Brad Rock: Gonzaga living the postseason life BYU imagined when joining the WCC

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  • golfrUte SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 22, 2019 9:47 a.m.

    @ Fear The Turtle

    I have first hand experience as well. Both from a relative who was a tutor to student athletes and a student athlete currently on the football team.

    Dude..............

  • Fear the Turtle!! ,
    March 22, 2019 7:50 a.m.

    @golfrUte - SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 21, 2019 3:52 p.m.
    "@ Fear The Turtle

    Not true. There are plenty of student athletes currently on BYU rosters who barely meet the NCAA minimum."

    Dude, you have no idea. I have first hand experience and you are talking about something somebody told you. Step away.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    March 21, 2019 6:01 p.m.

    The WCC is a great basketball conference despite the small gyms. The top half of the conference has good programs.

    BYU is in a downward spiral because of poor coaching. Rose should have been let go years ago. Nice guy. Horrible recruiter and coach. No innovation, no fire, no defense.

    I haven't watched a basketball game since Jimmer left. Boring...

  • golfrUte SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 21, 2019 3:52 p.m.

    @ Fear The Turtle

    Not true. There are plenty of student athletes currently on BYU rosters who barely meet the NCAA minimum.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    March 21, 2019 8:42 a.m.

    TJ - Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 20, 2019 7:22 p.m.

    It could be a lot worse. Remember the utes streak of being really bad for 10+ years. They would have loved a 19 win season.
    --------
    Nope, but I do remember a couple of recent sweet 16 visits and knocking off Duke at MSG.

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 20, 2019 7:22 p.m.

    It could be a lot worse. Remember the utes streak of being really bad for 10+ years. They would have loved a 19 win season.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    March 20, 2019 5:06 p.m.

    Terry:

    "AAC...[i]s proven better than the Pac12 in both football and basketball in recent years and might help jump start recruiting and fan support again."

    That sounded made up little bro. Please remind us all when was the last time -- if ever -- AAC football finished ranked ahead of the Pac-12. You're gonna need to back that one up.

    But seriously folks!:

    "The pac has lost all of its luster...and is no longer considered a p5 program."

    What a frantic and emotional thing to say. You're gonna need to back THAT one up TOO! Because last I'd checked, all media outlets considers the Pac-12 to be P5 league. ALL of them!

    Fail.

  • Ute buster Salt Lake City, UT
    March 20, 2019 4:39 p.m.

    Please dont make us remind ute and Aggie fans about the final scores this year. After all that is all that matters with you guys. 15 point wins is considered a blowout.

  • But seriously folks! Salt Lake City, UT
    March 20, 2019 4:37 p.m.

    BYU is much better off in the upward trending WCC than in the irrelevant pac. The pac has lost all of its luster in the last 8 years and is no longer considered a p5 program. The pac commisioner has gone wild with spending for him and this executive staff leaving the schools to fend for themselves. And let's not forget about the pac network which is on its last leg. The pac us a dumpster fire.

  • blue n gold Redmond, WA
    March 20, 2019 2:28 p.m.

    red.diehard

    "There is a hubris among Y fans..."

    For hubris amongst fans, see mirror...

    especially since Utah was invited to become a little fish in the big P12 pond.

  • land of oz Redmond, WA
    March 20, 2019 2:21 p.m.

    re: “It might be time to jump to the AAC also, its proven better than the Pac12 in both football and basketball in recent years and might help jump start recruiting and fan support again.”

    AZUTE1: "Then why is it every reputable conference ranking out there doesn’t support your claim regarding AAC/PAC-12?"

    Why do you only consider rankings to be valid when they favor your current narrative?

    Case in point (AP/Coaches Final Rankings):
    #22/#21 Utah State
    unranked Utah

    Yet, you claim that Utah was better than Utah State.

    Case in point (NET/KenPom Final Rankings):
    #29/#33 Utah State
    #85/#86 BYU
    #90/#99 UVU
    #105/#114 Utah

    Yet, you claim that Utah isn't the 4th best team in the state.

