There is no such thing as a gay lifestyle, culture, or community.Just like
LDS people (or anyone else) LGBTQ Americans come in all shapes, sizes, faiths,
races, political parties, financial standing.....anything you care to name.No one says LDS Lifestyle. No one says Black Lifestyle. No one says
Republican Lifestyle, because we are all intelligent enough to realize that just
like Christians, Muslims, Jews, teachers and auto mechanics.....they come in
every variety of human being. Can you spot, or even define, a Presbyterian
Lifestyle? A Methodist Lifestyle? A Nurses Lifestyle?
Rob S,The politically correct crowd seems to have a problem with
Christians when they actually ARE Christian.
@scepticYou wrote:The unknowns are as unknown to the mighty as to
the common.Maybe true, but the unknowns to the mighty and to the common
are known to the Almighty.To others:A leader of a religion
makes a positive gesture to the owner of the Pulse nightclub where a tragedy
occurred. Why make more of it than that? Does it have to be the cause of
getting things all riled up.
So the church has no problem with gays except when they actually ARE gay.“If members feel same-gender attraction but do not engage in any
homosexual behavior, leaders should support and encourage them in their resolve
to live the law of chastity and to control unrighteous thoughts. These members
may receive Church callings. If they are worthy and qualified in every other
way, they may also hold temple recommends and receive temple ordinances”
(Handbook 2: Administering the Church, 21.4.6).Seems a bit
odd....and this is coming from a member.
To "Frozen Fractals" no, actually Provo has been listed as being gay
friendly. There are not that many gays there, but it is gay friendly.
Wonderful to see President Nelson reaching out in love and understanding to the
LGBT community. I hope more members will follow his example now that he has
signaled this endorsement and caring for this marginalized group.
So grateful for the example of President Nelson and other leaders. This subtle
but important visit reminds us how we should treat others who may have different
opinions or ideas. This visit also says those with religious views should be
I don't think the false claims against Omar were intended to discredit the
LGBT community. I think they more served to avoid facing up to Islamist
motivated hate in the discuss of what was happening.
The Pulse Attack was not aimed at those there based on being LGBT any suggestion
otherwise goes against the clear indicators the attacker had no idea what type
of club it was. The attack was motivated by hate of the United States and by
radical militant Islamism.
Justiciaparatodo"President Nelsen and the Church have done a lot to
reach out to the Gay community in understanding, kindness and love, but alas, a
lot of Gay folks won't give any recognition or praise for that - only
criticism." As a Gay ExMormon, please tell me how he and the
Church as reached out to me? Where was their support for the Utah's bain
on conversion therapy? I will gladly recognize and praise the church when it
really does research out in love and kindess, like many of their members do.
The Church has more members in Florida than anywhere else in the South (or
anywhere on the East Coast) many of whom were also part of or had family
involved in Orlando's LGBT scene. It's good to see President Nielson
reach out and comfort the community like this. It's an awful tragedy what
happened at Pulse, and sadly, many of those same hateful attitudes and rhetoric
is being used against LGBT individuals today. I hope we can continue to see
people like Nielson comfort those that need comforting.
I get so sick of people demanding that other people repent or predicting where
anyone else will end up in the next life according to religious doctrine. I
really don't want the details of what anybody else does in their bedrooms
or homes as they try to live happy lives. I have no idea why people make certain
personal choices and what their individual struggles or genetics are. It's
none of my business and it's none of their business whatever I choose to
think in my brain about religion etc. This is a free country of thoughts and
actions according to laws. Stop judging each other and debating doctrine. We
know so very little about anything. We should accept each other's choices
and stop the bigotry on both sides. Be as happy as you can be by loving others.
Skeptic,The Mormon concept of "inclusiveness" includes both
the unborn and the dead. This being the case, I don't believe that the LDS
Church needs any lectures from the "PC" community about inclusiveness.
@RedShirt"Did you know that Salt Lake has been named one of the most
gay friendly large cities in the US? How could that be if the LDS people hated
gays so much?"Well it's Salt Lake City... not Provo. You
know, the liberal part of the state.
Skeptic,You have phrased it very poorly, but you are partially right. The
church, or kingdom of God, and later Heaven, is exclusatory. But Hell is not.
