Park City would be expected...but Heber? Oh my. Their pioneer founders must be
rolling over in their graves.
Of course, it would be Park City to do this... our most liberal city. Not a
good representation of the majority of Utahns.I say let LGBT do as
they will but don't shove it in our faces and expect everyone else to jump
on your bandwagon.
Very few people choose to be gay. Most gay people love their families, their
parents, their brothers and sisters and their friends very very much and just
want to be loved, they do not want to hurt the people that love them. God made
people gay, no one would choose to be that way and to be viewed as bad and sick
and to be cast out by those they love. It is not a choice for most gay people
and God has been making people this way for a very long time. Maybe only God
knows why. So...it's not for people to judge. It's for us
to try to emulate Jesus and to be kind, compassionate, loving and accepting of
people who are kind and loving, even if they are different than yourself. Let
God be the judge. I choose to support people who are good and kind, to live and
let live and to believe THAT is what Jesus tried to tell us many years ago.
Judge lest not thee be judged. Be kind. Love. Be gentle with others.
Agree with most of the comments here... it's time to elect a new mayor.
Moral values are becoming extinct in America.Wrong doing is becoming
acceptable if it's appealing. Sad! But our country will not
look the same in twenty years.
My LDS brother is gay but wouldn't step foot in any parade . He has a
partner and they are married. They live in a nice neighborhood, and are great
friends with all their neighbors. An LDS family next door are some of their
really good friends. He hates that people are expected to accept all deviations
of being gay as he he wonders how they can be accepted. I took my wife to San
Francisco for vacation. We got there to find out it was Gay Pride Weekend, We
took the Trolley down town and saw some of the parade. In any other city many
of the people would have been arrested for publicly open sex, some of the
actions by people in the parade, (too rough to post here), and children right in
the middle of it all, it was more than just ADULTS ONLY. I changed my opinion
about supporting anything I saw. It wasn't just LGBTBQ.... it was
demented and deeming but it was cheered. Gay is one thing but what I saw was
more and extremely offensive. In almost any other city it would be totally
illegal and should be . But a gay parade with out the sexual demos, is super
fine with me, let them march. if I said what I saw it wouldn't be
The issue at it’s core, and the liberals in this country left created it,
is that we aren’t allowed to be offended.... by anything. If it’s
offensive to one, it should be offensive to all and needs to be condemned. See
how the unintended consequences of creating a victim society works both ways to
promote a lack of acceptance and understanding. Sad!
Scientific evidence that "gay" is genetic.Fact: Several studies of
identical twins shows very few gay twins have a gay twin. If gay was genetic,
and identical twins have identical genes, tough to make a case one is
"born" this way.Nope. It's not genetic. Nothing to fly
a flag for. But much understanding and kindness is always in order by EVERYONE
including people gay people say disagree with them. Sadly, the gay discussion is
now one way -- not only accept a person's gay life, but celebrate it and
embrass it. One way street. No tolerance.
@ broken arrow....Yes, President Nelson did visit the nightclub and express love
and understanding, but I didn't see him wearing a rainbow hat or shirt. I
don't have harsh judgement for anyone and I don't think flying a
rainbow flag is necessary. Besides, as Macfarren said, what does it symbolize.
To many, the rainbow flag symbolizes "it's my way or the highway and
you are going to be tolerant of me or else." We should be tolerant of
everyone and I don't need a rainbow flag to force me or remind me.
@counter intelligence “I don't want shrill people speaking for
me and i don't want science silenced or co-opted by zealots.The
science speaks for itself. I suggest starting with the "Advances in
Genetics, Volume 86" chapter 8 specially details the research on the genetic
underpinnings for orientation. Their is a Stanford paper addressing the genetic
underpinnings of sexual orientation but it does also notes that environment can
influence its expression. I have no interest in dismissing your personal
experiences as feeling genuinely true for you and this is clearly an emotional
issue for you but from an objective scientific and legal basis your arguments
about others orientation does not seem to hold true. as to your comment about
shrillness I would hardly call hanging a banner shrill.
@Tolstoy -Yes; We are both free to have our own opinion; which includes my
right to question your facts.No; science has not determined that
orientation is biological - although gay activists engage in a lot of wild
desperate speculation, using bullying to compensate for lack of fact. Courts are
irrelevant to the discussion of scientific truth (and are routinely wrong)Again; some recent studies have indicted a stronger link between abuse
and orientation than biology (which is actually more consistent with my
personal and anecdotal experience)i am homosexual. i did not choose.
But the more I live, the more i realize that my "orientation" involved
a lot of early inaccurate assumptions.I don't buy the illiberal
activist dogma and i don't want shrill people speaking for me and i
don't want science silenced or co-opted by zealots. And yes: I am entitled
to that opinion.BTW: Political flags are not always related to
political parties. A Black History Month flag may not be political, but a Black
Lives Matter flag definitely is. The rainbow flag is political because
activists have made it so - it is tied to support of a particular dogma more
than to an event
@counter inelegance both the scientific community and the courts (several
times) have determined that sexual orientation is an immutable trait. We are
free to have your own opioion but you are not free to make up your own facts.
@Furry1993 -You mock @Macfarren -for responding to @shamrock"There is no definitive scientific consensus that 'gayness' is
an 'inherited trait,' and just because it is stated repeatedly by
cultural influencers, does not make it true."Then you proceed to
provide absolutely no facts, just your feelings - ironically proving
Macfarren's indictment of Social justice bullying to be absolutely true.The fact is: while there is some evidence of biological markers - it is
not clear whether they are cause or effect and they're inconsistent. There
is actually a stronger link between abuse and orientation than biology and
orientation. But we cant talk facts can we - your feelings (not anyone
else's) are whats important.
