New Zealand to observe Muslim prayer after mosque attacks

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  • OldSalt94 West Jordan, UT
    March 23, 2019 12:52 p.m.

    For those claiming that founders had muskets and that is all we should have today...then let’s go back quill pens and ink pots and send your comments in by horse or foot messenger.
    It is sad that a dictatorial style of government can be compared to a constitutional republic as being better.
    It is also sad that hundreds of Christians were murdered in Africa and it is a passing footnote. By the very nature of an entire nation performing a religious function for those lost would be met with so much animosity here. True no one is forcing them to perforce prayers or two minutes of silence, but if Americans were asked to do a Christian version. Certain parties would be outraged and file lawsuits with the aclu so fast...
    I mourn for any loss of life needlessly taken, even by abortion.

  • Lib on Planet Zion Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2019 11:14 a.m.

    NoNamesAccepted - St. George, UT

    “What does the medical system in France have to do with the medical system in Australia”?

    Reading comprehension helps tremendously. The system in France is very similar to that of Australia. Both have socialized medicine that yourself and fellow members of the low information demographic rant about daily, without of course possessing any firsthand experience whatsoever.

    “then why are you and your fiance living here rather than there”?

    The deflection continues. Apparently you have absolutely nothing of substance to offer, while applying the identical logic your Mormon ancestors experienced. Very well. We also have a home in France. Serene TrocadÉro in the 16th. Furthermore. I have family in SLC/PC and own several business throughout Utah and California. We leave next week after some skiing and head to Carmel to visit more family. Where are you moving once you become the minority in Utah? Lastly. You realize the ongoing attempt at deflection is an epic failure and doesn’t change the factual information regarding the healthcare care system in France, Australia or any other civilized country that has socialized medicine. You’re welcome.

  • military mom Herriman, UT
    March 22, 2019 7:26 a.m.

    It's interesting to note that a vital part of this article is ignored in all of the comments, that of the extraordinary efforts by the Prime Minister and New Zealand citizens to honor and empathize with the Muslim community after this horrific event, especially considering that most of the victims and their families are immigrants. When our president could not even use the term "Muslim" in his feeble attempt at offering solace, it's inspiring and humbling to see real empathy, concern, and Christian values on display.

  • Utefan60 , 00
    March 22, 2019 6:20 a.m.

    NoNamesAccepted - St. George, UT, typical commnet from the radical right...."if you don't like it, why do you live here?"

    No, St. George, liberals have made this counry better for you and all that live here. You enjoy Social Security, and Medicare due to "liberal's. You enjoy the fruits of honest people making changes, but demand they leave when they don't follow the radical right's thinking?

    Liberals see things that need to change and they move to change it!

    When a honest man sees something that needs to be changed, they don't just move, they fight to make it better.

    Health Care, deficits, Medicare, Social Security, civil rights for all, womens rights, and other amazing benefits have been made because of "liberals". You "Conservatives" can claim Trump and that crime spree. That's on you, not on those of us making this country much better.

    We are not going to move, nor will we listen to rants that we must move if we don't like it. That is the rant of those who can not defend that which becomes indefensible.

    BTW, did Obama ever knock on your door and take your guns away? My guess is you stocked up when that falsehood was spread.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    March 22, 2019 2:12 a.m.

    @StandAlone
    "The UK has some of the toughest gun control laws in the world, but they surpass New York's murder rate. "

    NYC's homicide rate in 2016 was 3.4 per 100k. The UK's homicide rate was 1.2 per 100k. The US and Western European countries have similar non-gun homicide rates but total homicide rates are much higher here because we have an order of magnitude higher gun homicide rate than they do.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 21, 2019 10:05 p.m.

    @Lib on Planet Zion: "Absolute nonsense. My fiancÉe is from France. The French health care system is generally recognized as offering one of the best services of public health care in the world. Above all, it is a system that works, provides universal cover, and is a system that is strongly defended by virtually everyone in France."

    1-What does the medical system in France have to do with the medical system in Australia?

    2-If the healthcare system, and gun laws, and liquor laws, and general secular nature of France are all so much better than what we have in the USA and in Utah, then why are you and your fiance living here rather than there?

