Hundreds gather to rally for change to BYU honor code enforcement

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  • DieselCoondog Albuquerque, NM
    April 15, 2019 7:38 p.m.

    I have two children that wanted to go to BYU, had excellent qualifications, and did not get in. Lying, saying you will live an Honor Code and not doing so, is no different than paying $half a million and lying to get in. You took the place of a worthy student that wanted to be there and was willing to play by the rules.

  • [email protected] Granville, OH
    April 15, 2019 5:57 p.m.

    Overall, I'm confused as to why people complain about being disciplined for NOT honoring the code of conduct they signed as part of the agreement to attend the school. It's a subsidized religious school. If you don't like it, pay full price at a secular school.

  • 19CollegeStudent19 Riverton, UT
    April 15, 2019 4:03 p.m.

    james d. morrison - Sandy, UT
    April 12, 2019 9:52 p.m.

    James, I loved your comment!
    "For serious, repeat violators, instead of suspending them, just charge them the non-subsidized rate. So many want to go there for the cheap tuition at a top school but want to do so while doing whatever they please."
    So true! People want tithing subsidized education, without the "strings" attached. I almost agree 100% with everything you said. But I worry that charging non-subsidized tuition rates, it still encourages silence for less money out of pocket.

  • 19CollegeStudent19 Riverton, UT
    April 15, 2019 3:52 p.m.

    JaneB - Wilsonville, OR
    April 12, 2019 9:09 p.m.

    RE: "Let adults be adults. BYU and BYUI students don't need a babysitter. "

    Have you met any Freshmen recently? Um, yeah. Some do, thanks to barely involved or too involved parents. (To be fair to freshmen, I've met some great ones too. The not so great ones you sometimes end up reading about in the local newspaper).

    Re: "Police should not be sharing info with the honor code office."

    "Whether or not a student files a complaint of alleged sexual misconduct or otherwise asks the school to take action, where the school knows or reasonably should know of an incident of sexual misconduct, the school must take steps to understand what occurred and to respond appropriately."
    Now if you were law enforcement, don't you "the school... reasonably should know", especially since the school is legally bound by Title IX to provide a safe environment?
    (see September 2017 Q&A on Campus Sexual Misconduct at www.ed.gov)

    I have more to say, but lack space.

  • 19CollegeStudent19 Riverton, UT
    April 15, 2019 3:13 p.m.

    @Jumpyman - Salt Lake City, UT
    April 12, 2019 9:09 p.m.
    "There is nothing better than a cute girl coming up to you on Campus, starts talking like she wants to get to know you, and then, after getting your name and phone number, hands you a pink slip to go report at the honor code office because your shorts are 1/2 an inch too short. This happened to me several years ago. I don't know if that still goes on now, but that was pretty lame."

    Hey Jumpyman, you might want to try BYU-Idaho. You won't get any pink slips for your shorts there. Of course, if you want to take your tests, you'll have to wear pants. Oh, and shoes. Oh and shave. You don't have to shave at BYU anymore, right? Wow, must be rough, bro.

  • 19CollegeStudent19 Riverton, UT
    April 15, 2019 3:05 p.m.

    @MoreMan - San Diego, CA

    'April 15, 2019 9:52 a.m.
    This speaks volumes... "University administrators didn't attend the rally"'

    MoreMan, your context is very limited and somewhat incorrect. In contrast to your quoted section, a little further along in the article you read:
    "The director of our Honor Code Office has been meeting with students since last Thursday."
    Speaks volumes, doesn't it?

    Continuing, we read:
    '"These conversations have been very constructive, as students have shared with us their concern for certain processes within the Honor Code Office," the statement continues. "In some cases, these concerns do not reflect current practices;'
    From this we learn:
    1) These students are getting 1-on-1 discussion with the right people, and their voice is being heard
    2) An organization's power over undesirable outcomes only extends so far. That goes for BYU or any organization. Sometimes what people are unhappy about "[does] not reflect current practices" of an organization. Its like getting mad at sand being blown in your, when its really the wind's fault for blowing it there in the first place.

  • MoreMan San Diego, CA
    April 15, 2019 9:52 a.m.

    This speaks volumes... "University administrators didn't attend the rally"

  • Ghost Writer GILBERT, AZ
    April 15, 2019 8:55 a.m.

    I'm a BYU alum, active member the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I do love the Y for the great experience I had there. But if I would have been upset enough to spend days and days protesting and being so upset that I couldn't sleep, surely I would have transferred to another school where I wouldn't have to worry about my problems with the honor code. No hard feelings, just a parting of ways.

  • Strider303 American Fork, UT
    April 14, 2019 11:25 p.m.

    @ Cougar Forever: I am quite serious in my previous remarks. Thank you for understanding that I consider this whole affair a tempest in a teapot by emotionally immature individuals who think public demonstrations amount to anything constructive other than personal aggrandizement.

    I tend to agree with and support the opinions voiced to the participants that if they really don’t like the enforcement, the rules, or the management, they are free to enroll in another fine university of their choice.

    The management of BYU is a trust or stewardship and as such does not answer to the students. As mature seasoned adults they are trusted and empowered to administer the university according to the policies and procedures approved by their superiors. I believe they condescend to permit such demonstrations with some degree of patience and humor.

  • search diligently Lehi, UT
    April 14, 2019 4:00 p.m.

    @Cougar mom - "Please stop and think before you make the statement “If you don’t like BYU’s Honor Code, just go to a different school.” Positive social change comes about when people question the status quo. I am 100% sure people made similar comments when Ruby Bridges enrolled at an all white school in 1960."

    Your comment is not equivalent here. She was going to a public school that did not allow African Americans to attend because of their race.

    BYU does not disallow people to attend because of race. And BYU is not a public school. The only reason for its existence is the honor code and values BYU promotes. You strip that away and it is no different than any other institution and has no reason to exist.

    Unlike Ruby, anyone who wants to abide by the honor code that meets other fair and equal entry requirements can attend. Quite different than your example.

  • zipadeedoodah Lehi, UT
    April 14, 2019 2:52 p.m.

    I don't get it. If you don't like the honor code, don't go to BYU. That is what makes BYU... well, BYU. Don't mess with the code, just find another school.

    Let those who really want to live in an environment that honors that code do so.

  • justired Fillmore, UT
    April 14, 2019 9:00 a.m.

    The first student protest allowed on BYU campus, I thought I'd never see the day. This is the biggest "earthquake" in Utah County since Coke became available to buy on campus.

  • Cougar mom Bountiful, UT
    April 14, 2019 8:02 a.m.

