Brad Rock: Jason Buck says BYU independence situation 'rips his heart out'

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  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    May 19, 2019 10:40 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    When was the last time any SEC team played at Utah-SLC?

    Utah fans are simply deluding themselves if they think that the Utes will ever be CFP contenders.

    To even get a sniff at a CFP berth, Utah would have to be 12-1 with a win in the P12 championship game,

    and the Utes have NEVER had an 11+ win season while playing more than ONE regular season P5 with a winning record.

    The Utes are the ultimate coat tail draggers, glomming onto the accomplishments of the big boys of every conference they’ve been in.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 19, 2019 7:34 p.m.

    Aunty Mythology - Monrovia, CA
    May 19, 2019 5:12 p.m.
    utemythology

    CFP rankings are meaningless unless you’re ranked in the Top 5, especially when you’re not even good enough to be ranked in the Final AP and Coaches polls.

    btw, comparing Utah to LSU is ludicrous; the Utes have never won a single road game against an SEC team, and no self-respecting SEC team would even consider playing in that high school-sized cracker box on the hill.
    _____

    No. Comparing BYU to AL, USC, OK, ND, Ohio St.... is ludicrous. They are REAL legacy programs. BYU is masquerading as one.

    And legacy programs don't loose to UMass or ECU.

    When was the last time a self respecting, non-bottom feeder SEC team played at BYU?

  • Aunty Mythology Monrovia, CA
    May 19, 2019 5:12 p.m.

    utemythology

    CFP rankings are meaningless unless you’re ranked in the Top 5, especially when you’re not even good enough to be ranked in the Final AP and Coaches polls.

    btw, comparing Utah to LSU is ludicrous; the Utes have never won a single road game against an SEC team, and no self-respecting SEC team would even consider playing in that high school-sized cracker box on the hill.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 19, 2019 5:01 p.m.

    Uteology:
    "That didn't stop you from taking my words out of context and going on a rant about irrelevancy of CFP...To end, let's agree that BYU will be a most likely a dumpster fire and your Dawgs end up being SEC champs."

    I realize U were comparing number of CFP rankings...and yes, I sort of ran with that because it would be funny if U did tell LSU fans U were on par with them and then tried explaining why. In the end, my point was I don't think LSU fans keep track of the number of times they've been CFP ranked...you see that right? It's just not something fans do when they have real hardware to point to. I'm sorry for running with it out of context. It's a slow time of year, both business and sports wise...so I seek entertainment on these and Dawg Nation threads (though recruiting stuff is heating up for UGA so that's fun to follow).

    I think BYU will actually be better this year than last year, but I'm not sure their record will reflect that. I'd love to see my Dawgs win the SEC but we've gotta get over the 'gump hump'...hopefully this is the year. I think anything less than at least winning the division again would be a disappointment for your Utes. Peace!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 19, 2019 12:24 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    May 18, 2019 7:11 p.m.
    Uteology:
    "In fact it is BYU fans that claim BYU is a world-wide brand, "legacy program". Maybe when you get a chance you can share that with you UGA buddies to see if they agree."

    Then there's this little gem. I have never called BYU a legacy program, or "blue-chip" program as U put it. Never, not once. ...

    --------

    And I never said Utah was a national power on par with LSU. I was clearly referring to CFP.

    That didn't stop you from taking my words out of context and going on a rant about irrelevancy of CFP.

    To end, let's agree that BYU will be a most likely a dumpster fire and your Dawgs end up being SEC champs.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 18, 2019 7:11 p.m.

    Uteology:
    "In fact it is BYU fans that claim BYU is a world-wide brand, "legacy program". Maybe when you get a chance you can share that with you UGA buddies to see if they agree."

    Then there's this little gem. I have never called BYU a legacy program, or "blue-chip" program as U put it. Never, not once. On this very article, I was candid about BYU's program and struggles for the future. Ask my buddy Utah-Hawaii Alum (Mike) and he'll tell you I have no delusions about what BYU is or isn't. My UGA buddies think pretty much the same of BYU they think of U...not much. Nor would I expect them to.

    If you'd spend more time actually reading my posts, instead of being so defensive about whether I'm "mocking you with Georgia" U could "keep up" with my opinions about BYU and not make clueless comments like this one.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 18, 2019 4:04 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    May 17, 2019 7:19 p.m.
    Uteology:
    “But I [sic] rather be Utah on par with LSU, then [sic] BYU on par with Wyoming.”

    ------------

    Sorry you're having such a difficult time understanding the relevancy of CFP and SOS.

    My entire post was clearly referring to CFP accomplishments, not overall program strength.

    But you're doing a great job of correcting my grammar/spelling mistakes. Keep up the good work.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 18, 2019 3:52 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT

    But don’t annoy them, LSU fans can get a bit crazy. Especially with fans that count SOS and # of CFP rankings as big accomplishments lol. Good luck buddy!

    -------------

    Would that be similar to how BYU fans annoy us, by counting margin of defeats as big accomplishments?

    Your Team A has more Provo Airport Celebrations (2) than CFP rankings (0) and you're here going off on SOS and CFP accomplishments!

    SMH

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 18, 2019 3:48 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    May 17, 2019 7:19 p.m.
    Uteology:
    “But I [sic] rather be Utah on par with LSU, then [sic] BYU on par with Wyoming.”

    Lol, why don’t you run along and post on LSU boards about how U are on par with them. I’m guessing after they got over the shock and absurdity of that comment they’d do one of two things...either ROFL or hit the ignore button haha! Oh wait, I forgot SEC teams are afraid of U, my bad! Lol

    ---------------

    As far as the CFP is concerned? YES.

    Did I claim Utah is a blue chip, national power, legacy program like LSU? No!

    In fact it is BYU fans that claim BYU is a world-wide brand, "legacy program". Maybe when you get a chance you can share that with you UGA buddies to see if they agree.

    I have clearly said over the last five year Utah is the AP #25 program, never have I said it's a blue chip program.

    If you spend less time laughing, you might keep up.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 18, 2019 10:48 a.m.

    @rightnow333 - West Valley City, UT

    *Income*. The AAC has a new TV deal and they get paid approx. $7mm per team per yr.

    BYU has been achieving around $5mm from ESPN, has no other "sharing" if a team makes a NY6 game.

    Today if BYU made a NY6 game they get the entire amount. But today, even if BYU went undefeated, it's not guarantee they may a NY6 bowl. They have no affliation or tie-in and not 'auto-bid' like the G5 conferences do.

    You think ESPN would help you, but most conferences actually get paid way more per team by ESPN, with their conference deals, than BYU does.

    Today, the PAC12 receives around $30mm per teams from their TV/media deal with Fox and ESPN. That amount is split 50/50 between the 2.

    So, Utah gets basically $15mm from ESPN, BYU gets approx. $5mm from ESPN.

    Do you think ESPN will alienate a conference to get BYU into a NY6 bowl? Nope.

    Finally, BYU can still schedule P5 teams, from a G5 conf., if they so chose to. You could still have 4, P5 games and get even more $$ than the $7mm from the conf.

    Join the AAC and BYU could make substantially more than they do now.

  • rightnow333 West Valley City, UT
    May 18, 2019 12:03 a.m.

    G5 vs. Indy. *Income*: G5 gives 1/10 of the income. No new scoreboards. No stadium-wide WiFi. Huge loss for the fan experience at the games. *TV exposure*: All games on tv vs. conference share (going back to radio only when BYU plays a MWC game vs. Air Force so UNLV @ New Mexico gets shared air time). *What about a NY6 Bowl?* Dig through 9 dull wins in hopes to play maybe Wisconsin or Washington if you are lucky? Or play Utah, Tennessee, USC, Washington, Arizona, California, Wisconsin, LSU, Miss St, UCLA, Michigan St (many of these twice) in just a few years regardless of your schedule. *National Recognition* Be cute like Boise State, Western Michigan, Memphis and Houston and win against 9 G5s and maybe 1 P5 and hope to not get exposed in the bowl game. Or play about 5 P5 games competitively and win about half of them even on the road and be counted as a P5 game by most P5 conferences. *Future realignment* Be in some conference agreement that makes you have a buyout or other penalties or be 100% easy and available if a P5 conference has reasons to expand. *Recruiting* You might win 10 games, but you don't play anyone or you get to go to many cool places and win. Why be a G5 then?

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    May 17, 2019 10:29 p.m.

    No conference

    I heard that the Utes have only beaten ONE ranked in both final polls bowl opponent since 1994;

    NONE since leaving the MWC.

    Is that really true?

  • Fashion Police Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 17, 2019 10:18 p.m.

    No conference titles for U

    “Why are some fellow BYU fans obsessed with how Utah was invited to the PAC12?”

    Why are U so obsessed with BYU that you continue to pretend that you’re a BYU fan?

  • No Conference Will Take Us Seattle, WA
    May 17, 2019 9:13 p.m.

    Why are some fellow BYU fans obsessed with how Utah was invited to the PAC12?
    It must be easier to make up stories about that. Rather than why nobody want's us in their conference.

    Independence is not fun anymore. We should not have reacted to Utah leaving the MWC without a plan. The only reason we should have left was to join another conference. Our Cougars are going nowhere.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 17, 2019 7:19 p.m.

    Uteology:
    “But I [sic] rather be Utah on par with LSU, then [sic] BYU on par with Wyoming.”

    Lol, why don’t you run along and post on LSU boards about how U are on par with them. I’m guessing after they got over the shock and absurdity of that comment they’d do one of two things...either ROFL or hit the ignore button haha! Oh wait, I forgot SEC teams are afraid of U, my bad! Lol

    But don’t annoy them, LSU fans can get a bit crazy. Especially with fans that count SOS and # of CFP rankings as big accomplishments lol. Good luck buddy!

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    May 17, 2019 6:17 p.m.

    utemythology

    “BYU caught disinterested Utah team napping 2018, but we we had no problem take the cupcake down South to the wood shed in 16 minutes of P5 football”

    Nope!

    BYU dominated a VERY interested Utah team and lead for most of the game until both Kaufusi’s were injured and BYU was down to their 6th string running back.

    Whittingham preaches from day one to new players the importance of beating BYU.

    If BYU’s True Freshman QB hadn’t gifted U a touchdown, U wouldn’t have had a chance to get back into the game.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 17, 2019 5:32 p.m.

    free burritos...

    "The Utes have only beaten ONE ranked in both final polls bowl opponent since 1994."

    Hilarious that the usual suspect blames BYU’s 2010 bowl win and Utah’s 2010 bowl loss on strength of bowl opponent, while completely ignoring how pitifully weak the vast majority of Utah’s bowl opponents have been.

    The hypocrisy is baffling.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 17, 2019 5:02 p.m.

    Swoop - Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2019 3:43 p.m.
    free burritos...

    "The Utes have only beaten ONE ranked in both final polls bowl opponent since 1994."

    Proof that the Utes caught a totally disinterested Alabama team napping in 2008 or Utah's win over #20 Arizona in 1994 would be Utah's ONLY win over a final ranked in both polls bowl opponent.

    -------

    Yawn!

    BYU caught disinterested Utah team napping 2018, but we we had no problem take the cupcake down South to the wood shed in 16 minutes of P5 football.

    Sad for BYU "fans" that Alabama was so weak it couldn't do the same to Utah.

    Utah had more Top 25 wins in 2008 FOUR, than BYU has in the last 22 years THREE.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 17, 2019 4:38 p.m.

    @Jello

    Interesting fact: Of the top 5 teams in the MWC that played in bowl games that year only one lost. That's right, Utah. Oh and by the way, BYU won by 28 points.

    ------

    Utah lost to #8 Boise.

    BYU beat 6-7 Bowl Diddly Tech

    The last time Utah lost to Bowl Diddly Tech, 2007.

    The last time BYU beat a top 10 team, 1992.

    Next!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 17, 2019 4:31 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT

    And I've mocked BYU for ridiculousness as well. See that's the difference between U and me...I'll criticize my team. I've criticized Kirby Smart and UGA at times (though not for such trite reasons as this). U think the Utes can do no wrong. It makes it way too easy to mock U. Food for thought.

    -----

    What are talking about, I have criticized Utah for years.

    Bottom line, SOS matters so does CFP rankings, do we need to do Airport Celebrations for it?

    No!

    But I rather be Utah on par with LSU, then BYU on par with Wyoming.

    BYU has more Airport Celebrations in September TWO than CFP rankings ZERO.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2019 3:43 p.m.

    free burritos...

    "The Utes have only beaten ONE ranked in both final polls bowl opponent since 1994."

    Proof that the Utes caught a totally disinterested Alabama team napping in 2008 or Utah's win over #20 Arizona in 1994 would be Utah's ONLY win over a final ranked in both polls bowl opponent.

    It's hilarious how the same Utes fans who are constantly touting Utah's SOS, go completely silent when Utah's bowl SOS is mentioned.

    Looking at U AZute1, utemythology, navel, Arizona ute, et. al.

  • free burritos for all Cedar City, UT
    May 17, 2019 3:33 p.m.

    @Jello is Good - ,

    "Of the top 5 teams in the MWC that played in bowl games that year only one lost. That's right, Utah. Oh and by the way, BYU won by 28 points."

    @ArizonaUte

    "A rare bowl loss for Utah, indeed."

    That's only because the Utes play so pitifully few ranked bowl opponents.

    We all saw in last season's Holiday Bowl what happens to Utah when the Utes play a final ranked bowl opponent.

    The Utes have only beaten ONE ranked in both final polls bowl opponent since 1994.

  • Fear the Turtle!! ,
    May 17, 2019 3:28 p.m.

    Hey Ute fans....if there is no comparison, then stop using BYU as your measuring stick. When an article is talking about exclusively BYU, leave Utah out of it. Every time you compare,you give traction to the premise that they should be compared. Your argument becomes hypocritical.

    I, on the other hand, believe they are very comparable and will consistently continue to do so.

    Rise and shout

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 17, 2019 2:32 p.m.

    @Jello is Good - ,

    A rare bowl loss for Utah, indeed. And congrats for winning your bowl game in 2010, against 6-6 UTEP, to get BYU to a winning record themselves. Sounds like 2018.

    Utah has won more bowl games in history than BYU and beaten the highest ranked bowl opponent either of our programs has ever faced. But never mind that.

    Yes, BYU has played in more bowls but has lost a LOT of them, proving, just like they are doing in Independence, that they can't really hang with the better teams consistently.

    BYU plays Tennessee this yr. Tennessee last yr. was 5-7. BYU is listed as a "near guaranteed win" for Tennessee this season, by a national writer. Not my words.

    I don't think you want to compare current relevance. But you are welcome to give it the ole college try.

  • Jello is Good ,
    May 17, 2019 1:31 p.m.

    @ArizonaUte - SLC, UT
    May 17, 2019 12:42 p.m.
    @Snack PAC - Olympus Cove, Utah

    "I absolutely get how conf. standings work. But BYU is listed 5th. Due to the other teams having a better overall record. At 8-4 both AFA and SDSU have an overall better record than 6-6 BYU.

    While that isn't "conf. standing" it does cause BYU to be listed 5th.

    But congrats on a 3 way tie for 3rd place in the MWC with two teams that have overall better records than BYU.

    That may be the last conference standing BYU will ever have."

    ------------------

    Interesting fact: Of the top 5 teams in the MWC that played in bowl games that year only one lost. That's right, Utah. Oh and by the way, BYU won by 28 points.

  • Jello is Good ,
    May 17, 2019 1:07 p.m.

    I love how 2010 ended.

    Winners:
    Rose Bowl: TCU-21 Wisconsin-19
    Independence Bowl: AF-14 Georgia Tech-7
    Poinsettia Bowl: SDSU-35 Navy-14
    New Mexico Bowl: BYU-52 UTEP-24

    Losers:
    Maaco Bowl: Boise State-26 Utah-3

  • TrueBlue Provo, UT
    May 17, 2019 12:46 p.m.

    Arizona Ute

    FACTs:

    BYU's average conference finish while BYU, TCU and Utah were together in the MWC was higher than Utah's.

    And, in championships:

    TCU 3
    BYU 2
    Utah 1

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 17, 2019 12:42 p.m.

    @Snack PAC - Olympus Cove, Utah

    I absolutely get how conf. standings work. But BYU is listed 5th. Due to the other teams having a better overall record. At 8-4 both AFA and SDSU have an overall better record than 6-6 BYU.

    While that isn't "conf. standing" it does cause BYU to be listed 5th.

    But congrats on a 3 way tie for 3rd place in the MWC with two teams that have overall better records than BYU.

    That may be the last conference standing BYU will ever have.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 17, 2019 11:51 a.m.

    ArizonaUte - “BYU is listed #5 in MWC standings on ESPN for 2010.”

    You obviously don’t have a clue how conference standings work.

    In 2010, BYU, AFA and SDSU all finished 5-3, tied for 3rd in conference; BYU beat SDSU, SDSU beat AFA, AFA beat BYU.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 17, 2019 10:59 a.m.

    @skywalker - Palo Alto, CA

    BYU is listed #5 in MWC standings on ESPN for 2010.

    Tied with Airforce who beat them head to head, so not really tied with them for 3rd.

    BYU was 6-6 in the regular season in 2010. Air Force and San Diego St. both 8-4. Utah was 10-2. TCU went 13-0 (also curb stomping BYU, just as a reminder).

    Last yr. as an independent? BYU made it back to a bowl game at 6-6 regular season.

    15 losses over the last 2 seasons, is what's current.

    But congrats on few good seasons since leaving the WAC. As I have pointed out previously. BYU did nothing before the WAC and not much since.

    When will BYU finish a season ranked again? When will BYU actually get ranked for the 1st time in the CFP poll? When will BYU beat Utah again, or a PAC12 team with a winning record?

    All fair questions, I think.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 17, 2019 9:53 a.m.

    Arizona Ute

    "BYU's last yr in the MWC they finished #5."

    NOPE!

    BYU's last year in the MWC they finished tied for 3rd, after losing at Utah 16-17.

    Let's not forget, that was also the year that then Top 10 Utah was absolutely curb stomped at home by TCU 7-47.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 17, 2019 9:46 a.m.

