What should teachers be paid? Envision Utah to convene group to take hard look at teacher pay

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  • RedShirtUofU Andoria, UT
    April 22, 2019 7:33 a.m.

    To "Lifelong Republican" you don't have to work in the trenches to see that 40 years ago you had 1 teacher doing the same job that it now takes 1 teacher plus 1 teaching assistant plus help from 3 specialists to do. In elementary school they are not (or should not) be teaching much of anything that is very different from what was taught 40 years ago. So why is it that it takes more staff to teach the same number of kids the same subjects?

  • Lifelong Republican Orem, UT
    April 20, 2019 12:01 a.m.

    Red shirt,

    $15/hr assistant doesn't add up to $30,000 that would be needed to pay 3 teacher $10,000 each.

    This is the problem with education in Utah. Everybody thinks they are an expert but in reality have no clue what it is like to be in the trenches.

  • RedShirtUofU Andoria, UT
    April 19, 2019 7:14 a.m.

    To "thots" but the problem with the ARL system is that few schools want to sponsor somebody.

    You did hit onto one of the big problems, and that is turnover. If you look at the polls and studies where they examine why teachers quit after the first few years the biggest problem is support of the teachers by the veteran teachers and administration. You also have the problem of parents not supporting them and other classroom related issues, but the biggest issue is the support.

    As I have already pointed out, we have the money to pay teachers more. The problem is that a lot of it is wasted on administration, specialists, and helpers. If 3 teachers share an assistant that is paid $15/hr. If you eliminate that one assistant you could bump up those teacher salaries by $10,000 each.

  • thots TOOELE, UT
    April 18, 2019 10:37 p.m.

    To "RedShirtCalTech", yes, loosening the rules on the licensing process would probably get a few more people into teaching jobs.

    However, 1) there are already Alternate Route to Licensure (ARL) programs that are set up to do exactly what you suggest, 2) there simply aren't that many people lining up to become teachers after having had another career, and 3) those who do usually don't stay in the classroom for very long, so that just means that there are that many more open teaching positions to fill the next year.

    We need to attract more young people into the profession who plan to stick with it for 30+ years. I still think that to do so, we need to increase teacher pay. There may be other things that can also be done, but higher pay is the one that I think will make the biggest (and quickest) difference.

  • MrLogic Brigham City, UT
    April 18, 2019 2:14 p.m.

    The problem with the "they only work part of the year" argument is that there is no option given to teachers to work the rest of the year. I would have taken that in a heartbeat. But you can't make your normal wage in the summer. I worked as a carpenter's assistant, mowing lawns, and at a treatment center - but nobody would pay me a real salary for the 2 1/2 months I was open in the summer. I wouldn't expect them to.

    Give me a full wage and let me teach a full year. I'm good with that! But don't pretend that I would somehow be able to earn a fair wage for a person with a Master's degree for temporary work. Some teachers make up for that by doing something year-round, like construction. Expecting that of professionals is foolish. You either get overworked professionals or people who don't care enough to commit fully to the job.

    I might add that it's really quite awkward to be working a menial job and have your high school students come through the line.

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    April 18, 2019 11:00 a.m.

    To "thots" part of the problem is the licensing process and requirements that a person has to jump through to become a teacher.

    Lets look at how this works. If you were a corporate trainer for 30 years, then decided that you wanted to become a teacher, you would have to go through a program where you have to take many classes from a local university (at your own expense) then get licensed or you would have to find a school to sponsor you through the ALP system. If they are capable of being a teacher, why make it so difficult to get the job.

    If you made it easier for a person who has experience in a subject to become a teacher you could more easily fill those teaching spots.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    April 18, 2019 9:25 a.m.

    The solution...or at least an improvement...is obvious:
    Full time work for full time pay.
    Very few people who only work 3/4 time can expect a good salary.
    Expand schools to year-round. Stagger the kids in "quarters" as necessary. Then make teaching a full--time year-round profession, just like almost every job where people get "a living wage".

    Who opposes this ?!

  • shirl Reno, NV
    April 18, 2019 7:40 a.m.

