South Carolina grad transfer Ty'Son Williams announces he's joining BYU's running backs

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  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    April 20, 2019 3:52 p.m.

    azute1

    How many major conference championships does Utah-SLC have?

    Crickets.

    Your PAC 12 arrogance is laughable?

    Major Conference Championships
    BYU - 0
    Utah - 0

    Mid-Major Conference Championships
    BYU - 23
    Utah - 6

    National Championships
    BYU - 1
    Utah - 0

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 20, 2019 1:37 p.m.

    Michigan Cougsfan68 - Ann Arbor, MI
    April 20, 2019 10:42 a.m.

    AzUte1,
    Nice show of true sportsmanship! Yes, # 9 is coming but this case it is the number of years in the Pac 12 without a major conference championship and counting!!!!! See you in Aug. 29th!

    ——-

    How many “major conference championships” does byu-p have?

    Crickets.

    Your U/PAC-12/P5 envy is palpable.

    Our 9th consecutive victory over byu-p is right around the corner—Beware.

    Go Utes!

    p.s. What’s w/all of the exclamation marks?

  • Michigan Cougsfan68 Ann Arbor, MI
    April 20, 2019 10:42 a.m.

    AzUte1,
    Nice show of true sportsmanship! Yes, # 9 is coming but this case it is the number of years in the Pac 12 without a major conference championship and counting!!!!! See you in Aug. 29th!

  • MRM Layton, UT
    April 20, 2019 9:34 a.m.

    “...need to establish yourself as a legitimate national championship contender entering the season.

    BYU did in 1984.

    Utah failed miserably in 2008”

    So true.

    BYU finished 1983 ranked #7 and was ranked in the Top 10 by mid-September 1984. BYU finished the regular season ranked #1.

    BYU won the Consensus National Championship in 1984.

    Utah finished 2007 unranked and didn’t crack the Top 10 until mid-November 2008. Utah finished the regular season ranked #7.

    Utah was never even a legitimate contender in 2008.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 20, 2019 8:03 a.m.

    Wild Ute - Sandy, UT
    April 19, 2019 7:37 p.m.
    Funny in 2008 Utah did a lot more then BYU has ever done and or accomplished in 84.

    Funny how you’re assuming that national championships are won in a vacuum; that there’s no need to establish yourself as a legitimate national championship contender entering the season.

    BYU did in 1984.

    Utah failed miserably in 2008.

    The results speak for themselves.

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 19, 2019 7:37 p.m.

    Funny in 2008 Utah did a lot more then BYU has ever done and or accomplished in 84. Utah beat #24 Michigan in Ann Arbor. An OSU team who the weekend before beat preseason #3 USC. #11 TCU, #14 BYU, and #4 Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. So Utah beat 4 top 25 teams a lot better than BYU who beat preseason #3 where did they finish?Baylor top 25 nope, no other top 25 teams so how did BYU do better in 84 compared to Utah playing and beating 4 top 25 teams and being undefeated again 4 years after they did it in 04. Utah is so far ahead of BYU far superior to BYU not even funny. Good try though I know it burns having the team that launched the BCS. National Champs 2008 sounds so good and right.

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    April 19, 2019 6:29 p.m.

    Wild Ute

    “Ute fans had to deal with 84 even though BYU played no one.”

    BYU 1984 beat #24 Air Force on the road, which finished higher in the final AP poll than Utah’s 2004 Fiesta Bowl opponent, Pittsburgh, which finished #25.

    Utah has NEVER even come close to accomplishing what BYU did in 1984,

    being chosen #1 by ALL FIVE major selecting organizations of the day,

    including both major polls, AP and Coaches.

    BYU established themselves as legitimate national championship contenders in 1984 by finishing in the Top 12 with 11+ win seasons in 1979, 1980, 1981 and 1983.

    Utah has only had TWO 11+ win, Top 12 finishes in their entire history.

    BYU 1984 SOS #82
    Utah 2008 SOS #80

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 19, 2019 4:55 p.m.

    After we straight kick byu-p’s teeth in this year on their home-field, all of you byu-p fans will immediately scatter like roaches into your holes for the remainder of the year, period.

    Look forward to witnessing the annual pilgrimage & enjoying the silence accompanying it.

    Really look forward to our Big Boy schedule & PAC-12 Championship march starting three games later in L.A.

    #9iscoming

    Go Utes!

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 19, 2019 4:19 p.m.

    That is what the NCAA, KSL, Dnews, SLTRIB are saying so take away Florida s national championship in 2008 because that is how the decided who went to the BCS championship game. Your just mad Utah did more in 2008 then BYU ever did in 84. Because of BYUs championship we know have had the BCS and the 4 game championship.

    But Google it utah national championship and you will see it was reported by all local papers ESPN 247sports and all the national outlets.

    Utah national champs 2008 deal with it. Ute fans had to deal with 84 even though BYU played no one.

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    April 19, 2019 4:18 p.m.

    I small a National Championship this year with the Rice grad transfer and this guy. Man I can't wait for the season. Her come 12 wins for sure!

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    April 19, 2019 12:50 p.m.

    WildUte

    "Phoenix what you are failing to see is that was then this is now ..."

    What you're failing to see is the vast difference between what the rest of the world sees,

    and what you see from inside your crimson bubble.

    Congratulations on your footnote natty.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    April 19, 2019 12:44 p.m.

    Has anyone ever seen the mythical Anderson-Hester national championship trophy?

    Is it one-eighteenth the size of the American Football Coaches Association National Championship Trophy...

    which consists of a Waterford Crystal football affixed to an ebony base, and carries a value of over $30,000?

    The football portion of the trophy weighs approximately eight pounds and together with the ebony stand, the trophy weighs about 45 pounds (20 kg) and stands 34 inches (86 cm) tall.

    It is handmade by master craftspeople at Waterford Crystal and reportedly takes nearly three months to complete.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    April 19, 2019 12:07 p.m.

    Wild Ute

    “...the NCAA decided this past year to honor Utah's undefeated season and awarded them National Champs because they were #1 in the final Anderson- Hester computer rankings used during the time period to determine the BCS National Champion...”

    So, the NCAA decided to award Utah a national championship based on the results of 1/6th of the computer rankings used for 1/3rd of the BCS ranking formula?

    In other words, Utah “won” 1/18th of a national championship.

    So when we visit Utah’s hall of fame closet, we’ll be able see Utah’s 1/18th of a national championship trophy proudly displayed next to Utah’s SOS trophies?

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 19, 2019 11:35 a.m.

    Phoenix what you are failing to see is that was then this is now and the NCAA decided this past year to honor Utah's undefeated season and awarded them National Champs because they were #1 in the final Anderson- Hester computer rankings used during the time period to determine the BCS National Champion. In the rundown of 2008 champions, Utah is listed next to Florida, the BCS winner.
    After the Utes beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl the Anderson-Hester rankings lifted the Utes from #2 to #1. The Utes rating of .812 topped Florida .805 and Texas .802. Which is why the NCAA now recognizes Utah as the National Champs alongside Florida.
    So yes the NCAA does recognize Utah now as National Champs in 2008. Proof is in the pudding and the banners sent by the NCAA are hanging in Rice Stadium.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    April 19, 2019 10:36 a.m.

    Wild Ute

    The elephant in the room that you're choosing to ignore is that in the formula used for determining the contestants in the BCS national championship game in 2008,

    Utah finished SIXTH!

    And, since the NCAA didn't have anything to do with determining the BCS rules, what gives the NCAA any authority, whatsoever, to retroactively award a "national championship"10 years after the fact, based on a computer ranking that wasn't even recognized by the BCS rules after the final regular season ranking was used to select the two contestants for the championship game?

    If you're going to invoke BCS rules, then, according to those rules,

    Utah finished FOURTH!

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 19, 2019 10:28 a.m.

    Wild Ute

    "Now I am hearing BYU admittance may not allow the RB in this article transfer into BYU wont that hurt BYU chances to be able to obtain other graduate transfers?"

    Do you seriously not understand how the grad transfer system works?

    In order to attend any school as a grad transfer, you have to be accepted to a graduate program at that school. BYU is no different that any other FBS program in that respect, so how would that "hurt" BYU's chances to attract other grad transfers?

    Does Utah just hand out automatic accept to any grad school on the hill for any athlete who wants to transfer to Utah?

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    April 19, 2019 10:20 a.m.

    Wild Ute

    "The NCAA’s Football Records Book has been updated to include the Utes as No. 1 in the final Anderson-Hester computer rankings, used in the formula for determining the contestants in the BCS national championship game in that era."

    Keep digging that hole...

    Anderson-Hester was one of SIX BCS Computer Ranking in 2008, which in turn, were ONE-THIRD of the Final BCS Ranking, in which the Utes finished SIXTH.