    ArizonaUte

    "Any undefeated seasons? Nope. Utah had 2. BYU has had 1 all time. 35+ yrs ago."

    How many of Utah's "undefeated seasons" ended in a #1 ranking in either major poll?

    How many ended with a Utah player winning a Heisman Trophy, or even finishing in the Top 3 Heisman finalist?

    It's hysterical how BYU's 1984 National Championship is now "too old" to count, while Utah fans constantly spout off about Utah's Majerus era accomplishments.

    125 seasons after Utah began playing football, the Utes still only have EIGHT AP Top 25 finishes.

    BYU had FOUR in a row from 2006 to 2009.

    No BYU "accomplishments" since the WAC era?

    LOL!

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 17, 2019 9:31 a.m.

    @deductive reasoning - Arlington, VA

    Thanks for proving my point. BYU has had a couple good seasons since the WAC. That's it.

    Any undefeated seasons? Nope. Utah had 2. BYU has had 1 all time. 35+ yrs ago.

    Any BCS/NY6 Bowl games? Nope. Utah had 2, won both, was the 1st ever non-AQ to do it and the 1st to do it twice. Utah beat the highest ranked opponent either of our programs has ever faced in a bowl game.

    How many 1st place votes in the AP has BYU received since the 80's?

    Congrats on a couple 11 win seasons against weak competition.

    Utah and BYU both have or share 4 MWC titles. Just so you know.

    Utah has more overall conference titles than BYU anyway. The vast majority of BYU are in the WAC, like 19 of 23 all in a blip of time. You can thank Lavell.

    BYU's last yr in the MWC they finished #5. So, congrats again.

    We are seeing BYU's true colors in Independence. Harder schedules, but not close to a P5 schedule, have proven harder than anyone would have thought.

    ZERO season ending rankings in the AP top 25 or BCS/CFP as an independent.

    15 losses in the last 2 yrs alone.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 17, 2019 9:28 a.m.

    upinthenight

    "Sigh. How many times are we going to ready desperate BYU spin about this? Have been doing it for years. There was never an official invite extended to A&M. Everyone knows they were planing to join the SEC."

    Sigh...

    How long are Utah fans going to continue living in denial on this subject?

    Quoting directly from a CALIFORNIA Bears blog (note: NOT BYU spin):

    June 4, 2010: "Broken by Chip Brown at Rivals, who is pretty well-respected . Hinted at by Chancellor Birgenau, a rumor that's now slowly starting to filter through the pipeline--the Colorado AD has also been led to believe something akin to expansion talks is occurring...
    Six Big 12 teams (Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech) would be invited to join the Pac-10."

    Note: Neither Utah nor Kansas were even mentioned when rumors of the proposed merger were first reported.

    The sequence of events that later followed prove the true version of the story.

    Fearing that Texas legislators would force Baylor to be part of the merger, just like they did when the Big 8 expanded to the Big 12, Larry Scott hastily invited Colorado, practically in the middle of the night, to shut Baylor out.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 17, 2019 9:19 a.m.

    WACpaddle:
    "It was not a choice. Utah and CU were part of the deal to begin with, regardless of OU & OSU."

    Yes, we know. And OU and OSU didn't even apply separately without Texas until after the "merger" didn't go through.

    Now obviously none of this happened which is why my statement was what we call a hypothetical. So my point was, hypothetically if Powder Pac folks could time travel, knowing what they do now, they would probably prefer to right their error and take OU and OSU...I added replacing U/Colo because I knew it would ruffle some Swoop feathers (which is entertaining, because it's almost Summer and I was bored...how's that for transparency lol).

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 17, 2019 8:53 a.m.

    Uteology:
    "SOS and CFP rankings are pretend accomplishments?"

    I don't know any fanbase that celebrates their SOS and number of CFP rankings (majority of which aren't even top 15) like U. Fans of real teams celebrate real accomplishments that are represented with hardware. But like I said, U can certainly ask Harlan to create some for U.

    And I've mocked BYU for ridiculousness as well. See that's the difference between U and me...I'll criticize my team. I've criticized Kirby Smart and UGA at times (though not for such trite reasons as this). U think the Utes can do no wrong. It makes it way too easy to mock U. Food for thought.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    May 17, 2019 8:38 a.m.

    Arizona Ute

    "BYU had a couple of decent seasons after the WAC but nothing great or "special"."

    BYU had more 11+ win, Top 15 seasons (THREE), from 2006 to 2009, than

    Utah has had since 1892 (TWO).

    How can U possibly say that an 11+ win season is "nothing great or special", when Utah has only had TWO such seasons in their entire history?

    Lifetime 11+ win seasons
    BYU 11 > Utah 2

    10+ win seasons
    BYU 16 > Utah 7

    9+ win seasons
    BYU 24 > Utah 13

    BYU has nearly as many 11+ win seasons than Utah has 9+ win seasons.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 17, 2019 8:19 a.m.

    @skywalker - Palo Alto, CA

    All of BYU's major accomplishments were in the WAC. It's not debatable.

    BYU had a couple of decent seasons after the WAC but nothing great or "special".

    As an independent BYU has had 1, 10 win season. And they didn't get ranked in the AP top 25.

    They were the ONLY 10 win team in the nation to not finish ranked in the AP top 25. In fact, 2, 9 win teams were ranked in the AP top 25 that yr.

    BYU beats cup cakes and loses to the better teams. For the most part, that has been BYU's history.

    Marquee games of all time for BYU included a 5 loss Oklahoma team who didn't finish ranked. A Wisconsin team who didn't finish ranked. A 6-6 Michigan team in a bowl game 35+ yrs ago.

    There are some wins against teams that were good, Miami being the best of them by far. Not taking that away.

    Those are not the norm, however.

    BYU lost 15 games, just the last 2 yrs alone. They are a long way from the WAC days.

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    May 17, 2019 8:18 a.m.

    MRM - Layton, UT
    May 17, 2019 6:46 a.m.
    said:

    "WACpaddled

    “It was not a choice. Utah and CU were part of the deal to begin with, regardless of OU & OSU.”

    There you go again, making stuff up.

    Utah was nothing but a last second fill-in to give a traveling partner.

    The original deal was P10/B12 South:

    Texas, TA&M, TTech, Okla, OkSt, Col

    After Col was hastily invited, to shut Baylor out, and the original deal fell apart,

    Scott was forced to settle for Utah, instead of BYU, because Stanford and Cal wouldn’t approve inviting any religiously affiliated school."

    Sigh.
    How many times are we going to ready desperate BYU spin about this? Have been doing it for years.
    There was never an official invite extended to A&M. Everyone knows they were planing to join the SEC.

    Next you are going to tell us that BYU was secretly invited before Utah. Whatever you need to do to feel better.....have at it.

  • MRM Layton, UT
    May 17, 2019 6:46 a.m.

    WACpaddled

    “It was not a choice. Utah and CU were part of the deal to begin with, regardless of OU & OSU.”

    There you go again, making stuff up.

    Utah was nothing but a last second fill-in to give a traveling partner.

    The original deal was P10/B12 South:

    Texas, TA&M, TTech, Okla, OkSt, Col

    After Col was hastily invited, to shut Baylor out, and the original deal fell apart,

    Scott was forced to settle for Utah, instead of BYU, because Stanford and Cal wouldn’t approve inviting any religiously affiliated school.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 11:42 p.m.

    @MikeScott - Clearfield, UT

    So if they had OU/OSU instead of U/Colo the Powder Pac would have had a playoff team every year, instead of missing 3 out of 5 and the last 2 in a row. So it's obvious why passing on OU was dumb, but OSU's record since the CFP started is FAR better than Colorado's and almost identical to U (OSU 44-21, U 44-22). Using simple cost analysis, taking U and Colo when they could have had OU and OSU was a horrible decision.

    -------

    Nope!

    The WAC made a horrible decision by inviting BYU. Only to end up imploding.

    PAC-12 made a good decision by adding Utah, a Top 25 program and a Tier 1 research school.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 11:29 p.m.

    @BlueCoug - Provo, UT

    Utah is a top 25 program, BYU is a dumpster fire.

    Scott made the right choice, if he wanted a lesser program they could have invited BYU.

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    May 16, 2019 10:01 p.m.

    utemythology

    Despite your frantic and emotional denials,

    BYU DOMINATED Utah from 2006 to 2009

    and

    Colorado was an absolute dumpster fire from 2006 to 2009 (16-37).

    11+ win, Top 15 finishes (see BOTH polls)
    BYU 3 > Utah 1

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 4 > Utah 2

    MWC Championships
    BYU 2 > Utah 1

    Head-to-head
    BYU 3 > Utah 1

    And let’s not forget that embarrassing 0-27 shutout loss to 10-loss UNLV in 2007 that killed any chance Utah might have had of being a national championship contender in 2008.

    Scott blew it twice,

    Settling for lesser programs,

    when he could have had much better.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 16, 2019 9:31 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    May 16, 2019 3:12 p.m.
    Navy Vet:
    "That's why when Oklahoma (and Okla St) applied for membership the following year, they were denied admission."

    And we all see how brilliant that decision was...another Larry Scott/Powder Pac blunder that has cost the conference millions, playoffs, to say nothing of a dying reputation. I'll bet two Heisman Trophy winners and 3 CFP appearances would have helped that reputation (and ironically, all 3 of OU's appearances were in years the Powder Pac wasn't there lol). Seems poor Larry and the Pac admins just can't get out of their own way.

    I'll bet there's a lot of Pac10 fans that wish they could go back in time and trade U/Colo for OU/OSU right about now.
    _____

    It was not a choice. Utah and CU were part of the deal to begin with, regardless of OU & OSU.

    I'll bet there's a lot of BYU fans, and those that won't admit, that they wish they could go back in time and remain in the MWC right about now.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 8:07 p.m.

    @MikeCoog
    "BYU fans like you are the only ones crying."

    They are tears of sheer joy and laughter my insecure mythologist.

    -----

    Are those the same teers of joy and laughter when your team is put in a fetal position by the PAC-12?

    BYU vs P12: 4-13 (23%)

    BYU has ZERO wins vs P12 teams win 6+ wins.

  • MikeScott Clearfield, UT
    May 16, 2019 5:19 p.m.

    Uteology:
    "According to College Football Playoff Committee:

    1. Washington
    2. Oregon
    3. Utah"

    And OU trumps them all. Washington- 1 CFP, Oregon- 1 CFP, Utah- never close < OU- 3 CFPs

    So if they had OU/OSU instead of U/Colo the Powder Pac would have had a playoff team every year, instead of missing 3 out of 5 and the last 2 in a row. So it's obvious why passing on OU was dumb, but OSU's record since the CFP started is FAR better than Colorado's and almost identical to U (OSU 44-21, U 44-22). Using simple cost analysis, taking U and Colo when they could have had OU and OSU was a horrible decision.

    "BYU fans like you are the only ones crying."

    They are tears of sheer joy and laughter my insecure mythologist.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 5:09 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT

    So I guess to some up: I can't speak for other BYU fans but I have never celebrated margin of defeat, and while you can't speak for other U fans, YOU have absolutely celebrated pretend accomplishments like SOS and CFP rankings. So next time I should just mock YOU instead of U...noted lol.

    ------------

    SOS and CFP rankings are pretend accomplishments?

    The CFP committee disagrees, see 2016 9-4 Utah vs 13-1 Marshall/11-2 Boise State. Which explains why Boise got a NY6 berth because of SOS and CFP ranking over Marshall.

    No, pretend accomplishments are:

    * Margin of defeat celebrations
    * September airport celebrations
    * Printing 50,000 Perfection t-shirts in August
    * Power point presentations for beating an overrated Oklahoma
    * Celebrating 11+ win seasons feasting on cupcakes

    You haven't participated in ANY of those? And you call yourself a BYU "fan"?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 5:03 p.m.

    skywalker - Palo Alto, CA
    May 16, 2019 3:52 p.m.
    utemythology

    "BYU success was in the WAC."

    That claim is obliterated by the fact that BYU had more 11+ win, Top 15 seasons (THREE)
    from 2006 to 2009,than Utah has had in its entire football history (TWO).

    ---------------------

    Nope! You had 2 top 15 teams. Which of those BYU teams was better than 10 win 1994 #10 Utah? Take your time I will wait.

    Stop with the fake accomplishments! I am surprised Cougsndawgs doesn't mock you.

    MWC Accomplishments: Tiles (Major Bowls)
    1. TCU 5 (Rose)
    2. Utah 4 (Fiesta and Sugar)
    3. BYU 4 (Bowl Diddly)

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 4:11 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs

    So I guess to some up: I can't speak for other BYU fans but I have never celebrated margin of defeat, and while you can't speak for other U fans, YOU have absolutely celebrated pretend accomplishments like SOS and CFP rankings. So next time I should just mock YOU instead of U...noted lol.

    -----

    Sorry you are having such a hard t

    SOS and CFP rankings are not fantasies, margin of defeats, airport celebrations, and Quest tshirts are.

    Feel free to mock me, but I'll be the one will be the only one laughing pointing at the scoreboard.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 16, 2019 4:03 p.m.

    Navy Vet:

    "That's why when Oklahoma (and Okla St) applied for membership the following year, they were denied admission."

    Such a bone-headed decision, which explains a lot about why Utah and Colorado were invited instead of BYU and Boise State.

    Even with Utah's best season in history included, BYU dominated Utah from 2006 to 2009
    and Colorado was an absolute dumpster fire from 2006 to 2009 (16-37).

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 3:57 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    May 16, 2019 3:12 p.m.
    Navy Vet:
    "That's why when Oklahoma (and Okla St) applied for membership the following year, they were denied admission."

    And we all see how brilliant that decision was...another Larry Scott/Powder Pac blunder that has cost the conference millions, playoffs, to say nothing of a dying reputation. I'll bet two Heisman Trophy winners and 3 CFP appearances would have helped that reputation (and ironically, all 3 of OU's appearances were in years the Powder Pac wasn't there lol). Seems poor Larry and the Pac admins just can't get out of their own way.

    I'll bet there's a lot of Pac10 fans that wish they could go back in time and trade U/Colo for OU/OSU right about now.

    ------

    Nonsense!

    According to College Football Playoff Committee:

    1. Washington
    2. Oregon
    3. Utah

    Why would PAC 10 fans want to get rid of Utah a Top 25 program over and a Tier 1 research school over Oklahoma State?

    Nope, PAC-12 fans wish USC and Oregon with the talent they have stop underperforming.

    BYU fans like you are the only ones crying.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 16, 2019 3:52 p.m.

    utemythology

    "BYU success was in the WAC."

    That claim is obliterated by the fact that

    BYU had more 11+ win, Top 15 seasons (THREE)

    from 2006 to 2009,

    than Utah has had in its entire football history (TWO).

    And let's not forget,

    Utah has NEVER had an 11-win season while playing more than ONE

    regular season P5 opponent

    with a winning record.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 16, 2019 3:12 p.m.

    Navy Vet:
    "That's why when Oklahoma (and Okla St) applied for membership the following year, they were denied admission."

    And we all see how brilliant that decision was...another Larry Scott/Powder Pac blunder that has cost the conference millions, playoffs, to say nothing of a dying reputation. I'll bet two Heisman Trophy winners and 3 CFP appearances would have helped that reputation (and ironically, all 3 of OU's appearances were in years the Powder Pac wasn't there lol). Seems poor Larry and the Pac admins just can't get out of their own way.

    I'll bet there's a lot of Pac10 fans that wish they could go back in time and trade U/Colo for OU/OSU right about now.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 1:15 p.m.

    @poyman - Draper, UT

    In FB they [PAC-12] have shown to be the 6th and perhaps the 7th best conference in the country behind the other 4 P5 conferences and the AAC and possibly one other G5 conference.

    ----------

    According to Sagarin, PAC-12 is as good as ACC.

    75.43 PAC-12 (#4 North & #9 South)
    75.19 ACC (#6 Atlantic & #8 Coastal)

    The only difference, Clemson rules and USC is a dumpster fire and an Urban Meyer hire away from glory.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 12:15 p.m.

    poyman - Draper, UT
    May 16, 2019 10:32 a.m.
    @Bluto

    Excellent comments . I believe you nailed it with your characterization of utah's success in the very weak pac12...

    Today the AAC is a far better FB and BB conference than the pac12 and in BB this year the pac12 (the only P5 conference west of Denver) was a sad 3rd best Division 1 Conference in the west. In FB they have shown to be the 6th and perhaps the 7th best conference in the country behind the other 4 P5 conferences and the AAC and possibly one other G5 conference.

    -----

    SMH

    BYU success was in the WAC. Let me guess, 1970 and 80s WAC was the SEC of the West?

    Sagarin Football:
    #4 P12 North
    #9 P12 South
    #10 MWC Mtn
    #11 AAC East
    #12 AAC West
    #13 Independent

    2018 Utah played 4 top team from North to win the South, #26 SOS. By definition that is not weak. Weak is 1984 BYU, again by definition.

    Sagarin Basketball:
    #6 PAC-12
    #7 AAC
    #8 MWC
    #12 WCC

    You have been proven wrong, please keep your fake news on Cougar boards. Thank you.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 16, 2019 11:53 a.m.

    @NDCoog

    Future BYU Schedules

    2019 - (4 P5) Utah, Tennessee, USC, Washington, Utah St, Boise St
    2020 - (6 P5) Utah, Mich St, ASU, Minnesota, Missouri, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St
    2021 - (7 P5) Arizona, Utah, ASU, Baylor, Wash St, Virginia, USC, Utah St, Boise St
    2022 - (5 P5) Utah, Baylor, Oregon, Arkansas, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St
    2023 - (6 P5) Tennessee, Virginia, Utah, Arkansas, USC, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St

    ------

    It is an entertaining schedule, but I hope you like losing.

    2014: 3-2
    2015: 3-4
    2016: 4-4
    2017: 0-6
    2018: 2-5

    Notice a trend?

    2019: 2-4 at best
    2020: 2-6
    2021: 3-6
    2022: 3-4
    2023: 3-5

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    May 16, 2019 11:43 a.m.

