Hundreds in Utah join nationwide abortion law protests

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  • Furry1993 MSC, UT
    May 30, 2019 12:17 p.m.

    @1aggie - Salt Lake City, UT
    May 21, 2019 8:50 p.m.
    Okay girls,
    No birth control measure is 100% effective. Therefore, we ought not be engaged in lovemaking for anything but creating new life, period, end of sentence.

    Let all women unite around celibacy!

    -----

    Sounds good. AND require that when a couple, married or unmarried, want to have sex, the woman has to specifically agree before anything happens. The decision whether to risk pregnancy should be specifically, and only, hers.

  • TruthForager Salt Lake City, UT
    May 26, 2019 1:37 p.m.

    Hundreds in Utah join protest, but millions don't. Of course there will be some that will be supporting and some that won't. I don't understand why there is news about so few. I'm not complaining, just curious.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    May 24, 2019 5:41 p.m.

    I can hardly wait for SCOTUS to rule on these despicable state laws. (New York, Virginia et al)

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    May 22, 2019 7:03 p.m.

    @not status quo: "The supreme court has ruled on this.. Roe Vs Wade. If you don'tlike the law, change it. Don't just disobey it."

    That is the entire point. There is no "law" that says abortion must be legal. There is just a 40 year old supreme court ruling that says government can't restrict abortion except late in the pregnancy.

    So we can't "change the law", we have to pass a law that challanges Roe and then appeal it through the courts to see if the Supreme Court will allow a law to be enforced, in effect overturning (parts of) Roe v Wade.

  • China is Spying ,
    May 22, 2019 3:48 p.m.

    Are the "pro choice" protesters also in favor of fathers being able to choose whether or not to pay child support?

  • water rocket , 00
    May 22, 2019 2:20 p.m.

    "hundreds protest
    while hundreds of thousands are cheering the effort to protect the unborn, who have no voice. (yet).

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    May 22, 2019 2:01 p.m.

    lost in DC - West Jordan, UT
    ---
    Are not laws that allow “unwanted” newborns to be dropped off at hospitals – no questions asked – controls over those newborns’ bodies?
    ---

    The operative word is 'viability', and most laws that permit abortion take that into account. When the fetus is viable, then there are other considerations, which may result in an abortion, usually when the mother's life is in danger. If the 'pro-life' crowd were truly consistent they'd eliminate that option as well.

    But they aren't. The oft quoted 'except in rape or incest'. Again the pro-life crowd shows it hypocrisy in these exceptions. If 'personhood' begins at conception, then it doesn't matter how the conception was achieved, loving couple, brutal rape, or parents with their children or other relatives. Remember Lot's daughters.

    As for the rest of the examples, most are on the order of choices. The society may limit minors' access to alcohol, cigarettes, etc. but limiting adults with prohibitions for these items have been proven spectacularly unable to induce the desired result.

    People chose to do things to their body. In so far as possible, they should have that choice without legal restrictions.

  • RockOn1224 Spanish Fork, UT
    May 22, 2019 1:52 p.m.

    Irony. Liberals protest limits on abortions and lead the way in having abortions. So liberals have fewer children to raise and teach that a fetus is just a bunch of meaningless cells. In the end, their point of view is a dead end.
    Conservative women have more children who they teach the sanctity of life, who marry and have more children.
    Liberalism and the abortion industry...your days are numbered. Literally.

  • E4Evry1 Cedar Hills, UT
    May 22, 2019 12:30 p.m.

    I am pro-choice too. That is everyone deserves the right to choose whether they do things that could get them pregnant. If you don't want to get pregnant or have a baby, then don't have sex. If you do want to get pregnant and have a baby, then have sex. Everyone has a choice. But once you make your choice and create a life, then you have made your choice, and you need to live with your choice. You have brought a third person into your equation, and you need to respect that life!! Your Choice, Your child!! If you don't want your child, then please give it up to a couple who are praying for a child!! Allow that child to experience their life!

