Boeing to make safety feature standard on troubled Max jets

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  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 22, 2019 11:58 a.m.

    @Third try
    RE: "You're are having control problems and a light comes on telling you not to trust the sensor data. Sure, that'll fix things"...
    ---
    It's not a matter of a light telling you to not trust the sensor. The pilots knew they were not in a stall. They couldn't override the automated nose down in time.

    The safety system automatically turns the nose down if it senses a stall. And won't let the pilot override it with the stick (even if auto-pilot is off).

    The automation forcing the plane's nose down is intended to save lives (in a stall). But in this case it crashed the plane.

    In the 2008 cases the pilots were lucky the system thought the stall was over, and gave them back control of the plane just in time to pull out of the dive.

    In the more recent cases they evidently weren't as lucky. The automation put the nose down and kept it there.

    The auto-nose-down enhancement was mandated by the FAA after stalls caused crashes. Then came the AirBus incidents. To remedy that the FAA mandated an enhancement to allow pilots to take manual control away from the automated nose down. These pilots were evidently not trained on how to do that. Training issue.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2019 6:49 a.m.

    Back in the fifties a real pilot flew by seat of his pants.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    March 21, 2019 4:30 p.m.

    Perfect. You are having control problems and a light comes on telling you not to trust the sensor data. Sure, that'll fix things.

    I learned to drive in 1970. All the cars I drove had rear wheel drive. Anti-lock brakes weren't available for another 20 years.

    But ABS and FWD became the standard over time. And these two features make cars handle very differently. What you do in an emergency is entirely different on cars with these systems.

    The answer was: Learn how to drive again. Know what kind of car you are driving. Know it well enough so that you can handle a crisis on the road.

    Max is the same thing. It's NOT a 737. Train-train-train.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2019 3:05 p.m.

    Think there will be similar problems when our cars are "Highly Automated" like these highly automated and highly safe airplanes?

    I do.

    Sometimes the systems you put in place to make you safer... can actually kill you.

    Think there will never be a sensor problem in a Tesla? Hint... there's already been a lot.

    Think they won't result in deaths? Hint... they already have.

    How many of you have never bought a used car that didn't have something that didn't function 100% as it should. Or had a car that got old and something broke or malfunctioned? If that something is in your cars sensors or automation... guess what. You find out it was broke when you crash. Hopefully you aren't going very fast at the time.

    I think we can rely too much on automation. In the air, and on the ground.

    I don't want to be the one in front of you on the freeway when your Tesla has a malfunction and doesn't see me, or tells the car to speed up when it's actually supposed to stop (like these planes that were instructed to nose dive to save the plane from stalling when they were flying level).

    It will happen.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2019 1:57 p.m.

    RE: "The sensors measure whether the plane is pointed up, down or level in relation to the direction of onrushing air. Software on the Max can push the plane's nose down if data from one of the sensors indicates the plane is tilted up so sharply that it could stall and fall from the sky"...
    ---
    If that's the problem... it's not new.

    Google "Qantas Flight 72 - Wikipedia"...
    ---
    2008:
    Qantas Airways Flight 72 from Singapore to Perth, Australia. Suddenly, the highly automated A-330 (AirBus) fires off a series of contradictory warnings and repeatedly nosedives toward the Indian Ocean"...

    Spoiler Alert:
    The near crash was caused by a faulty sensor that told the automated systems the plane was at a steep angle and about to stall, so it automatically pushed the nose down. Which almost killed everybody. Ironically... This automation was added to save lives (prevent stalls) after other crashes.

    The 2008 remedy was to give pilots a way to quickly override a faulty IRU. Boeing did this. Pilots were trying to figure out the procedure (from the manual) at the time of the crash. They should have been trained in simulator before it happened.