Supreme Court to take up LGBT job discrimination cases

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  • Utefan60 , 00
    April 29, 2019 9:51 a.m.

    RedShirtUofU - Andoria, UT, you said the following: "Actually Jesus did set the standard for marriage and sexual relations. He said that a Man is not complete without a Woman, and that marriage is only between a man and a woman."

    Can you show us anywhere in any Bible that Jesus ever mentioned homosexuality? Anywhere he said what you said he said?

    You can not. What you said is an untruth by those who don't seem to read their own scriptures.

    Jesus never once mentioned what you just said. You can not prove if Jesus was ever married can you?

    As for discriminations supposedly by the LBGTQ community, lets talk. If they violated the secular laws under which they operate, they should be taken to task. Period! If a radical right person violates others secular rights they also should be taken to task. Period!

    In the secular world under which this country was founded, the freedom of religion issue can not ever be used to discriminate, in either direction.

    As for Elder Oaks' proclamations. I have always asked the same question of him. Elder Oaks, can you name one religious freedom that you have lost? Just one?

    He has lost none of his religious freedoms. None.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 25, 2019 1:55 p.m.

    @Rick;

    How about we just don't allow discrimination by businesses of any size? That is fair to all of them.

    @IJ;

    "Heterosexual is easy enough to deal with; keep it to yourself."
    - No talk of your spouse.
    - No talk of your kids.
    - No talk of your family.
    - No photos on your desk, etc.
    - That's what you're asking of gay people.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    April 25, 2019 1:53 p.m.

    @lindaj72;

    There are also those that believe your god is entirely fictional. Whatever you think he said, all you have is supposition and superstition.

    @WeThePeople;

    The so-called "christian" crowd has abandoned all morality - as evidenced by their support of Trump.

    @RiDal;

    "Just a reality check, here:
    While people may have a right to be any way they want to be; no one has a right to force other people to go along with and accommodate their delusions."

    -- "God" being the greatest 'delusion' of them all; you're right, we don't need to support your superstitious delusions.

    @TheRealDJT;

    Good spin on the word 'discrimination'. But IMO, bigotry is one of the greatest "immoralities" out there. BTW; there are MANY who believe inter-racial marriage is "immoral", should we allow discrimination against mixed-race couples? After all, "religious freedom", right?

    @lost;

    Why does your god need spokespeople? Isn't he able to speak for himself?

    @Red;

    You support Christians discriminating against LGBT people, why shouldn't the reverse be permissible too? Or are you just another hypocrite (also condemned in the bible)?

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    April 23, 2019 8:25 a.m.

    @RiDal wrote,

    "While people may have a right to be any way they want to be; no one has a right to force other people to go along with and accommodate their delusions. "

    Many, many people of many different religions consider people who belong to different religions as "deluded".
    I don't think a non-LDS employer has a right to fire a Mormon employee, no matter what he thinks of that employee's religion. Or vice-versa. Do you?

    If the person can do the job, their personal beliefs are not your business, whether those beliefs concern religion or gender identity.

  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    April 23, 2019 7:58 a.m.

    I believe that if I have a right, you have a right. But there are always going to be sticky situations. Homosexual is easy enough to deal with; keep it to yourself. Trans is a whole different ball of wax. The commentor who brought up Trans in the military - I was in the Navy for 20 years and I don't see how this possibly works. Berthings on ships is tight and they can't possibly have areas for different classes of sexual preferences. I do not believe Trans should be given elective surgery on Uncle Sam's dime. If you have a business that services the public, you service the public; but you don't have to make any special concessions. Elective rights are not provided for. Example: I don't believe birth control is a health issue. You did the adult thing to get yourself in the way, you deal with it. Your employer is not responsible for your private acts.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    April 23, 2019 7:44 a.m.

    Title IX scholarships for women are under threat.

    The Democratic party has expended a lot of political capital to make the point that Kavanaugh is going to rule against women. Well, let's see how he will rule on this one. The Democrats are going to lose credibility if he rules that men cannot compete against women for scholarships and that men cannot enter into private areas that are reserved for women.

  • Nichol Draper West Jordan, UT
    April 23, 2019 5:59 a.m.