    Harris
    #1 Oklahoma - 2699 points
    #2 Florida - 2776
    #3 Texas - 2616
    #4 Alabama - 2442
    #5 USC - 2413
    #6 Utah - 2119

    Coaches
    #1 Oklahoma - 1482
    #2 Florida - 1481
    #3 Texas - 1408
    #4 Alabama - 1309
    #4 USC - 1309
    #6 Utah - 1134

    Computers
    #1 Oklahoma - 1.0000
    #2 Texas - 0.9400
    #3 Florida - 0.8900
    #4 Texas Tech - 0.8700
    #5 Utah - 0.8600
    #6 USC - 0.8100

    BCS Overall
    #1 Oklahoma - 0.976
    #2 Florida - 0.948
    #3 Texas - 0.930
    #4 Alabama - 0.844
    #5 USC - 0.821
    #6 Utah - 0.785
    #7 Texas Tech - 0.784

    Bottom line:

    Utah wasn't even close to being a contender for the 2008 national championship, and according to BCS rules, Utah finished #4 in the official BCS final poll, the Coaches poll.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 19, 2019 9:51 a.m.

    ArizonaUte

    "Utah is actually listed in the NCAA record book."

    Really?

    Cite the page number in the NCAA record book and the source.

    The truth is, there really isn't anything any fan living outside of the crimson bubble would care about "claiming".

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 19, 2019 9:37 a.m.

    Read it and weep

    The NCAA’s Football Records Book has been updated to include the Utes as No. 1 in the final Anderson-Hester computer rankings, used in the formula for determining the contestants in the BCS national championship game in that era. In the rundown of 2008 champions, Utah is listed next to Florida, the BCS winner.

    Now I am hearing BYU admittance may not allow the RB in this article transfer into BYU wont that hurt BYU chances to be able to obtain other graduate transfers?

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 19, 2019 9:24 a.m.

    @SportsFan - Provo, UT

    Utah is actually listed in the NCAA record book. It's on one list but not on another. The reason being? Utah hasn't claimed it. The one list only shows NCs claimed by the respective team.

    It's why UCF is listed. They claim it. But Utah is listed with Florida as national champions for the 2008 season. If I could attach the NCAA Football Bowl Subdivision Records PDF, I would, and you'd see Utah on page 115.

    Utah received 16 1st place votes that yr. finishing #2 in the AP. UCF received 4 1st place votes in 2017 finishing #6 in the AP.

    Both Utah and UCF were the only undefeated FBS teams their respective yrs. and Utah beat more teams who finished ranked and more higher ranked than UCF.

    The difference? UCF claims theirs, Utah doesn't.

    BYU is one of 4 teams listed for 1984, page 114 in the PDF. Along with Florida, Nebraska and Washington.

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 19, 2019 9:23 a.m.

    Google the NCAA record books and articles the banners are all ready hanging at Rice Eccles Stadium. This past year the NCAA awarded Utah the National Championship sorry BYU fans you are not the only National Champs anymore in Utah.

    KSL ran an article 8/25/2018
    SLTRIB ran theirs 8/27/2018
    In NCAA record books August 2018
    Utah national champs 2008

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    April 19, 2019 8:43 a.m.

    Wild Ute

    "...in 2008 Utah won the National Championship beating Alabama and going undefeated."

    2008 AP Final Poll
    #1 Florida (48 - 1st place votes)
    #2 Utah (16)
    #3 USC (1)
    #4 Texas

    2008 Coaches Final Poll
    #1 Florida (60 - 1st place votes)
    #2 USC
    #3 Texas
    #4 Utah (1)

    Whittingham is the only coach who gave Utah a 1st place vote in 2008.

    As for the myth of Utah "winning" the 2008 national football championship, which insignificant poll did Utah finish 1st in and how many 1st place votes did Utah receive?

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    April 19, 2019 8:20 a.m.

    Wild Ute -
    @Blue n Gold
    "Sorry to burst your bubble but in 2008 Utah won the National Championship beating Alabama and going undefeated.

    This was recognized by the NCAA and is in the record books.
    National Championship
    BYU 1 Utah 1"

    NOPE!

    Utah finished 1st in ONE minor poll and isn't even mentioned on the NCAA FBS National Championship History website. In the real polls, Utah finished a distant 2nd in AP and 4th in the official BCS final poll, the Coaches poll.

    BYU won the CONSENSUS National Championship, recognized as the 1984 National Champion by ALL FIVE major selecting organizations:

    From the Official NCAA FBS Championship History Web Page
    Season | Champion | Selecting Organization
    2008 | Florida | BCS
    2004 | USC* | BCS
    1985 | Oklahoma | AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
    1984 | BYU | AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
    1983 | Miami | AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI

    * Southern California’s participation in the 2004 championship was vacated by the NCAA Committee on Infractions.

    Somewhere in the NCAA's footnotes for 2008, Utah might be mentioned, but nobody outside of the crimson bubble cares.

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 18, 2019 11:49 p.m.

    Blue n Gold
    Sorry to burst your bubble but in 2008 Utah won the National Championship beating Alabama and going undefeated.

    This was recognized by the NCAA and is in the record books.
    National Championship
    BYU 1 Utah 1

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 18, 2019 7:32 p.m.

    I can’t wait to kick byu-p’s teeth in on their home-field this year & put an immediate end to all this annual posturing/chest-beating by byu-p’s fanbase.....I’m talking ‘11 annihilation.

    ZM will run wild on them, guaranteed.

    8 straight & counting, 13 of 16, 18 of 26 & the insurmountable overall record, 61-34-4.

    Who’s your Daddy?

    Go Utes!

  • BlueCoug Provo, UT
    April 18, 2019 12:30 p.m.

    ArizonaUte

    “I know Utah football WAY, WAY more than I ever want to know about BYU.”

    As a BYU and Utah alum,

    I know WAY, WAY more about BYU and Utah football; not a boast, just a fact.

    For example:

    How many AP Top 20 ranked, conference championship winning teams did Utah have from 1892 to 2019?

    How many has BYU had since 2006?

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    April 18, 2019 12:14 p.m.

    “Utah has won more bowl games in history than BYU”

    yawn

    Utah 17
    BYU 15

    plus a tie versus #10 Iowa,
    against a MUCH tougher bowl opponent SOS;

    BYU has played nearly as many ranked bowl opponents as Utah has played bowls

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    April 18, 2019 12:08 p.m.

    ArizonaUte

    Despite your desperate attempt to inflate Utah’s accomplishments, they pale in comparison to BYU’s accomplishments:

    National Championships
    BYU 1 > Utah 0

    Heisman Trophies
    BYU 1 > Utah 0

    National HOF Players
    BYU 6 > Utah 0

    AP Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 17 > Utah 8

    11+ Win Seasons
    BYU 11 > Utah 2

    Best QB, Best Passer, Best RB, Best Interior Lineman
    BYU 15 > Utah 0

    All-Time AP Top 100
    #34 BYU > #63 Utah

    WAC/MWC/P12 Championships
    BYU 23 > Utah 6

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 18, 2019 11:25 a.m.

    General Rivalry Thoughts:

    BYU is improving under Sitake. Wilson seems like he could be a good QB. Ty'son Williams could be a very nice, and needed, addition. There are indicators for each of these.

    Utah will be improved as well.

    The rivalry game is generally a close and hard fought game.

    Predicting is fun for both sides. But there is just no way to know if you are right.

    Comparing players, especially ones who have played only a few games or have never played 1 down for your team, seems crazy and childish to me. (My XXX, is better than your's). But we all fall into that trap at times.

    I know Utah football WAY, WAY more than I ever want to know about BYU. That sentiment is shared the other direction from BYU fans as well.

    As such, we are all biased, and 100% convinced our team is better. And we can all justify it.

    It makes a fun rivalry.

    All that said, I will continue to beat the Utah drum (and feather) and share how Utah is better and will win.

    I mean no disrespect. Just promoting my team.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 18, 2019 9:51 a.m.

    @Elkhorn - Loveland, CO
    @LonestarRunner - Salt Lake City, UT

    I was answering a question; "who was the last ranked bowl opponent Utah beat?"

    Bama, Sugar Bowl, 2008 season. I did point out the last BYU bowl win v. a ranked team was 1996, since the individual asking was a BYU fan being snarky. Ironic.

    Since you both wanted to point out things that didn't have anything to do with the actual question. I'll share a couple myself:

    Bama was the highest ranked bowl opponent either of our teams has ever played, let alone beaten.

    Utah has won more bowl games in history than BYU. And beaten a ranked team in a bowl more recently than BYU (by over a decade). Ironic that a BYU fan would ask that.

    Utah holds a 27 game lead in the rivalry.

    As weak as you say Utah and the PAC 12 are......, BYU can't find a way to beat Utah, as dominating as you feel they've been in parts of games v. Utah.

    Since going Indy, BYU hasn't beaten a PAC12 team with a winning record.

    But, yeah, Utah and the PAC 12 are weak.....and BYU isn't? Hu?