    If fans are serious about their belief that BYU is on the verge of success as an independent, then let’s finally make the AD and the coaches accountable. The AD created this mess gambling on the possibility of joining the B12. He lost and lost big. Let the university president acknowledge that this is the deciding year. At least 8 regular season wins or the AD is gone and, unfortunately the football coaches go with him. I am sympathetic to being expected to compete when you have only 4 games on the schedule where the Cougars are favored but that is what they signed up for. Without firing Holmoe at the end of the this season, he will be gambling again on the hope that any G5 conference is willing to take BYU in light of the past 2 years and the next 2 brutal years’ schedules on the horizon.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 16, 2019 11:32 a.m.

    @poyman - Draper, UT

    You being a BYU fan, may well think every conference is better than the PAC12. Utah fans have grown to expect nothing less.

    The AAC has been a good conf. and BYU should join that conf. The AAC, with their new TV deal, will make more per team per yr. than ESPN pays BYU.

    Really hard to say they are better than the PAC 12, but everyone is welcome to their opinion.

    With the exception of Clemson, I think the AAC is definitely better than the ACC. But that's just me.

    The services that actually rank conferences and even divisions of conferences, have yet to put the AAC higher than any P5 conf. to date.

    The AAC is typically #6 with the MWC being #7 generally.

    From both a revenue and competition perspective, if BYU had to choose between the PAC12 and the AAC, it's a no-brainer. It's the PAC12 by a mile (or 10s of millions of $$ per yr. per team). And being able to consistently play some of the most storied football programs in history wouldn't stink either.

    Don't let your deep dislike of Utah taint your view of reality.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 16, 2019 10:55 a.m.

    @mussingaround - Palo Alto, CA

    BYU is, by design, Utah's toughest OOC opponent. We replaced them with Michigan for a couple yrs.

    I don't know anyone who says otherwise.

    Now, BYU hasn't been great the last few yrs. But the idea is to schedule the rivalry and BYU, for Utah, even if BYU is down, is going to be a tough game. We know that. It's a rivalry.

    Most teams don't make the CFP. In fact the vast majority of teams won't.

    Are you suggesting Utah shouldn't even try because of that? It's actually possible they do make the CFT, but not likely.

    It's literally impossible for BYU to make it. Even if they are undefeated, BYU may not even make a NY6 bowl. Honestly. Let alone the "CFP run" that so many BYU fans seem to think could be a reality.

    I'll just save you some time and tell you it's not even possible currently.

  • poyman Draper, UT
    May 16, 2019 10:40 a.m.

    @hawaii navel,

    "... I know of no G5 D1 conference that will consider BYU as of today. The MWC is not even a possibility..."

    *****

    Then you are not very well connected.

    BYU could be in the MWC next year if it wanted to... They could also be in the AAC with an organizational twist that would include an East and West Division. I think that those would be the only G5 considerations. The MWC would require BYU to take a sizable revenue haircut which I don't think that they would do, and the AAC would have to restructure some which is probably not too likely in the near future.

    In the meantime, BYU should continue to improve their November scheduling in FB and do all they can to hel the WCC become the Big East version of BB in the west.

  • poyman Draper, UT
    May 16, 2019 10:32 a.m.

    @Bluto

    Excellent comments . I believe you nailed it with your characterization of utah's success in the very weak pac12. The utes represent 9% of the big bad pac12 and they have won a whopping 2.5% of the conference titles awarded since they entered.

    Today the AAC is a far better FB and BB conference than the pac12 and in BB this year the pac12 (the only P5 conference west of Denver) was a sad 3rd best Division 1 Conference in the west. In FB they have shown to be the 6th and perhaps the 7th best conference in the country behind the other 4 P5 conferences and the AAC and possibly one other G5 conference.

    If BYU had the choice of playing in the pac12 or the AAC, I would hope that they would choose the AAC. The pac12 is really dependent on just a couple of programs for what little relevance that they have today... In FB it's UW, USC and sometimes Stanford (and none of these have been very good lately)... and in BB it has been AZ and Oregon and they have not done all that well lately either.

    Would I like to see BYU in a Conference? Sure, especially a P5 Conference (i.e. the Big 12 or the B1G, not the pac12). The AAC would be the only G5 conference that would be of interest to me.

  • JustGordon Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2019 10:01 a.m.

    The alt universe that so many of our little blue brothers live in is both humorous and worrisome.

    According to one poster, Utah lacks the "courage" to play east of Denver...the true this Utah doesn't need to for recruiting purposes to play east of Denver. Besides losing in Madison, East Lansing, Landover, Charlottesville, South Bend, Tallahassee, New Orleans, and Starkville are really a testament that their program is "not ready for prime time. That's why in late October and November the schedule is as poor and unattractive as Mr. Buck says it is.

    Jason Buck speaks truth to delusion and the Provo faithful attack their more than successful Big Brothers on the Hill by alleging, lamely, that the Utes "lack the courage." If anybody lacks "courage" it is the administration in Provo that insists that independence was not a mistake...even though Buck and others who are objective can see that the program as back down the rabbit hole to where it was before Edwards. Edwards' era is an anomaly. The truth is before him, football in Provo was a disaster....not too much different from now!

  • Jumpyman Salt Lake City, UT
    May 16, 2019 9:26 a.m.

    I think that best thing that BYU could do is to hand over the football program to UVU. Then they get past all of the honor code and academic restrictions and the Sunday play. Then I can cheer for the Couga... err Wolverines all I want along with all of the the other church members around the world... Or I can just be happy with the product that BYU has realizing that they stand for something which may decrease their ability to recruit 5-star athletes, and maybe cause some prejudice with all of the intolerant tolerant folks. I for one like independence. I just want to see BYU start winning all of the teams they should beat, and win a few of the P5 games as well. Let's get back to being consistent winners.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    May 16, 2019 8:53 a.m.

    ArizonaUte

    LOL at the dance.

    Utah fans claim that scheduling BYU weakens Utah's schedule, yet BYU has consistently been Utah's strongest OOC opponent.

    If the Utes were really concerned with beefing up their OOC schedule they'd start by dropping the FCS warm up games from their schedule and replacing them with quality P5's and G5's.

    The truth is, Utah will never be a serious CFP contender, so Utah fans are simply spouting off about a non-issue.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 16, 2019 8:10 a.m.

    @Bluto - Sandy, UT

    Your attempts to minimize Utah is both humorous and ironic all at the same time. We'll call it ironic humor.

    So, Utah has both Houston and Baylor on upcoming schedules. Those are both east of Denver.

    But Utah also plays 10 P5 or "P5 equivalent for scheduling purposes", on the schedule every yr. How about BYU? Hmmm.... No? Well better go east of Denver then.

    The BYU fan seeming need to minimize Utah is ironic because of the recent BYU record against Utah. Ok, Utah is terrible, a bottom feeder, a "coat tailer" yet BYU can't beat them.

    Even when they have a large lead late in games (happened once, otherwise BYU rarely has the lead in any game v. Utah in recent history) BYU can't finish.

    I love the lists Utah randomly gets put on by BYU fans. Any of those teams win their division of their conference? Any of those teams preseason ranked and picked to win their conf.?

    Ironic humor indeed.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 16, 2019 7:51 a.m.

    @BYU Joe - MISSION VIEJO, CA

    You are right about winning. But it's a 'catch 22'.

    BYU isn't actually good enough to make any noise against the better schedules hence the losses. But if you don't schedule the better teams to play, what is the point of Independence?

    BYU hasn't improved recruiting. What makes you think they are suddenly going to start winning against the better teams on their schedule?

    Yeah, Wisconsin was ranked #6 when you played them last yr. and beat them. But that Wisconsin team didn't finish ranked at all.

    BYU has yet to win a game against a PAC12 team with a winning record, as an independent.

    BYU has beaten 1 team who finished ranked, in their time as an Independent. USU in 2012.

    BYU hasn't finished a season ranked in the AP top 25 or BCS/CFP Polls, as an Independent. That's a decade, including the last season in the MWC.

    Now your going to suddenly start winning because Zach Wilson had a great bowl game v. a terrible team?

    Um, ok...........

    Yes winning solves your problems. The issue is how are you going to do that? You don't think they are trying to?

  • CoHawk Littleton, CO
    May 16, 2019 6:32 a.m.

    You want November games to be relevant??? Win your Sept and Oct games!!! That will do it!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2019 6:15 a.m.

    @Hawaii-Ute aka Naval

    Your obsession with BYU is telling.
    We know who your rival is.

    To Jason Buck;

    How many Conference Championships has Utah won since joining the worst P-5 League in the land?

    Three!

    That's right, three whole Championship, in 9 years, out of over 120 titles awarded.

    It's not like Utah is setting the world on fire. Utah finishes well below BYU in the Directors Cup standings, year after year. Not to mention in the Academic rankings. USNWR and Forbes to name a few.

    As for BYU's schedules now vs when you played Jason?
    Not even close.

    If you took the best of the AAC, MWC and BYU, you would have a Conference well on par with the Pac-12.

    When the new TV contracts come up in a few years, look for the whole P-5 myth to be shuffled.

    Prestige base solely on TV contracts is absurd. Utah, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Wake Forrest et. al., are the Washington Generals of their leagues of Blue Bloods. In other words coat-tailers.

    The problem is that Utah never has the courage to play on the road east of Denver.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    May 16, 2019 5:57 a.m.

    Jason should finish his degree so that he can be eligible for the College Hall of Fame and BYU's Hall of Fame, as did McMahon.

    First things first Jason.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 16, 2019 12:59 a.m.

    Just the FAX:

    "You’re completely clueless if you think that Kansas would have replaced Oklahoma St in the P10-B12 merger.....Oklahoma NEVER would have agreed to that."

    On the contrary my teeny-tiny little bro. It's clear that the "completely clueless" party herein, is YOU!

    1. Chip Brown had already reported that Okla St was "out" of the deal, and that Utah & Kansas were the Pac-10's targets for a 16-team league.

    2. Oklahoma wasn't the prize. Texas was. So it really doesn't matter what OU would-or-would-not agree to. Oklahoma can't get into the Pac-10/12 without the Longhorns. That's why Oklahoma was never invited. That's why when Oklahoma (and Okla St) applied for membership the following year, they were denied admission. No Texas = no Oklahoma.

    3. Even if Oklahoma said, "we won't go unless our little brother comes too", it wouldn't have mattered. If the Pac-10 got Texas, they'd just tell the Sooners, "Sorry. They can't come. They don't fit our academic model. If you don't want to come, then fine. Stay there. We got Texas, so we don't really need you guys. We'll just take Tx Tech, and become the Pac-14. Good luck with your conference."

  • MesaAZCoug Mesa, AZ
    May 16, 2019 12:08 a.m.

    @Uteology: recruiting class in the 90s trending down...

    Yes, recruiting better is important, but IMO, coaching is even more important than recruiting. Anecdote time!
    I grew up in TX and played 6 man football at a small school. Sophomore year we were terrible. Our coach was ... not good. Most of the players quit before season end, and those of us who stuck it out decided not to play in subsequent seasons. Thus the new coach had to try to compete with an undersized, all freshman team. His first season was a winning season. His second season they went to state. 3rd season, they 45'd the other team in the state championship (45 point spread mercy rule). There were some good athletes on the team, sure. But mostly they were just really well coached.
    TX high school football anecdotes not enough to convince you? How about Utah? Y'all leveled up when Urban Meyer came through town. It wasn't amazing recruits who went and smacked around Alabama - it was a well coached team.
    I'm seeing the pieces come together for BYU under the current coaching staff. We're not there yet, but we're getting better depth and improving our fundamentals. We'll be more competitive than class #s would indicate.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 15, 2019 11:15 p.m.

    Mythologist:
    "While YOUR Team A celebrates margin of defeats. Pure Entertainment!"

    Really? This is it? Gotta say I'm disappointed, even with low expectations to begin with.

    Anyway, FWIW I have never celebrated margin of defeats for UGA or BYU (whichever one you've concocted as A or B...I have no idea this your obsession not mine). Meanwhile, YOU have absolutely tooted your little red horn about an "entire shelf full" of pseudo bizzarro "trophies" like SOS and CFP playoff rankings...and yes, I do think that's hysterical.

    So I guess to some up: I can't speak for other BYU fans but I have never celebrated margin of defeat, and while you can't speak for other U fans, YOU have absolutely celebrated pretend accomplishments like SOS and CFP rankings. So next time I should just mock YOU instead of U...noted lol.

  • MesaAZCoug Mesa, AZ
    May 15, 2019 10:30 p.m.

    Outside of some of the traditional posturing, there have been some pretty good comments on here - from both sides of the aisle.

    @azute, thanks for pointing out that Navy, Cinci, and Connecticut all have P5 OOC status. If BYU could keep that, a good G5 conference (like AAC) could be a decent way forward. It would at least make November more interesting.

    As to why so many of us are fans of I ndependence, I can't speak for others. For myself, it's WAY better than where we've been. I can actually watch my team play, for one. And the commentators know football. And discuss it intelligently. And fairly. Also, as tough as our September always is, it's great getting to see how the Cougs fare against some of the football blue bloods. It's not always pretty (exhibit A, Washington 2018, basically all of 2017), but it definitely has its moments (exhibit B, Wisconsin 2018, Nebraska 2015). We may not have a straight shot to the best bowls, but most of the fun of those bowls for me is to see how my team does against good teams. I now get that every September; I don't have to wait to see if we win our conference and hope some committee smiles on us. We just schedule them. It's not bad.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 15, 2019 7:45 p.m.

    navelvet

    You’re completely clueless if you think that Kansas would have replaced Oklahoma St in the P10-B12 merger.

    Oklahoma NEVER would have agreed to that.

  • BYU Joe MISSION VIEJO, CA
    May 15, 2019 6:20 p.m.

    Winning solves all problems. Independence, the PAC 12, the SEC or whatever. Winning is the ticket.

    Vanderbelt is in the SEC and Oregon State is in the Pac 12. So what? Winning matters no matter where you are.

    Win BYU and everything gets better. Lose and you stay just like you are now.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 15, 2019 5:56 p.m.

    @rlsintx - Saratoga Springs, UT

    2011 BYU won 10 games and did not finish ranked in the AP top 25. Only 10 win team not ranked in the AP top 25. And a couple 9 win teams finished AP top 25.

    2015 BYU won 9 games; no end of season rankings
    2016 BYU won 9 games; no end of season rankings

    Yeah, independence has been awesome. But "BYU will be fine when it strings together a couple of 9 win seasons again."

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 15, 2019 5:45 p.m.

    @A mormon in Oregon - Salem, OR

    Thanks for the comments. And I agree with your TV assessment but think that will be resolved in due time with any conference. The new TV deal the AAC struck, pays more per team per yr. than ESPN currently pays BYU per yr. And they will be on a LOT.

    G5s have an auto-bid to a NY6 game and a handful of different teams have made it. All with a loss or two, except UCF recently. Boise made it with 2 losses. Those are big $$, big exposure bowl games.

    BYU has WAY less access currently. BYU would literally have to go undefeated and even then may not get a NY6 invite. There is literally no path or mechanism for BYU to make a NY6 bowl.

    They would have to rely on the mercy of the bowl itself to forego a conference tie-in and take BYU instead of say, the P5 conf. runner up from the conf. affiliated with that particular bowl.

    A 10-2 MWC champ who is ranked #25 but higher than any other G5 team makes it in over a #10 ranked BYU who is undefeated.

    It's the set-up currently. Welcome to independence.

  • rlsintx Saratoga Springs, UT
    May 15, 2019 5:14 p.m.

    BYU will be fine when it strings together a couple of 9 win seasons again.

    It'll take a while to get over the immature start of the Sitake era with so many never-coaches staffing it, then it'll be fine.

    Relax Buck.

  • Ocomeonow Sea Ranch, CA
    May 15, 2019 4:35 p.m.

    BYU should give up football. They are in a great basketball conference of religious based schools, some of whom also play great Rugby, which is more fun to watch, and the players are all healthier during and after their careers. Many of the other teams are nationally significant too.
    The fact not mentioned ever, it seems, American football is in a decline. There are not enough good players west of Texas for the Pac-12 or the MWC to compete with any of the other conferences. The rest of the country is too far away; recruits want family and friends to come to games or be able to watch them--every game! They also want to be seen by pollsters and NFL audiences. Too many games are starting after 9pm eastern time, and most watchers have already been watching for 8 hours, so revenue is never going to be on par with the Eastern or Central time zone games.
    Finally, there are too many teams in Utah, Idaho (Dixie, SUU, Idaho state are all in small metro areas) trying to be big time and many other areas in the country competing for all of the above.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 15, 2019 4:24 p.m.

    skywalker:

    “…the PAC 10 was ready to accept [Oklahoma St] with open arms if the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger hadn't fallen apart.”

    Not really. As I’d already told you before, the Pac-10 was NOT willing to add Oklahoma St. They didn’t like the Cowboys academic credentials. Had Texas accepted the Pac-10’s offer, the 6 teams that would have been invited would have been Texas, Tx Tech, Okla, Utah, and Kansas (Colo had already accepted their invitation).

  • A mormon in Oregon Salem, OR
    May 15, 2019 4:12 p.m.

    @ArizonaUte

    Here’s why Indy is better: The chance of making it to and NY6 bowl is extremely limited at best from a G5 conference so being Indy is no worse. At least as an Indy you get to play more P5 teams and many more BYU games are televised outside of Utah. I rarely saw BYU televised while in the MWC. And a “better“ bowl game really is meaningless unless it is an NY6 bowl. Who cares about the other bowls? They don’t mean anything now that the BCS is here. All this talk about conference championships doesn’t mean anything. Sure, it may mean something to the players but this is entertainment. It has to mean something for the fans for it to be relevant. And in today’s day and age, the only thing that really matters in football is and NY6 bowl or, in basketball, to win a national championship or at least advance far in the NCAA tournament.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 15, 2019 3:45 p.m.

    Questions for BYU fans:

    Why is Independence so great? What is it about independence that you all like so much?

    These are honest questions. There is no right or wrong answer. And I am not trying to bait anyone into anything. Just truly curious.

    For me, since 1979 - current, BYU has never been less relevant than in the Independence era.

    BYU was never more relevant than in the WAC era. That conference doesn't even exist today for football.