    In addition, I 100% support the "My Body, My Choice" argument. I am fine with woman making choices regarding their own bodies. But a baby's body inside you IS NOT your own body. It is another human being's body with its own brain and heart. As human beings, we should be doing all we can to protect the bodies of the innocent and unborn. I hold my little 4 yr old boy, and it just breaks my heart that it is legal to kill beautiful children just like him still in the womb. Disrespect for human life is heart breaking. Every child deserves to live!!

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    May 22, 2019 12:12 p.m.

    oldbasketball - Draper, UT
    ---
    I see a lot of little girls in the picture. I wonder who is bringing them to gatherings like this. I think they should just enjoy their childhood without someone telling them how great it is to have an abortion.
    ---

    The children, girls in particular are not being told how great an abortion may be, but that they have a choice.

    Pro-Life is not about the fetus, it is about eliminating choice for women.

    If Pro-Life were truly sincere in their 'pro' life, they would support social programs so that whatever economic factor that may be part of a woman's choice, would be virtually eliminated.

    Such things as Well Infant care, expanded, childcare, expanded to meet the needs of working mothers, school lunches, expanded to meet the needs of all the children attending.

    What do we here from conservatives, the advocates of Pro-Life, "Tough luck, you got your self pregnant you take care of the child on your own."

    And of course never any criticism for men lacking in responsibility to take precautions in the first place. In fact there's a constant whine about child support from men, and how taxing it is on them.

    The simplest answer is take preventative action.

  • oldbasketball Draper, UT
    May 22, 2019 11:32 a.m.

    I see a lot of little girls in the picture. I wonder who is bringing them to gatherings like this. I think they should just enjoy their childhood without someone telling them how great it is to have an abortion.

  • LMNOP Barstow, CA
    May 22, 2019 11:23 a.m.

    Funny thing here. Everyone supporting abortion were not aborted, so now they have a voice. Those being aborted will never !

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    May 22, 2019 11:20 a.m.

    dmcvey
    The comment about the signatory was in response to shamrock’s complaint about men telling women what to do. I was merely letting shamrock know it was a woman, not a man, "telling women what to do".

    Government should not be controlling people’s bodies? Really?

    Are not proscriptions against assault and murder to some degree controls on people’s bodies?

    Are not laws that allow “unwanted” newborns to be dropped off at hospitals – no questions asked – controls over those newborns’ bodies?

    Are not mandatory vaccination laws controls over people’s bodies?

    Are not minimum age requirements to purchase and consume alcohol and tobacco controls over people’s bodies?

    Are not seat belt and motorcycle helmet laws controls over people’s bodies?

    we should do away with all those controls over people's bodies?

  • lindaj72 SF, CA
    May 22, 2019 10:38 a.m.

    There are some very good comments here. Too many to note, but those who are not going to the standard conversations such as "this is my body and I can do what I want, etc.) is refreshing. Yes, it is your body but it is on loan to you and what you do with your body has consequences. I have two living children and they are a blessing to me. One of my two is disabled and he has never been convenient but at 36 he is a joy in my life as is my normal son. I had a daughter who was profoundly disabled who lived to be 24. She had needs beyond my capabilities but she was also a blessing in my life. I treasure my children who lived (2 others miscarriaged). None of it has been convenient. At one time I pursued a music career, but my children needed me. I have no regrets. How could I ever have aborted any of them?

  • dmcvey Los Angeles, CA
    May 22, 2019 9:00 a.m.

    @ lost in DC

    The sex of the person who signed this has nothing to do with anything. The government should not be controlling people's bodies. It's amazing that supposed "small government" conservatives want the government controlling women's bodies.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    May 22, 2019 8:16 a.m.

    Shamrock
    The Alabama law was signed by – a WOMAN.

    If one is not sexually responsible, are they worthy of trust?

    Helmsman
    Their personal decisions do not matter? You mean they have no choice whether or not to have sex? What a horribly chauvinistic attitude!

    Lilly
    Who besides you injected religion into this? But you are right, women should not be forced to have sex, it should be consensual. And since she should have a choice, does she bear no responsibility for preventing pregnancy should she not want to get pregnant?

    And Utah allows exemptions your later comment says are not there.

