Opinionated - Sandy, UTOpinionated, BUT WRONG"It appears
to me there are also those trying to entice the vulnerable youth, who still
trying to figure out all these new emotions they are feeling, into the gay
lifestyle. Of course kids feel more comfortable around their same gender...but
that doesn't mean they should adopt the gay lifestyle."If
you follow local news, it is primarily white Mormon men in Utah county that get
caught trying to diddle with underage boys. A Mormon judge even apologized to a
Mormon Bishop for having to sentence him, according to reports in the Deseret
News. The greatest percentage of child molesters in the state is found in Utah
County.At the same time, it is the people in Utah country that want
to pursue "Conversion Therapy" to satisfy their homophobic religious
beliefs. It was their god that created the person, so they are trying to tell
god they will correct his mistake.
If we are going to demand citations for what someone freely admits are personal
observations, can we also get some citations or at least some examples of kids
being forced into damaging conversion therapy today?The same left
winger who get very exercised about "message bills" promoting
conservative social values seem very eager to send a message of their own with
this bill without offering up any evidence or even contemporary examples of kids
being subjected to damaging conversion therapy.Or maybe, this is
about more than just a message. Maybe it is about legally infringing the rights
of free speech, religion, and parenting by imposing statutory penalties for even
talking about homosexual conduct being immoral, unhealthy, or otherwise worth
avoiding regardless of physical desires.As amended, the bill would
have banned electroshock and aversion therapies while prohibiting false
advertising about the success rate of conversion therapy. That protects from all
overt harm. Why wasn't that a good bill? Why do the zealots demand a law
that defines "conversion therapy" so broadly as to very likely include
any discussion at all about the negatives of homosexual behavior?
@The Atheist: "It is appropriately based on ethical arguments that no person
should be treated as fundamentally and essentially "broken" and in need
of being "fixed", especially as a youth!"So the kid with
a temper doesn't need to learn to bridle his tongue and fists?The drunk doesn't need to recover?The lazy person
doesn't need to learn a work ethic?The covetous would not be
better if they were to stop comparing themselves to others and instead take joy
in their own lives?The criminal doesn't need to be
rehabilitated?The adulterer or even unmarried "playa" might
not consider abiding faithfullness and chastity?The obese would not
be well served by losing weight and living a more healthy lifestyle?Lots of people have areas where they need to improve their lives.Whether same sex attraction or gender dysphopia are traits that can or should
be "fixed" is a fine area for debate. For decades I heard that such
traits had to be inborn because "who would ever choose to be gay?" Well,
if nobody would choose to be homosexual, maybe some folks would like to try to
choose not to be homosexual.I don't know if that is possible.
But logic ought to trump rhetoric and politics.
Opposition to conversion therapy is not based on arguments that it died not
"work".It is appropriately based on ethical arguments that
no person should be treated as fundamentally and essentially "broken"
and in need of being "fixed", especially as a youth!And that
is the same ethical argument many atheists have against religions that teach all
people they are fundamentally "sinful" (the natural man, etc) and need
to be fixed by a "savior".
I am truly sorry but body dysphoria is not the stress one feels between the
gender they were assigned and the gender they identify with. Body dysphoria is
the feeling that parts of the body do not belong. Like a foot, an arm, or other
body parts. Treatment for body dysphoria is the resolving stress about having
those parts and not removing them. What you refer to is gender dysphoria, which
like other dysphoria's are varying stages of mental illness. We should
treat the mentally ill with kindness and help them to live functional lives.
But we certainly do not help an individual with body dysphoria by cutting off
body parts for the sake of them becoming comfortable with who they feel they
jsf "We have been told that treating mental illness that causes stress in
the patient must be avoided. "No you haven't. The point of
mental illness treatment is to recognize stress and it's origins, and then
to resolve that stress. Sheer nonsense to call out endemic
conditions that may influence illegal behavior and then to imply that the left
who recognizes the foundational nature of the condition doesn't think the
illegal behavior should be punished. "Should we not treat body
dysphoria because it causes stress in a person. ". PS body dysphoria is the
stress one feels between the gender they were assigned and the gender they
identify with. Treatment for body dysphoria is the resolution of that stress
(becoming comfortable with who they feel they are).
After reading these comments it's easy to see which people are good
"Christians" or Mormons.I've always thought it
hypocritical of those that pass judgment on others and say; "it's in
the bible," to justify their bigotry. They claim their god can do no wrong,
which makes everything he does, right.So, if these good Christians
are against gays... Don't the christians always claim that god made man
in his own image? That god doesn't make mistakes?Our good
religious folks, by rejecting gays and believing they can change a gay person,
are telling their god that god made a mistake that man can fix.They
are saying their god made a mistake!Yup, the hypocrisy of religious
people knows no bounds. They are either doing something for god, which makes it
OK, or their god will forgive them.I believe it is MAN that is
wrong. If their god created gays, then god must be a little bit gay, having
made man in his own image.