    Such irony all around.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    April 18, 2019 6:45 a.m.

    ArizonaUte

    “Utah last beat a ranked opponent in a bowl game after the 2008 season.”

    Utah hasn’t beaten a ranked bowl opponent since joining the PAC 12...

    0-2

    In fact, the best bowl opponent you’ve beaten since 2011...

    is BYU in the Las Vegas bowl,

    after BYU gifted U 5 TD’s in the 1st Q,

    before dominating U the remainder of the game.

  • Elkhorn Loveland, CO
    April 17, 2019 10:14 p.m.

    ArizonaUte

    “Utah last beat a ranked opponent in a bowl game after the 2008 season.”

    A totally disinterested team that didn’t even show up for the game.

    Utah lost to their last two ranked bowl opponents.

  • Elkhorn Loveland, CO
    April 17, 2019 9:57 p.m.

    AZUTE1 - “ZM was All PAC-12 after playing a partial year.....Think about it. He also plays against a significantly tougher SOS than any BYU RB does”

    yawn

    In TWO games versus BYU,

    Moss rushed for 79 yards...

    TOTAL!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 17, 2019 7:08 p.m.

    ZM was All PAC-12 after playing a partial year.....Think about it.

    He also plays against a significantly tougher SOS than any byu-p RB does, yet he’ll still shatter all of their records, IF he remains healthy, period.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 17, 2019 7:03 p.m.

    IF he remains healthy, ZM’ll absolutely blow the doors off everybody & everything, including all-time records, period.

    Beware the ZM show starting on 08/29.

    #9iscoming

    Go Utes!

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 17, 2019 7:00 p.m.

    @ND95CA - Lincoln Park, IL

    Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

    Utah last beat a ranked opponent in a bowl game after the 2008 season.

    BYU last beat a ranked opponent in a bowl game after the 1996 season.

    Those are facts.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 17, 2019 6:56 p.m.

    @Snack PAC - Olympus Cove, Utah - and every other BYU fan who says this....

    "BYU dominated Utah in the first half and would have done so in the second half if two of BYU's key defenders hadn't both been injured."

    -------------

    Both Kaufusi's were in the game for a LONG time and Corbin Kaufusi, never left the game. He was one of the defenders who tried to tackle Shyne on the go-ahead TD run. #90 and name Kaufusi clear as day on the jersey.

    #90 then was seen tackling the RB, who didn't have the ball, in the play Shelley ran for the final TD. There was just over 1:00 left in the entire game.

    Please just stop the echo chamber BYU narrative.

    You need to come up with a new reason as to why BYU lost to Utah last game. Corbin Kaufusi never left due to injury. He played the whole game

    Sorry (not sorry) to blow your narrative out of the water. But facts are facts. Re-watch the 2nd half. Corbin was in the entire game and IK was in probably as much as he normally is in a normal game.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 17, 2019 6:28 p.m.

    @Truth Machine - Salt Lake City, UT
    @ND95CA - Lincoln Park, IL
    @London_josh

    1st, "teams that finish ranked" does mean something. If they become 'un-ranked' after a bowl game it means they were teetering on being ranked in the first place.

    Many team who lose their bowl games still finish ranked. If they don't finish ranked, there is a reason. And there is an entire body of work (season results), used by those who vote.

    The farce is beating a team that was "ranked when you played them". Pitt in 1984 was a classic example. BYU beat #3 ranked Pitt in the first game of the season. That Pitt team won a grand total of 3 games that season. And should never have been ranked. They were literally terrible.

    Ranked at the time means NOTHING.
    Finish ranked means they earned it through the season.

    Utah, with the #26 SOS wasn't in the CFP discussion because they didn't win enough games. The SOS was plenty strong.

    If Utah had been 12-1 they DEFINITELY would have been in the CFP discussion. Not even a question.

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 17, 2019 5:33 p.m.

    Marked it down Utah isn't scared to play anyone 2016 beat Indiana, 2015 beat Michigan, 2014 again beat Michigan, Pitt 2011 and Georgia Tech, MWC 2010 Notre Dame, 2009 Lousisville and Cal 2008 Michigan, and Alabama

    Now Utah plays where they recruit so they can recruit from the frutle California, Texas markets and take their players close so their parents can see them. Upcoming games against San Diego St, Baylor, and Houston according to the graduate assistance I talk to if I am not assisting a player at study hall.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 17, 2019 3:36 p.m.

    I hate the whole "didn't beat anybody who finished ranked" because teams don't finished ranked when beat by other teams.

    How many teams did BYU take a ranking away from? That useless number is more meritous than the circular logic that scores a rival smack point and nothing else.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    April 17, 2019 2:40 p.m.

    ArizonaUte

    "BYU hasn't beaten a ranked team in a bowl since... 1996."

    BYU beat then #16 Oregon State so badly (44-20) in the 2009 Las Vegas Bowl, that it knocked the Beavers out of the final polls,

    but just barely.

    Oregon State finished #26 AP and #27 Coaches (26.5 avg)

    Utah's 2004 Fiesta Bowl opponent, Pittsburgh, finished #25 AP and #28 Coaches (26.5 avg)

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 17, 2019 12:15 p.m.

    Moss had a monstros year last year, good for him. Prior to that he didn't impress me that much, he was good, last year he was great.

    Ty'son might have a good year, but who knows if he's the BYU starting RB?

    I'm fine with people having opinions about the future - it's so funny watching people seek to prove themselves right about a projection.

    I'm at SMU campus today, I'll probably go and take another walk past Doak walker Square in a bit - I don't expect either moss or Williams to win a Doak walker award this year, let's just see what happens and hope they all have good seasons.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    April 17, 2019 12:08 p.m.

    ArizonaUte

    “Utah had the #26 SOS in the nation last yr.”

    Yet, wasn’t even a factor in the CFP conversation, despite winning the PAC South for the first time.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 17, 2019 11:49 a.m.

    @phoenix - Gilbert, AZ

    Your nuances are truly humorous.

    "Do you really think that going to get U a CFP invitation?"

    Did I ever suggest it would? I was answering a question and pointing out that Utah, on the road, beat a P5 team with a better record than Wisconsin had last yr. It just wasn't OOC. Why does OOC make any difference?

    Here is the more humorous one:

    "Utah hasn't beaten a ranked team in a bowl since their upset over disinterested Alabama in 2008."

    BYU hasn't beaten a ranked team in a bowl since... 1996.

    And just so you are aware. Bama in that Sugar Bowl, was the highest ranked opponent either of our teams has ever played in a bowl. Let alone beaten.

    Thanks for reminding me of that Utah, BCS Bowl win.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    April 17, 2019 11:31 a.m.

    Sparkley Briefs

    "Throwing out career yardage stats to prove my opinion is wrong is a fool’s errand, as Moss is competing against tougher competition and still has another season left."

    Standard whiny SOS excuse used by Utah fans to discount any accomplishment before 2011, except, of course, 2004 and 2008, for which SOS is totally irrelevant.

    btw, what's your excuse for Moss averaging less than 40 ypg versus BYU and averaging less than 70 ypg versus San Jose St?

    In his last game versus BYU in 2017, Moss only averaged 1.9 ypg, the 2nd lowest yards per carry average of his career.

    Was that due to SOS also?

    If so, then BYU has a better rushing defense than pretty much every team in the PAC 12.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 17, 2019 11:20 a.m.

    @TroyTown - Anaheim, CA

    Wow, didn't realize this was such a sensitive topic that people got so passionate about.

    Here are some facts:

    USC last yr. had the #41 SOS in the nation.
    Utah had the #26 SOS in the nation last yr. (Clemson's was #25). Yes, Utah's schedule was harder than USC's, based on final SOS.

    It varies yrs. by yr.

    I also find it funny that BYU fans have the prescription, and snarky negative comments, for Utah. Especially given their own situation.

    It's strange having fans of a team who has a perennial SOS is in the high 60's telling Utah how make their schedule better.

    Oh, the irony.

    Utah has 9, set in stone, P5 opponents each yr. (10 if you count BYU as P5 for scheduling purposes).

    BYU averages 4.2 P5 opponents per yr, with 4 being the most likely number (some yrs are more).

    Isn't this a lot like a Stake Athletic Director telling Holmoe how he could do better?

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    April 17, 2019 10:52 a.m.

    I’m not dissing Jamaal Williams, who I think is a tremendous back, but in my opinion, Zach Moss is better. That is based solely on the eyeball test. Throwing out career yardage stats to prove my opinion is wrong is a fool’s errand, as Moss is competing against tougher competition and still has another season left. Was Ty Detmer greater than Tom Brady because he threw for more yards in college? How about one of those good old fashioned Kyle vs Bronco lists again?

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    April 17, 2019 9:54 a.m.

    Arizona Ute

    "Utah plays a minimum of 9, P5 opponents per yr. "

    USC plays a full PAC 12 schedule in 2019,
    plus
    at #5 Notre Dame,
    at bowl winner BYU,
    and versus #18 Fresno St.