    Please stop and think before you make the statement “If you don’t like BYU’s Honor Code, just go to a different school.” Positive social change comes about when people question the status quo. I am 100% sure people made similar comments when Ruby Bridges enrolled at an all white school in 1960. I am a BYU alum with 3 kids holding degrees from BYU and I believe strongly that BYU can and should do better with their honor code office.

  • emb Pleasant Grove, UT
    April 14, 2019 5:31 a.m.

    The honor starts when a student selects to apply for admission to BYU. The standards are very clear. There are many fine universities that have different standards and students can select one of these if they have concerns about the standards at BYU. There are many who would like to attend BYU and live the standards but can't get in because it is full. The hundreds who seem to have a problem with the Y are free to select another university better suited to their standards.

  • SpÄter73 Hughson, CA
    April 14, 2019 12:09 a.m.

    For those of you bantering to disband the HCO because the students are all adults and we should trust them to turn themselves in I have a question. What if an underclass-man comes home to an apartment the stinks of weed and all the upperclassmen have endulged? What is he to do? What about a roommate who wakes up to find his roommate sleeping with a girl in his room and the girl has even taken a shower in their apartment and used the innocent roommate’s towel to dry off? Who does he talk to? After all, he’s come to BYU with the expectation that others came for the same reason he did which is typically to avoid the behavior found on secular college campuses.

    I would certainly hope these infractions are worthy of reporting to someone who has authority to remove the students from campus. A student should not be considered a “snitch”, “rat” or whatever you want to call them for wanting to live with others who hold and live the same big standards. And last time I checked, a Bishop’s authority relating to school enrollment is that of giving an ecclesiastical endorsement a couple times a year. No more and no less.

    And minor infractions should be treated as such.

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    April 13, 2019 10:24 p.m.

    @Orem Parent wrote,

    "Looking at the photos I am seeing a majority of those aren't even students. Just another chance for the anti-BYU crowd to show up and get some press. Sad."

    I assume you know all 33,000 students and can tell which ones in the photos are not students. Correct?

    Is it possible that some in the photo are students who are not following the dress codes?

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    April 13, 2019 10:13 p.m.

    Some of the comments here show people who are out of touch with the honor code that has existed since the late 1970s.

    Beyond that, the claims that "curfew violations" and other "minor offenses" are treated the same as law of chastity, disturbing the peace, word of wisdom or academic integrity violations is just false.

    Tobegin with BYU has not had a proactive curfew for any students since the 1970s, only visiting hours.

    There are two results of this. First there is no visiting in cars clear regulation. This is an oversight that needs to be rectified. At least if we want to cut down on LofC issues we want to better address that issue.

    Visiting hours only mean guests of the opposite sex must leave by a given time. It says nothing of when you have to be home.

    That said I am remembering an egregious 2002 case where the rapist tried to argue based on when the date started sexual consent was inplied. It is a horrible argument but it might not hurt to warn our daughters that nof all men have good intentions and that they need to consider this in planning dates. If they are starting a date late because of work schedules make this very clear to the man.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    April 13, 2019 10:02 p.m.

    The honor code is a system to build community. Asking people to proactively encourage positive behavior is what we do all the time and what the honor code does.

    Those who use loaded words like "rat", "spy" and "tattle" would evodently prefer disorder and disruption.

    There is probably a need to reform the honor code. It probably needs stronger provisions to remove people for inapropriate behaviors online and it needs a clear ban on any form of gambling.

    I also think there has in the past been too much patience and liniency with those who enfage in extramarital sex.

  • WallE Walla Walla, WA
    April 13, 2019 7:28 p.m.

    Given BYU's penchant for pharisaical rules it is easy to see how the honor code can have unintended consequences. Other schools, even secular schools, have honor codes but without an Honor Code Office. Enforcement belongs to the institution, not an "office".

    The fact that BYU's Honor Code Office has any exposure at all says someone is doing something wrong. BYU's Honor Code Office shouldn't have the stigma of the IRS to motivate compliance. BYU's students are adults, if an Honor Code Office is necessary then BYU's Admissions Office should be reorganized.

  • bamafone Salem, UT
    April 13, 2019 6:02 p.m.

    Show these kids the exit. Others more appreciative of the privilege to go to school there will take their place.

  • estreetshuffle Window Rock, AZ
    April 13, 2019 4:21 p.m.

    Good for them

  • Puukko Orem , 00
    April 13, 2019 4:04 p.m.

    imp7

    What you taking about brother? What your saying don't make sense.

    These students knew the honor code when they signed up. If you don't like it,then go to another school. It's as simple as that.

  • geekusprimus Little Elm, TX
    April 13, 2019 3:37 p.m.

    "Blah blah blah... when I was at BYU!"
    "I haven't been a student for a long time, but..."
    "I never went to BYU, but..."
    "Back when my son attended BYU..."

    There is a strong disconnect between the average commentator on this article and what is actually going on at BYU. I heard about the protest/rally yesterday morning. I didn't join because I've never had an issue with the Honor Code. The Universe reported that it was peaceful and sanctioned by the university. As a current student, I will add a few points to clarify and correct some points propagated by readers here:
    1. This is not just about the office. Many of the protesters want to change the Honor Code. This rally coincides with a change.org petition to remove certain requirements about dress and grooming and same-sex attraction/behavior. Saying "they're not interested in changing the Honor Code, just the office" is patently false.
    2. Students protest because the university listens. Whether or not they do anything is different, but complaints, such as those in 2016 regarding sexual assault, have led to changes in the past.

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    April 13, 2019 3:36 p.m.

    Asking students to rat and spy on each other and turn each other in is sick to a large extent. On the other hand, people have a choice not to go to religious universities where the rules will always be heavily slanted towards the church who owns them. This is what you sign up for at religious universities. It is a good school but not the only one on earth to attend.

  • Orem Parent Orem, UT
    April 13, 2019 3:33 p.m.

    Looking at the photos I am seeing a majority of those aren't even students. Just another chance for the anti-BYU crowd to show up and get some press.

    Sad.

    Stay strong BYU. You are the light on the hill we need in this world.

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    April 13, 2019 3:24 p.m.

    As a couple of other people have mentioned, this hard line approach of threatening to kick a student out of school for very insignificant issues like dress code, curfew, breaking minor laws etc. often does more harm than good. Why turn someone against the church just so you can nail her for wearing shorts?

    New enforcement standards that strengthen both sides of this issue should not be that difficult to come up with. The Student advisory and support panel is a good idea. That way when a girl says "he told me that I had to put out or he would not take me home" her fellow students can tell her that is no excuse.