    I would possibly agree with "exposure" with the exception of some of the most highly viewed games in the Independence era, were embarrassing shut-out losses for BYU. But Nebraska was a cool, hail-Mary win. Again, argument could be made.

    But making it to a NY6 bowl, from a G5 conf. would trump any viewership of any game BYU has had in Independence.

    My other real knock on Indy. BYU has zero access to meaningful post season bowls.

    It's no guarantee that an undefeated BYU makes a NY6 bowl. They would NOT make the CFP. It's not a real possibility. Not enough P5 opponents and no CCG. It won't happen in today's landscape.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 15, 2019 3:43 p.m.

    @ OldMain,

    Utah State is gonna pound BYu yet again this year. USU actually cares about playing BYu.....about the only team I know of, in fact.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    May 15, 2019 3:41 p.m.

    skywalker:

    “…the PAC 10 was ready to accept [Oklahoma St] with open arms if the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger hadn't fallen apart.”

    Not really. As I’d already told you before, the Pac-10 was NOT willing to add Oklahoma St. They didn’t like the Cowboys academic credentials. Had Texas accepted the Pac-10’s offer, the 6 teams that would have been invited would have been Texas, Tx Tech, Okla, Utah, and Kansas (Colo had already accepted their invitation).

  • OldMain Saratoga Springs, UT
    May 15, 2019 3:31 p.m.

    I think many BYU fans are still in a state of denial. There is a really good chance that Utah State is going to beat BYU again this season. Boise State took the 1980s BYU model and made it work for them. USU is beginning to do the same. There is no denying that BYU and USU are now on par with each other.

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    May 15, 2019 3:12 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "...BYU D1 sports is in HUGE trouble and there is no fix for them in the 21st century. The LDS 1st presidency is watching closely and I believe they will re-focus BYU to a religious school only."

    You're welcome to your opinion, sir, but BYU making improvements to LES this summer contradicts any notion that any such decision is imminent.

    Ricks jumping from junior college to four-year university was an entirely different situation.

    Instead of being a feeder school, like Snow College, BYU-Idaho would have been competing directly with BYU for the same players, watering down the pool of LDS players for both schools.

    That, and jumping from JC to FCS or FBS status would have been very expensive.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 15, 2019 2:34 p.m.

    @ LonestarRunner,

    I see your point sir, and agree. However, most Y fans truly live in the clouds of hope/dreams and when the painful reality is presented, they lash-out by reflex only.......never absorb that reality.

    The bottom line sir........BYu D1 sports is in HUGE trouble and there is no fix for them in the 21st century. The LDS 1st presidency is watching closely and I believe they will re-focus BYu to a religious school only.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2019 2:09 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum - "I think it is rather unfortunate that some Y fans are throwing Jason Buck..."

    I fail to see any difference between throwing Jason Buck under the bus or throwing Tom Holmoe under the bus.

    Both were great BYU players, but that doesn't mean that they're immune from criticism if someone disagrees with their opinion.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    May 15, 2019 1:59 p.m.

    Forty Six & 2

    re: “Despite Utah's #17 final CFP ranking, #22/#21 Utah State, #18/#18 Fresno State, and #23/#24 Boise State were all more relevant than unranked Utah in the only polls that really count, the final AP and Coaches polls”

    HA! Now you’re a USU/Boise fan?

    One doesn't have to be a fan of any particular team to understand reality.

    It's hilarious how Utah fan trumpeted their #2 final AP ranking in 2008, even though Utah finished #6 in the final BCS ranking.

    The only difference today is that four teams are invited to the playoff, instead of only two.

    The principle remains the same:

    BCS and CFP rankings are only important if they actually get you a berth with a chance to play for the national championship.

    Anything other than that is strictly also ran territory, where final AP and Coaches poll rankings are the only things that really matter.

    It's funny how Utah fans mock Western Michigan and Hawaii, but fail to see themselves in that same mirror.

  • Forty Six & 2 Salt Lake City, UT
    May 15, 2019 1:29 p.m.

    talkinKleenex- Gilbert, AZ

    “Despite Utah's #17 final CFP ranking,

    #22/#21 Utah State, #18/#18 Fresno State, and #23/#24 Boise State were all more relevant than unranked Utah in the only polls that really count, the final AP and Coaches polls”

    HA! Now you’re a USU/Boise fan? Maybe just worry about where your cougs are ranked! Or haven’t been ranked rather...in nearly a decade. No wonder you guys are so uptight. Just be content with how “amazingly awesome” independence has been thus far. Go cougs?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 15, 2019 1:28 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    May 15, 2019 1:10 p.m.
    Uteology:
    "What's adorable is using you [sic] using your Team B's accomplishments to mock Utah."

    This is truly the gift that keeps on giving. I didn't even mention UGA or a "Team B" so what exactly are U talking about? FWIW UGA fans aren't happy about those rankings either...we don't like the fact we've only been in the CFP once and lost in devastating fashion (watching highlights of that all last year was brutal).

    But since YOU brought them up, I will say that UGA fans don't celebrate our SOS or CFP rankings to mitigate our disappointment and/or failures. So since U wanted to bring my Dawgs into the conversation I will gladly mock U in comparison now.

    --------------

    While YOUR Team A celebrates margin of defeats.

    Pure Entertainment!

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 15, 2019 1:15 p.m.

    AGAIN!!!!! I wholeheartedly agree with Cougsndawgs intuitive assessments about BYu sports and all sports in general. That is whY his blatant honesty created such a wonderful friendship between us. He simply gets "it" and is a fine LDS gentleman that I revere 100%.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 15, 2019 1:10 p.m.

    @ Gandalph,

    Most real Utes, Crimson Club board members, administration/faculty want BYu gone on all schedules. However, "The U" has to contend with the DEMANDS of the Utah State Legislature and their owners, who also own BYu. I hope you realize those unfortunate facts as it relates to Utah's quandary that haunts us horrifically to this very day.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 15, 2019 1:10 p.m.

    Uteology:
    "What's adorable is using you [sic] using your Team B's accomplishments to mock Utah."

    This is truly the gift that keeps on giving. I didn't even mention UGA or a "Team B" so what exactly are U talking about? FWIW UGA fans aren't happy about those rankings either...we don't like the fact we've only been in the CFP once and lost in devastating fashion (watching highlights of that all last year was brutal).

    But since YOU brought them up, I will say that UGA fans don't celebrate our SOS or CFP rankings to mitigate our disappointment and/or failures. So since U wanted to bring my Dawgs into the conversation I will gladly mock U in comparison now.

  • Gandalph Sandy, UT
    May 15, 2019 12:49 p.m.

    utemythology

    "BYU = Pure irrelevant!"

    It's hilarious how obsessed Utah-SLC fans are with pure irrelevant BYU.

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    May 15, 2019 12:45 p.m.

    AP/Coaches polls > CFP rankings

    Unless you're ranked in the final CFP Top 6, you're not even considered a contender for a CFP berth.

    Despite Utah's #17 final CFP ranking,

    #22/#21 Utah State, #18/#18 Fresno State, and #23/#24 Boise State were all more relevant than unranked Utah in the only polls that really count, the final AP and Coaches polls.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 15, 2019 12:39 p.m.

    I would like to see CFB divide formally into divisions of G5 and P5 (the divide already exists). I know that won't be popular but as a fan of a P5 program I see some harsh realities that my BYU brethren need to face. It's no longer a level playing field and hasn't been for a while now.

    BYU has NEVER been able to pull the blue-chip athletes...they have pulled blue-chip QBs and even lineman, but never the speedy and athletic WRs, CBs, etc. UGA on the other hand pulls them frequently, but alas doesn't have a NC since before BYU's.

    There's a reason UGA hasn't won a NC since before BYU's. It's hard in the SEC...the level of competition is ridiculous. BYU has NEVER had to compete at that level, and enjoyed a lot of success running through inferior competition. As a UGA fan I can't tell you how infuriating it was for us watching Boise St, Utah, and TCU play tiddly winks and moving up the polls, while we're facing Auburn, LSU, and UF on a weekly basis. Now Utah fans finally know how that feels. I don't think the metrics for ranking will ever be in BYU, UCF, Boise's favor again...divide it already.

    That's the honest hard truth that I think Y fans have to face.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 15, 2019 12:28 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT

    "Enjoy your annual margin of defeat victory at 3rd in State."

    Enjoy your pretend trophies and achievements. U should really ask Hardan to make some stadium banners celebrating your SOS and CFP rankings lol. Pure entertainment

    ---------------

    Newsflash! CFP and SOS trophies are MUCH better than being 3rd in State.

    Maybe Holmoe can do another power point presentation on beating top #6 Wisconsin like his presentation on beating #3 Oklahoma in 2009?

    BYU = Pure irrelevant!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 15, 2019 12:21 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    May 15, 2019 10:52 a.m.
    Uteology:
    "No! We have a(n) entire shelf full of CFP rankings."

    I'm sorry, but I literally laughed reading this. This is a microcosm of the insecurity of U fans. Seriously? We celebrate SOS AND number of CFP rankings now? That is just adorable lol.

    Have U ever even been close to an actual playoff? No. Even remotely in the discussion? No. So no one outside the crimson conservatory cares one lick how many times you were ranked 23rd in the CFP poll.

    --------------

    What's adorable is using you using your Team B's accomplishments to mock Utah.

    No one cares?

    Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oklahoma account for 70% of the playoff berths.

    The other 6 berths, one each: #8 Notre Dame, #9 Michigan State, #12 Georgia, #13 Florida, #18 Washington, and #29 Oregon.

    Even if you rank teams based on berths first then rankings:

    #11 LSU
    #12 Utah

    Both teams have zero playoff berths.

    Personally, despite not having a playoff berth, I don't mind being on par with LSU.

    I don't mind BYU "fans" enjoying being on par with Wyoming.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 15, 2019 11:33 a.m.

    I think it is rather unfortunate that some Y fans are throwing Jason Buck, who is speaking the painful truth actually, under their glorious BYU-HD truck.

    But, that is the "way" it has always been down there......... "Ignore the message, and then brutally attack the messenger."

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    May 15, 2019 11:26 a.m.

    Congratulations - BYU football is all about eyeballs for TV, and not for competition and winning championships?

  • Grunao Provo, UT
    May 15, 2019 11:17 a.m.

    Are you kidding?

    I would much rather be independent and play USC, Tennessee, South Florida, Washington, Michigan State, Minnesota, Missouri, Houston, Stanford......than limited to Wyoming, Colorado State, UNLV, Fresno St.....

    In addition, most BYU games are currently televised.

    Now if only BYU could win....that would be better. If they keep losing...who knows?

  • Aunty Mythology Monrovia, CA
    May 15, 2019 11:16 a.m.

    New to Utah - "Jason Buck is spot on. It was a disaster to decide to go independent. MWC is a champion building conference. BYU would be at best be the third best team after Boise State and Utah State."

    Utah State's "big reward" for having their best season in 50+ years,

    was playing in the New Mexico Bowl against a North Texas team that lost to La Tech, Alabama Birmingham, and Old Dominion.

    -------------

    As far as being the 3rd best team in the MWC, behind Boise State and Utah State, the numbers don't support that:

    Sagarin Rankings since 2011:

    2011 #34 BYU (10-3) > #80 USU (7-6)
    2012 #26 BYU (8-5) < #19 USU (11-2)
    2013 #35 BYU (8-5) > #41 USU (9-5)
    2014 #56 BYU (8-5) < #52 USU (10-4)
    2015 #36 BYU (9-4) > #74 USU (6-7)
    2016 #36 BYU (9-4) > #112 USU (3-9)
    2017 #112 BYU (4-9) < #89 USU (6-7)
    2018 #72 BYU (7-6) < #27 USU (11-2)

    Top 40 Finishes:
    BYU 5 > USU 4

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    May 15, 2019 11:08 a.m.

    Look at all the pathetic ute fans snuggle up to Jason Buck. It's really sad where both of them have gone.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 15, 2019 11:07 a.m.

    @BlueCoug - Provo, UT

    Those are some nice schedules and 10 yrs. into Independence, BYU is finally getting those kind of schedules.

    The problem is that even with the schedules to date, as an Independent, none of which have been harder than those upcoming schedules, BYU has yet to finish a season ranked in the AP top 25 or get ranked, for even one week, in the new CFP Poll.

    It's questionable if BYU will do well against any of those schedules.

    Looking at those, I see 15 yrs. straight of not finishing ranked. Basically 15 yrs. of NOT being relevant.

    I guess it's all about what you want. Tough schedules against better teams that you lose to, or a less tough schedule, with some marquee teams, that you win a LOT more with?

    Are the schedules proving you belong? Or are they proving something else?

    BYU has lost 15 games with the last two schedules combined. Just say'n.

  • Aunty Mythology Monrovia, CA
    May 15, 2019 11:02 a.m.

    utemythology

    "We have a entire shelf full of CFP rankings.

    1. Alabama 31 5 #1(18)
    2. Clemson 31 4 #1 (8)
    3. Ohio State 31 2 #2 (3)
    4. Oklahoma 29 3 #2 (1)
    5. LSU 27 0 #2 (1)
    6. Utah 24 0 #10 (1)

    yet, Utah has NEVER been a legitimate contender for a CFP berth, that is, ranked in the final CFP top 5 or 6.

    In other words, all of those CFP rankings are nothing but window dressing; meaningless in the big picture.

    Your CFP ranked, 2018 division champion, didn't even get a sniff at a CFP berth, and when final grades came out, Utah wasn't even good enough to be ranked in the AP or Coaches.

    Utah State was ranked higher in the final polls than U.

  • Stanton Spokane, WA
    May 15, 2019 10:53 a.m.

    The lesson BYU has never learned is that winning is more important than who you are playing.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    May 15, 2019 10:52 a.m.

    Uteology:
    "No! We have a(n) entire shelf full of CFP rankings."

    I'm sorry, but I literally laughed reading this. This is a microcosm of the insecurity of U fans. Seriously? We celebrate SOS AND number of CFP rankings now? That is just adorable lol.

    Have U ever even been close to an actual playoff? No. Even remotely in the discussion? No. So no one outside the crimson conservatory cares one lick how many times you were ranked 23rd in the CFP poll.

    "Enjoy your annual margin of defeat victory at 3rd in State."

    Enjoy your pretend trophies and achievements. U should really ask Hardan to make some stadium banners celebrating your SOS and CFP rankings lol. Pure entertainment

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 15, 2019 10:49 a.m.

    @Holy-Schamoly-What Baloney - Kaysville, UT

    Talk about BYU narrative......never fails to amaze.

    BYU has NEVER been in the Rose Bowl, let alone won it. Period. The End.

    Funny that you think they have.

    Can I introduce you to a new internet based tool called "Google"?

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 15, 2019 10:43 a.m.

    @ERB - Eagle Mountain, UT

    Decent theory regarding QBs and QB play. Here is something to consider.

    BYU still gets good QBs. Taysom Hill is in the NFL as a 3rd string QB. And Tim Tebow says he would have been special had he been on a better team.

    Tanner Mangum, who got beat out by ZW, was an Elite 11 co-champ with Jamis Winston (NFL staring QB). And Tanner has a few NFL camp invites.

    It may be that BYU isn't developing QBs as well these days?

    It may be that BYU doesn't have the horses around the QBs, to help them shine. This is more likely the scenario.

    Tanner Mangum beat Arizona and Wisconsin last yr. Zach Wilson beat Hawaii, UMass and New Mexico State. Regular season.

    Tanner Mangum lost to #13 UW, Cal (P5) and #22 USU. ZW lost to Utah, NIU and Boise.

    Both went 3-3 in the regular season. And while Mangum would have beaten the same teams ZW did, it's questionable if ZW wins against AZ or Wisc. He may have. But it's a question.

    It's way more than just QB play. QBs play better when not running for their lives or when there is a better run game or when their WRs are great.

    Lot's of factors to consider, re: QB play.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    May 15, 2019 10:40 a.m.

    Honestly, why does anyone care what Jason Buck has to say? Does he donate money? Does he work for the university? Does he have some special pass?

    I do agree that Independence has ruined BYU football, all for the sake of being on TV. The current student body isn't interested in simply attending some meaningless exhibition. Maybe one day BYU will be part of a Power conference again, but I'm not holding my breath.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 15, 2019 10:23 a.m.

    @portlander - Arlington, WA

    I honestly wonder if BYU is really any different today than in the past. They just play a harder schedule today than they ever did before. And as a result, simply lose more games.

    In the WAC days and in the MWC days, BYU had about the same level of recruit. Relative to recruiting rankings.

    BYU always gets a couple really good recruits and then fill out rest. Recruiting rankings have remained the same for BYU, basically, since they have been measured.

    What has changed is the level of competition as an independent. And it's fair to say that if the teams of old played the schedules of today, they likely have the same results as BYU today.

    Just a theory.

  • New to Utah Provo, UT
    May 15, 2019 10:09 a.m.

    Jason Buck is spot on. It was a disaster to decide to go independent. MWC is a champion building conference. BYU would be at best be the third best team after Boise State and Utah State. The stubbornness of athletic director Tom Holmoe to stay on the course to oblivion is remarkable. BYU would draw more fans and be a better team if they bite the bullet and rejoin MWC.

  • Holy-Schamoly-What Baloney Kaysville, UT
    May 15, 2019 10:01 a.m.

    Except for journalists that need a negative story about BYU, no one is asking Jason Buck what the school should do. He's a known quantity, thanks...input no longer needed.

    If the world ended next week or in 500 years BYU would still have a National Championship. Of course Utah doesn't even have an appearance in the Rose Bowl (except for a regular season game and BYU has that, with a victory to boot) or a PAC12 Championship. So thanks for all the ute supporters once again clamoring to post the most clever put down they can imagine, which in their mind elevates their program. Too bad that doesn't come with a trophy.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    May 15, 2019 10:00 a.m.

    Jason is spot on.

    BYU generally plays a representative schedule prior to November.

    Going into November BYU enjoys a schedule that usually favors their win column.

    Jason's comparison with what has happened in Logan as opposed to what is happening in Provo is an accurate picture of reality.

  • portlander Arlington, WA
    May 15, 2019 9:25 a.m.