Satan will take anyone he can get. Jesus said that strait is the way and narrow
the gate and few there be that find it. This means that only those who meet the
conditions Jesus set and believe in Him and obey His commandments will receive
the reward of Eternal Life with God. In our times, most are
skeptical and won't do that and reject the message, as you do. But many
others will and do and reap happiness here, and eternal life later, as a result.
Semi-PRO, "That's a lot of property." It produces a lot of food
to help and benefit people in need.dmcvey, Last time I checked,
the LDS members aren't the ones who shout "bigot," and
"homophobe" at anybody who disagrees with them, send hate mail and death
threats to small business owners, try to hound people out of their jobs because
of how they voted, or marginalize religious groups on college campuses (while
professing to believe in pluralism, tolerance, and diversity).As for
me, i am proud to be a member of a denomination which (as I mentioned earlier)
understands the difference between love and relativism, and is capable of doing
something more than just dishing out vague, nebulous talk about
To answer the question "So can Gay people ever achieve happiness under the
current church dictates?" The answer depends if you look at the policies or
the doctrine, under the current church policy - no, because If I were to a
memeber once again, I would have leave than man I love, and destroy the family I
have built out of love. But if you take the doctrine preached by Pres, Nelson
that: “It is wherever the spirit of the Lord dwells in the hearts of the
people. It is inside any home that has become a sanctuary of faith and is filled
with love. It is inside every house of the Lord,” Then true happiness is
achieved, as with my family, a home of two loving husbands, a daughter and son
in-law and three wonderful grankids who call us Papa.
"Mayor Jerry Demings of Orange County praised the relationship between local
government and the church. The church owns 295,000 acres in the area that are
part of Deseret Ranches of Florida."That's a lot of
I hope to see more inclusion of LGBT members in our church. They have a place in
the church and are equal partakers in God’s plan, but it isn’t as
clear as for straight folks.
To "MoreMan" yes, gay people can be part of the LDS church an have a
joyous life while living the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't know what you
mean by dictates.To "dmcvey" what more do you expect the LDS
church to do? Although the evidence that the LDS church is so unwelcoming to
gays is really thin. Did you know that Salt Lake has been named one of the most
gay friendly large cities in the US? How could that be if the LDS people hated
gays so much?
MoreMan - San Diego, CA"So can Gay people ever achieve happiness under
the current church dictates?"By dictates you really mean
doctrine. Happiness is up to the individual who wants to follow Christ and does
not depend on changing those principles to meet every person's life style.
@ skeptic" God comes around to seeing things man's way"? Actually, it is the other way around:Moses delivered a lessor
law, because the people were not ready.Jesus at first directed His
Apostles to only teach within the tribe because the people were not ready (ie
Samaritan) --- later added others of the 12 tribes, setting the example
personally-- later said to take it to all nations --- finally told them
that he was serious about that (the revelation about the sheet and
Jaxman,That is not true. The "investigations"
could not find evidence for that bogus claim, including the article by Robles
and Turkewitz.And even IF he was secretly gay - a big if! - he
certainly wasn't part of the LGBT community - you kind of have to be
"out" to be part of any community. These false claims are
put out there by those wanting to discredit the LGBT community. That is
deceptive and wrong.
So can liars, thieves, adulteriers, lazy, pedifiles ever achieve happiness under
the current church dictates? The answer is - Of course, through repentance. We
all have issues in our lives that seperate us from the love of God. But as we
repent and strive daily to be like Jesus, we can be forgiven and receive the
grace and mercy that is extended through the atonement. It is not a place we
get to in a moment, but over a life of trying, we will arrive. It doesn't
matter what your problem is, Jesus can help you through it if you will let him.
@I M LDS 2 - Provo, UT, Omar was leading a double life. He was married, but
was having affairs with men. That came out in the investigations. As far as
the standing of the Church on same sex attractions, As long as a person is
following the teachings of the Church and walking the covenant path, they are,
or should be, in full fellowship as anyone else in the Church. They are not
only active members, but hold responsible positions and even temple workers and
ordinance workers. Sometimes some of the members are bias out of ignorance, but
the Churchs official position is that Same Sex Attraction is not a choice.
Wow, very mixed feelings. I was raised in the church but left not just because
of but in part because I am gay. I know many very loving members, but
don't feel that the church itself does much to curb hate toward LGBTQ+
people. Judging by a lot of the responses to this story I don't see the
church doing much in the fight against hate.
Lilly Munster & MoreMan,Unlike the politically correct crowd,
the leaders of the LDS Church have not confused love with relativism. They
understand the difference.