@Macfarren - June 12, 2019 12:28 a.m.@shamrockThere is no
definitive scientific consensus that 'gayness' is an 'inherited
trait,' and just because it is stated repeatedly by cultural influencers,
does not make it true.Words are landmines. Watch your step.------------You really believe that? Okay -- identify for us the
specific date and time you CHOSE whatever sexual orientation you may have. Not
what you decided to do what that inherent sexual orientation you may have --
the day/time when you decided deliberately what it would be.If you
are honorable and honest, and your body "works" the way the rest of ours
do, you never made that deliberate choice. You have always had an inherent and
innate attraction, generally to one or other of the sexes-- something that you
never chose to happen. It's just always been there, discovered as you got
older in life.At least that's how it worked for me. I've
always been a totally straight woman (I'm 70 years old now) and I NEVER
chose my orientation -- I had it before I even knew what it meant.Orientation isn't chosen -- it just is. Same as hair color, skin color,
etc. Just part of the way Heavenly Father made us.
@worfI prefer to live in a country where individual and minority
rights and dignity are still respected.its that simple.
@shamrockThere is no definitive scientific consensus that
'gayness' is an 'inherited trait,' and just because it is
stated repeatedly by cultural influencers, does not make it true.Words are landmines. Watch your step.
@mountainlocalOne can support people, without supporting their
messages. But that is not what the rainbow flag truly symbolizes, does it? The
loudest voices of the LGBT+ crowd and their supports keep moving the goal posts.
First it was simply to be tolerated. Then it was civil unions. Then same-sex
marriage. Then protected class status. Then having sex-change operations paid by
taxpayers. BSA being forced by fiat to accept homosexual adult leaders.
Elementary teachers sharing their transgender transitions with students not old
enough to even spell puberty. Today those who believe or dare to
speak their opinion or religious beliefs against the idea (not the people) of
homosexual relations or homosexual marriage are regularly threatened with
ramifications of penalty and silencing by both private industry and government.
Does the rainbow flag truly mean love and inclusivity for all? Yes,
only if you support the LGBT+ movement. But if not, then beware of the mounting
policing by the 2%.
A flag represents acceptance and pride of the majority.If the
majority of people finds something offensive and distasteful, than the flag
should not be flown.It's just that simple.
For those who are so bent out of shape about this, please look to the example of
President Nelson. His recent meeting with the owner of the Pulse nightclub in
Orlando speaks volumes. He went out of his way to show love, understanding, and
acceptance. Maybe his example should be our guideline rather than reacting with
@Orson of Woods Cross:It's always difficult to have an
oppositional child, but your daughter's behavior is not unique to gay or
trans kids. It might help to look at it this way: If your daughter were
straight and defiant, would you attribute her conduct to a "straight
agenda," or believe that her problems were caused by her heterosexuality?
Macfarren:So would a supporter of the 1st amendment mean that the
supporter must find that each particular religion is normal, mainstream or
acceptable? What it means it that the government cannot make it
illegal and there are certain protections under the laws from citizen attack. If
you are not safe in your community, not much else matters. Right? Did you read the article? The woman that paid for the flags just seemed like a
mom trying to help her daughter feel safe and wanted in the world. Isn't
that what moms do?
Here is the issue: Despite the representation of the rainbow being
all-inclusive, the LGBTQ agenda is anything but. Their actions speak louder than
their words. The LGBTQ truth is that it is inclusivity is limited to those who
support or agree with them. If you have an alternate viewpoint, then
you must be destroyed. Ask the many bakers, floweriest, photographers,
restaurants, etc., etc., etc. How sad is the near demise of the Boy Scouts
of America, which for more than 100 years taught boys to become leaders. Individuals and private business are free to express their support of
one cause or another, and suffer the consequences, or to remain neutral /
supportive of all and reap the rewards. Because of the LGBTQ protests and legal
attacks on people of religious integrity, I choose not to patronize any business
with a LGBTQ rainbow banner. I quit reading the Tribune and have stopped
watching Fox 13 news. Hey Fox13: It is not news when someone “comes
out”, or has a gay hamster. However, Heber, you are a
community. When you choose to allow a vocal minority to offend a silent
majority, you become a co-oppressor.
@Mr.Norris and everyone else claiming that LGBTQ+ people are “throwing
their sexuality in everyone’s face” with their flags and Pride.I’ll let Captain America (Chris Evans) and James Spell explain it
to you: “I’m straight. I like being straight. A big
reason why I like being straight is that I’ve never once experienced
bigotry for my sexuality. I didn’t have to fight for my right to marry the
person of my choosing. I didn’t have to concern myself with being beaten
or killed because others didn’t accept who I wanted to sleep with. I
didn’t have to stay closeted out of fear, or worry about the reaction of
my family, friends or colleagues by coming out. I never got called a slur for
being straight. No one told me I’m going to burn in hell for being
straight. There aren’t any programs where I could be sent to be tortured
into being straight. There aren’t any countries I can be put to death
simply for being straight. There’s nothing I ever had to fight for,
or struggle against, because I’m straight. And therefore, there’s
isn’t any reason to take pride in it. Grateful for the privileges I get?
Sure. But Pride? I don’t see it.”
@Misty MountainAbsolutely false. Chick-fil-a ... attempt(ed) to deny gays
the right to marry._________So what? 70% of black voters voted Yes
on Prop 8! Do you support a public ban on black people? Of course not. But
Chick-fil-A does deserve a ban? Sorry, but your logic fails here.In
a free society, others' opinion will differ from yours. And others'
opinions might be despicable to you, and what groups or agendas they support
might offend you. This exists in a free society, and attempts to ban groups
because of what they support isn't a free society. Totalitarians do
that.Maybe, just maybe, some people who aren't fully 100%
behind the LGBT agenda do so because they saw the militant agenda that would be
created from the LGBT agenda. They saw that Leftist school teachers would harm
children by confusing them on gender, and that they would allow boys to use
girls lockers and restrooms. They saw that business owners that didn't
support the LGBT agenda would be sued, etc. Many people might otherwise be more
supportive of LGBT if this extreme agenda didn't exist.