    The worst part of the last several years is BYU's decline and lack of competitiveness. And that starts with recruiting. Kids want to go to SEC schools. Kids want to go to Big 10 schools. Kids want to go to PAC 12 schools. But kids also want to go to Notre Dame. BYU has go to get back to getting the kids, especially the fruit of the LDS kids, wanting to go to BYU. For the chance of an education, yes. But in sports, for the chance to be on top tier, nationally ranked, dominant teams as well.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 15, 2019 9:18 a.m.

    bemorefair - , 00
    May 15, 2019 6:59 a.m.
    Reading some of these comments leaves me feeling like I'm taking crazy pills. There's so little understanding of why BYU is still independent...

    6. BYU is being patient. P5 inclusion is the big prize and they are still pursuing it.

    -----------------

    Yes for the last 45 years. The problem? No ones pursuing BYU.

    "In the early years, I think BYU felt that they had outgrown the conference and their people were talking about how BYU would go to the Big 12 or the Pac-10. They used to come into the Utah game always talking about who they would be playing in their bowl game.... When we started beating them, they stopped talking about their bowl game." -- Ron McBride

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 15, 2019 9:14 a.m.

    @MesaAZCoug - Mesa, AZ
    Even so, I'm not in a rush to give up independence. As many have pointed out already, if we win more with our current scheduling, it will solve a host of problems. I feel like our current coaching staff is laying the groundwork to do just that.

    ------------

    How, with class rankings trending down (in the 90s over the last 3 years)?

    BYU football won't be winning many games, specially against P5 teams. You never have, even Edwards was just 38% vs P5. Only from 1974-1983 did BYU have a winning record, I believe 11-4 vs P5 over that period.

    What you don't seem to understand is your talent level and a limited recruiting pool puts you as a bottom feeder in any P5 league. Which is why no one wants to coach at BYU.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 15, 2019 9:06 a.m.

    @LoneCoog
    utemythology

    "Key injuries in 2018 derailed Utah's season, 4 of the 5 loses were to top 20 P5 teams."

    Ah yes, the whiny "injury" excuse. He's a clue, EVERY team suffers injuries; whatever happened to the Ute mantra "next man up"?

    "2018 Utah played a top 25 SOS, finished #29 in the nation. The 2009 #12 BYU (#61 SOS) wasn't as good as 2014, 2015 #17 Utah (#28 SOS), 2016, and 2018 Utah teams."

    Utah's CFP ranked, 2018 division winning team, was swept by Washington, suffered an epic meltdown versus a barely ranked bowl opponent, and wasn't good enough to be ranked in either major poll.

    Enjoy your SOS trophy.

    The Utes must have an entire shelf in their trophy closet dedicated to SOS trophies

    ----------------

    Every team loses their starting QB, RB, and WR? SMH

    The same 2018 team that played 16 minutes off good football to take your team to the woodshed 35-7. Is that the team you are trying to mock?

    No! We have a entire shelf full of CFP rankings.

    1.Alabama 31 5 #1(18)
    2.Clemson 31 4 #1 (8)
    3.Ohio State 31 2 #2 (3)
    4.Oklahoma 29 3 #2 (1)
    5.LSU 27 0 #2 (1)
    6.Utah 24 0 #10 (1)

    Enjoy your annual margin of defeat victory at 3rd in State.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 15, 2019 8:49 a.m.

    @MesaAZCoug - Mesa, AZ

    So, point of clarification.

    BYU isn't the only "P5 equivalent for scheduling purposes". Actually, Notre Dame (duh), Army, Cincinnati, Connecticut and Navy all have that same honor. Frankly, Boise and UCF should too and may get that label soon. But don't currently have it.

    BYU wouldn't lose that "P5 for scheduling purposes" label because they are in a G5 conf. Cinci, UConn and Navy are all in G5 conferences.

    So, yes, BYU could still schedule a tough OOC slate......if they wanted to.

    I am not proposing the MWC but just G5 in general. BYU needs access to meaningful post season bowls. Currently they are on the outside looking in.

    Heck, go to the AAC. Their new TV contract gives each team around $7mm per yr. from TV alone. BYU gets around $5mm from ESPN. Not the mythical $10mm+ that is the BYU narrative. Revenues get publicly reported to the NCAA. You can look it up.

    BYU could make more $$ in the AAC with their TV deal alone. Let alone the extra revenue for scheduling the P5 money games. As I am suggesting.

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    May 15, 2019 8:34 a.m.

    @bemorefair

    I vehemently agree with you; Independence is the best option for BYU until the winds of change create an opportunity for BYU to join a P5 conference.

    Independence has allowed BYU to schedule these teams in the next 5 seasons:

    2019 - (4 P5) Utah, Tennessee, USC, Washington, Utah St, Boise St
    2020 - (6 P5) Utah, Mich St, ASU, Minnesota, Missouri, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St
    2021 - (7 P5) Arizona, Utah, ASU, Baylor, Wash St, Virginia, USC, Utah St, Boise St
    2022 - (5 P5) Utah, Baylor, Oregon, Arkansas, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St
    2023 - (6 P5) Tennessee, Virginia, Utah, Arkansas, USC, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St

    Anybody claiming that those schedules aren't far superior to what BYU could schedule as a G5 member isn't being realistic.

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    May 15, 2019 8:28 a.m.

    It was the arrogance of BYU's move to independence that bothered me, and it is the continued arrogance of BYU fans that continues to bother many people!

    Even though it is one of my alma maters, BYU is nothing special. A dose of reality and humility is sorely needed!

  • blue & white , 00
    May 15, 2019 8:19 a.m.

    I prefer being in a conference while independence is such a more challenging schedule and fun to see a win against a P5 and have more opportunities to get a win vs a P5. The Boise State model is to play one P5 most years followed by a week off then go into a weaker schedule, become ranked and play for a conference championship and in the hunt for a NY 6 bowl. That sounds more fan appealing. BYU needs to figure out how to beat Utah and Boise State because we are so close to beating them each year. Utah State is slipping into the Utah and BSU category. Once we get over that hump perhaps we’ll fair better against other P5 teams resulting in a higher chance for a P5 invite. So our three rivals can help us get a P5 invite with convincing wins over them on a regular basis. Go Cougs!

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    May 15, 2019 8:01 a.m.

    @azute1

    "Honestly, couldn't BYU still have, in essence, the same schedules if they wanted to, from the MWC?"

    Have you even looked at BYU's future schedules?

    2019 - (4 P5) Utah, Tennessee, USC, Washington, Utah St, Boise St
    2020 - (6 P5) Utah, Mich St, ASU, Minnesota, Missouri, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St
    2021 - (7 P5) Arizona, Utah, ASU, Baylor, Wash St, Virginia, USC, Utah St, Boise St
    2022 - (5 P5) Utah, Baylor, Oregon, Arkansas, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St
    2023 - (6 P5) Tennessee, Virginia, Utah, Arkansas, USC, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St

    BYU has 28 P5's scheduled in the next 5 seasons, an average of nearly 6 per season.
    USU has 7 P5's TOTAL scheduled in the next 5 season, barely more than 1 per season. BYU has that many in 2021.

    Honestly, BYU couldn't even come close to matching their schedules for the next 5 seasons, if the Cougars were in the MWC.

  • Sportsfan123 Herriman, UT
    May 15, 2019 7:57 a.m.

    Buck only has a valid point in that joining a lesser conference means an easier schedule and more wins.

    Outside of that BYU's biggest problem is recruiting, they no longer get the best LDS kid's anymore, they no longer attract blue chippers that used to come to play for lavell on a regular basis, you can't compete in a race against thurough breds while only having quarter horse's in the stable.

    BYU and it's strict honor code gets in the way along with academic qualifications so high very few athlete's qualify.

    When BYU does get an occasional blue chipper in the program they are having a hard time keeping them eligible to play and end up losing them to academic or honor code disqualification. Students who fit the bill academically would rather to go to stanford or other prestigeous programs and not have to deal with the outdated honor code along with it, sometimes that is too much for young athletes who want to grow a beard and drink a cup of joe, or wear shorts on campus and not worry that someone will turn you in to the compliance office for a minor offense because of their 5 o-clock shadow.

    None of that goes away by joining a G5 conference - Buck.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    May 15, 2019 7:57 a.m.

    utemythology

    "Key injuries in 2018 derailed Utah's season, 4 of the 5 loses were to top 20 P5 teams."

    Ah yes, the whiny "injury" excuse. He's a clue, EVERY team suffers injuries; whatever happened to the Ute mantra "next man up"?

    "2018 Utah played a top 25 SOS, finished #29 in the nation. The 2009 #12 BYU (#61 SOS) wasn't as good as 2014, 2015 #17 Utah (#28 SOS), 2016, and 2018 Utah teams."

    Utah's CFP ranked, 2018 division winning team, was swept by Washington, suffered an epic meltdown versus a barely ranked bowl opponent, and wasn't good enough to be ranked in either major poll.

    Enjoy your SOS trophy.

    The Utes must have an entire shelf in their trophy closet dedicated to SOS trophies.

  • axle Riverton, UT
    May 15, 2019 7:55 a.m.

    We played the game for a long time. Dominate the conference, get into the top 10 nationally, get the media talking about you, Heisman trophy candidates etc. Where did it get us? I think the biggest bowl game we made it to was the Cotton Bowl against a good Kansas State team. We would end every year crying and moaning to the media trying to convince anyone that would listen that we deserved better. Didn't accomplish anything.
    So you try something new. Maybe if we go independent we can play top competition and show everyone we belong. It may work, or the reasons for keeping us out will just be adjusted so that we will continue to cry and moan and petition congress and it still won't matter.
    The NCAA football money game simply makes it nonsensical and unfair.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 15, 2019 7:52 a.m.

    Football is not a priority for the lds church. They've got a nice ESPN contract and get to keep all of the money. Why change?

  • CoHawk Littleton, CO
    May 15, 2019 7:32 a.m.

    Moving to a conference filled with sub standard teams isn’t the answer to anything except more wins! This is a ridiculous argument. Jason isn’t being very smart at all. The problem is recruiting and coaching has to come up in performance and then the team will do better. That is the issue. Sitake is gradually upgrading the personnel and I think he is on the right track. Dave Rose wasn’t on the right track. I am inclined to give Sitake 3 more years to fully get his type of players on the roster. Money, exposure to fans all over the country, ESPN and BYUtv are huge draws for recruits, and a tough schedule gives us a measuring stick. Indy is the best option for now. I don’t think Holmoe is wrong on this issue. He isn’t wrong on Sitake but he was way wrong on Rose and Emery ...... just not Indy!

  • GiveMeLibert Cedar Rapids, IA
    May 15, 2019 7:31 a.m.

    The easiest solution would be for the Church to drop football and focus BYU on serving the education needs of its global membership; not this glorified American-centric hobby.

  • bemorefair , 00
    May 15, 2019 6:59 a.m.

    Reading some of these comments leaves me feeling like I'm taking crazy pills. There's so little understanding of why BYU is still independent.

    1. If BYU wanted back into the MWC, it would happen today, because BYU brings incredible clout with it. It brings power, money, a huge national/international fanbase, and would instantly improve any conference it is in. (That would be true even for the lagging PAC-12.) No G5 would turn that down. The commissioner would be fired for dereliction of duty.
    2. BYU got USU into the MWC. The administrators over there are eternally grateful to BYU, USU fans' delusions notwithstanding.
    3. BYU TV ratings for indy BYU are solid. For example, BYU-Wisconsin drew exact same numbers to USC-TX. Both games were played week 3. BYU likes having its own channel and being seen nationally/overseas. ESPN picked up the BYU TV option - very telling.
    4. BYU's schedule is always one of the toughest in the country from Sept-Oct. This year is no exception. It's OK for it to lighten up in November. This is independence reality.
    5. Money is much, much better as an independent than G5.
    6. BYU is being patient. P5 inclusion is the big prize and they are still pursuing it.

  • ERB Eagle Mountain, UT
    May 15, 2019 5:59 a.m.

    I am like blue coug, and like independence. The problem is not independence, the problem is lack of good quarterback play. BYU may finally have a good quarterback. Some people complained of BYU hast to play two or three terrible teams every year. Back during the Mountain West and WAC, BYU played 5-6 terrible teams every year, including Utah. Anyone over 40 remembers Utah calling it a good year if they beat BYU but went 2-9. Other stellar teams were New Mexico, UTEP, and UNLV. The rest would have one good team a decade. Colorado St, Hawaii, San Diego St, Air Force, and Wyoming were thrilled to beat BYU once in 5 years. For 20 years BYU won the conference championship almost every year. During the WAC years, Utah won the conference championship exactly twice, 1964 tied w a 3-1 record, and 1995 tied BYU and CSU with a 6-2 record. BYU won it 19 times.
    Again, it’s not the conference. It’s the QB for BYU.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 15, 2019 4:51 a.m.

    Riddles in the Dark - Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 14, 2019 5:35 p.m.
    Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 5:03 p.m.
    @ Riddles,

    “Like I stated previously, BYu has not beaten a ranked P5 team in over 20 years.”

    While disingenuously ignoring the fact that BYU finished MUCH, MUCH higher in both major polls, #12/#12, than Utah has finished since 2009.

    Utah’s “CFP ranked”, 2018 division winning team wasn’t good enough to be ranked in either poll.

    Proving that all of your blustering about CFP rankings is more hot air, than substance.

    ------

    Key injuries in 2018 derailed Utah's season, 4 of the 5 loses were to top 20 P5 teams. BYU has FOUR wins vs P5 top 25 teams in over 100 years.

    2018 Utah played a top 25 SOS, finished #29 in the nation.

    The 2009 #12 BYU (#61 SOS) wasn't as good as 2014, 2015 #17 Utah (#28 SOS), 2016, and 2018 Utah teams.

    In fact BYU has yet to play a top 40 SOS and finish ranked. Utah has done it 3 of the last 5 years.

  • MesaAZCoug Mesa, AZ
    May 15, 2019 12:35 a.m.

    @azute,
    Honestly, couldn't BYU still have, in essence, the same schedules if they wanted to, from the MWC?

    Honestly I don't think they could. A lot of P5 teams schedule BYU because we're considered a P5 non-conference opponent. If we went back to a G5, I don't think we'd get most of the good games we're able to play now.

    I personally have no interest in going back to the MWC. Horrible TV coverage, profit sharing for bowl games, and 8 middle to bad G5 games each year does not sound like an improvement. I don't think the AAC would be a horrible step - it has enough good teams to be like the MWC of old when Utah and TCU were BCS busters. Even so, I'm not in a rush to give up independence. As many have pointed out already, if we win more with our current scheduling, it will solve a host of problems. I feel like our current coaching staff is laying the groundwork to do just that. We're developing depth across the board, and within the next few years, if not this year, that will start paying dividends. I hope we tough it out. If not, I hope we look at the AAC and not the MWC.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    May 14, 2019 11:49 p.m.

    WACpaddled

    “If BYU went back to the WAC, they could immediately get to 11-2 again.”

    Who would BYU play; the WAC doesn’t even sponsor football anymore?

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    May 14, 2019 11:37 p.m.

    Arizona Ute

    "2017, BYU literally played 8 MWC..."

    BYU will literally never play that 2017 schedule again, so why are you even evaluating that schedule instead of future schedules?

    BYU could join the SEC tomorrow and it wouldn't affect who BYU played in 2017.

    Future BYU Schedules

    2019 - (4 P5) Utah, Tennessee, USC, Washington, Utah St, Boise St
    2020 - (6 P5) Utah, Mich St, ASU, Minnesota, Missouri, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St
    2021 - (7 P5) Arizona, Utah, ASU, Baylor, Wash St, Virginia, USC, Utah St, Boise St
    2022 - (5 P5) Utah, Baylor, Oregon, Arkansas, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St
    2023 - (6 P5) Tennessee, Virginia, Utah, Arkansas, USC, Stanford, Utah St, Boise St

    BYU has 28 P5's scheduled in the next 5 seasons, an average of nearly 6 per season.
    USU has 7 P5's scheduled in the next 5 season, barely more than 1 per season.

    In 2022, USU plays at Alabama, at BYU, and at Boise St - that should be fun.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 14, 2019 11:33 p.m.

    lueCoug - Provo, UT
    May 14, 2019 10:21 p.m.
    This fan is fine with Independence, better than G5, not as good as P5.

    BYU’s future schedules will be filled with 4 to 6 P5’s, something that would only occasionally happen with an 8-game MWC schedule.

    A better solution would be a scheduling agreement with the MWC, similar to what Notre Dame has with the ACC.

    Could help the MWC attract better bowl and television agreements.
    _____

    Are you serious? LOL!
    The MWC is where BYU should be. And they would be better off with a scheduling agreement with the PAC12, But that will never happen or with any other conference for that matter.
    Please stop with the invented prestige of the BYU football program. The MWC is already on several TV networks. It does not need BYU to help them.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    May 14, 2019 11:31 p.m.

    The debate regarding the relative merits of independence vs joining one of the better G-5 conferences (meaning the MWC or AAC) has raged for years now and I think that most of us have heard the arguments in support of both sides repeated numerous times.

    I am all in for begging the MWC to let us rejoin -- and with enough contrition (which would be necessary because officials at certain MWC schools, including USU and SDSU, believe our past behavior was not laudable) they would allow this. The AAC just doesn't make sense for us geographically.

    Some comments about other comments:

    1. "We have just as much of a chance at getting a New Year day bowl being independent as we would have if we were in a G-5 conference." -- This is not the case. The highest ranked G-5 conference champion (not the highest ranked non-P5 team) is guaranteed such a spot. We would be competitive for the MWC championship year after year (and, yes, this would enhance the likelihood of a P-5 invite, although this probably is an unrealistic pipe dream for the foreseeable future).

    2. Comparing our football program's standing/national brand/developmental possibilities to Notre Dame's is just utterly silly.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    May 14, 2019 11:26 p.m.

    I disagree, most Americans prefer BYU in a fetal position sitting 3rd in State as an Indy while thier fanbase jumps on Team B bandwagons.

    I think the exposure has been great for BYU.

    CFP Rankings
    Utah State 1 (like Fresno)
    BYU 0 (like North Texas)

  • A mormon in Oregon Salem, OR
    May 14, 2019 11:20 p.m.