  • John Brown 1000 Laketown, UT
    April 13, 2019 3:18 p.m.

    150 or so students protested (others weren't even students). Out of a population of 33,000.

    That's like 1/2 a percent.

    This is a non-event.

    I think it's fair to say a half a percent of BYU students have always grumbled about the honor code. Big whoop.

    The media spotlight is making it a lot bigger deal than it is.

  • mominthetrenches South Jordan, UT
    April 13, 2019 3:09 p.m.

    Sad on so many levels...I've seen some of the Insta posts (campaign), and wonder how true/credible all of it is. I also see so much courage for those who post and protest. I am a BYU alum. I have seen enough to know that the way things were when I was in college are very different than in today's world. BYU IS a private, LDS Church run school, so it IS their prerogative to have an HC. I guess it's true that, if people don't like it, they CAN leave.

    However, to respond so flippantly is also how the Pharisees responded, worrying more about the letter of the law and their elitism, rather than the spirit of the law. President Nelson has encouraged us to drop the letter of the law/checklist mentality and focus our energy on the spirit of the law. He has also recently been updating many policies that closer reflect that, as we usher in Christ's coming. The HC & HCO dealings seem to go completely counter to the messages we listened to at General Conference. BYU represents the LDS Church; Christ would be handling all of the HC violations with love for each student, not by using scare tactics. I think that is the crux of all of this-not the HC, but the way HCO handles students.

  • Charity for all Las Vegas, NV
    April 13, 2019 2:55 p.m.

    I was confused until I talked to some students. Fear after sexual assault happens at times when the perpetrator threatens you because you had alcohol, drugs, were in other violation. Knowing that you will be kicked out of BYU. They hold this over the heads of their victims. Or you know you cannot report it because of any infraction of the Honor Code is involved. Perhaps the infraction was a one time offense, maybe you are working with your bishop BUT once the HCO gets involved a victim is punished.
    Unfortunately, the fear of the HCO has also been used as a form of "blackmail" or to get rid of those you don't want around. (Very Mccarthy like)

    It is so much more than someone not wanting to shave.

    I am proud of these students who organized this. They state that they want the Honor Code, they want to uphold the Honor Code BUT they want the HCO to have some checks and balances and to be more transparent! They love BYU and don't want to change the uniqueness of the Honor Code. They just don't want an Orwelian Big Brother, they want it to be administered as their Big Brother would. The true Light of the World. I hope the Administration listens to these thoughtful students.

  • high desert girl Redmond, OR
    April 13, 2019 2:21 p.m.

    Once one reaches the age and maturity of attending a university, most of their moral code should be well embedded into their being. As a graduate of two secular universities out of state, I needed to exert my independence and not have mama and daddy watching over me. For me to attend a university and not be able to exert my own moral compass would have made me very unhappy and more distracted from what I was learning in all of my classes. I'm sure that BYU works well for many, but for those that were like me, would have felt the weight of eyes hovering on me at a time I needed to make personal decisions for myself and develop my adult self, while not feeling short-changed. There are plenty of other fine universities where you can practice your faith.

    Like any religious institution, all must change with the times. I, too, applaud the folks who wanted their voices to be heard and the Church should acknowledge this. And, like the issues once ignored, but now being addressed at the General Conference, these changes will slowly evolve. We can only hope.......

  • The-Antidote Highland, UT
    April 13, 2019 12:42 p.m.

    Thank you DN for shining light on this uncompassionate policy at BYU. It is time to do away with such judgmental and devoid of love policies like the "Honor Code". Lets do away with these hurtful, barbaric, patriarchal policies, that have led to the destruction of so many lives. Time for a policy that would reflect the love, mercy, and tolerance of Jesus Christ.

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    April 13, 2019 12:23 p.m.

    Impartial7,

    Thanks for your response to my comment. Perhaps you can spot the irony inherent in a group of protesters complaining about an office that has used anonymous complaints as the grounds for follow-up investigations...while the protesters rely on anonymous complaints without any follow-up investigation into their veracity.

    I suppose my follow-up question to your comment is, "Can you name any concrete examples when the Honor Code Office has received an anonymous tip and then imposed a final punishment on a student (e.g., expulsion) without even attempting an investigation into the tip?" This is how due process operates. If a student chooses not to attend their appointment and share their side of the story, that's their choice, but it will lead to a decision being made based on whatever other information can be gathered during the investigation.

    It's little wonder that foreign governments view social media as a great opportunity for influence. When an increasing portion of the population is willing to accept anonymous online comments as final truth without any additional investigation whatsoever, it makes it very easy to get people to support pretty much any cause.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    April 13, 2019 12:09 p.m.

    My story...

    When I made a decision to go to BYU years ago, I made a decision to do whatever I was asked to do in terms of all the regulations and rules.

    I had no problems with the HCO or anyone else for that matter.

    BYU was the right place for me to be a that time in my life.

  • geekusprimus Little Elm, TX
    April 13, 2019 12:01 p.m.

    BYU Sports Nut,

    Speaking as a current student, I've had around a dozen roommates or so over the last few years. Only one of them has ever come close to being a snitch on perceived inappropriate behavior, and he would have done the same thing regardless of where he was. The "snitch culture" you speak of is overblown.

    Secondly, I hear the complaint about BYU being to hard to get into quite frequently. There are 30,000 undergraduates here. That's more than every university in Utah except for UVU, and it doesn't count the 20,000 or so who attend BYU-I. If BYU started accepting every student with a B average and a mid-20s ACT score, they would be forced to hold upwards of 50,000 students, which is not practical with the current housing situation in Provo or the school's infrastructure. The creation of BYU-I, I suspect, was largely influenced by the inability to accommodate more students here. At the end of the day, being owned by the Church does not make BYU immune to the laws of supply and demand.

  • BYU Forever Lehi, UT
    April 13, 2019 11:35 a.m.

    Don't like the HC? Go somewhere else. BYU rocks because its students are serious about living a Christ-like life.

  • BobP CA, 00
    April 13, 2019 11:12 a.m.

    The Honor Code or a simpler predecessor to it were in place when I went there in the 60s. Now having read much of the code, there now appears to be a lot of rather juvenile additions to it. Grooming standards are good but to get lost in picayune details, such as no mustaches or beards, super detailed quibbles about the length of skirts, short etc. are applied by Pharisaical souls.

    What ever happened to the ideal? - The letter of the law killeth but the spirit giveth life.

    I admit I was older than most when I went to BYU, having spent 5 years in the military as an officer and 2 years on a mission. I was an adult and expected to be treated like one.

