@backpacn - Sandy, UT"Which gives the hundreds of thousands of
BYU fans who are citizens of the state of Utah just as much right to be involved
in decisions regarding how the U is run, as Utah fans."----------------------------So tell us good sir, how do your
hundreds of thousands go about being involved in decisions regarding the U? I agree we all have the same rights. But your still NOT involved in the
decision making process.Did you weigh in on the last coach hire? OR
last AD hire? Did you vote on schools to schedule, how any money was spent,
etc?And if you think any of these programs are looking at comment
sections in local media articles to get a sense of what folks want, then your
comments make sense. We all have the same rights. We agree. But
nobody but the folks involved in actually making those decisions, has anything
more than an opinion. i.e. no influence what-so-ever.
@backpacn - Sandy, UTFACT:You weren't a part of the
PAC12 planning, negotiation or invitation team. And while the
timing might be "fact" you really have no idea if your speculation on
the events equal the BYU narrative.And even if Utah were plan
"B". That plan was already, long in place if Plan "A" fell
through. They knew Plan "A" was a long shot and not very likely.Colorado was invited 1st because Larry Scott put a stake in the ground
about what BigXII team were NOT going to get invited. He
wasn't going to be held hostage by Texas, as they had already been doing in
the BigXII at the time. You are welcome to your opinion but you
don't, and can't, really know the intentions of the PAC 12. And the
BYU narrative of these event, right or wrong, doesn't change the fact that
Utah is in the PAC12 today. Regardless of how they got there.The
BigXII has looked at BYU 3 times now, over decades. Still no invite. If/when
they do actually get an invite, what will your "narrative" be about
that? Plan "D" finally worked out? Yeah, I doubt it.You'll just be happy to be in.
@ 65 power tossed trapped,U just made innuendo to me that I was a
"Johnny Miller fan?" Are you kidding me? He lived near us in Holladay,
Utah, my baby brother played with Johnny Miller Jr at Cottonwood HS,......Marty
was #1 when they won 2 state championships and he beat JMjr like a step-child
every time they played. The Millers were also a member of the Cottonwood Country
Club.......and I played with Johnny Miller Sr. many times. I could never beat
that guy......he was a GREAT PLAYER, unlike I. But, he was so beyond arrogant
that NO ONE wanted to EVER be around him and never were......and they still do
not!Now, BYu is not in any conversation.......Utah is in quite a few
in fact. The alleged "rivalry" is TOAST!Try to be nicer,
"Most of us realists know who owns the state of Utah..."Sorry Johnny Miller fan, you have me confused for someone who cares about the
Utah-BYU rivalry. I could easily live without it as could BYU. I'm a
realist - I know that BYU and Utah exist in different worlds that may never
collide again in the future.
Utah-Hawaii Alum"Most of us realists know who owns the state of
Utah."FACT: It's the good citizens of the state of Utah.Which gives the hundreds of thousands of BYU fans who are citizens of
the state of Utah just as much right to be involved in decisions regarding how
the U is run, as Utah fans.Those fans who are not citizens of the
state of Utah have a right to squawk all they want to, but they have no right to
be involved in decision-making discussions.
wacpaddledYou're still dodging the question, so here it is
again:"If Colorado and Utah were "tied at the hip", then
why was Colorado invited a full week before Utah?"FACT:Utah was NOT invited to join the PAC 12 until 2 days AFTER the merger had
FAILED.Bottom line:Despite the false claims of the kids
on the molehill, Utah was NEVER included the merger negotiations.
@ 65 power tossy trapped,Most of us realists know who owns the state
of Utah. Do U thunk Mark Harlan has any options, no matter how many Utes write
him? BYu needs Utah these days.......and, they'll do EVERYTHING to make
that happen. BYu's owners need to be audited by the IRS. Then, the U could
possibly be free from the heat.....?
Mark Harlan is going to make some peoples' heads explode with this BYU-nice
@ Arizona Ute,Your last post is very valid and important concerning
"free speech." However, their microscopic culture that dwells in
absolute denial, fear, self-loathing and ever extending just one iota of
consideration for anyone other than themselves has never been just one thought
or a possibility for them. Honestly, I like the never-ending entertainment value
they provide every darn day, in fact. They are "the gift" that keeps on
giving.U get it Arizona Ute, and thank you again for that important
ruth Machine - Salt Lake City, UTJune 6, 2019 2:09 p.m.navel vet"It's quite obvious that you have no idea what you're
talking about. Larry Scott mentioned your big brother on the hill as a Pac-10
target as early as Feb. 2010 -- 4 months PRIOR to Texas bailing on the potential
Pac-10/Big 12 South merger."Yet it's blatantly obvious from
all news reports of the merger negotiations that Utah would have been left on
the outside looking in if the merger had succeeded.There's no
legitimate source that you can cite where Utah was seriously considered as a
substitute for any of these teams, until the merger failed:Texas,
Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado.If
Colorado and Utah were "tied at the hip", then why was Colorado invited
a full week before Utah?If the merger had succeeded, Utah would have
been left out in the cold._____Sigh.This has been
debunked so many times.A&M chose the SEC during that time. Everyone
knew they would never go to the PAC.Dallas Morning News, Denver Post, Tom
Osborne.....those are more than enough sources referencing Utah.Can
we please hear stores and references about BYU being invited to a conference?