    I may be wrong about my view of the world. I may be a fool. But I live my life honestly in accord with my professed beliefs. I think Utah is one of the best places to live because of our gun, alcohol, and other laws and culture. So I live here. If I thought it was a terrible place, I'd move to a place I thought was better.

    Why do so many liberals refuse to live where they claim to like the laws and culture, but instead live where they hate everything and everyone?

  • Lib on Planet Zion Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:06 p.m.

    Mainly Me - Werribee, 00

    “I live in Australia which has socialized medicine. It doesn't work. You have waiting lists for surgery that go on for years. If you need a knee replacement, you'll wait a couple of years for that. If you need to see a specialist, you'll have to pay extra for that, too. The public hospitals resemble something from the '60s. We also have private medicine, too. You buy a plan and it works. No waiting lists, better hospitals, and better care. You have a far greater chance of dying in a public hospital vs. a private hospital.”

    Absolute nonsense. My fiancÉe is from France. The French health care system is generally recognized as offering one of the best services of public health care in the world. Above all, it is a system that works, provides universal cover, and is a system that is strongly defended by virtually everyone in France. The health care system in France is made up of a fully-integrated network of public hospitals, private hospitals, doctors and other medical service providers. It is a universal service providing health care for every citizen, irrespective of wealth, age or social status. Rather propaganda try factual information. You’re welcome.

  • WallE Walla Walla, WA
    March 21, 2019 8:39 p.m.

    @ Stand Alone

    "The UK has some of the toughest gun control laws in the world, but they surpass New York's murder rate."

    I'm curious where you got this fact. Wikipedia shows a murder rater for the UK at 1.2/100K, New York at 3.4/100K and 5.35/100K for the US. These are consistent 2016 stats.

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    March 21, 2019 6:19 p.m.

    @Hutterite -

    "This isn't about their liberty; it's about ours. We haven't the courage to do what they did."

    Actually, we have the common sense to not do what they did. Our Founding Fathers knew this which is why they wrote the Second Amendment.

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    March 21, 2019 6:18 p.m.

    @Liberal On Planet Zion -

    "How many times have you visited New Zealand?"

    I live in Australia which has socialized medicine. It doesn't work. You have waiting lists for surgery that go on for years. One person I worked with needs her defective thyroid removed. Since it's considered "elective" surgery, she's been on a waiting list for 4 years now. If you need a knee replacement, you'll wait a couple of years for that. If you need to see a specialist, you'll have to pay extra for that, too. The public hospitals resemble something from the '60s.

    We also have private medicine, too. You buy a plan and it works. No waiting lists, better hospitals, and better care. You have a far greater chance of dying in a public hospital vs. a private hospital.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    March 21, 2019 5:50 p.m.

    Proper training and respect for the firearms is most important, ask any person who has is properly trained.

    I cannot believe in the year 2019 gun shops sell pistols and high capacity assault weapon without proper training.

    HOW STUPID IS THAT!

  • wgirl , 00
    March 21, 2019 4:18 p.m.

    A gun owning rural farmer from NZ said the following in an interview I heard yesterday:

    "I'm a gun owner. I use guns to shoot pests around my place. I don't need or use rapid fire assault type rifles or high capacity magazines to shoot pests. Assault rifles and high capacity magazines are designed to kill people."

    Yup. That is a reasonable answer.

    There is no logic or reason in our U.S. gun debate.

    Guns are now identity. They are not tools. Any effort at all to limit types of guns sold, restrict the amount of guns and ammunition a person can stockpile, to do research on gun deaths, or any other gun control measure is seen as an attack on the Constitution - the very country - the identity of people who own guns.

    After Sandy Hook - where 20 little children were murdered in seconds - I stopped believing there was anything that could shock American's enough to insist on reasonable gun control measures.

    The answer to how to stop gun violence seems to be "more guns!"

  • birwin Herrmian, UT
    March 21, 2019 4:15 p.m.

    "You realize that in early America, citizens could own unlimited size of cannons."

    LOL - If someone starts chasing me with a cannon, I wonder if I can outrun them?

    BTW - Do they have bumpstocks for cannons? (he he)

  • Liberal On Planet Zion SLC, UT
    March 21, 2019 4:07 p.m.