I encourage all commenters to answer a simple question: When was the last time
the LGBTQ community did anything in the public realm to which your response was
"Good for them"?
How exactly have these flags harmed anyone?
Add an 'S' at the end of LGBTQ, etc. and you will get my support,
otherwise the celebration is too exclusive. Let's celebrate human pride.
@mountainlocalYes, Mormons have been persecuted, as well as members
of all types of religious groups through history. But I don't recall
kindergarten teachers telling their students that they were changing their
religion and reading books to them about it in class, and telling them it was
okay for them to change their religion too.And even if they did,
that is still a far cry from telling them that boys can be girls and girls can
be boys. This was never about tolerance. This was always about using
every means possible to convince the 98% (and their children) that the
lifestyles of the 2% should be considered normal, mainstream, and religiously
@Fly Fisherman, most trans kids express their perception of their own gender
before they even start kindergarten. I'm not talking about a bio boy who
wants to play with dolls, but with a bio boy who actively insists that he IS a
girl. And he doesn't flip back and forth after a day or a week of making
this statement. But I think you have a point about athletics. A
trans woman who went through puberty as a male is going to have an unfair
advantage over biological women. And I'm not sure what a resolution of
this issue would be other than having separate teams for trans athletes.@Orson, I can understand your shock and unhappiness in that your child
did not turn out as you expected. It is not easy to accept a child who seems
to be deliberately trying to hurt you--but please try to understand that the kid
is coping the best way they can, even though the behavior seems crazy and
self-destructive. For what it's worth, I never met a trans adult who was
sorry that they changed their gender--only sorry that they waited so long.
@Oatmeal asks,"What is the animosity of the Left towards organized
religion and traditional moral values rooted in?"Since many of
us Lefties are members of organized religion, I'm wondering where you get
your information from. The animosity is not toward organized religion or
traditional values per se. The problem is that some of the people who belong
to religions have decided that they have the truth and have no problem using the
political process to force other people to adhere to their particular
religion's version of truth. @Fly Fisherman writes,"There have been several attempts to ban Chick-fil-A in a few locations.
All because the owners choose to exercise their First Amendment rights and
believe in traditional marriage." Absolutely false. Gay people are
ardent supporters of traditional marriage--for straight people. But
Chick-fil-a's company funded Winshape Foundation, did far more than
"believing in traditional marriage". They made grants to groups such as
Alliance Defending Freedom, which supports re-criminalizing homosexuality and
were actively engaged in attempts to deny gays the right to marry.
If these flags help prevent even one person from feeling totally alone and
rejected its worth it.
How many people do you know that have been physically or verbally assaulted for
being straight? How many people do you that have been targeted by the law for
being straight? Personally, I know none. Now read about reports of
attack on a London bus, or in this article, about gay teens being physically or
verbally attacked and fleeing town. Then times that by dozens that aren't
reported. So a question becomes, do you really believe in the
America that stands for freedom and justice for all? Should law abiding people
be allowed to live in a society without fear of retribution? Remember the LDS church's own history is one of being persecuted,
targeted, physically attacked, eventually leading to the killing of the prophet.
That is why the saints fled West. Now that it is the dominant culture, it is
easy to forget lessons of being the minority. Do we want to inflict the same
wounds and damage? Read about the Stonewall Riots, Harvey Milk, etc,
and it's fairly clear that even in this country, simply being gay made one
a target. So as Brigham Young said, "He who takes offense when no offense is
intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a
The decision was applauded by the ACLU. This is the group that has and will
oppose any effort to show support for religion and will support virtually any
T-money -" Is there any logical reason why pride should be viewed
differently?"Yes. Unlike those who support Christmas, Memorial
Day, Thanksgiving, Breast Cancer Awareness etc...... "pride" advocates
have been shown to publicly subject their opponents to harassment, intimidation,
vandalism, racial scapegoating, black listing, loss of employment, angry
protests, violence and gross expressions of anti-religious bigotry. Prop 8 was
just one prime example of that. The "gay" rainbow flag may
be a symbol of "tolerance" and "acceptance" for some, but for
others it is a representation of hate and homofascism. And understandably so.
Proof of the contentious nature of this issue, and of the leftist activism
opposed to the inspired principles of our founding documents, can be found in
the comments that have been censored.Q.E.D.
There have been several attempts to ban Chick-fil-A in a few locations. All
because the owners choose to exercise their First Amendment rights and believe
in traditional marriage. Bakers, photographers, etc. are being
punished because they choose to exercise their First Amendment rights. To many,
this is a major distortion of the meaning of "discrimination", and is
now a serious threat to freedom of speech and expression. Now, there
appears an agenda to introduce children in elementary schools the idea that they
can choose their gender. Will boys be able to identify as girls and be allowed
to use girls locker rooms and restrooms? It appears so, if this agenda advances
more. Already, biological males who identify as women are unjustly competing in
women's sports, distorting the biological women's right for fair
competition. There are plenty more examples of politically-charged
issues with this subject. Please don't tell me that there
isn't a real, controversial issue with the current LGBT agenda. Saying it
is all about "love" and "acceptance" is flatly false. The Rainbow flag represents this highly controversial agenda. Don't be
surprised that some people resist it.