    My biggest "run in" was calling out a Religion professor who made some comments to a young lady about keeping her knees together if she insisted on sitting in the front row. I told him he had a dirty mind. Whoopsie!! I attended on a "hearing" and was given a dressing down.

    As I said the Honor Code has grown to be overkill. Tone it down.

  • Crazy in California Acampo, CA
    April 13, 2019 11:02 a.m.

    Chummley - MISSION VIEJO, CA

    As short and to the point as possible, I'll try to give you an honest answer:

    There is an HC to go to the temple:

    1. Temple recommend (consequences in this life).

    2. Father's judgements (consequences in the after life).

    The following exist, are required, because we live in a fallen world:

    There are consequences to our behavior, in this life and the next.

    We must make choices and experience consequences to grow, learn, to become like Father. .

    At BYU, limited space, limited time.

    BYU has a mission.

    Choices, judgement are required to achieve that mission.

    With limited resources, acceptance and continued attendance at BYU requires comparisons between people.

    When a student is accepted, many are turned away.

    To achieve a mission, comparisons, judging the relative value of things (students and the school), is a requirement.

    Students must chose and experience the consequences.

    BYU must chose and experience the consequences.

  • Moldy2123 Payson, UT
    April 13, 2019 10:58 a.m.

    I agree to those who are saying "You signed the honor code agreement you knew what you were getting into" I also want to point out that NO ONE should be sexually assaulted. Yes, how students are being treated by the HCC needs to be looked at. Just as big of a concern is what is being taught at BYU. Gospel truths are not, if you have a child attending or plan on attending in the future. Know this, more and more students are leaving BYU either early or after they graduate with no longer having a testimony. Don't believe me? Check it out yourself.

  • northland55 Provo, UT
    April 13, 2019 10:13 a.m.

    For those of you who are suggesting that all students need to do is be perfect and there will be no issues with the honor code office, get some perspective. That is like saying that all that you need to do is live sinless and you will have no trouble with God. After all, we chose to come to earth and we knew what we signed up for. Yet we make mistakes. Every. Single. One of us. We were just reminded by President Nelson that EVERYONE needs to repent. Shouldn't students feel loved and strengthened and encouraged to do better and be better? Instead it feels more like a system run by Pharisees, counting how many steps you take on Sunday.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    April 13, 2019 10:12 a.m.

    "Hawkeye79 - Iowa City, IA
    April 13, 2019 8:37 a.m.
    Does anyone believe that all of the anonymous Honor Code Office complaints on social media are 100% true? If not, how do you know which are true and which are false?
    Do you believe that any true anonymous comments included all relevant information? Or is it possible that they omitted key facts to better advance the site's stated agenda?
    I'm all about discussing and diagnosing policy, but can we at least start with a foundation that is more than unsubstantiated comments from unknown actors?"

    Can you see the irony in your post and your position? That's exactly what many students are protesting. Getting disciplined for something they didn't do, just ratted out by an anonymous source. No specifics by the HC Office, just unsubstantiated comments. Read the story about the athlete that was disciplined for supposedly getting his girlfriend pregnant, based on anonymous tattlers. Turns out after a long probation period, the HC dropped the allegation (because it was never true).
    Students lives are being ruined, not by their actions, but by arbitrary and punitive actions on the whim of an honor code office person.

  • hbeckett Colfax, CA
    April 13, 2019 10:09 a.m.

    I am confused not having seen the HC is it listed in a manner that describes certain actions are acceptable and others are not with a described action for the item that is violated and this form is easy to understand and I agree to said constraints, would that be a correct understanding of said form. then why do we seam to have a miss understanding here. please explain in easy to understand language of the day

  • GUCKY Victorville, CA
    April 13, 2019 10:04 a.m.

    it has this has nothing to do with integrity it has everything to do with the integrity of the Honor code office and how they enforce it might you would be that if you commit one rape or sexual assault you're out. End of story and you encourage the victim to go tell the police and to press charges no matter what

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    April 13, 2019 9:43 a.m.

    Why would there be fear over violating the honor code if you are sexually assaulted?

    Elizabeth Smart was repeatedly raped and she was still able to serve a mission. The church didn't consider that a violation of the law of chastity.

    If you are forced to do sexual acts that isn't a violation of the law of chastity.

  • Donald Johnson Northern, MI
    April 13, 2019 9:36 a.m.

    Yes, the honor code can and should go beyond temple recommend requirements at times, and yes, compliance changes with enforcement. For example, consider the common honor code violation of a young man being in a womens' apartment very late at night. The rule against it still seems smart even though it goes beyond temple recommend requirements. And if there were no enforcement of the rule, do you really think that there wouldn't be an increase in breaking the rule? Is that really what we want?

  • Thekman Woods Cross, UT
    April 13, 2019 9:32 a.m.

    I didn’t go to BYU, but I grew up in Utah and I am familiar with the honor code. I am confused by what these students are protesting. It seems like they want to be “heard” and “understood” while only telling half the story. If you want to have a dialogue or inspire change then you have to be clear and unambiguous in your free speech.

    Based on the comments I’ve heard surrounding this issue, one would think that there are simultaneously students being kicked out of school because they have a 5 o’clock shadow or their shorts are 1/2 inch too short and that there are lots of known rapists prowling around the campus.

    Let’s be honest. You were told to shave or asked not to wear your book bag in a way that draws attention to your breasts and you recoiled in embarrassment but that was the end of it, or you slept with someone and you are being disciplined, but you think your situation is sooo nuanced and the HCO just doesn’t see it the same way.

    Making such willfully ambiguous arguments is immature and ineffective. You instantly lose credibility with the reasonable but skeptical people you need to persuade. What is the actual policy you want to change?

  • dodger43 American Fork, UT
    April 13, 2019 9:30 a.m.

    My son walked in his BYU graduation even though he was short a couple of religion credits. He went back to take those classes by correspondence later, but because of his activities based on retaliating against the judgments of other church members, which I don't condone, he was hauled before the BYU honor folks to account for his actions. I went with him. Still, he was denied his diploma after completing his credits. It's been several years and he still hasn't received it. He was once my most spiritual child. Now he's my most worldly, (and my most financially successful in his own business). He is further away from the gospel of Jesus Christ than he has every been. Good job, Honor folks.

  • dordrecht Salt Lake City, UT
    April 13, 2019 9:28 a.m.

    Changes in the church have been abundant lately, and changes in applying BYU's honor code is no exception. The Book of Mormon has examples of being over-zealous.

