State Department aware Russian police detaining 2 Latter-day Saint volunteers

2 bits,

Thanks for the tutorial, but I’m not persuaded. I googled, as you suggested. Here is what I found:

“In a detention, the police only need reasonable suspicion to stop an individual, and a reasonable person would feel as though they could leave in a short amount of time. This timeframe can vary a bit based on the circumstances, but the U.S. Supreme Court has held that 20 minutes or so is a reasonable timeframe for detaining someone.”

“An arrest is characterized by the idea that a reasonable person would not feel free to leave due to the actions of the law enforcement officers. This usually means that the officers take the individual into custody.”

[from criminal-law.freeadvice.com]

I think “arrested” is a more accurate and more honest word than “detained.” I understand why the Russians would prefer that we use “detained.” I have to suppose the two elders probably feel more “arrested” than “detained.”

But in any case, you didn’t disagree with “jailed.”

“Two Young Latter-day Saint Volunteers Jailed in Russia” would be a more accurate headline than anything saying “detained.”

Gotta love the liberals that have this weird Love-Hate Love relationship with Russia depending on who is involved.

@ji 11:55 a.m.
RE: "I wonder why the headline and article speaks of detained. Wouldn’t it be more honest to say arrested and jailed?"...
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No. In legal jargon there's a distinct difference between being "Detained" and being "Arrested".

Google "difference between detained and arrested"...

Police can "Detained" you without charging you. If you're being Detained, you're not under Arrest.

To "Arrest" you, police must have probable cause, and must charge you with a specific crime.

You can be "Detained" for anything. Even just for your safety, or other's safety, while they continue their investigation.

They aren't the same. You can be Detained without being Arrested. And if you're under Arrest, you're not being detained, you're under arrest (meaning you have been charged with a specific crime).

They were "Detained". That means they are not free to leave, but they have not been charged with a crime (yet). When/IF they are charged with a crime... they are under Arrest, not Detained.

The reports specifically stating they were "Detained"... means they haven't been charged. They may be charged by now. But then they would be under Arrest, not just detained.

@debhenlin
RE: "It has to help that the current U.S. Ambassador to Russia, Jon Huntsman, was a previous Governor of Utah and a former LDS missionary himself"...
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Probably doesn't hurt, does it....

If our ambassador was a missionary when he was young, and they respect Huntsman, they may respect these young men.

I get the feeling some Cop is going to get a lecture for overreacting and embarrassing Russia. And the volunteers are going to be reprimanded for not following their leader's instructions (if they were proselyting).

They will probably have to be resigned/transferred to another country. So Russia doesn't lose face. And to lessen the trauma of what they went through. I don't know if I could stay in Russia and be comfortable after that.

There will probably be more strict obedience to the rules after this.

Volunteers who work in the BYU Jerusalem Center are warned not to proselyte. So are students who study at to the Jerusalem Center. It's really not that unheard of for volunteers to serve, and not proselyte.

It has to help that the current U.S. Ambassador to Russia, Jon Huntsman, was a previous Governor of Utah and a former LDS missionary himself.

Well said, bassoonlady!

The charges may have been nothing more than a convenient pretext for detaining two young Americans whose ostensible 'volunteer' work is regarded with skepticism by Russian authorities.

I wonder why the headline and article speaks of detained. Wouldn’t it be more honest to say arrested and jailed?

bassoonlady,

I took off my colored glasses and dropped religion completely after 3 decades of living "in the faith".

The truth has set me free!

Try it.

The State Department certainly could say more. They could answer whether or not they have made consular visits to the jailed U.S. citizens — making those visits is their job.

@the atheist.
I have to admit your comment was amusing.
Perhaps you have access to information that the rest of us don't have, but there is no information in the article to back your inference, but In fact there seems to be more to take the article at face value, since they were accused of teaching English, not of prosolyting.
Not to say that they couldn't have been teaching English in another setting, but that seems far outside the normal pattern and we have no information to tell us about it one way or another.

There are those of us that defend all things lds, but there are those who fight against all things LDS, too. Both are wearing colored glasses. Perhaps you should take yours off and then you'll see more clearly to adjust the color of others. Just a thought.

Many defenders of all things LDS, who seem to believe that no missionary ("volunteer") could possibly do anything wrong, much less break a law, would have us believe that these good people were illegally arrested. After all, they were "in the church" and it is legal in that country to preach and "teach English" inside the church.

Please remove your green-jello colored glasses!

While it is the case that they were "arrested...during a meeting at a church meetinghouse last Friday", that does not mean that the crimes took place at that time.

It is such partisan-like bias that undermines your organization's claims to be in the pursuit of "truth".

Maybe its time that Mormon parents stop encouraging their Children to go on Church missions.

Ernest T. Bass - Bountiful, UT
RE: "Why call them volunteers? We all know they are missionaries, who are actively recruiting, which is why they got in trouble with the law"...
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Your Assumption may be right. But I've never seen that in any news article or communication. Do you have a news source we don't have?

If they were proselyting they are in violation of their mission president's rules, and Russian laws. They are not to proselyte.

And this isn't unusual, or limited to Russia. There are lots of missions, where they don't Proselyte. My neighbor is on a mission, and all he does is records extraction for family history databases. I ride the train with a couple on a mission and all they do is office work (never taught a lesson). My neighbors served in Africa and all they did was help communities get clean water and build schools and hospitals. No Proselyting. I was asked to not proselytize for 2 months on my mission. It was fun. I was opening a new area. President told me to Just find an apartment, get to know my neighbors, teach English classes so people in the neighborhood could get used to seeing us and having us around, etc. No Proselyting. It was fun.

Complain if you will, it has been a well known fact that (as the lord says) there must be opposition in all things. Missionaries (volunteers) can face any difficulty with the aid of the Holy Ghost. In fact, it is through opposition that the Lord can show His power. We should all say, as President John Taylor (third president of the church) always would say, that he welcomed trials, because it is only through trials that we grow in strength. Trials help us grow, and our missionary/volunteers will prove their own metal as they face trials in faith.

Earnest,

According to the Russian law, it is legal to proselytize inside a church building. That where they were. This was stated in the first article published about this.

The issue that triggered the actions was the Russian authorities claiming the missionaries were teaching English illegally.

And, what is a missionary from the church if not a volunteer? Men and women voluntarily serve and pay for their own missions. Both "missionary" and "volunteer" can logically be applied.

Seems entirely plausible these young men actually violated the law.

Whether or not it was a just law is irrelevant.

I knew missionaries who broke the law myself when I was one, such as trespassing, and paid fines for it. They are not exempt from consequence either.

That said, even if they did, hopefully deportation is the strongest sentence they face.

Russian jails are among the most terrifying on earth with regards to conditions.