    Ted - Saint George, UT
    “New Zealand doesn't need guns, they have the Haka. When defending your home from an intruder, just break out the fiercest Haka moves ever and the criminal will take off running.”

    “St. George crime statistics report an overall downward trend in crime based on data from 11 years with violent crime decreasing and property crime decreasing. Based on this trend, the crime rate in St. George for 2019 is expected to be lower than in 2016. The city violent crime rate for St. George in 2016 was lower than the national violent crime rate average by 50.71% and the city property crime rate in St. George was lower than the national property crime rate average by 26.88%.” {Utah.gov, cityrating.com}

    Yourself and family face greater odds being injured by the guns at your home rather by the hypothetical intruder. How many intruders have you come across in St. George? That many you need an assault rifle? This sounds of the “liberal decay” one would find in many “leftist” run cities your “ilk” mention regularly on this forum. You’re welcome.

  • Liberal On Planet Zion SLC, UT
    March 21, 2019 2:41 p.m.

    WeThePeople - Sandy, UT
    “Well, every country that has banned weapons has also imposed socialized medicine on its people.”

    Another day. Continued empty rhetoric. Absolutely absurd! How many times have you visited New Zealand? Zero! How many times have you stepped foot outside the state of Utah? My assumption is just as many times you have visited N.Z.

    Comrade RiDal - Sandy, UT
    “You realize that in early America, citizens could own unlimited size of cannons.”

    How absurd! I’m certain cannons were privately owned. Honestly, it seems like a modern assult rifle or a modern colt 45 would be a more dangerous weapon than a canon. The point being the model of owning anything in 1789 is not the same as in 2019! Currently these weapons fall under the category of "destructive device" per the National Firearms Act. A permit is required to own such a device and not all states allow them to be owned at all. The NFA added a $200 tax to restricted weapons. In todays terms, if adjusted for inflation, the tax would be a little over $3,500 per weapon. Attempt purchasing cannonballs today. Be prepared for another dose of reality. You’re welcome.

  • saw1 Fallon, NV
    March 21, 2019 2:02 p.m.

    I imagine that many owners of "MSR", modern sporting rifles in New Zealand are wondering, how is it that my rifle that was legal and used in a safe and lawful way is now illegal to own. If I don't volunteer to give it up, my government will send the police to take it from me . What a sad situation that a foreigner (Aus) comes to my country (NZ) and commits a terrible crime and then I will be punished for his act of murdering innocent people. This is a sad indeed.

  • Ted Saint George, UT
    March 21, 2019 1:17 p.m.

    New Zealand doesn't need guns, they have the Haka.
    When defending your home from an intruder, just break out the fiercest Haka moves ever and the criminal will take off running.

  • saw1 Fallon, NV
    March 21, 2019 12:14 p.m.

    Since "Assault" is an action that an individual does to someone or something and not an specific object, as in I was assaulted with a rock or a fist or automobile or maybe my Grandmothers .410 shotgun. It seems to me that the oft used term " Assault Weapon "could be anything that causes harm to an individual not just scary looking guns. Let's address the issue of why people commit these bad acts and what can we do besides making laws that criminals don't obey anyway.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    March 21, 2019 12:11 p.m.

    Video games filled with virtual weapons of war: They encourage violence and corrode morals!

    Actual weapons of war readily available to the populace: Freedom!!!

    Kudos to the people of New Zealand for being willing to put the lives of all of their citizens ahead of some citizens' personal hobbies and irrational fear.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    March 21, 2019 12:02 p.m.

    @Utah-Hawaii Alum - CA, 00
    "Give ALL the NRA gun nuts a black powder musket like our founding fathers afforded our citizenry "

    You realize that in early America, citizens could own unlimited size of cannons, "gattling guns" (once the were invented), and operated entire private battleships...right ? :D

    (google "Letters of Marque" )

  • StandAlone South Jordan, UT
    March 21, 2019 11:59 a.m.