    First, a hearty hello to all the Ute fans yet again on a BYU story comment board. Yes, that means you @SoonerUte, @ariute, @Tomahawk Red, @ Brave Sir Robin and, the two most prolific BYU followers, @ArizonaUte and @Utah-Hawaii Alum. Glad you still support our university, with it superior academics, and, overall, better athletic programs save football and gymnastics. (I will concede the U has a better medical school.). Anyway, Buck is wrong. Who cares what he thinks? Why is his opinion even considered? I’d rather go 6-6 or 7-5, play better teams and get to actually watch games rather than waste away in the WAC or MWC and play for conference “championships.” Who cares??! Really, unless you’re one of the final four teams, what does it matter? What good is a “better” bowl game if it’s too far for the fan base to travel. I love my team but I’m not traveling to watch any bowl game that isn’t part of the bowl championship series. And for all the U fans, BYU may only have one national championship, but it’s still more than the U has, or ever will have.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    May 14, 2019 11:08 p.m.

    JD - "The truth hurts, but the Aggies have been the second best team in Utah for several years now."

    Only if that were the truth.

    Sagarin Rankings since 2011:

    2011 #34 BYU (10-3) > #80 USU (7-6)
    2012 #26 BYU (8-5) < #19 USU (11-2)
    2013 #35 BYU (8-5) > #41 USU (9-5)
    2014 #56 BYU (8-5) < #52 USU (10-4)
    2015 #36 BYU (9-4) > #74 USU (6-7)
    2016 #36 BYU (9-4) > #112 USU (3-9)
    2017 #112 BYU (4-9) < #89 USU (6-7)
    2018 #72 BYU (7-6) < #27 USU (11-2)

    Top 40 Finishes:
    BYU 5 > USU 4

    Average Ranking 2011 through 2018
    #51 BYU > #62 USU

    Longest current bowl winning streak in the state: BYU

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    May 14, 2019 10:32 p.m.

    The truth hurts, but the Aggies have been the second best team in Utah for several years now. I think Weber State needs to get a game against Provo because I'd bet the house they could hold their own and probably beat the boys from Utah Valley that wear Aggie blue.

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    May 14, 2019 10:21 p.m.

    This fan is fine with Independence, better than G5, not as good as P5.

    BYU’s future schedules will be filled with 4 to 6 P5’s, something that would only occasionally happen with an 8-game MWC schedule.

    A better solution would be a scheduling agreement with the MWC, similar to what Notre Dame has with the ACC.

    Could help the MWC attract better bowl and television agreements.

  • ahmonk , UT
    May 14, 2019 10:17 p.m.

    There are problems with independence, but people do realize that the big games that were away are typically BYU plays away and get a return visit 5-10 years later. I get that sucks, but we have started getting into that 5-10 years.

    2020 home - MSU, USU, Missouri, Houston, SDU, North Alabama. Only one guaranteed bad
    2021 home - Team up north, ASU, USF, BSU, Virginia, Idaho State. Only one bad
    2022 home - Baylor, Wyoming, USU, Arkansas, Dixie State, East Carolina. Bit worse, possibly decent
    2023 home (so far) - Tennessee, Team up north, BSU, UNLV, Stanford. Only one bad (but maybe two)

    Home schedules are without question better than what we would have in the MWC.

    Also money and tv-access is definitely better.

    But it is true that recruiting, relevance, end of season motivation/excitement, and other stuff is worse. The schedule complaint is kind of silly though.

  • Ben H Clearfield, UT
    May 14, 2019 10:00 p.m.

    It is wonderful how everyone thinks that the MWC will just welcome back BYU like they were the prodigal son. Those bridges have been burned, and there are some in the MW that definitely would not welcome them back. USU may not be able to resist the opportunity to give BYU the ultimate payback for keeping the Aggies out of their conference.

    BYU has slid into mediocrity for many reasons. Their conference affiliation is only part of the problem. Fix the other problems, as much as they can, and let the rest take care of itself.

  • nananana batman St. George, UT
    May 14, 2019 9:58 p.m.

    I want byu to join the aac with Boise st. Army and AF.
    Commander in Chief rivalry all in the same conference byu has a travel partner. Aac would have 16 teams and a footprint in every P5 neighborhood.

  • Caddis Terry, MT
    May 14, 2019 9:40 p.m.

    It certainly is a coin with two sides. Below I commented that I would choose a conference affiliation. And I would. And yet many of you can certainly make the point for staying. I do enjoy watching the games. I enjoy the excitement of playing teams we have never seen against BYU. I’m a fan either way.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2019 9:25 p.m.

    Fans don't want to return to the MWC because Utah fans might tease them. Ironically, most Utah fans enjoy BYU independence. 8 years of zero accomplishments, and no sign of that changing anytime soon. Why would "haters" want to see the Cougars return to conference championships and 11 win seasons? Cougar fans now accept 8 wins as a great season, 7 wins as good, and 6 wins as acceptable.

  • BrianB Greencastle, IN
    May 14, 2019 9:07 p.m.

    This is an argument of whether you want to be a big fish in a small pond or a little fish in a big pond. It doesn't matter. Neither leads to a river that leads to the sea.

    BYU will not play on Sunday. Many conferences will not like that. The P-5 are about money. All the talk of academic excellence is a smoke screen. Athletics is always run outside of the academic part of the university.

    Boise has a far better track record than UCF or TCU, who have had excellence more recently. But Boise is third choice. Why? Because the elitists in the P-5 are biased toward Texas and Florida. A G-5 team has to run the table to make the P-6, unless they are in Texas or Florida.

    Lastly, to the blind Ute fans, you are as bad as the blind Y fans. Except for medicine, no one outside Utah (and possibly some places in the west) respects the U as a great educational institution. I have heard more about the academic reputation of Utah State (aeronautics, agriculture, sciences) than I have the U. A little bit of humility on the part of all partisans would go a long way.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    May 14, 2019 8:57 p.m.

    BYU has crossed the Rubicon, burned their bridges to a crisp, and painted themselves into a corner. There’s no going back.

  • doctorguber salt lake, UT
    May 14, 2019 8:48 p.m.

    I don’t know how to say this in a nice way but are we asking the opinion of a P5 or G5 administrator their perspective of Byu? Or are we asking a former NFL player who hasn’t had much success in any ventures after his playing career. As a player, this guy knows his crap. Not sure about perspectives on administering a program though. I had to comment just so I could make myself feel better after spending time reading this. At least I can watch the football games with their espn deal. Nobody could watch the football games whilein the Mountain West conference.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    May 14, 2019 8:40 p.m.

    bemorefair - , 00
    May 14, 2019 10:56 a.m.

    If BYU went back to the WAC, they could immediately get to 11-2 again. But is that the right path? I guess if all you care about are wins against lower G5 teams, sure. But BYU has their eyes set on being included the next round of musical chairs in approximately 5-6 years. So, until then, we go it alone. If our pioneer ancestors could do it, we certainly can do it with the help of ESPN and ABC.
    _____

    And right there is the problem. If ESPN / ABC wanted BYU in a P5. It would have already happened.

    There is no incentive for BYUs TV contract to be renewed. Phantom TV ratings, Fake national brand and a mythical traveling fan base won't do it.

  • ariute Farmington, UT
    May 14, 2019 7:53 p.m.

    BYU-P will continue to stick with independence. If they were to beat 'all' the teams they scheduled then it would be successful but unfortunately it hasn't really panned out. The 'win' over Wisconsin was one of the highlights but we have to face the fact that BYU-P hasn't beaten Utah since they joined the Power 5.

  • Tomahawk Red Miami Beach, FL
    May 14, 2019 7:40 p.m.

    front ranger - Loveland, CO
    May 14, 2019 12:38 p.m.

    Utah's best seasons, by far, occurred while the Utes were in the MWC, so why aren't you clamoring for the Utes to return to the MWC?

    ----------

    Because Utah's not in independence no-man's land

  • Caddis Terry, MT
    May 14, 2019 7:27 p.m.

    I wish, hope, that we will one year very soon make this change. I have agreed with this for so long. Let’s face it. We may and will knock off a ranked school occasionally, but we are not going to get the invite. And I dont even want it anymore. Realistically, I no longer believe inclusion in a P5 is in the school’s best interest. I indeed believe it would be a long term negative.
    Without repeating all of the points Buck makes, I agree with every one of them.

  • BleedingBlue Provo, UT
    May 14, 2019 7:22 p.m.

    P5 or independence, anything else is a crock of horse manure.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    May 14, 2019 6:47 p.m.

    @skywalker

    "BYU has the exact same Carnegie Research University ranking
    - Doctoral Universities – High research activity -

    as Baylor, TCU, and, until this year, Oklahoma St..."

    The one big, gigantic, enormous, huge difference: Baylor, TCU, and Oklahoma St. aren't on academic probation. BYU-P is.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    May 14, 2019 6:38 p.m.

    @Striker

    "BYU is fine where they are. It took Notre Dame awhile to get really good."

    Um, Notre Dame has been independent from day one. They have won 11 National championships over those years. So, I suppose that did take a while.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 14, 2019 6:15 p.m.

    So.........

    Most every major accomplishment BYU has in football, was from the time they were in the WAC.

    Independence has not been good for BYU in creating relevance or advancing the goal of P5 inclusion. Haven't beaten your rival or finished even one season in the AP top 25 as an independent. And that's just scratching the surface.

    But BYU fans scoff at the idea of going to a G5 conference?

    Give Jason Buck a break. He has a really valid point and actually played, as a player, for BYU way back when. His opinion is WAY more informed than a basic fan's is. He also loves BYU and wants the best for them.

  • cmsense Kaysville, UT
    May 14, 2019 5:52 p.m.

    I tend to agree with Jason Buck. Be a great regional team in MWC, if BYU hasn't burned too many bridges to get back in, and have something to play for every year. During special years, they may even be ranked.

    It is not like if your name is not Clemson, Alabama, Ohio St and maybe a handful of other schools, that the typical P5 school bottom or middling school has much chance getting into the playoffs either.

    The excitement of the P5 and all the realignments are basically done. The same few schools seem to get most the money and most of the recruits every year. Forget about that. Too many BYU haters out there to get into a P5, and lately not showing they are the most deserving either.

    I would be more than happy if BYU would join the MWC again, and focus on doing well there and have more excitement about which bowl BYU is going to every year.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 14, 2019 5:49 p.m.

    @Valhalla - Alpine, UT

    It's actually a rare season where BYU doesn't play, basically, a MWC schedule but with a tougher OOC slate.

    And if BYU were in the MWC, literally nothing would prevent them from scheduling the P5 teams they do today. They would just be OOC games. So, you could have the best of both worlds.

    2017, BYU literally played 8 MWC, or worse, teams and 4 P5 teams. 6 of those 8 were actually from the MWC. Going 3-3 v. the MWC.

    2018, BYU played 5 P5 teams (rare, BTW), and the other 8 were MWC or worse teams, 3 actually from the MWC. Going 1-2 v. the MWC.

    The last 2 yrs. alone BYU has lost 15 games and the vast majority of your schedule was MWC teams or worse.

    In 26 games, the last 2 seasons, BYU has played 9 total P5 opponents.

    Meaning 65% of BYU's opponents have been weaker teams from the MWC or worse (worse = McNese State, NM State, UMass, E. Carolina, Portland St., NIU, etc.). And from the MWC, Hawaii, UNLV, SJSU.

    Honestly, couldn't BYU still have, in essence, the same schedules if they wanted to, from the MWC? If they were willing to schedule tougher OOC opponents like they, basically, do now?

  • Turtles Run Houston, TX
    May 14, 2019 5:44 p.m.

    BYU could try to join the American Conference. With schools like UCF, Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati the opportunity to play superior teams in what many consider the best of the G5 conferences would be great football for BYU. Plus the opportunity to show their product to two of the best areas to recruit - Texas and Florida. It is a no brainer.

  • justbereal , 00
    May 14, 2019 5:45 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum has spent quite a bit of time commenting for saying how much he doesn't care about the Y. Some other Utes as well.

    It's a tough spot to be in for BYU. I'm not a fan of the MWC alternative, but there has been no progress with independence either. The AAC is not talked about by many, but that's a better alternative than MWC imo. Holmoe may have missed that ship, but at one point their AD was interested.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 14, 2019 5:35 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 5:03 p.m.
    @ Riddles,

    “Like I stated previously, BYu has not beaten a ranked P5 team in over 20 years.”

    While disingenuously ignoring the fact that BYU finished MUCH, MUCH higher in both major polls, #12/#12, than Utah has finished since 2009.

    Utah’s “CFP ranked”, 2018 division winning team wasn’t good enough to be ranked in either poll.

    Proving that all of your blustering about CFP rankings is more hot air, than substance.

  • CoHawk Littleton, CO
    May 14, 2019 5:29 p.m.

    Jason hasn’t been good at seeing excellent business opportunities. BYU is much better off financially bring Indy! Exposure, TV, big name opponents etc. I am for Indy and winning 3 out of 4 games. Winning will cure everything and we won’t look back. I think Sitake is the guy for the job and Pope is headed in the right direction. Give it 3 more years and let’s take a look at where we are!

  • kaysvillecougar KAYSVILLE, UT
    May 14, 2019 5:12 p.m.

    Is this the monthly article on how Jason Buck doesn't like independence. Waaaaaaah. We all wish and believe that BYU should be a part of a P5 conference. It's not because we're not trying. The politics and timing of things just haven't worked out. But there are probably 10% of BYU fans who would prefer the MWC or another G5 conference to independence. Jason Buck happens to be one of them. The rest of us will bide our time until a P5 invitation occurs.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 5:12 p.m.

    To any and all........."Silence is golden."

    It happens annually for two weeks after the BYU-Utah football game during this decade. I love peace and tranquility that contest affords me and all Utes........a beauty of nature indeed.......

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 14, 2019 5:11 p.m.

    @Riddles in the Dark - Olympus Cove, Utah

    You realize that....

    1) You listed 2 P5 teams who didn't finish in the top 25, even though they were in the top 25 when you played them. Oklahoma alone lost 5 games that yr. They were definitely down.

    2) The comment you responded to said BYU doesn't beat ranked P5 teams unless they are down. Utah at #18 is great (also the last time BYU beat Utah) but Utah wasn't a P5 at the time.

    So, you really just proved his point while trying to stomp on it.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 14, 2019 5:04 p.m.

    @Some.BYU.Dude - Mesa, AZ

    Three things:

    1) The academic thing is more about grad programs than under grad. Masters, PhD programs, Medical School, Law, Dental etc. And the ability to raise tons of grant $$ for research. THAT is what they mean by academics. Not undergrad rankings.

    2) BYU's athletic department is profitable and that is cool. But it's also aided by the fact that the AD doesn't have to fund facilities. The school does that out of a different budget. And that provides enormous financial relief for the AD. So, in a different way, the AD is basically subsidized by BYU the institution.

    3) While you love being independent, BYU literally has zero access to meaningful post season play. ZERO! A 2 loss BSU went to a NY6 game due to the G5 auto-bid. An undefeated BYU has no guarantee of making a NY6 bowl.

    Independence has been a rough ride. Zero top 25 AP finishes, zero weeks in the CFP Poll, 8 NFL draftees in 10 yrs, have yet to beat Utah as in Indy, USU beat BYU twice in a row, lost 15 games the last 2 seasons alone, been shut out twice as an Indy, etc, etc, etc...

    Every accomplishment BYU has was from the WAC. Think about that.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 5:02 p.m.

    @ Some BYu Dude,

    Nielsen Ratings are the standard, not some bogus website claim.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 5:03 p.m.

    @ Riddles,

    Like I stated previously, BYu has not beaten a ranked P5 team in over 20 years. Early or late weekly rankings don't mean anything at all. Final rankings and CFP rankings are the game.

    BYu isn't in the "game" or any factor whatsoever, sir.

  • Some.BYU.Dude Mesa, AZ
    May 14, 2019 4:56 p.m.

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum

    BYU doesn't get the TV ratings? I want you to look through the 2018 TV Ratings on sportsmediawatch.com. Go find BYU almost every week in games, and notice how Utah is nearly non-existent in terms of numbers I can find. Deal with it.

    Week 1 - BYU 1 (12th), Utah 0
    Week 2 - BYU 2 (16th), Utah 0
    Week 3 - BYU 3 (6th), Utah 1 (9th)
    Week 4 - BYU 4 (10th), Utah 1
    Week 5 - BYU 5 (17th), Utah 2 (11th)
    Week 6 - BYU 6 (14th), Utah 3 (17th)
    Week 7 - BYU 6, Utah 3
    Week 8 - BYU 7 (23rd), Utah 4 (15th)
    Week 9 - BYU 8 (22nd), Utah 4
    Week 10 - BYU 8, Utah 4
    Week 11 - BYU 8, Utah 4
    Week 12 - BYU 9 (22nd), Utah 4
    Week 13 - BYU vs. Utah, so, BYU 10, Utah 5

    Of 13 regular season weeks where BYU had a bye, BYU got on the top 10 of 12 games. Utah 5 of 12. BYU also had the highest viewed week of the two schools. Bowl games had the same TV rating, although Utah had a higher viewership.

    IDK if the PAC-12 Network was included, but it's the PAC-12 Network, so LOL.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    May 14, 2019 4:54 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    BYU beating then #3 Oklahoma (finished #26/#29) , #18 Utah, and then #16 Oregon State (finished #27/#27), all in 2009,

    DESTROYS your claim that BYU only beats nationally known programs in off years.

    The poll voters obviously recognized the quality of those wins by rating BYU #12 in both polls, MUCH, MUCH higher than Utah has been ranked since joining the PAC 12 less than 6 months later.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 4:53 p.m.

    @ Some BYU Dude,

    There is not ONE academic only ranking body in the world that has BYU anywhere near Utah, not even close. You are using the ONLY ranking(USN& WR annual incoming freshmen advertising supplement) that exists where BYU is ranked higher than Utah. There is another Forbes ad supplement recently favoring BYU as a bargain school and outranks Utah.

    Utah is a real education pal. Good luck!

  • Some.BYU.Dude Mesa, AZ
    May 14, 2019 4:32 p.m.

