "pattern going on for
decades".Bottom line is that over the last couple of decades we
have miles and miles of new fences, now have "walls", have dramatically
ratcheted up border patrol, made the TSA an insane agency, have made everything
within a hundred miles of a border a zone where border patrol can pull over
anyone and question them, and so-on. The border-security types have gotten a
*lot*.What have the reform types gotten?But sure. The
reformists are the ones unwilling to work with the security folk. Despite the
voting records and public deals (that the security types welshed on) saying
otherwise.You want this to be about Pelosi, but it's not.
It's not even about Trump. It's about a pattern.
reriding "The basis for the charge against Warren as described in the
criminal complaint include providing food, water, shelter and clean clothes to,
as well as talking to, two undocumented migrants."The food,
water and clothes were irrelevant to the charge of harboring a person here
illegally or transporting. Does a persons religion give them a
right to break the law. (felony)What would Jesus do? Tell them to
follow the commandments, do not steal, lie or covet.
Providing food and water: humanitarian.Providing overnight lodging
and not notifying authorities: breaking the law. Charity is a
Christian virtue. But "charity" means voluntarily giving your own
resources. Following the law and not abetting criminals in your society is
also a Christian value.
So sad to see the liberal's perverting the cause of religion to weaken our
Nation.America is under dire threat. Our Leader Donald Trump knows
that if we want to keep our Country a safe strong and Christian Nation, we need
Wall.The democrates will not build Wall, so these people die in the
Desert. That is the price of American Freedom.
So as fully expected, those who object to respecting freedom of conscience in
declining to attend a party or promote a message they find offensive, are
suddenly very much in favor of letting this fellow break the law regarding
immigration. These are the same people who demand the full penalties of law be
brought to bear on a man for peacefully riding an ATV up an existing trail whose
closure was being legally contested.Yet again, we see a lack of any
real guiding principles other than, "I want things the way I want
them."I do not believe anyone should be charged with a crime for
providing legit humanitarian aid to those in need.Actively
encouraging and aiding violation of our immigration laws is a different story
than merely helping those who have gotten themselves into some trouble while
violating our laws.I believe freedom of/from speech and association,
as well as religious freedom all protect photographers from having to attend
events whose message offends them. I do not believe these freedoms should permit
forming mobs outside those parties, or funerals, and shouting fighting words at
the celebrants or mourners, respectfully.
@Take the Red Pill and Cultural Revolution its not a zero sum game. we can
and should take care of or citizens and show compassion towards asylum seekers.
the polygamy comment is not only a straw man argument but also
EscherEnigma - Ridgecrest, CA---@The ArticleSo according to
Warren and his lawyers, and this "religous liberty" argument, it should
be legal for *him* to give water and directions to illegal border crossers, but
if I (an agnostic/atheist) did the same thing, it would be illegal?---During the Vietnam War some number of young men claimed
'conscientious objector' status when required to appear for induction
into the US military.In The United States v Seeger(1965) the Supreme
Court found that determining condition is:---[a] sincere and
meaningful belief which occupies in the life of its possessor a place parallel
to that filled by the God of those[who had routinely gotten the exemption].---So, if you have a sincere and meaningful belief that those in
need should have the help they need for their immediate situation, it would seem
this decision would be applicable.Of course you may have to go to
court, prove your sincerity, but there is hope that the government will have to
drop charges, or judge required to give a jury this criteria for defense.
EscherEnigmaThe way you write, Democratic leadership is fully on
board for immigration reform and security. Have you been listening to
Democratic leaders? They want open borders, elimination of ICE, no detention,
all social safety net benefits for illegals, plus voting rights. Does this
sound like an immigration system or a sieve?I understand you are
pointing out the hypocrisy of Republican leadership. I get that. I agree with
you. I am frustrated that immigration reform has failed for 40 years. This is
on both political sides, and both sides have failed. But at this moment, which
political leader is trying to do anything about the border crisis?Pelosi? Schumer? I think Trump is the main driver on this. I
don't like his style, but he is actually trying to get things done.
It seems that the left always want illegal aliens to receive special treatment
that regular US citizens do not get.They want polygamy to be
illegal, even when it is founded on sincere and long-standing religious belief.