  • Fear the Turtle!! ,
    March 20, 2019 1:48 p.m.

    @golfrUte - SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 20, 2019 10:55 a.m.

    "Please stop with the "academic constraints" at BYU nonsense. BYU has high academic standards for students, NOT for student athletes. If a high school player has graduated from an accredited high school and is eligible by NCAA standards, BYU does and will offer a scholarship.

    The football team and basketball team have several student athletes who don't come close to the entrance requirements of typical students."

    ------------

    You almost got that right. NCAA sets the minimum standards and that is all BYU HAS to comply with. HOWEVER, if they know that classes will be harder, they can raise that minimum standard up. That IS what they have done just like Stanford and Maryland to name two that I know of personally.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    March 20, 2019 1:34 p.m.

    It's not really fair to compare BYU, or any school for that matter, to Gonzaga. Gonzaga is an anomaly. The program was built from the ground up with solid coaching and the mantra "anyone, anywhere, anytime". Now that this program is getting top recruits; it's a total national power.

    Go Zags......and Go Utes

  • Jello is Good ,
    March 20, 2019 1:21 p.m.

    @red.diehard - Central, UT
    March 20, 2019 11:17 a.m.

    "The real issue is invalid expectations of the fans, nothing more. y football and basketball are performing at or even above their historical averages (before you flame me look at the ENTIRE history).

    Please do not pretend to tell me what my expectations are for my team, they have nothing to do with this comment nor article. There is a hubris among y fans that somehow they will be blessed on (court/field) and off. Hmmm...on second thought, maybe personal choices are the reason for mediocrity."

    --------------

    As a Y fan, I agree with your first paragraph. BYU is historically a 8 win team going to a lower tier bowl in football and a 20 win team going to the NIT in basketball. I do think many BYU fans have an unrealistic view of who BYU is and a flawed memory of who they were.

    As to your 2nd paragraph, that's all garbage from a Y hating troll.

  • red.diehard Central, UT
    March 20, 2019 11:17 a.m.

    The real issue is invalid expectations of the fans, nothing more. y football and basketball are performing at or even above their historical averages (before you flame me look at the ENTIRE history).

    Please do not pretend to tell me what my expectations are for my team, they have nothing to do with this comment nor article. There is a hubris among y fans that somehow they will be blessed on (court/field) and off. Hmmm...on second thought, maybe personal choices are the reason for mediocrity.

  • golfrUte SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 20, 2019 10:55 a.m.

    Please stop with the "academic constraints" at BYU nonsense. BYU has high academic standards for students, NOT for student athletes. If a high school player has graduated from an accredited high school and is eligible by NCAA standards, BYU does and will offer a scholarship.

    The football team and basketball team have several student athletes who don't come close to the entrance requirements of typical students.

  • estreetshuffle Window Rock, AZ
    March 20, 2019 10:24 a.m.

    It's money, everybody is greedy for money.

  • shancock Lehi, UT
    March 20, 2019 9:49 a.m.

    I think defense is a problem for BYU teams. For whatever reason BYU teams don’t seem to play good defense consistently. Defense can help overcome a lot of ills, and you don’t end up with these lopsided losses wondering where did that come from?

  • mdp Bountiful, UT
    March 20, 2019 9:44 a.m.

    Gonzaga continues to win simply because they have a better coach who recruits... while BYU has a much better stadium and facilities? I personly dislike Roseball- no defense and forcing up brick after brick, which sometimes works, but generally does not against good defensive teams.

  • Wise-sage Pleasant Grove, UT
    March 20, 2019 9:38 a.m.