@Swoop - Salt Lake City, UTWe live in America and have inalienable
rights as a result. One of those rights is free speech.Just because
you live in Utah doesn't give you any more rights than anyone else to share
your opinion about any aspect of the University of Utah. You just have those
rights naturally. You have the same rights to voice your opinion about Penn
State or UCS, etc. too.Just like being LDS (er.. member of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), doesn't give me any more
rights to voice my opinion about what BYU does. But I don't have less
right to do it either.Do you own voting shares in the University of
Utah? Nope, it's not a publicly traded entity. Are you on the board of
regents at the U of U? Are you employed in a capacity that grants you rights to
speak about or vote on, who Utah should play? I am sure the answers are no, no
and no. But you can voice your opinion freely.We all
have the same rights, us Americans, to speak our opinions freely. Regardless of
where we live, or what states we pay taxes in.
Swoop“BYU fans have far more right to say what goes on at the
U than you do.”Utah-Hawaii Alum should remember that the next
time he gets the urge to start popping off about who Utah should and
shouldn’t play.He’s only a bystander with no stake in
the game.”That’s why Harlan completely ignores him.
uteanymous“Utah is owned by all of the citizens of Utah,which obviously doesn’t include you,but does include
100’s of thousands of BYU fans.Bottom line,BYU
fans have far more right to say what goes on at the U than you do.”Utah-Hawaii Alum should remember that the next time he gets the urge to
start popping off about who Utah should and shouldn’t play.He’s only a bystander with no stake in the game.
Utah-Hawaii Alum“You are in fact correct! BYU’s owners
also own the Utah State Legislature.....”Nope!Utah
is owned by all of the citizens of Utah,which obviously
doesn’t include you,but does include 100’s of thousands
of BYU fans.Bottom line,BYU fans have far more right to
say what goes on at the U than you do.
Utah-Hawaii Alum“BYu doesn't compare to Utah in all
facets of education.......from bottom to top. Utah is a real school pards, not a
parochial obedience experience.”Don’t kid yourself.BYU blows the doors off Utah in most facets of education......from top
to bottom, with the added benefit of providing a Christ-centered learning
@ Quince Orchard,You are in fact correct! BYu's owners also own
the Utah State Legislature......hence, they own everything in Utah, and they
have from day one as you know.Again, you are correct, sir. Utah is a
state school that takes students from all walks of life, minorities, financially
stressed.......an entire gamut of souls are considered to attend Utah,
rightfully so, and I'm HONORED that people get a chance. The competition to
get into BYu as a regular kiddo is extremely difficult, and as you stated
correctly, they ARE much better prepared and always smarter as a
whole......okay, I agree, saint.However, BYu doesn't compare to
Utah in all facets of education.......from bottom to top. Utah is a real school
pards, not a parochial obedience experience. Utah has top professors and
programs/research that are national/world leaders. There is just no way to
compare BYu vs Utah.......impossible. Utah outclasses BYu in nearly all
ways......not even close.I KNOW LDS are smart and have an unreal
work ethic..........I grew up with them in Utah kind sir.
Utah-Hawaii AlumUtah's owners are a subset of BYU's
owners.Despite your always misleading spin, BYU
students, on average, are MUCH better prepared for college than their Utah
counterparts, as proven by their much higher average ACT scores and GPAs.The majority of BYU's students come from out of state.The
majority of Utah's students come from Utah.Even the top
traditional Utah public high schools don't even begin to compare to most of
the out-of-state high schools that most BYU students attended.For
example, Quince Orchard High School, in Maryland:#533 in National
Rankings (of 17,245 ranked schools)#11 in Maryland High Schools91%/66% of students took/passed at least one AP ExamTHE highest
ranked traditional Utah public high school, Davis High School:#853
in National Rankings#4 in Utah High Schools53%/46% of students
took/passed at least one AP Exam* Source: USN&WR
@ Wild Ute, It must also be mentioned about the type of education at
the U vs the Y..........Utah has much smaller class sizes in critical core
classes taught by top-shelf full professors starting at the undergrad level. BYu
has monster classes taught by grad assistants for the most part and their full
professors hardly can compare to Utah. Also, BYu requires 7 religion classes to
graduate.....? What? That only caters to LDS kids, not folks that want an
education without suggested "indoctrination." In essence, BYu serves a
very specific type of education totally designed/monitored by their owners. Utah
is a great school. BYu serves the needs of their owner's flock of
I totally agree agree with Wild Ute, but getting into BYu as a Utah Mormon kid
is really tough! There are MANY factors not known of generally......where they
live/are from, legacy families, athletic admissions, offspring of LDS leaders/
BYu faculty and on and on. Therefore, admission requirements are really
competitive. There are maybe 4000 freshman undergrad spots available......could
be less in fact.
Max it's called supply and demand in business. You see BYU has higher ACT
scores because of all the Mormon parents who want them to go to BYU to meet a
good LDS mate.The more that apply the more selective you can be and
the higher ACT score required to get in. Utah ranks higher in masters programs
thanks to their medical programs. BYU doesn't even come close to Utah.
Which is why I chose Utah over BYU.
"if it makes sense to take a year or two off based on what’s best for
Utah, what’s best for BYU, we’ll both be open for that
conversation."There is a ray of hope!