    My daughter teaches in Utah. I've seen her work hard everyday, agonize over money, but It isn't just the money that is a problem. I have observed that school boards show no respect for teachers. Boards are afraid of being sued by parents of unruly kids and discrimination of any kind. Boards have their hands tied by potential litigation so they practice defensive education. That is they play not to lose; they cannot play to win--they would be sued. This helplessness flows down into classrooms...teachers are afraid to discipline, raise their voices or even stop a child from hitting other children. Teachers know they get no support from their leaders. Angst follows, then despair then burnout, then leaving. Utah has depended on a huge supply of young teachers to fill in the burnout. Young people are too smart to fall for this--they avoid teaching jobs. ssj.

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    April 17, 2019 11:18 p.m.

    I'll keep it simple.

    Starting teacher in pay in Utah should be 50K. COLA increases of at least 2% per year.

    Insurance plans and pension plans restored to what they were in 2000.

  • thots TOOELE, UT
    April 17, 2019 6:27 p.m.

    Can we get past arguing over what teachers "deserve" to get paid? That is an argument of opinions, so no one is ever convinced about anything.

    Instead, let's focus on why this issue is deemed worth of these newspaper articles year after year: there is a teacher shortage, which is becoming worse each year. Utah has an increasing population, so more teachers are needed each year. However, there are more teachers retiring than there are college students who are entering into the teaching profession. This is making it harder and harder for principals to fill the teaching positions that open up each year.

    We need to have a surplus of teachers so that principals can hire the best applicants. Instead, we make it so that they have to settle for any warm body who is willing to take the job! This is a systematic failure, and our kids pay the price.

    The free market forces of supply and demand insist that if we want to have enough teachers, we need to pay more. And if we want to have a choice in the quality of those teachers, then we need to increase pay significantly.

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    April 17, 2019 3:44 p.m.

    To "JakeShewmake" I never said it was in Washington County.

    I know you don't believe me, but it is true. The elementary school where I went has roughly the same number of students now that it did 40 years ago. The school covered some of the affluent areas of the city, so you bet that the parents cared about the kids learning. You don't get new doctors and lawyers from schools that were concerned about meeting the minimums.

    The problem is that the schools don't keep staffing records. You can do the same experiment. Find somebody who went to an elementary in an older more established part of a suburb about 30 years ago or more. Ask them how big the school was then and the number of staff members that were there. Now you can go to that school's web site and see the names and faces and job titles of all of the staff at that school.

    Go and do that, and tell me how much things have changed. Tell us what you find out.

  • JakeShewmake St. George, UT
    April 17, 2019 11:50 a.m.

    Redshirt- I have to question the truthfulness of that statement. There is no elementary school in Washington County that has the staff you describe. Also, you know specialists travel to multiple schools. No student population is the same as it was 40 years ago. Forty years ago not many people actually cared if real deep learning was taking place because the skills to be a successful blue collar worker were minimal. You either did learn or you didn't and if you didn't it was your fault or your family’s fault. No intervention or extension learning required. Easy. We don't accept that anymore. We ensure everyone is learning and we provide what it takes to get there or else society as a whole suffers in the long run. Name the school and I will go there and report the real staffing numbers. The learning expectations and the rigor that elementary school kids are expected to learn has increased exponentially. When you were in kindergarten it was coloring books, milk and cookies. It isn't that anymore. The info you learned in college is now 9th grade material. Now, please stop this the lack of reality, irrational attack on public ed. in Utah. It is simply does not make sense.

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    April 17, 2019 7:40 a.m.

    To "JakeShewmake" ok, lets make this entirely about the Utah school system.

    Lets take a look at the waste that goes on in public education.

    The elementary school that I attended 40 years ago currently serves about the same number of students from the same socioeconomic background that they did when I was there.

    That school has the same number of teachers who have a class of their own. When I was there there was 3 teachers 1st through 6th, 2 kindergarten teachers, a librarian, 1 Secretary, the Principal, 1 head janitor, 2 special ed teachers, and a handful of lunch ladies. Now that same school, teaching the same number of kids has 3 teacher 1st through 6th, 2 kindergarten teachers, a librarian, computer specialist, 8 Teacher Assistants, 4 Teacher Prep specialists, 2 additional specialists, 5 special ed teachers, and 5 office assistants.

    The staff had doubled for the same number of kids. If the system is so efficient, why do we need almost double the staff to teach the same number of kids?

