Michigan settlement in favor of LGBTQ couples leaves faith-based adoption agencies wondering what's next

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  • Ranch Here, UT
    March 26, 2019 8:36 a.m.

    TheRealDJT says:

    "Right to free exercise of religion: Clearly enunciated in the Constitution.

    "Right" to *force* any adoption agency to serve Gay couples: Mentioned nowhere.

    It seems obvious that this is another newly imagined "right" that is really just a "want" involving forcing everyone else to acquiesce to a fringe group. The Liberal-Left's war on all traditional American moral and cultural values continues. They seem to be winning."

    --

    Right to free exercise of religion: Clearly enunciated in the Constitution.

    "Right" to *taxpayer funds* to operate your religious organization: Mentioned nowhere.

    It seems more like it’s the “religious” who are “forcing everyone else to acquiesce to a fringe group.”  Fringe superstitions have no right to operate on the taxpayer dime.

    @BackTalk;

    Lets hope the SCOTUS will stop the harassment of LGBT folks by "religious" folks who seem to think they're above the law.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    March 26, 2019 8:17 a.m.

    Ahhh the tolerance of the LGBTQ movement.

    Capitulate to their beliefs and ways of life or in other words, completely endorse their way or....

    wait for it...

    Its all out war against you!
    Boycotts, lawsuits harassment and attacks on your religious beliefs.

    Only the Supreme Court can fix this nonsense.

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    March 25, 2019 12:53 p.m.

    Religious organizations and non profit services agencys like these should not be forced to go against their religious values in order to serve for the public good.

    Tax dollars can go to LGBT couples by many other agencys. Tax dollars can also go to couples who chose to work with a religiously affiliated agency. No discrimination by the state is condoned in this manor. THe State is simply serving the whole public with this vital service.

    Lets hope the Supreme Court can soon stop this harassment by LGBT Groups and firmly establish the right of people, private schools and religious affiliated service agencys to serve the members of the public in accordance with their values.

  • tothemoon Centerville, UT
    March 25, 2019 12:10 p.m.

    I know part of the priesthood ban being overturned is because BYU was afraid they were going to lose federal funding because of discrimination. I would imagine LGBT issues isn't far behind in that respect.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    March 25, 2019 8:55 a.m.

    What's next?

    How about follow the law.

    And "do unto others as you would have done unto you". Would you like to be denied services because your beliefs differ from someone else? Then don't do that to same sex couples and try to excuse it by wresting the words if Jesus.

  • Cambodian Girl Annapolis, MD
    March 25, 2019 6:29 a.m.

    As a business owner, once the government is involved, you have basically turned yourself over to them to make the decisions for you. Keep government out. Unfortunately, we don't have a say as to where our taxes go. I believe everyone should be able to send their tax dollars to whom ever they will.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    March 24, 2019 12:12 p.m.

    @drich wrote,

    "No one is thinking of the children here and what's next for them."

    @drich, how many kids have you adopted?

    Utah prides itself on its caring for families. But as I write this, there are, in Utah alone, over a hundred children available for adoption. No, they are not healthy Caucasian babies. Most of them are school age, and all have been abused or neglected, frequently both. But all are beautiful, and all deserve a home where they are loved and wanted.

    Now if only there were an organization in Utah that had branches in every town and hamlet, a comprehensive social services network, and a commitment to families, that would take on this issue---then the number would be what it should be: zero.
    7 LikeReport

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    March 24, 2019 8:42 a.m.

    Iceman.."That is what society used to say to African Americans - separate but equal. Separate is not equal, Jim Crow demonstrated that. "

    This point needs to be made over and over with all of the separate but equal excuses (they are doing good, what about the children, they can just go somewhere else).

    The organization is receiving govt. funding, all citizens deserve their services...period.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    March 24, 2019 5:51 a.m.

    "The children should be the focus, not a the gay community's demand for acceptance."

    Gay people don't go to adoption agencies, bakers, florists, etc. to gain acceptance. They go for the same reason straight people go: to adopt, buy wedding cakes, buy flowers, etc. It is certain adoption agencies, bakers, and florists that are making this about acceptance, specifically THEIR acceptance.