Well that discussion kills the phycology profession. We have been told that
treating mental illness that causes stress in the patient must be avoided. Open
the asylums. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness same as depression, bi-polar,
schizophrenia. Many people can function with a mental illness, so we should not
allow them to be treated. Should we not treat body dysphoria because it causes
stress in a person. A pedophile must have been born that way, since people
argue sexual preferences are determined at birth. So it is wrong to treat and
then it is wrong to incarcerate? What about a rapist that has a sexual
aggressive preference to dominate, they must have been born that way.
Preventing or treating them might cause them to have suicidal thoughts.
Opinionated "It appears to me there are also those trying to
entice the vulnerable youth, who still trying to figure out all these new
emotions they are feeling, into the gay lifestyle. Of course kids feel more
comfortable around their same gender...but that doesn't mean they should
adopt the gay lifestyle."lost in DC - West Jordan"It is sad most of the mental health profession has given up helping
people overcome same sex attraction and other gender dysphoria issues."Joe hilll"Ernest There are those who recruit youths to
try homosexuality."Just like a guy hitting on a girl? I've been
hit on by guys hundreds of times (lived in Hollywood) and a simple;
"I'm flattered, but I'm straight" was all that was needed.
Neither of us had hurt feelings, but then, unlike many "anti's"
here, I'm comfortable as myself and don't have gay "FEAR"Opinionated "Cora Smith: Admittedly some are born with
those tendencies.I have seen many that lived the gay lifestyle return to a
straight lifestyle on their own once they recognized how unhappy they were and
had the desire to have children"With your comments about gays, I
doubt you know any. LDS Parental and societal pressure locally??
@OpinionatedBeing bisexual is a thing too... and one can be bisexual but
lean towards one end or the other. The people who "change" orientation
would tend to be more like that rather than someone who is only romantically
attracted to one or the other.
@HaHaHaHa you cant "fix" something that isn't broken. If a
person is having distress related to their sexual orientation or gender identity
there are safe treatments to assist with person with these difficulties that do
not include "fixing" or converting them.
Opinionated; Innuendo does not mean anything or prove anything. Tell us where
your credible citations can be found.Facts tell us that conversion therapy
is dangerous and unhealthy, with near death experiences besides depression and
suicide. I would never want innocents hurt in any way to please others
who don't like how they were born. It's unnatural to change
anyone's genetic makeup, besides the fact it's impossible. Why torture
people at all? What are the real reasons? I would love an educated answer with
facts/citations explaining why innocents should have to change their God given
genetic makeup. It's impossible.
And what wrong with getting "fixed"? None of the societal loudmouths
complaining about all the conversion efforts into the gay lifestyle?
@OpinionatedI would hope you have something more then your casual
observations and antidotal stories to back up such a bold assertion since none
of the science supports your claims.
Opinionated; What are your credible citations that prove your point?
Cora Smith: Admittedly some are born with those tendencies. However, in
almost every instance I know, the "tendency" has been fostered by
another, most often to vulnerable youth still trying to figure out their own
sexuality. I have seen many that lived the gay lifestyle return to a straight
lifestyle on their own once they recognized how unhappy they were and had the
desire to have children, without adoption or surrogacy.
@lost in DC every been to just about any other parade in those places, or
the beach or the public sidewalks, bars? it doesn't matter where you go
you will see heterosexuals flaunting there sex and nudity." again there is
really no difference in "lifestyle" just your own comfort with who is
Perhaps what the author says is true, but the original legislation was poorly
written.It is sad most of the mental health profession has given up
helping people overcome same sex attraction and other gender dysphoria
issues.Joe hilllGay lifestyle – ever seen the pride
parade in places like SF or Seattle? Gays there openly flaunting sex and
nudity.ErnestThere are those who recruit youths to try
To say people are "adopting the gay lifestyle" is not truthful and
actually silly. Read what the AMA and other sources say about our gay brothers
and sisters. They are born that way. The lifestyle they lead is just the same as
any decent American citizen. Who they love is nobody's business. There is
more danger in judging others and creating hate and danger in this world than
being born gay. Live and let live.
@Opinionate: Who is trying to get anyone "into the gay lifestyle." That
is simply not truthful. It has been verified that conversion therapy does not
work and is in fact damaging to those poor souls who have been forced in to it.
@Opinionated"the gay lifestyle"? Going to work, paying taxes,
cooking dinner, doing laundry, kids soccer games etc.. that lifestyle? The
reason that conversion therapy has been rounded condemned by every mental health
professional association is because it causes a proven harm and because it is
not the role of therapy to convert or "entice" patients.
It appears to me there are also those trying to entice the vulnerable youth, who
still trying to figure out all these new emotions they are feeling, into the gay
lifestyle. Of course kids feel more comfortable around their same gender...but
that doesn't mean they should adopt the gay lifestyle.