Max - Upstate, NYJune 8, 2019 4:43 p.m.Moreover, it is also a
fact that the majority of Utah students could not meet the academic requirements
for admission to BYU (and again, they don't even come close). -------A team of researchers, led by Raj Chetty of Stanford
University and John Friedman of Brown University, released a report estimating
“mobility ratings” for nearly all colleges in the country. The
ratings represent how well institutions enable students from low-income
backgrounds to both access and reap the benefits of college.On this
mobility metric, BYU ranked 2,125 out of 2,137 institutions. Only 12 fared
SoonerUte:"CougsandDawgs wouldn't say UGA and Ga Tech constantly
tweak each other."No they do not, except during rivalry week as
you stated, and even that isn't much. That being said, Georgia and Florida
fans constantly troll each other...UGA's daily podcast even has a segment
called the "gator hater updater". That's different though because
they play in the same division, fight for many of the same recruits, and have
conference and sometimes national implications when they play each other...not
the case for BYU vs Utah.It would be nice to see that kind of
rivalry develop between Utah and a Pac12 South school, but it's not likely
because there isn't the same history and animus developed over decades that
you see with the RRR or TWLOCP. The Holy War may die over time, but right now
there's animus that has historical context...so it lives on (even though
many of us would rather it didn't).
maxi—byu is a teacher’s college & ranks extremely
low in Workd Rankings, MUCH lower than us.byu has nice undergrad
programs, but so do we, irregardless of entrance requirements.Where
we really distance ourselves is in post-graduate studies, particularly in
research/medicine.Research is precisely why byu was academically
unqualified for PAC-12 inclusion, not this religion-nonsense.Go
You are absolutely right, Utah-Hawaii. BYU doesn't compare to Utah in
ANYTHING academically. BYU is superior to Utah academically. And it isn't
even close. This is just a fact. BYU is ranked much higher in any ranking of
national universities and the student ACT scores soar above Utah's.
Moreover, it is also a fact that the majority of Utah students could not meet
the academic requirements for admission to BYU (and again, they don't even
come close). These are just facts. They are verifiable and I think virtually
everybody (well except some of the most uninformed) know this and I have never
heard anybody even attempt to dispute this (until now :). However,
it is also a fact (again, I have always been a fan of both schools having grown
up in Utah) that athletically, Utah is now able to recruit athletes that they
have never been able to recruit in the past. As a result, they are very
difficult for BYU to compete against. Where BYU used to have the edge, now Utah
has an edge (although the football teams are a lot closer than the outcomes
would suggest over the last few years. Almost all of those games were extremely
competitive and could have gone either way)
Glad to read that Harlan and Holmoe are open to another break in the football
series. If BYU is to be truly independent, it must break away from
using Utah as their measuring stick. Last year's greatest accomplishment
of "leading Utah for a while" was a sad statement. Players and fans
need to be more excited about their Indy schedule. Have heard too many say
they'd be happy going 1-11, if that 1 win was vs Utah.
@ Max,BYu doesn't compare to Utah in ANYTHING academically
other than min admission standards. Remember, Utah is a state school, not a
privately owned daycare center for "special" people. Stop spreading
I feel sad that Mark Harlan balks at our "TRUE" instate football, USU,
and schedules a struggler that their owners leverage Utah's flagship school
= BYu.Last year, RES sold out + all standing room tickets vs BYu.
Well, based on the published contract for that game, the Y was to receive $600k
and must sell the 2500 allotted tickets or that would be deducted from their
check from the U. BYu only sold 463 tickets is all. We all know whY......too
expensive for them!!!! We paid far less, in finality, for that game and the
standing room only U crowd found seats......a "true" blessing indeed! I
bet if we scheduled Utah State.......they would buy EVERY seat......... if they
are available.BYu has to pay Utah $1.65 million and no ticket quota
to play at LES this August. I just love it!Goooooooo Utes!
@Aunty mythologyTo answer your question Utah won the National
Championship in football 2008. Just 3 months ago the Utah men's and
women's ski team won the National Championship with a 1st year coach.
MichiganCougfan68: "Remind of of the last time you or any other Utah fan
commenting on articles in Boulders newspapers? "Comment
"gear counts" are a uniquely BYU thing. Other than rivalry week, the
Sooners aren't trolling OSU Cowboys articles. Elkhorn would probably admit
Colorado and CSU don't troll each other. CougsandDawgs wouldn't say
UGA and Ga Tech constantly tweak each other. Oklahoma and Texas
dont copy and paste old national championships because they have real ones.
Sooners don't brag about the 1978 Heisman, because they've won 4 since
then.I think Cougars copy and paste old accomplishments on every Ute
article, because the power shift scares them. They used to be nationally
relevant, and now with the rise of USU, they hope to stay in-state relevant.
@phoenix - Gilbert, AZJune 6, 2019 7:54 a.m.46&2"At the end of the day, the Utes are in."In what.... . . . . ?. . . . . ?. . . . . ?the
Never had a single national HOF player club?"= = = = =PRO
Football Hall of Fame members (as of 2019):BYU (1) . . Steve
YoungU of U (1) . . Larry WilsonUSU (1) . . Merlin Olsen
Rosebowl call yet has the Big12 called yet? Utah has not accomplished what BYU
has? 2008 National Championship 2 undefeated seasons in 04 and 08. Ray Guy and
Lou Froze award winners in the same year. Winner of the South division of
Pac12. BYU took their ball and went independent because no one wanted them for
winning a couple WAC Championships. Because all the P5 commissioners saw BYU for
what they are a flash in a pan.
@ Rose Bowl,BYu football is almost extinct pal. It doesn't
sell, hasn't this century at all, and everyone that attended BYu in the WAC
"glory" years are grandparents, some great-grandparents in fact.Stop begging PAC12 Utah to schedule BYu sports!!!!!!U take
care dear soul!
I am a fan of Utah and BYU. I cheered for them both growing up. I think it is
great that Utah was invited to the Pac. At the time they were invited, BYU was
the stronger school athletically and academically. Everyone knows why BYU was
not invited to the Pac, whether they will admit to it or not. Sure it was
disappointing at the time but it is crucial that BYU stays with its mission. BYU
is still superior academically and that is what is most important. This is why
these universities exist. The fact is that most University of Utah students
couldn't come close to getting in BYU (check the grade point averages and
ACT scores. it isn't even close). I'll take academic prowess any day
over athletic. Let Utah have their Pac 12, BYU has the brains. I'll take
that every time.