    EDM
    Everyone deserves health care? They deserve access, but do not deserve to demand others pay for it.

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    May 22, 2019 8:15 a.m.

    @Ranch - it's ironic that those promoting abortion have already been born.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    May 22, 2019 8:01 a.m.

    Simple fact fetuses do not survive outside the womb at 20 weeks, at 22 weeks, and probably not at 24 weeks...despite heartbeats, brain activity, and wiggling toes. Why because all those things have not been connected as a system yet, and rely on the womb environment to accomplish that.

    So, until then despite all your little fantasies it is a group of growing cells inside the mother and not what we consider a "baby".

    To conservative scientist, the argument is not that at viability the child can "survive on it's own" outside the womb. It's the child (and yes it is now a child) can survive outside the womb with appropriate normal human care. Get it straight.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    May 22, 2019 7:36 a.m.

    It's interesting that all those telling women to refrain from sex are probably having sex themselves. Makes you wonder.

  • payara OREM, UT
    May 22, 2019 7:27 a.m.

    100s protest....meanwhile millions side with the babies. It IS your body so use protection.

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    May 22, 2019 7:09 a.m.

    When abortion first became a "thing" many years ago, it seemed obvious that it was being pushed by less-than-honorable men. At the time, the predominant story line was men paying for black market abortions in order to avoid the social and financial responsibilities of fathering a child out of wedlock. And now it appears that these men have convinced women that they - women - are the real beneficiaries of legalized abortion. But they're not. There's a reason Norma McCorvey, the "Roe" in Roe v. Wade, changed her mind about abortion.

    I almost think that what a lot of women are protesting is the unequal burden they bear, by virtue of the biology of being a woman, in the reproductive act. But that "burden", viewed in the proper context, is in reality a marvelous blessing and privilege that no man can have.

  • Yorkshire Logan, UT
    May 22, 2019 5:14 a.m.

    We thankfully don't end the lives of those who are old, and inconvenient.

    Or unwell or not correct or whole---in some of innumerable ways.
    And thus inconvenient.

    "...we should ever revere the worth of human life, through each of its many stages." Russell M. Nelson

  • OldSalt94 West Jordan, UT
    May 22, 2019 3:25 a.m.

    This somehow ended up in the feedback section...so I’ll try again...
    I saw this quote the other day but forget the author right now...

    “It’s interesting that everyone protesting for abortion has already been born.”

  • not status quo Bountiful, UT
    May 22, 2019 1:03 a.m.

    The supreme court has ruled on this.. Roe Vs Wade. If you don't like the law, change it. Don't just disobey it.

  • Cambodian Girl Annapolis, MD
    May 21, 2019 11:31 p.m.

    When I look at those faces, I can't help to think that they had mother's who went through nine months thus allowing them to be born. Did all of them grow up in perfect families? I doubt it, but they at least had the chance to live, grow and learn. Don't we owe it to the unborn to give them an opportunity to experience life, love and happiness? Shouldn't they be allowed to fulfill the measure of their creation? I think so and I'm positive God thinks so.

  • Ben there, Done that! Sun Prairie, WI
    May 21, 2019 10:58 p.m.

    @ FullyPresent

    If you are going to extrapolate all of those cost of having a children then you will need to add in what that child will make over a life time which will range between $2 to $4 million. I've always maintained that a family with more children has a bigger safety net for both the parents and siblings are there are more members of the family to ask for help.

    This point doesn't even include all the priceless moments of being part of a family. Nor does it take into account that those living below the poverty line have many financial resources to turn to or if need be the child can be given up for adoption.

    You don't have to be female to protect another person's life and stand up for the defenseless.

  • EDM Castle Valley, Utah
    May 21, 2019 10:49 p.m.

    @ matman

    “Every life is precious.”

    Thank you. I think we all agree. But we should be asking, Why the fight to protect the yet-to-be-born over those who are living? If every life is precious, every life deserves health care. The far right generally stops caring once the fetus is born.

  • EDM Castle Valley, Utah
    May 21, 2019 10:49 p.m.

    @ matman

    “Every life is precious.”