    Two wrongs don't make a right. So in the case of the sky diver, talking to a client who is concerned about being strapped to an individual about sexual orientation would make many people uncomfortable. Why talk about sex at all in that situation -- the discussion should have been about safety. I don't think that case is about orientation. The case about embezzlement, it sounds like a smoke screen, who cares about orientation when they are stealing from the till? As for the mortuary, businesses since the ACA are required to offer insurance. Transitional surgery is very expensive and probably increased the premiums by large amounts. Most people couldn't care less about what's someone's orientation is, but each of these cases involve a business that would loose money. I suspect that the first two individuals will loose as they are using their orientation as an excuse for not fulfilling a normal job responsibility. I suspect in the mortuary case the business owner will loose because the added expense is a direct result of their orientation and not that they are not fulfilling their job responsibilities. But common sense doesn't always rule in our courts. So who knows?

  • Rick for Truth Provo, UT
    April 22, 2019 8:45 p.m.

    In my opinion Privately owned business, especially smaller businesses should be allowed to require employees to uphold standards and values they believe in. Hair styles, dress standards, health-smoking codes, and even religious objections such as prayer breaks, and openly displays of LGBTQ employees . They should be up front and open about all employee standards before employment is offered. Larger publicly owned and operated businesses might not be entitled to religious objections, we shall see how the SCOTUS deals with this hot potato.

  • 871256 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2019 8:00 p.m.

    Members of the Church:
    Should someone be fired based on their religion? No. Neither should someone be fired because of their gender identity. It’s simple.

    I lean conservative, and am a member of the Church, and the church has been very clear about this. Watch the religious freedom videos. Read recent statements, especially from Pres. Oaks.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2019 7:19 p.m.

    @worf
    None of these cases are about interviews but as for when it comes up, same-sex marriage is legal and it's not uncommon for people at work to talk about a spouse, a fiancee, or a boyfriend/girlfriend in some situations at least socially outside of work.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    April 22, 2019 5:37 p.m.

    Why would gender orientation even come up in an interview?

  • lindaj72 SF, CA
    April 22, 2019 4:15 p.m.

    fatheroffour - Wow, I am not sure how you got firing people because they are gay from my statement. If I wrote it so that you believe that I apologize. I am only saying that there are some who want to have it their way or the highway. I believe we have agency and we also have a responsibility when using our agency to not step on the toes (or rights) of others.) . I believe in rights for all - I have a theatre background and I have had friends from just about every belief and life style.

  • EightOhOne St. George, UT
    April 22, 2019 3:51 p.m.

    WeThePeople - Sandy, UT

    Not sure why you're having a difficult time understanding what "consenting adults" means

  • RedShirtUofU Andoria, UT
    April 22, 2019 2:51 p.m.

    To "Utefan60" what about those in the LGBTQ+ community that discriminate against Christians. Do they need to be reprimanded also?

    Remember when the Coffee shop kicked out the Christian group that was there to have a cup of coffee? How about the religious people that have been denied services because of their Christian beliefs by LGBTQ+ people?

    Actually Jesus did set the standard for marriage and sexual relations. He said that a Man is not complete without a Woman, and that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    April 22, 2019 2:19 p.m.

    employee who was fired after disclosing that HE was transitioning from male to surgically and hormonally altered male

    there, I fixed it

    Congress could change civil rights law to specifically include LGBT people, but they haven’t including the desperate days when BO was in the WH.

    "Neither government agencies nor the courts have authority to rewrite federal law by replacing 'sex' with 'gender identity,'"

    Cougfan60
    Shot down many times? Not so. Argued against, perhaps, but not shot down.

    Jesus may not have directly in the NT, but He did through Moses in the Old Testament, and through Paul in the NT.

    ACLU
    Fired – or prosecuted, like a baker, florist, or photographer? How about a church that does not recognize gay unions – oops, my bad, I forgot that’s the part of the 1st amendment the ACLU seems to fight against, rather than for – religious liberty.

    Fatheroffour
    Where did Linda say anything about being fired? She did talk about how people exercised their agency, NOT about what they decided concerning their orientation. There is a difference between being and doing.

  • TheRealDJT Sandy, UT
    April 22, 2019 12:48 p.m.

    Probably a good time to reflect on the real definition of "discrimination".
    Racial discrimination was wrong.
    But we actually "discriminate" every day: We "discriminate" against correct and incorrect, successful and unsuccessful, true and false, legal and illegal, harmful and beneficial, etc, etc, etc....
    "Discrimination" is the essence of "rational thought". Not all discrimination is automatically bad.
    "Immorality" is the class of things that it is good to "discriminate against".

    If we remove a person's right to discriminate against what he considers moral and immoral, then there is really no freedom of religion. The right includes not only the internal belief, but also **the free exercise thereof. **

    And to preempt the arguments based on an invalid attempt at an analogy to racial civil rights: There may have been racists within religions, but no significant religion ever taught that it was immoral to "be Black". Racists were always going directly against the teachings of every significant religion.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    April 22, 2019 12:39 p.m.