Stop the game Utah does not need BYU play a team where Utah recruits take
players home in front of families so they can watch their sons play.If have to continue playing them. Make them come to RES every year? If they
want to play us make them play at our home. Or play BYU 2 years then USU 2
years. Take a break from BYU we should be playing USU over BYU.
Gotta luv the jealous angst of all of the little brothers.Deep down
they know that Utah will never match what BYU has already accomplished.Utah 🏈 = Indiana 🏈
@TrollPolice:First off - thanks for following Ute Nation so closely.
Every time you do so, you strengthen my argument. But mostly, we really
appreciate your support for all things Utah.My statement still
stands: every single one of you byu fans would trade places with Utah in a
heartbeat. You covet Utah's position in the P5. The one thing you
completely overlook is that if byu did get into a P5 conference (which will
never happen), you would still be able to keep your dirty, dusty, ancient
so-called "legacy". Trading places with Utah is about the here and now,
not 40 years ago. Nice try on the deflection while ignoring the obvious.So - keep on pretending that you're laughing. You can't hide
your tears.Go Utes!Onward and Upward!
@Elkhorn - Loveland, COIt's obvious that Utah and Colorado
don't care about each other except for it being a conf. game.Colorado fans don't constantly comment on Utah sports articles.Utah and BYU are traditional rivals and will continue to be. No matter
anyone's opinion on whether the game should be played or not.Every one can also debate why teams did or didn't get an invite to a
certain conf., etc. Much of which will be speculation and narrative to support
your own side. Whichever side that is.But the fact is, it
doesn't matter. It certainly doesn't change anything to have an
opinion about it.Utah is in the PAC12, BYU is independent, USU is in
the MWC. Not opinion of how or why is changing that.One thing that
is NOT debatable is that Independence, although many BYU fans seem to like it,
has produced very little, to nothing in terms of success from football and
basketball. My opinion is that BYU should join a conf. Preferably
a P5 for all sports but even a G5 would be better. Every major accomplishment
for BYU happened in the WAC. Nothing before and not much since.One
Aunty Mythology:"What good is being a P5 if you're stuck
with an empty broom closet as your 'Legacy'?"Your
failure to answer the question that was asked will be your tacit admission that
your "legacy" is a myth, and thus, nothing worth bragging about. Thank
you for helping me prove my point."You profess to be members of
the 'conference of champions', yet when did a Utah men's team
last win a real national championship in anything?"First of all,
I never dubbed us the "Conference of Champions". The media did. And
rightly so. After all, our league DOES have substantially more national
championships than any other league in the nation.Second, our last
national championship was won just 3-months ago, which know full well. Why else
would you apply a stag filter? . It matters not if the title was won by a
"men's" team, a "women's" team, or a "co-ed"
squad. That whole "must – be – a – men's –
team – title" is a metric you indy-WACers just made up in a desperate
attempt to minimize an athletic department who owns 22 nat'l titles -- more
than DOUBLE the total titles than in the bubble.Fail.
Marked it Down:As had already been reported here -- multiple times
-- Larry Scott and the Pac-10 "were looking to dump Oklahoma State". So
yeah, there was a chance. A pretty big one. An "inevitable" one to be
exact.Not sure why you indy-WACers are so quick to dismiss Utah,
when everybody knows that schools like Tx Tech, Okla St, and Baylor were
ankle-biters, trying to hitch a ride on Texas' coattails. Only Tech would
have been successful, as the Pac-10 had no intention to add OSU or BU. Or you
guys for that matter. Utah on the other hand WAS a desired commodity. So weep
on little brother! Your tears are delicious!
Navelvet “Orangebloods – a very legitimate source
– and even cougarboard had a long discussion about an additional article
that corroborated Chip Brown’s assertion that the Pac-10 had no interest
in bringing Okla St along. If the merger had succeeded, Utah would have been
stuck in the East division...”There was NO CHANCE of the
merger happening without Okla St. It was more likely that Colorado
would have left out.—Denver PostJune 10,
2010“Baylor officials began looking into options when reports
surfaced last week that the Pac-10 is considering expanding with up to six Big
12 schools: Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and
Colorado.Powerful Baylor alumni said today that the Texas State
Legislature is looking into ways to help their alma mater.”
Myth Machine:“Yet it's blatantly obvious from all news
reports of the merger negotiations that Utah would have been left on the outside
looking in if the merger had succeeded
There's no legitimate source
that you can cite where Utah was seriously considered as a substitute for any of
these teams, until the merger failed”Not so little bro. Not
only “can I”, I’d “already had”. I’d
already cited the Chip Brown article from Orangebloods – a very legitimate
source – and even cougarboard had a long discussion about an additional
article that corroborated Chip Brown’s assertion that the Pac-10 had no
interest in bringing Okla St along. If the merger had succeeded, Utah would
have been stuck in the East division, making boring annual roadies to places
like Lawrence, Norman, and Lubbock.We’re “IN”.
You’re NOT! Weep on little brother! Your tears are delicious!
There’s only one reason coug “fans” are so quick to diminish
Utah’s PAC invite. Jealousy and envy. Unless you were there at the
negotiations behind closed doors, you can only speculate and believe what you
read. Again, as it stands TODAY, the Utes ARE a PAC 12 member. It’s the same as if I auditioned for a huge band, major record label and
all, GOT the gig, then found out I was their 2nd, 3rd or 9th choice. I
wouldn’t care! I’d be happy that I made it where I wanted to be. And
very grateful, as I am for the Utes. @Naval VetAs
always, very much enjoy your comments! SO entertaining!!!
navel lintTrollPolice:"What good is your alleged
"legacy closet" if you're stuck being "midmajors
forever"?"What good is being a P5 if you're stuck with
an empty broom closet as your "Legacy"?You profess to be
members of the "conference of champions", yet when did a Utah men's
team last win a real national championship in anything?