  • FanOf"ChuckARama" Vernal, UT
    April 13, 2019 9:04 a.m.

    "The real issue at BYU is that most normal, traditional kids cannot get in there. BYU caters to those with high ACT scores and 4.0 GPAs."

    Universities are just like big businesses always looking out to get incentives and one of them is the non-resident (out of State) tax incentives.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    April 13, 2019 9:02 a.m.

    "matman - Provo, UT
    April 13, 2019 4:19 a.m.
    Hey I know how you can attend BYU and live without fear. Just live the Honor Code and you shouldn't have fear. It's that simple."

    If you took some time to understand the issues you'd learn a few things;
    1. They don't fear the honor code. They fear the honor code office and associates.
    2. Students living the honor code are still being interrogated and investigated. One female protester said she was hauled into the HC office and was confronted with a Tweet that she "liked" (no mention of the subject) in High School. They also harangued her over a picture on Instagram that they deemed immodest. Again, taken and posted while she was in high school.
    She did nothing that violated the honor code while in college.
    3. The Honor Code office is behaving like the Stasi. They spend countless hours trying to dig up "dirt" on innocent kids. They place them on probation, with the threat of suspension for things they did before attending BYU. That's not fair or honest.

    There are hundreds, if not thousands of stories like those. I highly doubt the people in the HC office could withstand the same scrutiny they place on students.

  • dski Herriman, UT
    April 13, 2019 8:56 a.m.

    As a parent who had children graduated from BYU, if the honor code was a problem for them, they would have been XYZU alums instead of BYU. Not that I would have force it on them, but integrity was a huge driver in our distant relationships while the rest of our family lived in Fairbanks, Alaska and they were away in Provo, Utah. They knew when they signed on to something, the expectation was, they live with it. Life is not fair.

    In case these students have forgotten, there are hundreds of schools with no honor code out there. Also, there are thousands of students who are dying to come to BYU and happily abide by the school’s Honor Code.

  • tothemoon Centerville, UT
    April 13, 2019 8:41 a.m.

    "They basically want there to be no enforcement of the honor code"

    Categorically false.

  • HowlingDog Ivins, UT
    April 13, 2019 8:40 a.m.

    Are these changes a slippery slope?

  • Hawkeye79 Iowa City, IA
    April 13, 2019 8:37 a.m.

    Does anyone believe that all of the anonymous Honor Code Office complaints on social media are 100% true? If not, how do you know which are true and which are false?

    Do you believe that any true anonymous comments included all relevant information? Or is it possible that they omitted key facts to better advance the site's stated agenda?

    I'm all about discussing and diagnosing policy, but can we at least start with a foundation that is more than unsubstantiated comments from unknown actors?

  • tothemoon Centerville, UT
    April 13, 2019 8:34 a.m.

    "Just have the integrity to live the agreement you signed up for when getting to have the Church subsidize your education---- and then you will have exactly zero involvement with the Honor Code Office"

    Unless an anonymous tipster accuses you of something that you didn't do and delays your graduation by a semester, which happened to my last supervisor.

  • Donald Johnson Northern, MI
    April 13, 2019 8:33 a.m.

    For those that say nobody is questioning the honor code itself, I say take a look at the pictures of the rally, and the comments. I saw pictures of signs demanding allowing LGBT dating on campus, comments protesting the rules on grooming, etc.
    Regardless, even if the only issue were enforcement, reduced enforcement means reduced deterrance, which would lead to more violations, so the value of the honor code itself is again a central issue to consider.

  • One of Vai's Cousins DC, Washington
    April 13, 2019 8:18 a.m.

    The problem with the HCO is that it adds a very unhealthy layer to the repentance process. It is already a crap shoot what will happen when you repent depending upon your Bishop. But this extra layer of unnecessary enforcement and punishment is such a relic that I truly can’t believe it still exists today. Those uncomfortable with these kids speaking up are part of the problem of a voiceless, rigid, top down, obedience driven hierarchy that is driving LDS youth away in droves.

  • Big J Bountiful, UT
    April 13, 2019 8:13 a.m.

    BYU Sports Nut said: "...which quite honestly makes BYU not quite as cool as it formerly was."

    Just to be clear... BYU never has had any cool.

    Now to the issue at hand... I truly believe in the Honor Code. I believe all who attend BYU or any Church-run school should do their very best to live by it. I also know humans are not perfect and make mistakes. This includes the employees of the HCO.

    The Honor Code never needs to be changed. Adjustments have, and continue to be made in the enforcement of the Honor Code. The Honor Code is a contractual agreement between the student and the school. That makes it different than a Church covenant. However, the same love, concern, and understanding needs to be applied to the repentant student as a Bishop would offer.

  • don jackson Atlanta, GA
    April 13, 2019 8:02 a.m.

    There are many issues here:

    1. A few BYU police officers misused the criminal record system for enforcing the Honor Code. The State of Utah and BYU has already investigated, identified and made corrective actions.

    2. The action of the Utah Dept. of Public Safety on BYU is unprecedented, if the state does go forward to revoke BYU Police certification/authority it will open the door to a massive lawsuit which will be BYUs only option. There is absolutely zero reason for BYU Police to lose their certification. The Utah Dept. of Public Safety needs to understand if they revoke the certification it will bring a major spotlight on their department

    3. Students need to realize they are getting a subsidized education and the Honor Code is necessary because who owns and operates BYU, a major Church. Many similar private universities have similar codes of behavior for students, faculty and staff. The Honor Code will remain and enforcing the Honor Code will remain, the methods of enforcement need to change and it appears BYU is already making necessary changes.

  • Marybeth61 Aspen Hill, MD
    April 13, 2019 7:32 a.m.

    So you have an honor code but should have no enforcement? The Temple has an honor code. It’s our Bishop and our Stake President, if you’re not worthy you don’t get a Temple recommend. And if a violation comes to the Bishop or Stake presidents attention you can loose your recommend. Some people want a world of laws with no penalties. That’s not Gods way! God has laws and there are penalties affixed!!!

  • jalapenochomper Albuquerque, NM
    April 13, 2019 7:31 a.m.

    As usual, many protestors not even current students; and an apparent majority with an ulterior motive, not even sure why they are there, or rubber-necking. Using familiar tricks to look bigger than they are.

    I don't have a dog in this fight. As a very spiritual return missionary I took one look at the Honor Code 30 years ago and never thought of BYU again. I had no interest in having my life controlled to that degree after just completing missionary service. Then again, I could read. Righteous children made different decisions and received excellent educations.