    Rose is a nice guy, so it would really be cool if he retired. Rose s not a good coach unless you like watching all-star church hoops. In every game we will get out coached, players are not getting developed. Ask yourself why ae so many leaving the program?? Rose has his pets and it's been that way for years. When some players can make many mistakes and still be on the court. While others make just one mistake or take a bad shot and find themselves on the bench. Why are BYU players leaving early to live the dream to play in Europe?? Why is it that 4 out of 5 of the transferred players have success even in harder leagues (take out Gonzaga and our league rates lower than the WAC)?? Rose is a nice guy and can recruit well, but, with the BYU basketball team watching all the tourneys on TV this year, will people come to the Y?? Please Dave talk to Holmoe (whos vying for a GA job) get a small payout and take one for the team and retire.

  • NevadaCoug Overton, NV
    March 20, 2019 9:35 a.m.

    "And Utah State is reminding the cougars what they had in the MWC."

    Yeah, BYU would be much better off in the 16th ranked conference rather than be in the 8th ranked conference, according to RPI.

    Oh, wait, RPI is outdated. Right. So that means BYU would be better off in the 12th ranked conference, rather than being in the...8th ranked conference.

    Yes, they are really missing out.

    Fact is, the Mountain West has been consistently a worse conference than the WCC since BYU switched.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    March 20, 2019 9:30 a.m.

    WACPaddingOurSchedule - pocatello, ID
    March 19, 2019 11:09 p.m.
    BYU Sports Nut - Heber City, UT
    March 19, 2019 8:40 p.m.

    BYU would have had a championship team this year, yes, even better than Gonzaga had those who left for the pros not gone to the pros.
    _____

    LOL!

    --------------

    Pros? Is she talking about Europe?

    We also lost MUCH better players Kuzma and Poeltl early to the NBA.

    Good teams reload, just like the young talent Utah has next year.

  • jmac77 West Valley City, UT
    March 20, 2019 9:14 a.m.

    Not a Y fan, but I'll weigh in with some objective observations.

    Rose has an impressive winning percentage and total number of wins. Whether you want to say he got many of those by playing in a mediocre MWC after the Majerus-led Utah heyday of the '90s/early 2000s and without the very good New Mexico teams of that same era, or whether his success was largely because of players like Jimmer and others, that's fine. The fact is, I think Rose showed he was a great coach for many seasons.

    What happened? I'm not sure, but it's not unheard of for coaches to "lose their touch" or start to wash out. It happens to players, and it can happen to coaches too. I see it in all sports at all levels. It happened in MWC football in the mid 2000s with Fisher DeBerry and Sonny Lubick. Both had good success but floundered late in their careers. In college basketball, it happened with Denny Crum at Louisville in the early 2000s. Heck, look at Bob Knight. Even his success tapered off quite a bit in last handful of years.

    My guess is Rose just doesn't have it anymore. He could be mentally and physically fatigued. It may be time for him to take a break or call it a career.

  • Idaho forever South Jordan, UT
    March 20, 2019 9:01 a.m.

    “....shoulda, coulda, woulda.....”. broken record out of Provo.

  • Bluefan AMERICAN CANYON, CA
    March 20, 2019 8:52 a.m.

    I don't want to criticize the program Rose is running but I think he has made some recent missteps. Rose had opportunities to go to bigger programs back when he was having success. He stayed loyal to BYU and Homoe stayed loyal to Rose by giving him a contract extension and vote of confidence. Rose does best with talented assistant coaches like Dave Rice and Mark Pope. I think bringing in Quincy Lewis was, in part, a move to help lure Frank Jackson. Quincy was a successful high school coach but it may have been better to have had an assistant with D-1 experience. Cummard is going to be good in a few years but he's inexperienced. Rose may be trying to groom a successor but the inexperience is having its toll on the program. The other misstep is with player development and management. Yes, some players left to play professionally but the program was also hurt by transfers. Toolson, Neilson, Carlino, Harrison, Aytes, Dastrup, Barkley, and Chatman all left the program and were successful elsewhere except for Dastrup who has yet to play. Those players were somehow mismanaged and that is on Rose.

  • Klaus2012 Rexburg, ID
    March 20, 2019 8:07 a.m.