I am a Ute fan and I have never commented on a byu article because I have never
read a byu article. It is hilarious how byu fans comment on every Ute article.
Your jealousy is very obvious. At the end of the day, who cares what went on 8
or 9 years ago. It is 2019 and the Utes play with the big boys while you are
TrollPolice:What good is your alleged "legacy closet" if
you're stuck being "midmajors forever"?P.S.: You guys
aren't really a "legacy" school. That whole "legacy
program" talk you indy-WACers repeat on these threads every day is a myth.
If you all really WERE a "legacy program" the Big 12 -- you know, the
"P5" league that has 2 membership vacancies -- would have invited you by
navel vet"It's quite obvious that you have no idea what
you're talking about. Larry Scott mentioned your big brother on the hill as
a Pac-10 target as early as Feb. 2010 -- 4 months PRIOR to Texas bailing on the
potential Pac-10/Big 12 South merger."Yet it's blatantly
obvious from all news reports of the merger negotiations that Utah would have
been left on the outside looking in if the merger had succeeded.There's no legitimate source that you can cite where Utah was seriously
considered as a substitute for any of these teams, until the merger failed:Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado.If Colorado and Utah were "tied at the hip", then why was
Colorado invited a full week before Utah?If the merger had
succeeded, Utah would have been left out in the cold.
VegasUte@Blue n gold: "Trade Independence for PAC 12
membership?- absolutely"Exactly. Thanks for proving
my point.It's hysterical that you deliberately omitted the 2nd
half of that response:Trade BYU’s Legacy Hall of Fame for Utah’s SOS trophy closet?- bwahaha 🤣 🥴
@Blue n gold:"Trade Independence for PAC 12 membership?- absolutely"Exactly. Thanks for proving my point.Go Utes!
mussingaround:"It’s quite obvious that utemythology is
once again making up his own 'facts'...Utah was never even mentioned
in the PAC 12 expansion discussion until two days AFTER the merger negotiations
failed."It's quite obvious that you have no idea what
you're talking about. Larry Scott mentioned your big brother on the hill
as a Pac-10 target as early as Feb. 2010 -- 4 months PRIOR to Texas bailing on
the potential Pac-10/Big 12 South merger.And for what it's
worth, that "Feb. 2010" date was the earliest date where Scott addressed
the Utes' candidacy to the media. But per fmr-Utah Athletic Director, Dr.
Hill and Texas A&M President, Michael Young, Utah had had discussions with
the Pac-10 even before Larry Scott was brought on as their Commissioner. How
miserable for you!#TruthBomb
Ute fans love talking about "relevance", but the truth is, the Utes
haven't done anything in their entire history that is truly nationally
relevant.- No consensus national championships- No #1 rankings
in either major poll, ever- No Heisman winners- No national hall of
fame players- Only two 11+ win seasons (both in the MWC)- Only six
conference championships in the last six decades, none in the PAC 12- Only
eight AP Top 25 finishes in your entire history- Only one division title
in a division in which only one opponent had a winning recordYou've gotten close a couple of times (4th in Coaches, 4th in the
Heisman), but like beating Kentucky in the NCAA tourney, never quite enough to
seal the deal.The truth is, you're the Indiana of the PAC 12, a
P5 member that does nothing but ride the coat tails of the big boys of the Big
TalkinKleenex - Gilbert, AZ46&2"At the end of
the day, the Utes are in."In what...“In a
Conference that gives us something to play for (all Conference awards, CCG,
etc)In a situation that’s given us really good home schedules
and upgraded facilitiesIn a situation where we’ve landed much,
much better recruits that wouldn’t have been possible had we been in the
Mtn West...or IndyOh, and there’s that little thing since
going INTO the PAC...3,476 days!🤣
Kleenex - Gilbert, AZYou can have your
past“accomplishments”. Because that’s ALL you got!
They’re ancient history, and are doing ABSOLUTELY nothing for the program
today. Since leaving the Mtn West, the cougs have been on a rapid decline. Why
not look at the present picture, and focus on the future?Let’s
discuss what independence has brought to the table thus far. And where we all
know it’s headed. Eight seasons is a pretty good measuring stick,
don’t ya think? Try not to respond with decades old accolades again, if
Phoenix: ""At the end of the day, the Utes are in." In
what..."The club that counts; the gift that keeps on giving.
The one that's relevant in this century, not when your grandfather played.
46&2"At the end of the day, the Utes are in."In what...the Never won a Consensus National Championship club?the Never been ranked #1 in either major poll club?the Never won a
Heisman club?the Never had a single national HOF player club?of course, we could go on and on and on about all of the national
accomplishments the Utes have Never achieved, but the real reason Utah fans
whine about BYU fans living in the past, is because the Utes have no past worth
bragging about.All-time AP Top 100#34 BYU - 258 points#63 Utah - 114 points
FACTchequer:You guys just can’t let it go, can you? I’m
impressed by all the concern you have. I wish I had that much passion for your
cougs as you do the U. At the end of the day, the Utes are in. That’s ALL
that matters! And it’s been a fun ride, with an exciting, bright future.
Indy is quite the opposite, isn’t it?At least you guys have
the time machine you can continually jump back into.
It’s quite obvious that utemythology is once again making up his own
“facts”.Utah was never even mentioned in the PAC 12
expansion discussion until two days AFTER the merger negotiations failed.Utah wasn’t until a full week after Colorado was invited, proving
Colorado and were NEVER a package deal.If the merger had succeeded,
the Utes would still be in the MWC.
utemythology versus RealityCalifornia Golden Bears BlogJune 4,
2010Merger Specifics: Six Big 12 teams (Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma
State, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech) would be invited to join the Pac-10.