But, any excuse to help illegal aliens should be legal.It is clear
they don't like their fellow citizens, and want to replace them with
The same people who say they should be able to discriminate against gay people
because of their religious beliefs say prosecute these people for their
Spokane Ute - Spokane, WAJune 13, 2019 10:58 a.m.----65TossPowerTrap - Salmon, IDJune 13, 2019 9:07 a.m.Hmmm,
I'm just wondering what Jesus would do.---------Obey the law of
the land; just like the Mormon Church does. I hope that helps.---Perhaps the a Mormon version of the Bible is different, in particular the
various stories depicting Jesus' activities, include such things as working
on the Sabbath, in the form of taking some wheat from a field, and rubbing it
enough to chew the kernels(while the KJV version uses the word "corn",
corn is a New World plant, so the plant most likely would be wheat or
barley.)'Work' on the Sabbath was prohibited in Judea, as
it still is for observant Jews today. Jesus uses the examples of healing the
sick, and an ox fallen into a pit, both being emergencies which would override
the general prohibition.Giving water to someone in the desert should
not be a crime ever. Giving directions in the desert to places for food and
water should never be a crime.In an era where 'Freedom of
Religion' has come to mean 'freedom to discriminate and hate', it
is heartening to hear stories of someone's faith actually helping others in
@The ArticleSo according to Warren and his lawyers, and this "religous
liberty" argument, it should be legal for *him* to give water and directions
to illegal border crossers, but if I (an agnostic/atheist) did the same thing,
it would be illegal?I think I see a big problem with trying to make
this a "religious liberty" issue.@David"Can't
the Left see a need for an immigration system that creates order, security, and
benefits everyone?"Y'all made this argument back when we had
President W. Bush in the white house. He supported reform, but anti-immigration
congress-critters demanded more border fencing before they would support
reform.They got their fencing, and then welched on the reform.This repeated under President Obama.And it's already
repeated under President Trump.Fact is, there have been multiple
rounds of increasing "security" at the border in the last two decades,
but the promised reform has never happened.But sure. It's all
those mean democrats that stopped Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnel from proposing
immigration reform in 2017 and 2018.
The terror in central america is largely due to the US insatiable appetite for
drugs. This spawned the drug cartels. These people are the victims of our
intemperance yet we refuse to take responsibility for our actions and want to
coop up the victims in the mayhem we created. Until we get our own house in
order perhaps we should show a little more compassion.
It's not clear from the article, which is becoming more and more common in
the DN, what actually happened there. Did he give them directions away from
immigration officials, or toward them? Seems like that would be a critical
piece of information.
This is like prosecuting a starving mom for stealing bread to feed her family.
If the law is inconsistent with ethics and compassion, a decent person opts for
doing the good and decent thing. Remember: "As you did it to one of the
least of these my brethren, you did it to me" and "But the greatest of
these is charity."
I have a question for those of you who is number one priority is in honoring,
obeying, and sustaining the law
Did you feel so strongly when President
Obama was in office?
65TossPowerTrap - Salmon, IDJune 13, 2019 9:07 a.m.Hmmm,
I'm just wondering what Jesus would do.---------Obey the law of
the land; just like the Mormon Church does. I hope that helps.
It would be nice if all these people who say they would assist illegal aliens
would actually take care of them. This includes housing, medical care, and
paying for private school for their children so they don't overwhelm the
public school system.Why don't Pelosi, Romney, and Schumer open
the gates to their properties to these illegal aliens? Pretty clear Pelosi
cares more about her tennis balls, as she has a fence around her tennis
court.Those who want to help the illegal aliens always want to use
someone else's money to do it, not their own. Thus, it is a clear case of
manipulation, not reason, logic, or truth.
Does anyone really know the ins and outs of immigration? Both republicans and
democrats call for reform. What is the process now?
Why didn't the "Christian" offer to fly the illegal aliens to
Canada, where they have a better safety net? Why don't all these people
trying to manipulate our emotions put up the money to bus all these illegal
immigrants Canada?If these people were really looking out for the
immigrants, they would send them to Canada.It shows they are only
interested in destroying the United States, not in help the illegal aliens.Emotional manipulation is not a good reason for anything.
Good for these volunteers. I believe Jesus would be giving assistance to these
people who are suffering.