    A private institution should do what it wants. Those lecturing us often remind us not to dictate morality to them - perhaps those threatening to enforce a phony government defined morality as a condition of funding might consider. Except the true motive is not to reform but to destroy.

  • Justmythoughts Provo, UT
    April 13, 2019 7:23 a.m.

    When students apply to BYU, they know what the rules are....if you don’t like the Honor Code...then don’t go to BYU. Seems simple. To protest AFTER you have been accepted as a student seems kind of silly to me.

  • Lone Eagle Aurora, CO
    April 13, 2019 6:44 a.m.

    I agree with Nan on this one. What is the protest? Why is it a protest?

    There are others I agree with as well RE heavy-handedness of the honor code. I attended both BYU and BYUI (it was known as Ricks College then) and found the difference amazing. BYUI is more like a child care center with their insipid and controlling approach to the honor code. They really need to loosen up.

    As to enforcement, if the infraction is egregious, then do something. If it's a minor infraction, big fat deal. Most minor infractions are not worth the hassle.

    The comparison of temple recommend and honor code is quite an interesting one. Obviously, the school must concern itself with cheating and other like behaviors.

    My last question (for this posting): if it's OK to attend the temple with a beard, why is it not OK to attend (or teach, even as online adjunct professor) with the same?

  • FTF Park City, UT
    April 13, 2019 6:36 a.m.

    What, exactly, are the dissatisfied students expecting? Resistance to change, especially from the bottom, is what authoritarian systems do. If they expect some influence and autonomy, they should be at some other school.

  • MileHighGuy Melbourne, FL
    April 13, 2019 6:10 a.m.

    If I am living the standards of the honor code, I don’t need to fear its enforcement. I can trust that if someone was to investigate my behavior, I would be able to show my honorable actions are in full compliance.

    Those protesting appear to be wanting no enforcement or a relaxed enforcement, negating the purpose for the Honor Code and what makes BYU what it is. And of course, a few promoting LGBTQ lifestyles - which members hijack any rally or event to protest for additional exposure.

    If you want to go to BYU without an honor code enforcement, go to Weber State.

  • Stacey23 Westminster, CO
    April 13, 2019 5:59 a.m.

    The Honor Code office was in the student handbook when they signed on, and in their student agreements. In fact, there are several pages of student material that cover the HCO. If a student doesn't think they can abide by the HC then it's time for them to start "adulting" and decline to attend BYU. No one is forcing them to attend. They can give up that spot to the literally thousands of others that are not only supportive of an HC, but genuinely excited to be involved in a school that still adheres to one.

  • windsor Logan, UT
    April 13, 2019 5:17 a.m.

    Well, I for one just got 'educated'

    I saw one of the girls in the pictures with this article has a protest sign which reads "We are tired of being emotionally derfed by the HCO"

    Not being a Millennial, I had to look up what 'derfed' means.

    Yes, well upon learning that, I am so very sorry that my tithing dollars go to help support people like her at BYU....

    ( instead of the over 200 college age Church members I know in five Third World countries who so very much more deserve to be at BYU than she does)

  • matman Provo, UT
    April 13, 2019 4:19 a.m.

    Hey I know how you can attend BYU and live without fear. Just live the Honor Code and you shouldn't have fear. It's that simple.

  • Mayfair Logan, UT
    April 13, 2019 4:15 a.m.

    Many commentors here seem upset and say some do not understand the issue at hand, such as Linda Mason who said:
    "No one....none of these students or previous students are protesting the honor code. The honor code itself in not their issue. They are protesting how the honor code is being enforced. From their personal experiences one can tell many have suffered life altering very traumatizing effects related to how their supposed infraction was handled."

    And those of us on the other side are saying:
    If you don't want to feel upset and 'traumatized' by how your infraction is handled by the University, then don't think you are above the Honor Code and commit infractions against it!

    So simple.

    Just have the integrity to live the agreement you signed up for when getting to have the Church subsidize your education---- and then you will have exactly zero involvement with the Honor Code Office.

  • Mayfair Logan, UT
    April 13, 2019 3:53 a.m.

    Certainly honor needs to be restored----but it is by the ones who keep breaking the Honor Code
    or those who don't think it should apply to them, not the University.

  • BobHope Logan, UT
    April 13, 2019 3:16 a.m.

    I don’t know the exact truthful way they handle code violations but here is a simple solution: if you don’t like the Honor Code, go to another school. There are a lot of colleges out there.

    The reason why I don’t like BYU isn’t the concept of it but the students who go there and complain about it.

  • RockOn1224 Spanish Fork, UT
    April 13, 2019 12:36 a.m.

    Self-policing??? Are you kidding? College students!
    Consider female student who wanted to sleep in her own bed, but the roommate had a boyfriend sleeping over. After telling the roommate this is wrong, an infringement on her privacy and they blew her off, what recourse did she have? According to some, that would be spying or tattling.

    Consider the 1,000s of rejected applicants to BYU who wanted to live the honor code (it is not difficult), but, despite a high GPA and ACT score, couldn't get in. Those refusing to live the Honor Code should have some honor and leave voluntarily so those wishing to attend and live the Honor Code can do so.

    Last...beards and grooming are NOT moral issues but are branding issues. Every company and organization has a right to establish their brand and insist employees/attendees, those subsidized heavily by the sponsoring institution (every BYU student), act and dress in accordance with their brand. IBM insisted even repairmen/women wear blue suits and be cleanly groomed. Welcome to reality, students.

  • TrueBleuCoug Salem, UT
    April 13, 2019 12:25 a.m.

    I love BYU and respect its right to hold students to a higher standard.

    However, like the changes made within the Church this year which are designed to help us focus on the higher law, this should apply to the HCO.

    I hope positive change comes from these conversations.

  • steeltalon Clearfield, UT
    April 13, 2019 12:19 a.m.

    I few points I believe these students are forgetting/don't understand:

    1. I, like thousands of other BYU grads, continue to support the school with our tithing dollars so these protesting students can have one of the best college educations per dollar in the US.
    2. 51% of those who applied to BYU, DID NOT get accepted. I'm sure they would be happy to trade places with one of these protesters without complaining about the Honor Code.
    3. These students don't realize that life isn't fair, and sometimes well meaning people make mistakes which doesn't mean the system is broke. If you feel that BYU is "unjust and not applying the Atonement etc...," boy, are you in for a disappointing surprise about life when you leave Happy Valley.
    4. Maybe these 200 students need to transfer to another school. There are lots of schools that welcome "diversity," in the form of protests against virtually any rule, law, or requirement.
    5. Finally, I strongly suggest these students remember BYU's motto, "Enter to Learn, Go forth to Serve." It doesn't say "Enter to Protest, Go forth to Complain."

