Utah approach to upending abortion law not the same as Alabama

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  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    May 19, 2019 11:11 a.m.

    No names

    Do you stand for freedom? If so gay marriage should have never been an issue. If all beliefs do not want to be controlled by other beliefs we should all strive to live in harmony.

    Gay marriage is a belief just as much as your lds belief. Your belief tried to control gay marriage beliefs for 40 years plus and that was wrong. Now the tables have turned and their is pushback.

    We should all strive for harmony, a live and let live life but that may be hard for supporters of gay marriage because they have been in fight mode for so long.

  • Richard12345 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 16, 2019 3:36 p.m.

    It's pretty simple isn't it, if you don't like abortion don't have one. Stop presuming that your beliefs should affect everybody else. Stop being so judgemental.

    I can't imagine how difficult a decision this is, so I'll leave it to the woman and whoever she chooses to involve in that decision.

    See, that was easy.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    May 16, 2019 3:35 p.m.

    Whatever one thinks about elective abortion, there is a lesson to be learned here: When the courts get in front of society and try to impose social change, the results are not good.

    For 40 years the left has shouted "settled law" and the right has simply disagreed. With it possible that the current court--or the court after one more justice is replaced by Trump--could overturn Roe, the left is terrified and the right is excited.

    Roe didn't settle a thing. It just hampered what should have been the social and legislative debate. In like manner, Obergfeld will never settle the issue of what is or isn't a marriage.

    The people in 31 States voted overwhelmingly to define marriage as a man and woman. They will obey the law, but 5 lawyers in black robes don't change their minds any more than Roe settled the debate on abortion. Sexual minorities get to look foward to 40+ years of wondering if their big win will be overturned with the next judicial appointment.

    Even if Roe isn't overturned, maybe a more restrained court will spend the next generation not legislating from the bench and instead directing social activists to make their case to society and the legislatures.

  • Makid Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2019 1:24 p.m.

    To fully get rid of abortion, we need to cut back on what creates the need for abortion.

    This is easy to solve with today's technology.

    First, we need to hold the Men accountable. If there is a genetic match (known in the first 4 weeks), the man responsible will be assessed no less than 50% of all medical bills. Outside of marriage or direct dependency, this cost would be strictly out of pocket.

    Second, if the woman doesn't want the baby upon birth, the man must agree to the infant being put up for adoption.

    Third, if the woman wants the baby, the man is responsible for 50% of all costs for the infant through age 18. This includes clothes, food, schooling, housing, transportation, etc..

    Fourth, if a man fails to fulfill this duty at any time, they will be sent to prison for no less than 6 months. Jobs will be protected and funding will come from the State for the infant. The man will be assessed penalties upto and including 56 hours of community service each week until they can fully fund their offspring.

    Contracts can be done prior to pregnancy that absolve only the post birth costs. All maternity costs will be borne equally. Contracts from the State only.

  • Freiheit Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2019 11:41 a.m.

    Nobody really "wants" abortion. It should be legal, safe and rare. There are various reasons for ending a pregnancy, and that agonizing decision should be made by the woman, with possible input from trusted family, friends and religious advisors, not by politicians, particularly of the male variety who will never be in that situation.

  • Whazzzzzzzupppp Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2019 8:56 a.m.

    @Fullypresent: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Since kids are difficult to care for, we should just kill them before they're born? Is that an accurate summary?

  • Eponymous Eggplant Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2019 8:52 a.m.

    The abortion debate appears to come down to a dissatisfaction with biology. It is a cold, hard fact that women bear babies and not men. One can either accept that scientific truth gracefully, recognizing that men and women are different, or one can rail against it. However, disagreeing with the basic truths of the creation is a fool's errand. It only produces anger and heartache.

  • 3grandslams Eagle Mountain, UT
    May 16, 2019 6:55 a.m.

    RE: Moderate
    When states start passing laws making it legal to kill a newborn infant ...abortion is a run away train. When pro-choice advocates think dissecting an infant in her mothers womb is progressive, abortion is a run away train. When...I could go on forever! Don’t post about a metaphor, post substance!

  • Misseleer71 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2019 3:48 a.m.

    There is nothing to debate and row vs wade is not the issue. What is at issue is the lives of women and children who become pregnancy and don't want to be pregnant because of the trauma of conception or getting impregnated.

    God has already settled the dispute, life begins with the first breath of life to receive a soul and life ends with the last breath of life. And god is our conscience, not a communist right to choose. No unborn is a life and those babies born and cannot breathe are not a life. There is no other way to declare when life is born and a soul is provide for the term of its natural life. Without a soul you are not a life but a vegetable with no purpose or dreams or loves to behold. No doctor or politician can force a fetus to live to full term a point in which life begins at first breath.

    If any other determination is used then every still birth, every miscarriage will be called murder. Alabama law is also foolish and unreasonable and irrelevant the the roe vs wade ruling because a doctor will not always be present at a miscarriage of stillborn or even a birth. Women will seek abortions with or without any laws or doctors or politicians calling them killers.

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2019 10:20 p.m.