To Chris B...Not only was he married, but his wife was investigated for
her participation in planning the shooting at Pulse. Her name was Noor.Hatred spreads when falsehoods are shared.
@Justiiaparatodos,You post: Possibly. But in my view that can only
happen if and when Gay citizens recognize that the Church is only teaching the
dictates and commandments of God.If you have read and followed church
history then you should know of the numerous dictate changes in church doctrine,
ceremonies, rituals and policies. Isn't it wonderful how with time and a
little humane reasoning man's God comes around to seeing things man's
way. There is no justice for all without equal rights for all. Today's
church is not yesterday's church; and tomorrow's church will not be
today's church. Each person needs to learn to think for themselves. The
unknowns are as unknown to the mighty as to the common.
Chris B - "Its also worth noting it was a member of the LGBT community who
killed so many others in this night club shooting."Excuse me?
Omar Mateen was not gay, and was married to a woman."A lie is
any communication made with the intent to deceive."-- Elder Marvin J.
@ more manYes anyone who follows Heavenly Fathers standards and
teachings will have joy and happIness.So thankful for true words of
a prophet who is firm in testimony of truth in a troubled world. So thankful
for a rue and loved bing prophet, who like Bible and Book of Mormon prophets who
bravely say it the way it is. A true way of happiness.
@MoreMan:You asked this question: "So can Gay people ever
achieve happiness under the current church dictates?"Possibly.
But in my view that can only happen if and when Gay citizens recognize that the
Church is only teaching the dictates and commandments of God. President Nelsen
and the Church have done a lot to reach out to the Gay community in
understanding, kindness and love, but alas, a lot of Gay folks won't give
any recognition or praise for that - only criticism. A degree of
happiness might well be achieved when Gay activists try building some bridges to
the Church albeit with some understanding that there may never be total
satisfaction. There are things in life that I am not totally satisfied with
either, but I strive to deal with it in a productive way.Reality can
really be a tough love school master sometimes.
@Iron Rod"Is it significant to us that President Nelson spent
time with the owner of a gay night club?"It should be, but sadly
I doubt this "hitting home" with many of us who profess to follow the
I was one those caught in the rainstorm and got soaked. But what a small price
for the privilege of hearing President Nelson.The article didn't
mention that President Nelson sang "I am a Child of God" with the
Primary children, what a moment that was.
“It is wherever the spirit of the Lord dwells in the hearts of the people.
It is inside any home that has become a sanctuary of faith and is filled with
love. It is inside every house of the Lord,” said President Nelson.
“It can be wherever you are when the spirit of the Lord is with
you.” So can Gay people ever achieve happiness under the current church
Now I have a clearer understanding of what "support, affiliate or agree
with" means and importantly does not mean. I am very grateful for it!
The irony of this is just astounding. What do we know are factors that lead to
the bullying, demonizing and murder of countless LGBT Americans? Yes, we do
This is an example of a prophet of God showing charity (the pure love of Christ)
to someone that, despite a sinful lifestyle, is still one whom God and His
prophet love; somewhat like Jesus eating, drinking, and spending time with
sinners and publicans in His day. These holy men are capable of great love for
all, even those who promote sin (as the nightclub did). Plus, no one deserves
being gunned down.Let no one be guilty of thinking that Pres. Nelson
is "supporting" these people in their culture and lifestyle and
purposes. He can reach out and be filled with and show love for others
(especially after enduring horrendous tragedy) while disapproving of their
personal conduct. Prophets cannot condone sin anymore than the Lord can, but
they are not hypocrites and they do reach out in love for all of God's
children. There lives are filled with such behavior.A fine example
for all of us, yet not an invitation to join that scene or support that
lifestyle. There is a huge difference between loving sinners, and supporting
them in their sins, and prophets of God know it. So should all Latter-day Saints
that follow them.
We have been called to mourn with those who mourn. I see no better example than
this. As St. Francis of Assisi is reputed to have said, “Always preach the
gospel of Christ. When necessary, use words.”
I can imagine that she would have been tempted to skip the meeting, considering
the church’s teachings. I think it’s brave of her to reach out
Is it significant to us that President Nelson spent time with the owner of a gay
I am pleased to see Pres. Nelson met with the owner of the Pulse Nightclub. What
happened there three years ago was an absolute tragedy. Pres. Nelson is
acknowledging that each of us is a beloved child of God and should be treated as