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum

    I've done plenty of research. That's why you threw out statements, I gave you numbers, and then you didn't contend them, lol.

  • Valhalla Alpine, UT
    May 14, 2019 4:30 p.m.

    I love Jason Buck, but I disagree with his logic. Playing so-so teams week in and week out, like we did back in the day, along with inferior TV coverage and profit sharing models that favored the weaker programs has little appeal and will frustrate even those fans that are clamoring for a conference.

    Congratulations to Utah State for creating a winning program, but claiming that this is due to a jump from the WAC to the Mountain West is a bit off. Utah State has been the beneficiary of increased academic standards forced on Utah after their PAC12 membership. BYU has always required higher academic standards. This, along with great coaching, has given Utah State access to talent that it did not have before. Conference alignment has little to do with it, and Utah State is no closer to any championship series than they were before. The elites are and will always be elitists.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 4:23 p.m.

    @ Some BYU dude,

    You need to start doing some legit research and not believe the folks that live in a dream.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 3:57 p.m.

    @ ND95CA,

    Of course BYu sports is doing fine financially until the LDS 1st presidency says "no more.".They're owned by the most lucrative privately owned corporation in the world by far. BYu is no tv "partner" to ESPN. ESPN floats BYu's ship. Look at the Neilsen Ratings.......BYu doesn't sell, that simple. That is whY ESPN only committed to 3 home games only and are paid a sum based upon time slot, channel and airing time. This is the last year of the ESPN contract.......did you know that sir?

    You claim BYu beats nationally known teams........ in off years only. Utah beats ranked nationally relevant teams. BYu has not beaten a ranked P5 team in over 20 years.

  • Some.BYU.Dude Mesa, AZ
    May 14, 2019 3:56 p.m.

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum

    Where do you get your information? The BYU athletics program is actually revenue generating. It has a budget and has a profit, lol. The church doesn't have to allocate a bunch of money to it, haha. Give me a break.

    Also, comparing BYU to BYU-Idaho doesn't make sense in how you're doing it. Two totally different levels of academics. If you look at how BYU-Idaho is utilized now, sports doesn't really even make sense anymore.

  • Some.BYU.Dude Mesa, AZ
    May 14, 2019 3:45 p.m.

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum

    BYU can't get in to a P5 due to academics? What planet are you on? Utah isn't even a top 100 university, and BYU is consistently top 65. LOL. Go look at P5 academics. It doesn't matter. That's a laughable and ignorant thing to say.

  • DeepBlue Anaheim, CA
    May 14, 2019 3:45 p.m.

    Seldom Seen Smith - "The football schedule has all the continuity and tradition of a K-Mart blue light specials. Annual incarnations of a cobbled together incoherent mess."

    You'd rather see a steady diet of home-and-homes with Wyoming, New Mexico and Colorado State,

    with your reward for your best season in 50+ years being a trip to the New Mexico Bowl

    to play North Texas?

    A team that lost to La Tech, Ala-Birm, and Old Dominion?

    I'll take the cobbled together incoherent mess of

    Utah, at Tennessee, USC, Washington, Boise State, and at Utah State

    with some fillers

    ANY DAY!

  • Some.BYU.Dude Mesa, AZ
    May 14, 2019 3:40 p.m.

    2016 - USU is 3-9.
    2017 - Matt Wells is on the hot seat after little success the previous years and going 6-7.
    2018 - Oh man, look at them. 11-2. Ermergersh. Look at the comparison! They beat powerhouse North Texas in a bowl game. They've arrived!!!!

    Buck is void of logic. What conference championship are they playing for? USU hasn't played for a conference championship. 2017 and the years prior weren't any good, and they have one good year, and suddenly, boom, look to them? Lulz. They played North Texas in a bowl game when they're ranked #22 and went 11-2, hahaha.

    They are successful because they're in a conference? So, what about the rest of the MWC teams. Are they good because they're in a conference? SJSU is killing it...because they're in a "strong" conference.

    I'll take harder competition, better game times, easy TV viewing, and money any day of the week over the chance of winning the MWC. Fresno State, MWC champion, played ASU, a 6-6 team, in the Las Vegas Bowl. Doesn't seem like life is better.

    So, no. I'll keep my independence any day of the week over MWC.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    May 14, 2019 3:32 p.m.

    carnak

    "Holmoe is taking BYU football to the same place he took Cal football."

    Not even close.

    Holmoe took over a floundering Cal program with an empty talent cupboard and left the program with a cupboard stocked with good players.

    Since becoming BYU's AD in 2005, BYU has only had one losing season and has played in 14 bowl games.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    May 14, 2019 3:19 p.m.

    It speaks volumes for the insecurities of the BYU haters,

    that they'd prefer seeing BYU fail,

    than to see their team beat the BYU on the gridiron or the hardwoods.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    May 14, 2019 3:11 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "It may not happen under the present first presidency, but there is a member of the 12 who is young enough that he will likely become president, and if I remember correctly, he was involved when Ricks dropped their programs."

    Two entirely different situations.

    Ricks College becoming a four-year school, meant BYU-Idaho becoming an FCS or FBS.

    Instead of being a feeder program to BYU, BYU-Idaho would have been competing directly with BYU for players, and the expense of jumping from a Junior College sports program to an FCS or FBS program would have been huge.

    BYU is doing fine financially and is much more competitive and a much more attractive television partner for ESPN than you're giving them credit for.

    BYU's history as an Independent is actually MUCH better than all but a couple of Utah's seasons in the WAC/MWC.

    Remind us how many wins Utah had from 1962 to 2012 versus teams like Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Wisconsin and Michigan State.

  • Seldom Seen Smith Orcutt, CA
    May 14, 2019 2:58 p.m.

    The football schedule has all the continuity and tradition of a K-Mart blue light specials. Annual incarnations of a cobbled together incoherent mess.

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2019 2:56 p.m.

    Holmoe is taking BYU football to the same place he took Cal football.

    That's too bad.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 2:54 p.m.

    BYU 1984............I wanna hear the accolades again.

  • Rusty Shackleford Layton, UT
    May 14, 2019 2:53 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00 said:

    "The LDS 1st presidency will make another bold, but realistic decision concerning sports at BYu-P, and many folks will be very upset . . . They BOLDLY cut sports in Idaho many years ago and Hawaii two years ago."

    I agree. I think in the future, the LDS church will get out of the business of intercollegiate athletics, and BYU will simply be an institution of education. With the honor code and the political winds as they are, their ability to remain competitive will continue to decline. Even if they get the best LDS athletes, I anticipate that in the near future, some of those P5 schools that boycotted BYU joining the Big 12, will start to refuse to even play them for the same reasons. That will make things even tougher on BYU.

    It may not happen under the present first presidency, but there is a member of the 12 who is young enough that he will likely become president, and if I remember correctly, he was involved when Ricks dropped their programs.

  • bemorefair , 00
    May 14, 2019 2:51 p.m.

    RE: @Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

    Oh, and #1iscoming

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 2:41 p.m.

    @ Steve 24/7,

    You claim "eyeballs on tv sets?" BYu's tv ratings are so bad that few broadcasts are even rated unless BYu is an underdog playing a P5 team and the point spread is high. BYU fans don't travel at all and have a fanbase that buys little NCAA licensed merchandise. And, T fans cannot/won't even purchase tickets at Utah games. Y fan boasting is not fact.

  • steve24/7 Sandy, UT
    May 14, 2019 2:29 p.m.

    "BYU is less attractive to a power conference as an independent than it would be by winning G5 conference championships, in Buck’s estimation."

    Then why didn't the Pac10 take us back in the '80's? Why haven't the P5's taken BSU or UCF more recently? Sorry, Jason, but your theory doesn't hold water.

    BYU is attractive to the big conferences thanks to eyeballs on TV sets and the BIS factor. But BYU is not attractive to big conferences thanks to our country's political climate and anti-religious sentiment.

    Sure, go back to the Mountain West with Commissioner Hair Thompson, get short-changed on more TV agreements, experience a lot less national exposure, and if we do get lucky enough to play in a NY6 bowl then split the money with 11 other schools so we actually end up with less money overall than we get now. And then there would be those wonderful trips to places like Wyoming and New Mexico every year. No thanks.

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    May 14, 2019 2:26 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 1:45 p.m.
    @ MRM,

    "I am talking about what BYU did in the old WAC era..."

    LaDell was talking about this initial creation of the WAC in 1962, as well as all of the chances Utah and BYU had to support Utah State's inclusion in the WAC since 1962.

    Utah was just as much opposed to Utah State's inclusion in the original creation of the WAC as BYU. Without Utah's support, the WAC never have been created.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    May 14, 2019 2:22 p.m.

    "Which MWC advocates can honestly say that the 2nd schedule is better than what BYU will be playing in 2019 as an Independent?"

    I can. The 2nd schedule provides an opportunity to win a conference championship and thus a possible opportunity to play in a NY6 bowl game. The 1st schedule provides zero, zip, nadda chance of a conference championship, and thus, no chance for a NY6 bowl game. BYU will never go to a NY6 game as an Indie. That is the stone-cold reality.

  • tblack7070 Idaho Falls, ID
    May 14, 2019 2:19 p.m.

    THis is an interesting article, it's always funny to hear ex players pop off about the program. "Back when i was on my mission" "If coach wouldve put me in we wouldve won state" etc. Keep living the glory days baby. As for byu's current players and coaches, just keep after the task at hand and remember winning solves a lot of problems.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    May 14, 2019 2:11 p.m.

    Sorry Utah-Hawaii Alum, but not every college administrator is as open-minded and free of bias like you.

  • PDX_CougarFan Milwaukie, OR
    May 14, 2019 2:09 p.m.

    FT - salt lake city, UT
    "The sooner BYU athletics becomes humble, the better for its fans."

    Not better for fans in Oregon. I was barely able to watch any BYU games when BYU was in the MWC, now I can see virtually every game and have been able to travel locally to watch them play. Of course, I would like to see BYU have more relevant November games, but BYU has to win games to make them relevant and there is no guarantee BYU would

  • talkinsports Gilbert, AZ
    May 14, 2019 2:02 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "Utah plays 9 PAC games/year."

    And many of those games are against cupcakes.

    "I'd love to permanently drop BYU and schedule a h-h series EVERY year vs our USU rivals. You can look at SEC teams like Alabama that only face 8 conference games and lots of cupcakes like BYU."

    Why?

    BYU has consistently been Utah-slc's best OOC opponent since the Utes joined the PAC 12.

    If, in your mind, BYU is such an easy "out", why not keep BYU, and drop Weber St, No Colo, or whichever Big Sky gimme you continue schedule, and play a home-and-home with Utah State?

    We all know the reasons; Utah fans simply don't have the courage to admit them...

    you're scared to death to play in Logan

    and

    U know that your series of lucky skin-of-your-teeth wins over BYU won't continue.

    btw, why has Utah stopped scheduling home-and-home games with Utah State and Weber State in basketball?

    Again, there's no legitimate reason except the Utes are scared to death to play in Logan or Ogden in basketball.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    May 14, 2019 2:00 p.m.

    Uh, BYU won at #6 Wisconsin just last year! I love the weak argument BYU has never beaten a ranked team in Independence. 100% false. Remember that Wisconsin all off season was touted as a playoff team, but BYU beat them at their own game by smash-mouthing them up the middle all day.

    BYU is capable to be really good. They just have to keep pushing through and getting consistent.

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    May 14, 2019 1:48 p.m.

    Let's be realistic.

    The CFP is so stacked in favor of the elite teams of the power conferences, that no non-elite team will ever play for a CFP national championship.

    And that includes Utah.

    The Utes, in their best season since joining the PAC 12, barely managed to win a division championship in the weakest PAC South season in history. The Utes were swept twice by the PAC 12 champions and were gashed by barely ranked Northwestern in their bowl.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 1:45 p.m.

    @ MRM,

    I am talking about what BYu did in the old WAC era, not the MWC configuration, your claim. In 1999..... was a BYu dominated conversation and Utah balked, sadly, never voted to exclude USU.

    BYu SOLELY EXCLUDED Utah State for inclusion in the WAC era. Read the DNews and SLTrib back then.

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    May 14, 2019 1:37 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "You boast of lil' BYu beating P5 teams in down years, not close to being ranked of course.......congrats! It has been well over two decades since the whY beat a ranked P5 team."

    WRONG!

    In 2009, BYU beat then #3 Oklahoma (finished #26/#29) , #18 Utah, and then #16 Oregon State (finished #27/#27).

    Each of those teams was MUCH better than the Big Least quad-champion Utah beat in the 2004 Fiesta Bowl.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 1:34 p.m.

    @ Northern Lights,

    Utah plays 9 PAC games/year. I agree with you.........I'd love to permanently drop BYU and schedule a h-h series EVERY year vs our USU rivals. You can look at SEC teams like Alabama that only face 8 conference games and lots of cupcakes like BYu. I am upset with Utah's OOC schedule BIG TIME!

  • justbereal , 00
    May 14, 2019 1:29 p.m.

    Rock made a slip when he said "BYU" has decided on independence. It's not BYU it's Holmoe along with some other admin influencers. We have not had strong AD's unfortunately and certainly not in the 21st Century. I don't know that they will give him the walking papers, but he's going on 60 so maybe he'll retire sometime soon.

    bemorefair & Striker made some good points regarding the weak comparison to USU. I do think there is some truth in what Buck said in that USU had nothing to go on and relatively speaking they have found success for their program from where they were.
    What is not accounted for is that the strength of the conference left which adds help to USU's success.

    What is true is that we are not moving forward at all and this includes being under two different head coaches. Holmoe says same things year in and out, but after this many seasons and different coaches you can't cover up the truth of the situation. The coaches Holmoe hired have tried to figure things out and it's proven more than they are capable. But this doesn't work. For independence to even be worth it you have to have a 1 or maybe 2 loss season continually and 8 seasons shows two HCs can't.

  • Ironman SANTA CLARA, UT
    May 14, 2019 1:29 p.m.

    Jason is right. UofU is another example. They rose to national prominence as a member of the MWC. They have barely made a splash in the diluted PAC 12, which is looking more like a Mid-Major conference.

    BYU will never play for another National Championship. UofU and USU will never play for a National Championship. The BCS is stacked against them.

  • Oh Really? Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2019 1:22 p.m.

    @Utah-Hawaii

    The reason the Aggies played more games in Provo than in Logan is simple: money. The Aggie’s stadium was a third the size and end zone patrons had to sit on concrete seats. Not wood, not metal, concrete. With snow. And nowhere to brush the snow off to but their neighbors’ seat. So, yeah, games were played in Provo and the Aggies made more money by traveling than staying home.

    Meanwhile, the Aggies have played 36 out of 112 meetings with Utah in Salt Lake City, and haven’t played them since 2015. (The last 2 in SLC). So there is that.

  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    May 14, 2019 1:21 p.m.

    Utah-Haw Alum

    "Utah plays teams like Fresno and San Jose because that is where they recruit heavily."

    Utah already plays one or two games in California every year, so if the Utes were really trying to play in recruiting rich territory, they'd be scheduling games in Texas and Florida, instead of Fresno and San Jose.

    And the Utes certainly don't need another game in RES every year "for recruiting purposes", so why not drop the FCS teams permanently and play Utah State home-and-home.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 1:13 p.m.

    @ Striker,

    You boast of lil' BYu beating P5 teams in down years, not close to being ranked of course.......congrats! It has been well over two decades since the whY beat a ranked P5 team. Enjoy!

    Can we please talk about 1984 WAC glory more often..........I'd appreciate your consideration.

  • MRM Layton, UT
    May 14, 2019 1:12 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "Utah voted USU in the old WAC and BYU blackballed USU."

    NOPE!

    Read 1999 DNews Article:

    Ladell Andersen hasn't forgiven BYU and Utah for what he believes they did to Utah State, and that isn't easy for a man who has loyalties to all three schools. He was the head basketball coach at USU and BYU and an assistant coach at Utah. He also was athletic director at Utah State for a decade. Andersen has deep affections for all three schools, but that doesn't mean he won't tell what he calls "the truth" about USU's failure to gain admittance to the Western Athletic Conference.

    "I have a hard time forgiving Utah and BYU for not getting USU in," he says from his home in St. George. "It disgusts me to talk about it. It's nothing against BYU and Utah. It's about the leadership. We're talking about a handful of people at BYU and Utah. "The old wound was opened again this week when the Aggies were turned down for inclusion in the WAC -- for the seventh time.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    May 14, 2019 1:05 p.m.

    bemorefair - , 00
    May 14, 2019 10:56 a.m.
    Ahhh, Jason. I know you mean well, but the USU Aggies just came off their best season EVER,

    Wrong. USU's best teams were in the 1950-60s while they ruled the Mountain West. BYU was the 3rd best team back then.

    BYU and Utah helped create the WAC, and forced USU into independence. Without a conference, USU lost its ability to recruit the best in the State and region, and it failed. BYU is currently seeing the same pattern as USU's dive into independence. During independence, USU had the toughest schedules in the state, but they were all away games (much like BYU's).

    Tom Holmoe is just proving that he can follow history, and drive an athletic program into the ground. Holmoe doesn't have the ability to build relationships like Notre Dame (the only successful independent), to play 50:50 with Power-5 conferences.

    One can pray all day long, but in real life sports/business, doing the same thing, over-and-over again and expecting a different result is a definition of "crazy."

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 12:59 p.m.

    I really like this article written by Brad Rock. Jason Buck gets it, 100%.

    There is no fix for BYu D1 sports. The LDS 1st presidency will make another bold, but realistic decision concerning sports at BYu-P, and many folks will be very upset. LDS Inc. is concerned about net profit. They BOLDLY cut sports in Idaho many years ago and Hawaii two years ago. I hope Provo Y fans can accept that truth.

  • Elkhorn Loveland, CO
    May 14, 2019 12:59 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "all Utes, Crimson Club board members, faculty and U administrators want to drop BYU and play USU."

    Totally bogus excuse.

    Utah doesn't have to drop BYU to play Utah State.

    The Utes could easily drop their annual FCS gimme or MWC bottom dweller to schedule Utah State, but the Utes are too scared to play in Logan anymore - in football or basketball.