Laura,My daughter rebelled at 13, had secret heterosexual relations, began
to drink and smoke and swear and lie and steal and cheat and did drugs in her
teens, lying about all of it. I heard from principals, police, and parents. She
never spoke a word of truth. When she asked to live with an aunt, I let her go;
then she lied and told everyone I had thrown her out because she was gay. Then
she got a girlfriend who ruined her life. Now my daughter thinks she is a guy
and thinks taking hormone shots changes nature. Nothing bad about
any of it, to use your sarcasm. Just trying to normalize such behavior confuses
children and the unwary/ignorant, whether you have (fixed) cats or not.LGBT activists in Utah (and elsewhere) that were born LDS often agitate for
the LDS church to change its doctrines; they want sin called sweet; they want
homosexual marriage in the temples and in heaven; they want priesthood and
prominence; the list goes on and on. No one can tell me there is no
gay agenda in Utah or pressuring the Church. Activists push it all the time in
the media, social media, and elsewhere.
When all of this first started, there was a single parade on a single day
called, 'Gay Pride Parade.' Later, the word 'Gay' was
eliminated to be more palatable to all people in general, calling it the
'Pride Parade.' Sometime thereafter it was turned into an entire
'Pride Month' and we now have rainbow flags flying from embassy
windows and lining quiet little Utah streets.It's just like
Beto said this week. Simple 'tolerance' is no longer acceptable, and
society needs to 'embrace' these values as a whole.Tolerance was never the goal. It was always about 2% dictating what 98% should
So Heber has a "city policy that lets residents apply to hang personalized
banners on city lamp posts." Well, if Heber is dumb enough to open the door
for activists, they'll have to live with it for now. Banners on city lamp
posts do imply city endorsement of the message. But I would suggest shutting
the door, turning your city lamp posts into a means of protest or of advertising
for alternative lifestyles or political views is a bit silly.
T-money$$$,"Give it some thought, and you will see that the
animosity towards the "LGBT agenda" is rooted in bigotry rather than
politics or first amendment issues."What is the animosity of the
Left towards organized religion and traditional moral values rooted in?
When it comes to religion society tells us to keep it to yourself but why is it
that when it comes to sexual preference these people feel the need to inundate
society with their lifestyle choice? Keep it to ourself please.
@ReadMineFirst, I absolutely understand where you are coming from. My daughter
and her wife have chosen *that* lifestyle. They live in northern California in
a 90 year old house with solar panels on the roof. Although they both have
graduate degrees, they have chosen to work in the comparatively lower paying
jobs of elementary school teacher and director of a small nonprofit. They have
a Little Free Library on the front lawn and a 100 year old peach tree in the
back. They keep of their property and volunteer at the local animal
shelter--the place from which they adopted their two (fixed) cats. They carry
their own bags with them when they shop at the local farmers' market and
they support political candidates who prioritize human services over tax
cuts.It's hard to imagine that anyone would favor such a
"lifetyle". And I can certainly see why you cannot accept or condone
The gay agenda has long been loudly proclaimed: To achieve total cultural
superiority and to destroy Christianity in particular. Now, not all,
nor likely even many, LGBT people feel that way, but the ones pushing these
kinds of things do. In ancient days, when you conquered a place you
tore down their flag and put up yours. That's what this is: an attempt to
fly the rainbow flag as "superior" and "we rule, you do not.
We've won!" The Rainbow flag is a flag of oppression, cruelty, and
hatred towards those who do not "tolerate" LGBT actions, by which
tolerate means "Totally accept and participate in." Bob Hope
is on record as saying "They've legalized gay marriage in California.
I'm leaving before it becomes mandatory." And that is the goal: to make
it mandatory, eventually. We already see the rights being stripped from
Christians all over the place: the loss of freedoms of speech, of assembly, and
Biden is now pushing a bill to force churches to change their beliefs and
practices. If we are going to fly a flag, let's fly either the
American Flag or the Title of Liberty, which of course would be completely
opposed to the rainbow flag.
City banners and public signs have always been displays of seasonal
celebrations. I have seen banners from Peach Days to Breast Cancer Awareness
Month to Days of 47 along with other seasonal displays for things like Memorial
Day, Christmas, and Thanksgiving in various Utah towns along the Wasatch Front -
many of which are paid for with tax dollars. Is there any logical
reason why Pride should be viewed any differently?Give it some
thought, and you will see that the animosity towards the "LGBT agenda"
is rooted in bigotry rather than politics or first amendment issues.
@Lou Montana:Thanks for asking why I don't like the
"rainbow flag". Just my own personal feelings here...to me it
represents inequality, pride and even contention. It's saying, I'm
different, I'm better, you have to accept me and my lifestyle. I
don't accept or condone the agenda and lifestyle of the LGBTQ community.
If pro-choice folks created a pro-choice flag, I wouldn't like that either.
Call me simple minded but it just goes back to basic right and wrong for me.
The LGBTQ+ community wants to be supported and viewed as normal. I wonder if
they give the same courtesy to people with other beliefs and sexual
orientations. For example, do they support the freedom to practice polygamy?
@Orson wrote,".. a publicity stunt promoting the gay
agenda."@Meckofahess wrote, "The sooner the
LGBTQ community mellows out and stops putting their agenda in our faces the
sooner people will be more accepting and less judgmental."@Jacobiuntherus wrote, "In fact, all this LGBTQ agenda promotion
just harms the LGBTQ cause" @gatsby wrote,"That
flag..represents an agenda that I do not support"@NoNamesAccepted wrote,"...before some truly nasty, offensive
groups promote their agenda just as the sexual minorities have been allowed to
do.."You five all know something I don't. Apparently some
gay people gathered together and voted to push some nefarious agenda that @
gatsby doesn't support and that is in @Meck's face. But what does it
consist of? The only "agenda" I've ever heard of says that gays
should have the exact same rights that straight people do. Please, guys, tell me
where can I get a copy of this agenda.