    The difference between a big boy program that actually challenges themselves,
    EVERY SEASON,
    and a wannabe big boy who tries to sneak by with the weakest OOC schedule possible, while trying not to look like a total coward by continuing to schedule your century old rival.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 17, 2019 9:42 a.m.

    @Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT

    Ty'son William might end up being a really good RB. That's why you go after him. We have yet to see but the potential is there. And it was definitely a team need.

    Jamaal Williams was a stud. Loved that guy as a human and football player. And I'm a Utah fan...

    Joe Williams at Utah was drafted ahead of Jamaal Williams, in the same draft. So, go figure.

    Zach Moss will likely be a higher draft pick than either of them. So, I'll take the NFL's opinion as to where they spend there $$.

    But that takes nothing away from either Jamaal or Ty'son Williams.

    We are excited about Zach Moss returning. We know what he can do for Utah. BYU has yet to see Ty'son Williams in pads but he could be really good.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    April 17, 2019 9:37 a.m.

    Arizona Ute

    "It may not be an OOC win but Utah beat 9-4 Stanford on the road last yr. Wisconsin finished 8-5.

    Utah plays a minimum of 9, P5 opponents per yr. And it's generally 10 including a bowl game or the rare OOC P5 opponent like Michigan."

    Do you really think that going to get U a CFP invitation?

    And, if not, what difference does it make, on a national scale, how many P5 teams U play.

    Utah hasn't beaten a ranked team in a bowl since their upset over disinterested Alabama in 2008.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    April 17, 2019 9:28 a.m.

    Arizona Ute

    "Does the win also have to be on a Thursday? Do they have to wear a certain color?"

    Nope, just a quality road win against a big name OOC opponent.

    Something that would impress the CFP committee enough to give Utah the nod over the top teams in the SEC, ACC, Big Ten, and Big 12 for that coveted final CFP berth.

    An undefeated or one loss season versus PAC 12 teams isn't going to cut it.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 17, 2019 9:11 a.m.

    @Phoenix

    "When was the last time Utah had an OOC road win against an 8+ win P5 opponent?"

    ------------------

    Does the win also have to be on a Thursday? Do they have to wear a certain color?

    Wisconsin was a very surprising and also good win for BYU.

    But not only are they the only 8+ win P5 opponent BYU has beaten on the road, and correct me if I am wrong, but I think they are actually the ONLY P5 opponent, with a winning record, that BYU has beaten since going Independent.

    So, congrats on that one good win in the last decade. I know that BYU has yet to beat a PAC 12 opponent with 6 or more wins, since going Indy as well.

    But to answer your question:

    It may not be an OOC win but Utah beat 9-4 Stanford on the road last yr. Wisconsin finished 8-5.

    Utah plays a minimum of 9, P5 opponents per yr. And it's generally 10 including a bowl game or the rare OOC P5 opponent like Michigan.

    Last season Utah played 11 games against P5 opponents. And if you consider BYU a P5 for scheduling purposes (and BYU fans do) then Utah played 12 games LAST YR. v. P5 or equivalent, opponents.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 17, 2019 9:09 a.m.

    As far as best single season, Zack won't even come close to passing Doak Walker Award winner Luke Staley

    2001 - 1,596 total yards, nine 100+ games, 31 TD's

    If Luke hadn't suffered a season-ending injury at Mississippi St, BYU may have had an undefeated season in 2001. Staley averaged 9.9 yds/carry versus Utah. He also threw a TD pass versus Utah State.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 17, 2019 8:58 a.m.

    Sparkley Briefs - re: Zach Moss > Any BYU running back since Luke Staley.
    Azute1 - re: Zack Moss very likely will end up the greatest Utah running back of all-time.

    Jamaal Williams - 3,901 career rushing, sixteen 100+ games, two 1200+ seasons
    Harvey Unga - 3,455 career rushing, fifteen 100+ games, three 1000+ seasons
    Curtis Brown - 3,241 career rushing, fifteen 100+ games, two 1000+ seasons
    Zack Moss - 2,651 career rushing, eleven 100+ games, two 1000+ seasons

    Zack will probably pass Curtis Brown, may pass Harvey Unga, but would have to have the best season of his career to pass Jamaal Williams.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 17, 2019 8:24 a.m.

    Wild Ute

    "Star to answer your question about Utah's P5 opponents out of conference on the road. You see Utah is a P5 school and unlike BYU a G5 school Utah is in the Pac 12 and does not have to schedule other P5 schools like BYU."

    Only if the Utes never want to be serious contenders for a CFP berth.

    The truth is, the failed PAC 12 / Big Ten scheduling agreement notwithstanding, Utah is absolutely scared to death to schedule P4 teams like Wisconsin, Oklahoma, LSU, Tennessee, Michigan St, Nebraska, and Texas on the road.

    You'd much rather pad your schedule with Big Sky and bottom tier MWC teams and pretend that you're one of the big boys, when you're really just a middle of the PAC team in the weakest "power" conference.

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 17, 2019 2:27 a.m.

    Star to answer your question about Utah's P5 opponents out of conference on the road. You see Utah is a P5 school and unlike BYU a G5 school Utah is in the Pac12 and does not have to schedule other P5 schools like BYU. We don't have to schedule teams like Tennessee, Washington, and USC. Because we are Utah and will already play teams like USC and Washington.

    That is why Utah can schedule teams like BYU, NIU, and Idaho St. Cupcakes to get the wrinkles out before playing real football. But thanks for being concerned about who Utah plays.

    Because Utah will play other P5 teams in their bowl game like Alabama, WVU, Indiana, and Northwestern unlike BYU who plays in the potatoes bowl against Western Michigan. If I was BYU I would decline that bowl but you are BYU.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    April 17, 2019 12:01 a.m.

    azute1

    “Zack Moss very likely will end up the greatest Utah running back of all-time.

    ZM only needs 569 yards to break [Utah’s] all-time career rushing record.”

    Yet, at 2,651 yards,
    ZM is still 1,250 yards shy
    of Jamaal Williams’ career rushing record of
    3,901 yards.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 16, 2019 10:09 p.m.

    Azute1

    Despite your spin

    1,200+ yard rushing seasons
    JW - TWO
    ZM - NONE

    Total rushing yards
    JW - 3,901
    ZM - 2,651

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 16, 2019 9:47 p.m.

    AZUTE1 - “BYU has never beaten a PAC-12 opponent at or above .500...”

    Since when is the PAC 12 the standard of excellence?

    BYU beat Wisconsin (8-5) at Camp Randall last season.

    When was the last time Utah beat an 8+ win OOC P5 on the road?

    Still doesn’t change the fact that Jamaal Williams is better than Zack Moss, and Ty’Son Williams could also be better than Moss.

    Although not a running back, Taysom Hill was a better runner than any RB in Utah history.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 16, 2019 7:40 p.m.

    JackRyan:
    "And for a few of the less informed on here that somehow are using this thread as a way to slam Moss at Utah..."

    I think it's human nature to fight fire with fire. When U fans come in here dissing Ty'Son Williams and then bring Moss up (even though some [john in slc] seem confused about who brought it up) Y fans are bound to respond in kind.

    But I agree Moss is a good back, though I stand behind what I said last year, he's not a great back. I think both Moss and T-dub probably aren't as good as their fanbases are suggesting (again that's human nature). It would seem Moss has taken greater advantage of his opportunity since HS than Ty'Son so far, but I hope T-dub can figure some things out this year. I am excited to see how he and ZW do this year...though I've learned how to manage my expectations for BYU these days.

    Good luck to TH and ZM as well. Cheers

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 16, 2019 7:30 p.m.

    “Devontae Booker, Joe Williams, Zack Moss. Utah's last three 1,000 yard rushers. Utah's last three star ball carriers. Utah's first trio of running backs to be drafted into the NFL in succession? Think about that for a second.

    Utah's running back stable is the strongest and healthiest it's ever been in the program's history. Zack Moss returns for his senior season, with eyes locked on Eddie Johnson's all-time career rushing yards record of 3,219 yards, and the potential for All-American accolades.

    ZM’s played 32 games in his career and has totaled 2,651 yards and 24 touchdowns. He's one of four players in Utah history with two 1,000-yard seasons, and would become the first player ever with three 1,000-yard seasons if he hits that mark again this year. After earning second-team All-Pac-12 accolades despite an injury-shortened 2018 season, he's now a contender for All-America honors and national awards as he prepares for his senior season. It's important that people understand just how good he is...

    Zack Moss very likely will end up the greatest Utah running back of all-time.

    ZM only needs 569 yards to break the all-time career rushing record.”

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 16, 2019 7:04 p.m.

    byu-p has never beaten a PAC-12 opponent at or above .500....They went 1-3 last year & have an overall record of 5-13.