    Thank you. I think we all agree. But we should be asking, Why the fight to protect the yet-to-be-born over those who are living? If every life is precious, every life deserves health care. The far right generally stops caring once the fetus is born.

  • Lilly Munster , 00
    May 21, 2019 10:23 p.m.

    So, we have no understanding, much less compassion, for the women who will die and leave their husbands and children motherless, because their pregnancy, in one of eleven or more medical conditions that will kill them? When you understand the fact that pregnancy is often a death sentence, for both mother and child she is carrying, you have to understand the value of choice. Or do you prefer to condemn these women to death, because it fits you assumptions about pregnancy?

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    May 21, 2019 10:04 p.m.

    Women have been making their own decisions since the Garden of Eden. What matters is if they make decisions based on the needs of others or their own desires. Has the nation become a better place since abortion was legalized? Do we have more compassionate citizens, more reverence for life, less crime and suicide?

    I am certainly in need of making improvements myself, and I hope I am trying. However, I am so glad that I do not have to remember having an abortion (since I haven't). Instead I have interesting and beneficial contact with the son who was an inconvenient pregnancy (not just inconvenient; my health was not good for several months, my finances suffered, my education was put on hold and I had no spouse to offer support). I adamantly state I do not regret any of those aspects. I learned a lot! Though I was a WWII baby, I can still climb to precarious places, ride a bike with grandchildren and be part of a business operation. I don't believe my life was diminished by those unwanted nine months; possibly it is much richer. This probably sounds boastful, for which I apologize, but I am pro-life, and do not apologize for that.

  • Lilly Munster , 00
    May 21, 2019 9:25 p.m.

    No one has the right to impose their religious personal beliefs on others. Women being told what to do in every facet of their lives is tyranny.

  • KSM's Dad Ogden, UT
    May 21, 2019 9:12 p.m.

    @Helmsman “This law tells women their personal decisions do not matter.”

    On the contrary. Their personal decisions are paramount because the decision to end a human life matters a great deal. Or their decision to put a child up for adoption matters Immeasurable to a couple waiting for a baby who can’t have one of their own. The their decision to engage in sex without taking steps to prevent pregnancy is monumental. Their decisions matter immensely, and it’s foolish and irresponsible to think or say otherwise.

    @Sneaky Jimmy “no male should be allowed to make a law to control and possibly remove legal rights from a female...”. How many female children lost their life to the abortion law put in place by males?

    It’s sad the only people who support abortion are the ones who were born.

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    May 21, 2019 9:02 p.m.

    I think all this talk about penalties for miscarriages is a red herring to try to get more people to turn "pro-choice." I can't see why anyone in Utah needs to waste time getting involved in protests when Utah laws regarding abortion are reasonable (perhaps making abortions too easy to have).

    I also think that women who protest that they are not incubators or protesting that they should have control over their own bodies are forgetting that women are given the incredible privilege of giving birth. It is an incredible opportunity, and if it is unwanted, don't participate in sex. The Utah law does make exception for rape. It is also wrong to lead young women to believe that they should be able to have abortions just because they "own their bodies." This is a moral issue that has become distorted into selfishness and convenience.

  • bamafone Salem, UT
    May 21, 2019 9:00 p.m.

    The thought I had looking at the faces in that crowd was, they all have a mother.

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    May 21, 2019 8:50 p.m.

    Okay girls,
    No birth control measure is 100% effective. Therefore, we ought not be engaged in lovemaking for anything but creating new life, period, end of sentence.

    Let all women unite around celibacy!

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    May 21, 2019 8:48 p.m.

    According to a 2017 report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the average cost of raising a child from birth through age 17 is $233,610.
    Urban South‎: ‎$232,050Urban Northeast‎: ‎$264,090
    Urban Midwest‎: ‎$227,400Urban West‎: ‎$245,460

    The average cost to have a baby in the US, without complications during delivery, is $10,808— which can increase to $30,000 when factoring in care provided before and after pregnancy. When considering the fact that in the US, 2,684,803 mothers had a vaginal birth and 1,258,581 mothers had a c-section in 2016, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that's a lot of money going into the healthcare system just from maternity costs.