---StarHeraldJune 9, 2010The college
sports landscape began a much-anticipated shift Thursday with the University of
Colorado accepting an invitation to join the Pac-10.---ESPNJune 10, 2010With Nebraska apparently headed to the Big
Ten, the Pac-10 is poised to become the Pac-16.Colorado already has
received an invitation to join the conference, while five other invitations will
be extended to Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech,
according to a source familiar with the negotiations.---FOXSportsJune 16, 2010Utah is poised to become the 12th
member of the Pac-10 as the conference quickly pivoted Wednesday to invite the
Utes after being turned down by Texas and four other members of the Big 12 two
days ago.---Utah wasn't invited to join the PAC 12
until TWO DAYS AFTER the merger failed.Utah was NEVER part of
"Plan A", more like Plan P or Q, after every
other possibility had been rejected.
utemythology “Scott didn't hastily invite Colorado, since
they with Utah was Plan A for PAC-12.”NOPE!If
Colorado & Utah were Plan A, then why weren’t they invited at the same
time?* crickets *The real Plan A was P10 - B12 South (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St and Colorado)If Plan A had succeeded, Utah would still be in the MWC.
VegasUte - “Every single byu fan posting on these articles
would trade places with Utah in a nano-second...”Trade
Independence for PAC 12 membership?- absolutelyTrade BYU’s Legacy Hall of Fame for Utah’s SOS trophy
closet?- bwahaha 🤣 🥴 😂
Every single byu fan posting on these articles would trade places with Utah in a
nano-second, despite their negative diatribes about the P5 conference that
throws them games year after year. As it stands, the PAC is the only reason byu
can claim 4 or 5 P5 games a year. Without Utah, byu would have been stuck with
only 3 P5 opponents (like in 2014) more times than not.Face the
facts:1- byu needs Utah2- Utah is fine without byu3- byu
needs the PAC 4- byu fans covet PAC membership5- Nine is nighGo Utes!
utemythology “Scott didn't hastily invite Colorado, since
they with Utah was Plan A for PAC-12”The timeline proves your
spin is totally FALSE!Colorado was WHILE the merger was still being
negotiated.Utah wasn’t invited until AFTER the merger had
Swoop - Salt Lake City, UTJune 4, 2019 8:18 a.m.utemythology The merger failed because of numerous issues, but the reason Larry Scott
hastily invited Colorado was to shut Baylor out of the merger.------That is your fantasy, stop it!The merger failed
for the same reason why the WAC imploded, the diva wanted more money.Scott didn't hastily invite Colorado, since they with Utah was Plan A for
PAC-12.Plan B was Texas for PAC-16 but the diva wouldn't agree
to equal profit sharing.
Harlan is obviously smart enough to ignore the temper tantrums of the
Squirt: "Dude, you are the minority in your own fan base. The overwhelming
majority of Utah's fan base see the value and entertainment in this
game."Dude, you should probably stick to speaking for your own
MichiganCougfan68: "Remind of of the last time you or any other Utah fan
commenting on articles in Boulders newspapers? "Remind us the
last time the Colorado state legislature forced the U to play a religious
“You obviously don’t know much about the details of the failed PAC
10 / Big 12 South merger.”Swept:Isn’t it
hilarious that as much as BYU-P fans diss the Pac12, they claim to know EVERY
single detail of the conference’s recent history? So typically coog!
utemythology The merger failed because of numerous issues, but the
reason Larry Scott hastily invited Colorado was to shut Baylor out of the
merger.Texas legislators were already talking about forcing Baylor
to be part of the merger just like they did when the remnants of the SWC and the
Big 8 merged.You obviously don’t know much about the details
of the failed PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger.
@ekute - Layton, UTJune 3, 2019 9:09 a.m."I'm starting to
wonder why only one fan base so desperate to keep it going and so afraid to take
a break."Dude, you are the minority in your own fan base. The
overwhelming majority of Utah's fan base see the value and entertainment in
this game.Imagine you are a new AD and, despite your fans and donors
wanting you to dump a series, you not only extend it, but continue to come out
publicly supporting it. You were hired and are being paid millions for being an
intelligent savvy sports mind. Does this make any sense? If this were fact you
would be terminated pretty quick.I enjoy this game every year. Per
Harlen, the Utah players enjoy this game every year. Per the ratings, fans
nationally love this game every year. Per it being on opening night and on
ESPN, advertisers love this game every year.I know you are an
obsessed fan, but please use some of that intelligence and ability for rational
thought you remind me Utah alums are known for.
@RoadCoogBYU was not invited to the PAC-12 due to religious
issues- That's an absolute FACT Jack- The same reason that
prompted Larry Scott to hastily invite Colorado, before the merger was
finalized, to shut Baylor out of the discussion.-------FACT: BYU and Baylor, both were NEVER considered for PAC-10 membership.There was no meger being finalized since Texas wouldn't agree to
equal revenue sharing.In 2012, Texas and Oklahoma were rejected for
PAC-12 membership. BYU again was never considered.
Why not schedule BYU easy win for Utah always has been. But Harlan we are tired
of BYU and their fans bring in someone challenging to play.
Cougsndawgs - West Point , UTJune 3, 2019 1:49 p.m.ekute:"byu needs Utah more than they need "UW, Cal, and
Stanford"."Why? So long as BYU can schedule h/h with more
traditional Pac12 powers why do they need U more than those powers? That's
just ludicrous.-----No it's not, BUY needs need the
U to sell out LES.
“ When was the last time Utah fans rushed the field three times getting
two penalties at the end of a Utah-CU game?”You post as if it
occurred last year.....How many years has it been now?That’s
what I thought.....8 straight & counting.Go Utes!
