Second Utah House committee rejects 'Lauren's Law'

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  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 12, 2019 5:54 p.m.

    @Misty Mountain: "If you lend your car to someone, you are responsible for any damage that happens as a result of that person driving your car."

    No, I am not. I defy anyone to show me statute making me liable for the deliberate criminal conduct of an adult who borrows my car. Show me the statute, in Utah code, or it doesn't exist.

    My auto-insurance will cover financial liability from accidents. But check your policy. Liability insurance does not cover deliberate criminal conduct. So, if I lend my car to someone and he ends up committing a crime, whether DUI or deliberately using the car to run down and murder a group of people, my insurance isn't paying out. And neither am I personally unless someone can demonstrate that I knew or should have known that the person borrowing my car had criminal intent.

    "Why should it be different if you lend your gun to someone?"

    How about we do treat guns like cars? Once licensed in any State, I can drive my car in every State even if that State would not license my car there. Similarly, my Driver License is good nationwide.

    When my permit to carry my 15 round self defense handgun is recognized nationwide, you can compare cars to guns.

  • Enough is enough! Saint George, UT
    March 12, 2019 10:29 a.m.

    No matter whether a law like this is enacted or not, every college freshman or transfer student should be REQUIRED to sit through a presentation on this and other tragic, senseless situations. They should be taught their personal responsibility not to fall for con men like this murderer was. Meet in groups, don't give out your phone number and address to anyone who wants it and pays attention to you. Spending the night is a sure way to get yourself in trouble. You could end up with a disease or an unwanted child or some compromising photos and videos.

    Maybe this will save another innocent, naive young person from making the bad choices she made in the beginning. Please don't misinterpret this as me believing she is responsible for her death, but she put herself in a bad situation.

    Hopefully, parents, police officers, coaches, friends, whomever will believe those who are trapped in these situation and physically help them get out of them. It may require the parents coming to the school and getting their child and taking her/him home.

  • What in Tucket Provo, UT
    March 12, 2019 10:15 a.m.

    Concealed carry holders are about 1/6th as likely to commit a gun crime than the average citizen.

  • Tumbleweed Centerville, UT
    March 12, 2019 9:11 a.m.

    This bill was flawed and rejected by our wise legislators because it had the potential of imposing "strict liability" on a totally innocent person. Common law already imposes liability on someone who negligently loans anything to someone he or she knows could harm another with the object. However, there is no justice in punishing an innocent person in loaning something to someone not knowing the loan is going to result in another person being harmed. This bill proposed to do just that. Read the bill.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    March 12, 2019 9:08 a.m.

    The right to keep and bear arms is meant for two purposes: 1) for self defense and 2) to protect against tyrannical governments that think they should rule with an iron fist because they know better than you.

    In other words, to protect against the current Democrat/Socialist party. It's no wonder the left is so fired up to seize weapons of the law abiding. All of these "gun control" measures are not aimed at criminal gun violence; they are explicitly aimed at targeting the law abiding.

    And that is because throughout history, the left's plans of total governmental dictatorship have relied on a disarmed populace. Never forget: the Revolutionary War's first battles at Lexington and Concord were fought because the British were trying to seize the citizenry's weapons.

    The King was very, very pro "gun control" because his control of what he called his subjects depended on said subjects being unable to fight back. Just like today's Socialists want subjects, serfs, and ultimately slaves.

    The places with the highest levels of leftist control, with the strictest gun laws, are also the places with the highest criminal gun violence.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    March 12, 2019 9:02 a.m.

    Lauren's Law made too much sense.

    No wonder it was put on hold by Utah republicans.

    Spare me all the nra bromides.

    The nra and the republican party do not want anyone who happens to own a weapon to be held responsible/accountable for anything that happens to anyone who happens to use that weapon to murder another human being.


  • mohokat , 00
    March 12, 2019 8:55 a.m.

    The Second Amendment Prevails. Pretty simple. Shall not be infringed.

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    March 12, 2019 8:45 a.m.

    Misty mountain,

    That's simply not true. Your insurance may be used, but that's because the insurance is insuring the car, not the driver.

    Please cite an example of someone being held personally liable for others damages caused by a borrowed car, or stop spreading misinformation.

  • Red Smith , 00
    March 12, 2019 8:39 a.m.

    If you lend money to someone and they commit a crime, are you supposed to go to jail with them?