My city displays Christmas decorations - including a Nativity at the city
building - every December. There are many residents of my city who are not
Christians, but I don't see them protesting these decorations the way that
many here are protesting pride flags. Rather, they graciously allow us to
celebrate a holiday that is important to many of us. Some of my non-Christian
neighbors from other countries even make an effort to learn about Christmas and
join in the festivities.Wouldn't it be wonderful if this
happened every year for Pride month? Those of us who are straight could make an
effort to get to know our LGBTQ+ neighbors and try to understand what they are
celebrating. There is a lot of interesting and important history behind the
flying of the rainbow flag. What if we chose to listen and learn instead of
retaliating with fear and anger? The younger generations are already
getting there, and that makes me happy and hopeful about the future of our
@shamrock:"Also, if you really think a person's gay identity (an
inherent trait) is the same as identifying as a Nazi (an evil choice), maybe you
haven't quite thought this issue through with the nuance it
deserves."I think the issue for many, including me, is that this issue
is divisive and has a high degree of emotion (positive and negative) for people
with differing views. Your simple statement that gay identity is an inherent
trait is not shared by many (including me). My church states we are born male
and female--not gay and straight. An honest look at individuals who choose a gay
lifestyle show that many are confused and unsure whether they are truly
"gay"--this is not consistent with it being "an inherent
trait"....regardless of the predominant propaganda being pushed in our
society.The most important issue is that we treat each other with respect
and equality regardless of our views. This should not be a one-way street.
The LGBT community wants acceptance but then they constantly separate themselves
from everyone else. They are the ones that make it an issue when a majority of
people don't care one way or the other. I'm straight but
I don't need to feel pride or have a parade or hang up flags to announce
it.I don't care who is gay and who is straight and I'll
treat everyone the same regardless.
Would some of you be alarmed if Heber City displayed flags commenorating Pioneer
Day or Black History month or Cinco de Mayo, especially if no public funds were
used to pay for the flags? If not, why not?The Supreme Court has
made it clear that LGBTQ citizens are equal, just as minority citizens are
equal. The fact that some of you still think gays should hide their identity
("don't push it in our face") or not express any "pride" in
it indicates our soceity has a ways to go in reaching real equality.Also, if you really think a person's gay identity (an inherent trait) is
the same as identifying as a Nazi (an evil choice), maybe you haven't quite
thought this issue through with the nuance it deserves.
The "gay agenda" is being referenced frequently in this comment section.
It appears few people know of its origins.What is the gay agenda?
This term was introduced by sectors of the Christian religious right
as a disparaging way to describe the advocacy of cultural acceptance and
normalization of non-heterosexual orientations. "The gay agenda"
was popularized by a video series produced by the evangelical religious group,
Springs of Life Ministries, and distributed by many Christian Right
organizations, the first video of which was called the Gay Agenda and was
released in 1992. I never hear this referenced in the gay community.
In fact, many LGBTQ+ individuals are living out very normal lives; working,
participating in their communities, raising families, etc. They all share
different political and religious opinions. Some are active in organizations
fighting for equal rights, others do not participate at all. There's nothing wrong with hanging a flag and raising awareness.
It's an opportunity to have a conversation. If you see the flag flying, and
disagree, then have a conversation with your family and discuss why you do or do
So the 10 Commandments have been removed from many city and state buildings
around the country but it’s somehow ok the fly pride flags on the
city’s Main Street? How? A double standard in my opinion.
ReadMineFirst - Ft. Collins, COJune 11, 2019 10:10 a.m.@Lou
Montana:"I am."Why?I am not a fan of
gayness but I respect their rights. How is it that they offend you?
If a city in going to allow or Promote any one flag, then that city must allow,
promote all flags.
@traveler"If you object to either of those two flags being flown
on city flagpoles but not the rainbow flag then I admire your ability to
doublethink."Sure, go ahead...you're fine by me to put up
any flag you want. Because unlike the conservative snowflakes, I don't get
offended by inanimate pieces of fabric.
This is the dumbest thing ever. This should have never been done. Again, the
LGBT community gets angry when people say anything about them at all, yet they
want to draw attention to themselves with this flag thing.Belnap
said that this was "personal", so then plant a flag, plant 100 flags in
your yard. Apparently it is also not political. Yet, the ACLU attorney wants
to talk about legal rights if the flags were to be removed. Again, it's
not political, but Belnap wants them around the entire city, which she had to
apply for approval through the city, which the Mayor had to get involved in.
This is what makes these things lame and ridiculous. The flags are not coming
down, let it ride for them month. But how about we don't do anything like
this again. And maybe the mayor needs to change the policy, and just have a set
standard of flags that get flown. And if anyone has a disagreement with the set
flags. Head on over to the city council meeting and voice your complaint, and
then a vote takes place by the council. Problem solved. But lets let this draw
attention to me or a group and whining about personal things go. It's time
to grow up and be adults about it.
The original meaning of the rainbow is of a promise God made to us, and pride is
one of the things God warns us of and to avoid ... Now we have a rainbow pride
flag trying to represent some peoples life choices ... hmmm, should make you
This is a slippery slope. Next thing you know, others, with an "agenda",
like Pioneer Day, will want to fly their flags too.