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    April 13, 2019 12:12 a.m.

    @Strider303

    "This is such a first world problem."

    "But I think if the students really think they have a legitimate gripe they would pool their money, hire an attorney to write up their concerns in a coherent format and present it to the appropriate authorities requesting a meeting to discuss the item(s) detailed on the document. Otherwise my impression this is more of a stunt to garner attention for the participants than results for a cause."

    You're kidding, right?

    Otherwise, you have provided an example of one of the most arrogantly dismissive and demeaning comments I have seen.

    I have no connections with anyone participating in this protest and usually side with "authority" in such situations, but the suggestion that "... this is more of a stunt to garner attention for the participants than results for a cause" insultingly minimizes the courage that a number of students displayed in making public very painful and embarrassing events.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    April 12, 2019 11:55 p.m.

    I would want an honor code office that is strict rather than soft.

    You learn very little when there are no consequences.

    As a former BYU grad, I never had reason to be in the HC office. The rules are pretty simple and easy to follow!

    My observation is that the honor code is pretty lax. Students wear clothing which were very inappropriate in the seventies.

    Yes! There may be some who occassionally lack the skills with enforcing the rules but it's still good to have.

    For those who are offended and upset of the rules you once agreed to live by, there are thousands of other places to go and there are thousands wanting entrance into BYU because of the honor code.

    For many, the honor code is very much desired. Let's not make excuses for changes.

  • It wasn’t me ,
    April 12, 2019 11:11 p.m.

    The honor code itself isn’t the problem, It’s the inconsistent enforcement. Harsh penalties for some while others are not even required by their bishops to report to the honor code office for the same infraction. Those who self report are treated poorly. The Lord forgives, BYU may or may not.

  • Nan BW ELder, CO
    April 12, 2019 11:03 p.m.

    I am a BYU grad, but from so long ago that perhaps that doesn't even matter. After reading the article and the comments, I am really confused about the protest. What is the policy regarding sexual assault? What is happening to motivate such a protest? Perhaps others understand the issue, but I needed better background to grasp the problem.

  • 3grandslams Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 12, 2019 10:55 p.m.

    I don’t understand the rally. The HCO was already listening and dialoguing. I also think the students need to be more informed how the HCO works. It’s been demonized the past few weeks with half truth stories or mis-information.

  • BYU Sports Nut Heber City, UT
    April 12, 2019 10:46 p.m.

    The Honor Code office has for years created a snitch culture amongst roommates at BYU. It is time for that to stop.

    The real issue at BYU is that most normal, traditional kids cannot get in there. BYU caters to those with high ACT scores and 4.0 GPAs. This in and of itself lowers athletic attendance and brings an intellectual type of kid which quite honestly makes BYU not quite as cool as it formerly was. It also breeds a student body who thinks they know better than the board of trustees.

    BYU needs to allow for a better mix of students. If the kid who works hard but only gets a 24 on his ACT and a B average in high school were allowed to attend along with a few lower and few higher, BYU would be a much better place than it is today.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    April 12, 2019 10:45 p.m.

    I just had a brief discussion/debate with three other BYU alums. The “if you don’t like having your behavior scrutinized for adherence to the honor code then don’t attend BYU” view was expressed as was the view that reform is needed because of the “police state”-like atmosphere at BYU and potential for problems if you report sexual assault without having an unblemished record yourself.

    An argument was made that those protesting are disrespecting “the unwritten order of things” as outlined by Elder Packer in a 1996 talk and that it would be within BYU’s purview to dismiss these students. In our day, such a protest would have been unthinkable.

    The Honor Code is necessary to make BYU what it is. However, @Jumpyman, @caleby and @JaneB make good points about the juvenility that sometimes is fostered at BYU. There are undeniable positives to attending BYU. But, having done graduate work at a large, "name brand", secular university as a comparison, I have to say that the social atmosphere at BYU was like going back to junior high school.

    Will BYU acquiesce to student demands or draw a line in the sand and stick to its traditional “top-down” approach? It will be interesting to see.

  • Strider303 American Fork, UT
    April 12, 2019 10:33 p.m.

    This is such a first world problem.

    If the purpose of this afternoon frolic on the quad was to raise awareness of some perceived injustice, I guess it works. I am now aware.

    But I think if the students really think they have a legitimate gripe they would pool their money, hire an attorney to write up their concerns in a coherent format and present it to the appropriate authorities requesting a meeting to discuss the item(s) detailed on the document. Otherwise my impression this is more of a stunt to garner attention for the participants than results for a cause.

  • Linda Mason SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    April 12, 2019 10:30 p.m.

    I'm shaking my head at how many comments on this thread indicate total mis understanding if this issue.
    No one....none of these students or previous students are protesting the honor code. The honor code itself in not their issue.
    They are protesting how the honor code is being enforced. From their personal experiences one can tell many have suffered life altering very traumatizing effects related to how their supposed infraction was handled. They are asking for a re evaluation of enforcement policies hoping a more educated, insightful, loving, balanced approach that will actually be supportive to those students in violation.
    I'm proud of them for doing what they can to effect a much needed change.
    I believe improvement for all will come from this, and they deserve our support in their efforts.

  • Chummley MISSION VIEJO, CA
    April 12, 2019 10:15 p.m.

    I have an honest question:

    We don't have an honor code office for the Temple. We trust our people who attend the temple to be good people. Why then do we need one for BYU? Is BYU somehow more sacred than the temple?

    Maybe we are saying - hey all you top notch students that passed years of seminary, got exceptional grades, passed multiple Bishop and Stake President interviews, served missions, go to church in huge number and demonstrate tremendous faith each and every day - We Don't Trust You!

    We will let you get married in the Temple, serve callings, go on missions, attend 16 hours of religion classes, go to devotionals, attend church, do tons of service work, pray, hold family home evenings - with people you have just met, act to the highest levels of integrity but - well we need an honor code office just in case.

    The honor code office is a relic of the Wilkenson days - born from hard fisted men who were combating the 1960's counter culture. Let it go and trust you people - they continue to prove themselves and in all honesty really don't need you anymore to be exactly who they already are - exceptional people who hold the future of the Church in their hands.

  • idablu Idaho Falls, ID
    April 12, 2019 10:06 p.m.