    Since byu-p can’t beat PAC-12 opponents w/a winning record & play against 3 such this year, it’s logical to conclude their overall record’ll move to 5-16.....How utterly pitiful.

    Keep on dissing THE PAC-12, because it only makes byu-p look that much worse.

    PAC-12 owns byu-p, period.

    #9iscoming

    Go Utes!

    p.s. ZM has been dominant during his U career & the posted #s here are blatantly inaccurate, period.

    He’s w/in a short distance of becoming our all-time rushing leader & we’ve had some serious horses come through our program over the years, period.

  • JackRyanSLC Salt Lake City, UT
    April 16, 2019 3:40 p.m.

    New BYU RB looks legit...I'm excited to see BYU get him. That along with they Hype around Wilson should have Utah motivated and ready to play.

    And for a few of the less informed on here that somehow are using this thread as a way to slam Moss at Utah...you may want to look at real numbers...many of you are throwing around inaccurate numbers...here are the actual numbers for Moss last year in PAC12 conference games before he got hurt: 128, 211, 136, 68, 160. Not that it matters...but if you want to take shots, at least do it accurately...and BTW, do your research...most Utah players that ended up going big are generally not highly toughted kids out of high school. Moss has worked each year to make his body. BYU's experience with guys like Heaps and Mangum would normally get people to not read to much into star rankings out of high school being a guarantee of D1 P5 performance.

  • CougfromIndy Indianapolis, IN
    April 16, 2019 2:21 p.m.

    Tyson Williams will give BYU the depth they need at RB to get a win in at home against Utah and possibly go undefeated for the rest of the season (given a miracle versus Washington) especially with Zach Wilson at QB

    Go Cougs

  • Y's little brother Sandy, UT
    April 16, 2019 12:16 p.m.

    london_josh

    re: “Utah #16 > Utah State #33 > BYU #51”

    That's your fantasy!

    The last poll before Utah lost 2 in a row in ugly fashion, right?

    ——

    Preseason, midseason, post regular season, season final... doesn’t matter...

    Utemythology will use whichever poll that ranks Utah highest.

    It doesn’t even matter whether it’s a major poll,

    or a minor poll taken amongst friends in a basement somewhere.

  • gchris Rock Springs, WY
    April 16, 2019 11:56 a.m.

    After scrolling through 70+ "my dad can whip your dad" comments, I found about five that spoke to the issue. BYU is thin at running back. Hopefully this guy will make a difference. If the season ends like last year's, BYU will need him.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 16, 2019 11:05 a.m.

    Uteology,

    "That's not reality, that's your fantasy

    Utah #16 > Utah State #33 > BYU #51"

    That's your fantasy!

    The last poll before Utah lost 2 in a row in ugly fashion, right?

    So our "final poll" is whatever ranked Utah highest?

    USU was the best football team in the state last year based on ranking. And while byu lost both local games, you can't use utah's numbers prior to their final losses to show them ending up superior to a team that they finished ranked far below.

    Post where the teams finished.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    April 16, 2019 9:35 a.m.

    Sparkley Briefs - Zach Moss > Any BYU running back since Luke Staley.

    LOL!

    Jamaal Williams is head and shoulders better than Zack Moss

    TWO 1,200+ yard rushing seasons > NONE
    3,901 total rushing yards > 2,651

    Moss will have to have his best season ever just to catch Jamaal in total rushing yards.

    And let's not forget, Jamaal is now playing on Sundays, proving that he can do it against NFL caliber defenses, not just the weak defenses of the PAC 12.

    And now, there's Ty'Son Williams, who is just getting started at BYU.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 16, 2019 8:24 a.m.

    Sparkley Briefs - "Zach Moss > Any BYU running back since Luke Staley."

    That's nothing but Ute fan hype.

    Zach Moss hasn't even rushed for 100+ yards in 20 of his 30 games played.

    Versus BYU, he's averaged less than 40 yards rushing.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 16, 2019 7:40 a.m.

    Wild Ute - Here is reality for BYU fans:

    "Shelley and Huntley greater then Wilson."

    Nope!

    "Both have beaten BYU."

    Irrelevant for 2019.

    "Utah was using the BYU game as a warm up game for the PAC 12 Championship."

    A complete lie.

    "Talking to a lot of the Ute players during class they didn't watch film on BYU all week and only spent one practice preparing for BYU."

    Another complete lie.

    BYU dominated Utah in the first half and would have done so in the second half if two of BYU's key defenders hadn't both been injured.

    Utah was extremely lucky that they didn't finish 2018 on a three-game losing streak.

  • Sparkley Briefs New York, NY
    April 16, 2019 6:46 a.m.

    Zach Moss > Any BYU running back since Luke Staley. Enjoy Fantasty Land time until number 9 shows up with your annual dose-of-reality bitter pill.

  • TroyTown Anaheim, CA
    April 16, 2019 6:14 a.m.

    utemythology

    “That's not reality, that's your fantasy.

    Utah #16 > Utah State #33 > BYU #51

    BYU 2019: 5-7 wins”

    Your fantasy is believing that every preseason poll that favors Utah is cast in stone.

    The reality will be...

    16 BYU > 32 USU > 52 Utah

    Utah 2019: 5-7 wins

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 16, 2019 3:58 a.m.

    Here is reality for BYU fans Shelley and Huntley greater then Wilson. Both have beaten BYU. Utah was using the BYU game as a warm up game for the PAC12 Championship. Talking to a lot of the Ute players during class they didn't watch film on BYU all week and only spent one practice preparing for BYU. They still beat BYU and scored 28 points in 16 minutes of play. So close but still so far away BYU fans.

    Now Utah and their coaches know Wilson can run and like the 4th quarter of last year's game he will be running for his life come fall.

    Your new back can't hold a candle to Moss who thrives on the P5 level. Your back had a little over 300 yards on 70 carries an avg of 4.1 ypc and a lousy 4 TDS. Moss was a work horse 179 carries over a 1000 yards and 6.2 ypc and 10 TDS. BYU fans celebrating mediocrity with their new back. Utah fans know superiority with their 4 proven backs.

    8 and counting BYU fans don't worry 9 is on its way this fall Utah is and always will be football in the State of Utah. BYU will have a few good years using a gimmick offense.

  • TrueBlue Provo, UT
    April 15, 2019 11:55 p.m.

    london_josh: “Why are we discussing Moss?”

    JohnInSLC: "Because one of your fellow Cougars brought him up. And you call Ute fans obsessed. Hahahaha!"

    First mention of Moss (by one of John's fellow BYU obsessed Utah fans) - seriously, U can't make this stuff up:

    CO Ute - , 00
    April 15, 2019 4:30 a.m.
    Worth the risk to take a flyer on this kid for BYU. On paper he has more talent than any of their other RBs. Is it too early for the many of posters to start predicting that Utah will be a .500 team this year and BYU will win the opener? For the record, I will take Huntley and Moss over Wilson and Williams as well as the U defense over the Y defense but that is just my opinion.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    April 15, 2019 11:37 p.m.

    utemythology

    "...why would I watch highlights of a RB that no one has ever heard of?"

    To prove that you're actually making a rationale evaluation, rather than just spouting vacuous drivel.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 15, 2019 11:08 p.m.

    Uteology:
    "About this time last year didn't you say you would take Mangum and Canada over Huntley and Moss?"

    Nope! Yet another made up myth...you really take living up to your nickname seriously don't you? Go ahead, go back and dig up the archive, myth. U won't find me stating I'd take Mangum and Canada over Huntley and Moss anywhere. How embarrassing.

    Now I do remember trying to walk back your love fest with Moss by comparing him to elite RB talent at UGA, but U got all offended like I'd stolen your candy and started suggesting SI writers knew more about talent than recruiters and coaches. Hilarious...good times, myth.

  • deductive reasoning Arlington, VA
    April 15, 2019 10:58 p.m.

    Just to reiterate to our crimson goggles wearing friends on the hill...

    Here’s reality:

    Zach Wilson > Tyler Huntley

    Ty’Son Williams > Zach Moss

    BYU > Utah in 2019

    Mark it down!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 10:51 p.m.

    skywalker - Palo Alto, CA
    April 15, 2019 6:44 p.m.
    Utemythology obviously hasn’t watched a single second of Ty’Son’s 2017-18 highlights and totally ignored Huntley’s FCS Weber St performance versus Wilson’s FBS WMU performance.

    Here’s reality:

    Zach Wilson > Tyler Huntley

    Ty’Son Williams > Zach Moss

    BYU > Utah in 2019

    -------

    That's not reality, that's your fantasy.

    Utah #16 > Utah State #33 > BYU #51

    BYU 2019: 5-7 wins

    Was his highlights on SportsCenter? No, then, why would I watch highlights of a RB that no one has ever heard of?

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 15, 2019 10:31 p.m.

    John,

    So unprovoked you just rushed in to defend the honor of the mighty Utes as byu fans kept bringing them up?