@Meckofahess"The sooner the LGBTQ community mellows out and stops
putting their agenda in our faces the sooner people will be more accepting and
less judgmental. "Utah only repealled it's (unconstitutional)
sodomy law this year.Just how mellow do gay folk need to be if it
took 16 years after Lawrence v. Texas for that level of "acceptance" to
be crossed?@All American"Why must we continue to divide
ourselves by our differences?"Because this article quotes a woman
who's son was assaulted and threatened for those "differences".@Jacobiuntherus"We are getting so tired of the constant
bombardment of LGBTQ promotion [...]"Like the kid in the article was
bombarded? Or less literally then that?As to the rest of your
"concern", nice-sounding conservatives have been saying the same thing
since the Mattachine Society was organizing in the 50s. "We want to be
understanding, but you're moving too fast!"@Al Thepal"Why should anyone be "proud" of who they are sexually attracted
to?"That's a strawman.We're proud that the world
tried to stamp us down and out, but that we're still dancing, We're
proud of our resilience, our familiy, our love. We're proud that we
Whatever one thinks of these flags, just remember that by creating and
maintaining a public forumn, the city (government) must now treat all comers the
same, and cannot discriminate based on viewpoint.This means that a
white pride or even white separatist, white nationalist, or white supremacy
group must be given the same access as was given to the sexual minority
community. Black Lives Matter and Sons of the Confederacy must be treated the
same by the city.It is one thing to have to let a highly offensive
group--whether highly offensive to the left, to the right, or to both--march
down city streets for a couple of hours for a parade. It is quite another to
have to host their flags and message on city light poles for a full month.Heber and every other city need to seriously rethink these policies
before some truly nasty, offensive groups promote their agenda just as the
sexual minorities have been allowed to do. Or even before someone, tired of
being browbeaten by the sexual minorities, decides to make a point that would be
hateful and divisive.
The LGBTQ community recently wanted to fly the “Pride” flag with the
American flag at all US embassies during gay pride month. Obama had approved
this a few years ago and the Trump administration just nixed it and I agree.
There comes a point that people stretch their agendas too far. Why would one
minority have preference over another for this matter? it gets annoying after a
So question: If another group paid for flags would Heber display them? Here are some examples that I can think of1) Star of David
Flag2) Hell's Angel Flag3) Christian Cross Flag4) Muslim
Flag5) Black Panther Flag6) Angel Moroni Flag7) Nazi Flag8) Confederate Flag9) Communist Flag10) U of U Flag11) BYU
Flag12) Wasatch High School Flag13) Pro Choice Flag14) Pro
Life Flag15) Etc., Etc,. Etc.I am not a fan of the rainbow
flags. Nor would I be a fan of many of the ones I listed. I say we stick to
the USA flag as this is what this nation stands for. Something we all need to
take Pride in.
Since Heber City has made it clear they will accept any flags a private
individual is willing to pay for, I look forward to flags depicting the Ten
Commandments next month, and flags with swastikas the month after that.If you object to either of those two flags being flown on city flagpoles but
not the rainbow flag then I admire your ability to doublethink.
Personally, I'm saddened that the rainbow has been coopted by any
particular community, and yesterday, I saw a truck with a flag in the back that
was in the pattern of our national flag i.e. with a rectangle of stars in the
upper left corner, but the red and white stripes had been changed to rainbow
colors. it was offensive to meThat flag does not represent me or
what I believe in and not only represents an agenda that I do not support in
many cases, but seemed crass and mocking to me, of a symbol that should unite
us, and for which many hundreds of thousands have given their lives for. Naturally, those in the gay community, want to be equal with all other
Americans, and should be treated fairly, and with decency and dignity. But it
seems to me that this community also seeks to be seen as superior to others.
And if one doesn't agree with their agenda, than one is a bigot, small
minded, brainwashed, mislead and should be targeted, blackballed, not allowed to
eat in certain restaurants, not allowed to wear clothing supporting candidates
not of their choice etc.
I think that this is very wrong. This does not represent the whole city of
Heber. On city streets the only flags that should be flown are ones that
represent the whole city. When you represent all the people it unites if you do
not it will divide. I have no plans to visit Heber again. It was such a nice
@independent"I can’t think of a better way for the LGTBQ
community to gain the “acceptance” they are perpetually seeking than
to drop the rainbow flag and fly the American flag, to show solidarity with the
rest of us in the idea that everyone is created equal."If they
need to gain acceptance then that would imply that things are still unequal.
A curious amount of passion over the bureaucratic decisions of a single small
town in rural America.Just to recap the bland details: Heber City,
Utah granted a citizen's application under an existing "policy that
lets residents apply to hang personalized banners on city lamp posts" for a
month-long period.Until these -particular- banners went up, Heber
City residents were apparently unaware or simply did not care about their
existing city banner policy.The obvious solution for those Heber
City residents who do not want to see this particular banner repeated is to
demand their elected officials eliminate the policy that allows for the city
hanging of 'personalized banners' for everybody and anybody, starting
July 1. The mayor even acknowledges as much in the article.But
that does not seem to be what this is about, right?
"Some of the debate over the banners, Potter believes, might come down to
how people define “pride.” For some people, she says, the word may
bring to mind the loud, flashy spectacle of a parade". I define
"pride" as "a feeling of satisfaction or happiness (either in
oneself or on behalf of others) based on something that is well done."
Rather than a parade, I think of accomplishments or traits that I would
encourage my children or grandchildren to seek after.Expressions of pride
imply support and promotion.While I believe in being kind and loving
toward all people, no matter what their beliefs or behaviors, I can't
celebrate a belief or practice that is contrary to my religious beliefs.There is no science to support homosexual or transgender feelings. LGBT
is a belief system which should be afforded the same rights as any religion, but
not more rights. A government displaying gay pride flags appears to promote one
belief over another and to celebrate something many of us cannot celebrate. I
am not offended when individuals express gay pride. It's their right.
Government policy should be neutral.
@Lou Montana:I am.
"A symbol that tries to remind people to be nice to each other is never
political."Any group that tacitly accepts hate crime hoaxes
perpetrated on their behalf isn't being "nice." As just one recent
example, I have yet to see the gay community broadly condemn the utterly
unconscionable actions of Jussie Smollett, who attempted to smear conservatives
and especially Trump supporters and was then let of the hook by a corrupt
government.As others have noted in this thread, when the rest of
America begins to perceive the LGBT movement as patriotic defenders of equal
justice, then tensions will subside. Instead, we see them attempting to tear
down the pillars of western civilization. That's not "nice" and
neither is their flag. Rather, it is purposefully divisive; even contentious.