    If your employee commits a crime, is the employer going to jail or pay the damages?

    If you buy someone a lunch, and they get sick am I liable for the damages?

    Our cry baby, belly aching society is always looking to put the blame on someone else. We have created a cage of 80,000 laws and regulations for the illusion of a perfect life.

    We just don't need 500 new State laws a year to live. This was a stupid bill.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    March 12, 2019 8:20 a.m.

    Once again the legislature goes Pro-Gun even though it could and has put the lives of citizens at risk.

    I've never seen such a group of people that support guns more than they support people.

    Owning a gun is a right, but not one without consequences.

  • Rusty Shackleford Layton, UT
    March 12, 2019 8:01 a.m.


    You really appear to be naive on this issue. You are right that the murderer is not licensed, but no one is. There is no licensing of guns in most states and for sure not in Utah.

    Let me pose this one to you. If you loaned your car to your neighbor who you thought was a good upstanding citizen, but on his way to return it to you, stopped at the bar and had a couple drinks and then killed someone on the way to you house because he was driving under the influence. How liable are you for that murder? If you loan your car to someone, you have some responsibility for what they do with it. Right?

    And as a gun owner, we are way down the road of "impinging" on my gun rights.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    March 12, 2019 7:55 a.m.

    "Nancy Halden, representing Gun Violence Prevention Center of Utah, disagreed. She said Utah code relies on prohibitions of criminals owning firearms, which she said did not deter McCluskey's killer from obtaining a gun."

    Surprisingly, criminals do not obey laws, and laws to not prevent crimes. Laws only aloow prosecution of someone after they break a law.

    Lauren's killer violated numerous existing laws- murder (illegal since the 10 Commandments); possessing a gun on the U campus; carrying a concealed weapon without a permit; possession of a gun by a prohibited person; stalking; making threats, etc.

    He was a glib con man, fooling Lauren and also the gun owner into thinking he was a nice guy, not a sex offender felon. He borrowed the gun with a plausible excuse for a legal purpose.

    The parole board, parole officers and U police failed to detect his criminal acts, and bear much more responsibility than the gun owner.

    Let's start by enforcing the laws against illegal gun possession, especially the 1,300 felons, druggies, mentally ill, or domestic abusers turned down by background checks who were not prosecuted last year.

    Enforce current laws!

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    March 12, 2019 7:05 a.m.

    If you lend your car to someone, you are responsible for any damage that happens as a result of that person driving your car.

    Why should it be different if you lend your gun to someone?

  • 1Reader Alpine, UT
    March 12, 2019 1:03 a.m.

    Guns are particularly lethal. What would be the harm in holding people accountable for giving weapons to murderers (who are not licensed)? If I loan my lethal weapon to someone, I have some responsibility for what they do with it.
    This bill would only be a "slippery slope" to safety and responsibility. We are so far from impinging on fair and reasonable gun rights.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    March 11, 2019 9:15 p.m.

    At least 4 different government agencies failed to protect the citizens in this case:

    -The Parole board released a man early who clearly wasn't rehabilitated.
    -The Parole Officer failed to recognize problems that would have put the man back into prison.
    -The University of Utah police failed to respond to the victim's concerns.
    -The Salt Lake City police department failed to respond to the victims concerns.

    All of these agencies and their individual officers/employers had access to the criminal records of the man accused of murder. All are professionally trained to deal with criminals.

    The proposed bill imposes zero liability on any of these agencies or individuals.

    Instead, it focuses on the one, private citizen who--without access to any criminal records--made the mistake of lending a gun to a friend who turned out to be a violent felon.

    Why does the bill sponsor ignore 4 professional, government agencies and their officers/employees while focusing on the 1 private individual who had the least amount of information available?

    Is this a sad attempt to divert attention from the real problem? Or another attack on the individual right to own firearms for self defense?

  • Thomas Paine South Jordan, UT
    March 11, 2019 8:23 p.m.

    This law wouldn’t have saved Lauren. The U of U Police doing their job may have helped more. It’s a shame that they used her name to attempt to pass a law that puts gun owners at risk without any real benefit to society.

  • Sanefan Wellsville, UT
    March 11, 2019 8:03 p.m.

    Good, sanity prevails!

  • wer South Jordan, UT
    March 11, 2019 8:02 p.m.

    Good decision.