Letter: Conversion therapy preys on a vulnerable population

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  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    June 22, 2019 9:05 a.m.

    Opinionated - Sandy, UT

    Opinionated, BUT WRONG
    "It appears to me there are also those trying to entice the vulnerable youth, who still trying to figure out all these new emotions they are feeling, into the gay lifestyle. Of course kids feel more comfortable around their same gender...but that doesn't mean they should adopt the gay lifestyle."

    If you follow local news, it is primarily white Mormon men in Utah county that get caught trying to diddle with underage boys. A Mormon judge even apologized to a Mormon Bishop for having to sentence him, according to reports in the Deseret News. The greatest percentage of child molesters in the state is found in Utah County.

    At the same time, it is the people in Utah country that want to pursue "Conversion Therapy" to satisfy their homophobic religious beliefs. It was their god that created the person, so they are trying to tell god they will correct his mistake.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 20, 2019 12:59 p.m.

    If we are going to demand citations for what someone freely admits are personal observations, can we also get some citations or at least some examples of kids being forced into damaging conversion therapy today?

    The same left winger who get very exercised about "message bills" promoting conservative social values seem very eager to send a message of their own with this bill without offering up any evidence or even contemporary examples of kids being subjected to damaging conversion therapy.

    Or maybe, this is about more than just a message. Maybe it is about legally infringing the rights of free speech, religion, and parenting by imposing statutory penalties for even talking about homosexual conduct being immoral, unhealthy, or otherwise worth avoiding regardless of physical desires.

    As amended, the bill would have banned electroshock and aversion therapies while prohibiting false advertising about the success rate of conversion therapy. That protects from all overt harm. Why wasn't that a good bill? Why do the zealots demand a law that defines "conversion therapy" so broadly as to very likely include any discussion at all about the negatives of homosexual behavior?

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 20, 2019 12:57 p.m.

    If we are going to demand citations for what someone freely admits are personal observations, can we also get some citations or at least some examples of kids being forced into damaging conversion therapy today?

    The same left winger who get very exercised about "message bills" promoting conservative social values seem very eager to send a message of their own with this bill without offering up any evidence or even contemporary examples of kids being subjected to damaging conversion therapy.

    Or maybe, this is about more than just a message. Maybe it is about legally infringing the rights of free speech, religion, and parenting by imposing statutory penalties for even talking about homosexual conduct being immoral, unhealthy, or otherwise worth avoiding regardless of physical desires.

    As amended, the bill would have banned electroshock and aversion therapies while prohibiting false advertising about the success rate of conversion therapy. That protects from all overt harm. Why wasn't that a good bill? Why do the zealots demand a law that defines "conversion therapy" so broadly as to very likely include any discussion at all about the negatives of homosexual behavior?

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 18, 2019 8:07 p.m.

    @The Atheist: "It is appropriately based on ethical arguments that no person should be treated as fundamentally and essentially "broken" and in need of being "fixed", especially as a youth!"

    So the kid with a temper doesn't need to learn to bridle his tongue and fists?

    The drunk doesn't need to recover?

    The lazy person doesn't need to learn a work ethic?

    The covetous would not be better if they were to stop comparing themselves to others and instead take joy in their own lives?

    The criminal doesn't need to be rehabilitated?

    The adulterer or even unmarried "playa" might not consider abiding faithfullness and chastity?

    The obese would not be well served by losing weight and living a more healthy lifestyle?

    Lots of people have areas where they need to improve their lives.

    Whether same sex attraction or gender dysphopia are traits that can or should be "fixed" is a fine area for debate. For decades I heard that such traits had to be inborn because "who would ever choose to be gay?" Well, if nobody would choose to be homosexual, maybe some folks would like to try to choose not to be homosexual.

    I don't know if that is possible. But logic ought to trump rhetoric and politics.

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    March 18, 2019 3:14 a.m.