    I'm not sure it happened that way, but how noble of you.

    Good thing you aren't obsessed enough to just hover over the conversation to see when moss's name was taken in vain.

    But for giggles I did scroll down to see where moss enters the picture, I could be wrong but it seems like Utah fans just trying to make this about themselves.

    Utah has stories also - but not much conversation going on there.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    April 15, 2019 8:05 p.m.

    “Why are we discussing Moss?”

    london-josh-er:

    Because one of your fellow coogies broght him up.

    And you call Ute fans obsessed. Hahahaha!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 15, 2019 7:36 p.m.

    “Here’s reality:

    Zach Wilson > Tyler Huntley

    Ty’Son Williams > Zach Moss

    BYU > Utah in 2019”

    Nope!

    That’s called byu-p fan’s alternate reality.

    Can’t wait to put a smashing end to all this vacuous tripe on 08/29.

    Go Utes!

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 15, 2019 7:33 p.m.

    “Congratulations on being top 15 against the run in the worst P5 division in America. Guess who else was top 15 against the run: Southern Miss, SDSU, Charlotte, Marshall, Army, No Illinois, and Cincinnati. That's some mighty physical company...I'm sure T-dub would have struggled to stay healthy against them as well haha!”

    Where the SOS rankings of these teams, including our #26 ranked SOS?

    Go Utes!

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 15, 2019 7:12 p.m.

    Why are we discussing Moss?

    Just a way for Utah fans to get in comments, and not pay attention to the new of their scrimmage which has an article about passes made and a whole 3 comments on it.

    Moss looks good - which one of you Ute fans takes credit for his transformation?

    But this is about BYU's new running back - great grab for BYU.

    anyway Uties - enjoy your comments, especially the ones about not being obsessed with all things BYU, and how you absolutely know that Moss will have a better year than Willaims, who might not even start at BYU - again, that nasty obsession.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 15, 2019 6:44 p.m.

    Utemythology obviously hasn’t watched a single second of Ty’Son’s 2017-18 highlights and totally ignored Huntley’s FCS Weber St performance versus Wilson’s FBS WMU performance.

    Here’s reality:

    Zach Wilson > Tyler Huntley

    Ty’Son Williams > Zach Moss

    BYU > Utah in 2019

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 6:21 p.m.

    Bluto - Sandy, UT
    April 15, 2019 5:20 p.m.
    @ WildUte

    There is nothing systemically magical about being a P-5 player from Utah or any other University, save the Blue-Bloods, of which "U" certainly are not..

    Where are your Championships, Utah?
    None of Utah's running backs would start in the SEC, including USC.

    ------

    None of BYU's running backs would start at MWC, including T-Dub.

    OUCH!

  • Farmington Fan Farmington, UT
    April 15, 2019 6:18 p.m.

    Excellent news for BYU fans. Hopefully, both Ty'Son Williams and Emmanuel Esukpa can adjust quickly to playing at BYU and both be productive this season. From watching their highlight clips, both running backs appear to be more talented than any of the running backs BYU had last season.

    Lopini Kotoa still looks like he could develop into a very good back, along with a couple of other current younger BYU players. But, having Williams and Esukpa on the team could give the Cougar offense a jump-start while the coaching staff develops the younger running backs.

  • Whatsnu Sandy, UT
    April 15, 2019 5:38 p.m.

    Wild Ute

    “Yet Moss played for a P5 team Williams sat on the bench for a P5 team and had to transfer to an independent G5 team.”

    Yawn

    Moss played against Pac 12 defenses, yet didn’t even break 100 yards rushing in 20 of his 30 games played. Zach averaged less than 40 yards rushing versus BYU.

    Ty’Son played against SEC defenses and spent much of his career battling injuries. When healthy, he’s an amazing runner.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 5:31 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    April 15, 2019 1:13 p.m.
    Mythology:
    "No I don't care about SEC, I am Ute I don't have a Team B."

    Yes you do...you come crawling to every article about them and are probably more obsessed with them than your "Team A".

    ------

    That would make UGA is your Team C. SAD!

    About this time last year didn't you say you would take Mangum and Canada over Huntley and Moss?

    Let me guess, this year it's Wilson and T-Dub?

    T-Dub wouldn't be a 4th string Utah, Wilson 3rd.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    April 15, 2019 5:20 p.m.

    @ WildUte

    There is nothing systemically magical about being a P-5 player from Utah or any other University, save the Blue-Bloods, of which "U" certainly are not..

    Where are your Championships, Utah?
    None of Utah's running backs would start in the SEC, including USC.

    "U" don't even go out from your comfort zone i.e. the worst P-5 Conference...Pac-12.

    But we enjoy your False Bravado anyway.

    Go on the road and play a Memphis, Central Florida, Houston or Boise St.

  • Wild Ute Sandy, UT
    April 15, 2019 4:53 p.m.

    Yet Moss played for a P5 team Williams sat on the bench for a P5 team and had to transfer to an independent G5 team.

    Moss is still the better back and Utah has 3 back ups capable of starting for a P5 team BYU has 1 rejected P5 player. Have fun on a below average team while Moss competes for a Pac12 championship.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    April 15, 2019 4:49 p.m.

    KimmyP - Grantsville, UT
    April 15, 2019 3:59 p.m.
    This will put BYU over the hump. They will likely be undefeated this year, or at least qualify for the CFP with a 11-1 record.

    We’ll see.

  • KimmyP Grantsville, UT
    April 15, 2019 3:59 p.m.

    This will put BYU over the hump. They will likely be undefeated this year, or at least qualify for the CFP with a 11-1 record. 👍

  • Cougarbib2 Moorpark, CA
    April 15, 2019 2:42 p.m.

    Welcome to BYU. Should be a fun year.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    April 15, 2019 2:30 p.m.

    So, just to review:

    BYU's latest recruit: Ty'Son Williams - 4-star recruit, the 21st best RB in the country
    Utah's best RB: Zach Moss - 3-star recruit, the 68th best RB in the country

    *per 247Sports

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 15, 2019 1:22 p.m.

    No P4 conference cares about U

    There is no debate now, the Cougars have just as much chance of going to the playoffs as the Utes!

    Surely, with one SEC player on BYU's team, BYU has an infinitely better chance of beating an SEC on the road than Utah.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 15, 2019 1:13 p.m.

    Mythology:
    "No I don't care about SEC, I am Ute I don't have a Team B."

    Yes you do...you come crawling to every article about them and are probably more obsessed with them than your "Team A".

    No U don't care about CFB outside your crimson bubble or your blue obsession. U really didn't need to say it, we can all see that with every post U make.

  • Marked it Down Park City, UT
    April 15, 2019 1:11 p.m.

    utemythology

    "Zack Moss will be playing on Sundays."

    The is the resume of an NFL RB, averaging less than 40 yards/game rushing versus BYU and failing to break the 100-yard barrier in 20 of his 30 games?

    Ariz - 68
    Wash - 67
    NIU - 66
    Wash - 55
    WSU - 32
    Ore - 53
    ASU - 49
    Stan - 79
    Ariz - 73
    SJSU - 43
    BYU - 21
    Colo - 17
    Ore - 9
    ASU - 11
    Wash - 11
    UCLA - 6
    Cal - 66
    USC - 90
    SJSU - 95
    BYU - 58

  • No Conference Will Take Us Seattle, WA
    April 15, 2019 1:09 p.m.

    There is no debate now.
    The Cougars are going to the playoffs!
    Surely with one SEC player on our team. We can take on Alabama and Clemson.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    April 15, 2019 11:33 a.m.

    No doubt, the east have the best football and basketball athletes.

    This will be a great addition for the Cougs!

  • CougFaninTX Spring, TX
    April 15, 2019 11:33 a.m.

    I really thought U would move on and the rivalry would lose a little more significance each year. But this proves U are still obsessed with all things BYU.

    More Utes post about a RB transfer from SC to BYU, than about the Red and White scrimmage on the hill. More posts on BYU than a large windfall of money for expansion of the stadium. More posts than have ever appeared on a Buffs article, who U claim is your new rival.

    Love that the rivalry lives on. Even though U have the Ws the past decade, all but two games have been nail biter finishes. One Max Hall miracle in each of those games and the Cougs would be riding a decade of wins. Maybe this will be our year to turn it around?!?! Hope this Williams is as good as the last one.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    April 15, 2019 11:20 a.m.

    utemythology

    "Utah was interested vs BYU 1st half, we took care of business in 2nd half."

    NOPE!

    Utah only began to "take care of business" AFTER both Kaufusi's were injured.

    It had NOTHING to do with Utah being "interested", in fact, Whittingham preaches from day one to new players the importance of beating BYU.

    The fact that Utah fans constantly troll EVERY BYU article is proof enough of how interested you are in all things BYU.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    April 15, 2019 11:13 a.m.

    "So beating a 8+ team at LES isn't a quality win according to you?

    I agree, we should cancel the game and add a P5 team."