    So please stop laying this at the feet of gay people. They aren't seeking any special carve outs. They aren't seeking anything above and beyond what straight people get.

    The ones who are actually demanding something special are religious people/organizations with certain beliefs. They are the ones demanding codification of their disapproval. They are the ones demanding that government give them exactly what government is enjoined from doing: granting special status to certain beliefs.

    The problem isn't gay people. It's people who insist on making transactions in the public marketplace about them and their beliefs. IMO, this is one of the side effects that religion can have. It can induce otherwise thoughtful, giving people to be blindly self-centered.

  • PLM Kaysville, UT
    March 23, 2019 11:36 p.m.

    Why don’t we tell the government to stop taxing us for social programs? Let us fund who we will. I donate to pro life organizations, I will take my former tax dollars and use them to support Christian charities and adoption by loving Christ-centered families. The government’s intrusion into my private, personal funds has been going on too long and I feel discriminated against.

  • IcemanCometh SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 23, 2019 9:50 p.m.

    @sknny tires fat skis - "The fact that a gay couple can go to another equally accessible adoption center only makes the harm to the children more inexcusable."

    That is what society used to say to African Americans - separate but equal. Separate is not equal, Jim Crow demonstrated that.

    However, your point is moot because that is not the issue. The issue is the government by giving public monies to an organization that discriminates is a de-facto endorsement.

    From Sandra Day O'Connor: Endorsement sends a message to non-adherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.

    And that violates the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    March 23, 2019 9:42 p.m.

    @sknny tires fat skis -
    If your concern is truly the children then it would seem your Angst should be directed at organizations turning away qualified parents not with the patmrents that are ready and willing to adopt.

  • CitizenJ Park City, UT
    March 23, 2019 8:10 p.m.

    This ruling doesn’t violate any “religious rights”. Any service entity operating in the public domain with the support of public funds is required not to discriminate against protected classes of people.
    If they want to discriminate against protected classes of people for religious reasons their provision of services and funding should be constrained within the structure of the religious organization.

  • PorLibertad Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2019 7:35 p.m.

    @Lilly Munster:

    That is what it means to stand up for principle and hold on to your values. It will not be popular or comfortable, but that is the price to be paid for following your deeply held beliefs. Go read your scriptures as well as the teachings of the modern prophets and and apostles and see if that isn't what they have taught. Yes, it is a loney road to travel at times, but that is the price for discipleship.

  • dmcvey Los Angeles, CA
    March 23, 2019 7:13 p.m.

    This is good. Faith based businesses shouldn't be recieving government money or advancement. If a business wants to discriminate against other citizens they shouldn't get tax dollars.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    March 23, 2019 6:57 p.m.

    StandAlone

    “And what if a child wants to be adopted by a mother and a father and no one else?”

    Those faith-based agencies can still make those choices. If, however, the faith-based agencies want to take tax dollars to provide services on behalf of the state, they cannot pick and choose which taxpayers they will serve. Withdrawing tax support is a win for all: the church can legally discriminate with impunity and the state can spend those tax revenues serving all citizens.

  • StandAlone South Jordan, UT
    March 23, 2019 5:41 p.m.

    And what if a child wants to be adopted by a mother and a father and no one else? Who is considering the rights of the child?
    Why do homosexuals seek out Catholic adoption agencies when there are plenty of non-Christian agencies to choose from? It appears they delight in seeing people get hurt when it comes to war on traditional values.

    @Applelovernow

    Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's right.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    March 23, 2019 5:12 p.m.

    @TheRealDJT

    “Right to free exercise of religion: Clearly enunciated in the Constitution.”

    Not with government handouts, however.

  • sknny tires fat skis Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2019 5:08 p.m.

    The best interest of the children should trump.

    Why does a gay couples' interest in forcing religious communities into accepting their sexual conduct trump the interests of the children who are receiving competent care from a religious organization. The children should be the focus, not a the gay community's demand for acceptance.

    The fact that a gay couple can go to another equally accessible adoption center only makes the harm to the children more inexcusable.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    March 23, 2019 4:31 p.m.