    As I stated before, get rid of the waste, then we can talk.

    To "Confused" they pay for extra effort, not for being inefficient at your job so you have to work overtime.

  • libs think what??? Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2019 6:57 p.m.

    I have no problem with paying teachers at least the median household income, which is around $64k-65k.

    Chris B,
    your comment is very insulting to those who choose to be a stay at home mom. To say they don't work is ludicrous. I have 3 kids and we have lived off my single income quite well. We were a "sink" - Single Income Numerous Kids. My wife always worked, though just not for money

  • Bob Tanner Price, UT
    April 16, 2019 4:23 p.m.

    One of the biggest problems with Utah school districts (at least where I live) is the district waste is in the administration level and not in the teaching level. Teachers have to work all day and then spend too much of their time keeping records let alone planning lessons on top of that. Most teachers that I know go to school during the summer break to further their education which in turn will move them up on the pay scale. Having school year around has never worked. The bottom line is we need to give our teachers an incentive to stay in education. Money is just one option...there might be other ways to keep them in education as well. Just some thoughts from a teacher of 25 years.

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    April 16, 2019 4:20 p.m.

    It is called capitalism...

    If you increase teachers pay where it is competitive, then the people with good skills will be teachers, while the less than stellar teachers will be forced out because they do not demonstrate being a good teacher.

    It is like in Computer Programming, great programmers can work anywhere, they demand high salaries, because they have proven their skills, the ones that are not that good are either going into the mom and pops shops or they find another field.

    Having that competitive field go will eventually drive out the bad teachers because there is someone better to take their spot.

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    April 16, 2019 4:16 p.m.

    Redshirt --
    I calling you on this.... it is nothing more than nonsense.

    "To "dogbreath " but who gives her all of that homework to correct?
    Standards of teachings gives her that homework, in order for a student to show competency they must do some type of paperwork (because LEA's are not developing web apps at this point) to hand in. The teacher must correct the papers in order to score said competency levels.
    Why should taxpayers pay your wife more because she give herself more work to do?
    Actually Redshirt, the taxpayer does not get paid for work done at home, they are on contract for 180 days, 6-8 hrs a day.... They get NOTHING more than that.
    Any other employer would fire her for being so inefficient."
    Wrong... Any employer would pay her for the extra effort. In fact, employers (especially in IT) do pay for their time because of time constraints on projects. Teachers have time constraints as well (submitting grades).
    You complain about teachers only working 6 hrs a day, 180 days.. That time is students backsides in the seat, not lesson plan time, grading papers, entering scores into the district systems, PT conferences, Parent conferences, school meetings, etc.

  • JakeShewmake St. George, UT
    April 16, 2019 4:11 p.m.

    Red shirt. Here we go again. All your ludicrous claims about waste in the system. This not Washington D.C. Please stop spreading misinformation about things you have no idea about. Your posts regarding every public education related artifice are tried and old and your lies feed the conservatives desire to gut public education. Utah does more with less than any other state and you know it. But more with less does not get kids a world class education and you know that too. Your personal vendetta against public education is obvious. If you have specific examples of waste you personally know about and the documents to back it up then prove it, otherwise stop blabbing about waste. For, example the Utah Taxpayers Association awarded Washington County School District with an award for the most cost effective building construction in the state. Why don't you ever mention that? Also, just because a school district doesn't use their funds the way one person thinks they should be used doesn't mean it is waste--more likely it means that person knows nothing about educating children. Stop using waste as an excuse for under funding. If it is true, prove it or stop spouting off about.

  • jane 66 Alameda, CA
    April 16, 2019 4:09 p.m.

    The fact that women dominate the teaching field (after all, anything to do with children is women's work and therefore should be done for free, right?) has everything to do with the rude and unfair comments made by those who think teachers already make too much money. Some of these comments would never be made about men in any field. Teachers have worked hard to earn college degrees and received special training in how to teach. Teaching is hard work and requires more time than the regular school day for grading and preparation. No one is going into teaching anymore because of low pay and lack of respect and we are all going to pay the price for that. Whether you think teachers deserve to be paid a living wage or not, you need future generations to be well educated so they can be future doctors and nurses and police officers and military officers and pilots, etc. etc. Who loses if teachers lose? All of us.

