Solving transportation problems is a difficult challenge when roads are so
expensive to build and take such a long time to do so. This is a reasonable
proposal.You cannot build roads without money. So taxes are needed to
build them.We pay a gas tax now. Switching to a consumption based tax
makes a lot of sense.Laws of economics show that allocating scarce
resources by pricing them differently works pretty well.Right now, we are
pretty much "consuming " the roads by paying a gas tax. The gas tax does
not apply to all, just those who drive vehicles burning gas.However,
almost everyone who drives uses the highways. If the gas tax were
replaced with a tolls that were adjusted to reflect how busy or un-congested the
roads were, it would more fairly allocated scarce resources. Freeways at
midnight are not a scarce resource. Traffic space during rush hour is a scarce
resource. By charging a higher toll during rush hour and removing
the toll for high occupancy vehicles, we would be incented to change our
behavior.UTA is already basically free as it is so heavily
subsidized. I could easily believe the real cost of a ride on UTA is easily 10
times more than the fare charged.
A thousand thousand thanks, Deseret News, for this brave editorial. As you will
discover, a great many of your readers disagree with you on this issue. But in
my view, you're on the side of the angels and have taken a highly
responsible position on this issue. Bravo!!
Adding too many tolls on 1-15 would simply make me drive on side streets. It
would take me longer to get to work and all the starting, stopping, and idling
would add to pollution.
Brave Sir Robin, Concern about the poor is nothing new to me.
I've consistently opposed every tax increase and new tax for just this
reason. Contrary to the popular myth shared among the Democrats being a
conservative republican does not mean I am rich or only care about the rich.Adding a Toll would push the poor off the freeways. You want congestion
to ease? As others have said, stop trying to cram all the jobs into SL County.
Move the Inland Port out to Toole or up north say by Ogden or Brigham City.
Believe me many of us stuck commuting to work in SL County every day would love
to work closer to home. But the jobs keep getting put in SL County so
that's where we have to travel. How about tax credits for large employers
who move outside of SL County, and keep em away from the point of the mountain
too. Silicon Slopes is idiotic if you consider the congestion and pollution
adding all that traffic to that area will bring. (Keep the Prison in Draper,
that 720 Acres will substantially increase the traffic when it's all
I was tongue-in-cheek about the speeding tickets.Nanny state greed
has become a joke. And speeders don't slow down traffic.Although some enforcement measures are unconstitutional, radar with camera
tickets are legal in construction zones at least.And plate reading
cameras have passed the privacy test. Orwellian, for sure.Politicians get weird when they run out of money and will try all sorts of
Carpool lanes are one thing. Congestion pricing is a whole different animal.
Drivers living within the congestion pricing area are charged every time they
leave the driveway. Utah traffic is not nearly bad enough to consider such a
draconian measure. I've driven both the I15 during rush hour and the 405.
No comparison. Incentives for more people to use Trax should be the first
priority, not the nuclear option of congestion pricing.
"Gil Bates - Mayfield, UTApril 2, 2019 1:22 p.m.Here's a
revenue idea: Automated speeding tickets"The Photo-Cop has
already been tried and struck down as not constitutional, seeing as how you
cannot guarantee that the registered owner of the vehicle is the driver of the
vehicle at the time the vehicle was tagged. Sandy City was doing this 20 years
ago, and if memory serves (city may be wrong), and it turns out that some
officer's child had a lead foot one day, and the officer was dinged with
the ticket. That did not pass a court challenge, so this idea is DOA.The state of Texas uses red-light cameras, but the bigger problem with this is
that there's only a couple of companies in the country that make the camera
systems that can be used to do this kind of enforcement, and they get it written
into their contracts that they get a cut of the fines that their systems catch.
I believe there was an article on this in the DN a few years ago, but I'm
"Here's a revenue idea: Automated speeding tickets."Do
speeders actually create much congestion? Or merely offend someone's
sensibilities? I'll happily accept photo-radar and red light cameras if we
simultaneously implement automated tickets for left-lane lollygaggers and those
who yak or text on their cell phones while driving. Anyone looking at their cell
phone when the red light changes green should get a ticket for impeding
traffic.To reduce congestion:1-Stop encouraging growth
in high population areas. Instead do economic development in rural areas.2-Build new roads. A new 2 lane road like Legacy does more to reduce
congestion than does adding 2 lanes to an existing road.3-Convert
the grossly under-utilized HOV/Toll lane to a regular passing lane. More cars
can use it and we don't congest the passing lane with cars entering or
exiting the Toll lane.4-Ticket left lane lolly-gaggers for not
moving right.5-Ticket cell phone users for taking too long to notice
the red light has changed to green.6-Anyone who complains that
freeway traffic moves too fast should lose their freeway access privileges and
be given a bus pass.
Here's a revenue idea: Automated speeding tickets.You drive
down I-15 and a computer reads your license plate number and documents your
speed between point A and point B. They send you a speeding ticket by mail.Just change the law to make the registered owner liable for tickets.Problem solved.
You could improve traffic flow by just eliminating the HOV lane and opening up
that empty lane to everyone.
It's rather inevitable if we're going to add over a million people
between Salt Lake County and Utah County over the next 30 years.
Increased tolls would not be a market incentive, it would be a disincentive. I
expect most people would just accept it as an additional fee to get to their
jobs, and employers would slightly raise salaries to compensate. The only
winners would be the toll collectors.An incentive would be something
like a public transit system that is faster and cheaper than driving (which we
obviously don't have), or giving carpoolers a break on vehicle registration
fees or gas tax credits. In other words, something that rewards the
behavior you want to encourage instead of punishing the behavior you want to
WHY-WHY-WHY-WHY is EVERY solution from government either an increased fee or a
tax? Bureaucrats have no way of solving anything without gouging more folks.