    Opposition to conversion therapy is not based on arguments that it died not "work".

    It is appropriately based on ethical arguments that no person should be treated as fundamentally and essentially "broken" and in need of being "fixed", especially as a youth!

    And that is the same ethical argument many atheists have against religions that teach all people they are fundamentally "sinful" (the natural man, etc) and need to be fixed by a "savior".

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    March 17, 2019 11:44 p.m.

    I am truly sorry but body dysphoria is not the stress one feels between the gender they were assigned and the gender they identify with. Body dysphoria is the feeling that parts of the body do not belong. Like a foot, an arm, or other body parts. Treatment for body dysphoria is the resolving stress about having those parts and not removing them. What you refer to is gender dysphoria, which like other dysphoria's are varying stages of mental illness. We should treat the mentally ill with kindness and help them to live functional lives. But we certainly do not help an individual with body dysphoria by cutting off body parts for the sake of them becoming comfortable with who they feel they are.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    March 16, 2019 9:56 a.m.

    jsf "We have been told that treating mental illness that causes stress in the patient must be avoided. "

    No you haven't. The point of mental illness treatment is to recognize stress and it's origins, and then to resolve that stress.

    Sheer nonsense to call out endemic conditions that may influence illegal behavior and then to imply that the left who recognizes the foundational nature of the condition doesn't think the illegal behavior should be punished.

    "Should we not treat body dysphoria because it causes stress in a person. ". PS body dysphoria is the stress one feels between the gender they were assigned and the gender they identify with. Treatment for body dysphoria is the resolution of that stress (becoming comfortable with who they feel they are).

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    March 16, 2019 9:08 a.m.

    After reading these comments it's easy to see which people are good "Christians" or Mormons.

    I've always thought it hypocritical of those that pass judgment on others and say; "it's in the bible," to justify their bigotry. They claim their god can do no wrong, which makes everything he does, right.

    So, if these good Christians are against gays... Don't the christians always claim that god made man in his own image? That god doesn't make mistakes?

    Our good religious folks, by rejecting gays and believing they can change a gay person, are telling their god that god made a mistake that man can fix.

    They are saying their god made a mistake!

    Yup, the hypocrisy of religious people knows no bounds. They are either doing something for god, which makes it OK, or their god will forgive them.

    I believe it is MAN that is wrong. If their god created gays, then god must be a little bit gay, having made man in his own image.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    March 16, 2019 12:26 a.m.

    Well that discussion kills the phycology profession. We have been told that treating mental illness that causes stress in the patient must be avoided. Open the asylums. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness same as depression, bi-polar, schizophrenia. Many people can function with a mental illness, so we should not allow them to be treated. Should we not treat body dysphoria because it causes stress in a person. A pedophile must have been born that way, since people argue sexual preferences are determined at birth. So it is wrong to treat and then it is wrong to incarcerate? What about a rapist that has a sexual aggressive preference to dominate, they must have been born that way. Preventing or treating them might cause them to have suicidal thoughts.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 4:03 p.m.

    Opinionated

    "It appears to me there are also those trying to entice the vulnerable youth, who still trying to figure out all these new emotions they are feeling, into the gay lifestyle. Of course kids feel more comfortable around their same gender...but that doesn't mean they should adopt the gay lifestyle."

    lost in DC - West Jordan

    "It is sad most of the mental health profession has given up helping people overcome same sex attraction and other gender dysphoria issues."

    Joe hilll

    "Ernest There are those who recruit youths to try homosexuality."
    Just like a guy hitting on a girl? I've been hit on by guys hundreds of times (lived in Hollywood) and a simple; "I'm flattered, but I'm straight" was all that was needed. Neither of us had hurt feelings, but then, unlike many "anti's" here, I'm comfortable as myself and don't have gay "FEAR"

    Opinionated

    "Cora Smith: Admittedly some are born with those tendencies.I have seen many that lived the gay lifestyle return to a straight lifestyle on their own once they recognized how unhappy they were and had the desire to have children"

    With your comments about gays, I doubt you know any. LDS Parental and societal pressure locally??