    I’m with the students on this one. Those who dismiss their concerns with flippant statement like “if they don’t like it they should go to another school,” really have no comprehension of the issue.
    A big part of the problem is the ecclesiastical arm and the standards arm are at odds with each other. A student could undergo the repentance process with his/her bishop but could get heavy handed treatment from the HC office potentially years later for the same transgression. I state from experience that there is no allowance for recourse or appeal from the ecclesiastical leader on behalf of any student.
    Then there is the issue of over-the-top treatment for relatively trivial infractions.i had a student who was booted from BYU-I 2/3 into the semester who took a “justified” swing at his roommate for racial slurs. There was no physical injury and the incident between the 2 was reconciled with the bishopric. But the HC office caught wind of it and reacted with expulsion. No credits and no reimbursement of tuition. Ridiculous.
    I agree that the HC Office needs a complete overhaul at the BYU schools.

  • BYU Joe MISSION VIEJO, CA
    April 12, 2019 10:02 p.m.

    I love the Bloodhounds of the world - they love a hard line and love to judge people according to the hard line. It is easy for them - I guess perfection comes easier to some than others.

    So easy to say if you don't like the honor code go some place else. It like the Stake President who says - Hey don't watch the Super Bowl - because he does not care about football.

    Hard lines make some people feel safe - it makes other think "I wonder what that hardliner is hiding?"

  • james d. morrison Sandy, UT
    April 12, 2019 9:52 p.m.

    "They are protesting the honor code office as well as PD's for using the honor code as intimidation against those that come forward with sexual assault claims. Please try to understand the difference."
    But that's not what they are protesting. They've already addressed that issue. They basically want there to be no enforcement of the honor code.
    For serious, repeat violators, instead of suspending them, just charge them the non-subsidized rate. So many want to go there for the cheap tuition at a top school but want to do so while doing whatever they please.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    April 12, 2019 9:46 p.m.

    Regardless of where one's sympathies reside in this situation, from a purely academic perspective, it will be very interesting to see how it unfolds.

    I never had problems with the honor code or contact with those tasked with overseeing compliance with it. However, as is often the case with those who take on what they perceive as an "enforcement" role, there clearly have been instances of misjudgment and even administrative malpractice by the HCO. Some of the stories related by students are genuinely disturbing. In what now seems like the distant past, a freshman "straight-arrow" dorm-mate of mine had an encounter with the HCO (or whatever it was called then) over a trivial matter which he quickly resolved. Nonetheless, he was put off after being told by a member of the HCO staff that BYU HCO employees should be viewed as having been put in their position through inspiration (since their "line of authority can be traced back to BYU's president who is put there by revelation"). It wasn't his last experience with some administrative arrogance at BYU by individuals who seemed to relish taking an excessively punitive approach toward students without even basic respect.

  • caleby Bountiful, UT
    April 12, 2019 9:41 p.m.

    I was a student there over 30 years ago. Attending summer session I was walking through the Wilkinson Center on a Saturday morning in jeans/t shirt/flip flops. A professor/administrator stopped me to let me know that in no uncertain terms that at BYU the men were required to wear socks. I was so dumbstruck that I could not even reply. Fortunately I did not get a pink slip requiring me to report to the Honor Code office. Some things are just so arbitrary and enforced in a capricious manner that change is warranted. "I teach people correct principles and they govern themselves." Now who said that?

  • Bloodhound Provo, UT
    April 12, 2019 9:35 p.m.

    The Honor Code has a purpose. Leave it alone. If you don't like the school's Honor Code, find another school to attend.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    April 12, 2019 9:31 p.m.

    It seems to me that this problem has been resolved a while back when BYU /Church announced that a student reporting sexual assault would not face an Honor Code violation if they had been engaging in such at the time. Like too many young people these days, they seem to be protesting something pretty moot. @ Marybeth, I grew up in Aspen Hill, MD, just off Georgia Ave, it was a a fun place. Enjoy!

  • JaneB Wilsonville, OR
    April 12, 2019 9:09 p.m.

    Let adults be adults. BYU and BYUI students don't need a babysitter. They should not be spied on. Police should not be sharing info with the honor code office. Nor should students be encouraged to tattle on each other. And btw, don't we belong to a church that preaches repentance? Free will? Should a student's entire academic career be derailed by a mistake? Why are the BYU standards more stringent than the requirements to obtain a temple recommend? This is all a bit insane to me.

    Honor code office either needs a complete reset, or they should shut it down completely.

  • Jumpyman Salt Lake City, UT
    April 12, 2019 9:09 p.m.

    There is nothing better than a cute girl coming up to you on Campus, starts talking like she wants to get to know you, and then, after getting your name and phone number, hands you a pink slip to go report at the honor code office because your shorts are 1/2 an inch too short. This happened to me several years ago. I don't know if that still goes on now, but that was pretty lame.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    April 12, 2019 9:05 p.m.

    @Marybeth61 - Aspen Hill, MD
    April 12, 2019 8:01 p.m.
    If they don’t like the honor code, they don’t have to go to that school. There has to be one school left that has the Lords standards."

    Some people don't want to hear the truth. NO ONE is protesting the honor code. They knew the drill when they signed up. They are protesting the honor code office as well as PD's for using the honor code as intimidation against those that come forward with sexual assault claims. Please try to understand the difference.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    April 12, 2019 8:47 p.m.

    If you have a problem with this alleged "honor" code, why bother protesting the organization that promotes and requires any degree of matching behavior.

  • northland55 Provo, UT
    April 12, 2019 8:40 p.m.

    Marybethe61

    You seem to be slightly misinformed and I wonder if you read the entire article in question. Nobody is questioning the Lords standards. The issue is how policies and violations are handled.

  • Arkpears Bella Vista, AR
    April 12, 2019 8:19 p.m.

    We can all do as the amazing author Stephen Covey counseled, "listen to understand".

  • Laxman taylorsville, UT
    April 12, 2019 8:08 p.m.

    These students have chosen BYU to go to college. The honor code has been there the whole time and long before now. Why do they think it should change it. Transfer to another school that will meet there needs. There are thousands of kids that would love to attend BYU with the honor code the way it is, but they can’t get in. I wonder why these students feel they are so special. Grow up.

  • Marybeth61 Aspen Hill, MD
    April 12, 2019 8:01 p.m.

    If they don’t like the honor code, they don’t have to go to that school. There has to be one school left that has the Lords standards.

  • Fabulous Jen Eagle Mountain, UT
    April 12, 2019 7:32 p.m.

    I applaud these students for their courage and their commitment to seek change. The difference between the student and former student comments on the Instagram page and the "reader's comments" were . . . chilling.

    Instead of an 180 word statement from the BYU press office, the best response would have required only three words:

    "We hear you."