Packers,Remind of of the last time you or any other Utah fan commenting on
articles in Boulders newspapers? When was the last time Utah fans rushed the
field three times getting two penalties at the end of a Utah-CU game? When have
Utah fans ever rushed the field after beating the Buffs? Before Utah was invited
to join the Pac 12 when was the last football game between Utah and CU?
As for why BYU wasn't invited to the Pac10, I don't think it had as
much to do with "religious bigotry" as some folks want to believe. I
don't remember what writer explained it during the realignment frenzy but
essentially he described being in a conference like being in a club, and either
you're a good fit or you're not (something similar to what JustGordon
said). That's it, in a nutshell...BYU wasn't a good
cultural or academic fit, Utah was...it's that simple. Any conference has a
right to choose it's members based on whatever criteria they want, period.
Despite the made up hysteria about playing BYU not being a benefit to Utah,Utah has never even been close to being a legitimate contender for a CFP
berth, so Utah's OOC SOS is totally irrelevant.Since the PAC 12 has an unbalanced schedule (4 home/5 away or 5 home/4
away)Utah always schedules a auto-win, one-and-done with an FCS
opponent as a warm up game and to ensure that Utah always has at least 6 homes
games, often 7.Adding a bottom dwelling MWC team ensures that Utah
will have at least two guaranteed wins every season.To qualify for a
bowl, all Utah has to do is win four PAC 12 games and they're bowl eligible
- easy peasy.The truth is, "beefing" up Utah's OOC
schedule is just a convenient excuse for Utah running away from BYU, just like the Utes already did to Utah St, so that the mighty weak Utes would
never have to risk being embarrassed in Logan ever again.
ekute:"byu needs Utah more than they need "UW, Cal, and
Stanford"."Why? So long as BYU can schedule h/h with more
traditional Pac12 powers why do they need U more than those powers? That's
Do your homework BYU homers...it is easy to say BYU was not selected by the
PAC10 over Utah because of religion biases. The reality is, Utah administrators
were meeting with PAC10 AD's, Presidents, and Conference officials for a
long time trying to show them they were ready if the opportunity presented
itself. It is fact that BYU administrators didn't even come close to this
amount of pre-decision face time with these powers that be. Did that make the
difference? Maybe, maybe not...but it is clear that it helped Utah. If the BYU
administrators had put in that same effort...maybe things wouldn't have
been different...but I am tired of hearing BYU guys say they got discriminated
against when their school did very little to influence the decision makers...in
addition...rather than just selling themselves in the few meetings they
had...they had to make push their demands such as no playing on Sunday's
instead of just selling themselves. Utah was smart enough to realize who they
were and made ZERO demands and even agreed to not take a full share for several
Cougsndawgs,byu needs Utah more than they need "UW, Cal, and
Stanford". You won't say it...but you know...You also know
that it wouldn't matter if we got stuck playing Idaho State, Toledo, and
Umass...we still wouldn't need byu.
"Stupid of the PAC 12 not to include BYU, but religious prejudice prevented
that." If the Pac 10 had invited BYU, then they would not
have invited Utah. The Pac 10 was not going to add two teams from the same
State. The Pac 10 wanted to add TV Markets and adding two teams to get one
market would make no sense. Some in the Pac 10 let their biases
get the best of them and this prevented any acceptance of BYU. You are correct
Harlan is smart enough to ignore the whiny complaints of a few insecure ankle
biters when evaluating the value of continuing a century-old rivalry.
FACT vs FictionThere is no value of the game to Utah- Totally
FALSE - see nationally televised game on ESPN for August 2019- That's
1000% more valuable to Utah than opening at home versus a Big Sky patsyThey have publicly stated the game is their Super Bow l- NO BYU official
has ever said thisUtah has beaten them and dropped in the polls - Utah has also beaten BYU and risen in the pollsBYU was not
invited to the PAC-12 due to religious issues- That's an absolute
FACT Jack- The same reason that prompted Larry Scott to hastily invite
Colorado, before the merger was finalized, to shut Baylor out of the discussion.
ekute:"I'm starting to wonder why only one fan base so desperate
to keep it going and so afraid to take a break."I try not to
speak for all Y fans, just as U shouldn't speak for all U fans, but I
couldn't care less if utah is ever on the schedule again (though I would
like to see them on UGA's schedule along with Oregon and UCLA). I think most Y fans realize they have h/h schedules with far more traditional
powers in the Pac12 than U. I think many Y fans keep ribbing U because of the
obvious hubris and "legends-in-their-own-minds" mentality of SOME utah
fans that they think they're something they are not. U don't deserve 2
for 1s if UW, Cal, and Stanford haven't desperately suggested them...U do
see that these are bigger name programs than U, right?
You've got to be minding me. What "insensitive thoughts" were in
this denied post? It's all fact and you continue to allow posts of lies
saying that BYU-P was not invited to the PAC-12 because of religious
discrimination. Now that's being insensitive.- There is no
value of the game to Utah- True- They have publicly stated the game is
their Super Bowl- True- Utah has beaten them and dropped in the polls-
True- BYU-P was not invited to the PAC-12 due to religious issues-
False"Please explain the value to the "rivalry" with
BYU-P. The value is all to them, nothing to Utah. It's their admitted Super
Bowl and Utah has beaten them and subsequently dropped in the polls. There is no
value in that. And no, Blue Husky, you were not invited to the PAC 12 because of
This USU thing is funny. A year ago, AD Hartwell from USU lied publicly that he
had talked with Harlan when he had not. It is good to see they have now talked.