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 2:14 p.m.

    @Opinionated
    Being bisexual is a thing too... and one can be bisexual but lean towards one end or the other. The people who "change" orientation would tend to be more like that rather than someone who is only romantically attracted to one or the other.

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 2:13 p.m.

    @HaHaHaHa
    you cant "fix" something that isn't broken. If a person is having distress related to their sexual orientation or gender identity there are safe treatments to assist with person with these difficulties that do not include "fixing" or converting them.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    March 15, 2019 1:24 p.m.

    Opinionated; Innuendo does not mean anything or prove anything. Tell us where your credible citations can be found.
    Facts tell us that conversion therapy is dangerous and unhealthy, with near death experiences besides depression and suicide.
    I would never want innocents hurt in any way to please others who don't like how they were born. It's unnatural to change anyone's genetic makeup, besides the fact it's impossible. Why torture people at all? What are the real reasons? I would love an educated answer with facts/citations explaining why innocents should have to change their God given genetic makeup. It's impossible.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    March 15, 2019 1:23 p.m.

    And what wrong with getting "fixed"? None of the societal loudmouths complaining about all the conversion efforts into the gay lifestyle?

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 1:21 p.m.

    @Opinionated
    I would hope you have something more then your casual observations and antidotal stories to back up such a bold assertion since none of the science supports your claims.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    March 15, 2019 12:48 p.m.

    Opinionated; What are your credible citations that prove your point?

  • Opinionated Sandy, UT
    March 15, 2019 12:39 p.m.

    Cora Smith:
    Admittedly some are born with those tendencies. However, in almost every instance I know, the "tendency" has been fostered by another, most often to vulnerable youth still trying to figure out their own sexuality. I have seen many that lived the gay lifestyle return to a straight lifestyle on their own once they recognized how unhappy they were and had the desire to have children, without adoption or surrogacy.

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:48 a.m.

    @lost in DC
    every been to just about any other parade in those places, or the beach or the public sidewalks, bars? it doesn't matter where you go you will see heterosexuals flaunting there sex and nudity." again there is really no difference in "lifestyle" just your own comfort with who is living it.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:28 a.m.

    Perhaps what the author says is true, but the original legislation was poorly written.

    It is sad most of the mental health profession has given up helping people overcome same sex attraction and other gender dysphoria issues.

    Joe hilll
    Gay lifestyle – ever seen the pride parade in places like SF or Seattle? Gays there openly flaunting sex and nudity.

    Ernest
    There are those who recruit youths to try homosexuality.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:16 a.m.

    To say people are "adopting the gay lifestyle" is not truthful and actually silly. Read what the AMA and other sources say about our gay brothers and sisters. They are born that way. The lifestyle they lead is just the same as any decent American citizen. Who they love is nobody's business. There is more danger in judging others and creating hate and danger in this world than being born gay. Live and let live.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    March 15, 2019 10:34 a.m.

    @Opinionate: Who is trying to get anyone "into the gay lifestyle." That is simply not truthful. It has been verified that conversion therapy does not work and is in fact damaging to those poor souls who have been forced in to it.

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 10:28 a.m.

    @Opinionated
    "the gay lifestyle"? Going to work, paying taxes, cooking dinner, doing laundry, kids soccer games etc.. that lifestyle? The reason that conversion therapy has been rounded condemned by every mental health professional association is because it causes a proven harm and because it is not the role of therapy to convert or "entice" patients.

  • Opinionated Sandy, UT
    March 15, 2019 9:41 a.m.

    It appears to me there are also those trying to entice the vulnerable youth, who still trying to figure out all these new emotions they are feeling, into the gay lifestyle. Of course kids feel more comfortable around their same gender...but that doesn't mean they should adopt the gay lifestyle.