    @Frozen Fractals

    History is showing banning guns is not the answer. The UK has some of the toughest gun control laws in the world, but they surpass New York's murder rate. In fact the overall crime rate in the UK surpasses the U.S by a large margin. Now the UK wants to ban eating utensils and enforce knife detectors in secondary schools in order to crack down on knife crime. They even want to ban cars in some areas. At what point does it get ridiculous? If a bad person commits a crime they will do so despite the law.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    March 21, 2019 11:53 a.m.

    This illustrates why "free nations" are constantly, almost inevitably, degrading into "socialism".
    They are willing to relinquish their rights based on a single incident by an individual whom all would acknowledge as a "deranged criminal".

    The net effect is that the rights of normal, law-abiding citizens, are constantly eroded in a doomed attempt to control the most insane and evil examples imaginable.

    Already, free speech is under attack all over the world in an attempt to curb "hate speech". Soon it will be "insensitive thoughts". Then, a mere smirk, or wearing the wrong kind of hat may be enough to create a nationwide campaign of persecution against you.

    But it can't happen here...right ?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2019 11:43 a.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum
    RE: "The US is a killing field these days"...
    ---
    This attack was in New Zealand, not the USA.
    You are aware of that, right?

    Mass Shootings are actually down in the USA from past years.

    Goggle "Presidents and Mass Shootings | National Affairs"...
    Trump - 4
    Obama - 24
    Bush - 8
    Clinton - 8

    That we have any is terrible. But America is not a killing field as you pretend.

    ===

    RE: "A M-16 or AK assault rifle types, pistols as well, that are capable to fit large clips should not be owned in private society"...
    ---
    I agree. I don't see any legitimate use for M16s, and lots of ways they could be abused.

    But some people want to take it further than just M16s and I think you know that.

    M16s are already not legal in the USA. They haven't been legal in the USA since May 19th of 1986. Google it if you really didn't know that.

    ===

    RE: "All rifle types, pistols as well, that are capable to fit large clips should not be owned in private society"...
    ---
    All rifles or pistols that use clips are capable to fit large clips. Not sure if you knew that or not.

    The weapon doesn't know what size the clip is.

    If a weapon uses a clip, you can put in a large clip

  • ⚖️ Moderator Nauvoo, IL
    March 21, 2019 11:36 a.m.

    @Cultural Revolution - Shanghai, China, 00 said "Ask Venezuela how turning in guns works out in the long run."

    You didn't mention the Cultural Revolution but it was another good example of where the rank and file citizens were greatly harmed by not having the protection provided by a gun.

  • Susan Quinton Draper, UT
    March 21, 2019 11:33 a.m.

    Aren’t Americans always saying that what works for other countries doesn’t work for the US? Now suddenly what works for NZ would work here...hmm. I absolutely think we are wrong to ignore security and protection for our schools and places of worship, and gun-free zones have been proven over and over to not be effective.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    March 21, 2019 11:15 a.m.

    Give ALL the NRA gun nuts a black powder musket like our founding fathers afforded our citizenry when they wrote the 2nd amendment. Do you thunk our founding fathers would accept an AR-15 in society today? Not a chance! Don't EVER underestimate how many dumb/desperate people there are in the USA as of today. It is sooooo sad!

  • saw1 Fallon, NV
    March 21, 2019 11:16 a.m.

    There was a murder in my church last summer , a really sad thing to have happened but I'm glad that I wasn't made to give up my legally owned pistol because of the act of a deranged killer. It is the person and not the tool used to do evil. Could have been a knife, hammer, or a vehicle. As much as we would like to we cannot make laws that will totally prevent evil acts. Teach our families to love and have respect for others and try hard to do it ourselves. PS. The UK has attempted to ban pointed knives since guns are mostly illegal already. What is next?

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2019 11:07 a.m.

    @Flipphone
    "So your giving up your protection, for the promise of protection. History has proven that, that is dangerous."

    Considering all the first-world countries that have stricter gun regulations than we do but much less gun violence... history shows they have the right idea.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum CA, 00
    March 21, 2019 10:55 a.m.

    A M-16 or AK assault rifle types, pistols as well, that are capable to fit large clips should not be owned in private society. The US is a killing field these days. Look at the stats folks. I served in an elite special forces unit and I don't own a gun. I don't need one. However, I can fight. If y'all wanna feel safe, get a big dog, learn to fight or run if you're outmatched or scared. I have a big dog, a baseball bat and my service hatchet under my bed. Nobody stands one chance against us if they kick in my front or back doors.........guns create false comfort and abilities.

