"it would also be nice if any number of wealthy people offered to rebuild
it. "They already have promised donations over 400 million
Euros.No impart, you made it about Trump. An interview with a
French fireman said no they could not use water tankers but said they had
considered it and rejected it before Trump's tweet.A historical
fact is they had a nick-name for the cathedral, "The Forest". Because
of the amount of lumber that was cut to build it.
I think the reason people are upset with Trump is that he appears to have no
idea of how to show sympathy to others. Instead it's all about his ideas
and his contributions, even when he clearly has no idea what he's talking
about.Seriously, does he think it's a new idea that the
firefighters "must act quickly?"
I think the reason people are upset with Trump is not that his idea is not a
legitimate option, according to structural engineers. The reason people are
upset is that his tweet implied that the French firefighters weren't doing
all that could be done to fight the fire. He implied that if they didn't
take his advice, with time running out, they would lose the building. It would
be the equivalent of someone coming off the street with no experience telling a
teacher how to teach math, or a person who's looked something up on the
internet lecturing a doctor about treatment. It's the suggestion that he,
alone, is the expert on all things and his consistent discounting of experts on
their fields of expertise.
It is a real tragedy. But other cathedrals in Europe were damaged severely
during World War II, and some were rebuilt. As for Trump's
suggestion to consider aerial water drops, they can done with properly equipped
helicopters, just as they were done on the burning Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear
reactors in 2011 when the radiation danger ruled out conventional fire trucks.
In 2000, helicopters equipped to pick up and deposit water were
used to fight a wildfire that burned some 200 square miles of sagebrush and
radioactive industrial structures at the Hanford Nuclear Site in eastern
Washington, where 75% of the plutonium in American nuclear weapons was
manufactured. Every five minutes I could watch a helicopter pick up a load of
water from the Columbia River outside my office. The Paris fire fighters are
already spraying tons of water onto the burning roof, so a helicopter drop,
perhaps using water from the Seine, would just be an alternate way of putting
the same volume of fire suppression water onto the burning roof.
When I was 7-years old, an arsonist spout has all around our almost completed
chapel and lit a match to burn everything inside and into the roof.I
hav also seen buildings under construction and remodeling burn due to wiring,
welding, and fuel sources being the cause even from smoldering.It is
said to think of that Cathedral having water surrounding the building but no
active fire suppression. The Provo Tabernacle was a similar fire of
a historic building. I am grateful everyone apparently got out
"Then Quasimodo said, with a sob which heaved his deep
chest,—'Oh! all that I have ever loved!'"
Some thoughts come to mind1) We can mourn with those of other
faiths for their losses, because their losses are also our losses (to some
degree).2) We can share concern for those responsible for this
tragedy, although I suspect that some responsibility will also have some
consequences.3) I suspect that Trump and other leaders have empathy
for this tragic event, even if they don't know the best words to use in
expressing their feelings.4) Now is not a time to cast stones, but
to unite in common and shared grief.5) I would love to see it
rebuilt, but how do you ever restore the original art work? You don't.6) This is not the same thing as the terrorist attack on the twin
towers, but it truly is a tremendous loss for France, the Catholic church,
tourism, and architectural admirers.7) What affects one segment of
society affects all of society to a degree.8) Now is a good time to
offer condolences. 9) The good people of France will appreciate the
good people of America as we share their feelings of loss.10) We
can learn from the past, but build for the future.
Aujourd'hui, nous sommes tous parisiens. (Today, we are all Parisians.)
I am not sure about any on the inane chatter here and elsewhere..... it is Holy
Week... the most important events in the history of the world occurred 2000
years ago.... so pray for the firefighters... pray for cathedral... pray for
This is a tragic destruction of a great historical structure.FYI,
since the French Revolution, all of the Catholic Church structures, in France,
were taken over by the national government. The French population wanted to
reduce the power of that church.Couple reasons that the French
government will rebuild the structure; they own it and it brings in money
"Catholics didn't rebuild it. We rebuilt it. It was expensive. The Pope
didn't pay for it."Two bits... you are really comparing the
historic and cultural significance of the Provo Tabernacle to Notre Dame?
Literally millions of people each year visit Paris, and this is the most visited
location in Paris. This is as if the Salt Lake Temple bought on fire - but only
on steroids. The idea that we would only offer help and support if they helped
us first is really kinda sad.Second, the Catholic Church has long
held a special place in out faith and development. Early on Brigham Young had
Catholic nuns brought to the valley to teach his kids. Durning my grandfathers
funeral the catholic priest stood on the steps of the church and rang the bells
as his procession headed to the SL cemetery. Notre Dame is truly a
special building. It has been the center of faith for literally centuries... to
millions of people. To many of our ancestors of European decent it was only
second to the Vatican in importance. Anyway, sad day for millions of people.