    @David R

    “The adoption agencies at issue here are Catholic charities. They aren't businesses for profit. They're doing a charitable service. Even though they receive some state funding, they aren't making money off the state or taxpayers”

    With vast amounts of gold deposits, some of the greatest art work ever produced, and billions of dollar assets on deposit why does the Catholic Church need Caesar’s penny at all? If they were to sell off a fraction of their properties they would have enough to cover their churches and charities for a couple of lifetimes. Then, there’s that whole tax exempt thing.

    “In fact, they relieve the state and taxpayers of costs for the children the state and taxpayers bear.”

    Unless you are LGBT. Then they do nothing more than relieve you of your dollars.

    “It's a message of intolerance...”

    Intolerance by and against whom?

    “good Catholic people trying to live in accordance with Biblical beliefs”

    Which biblical belief says orphaned children will not be placed with loving and completely qualified LGBT adults? It’s clearly not found in Matthew 22:15-22.

  • TheRealDJT Sandy, UT
    March 23, 2019 3:50 p.m.

    Right to free exercise of religion: Clearly enunciated in the Constitution.

    "Right" to *force* any adoption agency to serve Gay couples: Mentioned nowhere.

    It seems obvious that this is another newly imagined "right" that is really just a "want" involving forcing everyone else to acquiesce to a fringe group. The Liberal-Left's war on all traditional American moral and cultural values continues. They seem to be winning.

    Remember in 2020.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    March 23, 2019 3:42 p.m.

    The simple answer is that the State should not be in the business of deciding who to subsidize on any issue. Strangle the power of government by stopping the funding.
    Then, let charitable organizations service whomever they please.

    Why should faith-based people allow their tax money to be channeled to things like gay adoption of Planned Parenthood *at all*. It is as if the decision that we have to fund immorality is assumed. But we don't!

  • Lilly Munster , 00
    March 23, 2019 1:36 p.m.

    This LDS family of over 60 souls, living in the heart of the Midwest Bible Belt, ask all LDS adults, safely tucked away in Utah and Idaho, to ask us what it is really like to live where LDS Americans are regularly insulted, belittled, bullied and discriminated against. In schools, PTA meetings, public meetings, and in the marketplace.....the bias and verbal insults never stop. That will give you an idea of what supporting and excusing any form of discrimination really results in. Be careful what you demand. Be careful what you fail to oppose.

  • David R Northern, MI
    March 23, 2019 1:29 p.m.

    The adoption agencies at issue here are Catholic charities. They aren't businesses for profit. They're doing a charitable service. Even though they receive some state funding, they aren't making money off the state or taxpayers. In fact, they relieve the state and taxpayers of costs for the children the state and taxpayers bear. There are other adoption agencies that cater to same sex marriages, so nobody lacked services. This change helps nobody. It's a message of intolerance to good Catholic people trying to live in accordance with Biblical beliefs and help place children and families. They are doing a good work and should be lauded for what they do.

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    March 23, 2019 12:55 p.m.

    Several readers are claiming that this court ruling somehow discriminates against faith based (which in this court case means Evangelical Christian) charities. Did anyone else notice that every one lives in Utah or one of the surrounding states? I suggest you try living for even a year in Oklahoma or Alabama or rural South Carolina where there is palpable discrimination against most anybody who is not an Evangelical Christian, preferably Southern Baptist. Straight, married couples who are Mormon or Catholic can tell you stories about blatant discrimination against Christians who are not the "right" kind of Christian.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2019 11:47 a.m.

    @IJ
    "Why is it that LGBTQ can't go to an agency that has no religious beliefs one way or the other than pick on those that do. Tolerance goes both ways"

    Tolerance isn't telling people to go somewhere else, and this is quite disingenuous considering that the shift in popular opinion is the only thing stopping there from being bans on same-sex marriage and same-sex adoption.

  • BJMoose Syracuse, UT
    March 23, 2019 11:46 a.m.

    “Outcomes like the Michigan settlement harm religious people who are trying to do good in the world, they say.”
    Complete fallacy. They aren’t trying to do good. They’re trying to discriminate towards a specific segment of the population. And allowing others the same rights that you have in no way harms you.

  • IcemanCometh SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 23, 2019 10:01 a.m.