  • Flipphone , 00
    March 21, 2019 10:39 a.m.

    So your giving up your protection, for the promise of protection. History has proven that, that is dangerous.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    March 21, 2019 10:35 a.m.

    Show me in the Constitution where it is my 'right' to own an Assault Weapon. Where do we stop? We can't by law own machine guns altho that is being pushed.

    I've never owned a gun, nor have any of my extended family and most of our friends. We are as free as anyone on this planet.

    The people of most Western democracies own no assault weapons. Not one. And they are as free as any. We own 5+million in the USA and have the highest murder rate in the free world. 15 times higher than New Zealand, 7-8x higher than Europe/UK. Same for suicide.

    We're not free to enjoy a movie, a Country Music concert or send our kids to Elementary School without worrying some nut job with an AR-15 will mow us down.

    Now, who isn't free?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2019 10:27 a.m.

    A NEW law only works if it's designed better than the old law. They don't work better just because they are new. Laws are not like cars.

    We need to make sure our new laws are BETTER than our old laws, not just newer.

    If we insist on universal background checks... that's great. But acknowledge that all the mass shooters in the news recently passed their background check, and weren't flagged as a problem.

    I know background checks are good, and they have prevented a ton of problems. But almost all the recent shooters passed their background check. So obviously it wouldn't have prevented these incidents. Because it didn't.

    We need to find a background check that would have flagged the shooters that actually carried out recent mass shootings.

    Outlawing certain models or types of guns doesn't fix the real problem. It's just a knee-jerk feel good reaction to what some people Assume is the real problem (that type of gun).

    I see it this way...

    If we got rid of the hate... all guns could be legal and we wouldn't have these attacks.

    If we just get rid of one type of gun and keep the hate... these attacks are likely to continue. Just with different models or other weapons.

  • Culture Warrior Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2019 10:27 a.m.

    Good!

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2019 10:22 a.m.

    A great move that needs to be followed here.

  • saw1 Fallon, NV
    March 21, 2019 10:15 a.m.

    It is really sad that innocent people were killed while attending a worship service. It is also sad that a well meaning but misguided government leader decided to take away private property that was legally owned and not used for evil purposes by the law abiding civilians that live in NZ. I wonder how many will volunteer to turn in their guns that have caused no harm to anyone. People should be held accountable for their evil actions and not lump the law abiding with the criminals. Thankfully we have a bill of Rights, NZ government says that gun ownership is a privilege and not a right of the people. Since they have a gun registration requirement I guess if you don't comply, they will show up at your door to confiscate the evil weapon.

  • GreyWolf ,
    March 21, 2019 10:06 a.m.

    To my_two_cents_worth and SAS,

    Wouldn't we be better off if more people were thinking about, and perhaps even praying for, others? After all, it would mean that at least we were thinking about more than just ourselves.

    It might also mean that we weren't just sitting around waiting for some new law to be written to solve our problems while lamenting the ignorance of all those who don't agree with us.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    March 21, 2019 10:05 a.m.

    @DN Subscriber 2 - SLC, UT

    New York City, Washington DC and Chicago do not ban gun ownership. That would violate the 2nd amendment. And the effectiveness of Chicago gun laws are offset by two neighboring states, Wisconsin and Indiana, with very lenient gun laws.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2019 10:06 a.m.

    @Hutterite 10:17 p.m.
    RE: "We haven't the courage to do what they did"...
    ---
    It's not what we DON'T have (Courage)... it's what we DO have (Constitution).

    Some things they can do there we can't do here. Because they are unconstitutional here, and our Supreme Court would overturn them even if Congress passed them. That's their Job (the Supreme Court). To overturn laws that are passed that are Unconstitutional.

    Adding a regulation like this would probably pass muster in the Supreme Court. But a total ban (which some liberals do want)... would absolutely not.

    ===

    RE: "This isn't about their liberty; it's about ours"...
    ---
    What they do there... does not affect our liberty here.

