Ranch,You are promoting the common atheist propaganda that religious
people and organizations/church's should have no public voice. This is a
fallacy that opposes the Constitution, where religious freedom is the first
named freedom, and it says nothing about freedom of speech and freedom of the
press being restricted to atheists and being withheld from people of faith. Your
interpretation of the constitution grows as atheism grows, but is still not
prevalent and has never been the accepted view of the courts and the majority of
citizens in the US. You have no justification at all for your
assertion, beyond it being your opinion. The fact that religions have long held
influence in public policy, including legislation, has kept the US from
crumbling into chaos long ago.And no, Helaman was not talking about
this new invented "bigotry" against same-sex attracted people. The only
mention of such things in the BofM is called "whoredoms," which is an
apt description of all kinds of immorality, including homosexual. Rather, he
referred to wicked men using their influence in Nephite government to install
kings (dictators) instead of democratically chosen judges, as he was.
@Orson;Religious organizations can do whatever they want - that
doesn't make it right.As for participation in the public
square; no, religious organizations have no business interfering in the lives of
non-adherents. Period.FYI;Perhaps Helaman referred to
the evil of discrimination and bigotry; did you ever think of that?
Ranch,You need to reread the news story you are commenting on; it is about
doctrine/policy within the Catholic church and has nothing to do with "our
civil legal system."However, having recognized that your point
is moot because it is misdirected, you should understand that religious freedom
entitles religious people and religious organizations to participate in the
pubic square.Further, that our current US legal system (the
Constitution) was founded by Christians on Christian religious beliefs of right
and wrong/good and evil. This is why it has been so hard and time-consuming for
atheist groups to have laws changed in the court system--because until the last
few decades, most people were commandment-keeping Christians (like your
ancestors) and they saw the courts in that light. Who knows what
affect the atheist/agnostic influence will have on US laws and judicial system
over the next 50-100 years. Helaman 5:2 says: "For as their laws and their
governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil
were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening for
destruction, for the laws had become corrupted." That's prophecy.
@NoNames:"Lets be honest so we can help those who need
help."-- Yes, lets. Please start.@RiDal;There are MORE LGBT people in America than there are Mormons in the entire
world; shall we deny that "infinitesimal minority" their rights too?@Orson;Scripture has no place in our civil legal system.@Seth;Forcing others to adhere to your beliefs does harm
them; your god is fictional, nobody should be forced to follow it.
Seth,Let's hope you are right.
Orson - I wholeheartedly believe that there are some who will never capitulate.
As they draw increasingly toward light and truth, they will be empowered to
reject falsehoods and to endure and act valiantly. The contest from the first is
not between man and his fellow man, but between children of God and deadly
deception that would ensnare and poison them and ruin their progress. All who
care enough to win this fight will ultimately be equipped to win it. Thank God
for a prophet!
Loving God and being loyal to Him does not in any way, shape or form make a
person "bigoted", "harassing", or "promoting violence".
That is Satan's lie, introduced to drive a wedge between good people.
Toward people who experience gender confusion or same-sex attraction, Christians
and good people of all faiths are their greatest allies. Pressures and doctrines
that promote the view of LGBT status as a person's innermost identity are
their greatest enemies: They create all-consuming pride, confusion and animosity
towards light and truth itself. Some people do experience confusion and low
self-esteem regarding their own priceless gift of gender. Some suffer the
devastating effects of same-sex attraction. No Christian contradicts the reality
of these experiences or feelings. However, they are not a person's
identity. Regardless of the origin of that pressure, whether physiological,
spiritual, or social, it can be healed through the power of Jesus Christ. He
conquered death. The only thing that can stay His hand from blessing and healing
us is untruth resulting in our own pride and obstinacy, which is the very thing
Satan has planted between us to create that rift and prevent healing.
Transitioning is very dangerous. Just type in"He used to be trans", on
You Tube. The truth is starting to come light.
@NoNamesAcceptedSex is determined by chromosomes. Gender is more identity
driven.As for orientation being fluid, bisexuality is a thing and if
you're in between the two ends of the spectrum then what you are can appear
more fluid than it is. One could be a bisexual guy who is now dating a girl
after previously being in a relationship with a guy.
I am gay, I was baptized Catholic, and here we go again. These are decisions
that hurt LGBT people, especially transgender folks. Sexual orientation is an
immutable characteristic that is not subject to choice or change- and it is
certainly not subject to any Church's pronouncements. The Church should
stand up for LGBT people, especially transgender folks, not opening the front
door to discrimination. Following in the footsteps of Christ would go a long way
toward aligning the Church's position with our human existance. This ship
If you are a boy you are made of - frogs and snails and puppy-dog tails. If you
gotta ‘em, you’re a boy, no question.
I am pleased the Catholics have stood firm on this issue, for scripture is very
plain and they would have been wrong to determine otherwise. However, I believe
the day will come, years from now, that they will capitulate and join the
growing trend among world religions to toss the word of God out in favor of the
philosophies of men on the social issues.I think it worth noting
that the same LGBT activists that harass and oppose The Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints are doing likewise to the Catholics. They know negative
publicity can often pressure an organization to capitulate to their demands.This is how misled activists and protesters overcome the plain teachings
of scripture and deplete what inspiration and truth is left in the various
churches and religions around the world. The Great Apostasy it still in powerful
effect across the earth and the light of Christ is diminished. For now, I
applaud the Catholics and support their internal decision as good and sound, and
I hope they can remain strong on the issue as long as possible.
There is a spectrum of everything and everyone deserves their rights... But that is just another reason to stop trying to force other people to
participate in the delusions of an infinitesimal minority. Normal people have
the right to recognize scientific, factual, biological reality without being
I respect the Vatican/Pope's common sense approach here. Some
want to claim gender (which is determined by chromosones) is fluid, while
orientation (which we don't know exact causes) is fixed at birth? I'm
just not buying it. I think gender is likely to be fixed. While my experience is
that orientation is fluid with too many people claiming it is fixed due to
current political pressures.Furthermore, it is time to stop dragging
out self harm among sexual minorities as a reason to do anything. Nobody can
point to any laws or public policies that actually result in reduced self harm
among sexual minorities. Ditto any metric of social acceptance of sexual
minority intimate behavior. Sexual minorities living in Boston or even
Canada--where ministers are arrested simply for saying that certain conduct is
sinful--have the same higher risk of self harm than heteronormative folks as do
their counterparts living in Utah or the Bible Belt.We are not
helping people in need by asserting despite all evidence that self harm is due
to outside forces. Self harm in all its forms among sexual minorities seems to
be internally drivent.Lets be honest so we can help those who need