    Read former SCOTUS Judge Sandra Day O'Connor's writing regarding the Endorsement test.

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    March 23, 2019 9:42 a.m.

    Several years ago, Catholic adoption services in MA, accepting state money,
    had placed children with gay couples.
    Eventually, it was reported in the local newspaper, eventually resulting in Catholic services in MA no longer participating in adoptions.

    So here we are again. Religious organizations can’t accept govt money and discriminate. Religious organizations can, however, use their own resources to facilitate adoptions.

  • Bountiful Guy Bountiful, UT
    March 23, 2019 9:03 a.m.

    The solution to ending discrimination is simple. Discriminate against faith-based organizations.
    This revenge hurts children, just like many politically correct solutions. I truly hope funding can be obtained in other ways. I surely would not want government to take over everything in my life. The Green New Steal strikes out again for me.

  • drich Green River, Utah
    March 23, 2019 9:01 a.m.

    No one is thinking of the children here and what's next for them.

  • Furry1993 MSC, UT
    March 23, 2019 8:46 a.m.

    "When you accept taxpayer funds to provide this really important government service, you can't throw away good families based on religious criteria that have no relationship to your ability to care for the child," said Leslie Cooper who is deputy director of the American Civil Liberties Union's LGBT & HIV Project. Leslie Cooper is right. If these adoption agencies want to be free to practice prejudicial disrimination and bigotry, they should do it on their own dime and with contributions from like-minded discriminators, NOT on funds contributed by the general public.

  • blackattack Orem, UT
    March 23, 2019 8:48 a.m.

    The writing was on the wall for faith based adoption agencies when gay marriage was passed nationally.

  • Furry1993 MSC, UT
    March 23, 2019 8:44 a.m.

    @Mainly Me - March 22, 2019 10:29 p.m.
    This needs to be appealed to the Supreme Court. Hopefully, it will be overturned.
    -----
    Actually the reverse is true -- this settlement needs to be followed, and put in place, in all jurisdictions. There is absolutely no reason to deny LGBT individuals and couples the opportunity to be adoptive parents. They are just as good and qualified, and provide just as good and nurturing homes, as heterosexuals. Children will prosper and grow in the care of same-sex parents, jut as they would prosper and grow in the care of opposite-sex parents. In some cases, the child would benefit from being placed with same-sex parents (example -- when the child has been abused by a parent and the same-sex couple are of the other gender).

    Additionally, this is an issue that concerns allocation of public funds (funds that both same sex attracted and other sex attracted individuals contribute). If they are going to contribute the money, they deserve to get the full range of benefits to which the money is distributed.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    March 23, 2019 8:38 a.m.

    The adoption agencies who have a problem working with same sex couples are saying the following:

    1. Our religious beliefs say we should discriminate against these couples.
    2. The same sex couples are not hurt; they can just go to another agency.
    3. We want to keep discriminating without losing state money. Our religious organization isn't willing to pay for it ourselves.
    4. We'll shut down if we can't keep discriminating on the state's dime. Then all of these deserving children will not be placed in homes.

    But this logic is faulty. The same sex couples could, indeed, go to another agency that follows the law. Why couldn't the other prospective parents do the same?

  • Applelovernow Henderson, NV
    March 23, 2019 8:32 a.m.

    Have to agree with the ACLU on this one. Faith based organizations need
    to quit taking Federal funds. Same sex marriage is the law of the land.

  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    March 23, 2019 8:27 a.m.

    So who is being discriminated against? It seems no matter how the government of Michigan or any other state rules, there will be discrimination. The difference being that the constitution prohibits the government from interfering with religious beliefs but says nothing about a persons sexual preference.

    Why is it that LGBTQ can't go to an agency that has no religious beliefs one way or the other than pick on those that do. Tolerance goes both ways and in this case, the children suffer because one side wants to push their agenda.

  • RoxyLynne Madison, IN
    March 23, 2019 7:56 a.m.

    And since faith based adoption agencies won't adjust their standards, you will lose all those who have offered this valuable service to families. Maybe that is their end game.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    March 23, 2019 7:45 a.m.