    ===

    IMO We also need the courage to address the real problem. The hate for other groups in our society. Seeing people primarily as their "group", their "race", their "religion", or whatever box you put them in so you can vilify them. The division and hate. That's the problem IMO. Bigger problem than what specific weapons are legal and which models aren't.

    This gun debate is a red-herring in context of the real problem that actually results in these attacks. The hate. The division.

  • GreyWolf ,
    March 21, 2019 9:56 a.m.

    Those seeking new laws as the primary solution, or perhaps the only solution, might have an easier time if they at least pretended to understand the objections raised. Since they don't, they will continue to face opposition they find to be as stubborn and unreasonable as some find their insistence on the effectiveness of new laws over anything else we could do.

  • SAS Sandy, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:53 a.m.

    @my_two_cents_worth:

    "I suspect they learned a very long time ago that "thoughts and prayer' is not an effective solution to mass shootings."

    Or perhaps they live in a society where mass shootings haven't become commonplace. They don't sink into the rut of "thoughts and prayers," they take action. Governments and societies can do that.

  • MGoodwin Murray/USA, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:46 a.m.

    Semi automatic military style, so many vague buzzwords in that but explaining that is like talking to a wall, I'm pretty sure every semi automatic pistol, which would probably make up 80% of everything in the market. No freedom isn't dead in New Zealand, but there's always going to be another incident to go further, today it's semi automatic, tomorrow it will be mandatory psych evaluation for owners, after that maybe we'll go with random searches of known firearms, and don't mock it I've seen legislators from other states legitimately propose it. Always one more step, always one more sacrifice, for the greater good of course, and yet we are no safer, because like the socialists we just aren't doing enough of it.

    I will hold this line, I will not give up my weapons or my rights so you can enjoy some imaginary safety. I'm not going to jump through more hoops that do nothing, I'm through placating emotional nonsense. New Zealand can do whatever New Zealand wants, but I can recognize an emotional cudgel when I see one and I will not relent in opposition.

    You want them, come and take them.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:45 a.m.

    I think banning that type of gun is a good move, but I hope they don't think this fixes the problem. The problem wasn't the type of gun used. The real problem was the hate in the guy.

    Whether he used a scary looking gun or a hunting gun or a gun intended for sports... it does the same damage. He could shoot those guns fast too.

    I don't think the crux of the problem is this type of gun being legal in NZ. It's that this type of hate exists in NZ (regardless of what type of gun a crazy man full of hate decides to use when he goes to the Mosque).

    He didn't go to the mosque and shoot people because this type of gun was legal.

    He didn't wake up one day and decide if this type of gun is legal he's going to buy one and take it to the Mosque.

    The problem is the hate. The problem is the division in society today. And the assumption that if you feel strongly enough about your agenda (white nationalist, black nationalist, Jihad, whatever)... you can turn to violence (regardless of the type/model of weapon you use).

    When your agenda drives you to think violence in support of your cause is OK... that's the problem in society. Not that a certain type of gun is legal or not.

  • Summer Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:41 a.m.

    @one old man
    "Intelligence and good sense are alive and well in New Zealand.

    Hope it's was contagious."
    ______________

    I agree. Why stop there? I mean, we should just ban killing people and make murder illegal.

  • WeThePeople Sandy, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:41 a.m.

    @tothemoon:

    "So New Zealand will be a third-world dictatorship by next year because they've put restrictions on weapons?"

    Well, every country that has banned weapons has also imposed socialized medicine on its people. They cannot stand up for their liberty, as the state takes away their lives.

    If not for our Leader, America would not be far behind.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:21 a.m.

    "A law abiding citizen with a gun stopped the rampage. "

    The gun was one the shooter had dropped because it was empty.

    He then went on to another mosque and more shootings.

    So that comment is only partially true.

    But it misses the obvious fact that because of lax background checks, the shooter was able to have the guns in the first place.

    AND New Zealand is NOT proposing to BAN guns completely.

    Proper regulation is a far cry from a ban.

    It's something called Common Sense.

    The lack of common sense is usually called Stupidity.

  • tothemoon Centerville, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:20 a.m.

    "I am so sad for New Zealand. Not only do they live in the aftermath of a terrible tragedy, but this law means that their liberty is hanging by a thread".