  • Red Smith , 00
    April 16, 2019 2:00 p.m.

    Increase there pay 25% by going to year round school. Teacher work part time.

    Full time work for full time pay.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 16, 2019 1:44 p.m.

    To "JakeShewmake " but funding is not the problem. The problem is the waste within the system.

    Lets take a look at the Washington DC school system. They spend around $27,000 per student per year. You would think that they could pay their teachers about 3 times as much as Utah does. However, their average teacher salary is $63,000 per year. It gets better, when you compare cost of living for DC to Utah, those teachers are grossly underpaid because the Utah salary of $53,000/yr is like $80,000 in the DC area.

    You see just spending more doesn't work. More money only breeds more waste and abuse.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2019 1:15 p.m.

    While looking at wages ( How many Utahns earn $60,000 per year ? ), take a look at benefits, which are pretty good, except the time off thing ( during the school year ) - that's limited. Dental, medical and retirement benefits are much better than I ever had outside the military.

  • JakeShewmake St. George, UT
    April 16, 2019 12:39 p.m.

    Once again, people commenting here who are only trying to start the same old conservative vs. liberal arguments that waste all of our time. The reality is that in Utah the legislature has created the perfect way to keep themselves in office. You under fund something so that the work can not get done to a satisfactory level, then blame the people who are doing the work. Then you convince the public that you would increase funding if the people who you underfunded could show they could do the job on the funding they have already been given. For well over a decade, state leaders have said let us cut the tax rates and then the economy will boom and we will take in more income taxes, then we can increase funding for education. But instead, when their supposed plan works and the funds roll in they immediately call it a "surplus" and want to give it all back. Ridiculous. But that's OK, just make the point that education gets 100% of income taxes and people won't care if Utah is last in the nation in funding because "golly" we must already be giving all we can. Utter nonsense and most of you commenting here buy it hook, line, and sinker. Stop cheating our children and pay up!

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    April 16, 2019 12:38 p.m.

    "a household of two parents and three children with one working adult would need an annual salary of nearly $60,000 to have a living wage based on typical expenses in Utah."

    Well, that is a nice goal; but reality has to come into this also:
    $60K would be a pretty good salary for an individual in Utah, and considering that it is for only 9 months work, it seems "very good".

    This is why "supply and demand" and a free market is so valuable. People always overestimate their value; especially academicians.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    April 16, 2019 12:31 p.m.

    To "dogbreath " but who gives her all of that homework to correct? Her administrators don't give her work to do at home. In fact, your wife is the one who determines how much grading there is to do. Why should taxpayers pay your wife more because she give herself more work to do? Any other employer would fire her for being so inefficient.

    To "Midwest Mom" but the problem is that there are too many administrators and waste going on in the school systems. Why not take all of those "specialists" and fire most of them. You could then take those salaries and give them to the teachers who would now be doing the job that the specialists once did. If you also dumped the cost involved with all of the standardized testing and computer based testing and subscription based software that the schools use you could also have more money to pay the teachers.

    To "greencat " we went to the moon in rockets built by the lowest bidder. We accomplished many monumental things on the backs of the lowest bidder.

  • MTerry SANDY, UT
    April 16, 2019 11:58 a.m.

    In the meantime, as Utah teacher salaries are at or near the bottom in the country, an additional $150 million has been estimated for the new prison with a reduction in the number of beds therein. Doesn't seem to be a problem coming up with those funds.

  • Western Rover Herriman, UT
    April 16, 2019 11:16 a.m.

    Teachers need to decide once and for all whether they want to be treated as white-collar or blue-collar workers. White-collar workers who are good at their jobs are promoted ahead of their more senior colleagues, and the worst are let go. When layoffs come, the dead wood are the first to get their pink slips in the white collar world. With blue collar workers, the last hired are the first to be laid off. I would be happy for my taxes to pay the mentors of the rising generation a white collar salary, if they accept white collar working conditions.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    April 16, 2019 10:38 a.m.

    What should teachers be paid?

    Respect.

    Respect men and woman who will never be paid what they are worth to our society for doing a job that few people understand or want to undertake themselves.

    One simple way to show respect.