That being said, there is nothing to gain by Utah by playing Utah State...it
would be there superbowl. If they did play them...I would only play them at
eCutie"And now I'm wondering what they think it is that
we're running from."That's the real question
isn't it.Why are some Utah fans so scared of playing BYU?We've already unmasked the bogus excuse of Utah trying to
"improve" their OOC SOS.If that were really the case, the
Utes would START by dropping the Big Sky teams from their schedule.
And now I'm wondering what they think it is that we're running from.
I'm laughing at the flimsy excuses our delicate little friends on the hill
keep coming up with to run away from BYU.Safety first!
I'm starting to wonder why only one fan base so desperate to keep it going
and so afraid to take a break.
He's beginning to see just how bogus the arguments for ending the rivalry
He's starting to see how the rivalry only benefits one side.
Harlan has done a great job ignoring the frantic calls by a few precious, but
insecure souls, to end the rivalry.
packers - roy, UTJune 2, 2019 10:14 a.m.“Blue..You do know
that Utah/Colorado is actually a much better rivalry than the BYU one, the two
teams have been playing each other since 1905...”Don’t
kid yourself; that’s just made up BYU-hating propaganda.As
soon as Utah and Colorado joined separate conferences in the early 60’s,
the Utes and Buffalos went their separate ways and didn’t schedule a
single game until they were once again forced to play each other when both
joined the PAC 12 nearly a half-century later.Except for the Utes
being a conference opponent, Colorado fans couldn’t care less about U.
Way to go girls on the Gymnastic Team, one of the firmest and brilliant athletes
over the years at The University of Utah. I've already paid for season
tickets for the next season.
The lows are Harlan readiness to deal with byu in sports. Shame he did it, hope
he will stop.
@ UteologyWinning games in the NCAA tourney is the standard. Many
make the tourney. @ BlueCougarThe CU/Utah game has been
the most important of the season in terms of Utah winning the South... as
Packers pointed out there is plenty of CU/Utah history. With Utah
and BYU not being in the same conference, this game should never be played in
November. If played, it should be the first game of the season. The
biggest rivalry in Utah was Utah/Utah State. More history, BYU did a
lot to keep Utah State our the new WAC. Now Utah State has a voice to keep BYU
out of the MWC. I think the blue fan base should be a bit more
respectful and worry about independence. The best thing to happen to Utah State
in the last 50 years was to join a conference. Independence didn’t work
for them either.
BlueHusky - "Utah vs Colorado is not a rivalry. Stupid of the PAC 12 not to
include BYU."By that logic, the PAC should have taken Colorado and
Colorado State.Instead, they took the best universities from each state
(conference associations are about more than just football)."but
religious prejudice prevented the PAC from taking BYU"More likely the
reason was "entitlement and laziness". Chris Hill lobbied hard and for
many years promoting the case to take Utah. Down south, their case for
inclusion was "you'd be fools not to take us. Remember 1984?" It
didn't impress the PAC nor the Big12 (twice).
Krystkowiak must make the NCAA this year, else we need to see how to better
spend the $3.8M. That being said, the talent he's bringing in now is
impressive, 8 4-star players on the roster or commits.BYU used to
play 2-for-1 vs Utah State. Utah must now do the same with BYU/Utah State,
rotating every 3 years.
There were lots of reasons why our little blue brothers didn't get an
invite to join the PAC10 when UTAH did. Religious prejudice was not one of
them. However, playing the "victim card" of religious prejudice every
chance one gets doesn't make it any truer.Our little blue
brothers are NOT a Tier 1 research facility. Our little blue brothers have lots
of limits on intellectual freedom and what can be taught based on religious
doctrine. That's OK, they are a church school. I am sure Bob Jones
University doesn't teach evolution, either.On the flip side,
joining a conference is more than just playing major/minor and Olympic sports.
It's becoming part of a fraternity/sorority of like-minded individuals
involved in intellectual pursuits. The present "club members" are free
to choose who to add and who not to add based on many factors. Obviously, our
little blue brothers were not a desirable addition for the PAC's
intellectual collaboration and research. Interestingly enough the Big12
wasn't interested either. Are they too prejudiced?
Blue..You do know that Utah/Colorado is actually a much better rivalry than the
byu one, the two teams have been playing each other since 1905, have played 63
games, with each team winning 30 times (3 ties) the average score of the games
14.75 to 14.54 for the Utes..much better than the 58 to 31 difference plus the
overall scoring differential of 24.11 to 18.78 for the Utes versus BYU, so I
really wouldn't say "nobody cares about" the game, it has a lot
more at stake for Utah (Pac-12 South Title) than the BYU game does and those are
the FACTS!! Go Utes
Good morning first two commenters (both BYU-P fans on a Utah article)...thanks
for paying your rent for the day.Highs: Football team, most Olympic
sports.Lows: Basketball, keeping BYU-P on the schedule in all sports.
The Utah State comment was interesting. In the PAC 12 we have UW and WSU, Oregon
and OSU, Az and ASU. We have Stanford (private) vs Cal. We have USC (private)
vs UCLA. Utah vs BYU is the biggest rivalry in the state but many
Utahns want to stop all competition between Utah vs BYU and Utah vs Utah
State.Utah vs Colorado is not a rivalry. Stupid of the PAC 12 not to
include BYU, but religious prejudice prevented that. That would have still left
out USU. Personally I like BYU's independence in football.
I'm not a Utahn, so I don't care much about the Utah-BYU rivalry. But
I do believe Utah-BYU would be a much better rivalry than Utah-Colorado, which
is a game nobody cares about.
The U has a proud tradition that has taken some lumps on the hardwoods lately.
I suspect that Harlan's first "big" decision will be not when, but
how to replace the basketball coach.
What lows? Reading u fans comments it’s all unicorns and rainbows on the