    Cost of having a baby: (Utah)
    Vaginal birth with insurance: $5,454.84
    Vaginal birth without insurance: $9,919.41
    C-section with insurance: $8,132.89
    C-section without insurance: $13,887.42

    It is more expensive to delivery a baby in the U.S. than in any other country.

    So, we are going to legally force women to pay this who have been raped, are victims of incest, have medical issues, or had failures of birth control and can't pay all this? And, the dad's just walk free?

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    May 21, 2019 8:32 p.m.

    Too many people get abortions with little thought to what they are doing and with no regard for the child they are carrying. The other extreme is not allowing any woman to have one for medical reasons or even in cases of rape or incest. We have to find some middle ground with regard to everyone's rights. There is no birth control which is 100% effective other than no sex at all which is not reasonable or realistic for the high majority of the public. Until then, this is a significant factor.

    It also comes down to how deep into people's sexual lives, their bedrooms, their bodies, and personal decisions do we want to let the gov't go? In deciding this the ear muffs need to go on when it comes to listening to the extreme left and the extreme right. The extremists are dangerous to sound reasoning, policies and laws, and democracy as a whole.

  • CabezaMan Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 21, 2019 8:14 p.m.

    Hmmm, after reading other's comments, chastity and abstinence for women and men seems to have a certain amount of logic. Less complicated too. As for married couples, are there really any unwanted pregnancies? And unplanned is not the same as unwanted. I couldn't imagine anything more illogical.

  • The Great Helmsman Salt Lake City, UT
    May 21, 2019 7:02 p.m.

    This law tells women their personal decisions do not matter. It tells them their futures do not matter, what government says goes. States have rights to regulate abortion at the point of viability, which is 24 weeks into a pregnancy.

    Six weeks, the “heartbeat” threshold, is a pre-viability point. At that point, no embryo is capable of surviving outside of the womb.

    This is all nonsense to allow government to control women.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    May 21, 2019 4:54 p.m.

    @jeclar2006: "Then there's good news. apron 98% of all abortions stats recorded by the CDC occur within 20 weeks."

    So why is anyong protesting? Utah's law allows for exceptions in the case of the life of the mother or the death of the baby. (Come on, try calling it a baby rather than a fetus. Does it change your view of the situation? At 20+ weeks, it is a baby.)

    "Is that too much to ask of men?"

    Of course not. The law recognizes this. Women get to decide whether to carry or terminate, and if to carry, whether to adopt or keep. Men get child support based entirely on the woman's decision.

    Is it too much to ask of women to use reliable birth control, and then maybe a condom as well to avoid spreading STDs? Would not that eliminate 95% of all abortions?

    @shamrock: "... important principles for male conservatives, but ..."

    Kind of like liberals love personal liberties and control of one's body for abortion, but not for owning a gun, nor declining unwanted vaccinations.

    Pointing out the inconsistencies on each side's talking points vs details doesn't really advance the debate. Hypotheticals about men getting pregnant are no more useful than about Hitler not being born.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    May 21, 2019 4:45 p.m.

    Autonomy and small government are important principles for male conservatives, but they don't trust the female of the species to control their own lives. Just imagine if men could get pregnant, and we had laws requiring them to endure all the hardships of pregnancy for nine months and go through the agony of childbirth, regardless of circumstance, there'd be an outcry of the likes we've never heard before.

  • Thomas Paine South Jordan, UT
    May 21, 2019 4:43 p.m.

    Let’s fight for our right to take something so wonderful and beautiful and make it so utterly horrendous that we can justify taking away life from the most innocent.

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    May 21, 2019 4:41 p.m.

    RiDal - Sandy, UT
    ---
    At the core of every moral question is probably a legitimate gray area; but certainly abortion after 18 weeks, when a human heartbeat can typically be detected and within two weeks of when preemies are already known to be able to survive independently, becomes almost impossible to justify, except in an extreme case of protecting the life of the mother.
    ---

    Then there's good news. apron 98% of all abortions stats recorded by the CDC occur within 20 weeks. The remaining approx 2% are distributed over the remanning pregnancy period, and usually in the latest stages are due to such events as death of the fetus, or other sever complications.