    "Everything that happens is a blessing. The Y is able to showcase itself as a national power in football with the flexibility that being independent provides, plus they get to be in the same basketball conference with a perennial powerhouse. Plus a lot of natural rivalries, like USF and Pepperdine and, well, all the rest. The best of both worlds!"

    I think BYU fits quite well in the WCC. They have yet to demonstrate being a national power as an independent in football, but I believe a majority of their non-football sports have found a niche in the WCC. The conference is competitive, and travel is relatively quick. When BYU starts dominating the conference, from basketball to baseball, to golf, and soccer, etc., then sure, look for a more "prestigious" conference. But right now be happy and build within what you have.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    March 20, 2019 1:46 a.m.

    “It might be time to jump to the AAC also, its proven better than the Pac12 in both football and basketball in recent years and might help jump start recruiting and fan support again.”

    Then why is it every reputable conference ranking out there doesn’t support your claim regarding AAC/PAC-12?

    Go Utes!

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    March 19, 2019 11:09 p.m.

    BYU Sports Nut - Heber City, UT
    March 19, 2019 8:40 p.m.

    BYU would have had a championship team this year, yes, even better than Gonzaga had those who left for the pros not gone to the pros.
    _____

    LOL!

  • Terry Sandy, UT
    March 19, 2019 10:58 p.m.

    Rose always loses his best players early, probably when they see they have no chance at being showcased in the NCAA tourney, figure out they are learning nothing and not being developed etc. Rose seldom preaches defense to his players, can't get his team motivated for big games and appears lazy in recruiting to his loyal Utah county players, Lone Peak University? That might work great for a Junior College, but BYU can't even compete against the tiny religious colleges in California anymore with this lazy recruiting strategy. That loss to San Diego was the most uninspired embarrassing loss I can remember. The better WCC schools always bring in top level international talent, BYU would have a huge advantage with their LDS worldwide connections, but don't even make a half hearted attempt and are thus falling behind many of the smaller WCC programs that have 1/10th the budget, TV draw and fan support BYU has. Time to go another coaching direction or fan apathy will continue to fade away rapidly. It might be time to jump to the AAC also, its proven better than the Pac12 in both football and basketball in recent years and might help jump start recruiting and fan support again.

  • BYUToday OLATHE, KS
    March 19, 2019 10:19 p.m.

    At this point one needs to ask what is in the Rose culture that has so many players leave early?

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 19, 2019 10:18 p.m.

    And Utah State is reminding the cougars what they had in the MWC.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    March 19, 2019 8:54 p.m.

    water rocket - , 00
    March 19, 2019 2:26 p.m.
    Who is to say that BYU isn't one of the reasons that has helped Gonzaga up their own game? Remember a year or two ago when BYU went to then #1 ranked Gonzaga and beat them in their own building? Does any one seriously think this hasn't caused Gonzaga to prepare even harder? Sure BYU would love to be in the same spot Gonzaga is, and who knows, maybe they will be some day, but right now it is entertaining to have them play each other in some very highly contested games (well, most of the time, any way!).
    _____

    Oh please. Stop this nonsense.
    Gonzaga plays a tough non conference schedule to prepare themselves every year. They don't need BYUs help.

  • BYU Sports Nut Heber City, UT
    March 19, 2019 8:40 p.m.

    BYU would have had a championship team this year, yes, even better than Gonzaga had those who left for the pros not gone to the pros. Dave Rose is a great coach but somehow we need to get players in here who are not enamored by European basketball. It doesn't pay that much! Keep the guys together, build a team and lets get on with it.

  • CoHawk Littleton, CO
    March 19, 2019 8:14 p.m.

    I think the fire started in the dumpster out behind the Marriott Center (very near the bb offices) because of missions impacting the program! Oh wait, missions aren't a new thing at BYU? USU has returned missionaries on their NCAA #8 seeded team? Ok, cancel that excuse. Yes, it is GU taking all the good bb players out of the church's reach! Wait, they didn't do that .... except with Wade (who will probably turn out to be BYU's best guard next year) ..... ok cancel that excuse.