@Brave Sir Robin "A symbol that tries to remind people to be
nice to each other is never political.""Nice", of course
- being defined as complete conformity to your politics and life outlook.How convenient for you.Are you "nice" to ex-gays?
Politically non-complaint homosexuals? individuals who choose not to engage in
your sexual activities?The rainbow flag is endemic of the exclusive
nature of social justice inclusivityIt is amazing at how quickly
leftists devolve into everything they claim to abhor.
Religion teaches that pride, if not the worst of sins, is at least a catalyst
for greater sin. It is man’s worst and generally the most common trait.
(women too). I’m trying to picture a nationally recognized month of
humility. Or how about a month of gratitude for our freedom and liberty. Pride
month often looks more like more tribal warfare, socially and politically
divisive. We are thankfully at a point at which almost no one but the most
ignorant and backward would say gay people and other minorities should not be
treated with equality, love, respect and kindness and certainly not
discriminated against. That is the country we live in. When people shout
“bigotry” or “racism” at every event, those words become
Justiciaparatodos - Salt Lake City, UT"I think a lot of Heber
citizens, will now be remembering the Mayor's decision come next election,
and it won't be a favorable recollection."Really?"The flying these banners has not only offended many in the Heber area,
but it has offended a lot of motorists who pass through Heber."Who is offended? Please tell us.
@counter I was not aware there was an LGBTQ political party. please
do tell us more.
I agree that there are significant political overtones to the rainbow flag. If a
school cannot hang the Ten Commandments from the argument that the state is
favoring Judeo Christian religions, then hanging the rainbow flag is encroaching
similar territory. LGBT people need more support, but let it happen from private
residences. There will likely be backlash from this. Groups will now
seek to hang their flags to test the city council and may seek legal action,
just as LGBT members have specifically sought out bakeries who will not make a
cake for a gay marriage and brought legal action.
I'm not a huge fan of the term "pride" being used for the LGBT
agenda. Why should anyone (gay, straight, or whatever) be "proud" of who
they are sexually attracted to? It is just a part of who you are, and frankly a
part of you that should be kept in your private life (again: gay, straight, or
whatever).However, it appears that the flags fit the city's
policy and were paid for through private means. I don't see the problem
with that, even if I don't fully agree with the message of the flags. As
for if the city would allow Nazi or Confederate flags, I think they would use
their judgement and deny those requests as those are pretty obviously
Flags are used to boost morale, show solidarity and promote the cause of the
group whose flag it is. As to the latter, it remains to be seen how far the
group will go to promote its' cause. Will it go so far as to create
conflict ? Will it try to overpower and dominate others of differing beliefs ?
Or will it be live and let live ?The future looks foreboding, based on the
actions of some, currently who seem to believe it is a matter of all or nothing;
us or them.
@Counter Intelligence"The rainbow flag is a political
flag"A symbol that tries to remind people to be nice to each
other is never political.
Go to SL libraries and the entry has a table promoting cross dressing and LGBTQ
issues. Herriman claims they aren't responsible for theirs...., it's a
I visited Heber recently and was shocked to see these. They doesn't
represent the values of Heber to me. They represent the LGBT+ agenda.
I can’t think of a better way for the LGTBQ community to gain the
“acceptance” they are perpetually seeking than to drop the rainbow
flag and fly the American flag, to show solidarity with the rest of us in the
idea that everyone is created equal.
Hey Potter, guilt is from within. The light of Christ was given to know good
from evil. Obey the obstinate feeling and change your ideals accordingly: Potter
said. "But there’s a feeling when you know you’re not accepted,
and when people look at you as a sinner or a deviant. It does something deep to
a person's sense of identity and well-being and confidence."
In Utah, one of our traditions is to cherish virtue. In fact, the words,
"truth" and "virtue" are linked tightly together. Those words
describe the norms of the families in Utah. We speak the truth and we not only
cherish virtue, but we guard it, and we defend it.Enough with flying
flags that would separate us into camps. Enough with shouts of discrimination
because we will never accept the principles represented by that flag. It's
time to stand for virtue on every street in America. That will offend some
people, but it will protect our children from being told and taught principles
that will destroy their peace and their happiness.There was once a
flag flown in America. "And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he
took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our
religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he
fastened it upon the end of a pole."That flag represented
something. It stood for God, for religion, for freedom, for peace, for
families. It was a flag that encouraged people to be better, to be honorable,
to be respectors of the God that gave them breath. It stood for truth and
This was a bad idea just like displaying the Ten Commandments on public property
is bad. The government should remain neutral otherwise the city will face
""I don’t think people are necessarily outright mean," Potter
said [...]"... they just throw things at gay people and threaten
them.But not in a *mean* way or anything.
Good for Potter. Whatever the outcome she is a brave and good citizen.
The rainbow flag is a political flag Unless government is going to
allow other political flags, they should not be endorsing a specific one.
@Birdman1990"all lives matter."Apparently so
much so that self-advocacy causes a knee-jerk reaction.
The article states: "Mayor Kelleen Potter, who gave the Pride flags the
official stamp of approval, said she’s been surprised by the volume of
feedback on the matter".I think a lot of Heber citizens, will
now be remembering the Mayor's decision come next election, and it
won't be a favorable recollection.The flying these banners has
not only offended many in the Heber area, but it has offended a lot of motorists
who pass through Heber.
the people that hung these flags followed the exact same process as any other
group that request to hang flags and meet all the same requirements as any other
group, Heber did the right thing by treating this group the same as any other
group. I get that equality can feel like oppression to those that are used to
being able to oppress others with impunity but it really is going to be all
@UteFan60:"The old patterns of hatred, misunderstandings, false
religious rhetoric, and downright discrimination have been confronted and that
fight continues. "You have assumed an awful lot. Inherent in
your statement is the assumption that moral beliefs are equivalent of hate and
prejudice.Please explain your reasoning. Otherwise the
rest of us will probably conclude that you are driven by your own phobias and
intolerance rather than logic and reasoning.