There is nothing wrong with helping people, even illegals. Give them water,
food, clothes if you choose, and point them back to Mexico. It is not against
the law to help people with provisions; it is against the law to help them come
into this country illegally. So simple....
If you really want to stop migrant deaths, support Trump and Brian Kolfage.If you support "recycling" children and the drug cartels,
support the people trying to manipulate your emotions.
He could have easily called border patrol.Human smuggling is not in
the Bible. Helping drug cartels "recycle" children and rape women is
not in the Bible. "Render unto Ceaser" is in the Bible.
I can understand the government's position--they are trying to establish
some control along the border. When you have 100,000+ illegal immigrants
entering the country every month, it overwhelms communities, societal support,
agencies, medical providers, economies, security, etc. There must be a system
to process and settle migrants. Migrants should come through the front door,
through our immigration system. But when you have people smuggling illegal
immigrants in, the government doesn't know if those illegal immigrants are
human traffickers, drug smugglers, terrorists, or simply individuals looking for
a better life. Regardless, there must be order along the border.I
can also understand the humanitarian side of this topic. As Americans, we are
the most giving country on earth. And conservatives are the large majority of
charitable givers....we have compassion for others in need. I would give
directions and aid to an illegal immigrant and would be arrested. I could not
see someone in need of water, food, medical care and not help...Can't the Left see a need for an immigration system that creates order,
security, and benefits everyone?
Hmmm, I'm just wondering what Jesus would do.
Would he have a stronger argument for a religious freedom exemption from the law
if he left a wedding cake and a flower arrangement in the desert instead of
water, food, and clothing?
Some appear to be in a preaching mood today, citing the teachings of Jesus.Here's one. Matthew 22.The king invited his friend to a
wedding. They blew him off. (Jobs Americans won't do? Low birth rate?)So, he sent invitations out into the countryside, looking for folks who
wanted to come. (Our generous immigration policy?)But one man showed
up without a wedding garment. (Unlawfully present?)The king had him
bound hand and foot and carried away into outer darkness. (Deportation?)It is moral to expect people to enter in through the door, not climb up
by some other way. We accept about a million of the legal ones each year, mostly
relatives of people here. (That isn't in our best interest.)And
for our largess we are supposed to open our borders to anyone who wants to come
in, even if they don't follow the rules?Let's cut out the
phony virtue signaling.
I'm a Christian and a Latter Day Saint who believes in honoring, obeying
and sustaining the law. I am grateful for President Trump and the brave men and
women of the Border Patrol who are doing all they can to insure that our
immigration laws are upheld and who are working night and day to keep us safe.
I cant imagine hating a race/nationality/skin color so much as to pass a law
like this but then I am not a right wing extremist or a politician who feels the
need to pander to that group.
It is estimated that around ten thousand migrants have died while trying to
cross the Mexican border in the last twenty years or so. The people who are
dying are human beings, whose only crime is that they are trying to find a
better life for their families. When our children and our
grandchildren and our great grandchildren reflect on this chapter of American
history, I suspect they will find it painfully difficult to understand our
collective indifference, or even hostility, towards these unfortunate fellow
human beings.The prosecutors in Arizona who took this to trial
should be ashamed of themselves.
As is commonly the case with Deseret News articles these days, this story cries
out for more balance.
I'm confused. I missed the part where the guy was arrested for giving water
to an illegal. He was arrested for helping them enter the country undetected by
suggesting a route for them to take. He got caught. It's not about water at
all.So...is that fake news?On another note, it's
too bad Bob Bennett isn't in the senate. He could have presented a bill to
indemnify this guy. He had experience protecting a faith group from aiding,
abetting and harboring illegals. I'd like to see an InDepth story on how
that came to be and the actual language used.
These days, anything and everything is a "religious freedom" issue!
"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me
drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in."As a practicing
Christian, I side with these brave volunteers.
RRB, did you read the article? "The basis for the charge
against Warren as described in the criminal complaint include providing food,
water, shelter and clean clothes to, as well as talking to, two undocumented
@Seldom Seen Smith straw man = poor argument
Look at that "big beautiful fence"...SMH! What a scar on our landscape
and our nation's soul. Christians supported the wrong candidate. Period.
So it had nothing to do with giving them water.
No water = no compassion = no Christ in our heart.
No border = no country