    If you want to quibble over 18 vs 20 weeks, well, that is all it is, since over 90% of all abortsion are with in 13 weeks.

    The argument style of "what if your mother... ?" is a ridiculous style since we can also ask the rhetorical question of 'Had Hitler's mother spontaneously miscarried, would the world have been a better place?"

    And of course if men don't what to become fathers, or faced with a pregnancy where a woman may consider abortion, they can learn a bit of restraint.

    Is that too much to ask of men?

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    May 21, 2019 4:34 p.m.

    At this point, rather than railing against Utah's very liberal law allowing elective abortions up to 18 weeks, would it not be a far better use of these people's time to provide education to women on how to avoid unwanted pregnanies in the first place, or at least how to detect an unwanted pregnancy so as to avoid an elective abortion--or at least be able to obtain before the 4th month of pregnancy expirs?

    Not having sex is pretty much guaranteed to avoid pregnancy.

    If one is going to be sexually active when pregnancy would be so personally devestating as to justify terminating a new, developing human life, one ought to be responsible enough to consistently and properly use one of the several, highly effective methods of birth control.

    Avoidance of STDs pretty much requires use of a condom on top of that.

    How many pregnancies occur when one is using both "belt and suspenders" as it were?

    It is no longer 1950. There is no reason for any woman to have an unwanted pregnancy, even if she is sexually active. Nor is there any reason for STDs to be on the rise.

    Is it really too much to ask that those mature enough to be sexually active also be mature enough to use birth control?

  • matman Provo, UT
    May 21, 2019 4:32 p.m.

    Every life is precious. They deserve to live.

  • liberty or ...? Ogden, UT
    May 21, 2019 4:31 p.m.

    19th century Slave holder- I have the right to decide who what do with my own property.
    20th century National socialist- We have the right to decide the final solution for the undesirables (Social property).
    20th century Communist-We get to decide what life (property)is of benefit to society.
    Pro choice- It's my body (property) I get to decide what to do with it despite I did choose when I had sex.

    Funny how the argument always ends with someone else losing their right to life to pay for someone else's narcissistic greed, selfishness, irresponsibility, & totalitarian mental complex.

    Such people hate the idea of a God telling them what's right and wrong but are more than willing to act like a God on earth decreeing who lives and who dies.

  • Sneaky Jimmy Bay Area, CA
    May 21, 2019 4:25 p.m.

    The great unknown is at what point does a human being accrue the rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and at what point does a woman lose those rights, subordinating them to another. A couple of things seem clear, no male should be allowed to make a law to control and possibly remove legal rights from a female and no female should let others make decisions that will permanently affect her life. Congratulations to the brave women of Utah who won't allow others to make decisions for them.

  • Jer-Bear Springville, UT
    May 21, 2019 4:19 p.m.

    Well spoken above!

    If I were a woman. And had an abortion, for my own mere convenience alone, I would only have done so when I was young and selfish. And, in later years, I would be upset with my previous error. (especially, when so many want to adopt and can't easily do so)

  • conservative scientist Lindon, UT
    May 21, 2019 4:06 p.m.

    Another commentator recently noted (on another article related to abortion) that the pro-abortion arguments remind them a lot of pro-slavery arguments and NAZI arguments in favor eliminating undesirables. This is very true. A fetus is a living human being inside a mother (not a clump of cells) and it has a right to life.

    If someone makes the argument that a fetus can't sustain itself, and is thus abortion is defensible, then infanticide should not be a crime, nor going through the dementia wards and nursing homes and killing vulnerable elderly, or randomly killing patients admitted to a hospital, all of whom are dependent on others to keep them alive.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    May 21, 2019 2:36 p.m.

    At the core of every moral question is probably a legitimate gray area; but certainly abortion after 18 weeks, when a human heartbeat can typically be detected and within two weeks of when preemies are already known to be able to survive independently, becomes almost impossible to justify, except in an extreme case of protecting the life of the mother.