To InMyOpinionAlso - sandy, UT:Thank you for expressing your
opinion, so many people agree with you whole heartedly! We are
getting so tired of the constant bombardment of LGBTQ promotion - it only serves
to divide people and not unify us at all. In fact, all this LGBTQ agenda
promotion, just harms the LGBTQ cause in the eyes of the majority who want to be
understanding and accepting, but it is starting to have the opposite effect.Due to the divisiveness of the LGBTQ promotion, now I see groups now
wanting to hold "straight pride" parades and weeks and so-forth. That
movement will only intensify if this other stuff continues.
I don't understand why people prefer to classify themselves. Is it a need
to be part of a tribe? A need to stand out from the crowd? A need to shove their
differences in our faces? The only difference between LGBT people and everyone
else is their sexual proclivity. Why would they want to be defined by just that?
We know we all have sex but why the need to shout it to the world with a parade
or a flag. Let's get rid of all the classifications. We know we
all have differences. Why must we continue to divide ourselves by our
differences? Can't we just be humans or Americans or neighbors or friends?
@Utefan60:What you say may be true for a minority percentage of the
population but it is not true for the rest of us!You are
exaggerating the facts in a straw man attempt to spread a falsehood. The sooner the LGBTQ community mellows out and stops putting their agenda in
our faces the sooner people will be more accepting and less judgmental. Until
then, we just want to promote the message that ALL PEOPLE MATTER and are
Man they opened up a 'can of worms" with that thoughtless, albeit
benign act. Now ANY group can request the same and denial will probably cost
the city a ton of money in litigation. There are a lot of groups out there that
a city probably doesn't want to "support." Elected officials need
to THINK every once in a while and not just "react." No issue with the
flags but they should have been limited private rather than public areas.
@zgomerwhile I may agree that it would be silly for HOA's to ban
American flags there is an important fundamental difference between a private
organization such as an HOA and a public, city government.
I always have proceeded under the wise notion that if the ACLU likes something,
it is bad and wrong for America. Seems I am right again.There are
likely many people of strong religious faith in Heber City that do not want
their town to become a publicity stunt promoting the gay agenda. But they have
to be careful or gay people will call them bigots and shout them down in the
public square. When you use loaded newly invented words like
"homophobic" you can often silence the majority.But I am
glad to hear that at least a few folks in Heber are brave enough to stand up to
the gay lobby and the ACLU and speak up for good and right.
It seems we as a society are selectively fine with certain issues and are
contemptus on others. Why are some people offended by the displaying of Old
Glory is beyond me, yet the displaying of the LGBT flags are viewed as a sign of
inclusion and tolerance. As a non-white minority, I would love to see flags
celebrating the accomplishments of white men. But becasue it is politically
incorrect, there will never be such recognition. What about the Mexican farm
workers in the area, are they going to display the Mexican flags to show their
support? That shows we are fooling ourselves by claiming that we are inclusive
and tolerance of others. No we are not. We are very selective in our choices on
who to support, especially the hot potato issues.
This does nothing good in Heber City. It has been a divider not a uniting force.
They should have never gone up and now nobody dares touch the subject for fear
of offending their neighbor. The Mayor was not the smartest when she made this
To allow a group to hang flags from public property that calls attention to
their sexual agenda when that sexual agenda is not recognized by the community
as the community's norm, gives superior status to those who promote that
agenda and fly their flags. That is inequality. For any city to emphasize that
inequality is to deny all citizens equal protection under the law. If a flag is
to be flown in our communities, let it be the Stars and Stripes that represent
us all. Let those who beliefs and behavior differ, fly their flags on their own
property. The Constitution guarantees them that right but the Constitution does
not guarantee any group a superior role based on their person conduct or
Straight pride, all lives matter.
"After coming out as gay in Heber City, Potter said her son experienced
violence and verbal harassment, including people throwing things at him from
cars and texting him threats and homophobic slurs." Nice. I am sure the
folks of Heber think they are nice upstanding people too. I think I will
postpone my visit until Heber arrives in the 21st century.
I find that they represent the changing of times. That is 100% true. The old
patterns of hatred, misunderstandings, false religious rhetoric, and downright
discrimination have been confronted and that fight continues. Millenials, families, and even religious people are changing their
preconceived notions. Millenials are not falling for the hatreds and bigotries
that they find to be wrong.Even Churches have changed. One time it
was a "sin to be born gay". Then it was a "choice". Then that
changed to an attraction that was labeled "same sex attraction". That
continuing evolution has released many LBGTQ people from the chains of religious
bigotry.New civil rights are here. Marriage, no matter what anyone
thinks is the law of the land. And it didn't challange anyone's
religous beliefs. Some didn't like it, but millions celebrated that
members of their own families had a right that the rest of us took for granted.
A famous Utah celebrity recently attended the joyeous wedding of her
daughter to her new wife. Yes times are a changing! The fight to change those
times has been rough and in some cases filled with abuse and even murder.
The ACLU is wrong. Individuals have every right to hand a flag in their own
yards. It’s protected by the First Amendment. However, they don’t
have a right to do so on public property. I’m not a fan of County
Councilman Goode, but he’s correct. Imagine how nuts the ACLU would be if
the City allowed the LDS Church (err the Church of Jesus Christ) or the
Republican Party to hand flags on the lamp posts.
There’s a show on CNN called United Shades of America. Last week’s
episode was on gay people in SLC. Very interesting.
People are falling all over themselves attempting to demonstrate they are hip to
homosexuality*.* - Are we still allowed to use that word, or is that
likewise polically incorrect.
The times they are a changing