They build an HOV lane and instead of being smart like Phoenix and enforce it
only during rush hour traffic, they restrict it 24-7. Everyone paid for it but
you can't use it at 2:00 AM unless you pay for it...ridiculous. And the
other lanes wear out sooner because the traffic isn't spread onto all the
lanes. The UHP committed to employing troopers paid from these revenues just to
enforce the HOV restrictions (which are plenty silly with the double solid white
line that you can't enter or leave the lane as necessary to keep traffic
moving) and that has NEVER happened. What did they do with the extra money?
The legislature and UDOT just are lacking in ability to do anything that will
work, always looking at some liberal, taxing freedom-ending other State to set
the pattern for them. Not surprisingly (unfortunately) is that the DesNews
supports these types of efforts.
keep those taxes coming
If a new fee, toll, or tax were to be imposed I'd worry about how it'd
be spent. Decades ago, if my 88-yr-old memory serves me, a bond was passed to
fund synchronization of all downtown and main arterial traffic lights so that if
you traveled at 40 mph, you'd seldom have to stop at a red light, thereby
reducing idling emissions and keeping traffic moving at a steady pace. Did the
proposed synchronization ever happen? I don't believe so. And where did
the bond money go? Anybody's guess!
Anything, especially related to taxes or fees or political policy coming from
New York, or California is a really bad idea, always based on nanny state and
big government knows best policies.Better options to reduce traffic snarls
are to stagger work hours, telecommute, carpool, mass transit, or the obvious
one- build more roads.Any politician proposing "New York
solutions" should be voted out of office, or never elected in the first
place. Same for editorial writers.
That is a bad idea because for many jobs you don't have much of a say in
when to go into work. For instance, you can't have half of your
manufacturing team come in at 8 AM and the rest at 9 AM.If you want
to cut congestion you have to open up the arteries.All this plan
does is just add to congestion at other times, or will just create another
tax.If they really want to reduce congestion they would make it so
that people would want to join a van pool. Make that enticing and you have a
chance.To "marxist" so you want to replace capitalists with
government. Is the government any more benevolent? If the government offered
free bus fares during peak traffic time, who will pay for that? If you are
worried about capitalists controlling the poor, why not worry about government
doing the same?
Sounds like a good idea to me - and use the money to improve roads and provide
free UTA transit during congested times so alternatives exist to using cars and
the poor are not left without transit. I particularly like the idea of incoming
tolls to SL County since this is what provides much of the gridlock and
pollution in the valley.
I'm all for it as long as it's done right. Everyday, 100,000's of
thousands of people drive in from Weber, Davis and Utah Counties. They wear and
clog Salt Lake County (that "liberal" County where they receive their
paychecks) roads and pollute our air. Install toll roads entering SL County. No
toll to leave. Use that money to fix roads and clean our air.
Why punish the poor? Financial penalties like this disproportionately hurt
those with lower incomes, many of whom need to go into a "congested
area" to work, while not really affecting the wealthy at all. That's
not fair in any sense of the word. All fair-minded citizens should oppose this
proposal and all like it.
This is an April Fools joke, right?
New York and example of how to manage anything...Yeah right!
@zabilde"Yes, lets ease congestion by pricing the poor off the
freeways."Oh, so now we care about the poor, do we?
The market is a great allocation tool, but socialists like me worry about who
will be hurt more by congestion pricing - lower income folk. Adam Smith
promised a market utopia where none have market power, but this is not the case.
Capital holds most of the cards and labor is always under duress.I
propose zero pricing for UTA during high congestion periods.
@we the people"Sounds like a new tax to me. Taxes are always a
liberal idea."Really...always? Tell that to my property taxes,
passed by a conservative Republican legislature and signed into law by a
conservative Republican governor.But I digress.Honestly,
you conservatives should be standing and applauding at this market-based
solution to our traffic woes. It's merely supply and demand! When a service
is in high demand, capitalism says you should expect to pay more.
No way. Don't even go there.
Keep your fingers out of my pockets! That's the problem with these two
states! They tax, tax, tax!
Who wrote this editorial? They claim this "solution" is market-based,
yet in the very next sentence note that this is the opposite of centrally
planned markets.Who owns practically every road in this state? Who
would be setting the prices?In a true market, there wouldn't be
a monopoly like the government has, so each owner would have to be competing
with other roads to set a price low enough to be competitive. This situation is
the very definition of a monopoly--limiting the supply of roads to artificially
increase the price
We don't need to copy everything New York or California does. Both states
are deeply in debt . Not because they don't tax enough but their policies
are flawed. ---- Be careful who you follow
Yes, lets ease congestion by pricing the poor off the freeways.No,
this is not a good idea. We've already paid and continue to pay for the
roads via our taxes. A Free market only exists and works when there can be
competition. But there isn't any competition for I-15 or any other
freeway. The state owns them all. The state charging citizens to use something
they already paid and continue to pay the state to use is not free market. Nor
can transportation really ever be free market. The State owns the Freeways and
maintains them. There is not room for a competitor to enter the market. Where
would this competing freeway be built, and by whom.Sorry charging
tolls on our freeways is NOT free-market. There is no market, as there is only
one option, the roads that the state owns already that we already pay to use.
The HOV lanes should not be toll either. They should be HOV or stay out.
Sounds like a new tax to me. Taxes are always a liberal idea. Liberal ideas