    Just a reality check, here:
    While people may have a right to be any way they want to be; no one has a right to force other people to go along with and accommodate their delusions. There is no scientific data that confirms transgenderism is anything other than a delusion: an belief in something that is demonstrably inaccurate.
    For confirmation of this, one may google the studies on "limb dysphoria", in which some people believe their arm or leg does not "belong to them". Some doctors have gone so far as to amputate the dysphoric limb in an attempt to cure the patient. Of course it never does because dysphoria are just symptoms of a deeper underlying psychological disorder.
    Now consider why "gender dysphoria" would be any different than "limb dysphoria". Similarly, the surgical option has an incredibly low success rate. Yet we are required to consider this a "right" and ignore the delusional nature, only because modern liberals include it in their sacred class of "sexually-related aberrations". ...political correctness.

  • FatherOfFour WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    April 22, 2019 11:59 a.m.

    @lindaj72 - SF, CA

    So if I understand you correctly, according to your religion you should be fired from your job if you are gay? Any other sins you should be fired from your job for? What about Episcopalians or Presbyterians who may not believe the same as you? Should they be fired too?

  • WeThePeople Sandy, UT
    April 22, 2019 11:56 a.m.

    The pro-LGBTQ-whatever crowd have abandoned all morality.

    They say that instead of traditional family values, "consenting adults" should be free to do whatever they want. So much for the Law of Chastity.

    And are children "consenting adults"? Livestock?

    I can't believe I'm continually asked to respect and support this farce.

    I hope Trump's Supreme Court will lead our country back to sanity.

  • lindaj72 SF, CA
    April 22, 2019 11:19 a.m.

    I believe we have our agency and should have the right to exercise that agency. Unfortunately, on both sides of any argument there are those that only want their views recognized. And just for the record, our Savior as recorded in the NT did not mention homosexual marriage because He plainly said (paraphrased) that marriage is between a man and woman and is ordained by God. His message is implied. With that said, there are those who believe that the God of the OT is the premortal Christ, and there He made it clear on that subject. Just saying.

  • ACLU of Utah Salt Lake City, UT
    April 22, 2019 11:20 a.m.

    Most people in this country recognize that it’s both wrong and unlawful to fire someone for being LGBTQ, and many states, including Utah, expressly prohibit this kind of discrimination. Most people would be shocked if the Supreme Court ruled that, under federal law... businesses can fire workers just for being transgender, gay, lesbian or bisexual. But that’s exactly what the Trump Administration is trying to achieve through arguments in court and executive agency action.
    Everyone needs a way to support themselves and their family. Freedom from discrimination is an essential part of making that a reality. No one should have to live in fear that they can be fired just because of who they are. - ACLU of Utah

  • Biscuit , 00
    April 22, 2019 10:24 a.m.

    I'm old and could care less about sex. So what's my sexual orientation?
    Gosh, I wonder if I'm being discriminated against? lol

  • Utefan60 , 00
    April 22, 2019 10:17 a.m.

    Discrimiantion of any kind by someone who professes to be religious is an uncovering of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Religious Freedom? Hardly.

    Those who attack and discriminate against anyone in the LBGTQ community needs to be reprimanded, and hopefully leagally challanged.

    This area of civil rights needs to be addressed as harshly as racial discrimination was earlier. LBGTQ people are fired without cause thousands of times. It is sickening. Many communities and States have put in laws that stop this unrighteous behavior.

    The sad part is Trump who never served in the military by using fake excuses now wants to ban transgender service members. These are people who are bravely serving their country. That is true discrimination. Sad how the GOP and Trump have chosen not to represent all citizens.

    And to Bloodhood. Those arguments you posted have been shot down so many times. It makes you look like you do not have an understanding of what you are talking about. Please note that Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality in the Bible. Not even once. Marriage in the Bible is not at all like what it is today. Polygamy ring a bell?

  • Bloodhound Provo, UT
    April 22, 2019 9:51 a.m.

    Sexual orientation is a pretty broad term. If the Court rules in favor of "sexual orientation" being a protected class, will it eventually be broadened to include individuals that say they are interested in forms of sex that are not now included in the LBGTQ grouping? Will those interested in polyamorous relationships be included? Will schools have to hire and keep teachers who want to have affairs with underage students? As society moves away from Biblical definitions of family and sexuality, will we end up where truly anything goes?