    Why?

    There's absolutely no evidence that Utah can beat quality 8+ win OOC P5 opponents on the road.

    In fact, there's only scant evidence, that Utah can beat quality 8+ win PAC 12 opponents on the road.

    Utah is 3-14 in such games since joining the PAC 12.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    April 15, 2019 11:02 a.m.

    Will be a awesome year this year.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    April 15, 2019 10:57 a.m.

    utemythology

    "Utah doesn't play OOC P5 opponents, so why does it matter."

    After watching Utah's meltdown against their first quality P5 bowl opponent since joining the PAC 12,

    it's easy to see why.

    Which makes all of the Ute fan chest pounding about being a CFP contender,

    all the more laughable.

    The fact that you're bragging about pulling off a squeaker at NIU as your best OOC road win in ages, says it all.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 10:37 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    April 15, 2019 10:11 a.m.
    Myth:
    "Ask Nick Saban about Utah's powder pac front 7 where his team rushed for 33 yards on 31 carries. The same Bama team that put 129 yards on 45 carries against your mighty Team B defense from the SEC."

    Again, Bama's disinterested Sugar Bowl over a decade ago has what exactly to do with the discussion now? You do realize that, unlike 2007-08, they've had the #1 recruiting class 7 of the last 8 years? Over the last 5 years, 4 out of the top 5 avg recruiting classes have been SEC (that's the talent T-dub has been running against).

    ------

    Again, Utah and Washington have nationally ranked defenses in 2018.

    Disinterested is why Bama only ran for 31 yards? SMH

    Utah was interested vs BYU 1st half, we took care of business in 2nd half.

    T-Dub biggest games were against D2 teams, he even struggled against Virgina.

    No I don't care about SEC, I am Ute I don't have a Team B.

  • Gandalph Sandy, UT
    April 15, 2019 10:32 a.m.

    utemythology

    "Zack Moss will be playing on Sundays."

    That's your opinion,

    but it still doesn't change the fact that

    Moss has averaged less than 40 yds/gm vs BYU.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 10:23 a.m.

    ND95CA - Lincoln Park, IL
    April 15, 2019 8:38 a.m.
    phoenix

    "When was the last time Utah had an OOC road win against an 8+ win P5 opponent?"

    1994 - Utah (10-2) at Oregon (9-4) - 34-16

    Unfortunately, Utah lost

    at New Mexico (5-7) - 21-23,
    and
    at Air Force (8-4) - 33-40,

    thus, failing to win their first conference championship since 1964.

    -----

    So beating a 8+ team at LES isn't a quality win according to you?

    I agree, we should cancel the game and add a P5 team.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 10:20 a.m.

    phoenix - Gilbert, AZ
    April 15, 2019 8:06 a.m.
    Arizona Ute

    "BYU went 1-3 v. the PAC12 last yr."

    Yawn...

    BYU had a road win, two very close losses, and a decisive loss to a team that beat U TWICE.

    But, let's not forget, BYU also beat Wisconsin at Camp Randall, a MUCH more physical team than Utah.

    Versus Northwestern, Wisconsin had 165 yards rushing; Utah only managed 91 yards.

    When was the last time Utah had an OOC road win against an 8+ win P5 opponent?

    -----

    Didn't Utah beat NIU on the road and Hismen Wilson couldn't even score a TD at home?

    PAC-12 Utah doesn't play OOC P5 opponents, so why does it matter.

    When was the last time BYU beat a PAC-12 team with 6+ wins?

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    April 15, 2019 10:16 a.m.

    I can understand all the optimism and enthusiasm generated by this news. When your 2019 recruiting class rank is #100 on Rivals, this running back is probably the best football player they have signed in a year.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 15, 2019 10:11 a.m.

    Myth:
    "Ask Nick Saban about Utah's powder pac front 7 where his team rushed for 33 yards on 31 carries. The same Bama team that put 129 yards on 45 carries against your mighty Team B defense from the SEC."

    Again, Bama's disinterested Sugar Bowl over a decade ago has what exactly to do with the discussion now? You do realize that, unlike 2007-08, they've had the #1 recruiting class 7 of the last 8 years? Over the last 5 years, 4 out of the top 5 avg recruiting classes have been SEC (that's the talent T-dub has been running against).

    Then U dis UGA (oh sorry, I mean "my team B" lol) for giving up 2.9 yards a carry against a Bama team that was actually playing for something and cared...again, over a decade ago? Good one!

    Congratulations on being top 15 against the run in the worst P5 division in America. Guess who else was top 15 against the run: Southern Miss, SDSU, Charlotte, Marshall, Army, No Illinois, and Cincinnati. That's some mighty physical company...I'm sure T-dub would have struggled to stay healthy against them as well haha!

  • Gandalph Sandy, UT
    April 15, 2019 10:11 a.m.

    @ AZUTE1

    "BYU might have a shot against Tennessee, but zero shot at beating any PAC-12 opponents, since all three will finish the year w/winning records & that’s the sort they never beat."

    Remind us the last time Utah won a road game against an SEC team.

    Hint: NEVER

    Utah hasn't beaten an OOC P5 opponent with 8+ wins since 1994.

    In fact, that may be Utah's only OOC P5 win against an opponent with 8+ wins in Utah's entire history.

    Beating quality OOC opponents on the road is the sort of thing Utah almost never does.

    It's much easier to pull off an occassional road upset against a conference opponent who may be caught napping looking ahead to their next opponent.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 10:11 a.m.

    Aunty Mythology - Monrovia, CA
    April 15, 2019 9:25 a.m.
    utemythology

    "...ask T-dub why he struggled to break a 100 yards rushing against Coastal Carolina and Virginia..."

    Ask Zach Moss why he struggled to break a 100 yards rushing against...

    Ariz - 68
    Wash - 67
    NIU - 66
    Wash - 55
    WSU - 32
    Ore - 53
    ASU - 49
    Stan - 79
    Ariz - 73
    SJSU - 43
    BYU - 21
    Colo - 17
    Ore - 9
    ASU - 11
    Wash - 11
    UCLA - 6
    Cal - 66
    USC - 90
    SJSU - 95
    BYU - 58

    Zach has average less than 40 yards / game versus BYU.
    In 20 of his 30 games played, he's failed to rush for 100+ yards.

    -------

    Zack Moss will be playing on Sundays.

    Next!

  • Mark321 Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 15, 2019 9:58 a.m.

    @ AZUTE1

    "byu-p might have a shot against Tennessee, but zero shot at beating any PAC-12 opponents, since all three will finish the year w/winning records & that’s the sort they never beat."

    Why is it that there are many Ute fans who think the PAC 12 is bigger and better than what they really are? Smh. You need to listen to Dennis Dodd's evaluation of the PAC 12 in the national picture. It's not good. And yes many BYU fans also think they are bigger and better than they really, but Utah fans get on byu fans for the same ignorance that they themselves suffer from.
    are.

  • northern_lights Layton, UT
    April 15, 2019 9:48 a.m.

    Ty'Son is the real deal when he's healthy, probably better than Zach Moss.

    BYU's thin RB corp has gotten considerably better and deeper with the addition of Ty'Son Williams and Emmanuel Esukpa.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 15, 2019 9:39 a.m.

    utemythology

    "I think Jamal Williams never had a 100 yard game against PAC-12."

    Zach Moss hasn't even averaged 40 yards per game versus BYU.

  • SportsFan Provo, UT
    April 15, 2019 9:34 a.m.

    Aunty Mythology

    "Ask Zach Moss why he struggled to break a 100 yards rushing against..."

    Stop bringing up facts that don't support utemythology's latest fables,

    they'll only confuse him.

  • Aunty Mythology Monrovia, CA
    April 15, 2019 9:25 a.m.

    utemythology

    "...ask T-dub why he struggled to break a 100 yards rushing against Coastal Carolina and Virginia..."

    Ask Zach Moss why he struggled to break a 100 yards rushing against...

    Ariz - 68
    Wash - 67
    NIU - 66
    Wash - 55
    WSU - 32
    Ore - 53
    ASU - 49
    Stan - 79
    Ariz - 73
    SJSU - 43
    BYU - 21
    Colo - 17
    Ore - 9
    ASU - 11
    Wash - 11
    UCLA - 6
    Cal - 66
    USC - 90
    SJSU - 95
    BYU - 58

    Zach has average less than 40 yards / game versus BYU.
    In 20 of his 30 games played, he's failed to rush for 100+ yards.

  • bemorefair , 00
    April 15, 2019 9:08 a.m.

    I will say this. If this kid is healthy, he will add quality depth to BYU's RB rotation.

    BYU has a legitimate chance of having a successful year, which, given the difficulty of the schedule, would be 7 wins. Anything above that has to be considered wildly successful.

    I feel like BYU finally has all the right ingredients for a very successful football season. I'm excited for the future of BYU football.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    April 15, 2019 8:57 a.m.

    utemythology

    "Ask Nick Saban about Utah's powder pac front 7 where his team rushed for 33 yards on 31 carries"

    Why?