    Let's have some reality check.
    Utah families make up 35% of the people in our state experiencing homelessness. As of January 2018, Utah had an estimated 2,876 children experiencing homelessness on any given day.
    Utah cost of living is 117.6%. Cost of housing is the biggest factor in this statistic.
    Utah ranks very low in education spending per pupil due to all the children we have.
    Utah is 5th in the nation for suicide rate. A significant# of these are children, teens, and young adults.
    One in 5 kids in Utah will be sexually abused.
    In 2018, Utah had 7,618 children who were victims of abuse or neglect. That we know about. 68% of their perpetrators were their own parents.
    12.5% of households in Utah reported that they struggled to buy enough food for themselves & their families during 2016–2017.
    Utah has about 6% of their teens not in school & not working.
    Utah has around 15% of teens not graduating from high school.
    Utah has about 6% of their children with no health insurance.
    Utah has about 16% of their children being raised in single parent families.

    Let's focus on the kids who are already here before we put the gov't further into our bedrooms & into our bodies as well.

  • F Alger Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2019 9:45 p.m.

    The Supreme Court won't touch Roe v. Wade. Justice Roberts is very concerned about the image of the Court, this is too controversial for his taste.

    The Alabama law will get struck down in a few weeks and then it will languish and be forgotten.

  • niedest , 00
    May 15, 2019 9:09 p.m.

    You know we can debate the pros and cons of this issue, with really not changing any ones mind.
    But what comes to my mind, is from the Bible, where jesus says those that harm children, it would be better for them to have a millstone tie to them and thrown into the sea, that face his judgement at judgement day.
    So the tide is swing for the left side on this matter to the right side, I dont know whats going to come of this, I dont think anyone does, who is to say what side is right. But lets be adults on this matter, no need for name calling, people can and do have the right to have a opinion on this matter. It doesn't make them bad people either way, so lets stop the hate and debate this as adults

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    May 15, 2019 9:10 p.m.

    Why are both political parties going to such extremes? It has been over 40 years since Roe V Wade. I believe there should be more restrictions to abortion but not outright reversal and illegality.

    The next election will be where most of these issues will be settled . Two more Supreme Court Justice retirements (probably announced the week after the election either way); Immigration reform; Trade.

    In the 2016 election the news interviewed a woman who said the Trump was Americas last hope for turning things around. I remember thinking, boy is she overstating things. Now, however, I think she is right only it is the 2020 election. The House and Senate need to go to Republican control however otherwise we simply have more worthless partisan abuses.

  • mallow Pleasant Grove, UT
    May 15, 2019 9:07 p.m.

    Bravo for Alabama. Someone is finally taking a stand.

  • bamafone Salem, UT
    May 15, 2019 8:12 p.m.

    I support Alabama

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2019 8:11 p.m.

    3grandslams - Eagle Mountain, UT "I do think it’s time to put the brakes on abortion. Abortion is a run away train. "
    What makes you feel this way?

    "The abortion rate in the United States fell to its lowest level since the historic Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision legalized abortion nationwide." NPR, January 17, 2017

    Generally, run away trains do not slow down...

  • Arkpears Bella Vista, AR
    May 15, 2019 7:54 p.m.

    We need courageous educators, politicians and parents to come forth and debate this topic in all it's complexities. The demise of 60 million fetuses is nothing to take lightly. What have we become?

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    May 15, 2019 6:43 p.m.

    You may not like abortion, but there are so many problems with the Alabama law that SCOTUS will have little choice than to overturn it.

  • 3grandslams Eagle Mountain, UT
    May 15, 2019 6:10 p.m.

    I do think it’s time to put the brakes on abortion. I do believe medical conditions exist that may justify the practice but currently the abortion is a run away train. Abortion should not be birth control.

    I do agree with the state of Alabama, a heartbeat is life. I agree with scientists, a growing cell is life. I agree with environmentalist, unborn life must be protected.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    May 15, 2019 5:50 p.m.

    To be clear, there is no "law" that says we must permit elective abortion. There is merely a horribly flawed--both technically, constitutionally, and morally flawed--Supreme Court decision from an era before ultra-sounds existed--when women learned the gender of their baby at birth--, before in utero surgeries were possible, and when being 4 weeks premature meant a high likelyhood of death and high chance of lifetime problems if the baby survived. This was an era when reliable birth control was hard to obtain, still carried social stigma, and when women were not nearly in control of their own lives as they are today.

    It is inconsistant--to use a nice word--for the same folks who demand a "living document" view of the constitution to simultaneously demand eternal obescience to a court ruling made before ultra sounds or MRIs existed.

    Times have changed. As bad as it was in 1973 to completely ignore the humanity of the pre-born baby, today it is beyond inexcusible. It is well past time revisit Roe and return this area of law to the States. The constitution says nothing of abortion, medical practice, nor even murder.

  • Reasonable Mormon Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2019 4:46 p.m.

    Banning abortions doesn't stop them. It creates more harm then good, and it doesn't care about the life of mothers or babies. There's nothing pro life about criminalizing women, when it takes men to get them pregnant in the first place. How are the fathers of fetuses criminalized?

    This is unjust.