    The ski resorts offer discounted season passes for age groups, select vocations as well as the military.

    Why not offer a discounted seasons pass for current or retired educators?

    Thank you to those who are now teaching as well as those who have retired!

  • theLem Layton, UT
    April 16, 2019 10:28 a.m.

    As a teacher I know for a fact: More money does not equal better teachers! Teachers’ salaries have increased over the last five years, yet most teachers have not improved their teaching. Teachers could earn $20k more and will continue committing their same teaching malpractice as they do today. A problem (of the many) with these discussions is that salary increases will be applied to every teacher regardless of student outcomes, student learning, teacher performance, et cetera. And yes our current accountability system of evaluations and training is absolutely worthless!
    Whatever a 'livable wage' means to people I personally can tell you that teachers do earn a livable wage. My family of five lives just fine on my salary. We do not have everything we want but that is not the government or taxpayers fault or responsibility. It is not the government or the taxpayers' responsibility to cater to the 'teacher entitlement mentality'. Furthermore, these discussions always focus on the whining teachers...pay attention to the students because there is where the real tragedy is unfolding. Once teachers have proven they can take care of their students, then pay them more.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    April 16, 2019 10:19 a.m.

    The economic law of supply and demand determines this issue in the long term. Given that there is not too much education that goes on in public schools these days, I suspect that teacher pay is about right. "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach".

    If they were actually teaching subjects of value and were teaching students how to critically think, they would be more highly valued, ergo, making more money. However, they are reduced, essentially, to 1) maintaining a modest amount of order in the classroom; 2) doing whatever social engineering they can regarding race and gender issues; 3) demonstrating and encouraging liberal values; 4) teaching to tests.

    Public schools, in essence, are engaged in the 'warehousing' of kids until they pass through the system. This is a primary reason that the best teachers are going to private, and charter schools.

  • MrLogic Brigham City, UT
    April 16, 2019 9:54 a.m.

    I taught for 14 years. I think I was pretty good at it - I received thank yous from many former students, I received a few awards from both students and administrators, and parents tended to put their kids into my classes.

    I never had a complaint about the money, but there were times it was very difficult to make ends meet. I always worked at least two jobs, and sometimes three. I'd get up at 5, prepare lessons and grade papers, go to work, come home, and go to work again. I never had a summer I didn't have to work, so I never really got vacation time. Weekends and holidays were chances to get extra grading and planning. But I always felt so blessed to be working with kids that didn't really mind.

    As time progressed, I burned out. No matter how many people claim it's not, teaching is a very difficult profession. I just couldn't keep that schedule any longer.

    Now I work with computers instead. I use the restroom whenever I need. My lunchtime isn't rushed. No one talks back to me. But best of all, my evenings and holidays are actually mine.

    I know not every teacher works like I did, but a lot do. We've got to do something about it, or we'll keep losing them.

  • F Alger Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2019 8:58 a.m.

    The issue for me as a educator is not the pay. It is that I am stuck in a horizontal career path, unless I somehow become an administrator (which is hard to do when you are competing against many, many applicants).

    I will be at the same level, with the same level of influence, when I am a 30 year veteran as a 3rd year teacher. No difference in how we are perceived according to the district, we are just a teacher with a level 2 license. I don't have any additional authority at my school, no way to hold others accountable....

    How many jobs would you want to work at for 30 years and you never move up, or have very few opportunities to advance in some way?

    Teaching is a horizontal position and unless the structure of education changes, teachers will feel like they are stuck and leave.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2019 8:47 a.m.

    "According to the Living Wage Calculator created by Massachusetts Institute of Technology researchers, a household of two parents and three children with one working adult would need an annual salary of nearly $60,000 to have a living wage based on typical expenses in Utah."

    And why isn't the second adult working in this hypothetical scenario?

    No one is entitled to not work and to make enough money to live off of, especially when you chose to have 3 kids.

    Both adults should work. And then if both adults want to choose to have kids and choose to have one parent stay home - fine - pay for it. But its a laughable premise to suggest a two parent household can choose for one parent to not work, choose to have 3 kids, and then complain about not making enough money to support those 4 people who are not working. You chose to not work, you chose to have those 3 kids.

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    April 16, 2019 8:17 a.m.