@jsf - Centerville, UTApril 15, 2019 3:38 p.m.To all the Trump
haters, this isn't about Trump. and it isn't about you."Trump made it about Trump, just like he always does. He's the President,
he could've called experts in the US to explain to him why his
"idea" would do more damage than the fire. French people, including
their leaders don't like Trump and they sure don't need his illadvised remarks while their cherished national treasure is burning.
@ 2 bits - Cottonwood Heights, UT - April 15, 2019 2:58 p.m.and@ LonestarRunner - Salt Lake City, UT - April 15, 2019 3:21 p.m.My mistake. I did not mean that the LDS church should offer to rebuild
the entire cathedral. "Helping" is nice but totally taking over is not
a good idea because that would very likely cause hard feelings from the Catholic
church to the LDS church due to a (false) perception that Mormons feel the
Catholics are weak and can't do or sustain anything without help. Anyway,
"taking over" is not what I meant, I just meant to "help" in
terms of the financial cost. Personally, I feel an offer to help financially or
otherwise would be a wonderfully warm, and appreciated, gesture.Cheers.
When I first read the suggestion from the President that air tankers drop water
on the fire, my immediate reaction was -- hey, that might work. But then of
course, it was explained that this would do more harm than good. Okay, it was
just an idea. I don't think we need to criticize the president for not
being a structural engineer. I think he was honestly trying to help. And for
that matter, it would be a nice gesture for the LDS church to completely finance
the rebuild; not practical, but a nice idea and it would also be nice if any
number of wealthy people offered to rebuild it. Maybe a lot of people can
contribute.This is a tragedy. Let's treat it as such and avoid
the temptation to take opportunity to be critical of suggestions and good
intentions; even if not well thought out.
Rubydo - Provo, UT, I agree! The vile comments attacking your fellow Americans
from Trump and his Supporters is now very common place. It really does
shock his Supporters when one as bad hits them.I am very sad for the
destruction of Notre Dame Cathedral
@we the people"Trump's idea to use water-bombing planes was
brilliant."Oh yes, it was brilliant. Hey, I've got an idea:
Let's drop water from planes on every structure fire. If it works in
France, it would work here too.Oh wait, I know why: Because the
force of the water destroys the structure you're trying to save.Never mind...
ji_ - “Notre Dame de Paris is owned and maintained by the people of France
through its government, not by the Roman Catholic Church, although the church is
allowed use of the space.”Only partially true.Under a 1905 law, Notre-Dame de Paris is among seventy churches in Paris built
before that year that are owned by the French State. While the building itself
is owned by the state, the Catholic Church is the designated beneficiary, having
the exclusive right to use it for religious purpose in perpetuity. The
archdiocese is responsible for paying the employees, security, heating and
cleaning, and assuring that the cathedral is open free to visitors. The
archdiocese does not receive subsidies from the French State.
Notre Dame de Paris is owned and maintained by the people of France through its
government, not by the Roman Catholic Church, although the church is allowed use
of the space. M. Macron, the President of the Republic of France, has already
expressed an intention (a hope?) to rebuild.This is a sad day.
I've never been to the cathedral, my knowledge of French history is
probably far too dependent on French literature, and I'm not religious. And
yet I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. Pres. Macron just said it:
"It's our common history."
To all the Trump haters, this isn't about Trump. and it isn't about
Political commentary just does not belong here. This is a very sad tragedy on
so many levels: religious, artistic, historical, aesthetic, cultural, just to
name a few. Please stay on topic and leave out the political commentary.All people of good will should feel a terrible sense of loss of this
iconic piece of architecture, history, and worship.
Why are so many people using this Tragic Event to mock our Leader Donald
Trump?Trump's idea to use water-bombing planes was brilliant.
Did the French take his advice?Perhaps Trump can help in the
rebuilding. He has erected many many buildings all over the world. The French
would be grateful for his help.
The Caravan Moves On - "I feel bad for Catholics. I know I would be
enormously sad to see the Salt Lake temple burn to the ground. I am already
wondering if in a "lemons to lemonade" move, if the Church will reach
out to the Pope and offer to help in this tragedy? Perhaps even to offer to help
pay for a complete rebuild? What a way to help improve our mutual friendship and
strengths!"A nice, but completely unrealistic, gesture. IF they decide to rebuild the Notre Dame Cathedral, it will likely cost
over $1 billion and the lost art work is irreplaceable. It would be
like trying to replace the Mona Lisa, only on an infinitely grander scale.btw,The Provo Tabernacle wasn't rebuilt; the brick
facade and some of the towers were preserved, but the remainder of the building
was completely replaced with an entirely new building.
@rubydo"Insinuating that Trump and Putin are celebrating this
event surprises me that such a ridiculous statement would make it past the DN
moderators."Well, yours made it past as well, so I guess
anything is possible.Trump is not celebrating this, but you have to
admit that tweeting about airdropping water on it is quite a buffoonish thing to
say.And sorry to rain on your parade, but authorities in Paris
already said it was a construction fire, not terrorism.
I am much saddened by this news. Notre Dame has stood watch over Paris for 850+
years. It is a sad day for France, all of Christendom, and the whole world.