    I vote conservative probably 70% of the time, but our nation's absolute obsession with guns is borderline brainwashing. So New Zealand will be a third-world dictatorship by next year because they've put restrictions on weapons?

  • Malihini Northern, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:11 a.m.

    "such weapons of war have no place in our business — or our country,"

    - Nor do they have any place in America but the crazed NRA continues to lobby against this so that they can continue to rake in the money.

    "The prime minister is amazing, It's not like in America, where they have all these things and then they go 'Oh yeah, we'll deal with the gun laws,' and nothing's done."

    - Good for NZ. Maybe we could follow their example and have the courage to actually do something toward preventing these terrible attacks. Instead we hide behind the ridiculous argument of 'Guns don't kill people, people do' and 'You can't round up all these guns so why try'. At least NZ is looking forward and trying to hinder the problem so that future generations will hopefully not have to deal with this.

    For those who say 'Guns don't kill people' let me just ask, what is a semi-automatic, military weapon intended to do? It's not for the weekend duck hunt or deer or elk hunt. It has one purpose and that purpose of killing other people has got to stop.

  • Red Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:08 a.m.

    They should outlaw bombs too. That could kill way more people. Also, a good knife fighter could seriously do a ton of damage. They should for sure outlaw knives before something bad happens.

  • JLindow St. George, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:06 a.m.

    If you could buy a box of hand grenades in the Walmart sporting department and someone used those grenades to carry out a mass murder, I expect we'd be hearing the exact same arguments gun enthusiasts always make: If you ban grenades, bad people will still get their hands on them. You're leaving people helpless to defend themselves. Grenades don't kill people, people kill people.

    I look forward to the day when the inmates are no longer running the asylum when it comes to guns in the US.

  • tothemoon Centerville, UT
    March 21, 2019 9:06 a.m.

    I certainly hope all those saying that restricting guns won't work don't favor restrictions on abortion. Cuz...you know...banning stuff doesn't work.

  • Traveller Farmington, UT
    March 21, 2019 8:43 a.m.

    I'm no expert on New Zealand law, but I would guess that murdering people while they pray was already illegal. Is outlawing a particular style of weapon going to convince people who were already perfectly willing to break the "don't murder people" law to go take up knitting instead?

    If the attack had been carried out with a truck, as many attacks by terrorists in other countries have been, would the New Zealand Prime Minister be acting to outlaw specific brands of truck today?

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    March 21, 2019 8:35 a.m.

    Here are Utah conservatives in a nutshell:
    Abortion?
    Conservatives: BAN IT!
    Alcohol?
    Conservatives: BAN IT!
    Gay marriage?
    Conservatives: BAN IT!
    Guns?
    Conservatives: Come on, banning things never works. People will still find ways to get it.

    Good for New Zealand.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    March 21, 2019 8:27 a.m.

    Criminals and crazy people do not obey laws against murder, gun bans in schools or churches or most other laws.

    New York City, Washington, DC, and Chicago have had virtually total bans on all types of guns in their cities for decades, but criminals in those places kill and wound thousands of people every year. Far more per capita than in the surrounding areas with so-called "weak gun laws."

    It's not the guns, it's the criminals and crazy people that need to be controlled.

  • Leonidas Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2019 8:23 a.m.

    I'm sure all those criminals in NZ are lining up to turn in their ARs. As you know all criminals are fervent supporters of the law?

  • drich Green River, Utah
    March 21, 2019 8:24 a.m.

    A law abiding citizen with a gun stopped the rampage. Here again it was the guns fault and not the criminal.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    March 21, 2019 8:14 a.m.

    "The world will wake up tomorrow to see one less free country."

    You don't have to step back very far to see how nuts this statement is. A country is not free anymore because it's citizens can't run around with assault weapons?

    Absolutely bizarre.

  • CDM1525 West Point, UT
    March 21, 2019 8:07 a.m.

    We have plenty of laws on Alcohol but we cannot seem to wrap our brains around more laws on guns?

  • quackquack Park City, UT
    March 21, 2019 8:07 a.m.

    Benjamin Franklin: 'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    You do know that quote has nothing to do with guns but was a letter B.F penned during tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns.