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    May 14, 2019 12:55 p.m.

    Independence is the long-term road to nowhere. It was never proposed to be a long-term solution. Holmoe drove BYU into independence because he didn’t have the interpersonal skills to work with a group of peers, couldn't get along with many people in the MWC, and he had already driven BYU's football team into being the 3rd best team in the conference.

    Holmoe hasn't ever managed a successful program, and every program he has "managed" was far worse than when he began. He is doing the same with the major sports programs at BYU. He was a successful football player, but failed in every other management job he has held. He has no "vision" of success, and just expects everything to fall into place. He has failed.

    BYU needs a leader in the Athletic Department, not a football player living on his old-football glory.

    Fire Tom Holmoe. BYU needs to find an individual who has the ability to develop the interpersonal relationships to actually influence BYU's reemergence as a successful athletic program.

  • Elkhorn Loveland, CO
    May 14, 2019 12:54 p.m.

    BYU's 2019 Schedule

    Utah
    at Tennessee
    USC
    Washington
    at Toledo
    at South Florida
    Boise State
    at Utah State
    Liberty
    Idaho State
    at UMass
    at San Diego State

    If BYU was in the MWC, at least two of those P5's, and all but one of the other non-MWC opponents, would be replaced by MWC teams.

    So instead of the above, BYU's schedule would look more like this:

    Utah
    at Tennessee
    Idaho St
    at New Mexico
    Colorado St
    at Wyoming
    Boise State
    at Utah State
    Fresno St
    at Air Force
    UNLV
    at San Diego State

    Which MWC advocates can honestly say that the 2nd schedule is better than what BYU will be playing in 2019 as an Independent?

  • Cougar_Trojan_Spurs_Fan San Diego, CA
    May 14, 2019 12:44 p.m.

    So stoked to even have the opportunity (something the WAC or MWC wouldn't have offered) to see my Trojans travel TO Provo to play my Cougs this season. Good luck getting another G-5 team or conference to schedule that match-up.

    As for Buck, I personally don't care for his opinion, although i do agree that he has every right to express it.

    Times have changed. And, I do feel that BYU was next in line for a spot in the B12 conference a few years back until a few religiously bigoted squeaky wheels began to clamor and make threats of a boycott if BYU was allowed to join, based upon some false interpretations of the Honor Code. The B12 conf had to keep them out just to grease those squeaky wheels and shut them up. Soon enough, people will wake up and see that BYU is a school worth having in their conf and will extend an invite regardless of who is complaining about it.

    Fight on!!!

    Go Cougs!!!

  • front ranger Loveland, CO
    May 14, 2019 12:38 p.m.

    Arizona Ute

    "USU WAS indeed coming off of their best season ever. And they did that while in the MWC."

    Utah's best seasons, by far, occurred while the Utes were in the MWC, so why aren't you clamoring for the Utes to return to the MWC?

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    May 14, 2019 12:37 p.m.

    The numbers speak for themselves. The wins, the awards, the rankings and the attendance are just a few of those telling numbers. The sooner BYU athletics becomes humble, the better for its fans.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 14, 2019 12:34 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "BYU cannot qualify academically with any P5 conference. It is NOT political or religious bigotry whatsoever. The Y is an undergrad school, limited research, professors that must be LDS almost always, core curricula that is unacceptable, almost no research......etc....... BYU in academics only is just not even a thought to almost any D1 conference."

    Quoting Luke Skywalker:

    "Impressive... Every word in that sentence was wrong."

    BYU has the exact same Carnegie Research University ranking
    - Doctoral Universities – High research activity -

    as Baylor, TCU, and, until this year, Oklahoma St,

    which the PAC 10 was ready to accept with open arms if the PAC 10 / Big 12 South merger hadn't fallen apart.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 12:34 p.m.

    @ Sports Authority,

    WRONG SIR! Utah voted USU in the old WAC and BYu blackballed USU. Read the DNews or SLTrib back in that day.

    WRONG AGAIN! Utah is not afraid of ANY football team in Utah, not Utah State either, and in fact, almost all Utes, Crimson Club board members, faculty and U administrators wantt to drop BYU and play USU. But, we cannot. BYu is this "thing" that haunts us all.

    BYU depends on USU scheduling them. Do you thunk USU really likes BYu? They get a great check and pay BYu far less to play in Logan. That is the "gig."

    Utah plays teams like Fresno and San Jose because that is where they recruit heavily.

    WhY should Utah care about playing BYu?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2019 12:30 p.m.

    who am I

    isn't byu's average star recruiting ranking higher than usu's every/almost every year since byu went indy?

    Isn't that proof indy is better for byu, if thats your angle?

    Indy is clearly no p5, but neither is a horrible conference like the MWC.

  • holy moly Herrmian, UT
    May 14, 2019 12:24 p.m.

    Winning fixes everything

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    May 14, 2019 12:24 p.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "BYU will never play sports on a Sunday, fair enough, and all fine LDS I know that follow the tenets ardently, won't even go to the grocery store on the sabbath.......which I admire!

    But, it is TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE, wrongfully so and ignored, for the entire BYU football team to attend the San Diego Zoo on the sabbath when they played in a bowl game there a few years ago...........?"

    Let's just say that there's lots of "gray area" when it comes to Sabbath Day observance.

    When a BYU team is competing in an athletic event - football, basketball, volleyball, whatever - they're doing so as an official representative of BYU, and by extension, their sponsoring organization.

    That's a little different than the team visiting a zoo or going to a park, nuanced, but different.

    The Savior demonstrated the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law when he allowed his disciples to pick corn in a field on the Sabbath. Jewish law, didn't even allow walking through a corn field lest rubbing against the corn should create some sort of thrashing action.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 14, 2019 12:20 p.m.

    Want more evidence? Compare the recruiting classes of BYU and Utah State this year. (I'll bet to back up what I believe will happen!) Three in a row. Bowl invites. ESPN contract terms. etc.

    But continue to ignore these and follow AD Holmoe blindly! After all both he and coach Mendenhal said independence was unsustainable!

  • BYU_Husker Strasburg, CO
    May 14, 2019 12:17 p.m.

    I'll never understand the argument that the sub-par teams BYU plays in November is the reason to join a G5 conference. Somehow playing UNLV, New Mexico, and Laramie every year is better? I would like to hear a non-biased fan genuinely make an argument that USU's schedule is better than BYU's.

    Remember USU's two loses? BYU, Michigan State, Boise State were USU's only real competition last year, and they went 1-2 in those games. If BYU played in the MWC last year, they go 11-2 or 10-3. Sure, I guess BYU might have had a chance at a conference championship (USU didn't even do that), and a shot at the New Mexico Bowl, but how is that really better?

    BYU's ceiling is simply beating the superior competition they've been scheduling, not getting into and winning a G5 conference. Remember when BYU beat Wisky last year? If they actually beat UW, UTenn, Utah, BSU, and USC this year, they will be in the national spotlight and have a chance at a New Year's Six bowl. No one would care if they would have won a MWC title.

    Better recruiting, better development, better administration, and better coaching.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 14, 2019 12:15 p.m.

    @bemorefair - , 00

    BYU has a better shot at participating in the "next round of musical chairs" from a conference than they do from Independence.

    The P5 conferences like teams with wins. And lots of them. BYU, from a G5, would suddenly have access to the NY6 auto-bid, should they be the highest ranked G5 team (finishing a season raked at all would be a step in the right direction for BYU). Making a NY6 is certainly a step in the right direction. Boise made it with 2 losses one yr. from the G5.

    As an independent, BYU may not make a NY6 bowl if they went undefeated. Honestly. I would depend on the yr.

    Ask UCF if G5 has been good so far. They are CLEARLY the next team taken by the P5, when "musical chairs start" again. Really good football, hot recruiting bed, huge school, in football meca, etc.

    Houston is next. And then probably Boise. So, yep, G5 seems to be working for several teams.

    Pride cometh before the fall. Pride is all that is holding BYU back. Too proud to join a G5.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 12:10 p.m.

    @ 65Powertossytrapped,

    BYU cannot qualify academically with any P5 conference. It is NOT political or religious bigotry whatsoever. The Y is an undergrad school, limited research, professors that must be LDS almost always, core curricula that is unacceptable, almost no research......etc....... BYU in academics only is just not even a thought to almost any D1 conference.

  • Thidder MAPLETON, UT
    May 14, 2019 12:07 p.m.

    Byu is a home-wrecker when it comes to conferences. I can't think of any "low-life" conference in BYU's eyes that would allow BYU to join. They are in a unsolvable conundrum. It is either independence or dissolve football, the only choices left.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 14, 2019 12:08 p.m.

    CougarDuck

    "You hear people saying " wow look at the teams we get to play now", truth is most of them are away games."

    Have you even looked at BYU's schedule for 2019?

    How many SEC teams have EVER played in Logan or in RES?

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    May 14, 2019 12:05 p.m.

    @bemorefair - , 00

    I actually think you are helping make his point.

    USU WAS indeed coming off of their best season ever. And they did that while in the MWC.

    BYU's best seasons ever were in the WAC. And it's not even close to debatable.

    Independence has been a complete nightmare for BYU if you look at the measurables.

    No seasons where BYU finished ranked in the AP or BCS/CFP. Very few NFL picks, like 8 in 10 yrs. or something. (Utah had 8 in 2016 alone)

    BYU has yet to beat their rival Utah since going Indy. And has now lost, for the 1st time in 44 yrs, to USU in back to back seasons.

    BYU has yet to beat a PAC12 team with a winning record in Indy.

    BYU has had a couple games where they didn't cross the 50 and were shutout on national TV.

    BYU lost 9 games in 2017 and 6 games in 2018, totaling 15 losses in 2 seasons.

    BYU literally has zero access to the CFP, and very little access, if any, to a NY6 bowl. BYU would have to go undefeated to make a NY6 game and even then, it isn't guaranteed.

    USU finished ranked in every poll except the CFP Poll in 2018. How about BYU?

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    May 14, 2019 12:04 p.m.

    U-H Alum

    "I so hope that Utah State drops BYU on all schedules. It was truly CRIMINAL what they did.........forcing USU into independence decades ago by not allowing them to join the old WAC."

    Utah was just as much responsible for excluding Utah State from the WAC as BYU.

    Unlike Utah, however, BYU isn't afraid to play the Aggies in Logan, in any sport.

    Utah hasn't scheduled a single road game in football or basketball against Utah State since 2011.

    The Utes would rather play MWC bottom dwellers like San Jose St and Fresno St.

  • IQ92 hi, UT
    May 14, 2019 11:56 a.m.

    If BYU had the same mission as USU, I would agree with Buck.

    Personally, I feel bringing in as many new schools as possible to visit BYU each season is more consistent with BYU's mission. The same goes for visiting new schools across the nation.

    I may be in the minority, but I would be happy to never play Utah, USU, and Wyoming again. I trust those schools would prefer to replace us, too. If not, I don't wonder why.

  • SomeClarityPlease Salt Lake City, UT
    May 14, 2019 11:56 a.m.

    Sorry Jason, but from a fan perspective, I still like the new arrangement better than the old one. It got boring playing the same teams every year (Colorado St., UTEP, New Mexico, Wyoming, etc) that did not command very much respect. I hear the money is real nice in the P-5 conferences, but other than that, I think I am still more enjoying how things are currently and might even prefer that over being in a P-5 conference playing the same teams over and over. The year or decade that BYU manages to win (or lose once) in their first eight games, they may be grateful for an easy November to coast into a playoff.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 11:55 a.m.

    BYu will never play sports on a Sunday, fair enough, and all fine LDS I know that follow the tenets ardently, won't even go to the grocery store on the sabbath.......which I admire!

    But, it is TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE, wrongfully so and ignored, for the entire BYU football team to attend the San Diego Zoo on the sabbath when they played in a bowl game there a few years ago...........?

    Hey BYu........do y'all thunk folks don't pay attention???????????

  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    May 14, 2019 11:49 a.m.

    “Just watch the rise of Utah State’s program in a conference and our decline in independence, and now we’re battling for our lives, for relevance, against Utah State,” says the former Outland Trophy winner.”

    How many P5’s has Utah State played since 2011?

    How many of Utah State’s games were “televised” on Facebook in 2018?

    How much television revenue does Utah State receive?

    When was the last time Utah State beat Texas, Nebraska, Mich St, Wisconsin, Miss St, Ole Miss, or Oklahoma.

    Which MWC affiliated bowls has Utah St played, that BYU hasn’t since 2011?

    Has Utah St ever played more than 2 P5’s in any season?

    There’s no question that the Aggies had a better 2018 season than BYU, but what upside does Utah St have that BYU can’t match or exceed?

    Bottom line:

    All of BYU’s Independent “struggles” can be solved simply by winning.

  • mnsave Rigby, ID
    May 14, 2019 11:45 a.m.

    Does anything positive come from Buck. He was featured on BYUtv a few years ago and it was mostly negative, poor me stuff. Not many people from St. Anthony remember him having it as bad as he says it was.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    May 14, 2019 11:38 a.m.

    "His point is that G5 teams like Boise State, Western Michigan and even Utah State can entertain hopes of reaching a New Year’s Six bowl game by dominating their conferences."

    Bingo. I've been saying this for the last 5 years. BYU will never be invited to a P-5 Conference for reasons more political than rational. It's best course is to be in a G-5 conference - win the conference - be the highest ranked G-5 conference champion - play in NY-6 game - enjoy the recruiting success that will follow.

    This model is nothing more than the old WAC model that brought BYU so much success. It is working for BSU and USU right now. It can work for BYU as well. The P-5 dream is just that - a dream. Kick the Indie model to the curb as soon as possible.

  • Striker Omaha, NE
    May 14, 2019 11:34 a.m.

    I'd much rather see this team play on ESPN than Facebook! Are you kidding me by comparing BYU to some tiny school in the frozen tundra? No comparison at all!

    BYU is fine where they are. It took Notre Dame awhile to get really good.

    Plus, BYU has beaten the likes of Texas, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Mississippi, all on the road. Great for the huge fan base everywhere!

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 11:32 a.m.

    I have a select few ardent BYU fan friends who are also consummate LDS gentlemen that live the tenets 100%. I so love and admire them!

    Any football fan wouldn't like BYu's lopsided schedule........good teams early on mostly away games and a beyond horrific November home slate every darn year as everyone else is fighting important conference battles. Honestly, BYu made this bed...........it simply doesn't sell folks.

  • Cougalum St. George, UT
    May 14, 2019 11:17 a.m.

    Truth, nothing but the truth. Tom Holmoe, are you listening? Do we really have to wait until the P5 conferences have all passed us over to then look for a gutted G5 conference to take us? After the new TV contracts have been signed, just barely surviving G5 conferences may determine that they must replace their members who have been selected to a P5. But that will require us to win 7-8 games per regular season. Perhaps we can get lucky otherwise it’s the Big Sky if they will have us.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 11:01 a.m.

    I so hope that Utah State drops BYU on all schedules. It was truly CRIMINAL what they did.........forcing USU into independence decades ago by not allowing them to join the old WAC. Then, they(BYu) demanded 2-for-1 football contracts until USU said "no way ever again" three years ago. The PAC-12 U of U finds itself in a far worse quandary these day. They are FORCED to play BYu due to the demands of the Utah State Legislature. We ALL know who owns that governing body. It is very unfortunate today.

  • Grandpa Zucc Sandy, UT
    May 14, 2019 11:00 a.m.

    Okay, I agree with you about being in a conference, Jason. But is the Mountain West the right one for the cougs?

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    May 14, 2019 10:59 a.m.

    When you have an absolute managerial failure running the program as AD, what do you expect?
    Buck, unlike many others, seems to understand the situation, and that it isn't going to change for the better with the current status.

    The "organization" is incapable of swallowing its pride and even attempting to get back into a G5 conference to achieve the status quo ante. I love it!

  • Pugman Tremonton, UT
    May 14, 2019 10:58 a.m.

    He's spot on

  • bemorefair , 00
    May 14, 2019 10:56 a.m.

    Ahhh, Jason. I know you mean well, but the USU Aggies just came off their best season EVER, with the best offensive coaches they will ever have (and bolted immediately for more money and greener pastures), and what was their reward?

    The New Mexico Bowl against Texas? Haha, no. That would be North Texas something or other. That's not a ringing endorsement of going back to the WAC 2.0

    Reminds me of the old saying, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

    If BYU went back to the WAC, they could immediately get to 11-2 again. But is that the right path? I guess if all you care about are wins against lower G5 teams, sure. But BYU has their eyes set on being included the next round of musical chairs in approximately 5-6 years. So, until then, we go it alone. If our pioneer ancestors could do it, we certainly can do it with the help of ESPN and ABC.

  • ekute Layton, UT
    May 14, 2019 10:50 a.m.

    P5 has always been a pipe dream...and more so today. The best that they can do is hope for another shift, at which time they would be wise to approach the G5, hat in hand, and make concessions.

  • CougarDuck Cottage Grove, OR
    May 14, 2019 10:47 a.m.

    I really enjoyed watching Jason Buck play football. I Have not always agreed with him over the years but I have to say I do agree with him on this. You hear people saying " wow look at the teams we get to play now", truth is most of them are away games. Then you come to the end of the season with nothing to play for and nobody to play. Sure we play games but reality is they are not exciting and we have now moved to their level at times and have to fight to win some of those games.

    I am proud to be a Cougar and will follow them no matter whether they are in a conference or not but it would be nice to have something to play for at the end of the season.

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    May 14, 2019 10:46 a.m.

    "'Just watch the rise of Utah State’s program in a conference and our decline in independence, and now we’re battling for our lives, for relevance, against Utah State,' says the former Outland Trophy winner."

    Right on, Jason!

    Independence ripped my heart out, too! I sold off my season tickets, hung my head in shame at the arrogance of the once note-worthy BYU football program!

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    May 14, 2019 10:44 a.m.

    I vehemently agree with Jason Buck!!!!! However, BYU cannot qualify for any P5 conference due to academics/academic freedom, core curricula and their unwillingness to compete in conference play on Sunday. BYU expects, demands, MANY consolations. Also, I know of no G5 D1 conference that will consider BYU as of today. The MWC is not even a possibility.