    Third try screen name
    A few things wrong with your posts...

    1. First in Utah it is an association, not a union. UEA can only negotiate to try to improve things for teachers, they have no real power, because Utah is a "right to work" state. The districts still sets the wages earned by the teachers, the legislature allocates money for raises.

    2. Parents are the worst people to ask about teachers salaries. Why? because most of them have no clue what it takes to be a good teacher, and with the current generation of parents, it is easier to blame teachers than themselves for their children failing.

    3.

  • Steve Drabner El Paso, TX
    April 16, 2019 7:50 a.m.

    Teachers are so important, but so under paid in Utah. I lived most of my life in Salt Lake County. I worked for USPS in Salt Lake City, and had several coworkers who were teachers and had to work two jobs,
    Utah needs to raise teacher pay, Teachers should not have to pay for supplies for their students out of their own pocket.

  • EDM Castle Valley, Utah
    April 16, 2019 7:37 a.m.

    We voters can only point fingers at ourselves.

    Well before I was old enough to vote myself, I saw the consistent pattern of Utahns voting against their own interests. So here we are, claiming to value large families on one hand, yet under-funding teacher salaries at the same time.

  • rlynn Brandon, FL
    April 16, 2019 7:27 a.m.

    The reality is that teachers must be paid a living wage...I know I was school teacher and married to one. I left for a higher paying job. There should be no debate on this. Stop sending public funds to charter schools is one way. Administrator's pay is another.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    April 16, 2019 7:09 a.m.

    There was a time when school teacher pay was determined by representatives from the community elected to serve on the school board. Then came public sector unions.

    What kind of person would think they can better determine teacher pay than parents? The whole premise is wrong.

  • greencat Kearns, UT
    April 16, 2019 7:05 a.m.

    JI - you get what you pay for. Do you really want the people who are shaping the future generations to be the ones who will work for peanuts? If you want high quality teachers in the classroom, you need to pay them accordingly. We can't let the education of our children go to the lowest bidder.

  • Midwest Mom Soldiers Grove, WI
    April 16, 2019 6:33 a.m.

    The "teachers get summers off" line is not comparable to predominately male professions, like construction.

    We all know that most construction workers are laid off, during the winter, though most still keep their health benefits during their lay-off period. Then those workers pull unemployment pay. Essentially, taxpayers subsidize the construction industry in that way. But we can all appreciate that having a ready, skilled set of these workers is valuable to society. But I've never heard a politician, or taxpayer, bemoan this work culture. Is it because the majority of construction workers are men, and the majority of teachers are women? Are Utah's teachers so poorly paid because they are women?

    Here in Wisconsin, our formerly well-paid teachers have suffered since the Republican's ACT 10. My husband still does not make as much as he did before that, 10 years ago. Thirty-five years teaching experience, a Master's degree, numerous teaching awards. Our son-in-law made more in his first year of nursing, working 3 days a week, with better benefits.

    If we want good teachers, we need to pay them well.

  • dogbreath Francis, UT
    April 16, 2019 6:07 a.m.

    @ high school fan; teachers certainly work more than 180 school days per year. My wife teaches. She brings her work home with her every night and while she is correcting english/grammar/spelling, etc. I am correcting math. And this will go on into the evening, every evening, until 10:00 or 10:30, then into the weekend. She brings her work home with her so that she isn't sidetracked by the other teachers in the school. high school fan you have not done due diligence in your off the cuff commenting.
    @ the writer of the article; once again a group of oligarchs are empaneled to set a course of investigation for which they know nothing about. What happened to the empaneling of the teachers? My suggestion is that for every non teacher on the panel, two teachers shall be empaneled. And I would prefer that the Envision panel members have approximately the same income level as teachers.
    It's time to get real thinking on this issue rather than have people make decisions that are insulated from the real issues of teacher pay. Envision empaneling should be staffed by
    teachers.

  • Guido Pescatore Layton, UT
    April 16, 2019 5:05 a.m.

    Ji - except it's a social service, so market forces do not really come into play. And good teachers who have been working for less for years are fleeing the profession. Even the legislature is starting to notice - remember their survey they put out for teachers last year asking why? I'm glad my kids are almost done because I worry about what will be left of our education system in 5 or 10 years.