@The Caravan Moves OnRE: "I am already wondering if the Church will
reach out to the Pope and offer to help in this tragedy? Perhaps even to offer
to help pay for a complete rebuild? We shall see"...---We know
what this feels like you know. Remember when the historic Provo Tabernacle
burned recently? Google "How a simple spark destroyed the Provo
Tabernacle" for some pictures of the destructionCatholics
didn't rebuild it. We rebuilt it. It was expensive. The Pope
didn't pay for it. Expecting the LDS church to pay for a complete rebuild
of Notre Dame Cathedral seems a little strange. We're nowhere as big or as
rich as the Catholic Church.Pretty sure the Pope will raise funds to
rebuild it. Just like the renovation they were doing when the fire started.
Just like we did when the Provo Tabernacle burned.Cathedrals like
Notre Dame cost a ton. Took generations of dedicated Catholics to build it.
Hoping the LDS church will fund a complete rebuild to show we are friends seems
a little silly.They will rebuild it. Not the LDS church. And
no... that doesn't mean we are not friends.
I feel bad for Catholics. I know I would be enormously sad to see the Salt Lake
temple burn to the ground.I am already wondering if in a "lemons
to lemonade" move, if the Church will reach out to the Pope and offer to
help in this tragedy? Perhaps even to offer to help pay for a complete rebuild?
What a way to help improve our mutual friendship and strengths!We
@ Impartial7 - DRAPER, UT - April 15, 2019 12:59 p.m. - "This is so sad. We
last visited in 2017. The only thing more shocking is Trump's inane tweet.
Is there no situation that he can't make worse?"What should
Trump have said?....."Burn!, baby, burn!"I mean,
Impartial7 - "This is so sad. We last visited in 2017. The only thing more
shocking is Trump's inane tweet. Is there no situation that he can't
make worse?"Seriously, you can't even observe a "moment
of silence" for such an historic, heartbreaking loss without dragging your
political, Trump hating agenda into it?
Tragic. I hope the construction company has really, really good insurance.
I just read about trump's idiotic tweet.No wonder the French
don't think much of him. America's embarrassment.We apologize, people of France.
A tragedy, indeed.Few things in the world are absolutely
irreplaceable, and this is one of them.
My heart hurts for those in Paris-- and it hurts for the rest of us who loved
that building. So very sad.I talked to one person from NYC who
said it was doubly hard to get over the effects of 9/11 because the skyline was
changed-- and every time he saw the Twin Towers missing it was a fresh stab to
the heart and a fresh wave of sadness. So glad terrorism was not
involved with Notre Dame (at least at this time they don't think so) but
that changed skyline there will haunt people for a long time.
@Impartial7RE: "The only thing more shocking is Trump's inane
tweet"...---Oh my gosh Impartial. Even this has to be twisted
into a dig on Trump?I just think this is sad enough without bringing
the usual partisan bickering into it. Can we leave it out of one topic?===On the "Study: Fox News is obsessed with Alexandria
Ocasio-Cortez" story in the DesNews today...A liberal said, "Fox
News has mentioned AOC 3,181 times in 42 days. That's an average of 78
times per day. Any human being who repeats the same phrase 78 times a day
probably should see a mental health professional"...---So...
should people who mention Trump in every comment see a mental health
professional?How often is Trump mentioned in your news? 78 times
at least. Should people at CNN, MSNBC, etc, see a mental health Professional?
Or just people who mention AOC a lot?===@LOU Montana,RE: "Trump and Putin celebrate this moment"...---Seriously?===RE: "Dictators always remove
important and historical monuments"...---Are you seriously
saying Trump did this?And is Trump really a dictator? No more than
any other American President.
Incredibly sad, heartbreaking loss.Our family visited the Notre Dame
Cathedral a year ago last week.A piece of history that will never be
replaced was lost today.My heart grieves with all of France tonight.
The people of Paris and France have lost their most beautiful ancient sacred
space. My heart hurts for them. The world has lost a priceless treasure.
That is awful! Spent 18 months in Paris as a missionary. The Notre Dame was one
of my favorite landmarks. Beautiful building and an incredible loss for a
This is so sad. We last visited in 2017. The only thing more shocking is
Trump's inane tweet. Is there no situation that he can't make worse?
Notre Dame survived the Nazis, only to be taken out by some construction
workers. I was there last month, it's even more detailed and amazing in
person. So much history and artistry. And during Holy Week! Such a tragic loss.
This is among the most beautiful of buildings I have ever had the privilege of
being in. It is a testament to the sacrifice of many generations of faithful
Christians who worked on it over centuries, many giving their lives in the
process. I hope the fire can be contained quickly. Even minimal damage to a
great Cathedral such as this will sadly cause the loss of irreplaceable artwork
and religious treasures, and will be tragic to the many who worship there
regularly. Our hearts go out to the people of Paris.
So sad. Such an iconic piece of classic architecture. And so integral to the
community and the people of Paris. It's a shame.