    Good players don't want to play for coaches who don't win big games and can't teach them additional skills.

    This years' team is/was very dysfunctional all year long. Rose has beaten GU at Spokane (a couple of those losses were stripped away courtesy of Rose/Emery/NCAA so I don't know if we should really be counting wins for Rose when we had an ineligible player on the floor. But, seriously, does anyone ...... even the Rose supporters think that Rose has done a good job over the last 7 years?? He has a huge advantage with resources, recruiting, national and international reach (alumni) and exposure through TV, facilities ...... and the list goes on. He should be way ahead of the WCC except GU!

  • JapanCougar Layton, UT
    March 19, 2019 8:02 p.m.

    It's interesting that Ute fans would gloat about this...it's not like the PAC is thriving.
    Everyone who knows sports realizes that perennially successful programs are the result of successful coaches and management. Rose is a very good coach, but not a great one. Mark Few is up another level. Great coaches can take lesser talent and win consistently.

  • Utahnareapeculiarpeople Salt Lake City, UT
    March 19, 2019 7:51 p.m.

    Everything that happens is a blessing. The Y is able to showcase itself as a national power in football with the flexibility that being independent provides, plus they get to be in the same basketball conference with a perennial powerhouse. Plus a lot of natural rivalries, like USF and pepperdine and, well, all the rest. The best of both worlds!

  • CowboySky Green River, WY
    March 19, 2019 6:30 p.m.

    BYU "ain't no Gonzaga". Period. End of sentence!

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    March 19, 2019 5:51 p.m.

    There is absolutely no joy in BYU basketball. Not in the coaches, players or the fans.

    Do you want a positive energy coaching your team? Dave Rose isn't that.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    March 19, 2019 4:56 p.m.

    The author of the article asks: "So what happened? Was it the honor code? Mission interruptions? Players transferring out? Academic constraints? Recruiting?".

    Ummm - he forgot to add Coaching?

    At this point all of these factors need to be evaluated!

  • JustGordon Salt Lake City, UT
    March 19, 2019 4:30 p.m.

    Yes, National pundits all agree that without the home loss to our little blue brother the Zags would be just another WCC team with no national cache - not! Give credit where it is due to the Zags...they play well and recruit well an upset loss to a much lesser program likely is not even a blip on their radar because like all good teams/programs they are always looking forward not backward. A lesson that should be taken to heart in Provo especially for football.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    March 19, 2019 3:26 p.m.

    What - you mean the move to the WCC to accommodate football independence hasn't worked as envisioned? Perish the thought.

  • justbereal , 00
    March 19, 2019 3:04 p.m.

    He didn't list Holmoe or Rose as reasons for lack of results

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    March 19, 2019 2:44 p.m.

    byu and its fans have imagined many, many things and still do on a regular basis. An example, they imagined going independent in football was a good idea - LOL.

  • water rocket , 00
    March 19, 2019 2:28 p.m.

    Who is to say that BYU isn't one of the reasons that has helped Gonzaga up their own game? Remember a year or two ago when BYU went to then #1 ranked Gonzaga and beat them in their own building? Does any one seriously think this hasn't caused Gonzaga to prepare even harder? Sure BYU would love to be in the same spot Gonzaga is, and who knows, maybe they will be some day, but right now it is entertaining to have them play each other in some very highly contested games (well, most of the time, any way!).

  • water rocket , 00
    March 19, 2019 2:26 p.m.

    Who is to say that BYU isn't one of the reasons that has helped Gonzaga up their own game? Remember a year or two ago when BYU went to then #1 ranked Gonzaga and beat them in their own building? Does any one seriously think this hasn't caused Gonzaga to prepare even harder? Sure BYU would love to be in the same spot Gonzaga is, and who knows, maybe they will be some day, but right now it is entertaining to have them play each other in some very highly contested games (well, most of the time, any way!).