    High school fan - stop with that tired argument. Yes, they work fewer days, but I'll guarantee the hours that many educators put in on those days will come close to reaching the 2080 annual hours a full time employee in any other profession will have (source: my observation of my wife who has taught for 10 years and her colleagues).

    From the article: "Median teacher salaries are $5,800 short of that $60,000 mark." I'm just curious if that is weighted salary (salary+benefits), because my wife who is a 10 year Davis School District teacher is making ~$42,000 this year - nowhere near the $54,000 cited in the article.

  • Misseleer71 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2019 4:13 a.m.

    It is totally wrong that this political group is given any authority to rate or choose what other people should get paid. This it the responsibility the legislators to create a workable upward mobility pay grades according to subject, experience, years in service, and self improvement standards built into the pay grade system. Nothing should be automatic and pay raises and grades should be earned and supervisors performance rating by testing and evaluation like we have in any other job or profession. If teachers are given more money than they are working then they should be required to work other jobs in government during summer to get a 12 month year of pay.

    Some say children should not be let out of school because restarting a new year is about a week of revue over the school break as it should be. We teach, they learn, and they remember and have memories affirmed by the leaning process. Year round schools challenges the student learning process at each year of their lives. We can't deny children to test themselves and learn what they have been taught.

  • water rocket , 00
    April 16, 2019 1:19 a.m.

    I am all for giving good teachers better pay, however, I am also for getting rid of the bottom feeders. I strongly believe that the current education budget could easily provide mush better pay, if the administrators would slow down on tearing down schools over twenty years old and stop building these megaplex, Taj Mahal campuses. I further believe that All administration salaries should not exceed 300% of the average teacher salary. Oh yes, and I also believe that the free housing, the free vehicle use and the paid vacations to Europe completely stop.

  • wer South Jordan, UT
    April 15, 2019 11:22 p.m.

    So many vague and misguided references. Those who complain about the number of work days for teachers have likely never spent a day, much less a school year, in a classroom.

    It wasn't that many years ago when a "dispute" arose in a classroom, the parents almost always sided with the teacher. Now, the burden is almost always on the teacher.

    Now, add the challenges with a growing number of unsupportive parents, many of whom give their children unfettered access to the internet with mobile devices which the children use to the distraction of the teachers and classmates./

    Combine that with the realities of teacher salaries. One of our sons in law teaches high school in Utah. Although he has been teaching 12 years and has a Masters Degree, his children qualify for
    free lunches at school. And, until this year, the school district where I work required a BA to even substitute teach. The compensation for which is less than what I get paid for driving a school bus.

    When elected or appointed government officials or education administrators wonder why it's hard to get and maintain teachers, the answer is a simple one: pay a reasonable salary, more than a bus driver gets!

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    April 15, 2019 10:50 p.m.

    Teachers get paid for 180 works days a year, give or take, while the rest of us work 250. That is part of the difference. After three years it is hard to fire a teacher, that is part of the difference. And lastly, teaching is like being a policeman, you don’t do it for the money you do it cause you love it.

  • ji_ Ketchikan, AK
    April 15, 2019 10:29 p.m.

    Isn’t all pay best left to market forces? Other than a minimum floor, I would prefer to leave the matter alone. If anyone in any job wants to make more money, he or she looks at the marketplace and adjusts. If schools are able to recruit good teachers at low salaries, that’s great! If schools need to raise salaries to attract better teachers, then all currently-serving teachers should be required to re-apply for the higher salaries — maybe they will be selected, maybe not, depending on the competition.

  • drski Eden, UT
    April 15, 2019 9:43 p.m.

    If we didn't give multi million dollar tax brakes to developers and big companies, we could easily afford to pay teachers more!!

  • BC-Cali21 , CA
    April 15, 2019 8:56 p.m.

    One cannot define what a “living wage” is. “Living wage” for you is a different value for almost everyone.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    April 15, 2019 8:46 p.m.

    The trouble with Envision is that they have power and money...but do not represent anyone.

    They are not elected. They are oligarchs. Why does the newspaper grant them authority status.

    We've gone astray by challenging referenda and giving the imprimatur of authority to groups like this. We are not an oligarchy - yet.