    The disinterested 2008 Alabama team is totally irrelevant today.

    The 2018 Alabama team would have CRUSHED U!

    --------------

    It's absolutely hysterical how predictable our little friends on the hill are.

    If Ty'son was transferring to Utah, he'd be a
    4-star RB, the 21st best RB in the country,
    even better than, Zach Moss, who is only a
    3-star RB, the 68th best RB in the country.

  • SCCougar LEXINGTON, SC
    April 15, 2019 8:43 a.m.

    This kid is legit. I've seen him play a good bit at SC. When he was healthy he was really good. Hopefully he stays healthy and fits in well at BYU.

  • ND95CA Lincoln Park, IL
    April 15, 2019 8:38 a.m.

    phoenix

    "When was the last time Utah had an OOC road win against an 8+ win P5 opponent?"

    1994 - Utah (10-2) at Oregon (9-4) - 34-16

    Unfortunately, Utah lost

    at New Mexico (5-7) - 21-23,
    and
    at Air Force (8-4) - 33-40,

    thus, failing to win their first conference championship since 1964.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    April 15, 2019 8:06 a.m.

    Arizona Ute

    "BYU went 1-3 v. the PAC12 last yr."

    Yawn...

    BYU had a road win, two very close losses, and a decisive loss to a team that beat U TWICE.

    But, let's not forget, BYU also beat Wisconsin at Camp Randall, a MUCH more physical team than Utah.

    Versus Northwestern, Wisconsin had 165 yards rushing; Utah only managed 91 yards.

    When was the last time Utah had an OOC road win against an 8+ win P5 opponent?

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 15, 2019 7:51 a.m.

    @Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT

    If your new RB was a high 4* out of HS, good on him. Sounds like he could be a good one.

    Nice pick up.

    Utah fans don't change recruiting rankings to suite our desires. Fact is Utah plays a LOT of top QB and top RBs in the coarse of the season. Good on BYU for filling an area of need.

    You have to make a game plan for everyone you play. Utah will be ready.

    Hope for BYU's sake that this 4* kid out of HS lives up to his potential. Game #1 will be tough.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 7:21 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    April 14, 2019 10:05 p.m.
    Ghost Writer:
    "Looking at the front end of the 2019 schedule, things could get pretty brutal injury-wise.
    But Go Cougars."

    That's more an indictment on BYU's line and lack of depth at that position. Hopefully they can get better line play this season. Doesn't really change the fact that there's no comparison in physicality between SEC front 7s and Powder Pac and G5 front 7s. Just ask T-dub when the season is done, he'll tell you.

    -------------

    Ask Nick Saban about Utah's powder pac front 7 where his team rushed for 33 yards on 31 carries. The same Bama team that put 129 yards on 45 carries against your mighty Team B defense from the SEC.

    Utah and Washington had top 15 rush defenses in 2018. Utah even played a #26 SOS.

    Why wait, ask T-dub why he struggled to break a 100 yards rushing against Coastal Carolina and Virginia. He has 0 games rushing for a 100+ yards.

  • CO Ute , 00
    April 15, 2019 4:30 a.m.

    Worth the risk to take a flyer on this kid for BYU. On paper he has more talent than any of their other RBs.
    Is it too early for the many of posters to start predicting that Utah will be a .500 team this year and BYU will win the opener? For the record, I will take Huntley and Moss over Wilson and Williams as well as the U defense over the Y defense but that is just my opinion.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    April 15, 2019 12:10 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    April 14, 2019 5:27 p.m.
    Welcome T-dub! High-rated 4-star guy out of high school (90+ rating), but had difficulty staying healthy at USCjr.

    Should be able to stay healthier against less talented G5 and Pac12 teams out west than the SEC defenses he faced in '17 and '18.

    -----

    Utah played a #26 SOS, Rush Defense #5.
    Washington #15 Rush Defense.

    When was the last time a BYU RB had 100 yards vs Utah?

    I think Jamal Williams never had a 100 yard game against PAC-12.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    April 14, 2019 10:56 p.m.

    Well, there went my walk on chance!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 14, 2019 10:05 p.m.

    Ghost Writer:
    "Looking at the front end of the 2019 schedule, things could get pretty brutal injury-wise.
    But Go Cougars."

    That's more an indictment on BYU's line and lack of depth at that position. Hopefully they can get better line play this season. Doesn't really change the fact that there's no comparison in physicality between SEC front 7s and Powder Pac and G5 front 7s. Just ask T-dub when the season is done, he'll tell you.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    April 14, 2019 9:59 p.m.

    @Old But Not Stupid - Moorpark, CA

    Do you realize what your argument means for your own team?

    BYU went 1-3 v. the PAC12 last yr. The win? A team that finished with a losing record. Arizona = no bowl game

    So, if BYU can't beat, even decent PAC 12 opponents, and decent PAC 12 teams can't win their bowl games?

    Where does that leave BYU in the greater college football landscape?

    Yeah, if I were you, I wouldn't continue to pursue that argument.

    Mangum went 3-3 beating 2 P5 teams, losing to two teams that finished ranked.
    Wilson went 3-3 beating 3 of the 4 worst teams on BYU's schedule and lost to a MAC team in Provo.

    Mangum didn't lose any games Wilson would have won. And Mangum wouldn't have lost any games Wilson won.

    Glad BYU got 2 needed RBs. Should really help. Good luck.

  • water rocket , 00
    April 14, 2019 9:43 p.m.

    I simply don't understand why the BYU coaches continue to place so much emphasis on the run game and so little on the passing. Didn't they learn a single thing from the bowl game? Good grief, another subpar season is coming up. I hope Sitaki and crew have their resume's up to date.

  • Cougar Claws Lindon, UT
    April 14, 2019 9:06 p.m.

    Now if the line can just block for him . . . we might have a running game.

  • Lone*Star Austin, TX
    April 14, 2019 9:00 p.m.

    azute1

    “No matter, our front-7 is going to absolutely eat their RBs alive.”

    LOL!

    Dream on...

    Utah’s front 7 couldn’t even eat alive BYU’s true Freshman QB and 5th string RB last season.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    April 14, 2019 8:58 p.m.

    Azute-
    What was the great PAC 12's record in their bowl games?

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    April 14, 2019 8:13 p.m.

    No matter, our front-7 is going to absolutely eat their RBs alive.

    byu-p might have a shot against Tennessee, but zero shot at beating any PAC-12 opponents, since all three will finish the year w/winning records & that’s the sort they never beat.

    Go Utes!

  • so there you go ,
    April 14, 2019 7:41 p.m.

    Nothing like telling your current RB's they most likely will not play much this year. BYU just got their starting RB's in the " not happy to be with my old team" portal.

  • Ghost Writer GILBERT, AZ
    April 14, 2019 7:33 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs -- I watched the highlight video from last season and it was striking how the team that ended the year was a completely different unit than the one that started the year, mostly due to injuries. Looking at the front end of the 2019 schedule, things could get pretty brutal injury-wise.
    But Go Cougars.

  • Y Ask Y Provo, UT
    April 14, 2019 7:19 p.m.

    Sitake seems to have gone deep into the NCAA "pick-a- part" yard to salvage some used parts for his football machine.

    He better have some brilliant mechanics on the coaching staff, let is gonna be a long, broken-down season!

    Here's hoping for the best!

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    April 14, 2019 7:05 p.m.

    I think we can stop being worried about the RB situation - this gives our QBs ample weapons to keep the defense honest.

    Huge get for BYU.

  • Caddis Terry, MT
    April 14, 2019 7:02 p.m.

    Nice, actually the depth looks pretty darn good at RB. Stewart was a Great hire.
    I mean, making boastful predictions is a meaningless way to spend your time at this time of year, but I gotta say, things are looking really good right now. We have at least two really good kickers. At least two really good qb’s. The bowl game showed recievers catching the ball. Linebackers look good if we get all healed up. The line is huge and should be good. Hopefully d backs will b solid again. I guess if I have a worry it would be depth at LB.
    If we are fortunate with regards to injuries, this team could be great!

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    April 14, 2019 6:56 p.m.

    BYU is his third school in 4 years for a reason.

  • Old But Not Stupid Moorpark, CA
    April 14, 2019 6:32 p.m.

    Too bad the Ute crew will discount his HS 4 stars down to one or none....but Chris B would always shout to remind you that "stars matter!"

  • cougarsrock Springville, UT
    April 14, 2019 6:03 p.m.

    This is going to be a very good year for BYU Football .....

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    April 14, 2019 5:27 p.m.

    Welcome T-dub! High-rated 4-star guy out of high school (90+ rating), but had difficulty staying healthy at USCjr.

    Should be able to stay healthier against less talented G5 and Pac12 teams out west than the SEC defenses he faced in '17 and '18.