    Paul Harvey was born in 1918 is ideology and mentality was due to World war 2
    had you lived through a WORLD war you too would want to arm yourself to the teeth.

    Amazing how fanatics never actually research the issue at hand but just get second hand info and try to sound legitimate,

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    March 21, 2019 8:00 a.m.

    Cultural Revolution - Shanghai, China, 00 said: "Ask Venezuela how turning in guns works out in the long run."

    But they aren't confiscating All guns, just the ones preferred by mass murders and boys masquerading as adults.

    China huh? Hope your government is paying you handsomely at the troll farm.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    March 21, 2019 7:54 a.m.

    It's so refreshing to see a leader with conscience and guts doing something common sense would dictate.

    And so pathetic and disappointing to see the Fox/NRA parrots trying (and failing) to see why this is wrong.

    I wonder how many of you would love assault weapons so much if someone you loved, maybe a child, had been senselessly murdered by someone who had easy access to these kinds of weapons. We have over 5 million of these guns in our country. And we can't even agree on simple registration laws thanks to the NRA. This is waaaay past some 25 year old homily by Paul Harvey.

    I wonder how much you would love the NRA, if they robocalled your home 5 times a day over 3 weeks, to raise money, just after a local Elementary School massacre. It made me sick and angry when the NRA did that to us in Dec. 2012.

  • EPJ Skull Valley, UT
    March 21, 2019 6:52 a.m.

    Benjamin Franklin: 'Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    Also, do a search on the internet with the phrase, Paul Harvey on Guns November 6, 2000. Read what this very prominent and respected radio commentator had to say about some very relevant topics affecting our society.

  • Common sense conservative Herriman, UT
    March 21, 2019 6:35 a.m.

    New Zealand also has laws against murder. Doesn't it stand to reason that someone evil enough to break those laws might also break this new law banning certain rifles?

  • The Real Maverick Spanish Fork, UT
    March 21, 2019 6:34 a.m.

    Even the conservatives in New Zealand supported these common sense measures. Is there any way we could trade them their conservatives for ours? I miss having legislators like... actually pass sane legislation... what a concept!

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    March 21, 2019 3:00 a.m.

    What is taking guns out of the hands of good people supposed to accomplish?

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    March 20, 2019 11:32 p.m.

    @WeThePeople

    "I am so sad for New Zealand."

    Something tells me the people of New Zealand have little use for pity choosing, instead, to tackle the problem. I suspect they learned a very long time ago that "thoughts and prayer' is not an effective solution to mass shootings.

  • Cultural Revolution Shanghai, China, 00
    March 20, 2019 11:22 p.m.

    The West should not be retreating when faced with gunman that are Chinese acolytes. By reacting badly, we risk the west destroying itself through Communism. Look at how freedom of speech is abused by governments throughout Europe.

  • Onion Daze Payson, UT
    March 20, 2019 10:33 p.m.

    "...this law means that their liberty is hanging by a thread."

    Their "liberty" will survive fine with lever and pump action rifles and shotguns.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    March 20, 2019 10:19 p.m.

    "I am so sad for New Zealand. Not only do they live in the aftermath of a terrible tragedy, but this law means that their liberty is hanging by a thread. The world will wake up tomorrow to see one less free country."

    I would be a lot different if they had someone like trump in office. But they don't have someone like that to fear.

    Instead they will be MORE free. Free from fear of lunatics with military grade firearms.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 20, 2019 10:17 p.m.

    This isn't about their liberty; it's about ours. We haven't the courage to do what they did.

  • Cultural Revolution Shanghai, China, 00
    March 20, 2019 10:05 p.m.

    Ask Venezuela how turning in guns works out in the long run.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    March 20, 2019 9:56 p.m.

    Intelligence and good sense are alive and well in New Zealand.

    Hope it's was contagious.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 20, 2019 9:52 p.m.

    This seems a good idea.

  • WeThePeople Sandy, UT
    March 20, 2019 9:50 p.m.

    I am so sad for New Zealand. Not only do they live in the aftermath of a terrible tragedy, but this law means that their liberty is hanging by a thread. The world will wake up tomorrow to see one less free country.