    Just like the Colorado cake baking case, the couple that sued can go elsewhere to adopt. They don't have to use any faith based organization to adopt.

    That said, religious organizations should just quit taking money from the government. If so, the problem is solved.

  • toshi1066 OGDEN, UT
    March 23, 2019 7:35 a.m.

    What happens next?

    Little children get adopted into loving families that's what happens next.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    March 23, 2019 6:34 a.m.

    Let those giving up their baby choose the couple the baby will go to. This will solve most of the problem. People giving up their baby should have this choice anyway.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    March 23, 2019 6:29 a.m.

    Tax payer money should not be used to support any discriminatory practice. That includes Universities receiving Federal funds and grants.

    In my opinion, this is the perfect course of action to prevent that, but still allow the faith based organizations to carry out their discrimination as their beliefs dictate.

    New sources of funding should be easily resolved by faith based solutions. For example, perhaps reprioritizing the billions of dollars spent on buildings and real estate.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    March 23, 2019 6:24 a.m.

    Discrimination is a beautiful word, positive word, when you go buy a home or a car, you discriminate, you make the best choice possible; it is wrong to discriminate against people, yet we do this in dating and courting and marriage and who we spend our time with, and who we hire and what career to choose and it is wrong to oppose bright perfect smart religion and it is wrong to worship fragile, weak, aging government and foolish law suit. Freedom and truth will win. Beautiful, pretty, nice, gorgeous, fun, exciting, kind capitalism will win. One million words in English language and some people only speak one word: discrimination. Pro choice people are pro discriminate people. Go tell the world discrimination is your favorite word and friend. Oh, and science knows religious people live longer.

  • rickmac37 , 00
    March 23, 2019 6:03 a.m.

    Sadly the children are the only hurt by this stupid decision.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    March 23, 2019 5:40 a.m.

    What the Becket Fund, the fundamentalist Christian lobby group, is asking for is for government to pay for religious discrimination with public money. As pointed out by the article, Christian Charities who do no wish to place children in same-sex households are free to do so, With Their Own Money. Their right to "expression" and "association" are protected. However, their "right to government funding" is not, according to this action.

    It can not be argued that these Christian Discriminating Charities don't do good works. However if we are to be a nation that believes that all are equal in the eyes of the law and deserve equal protection under the law, and that government has no business subsidizing discrimination, then we won't collectively pay for fundamentalist Christian sects to discriminate.

    Sadly, it is indeed a problem that children might suffer, all because some Christian charities favor dogma over their best interests. It is not a matter of faith, it is a matter of experience and science, that children raised in a loving same sex family fare just as well as kids in heterosexual families.

    It is time for Christian charities to end their culture war. We know better.

  • rlynn Brandon, FL
    March 23, 2019 4:23 a.m.

    Great news!! You take my tax money, then don't provided services to me, then I won't give you money. Simple as that. Charity organizations are not a Church.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    March 23, 2019 4:19 a.m.

    Stop taking public money, or stop discriminating against same sex couples.

    It is simple.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    March 23, 2019 2:12 a.m.

    "the state will no longer contract with and send taxpayer money to faith-based adoption or foster care agencies that won't work with same-sex couples for religious reasons."

    A 100% correct decision. If religious organizations wish to feed a Caesar's trough they must abide by Caesar's rules. Faith-based religious adoption and foster care agencies are more the welcomed to discriminate against LGBTQ on their own dime. As soon as they decide they want to take tax dollars or choose to act on behalf of the state by contracting their services they are no longer a faith-based agent.

  • Zion_in_Babylon Beverly Hills, CA
    March 23, 2019 1:18 a.m.

    Liberalism (and all its other isms and ideologies) is the State religion of Babylon, mandated and forced on everybody.

  • J in the Desert Maricopa, AZ
    March 23, 2019 12:23 a.m.

    Perhaps it would be better for faith-based social service organizations nationally to walk away from working with government. At any level, the sudden loss of resources would deliver a strong message to the bureaucrats. And, not taking the money of the state limits the control of the state over the organization.

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    March 22, 2019 10:29 p.m.

    This needs to be appealed to the Supreme Court. Hopefully, it will be overturned.