I have chaired precinct caucus meetings a number of times over the years and it
became clear to me that the meeting scripts and instructions were constructed to
create a pep rally atmosphere rather than to gather as neighbors and discuss
issues. So when I chaired, we created our own meeting script and invited
discussion of issues - and invited candidates for delegate positions to share
their stands on those issues. We thus avoided the clandestine delegate-packing
that has given us Senator Lee and others who now work against the voters.The argument that SB54 is unconstitutional is a ruse to avoid giving all
party members representation. Keep My Vote is a ruse to Consolidate My Power.
The caucus-convention system can be a positive resource, along with the primary
system, if the Keep My Vote folks will allow it to be.
@shancock writes,"I’m also frustrated by Senator
Lee’s comments again. He doesn’t seem interested in working through
issues. It is his way or no way. It is not what we need in a senator right
now."Very true. We also don't need that in a president.
This is why a really struggle with the Utah GOP. They need to get in line with
the majority of Utah Republicans. The Utah United Party and the Democractic
party in Utah respect my ability to choose candidates more than the Utah
Republican Party.I’m also frustrated by Senator Lee’s
comments again. He doesn’t seem interested in working through issues. It
is his way or no way. It is not what we need in a senator right now.
"While it is unfortunate the SCOTUS did not accept the case, it does not
mean they agree with the previous ruling."And it doesnt mean
they disagree with it either, 'captain'. LOL.
Holy-Schamoly-What Baloney writes, "A pity this large sum of
money wasn't spent or donated to the education of children instead of this
foolishness by the GOP hierarchy."The idea that the GOP would
give a fig leaf about children, let alone donate money to educate them, is
Too bad. The Republican good ole boys like to choose candidates, not the pesky
voters that don't know what's good for them.Mike Lee,
Utah's top self proclaimed constitutional scholar should have seen this
coming. After all, he knows more about the constitution than anyone. Isn't
that why he went to DC? To show those rubes back there how the constitution
works?Now, this fiasco was brought about by the party of fiscal
responsibility, so who pays for the costs of their ill fated joust at windmills?
Do taxpayers get stuck paying for their folly, or the Republican
Granny, we serve in our local republican caucus, but in reality most of us are
turning independent and are happy about Count My Vote. The Keep My Voice folks
are few, and the majority don’t care about volunteering 200 plus hours
each year in a caucus system that doesn’t represent the people. After the
last 16 hour disaster of a state meeting, half of our caucus quit and the other
half would like to quit as well. Sigh.
To “Captain Green” of Heber City, who argues that “private
parties” such as the GOP have 1st Amendment rights to do as they please in
selecting candidates to stand in public elections: read US Supreme
Court’s 1944 decision Smith v. Allright, declaring that state political
parties violated the Constitution when they “did as they pleased” to
bar blacks from participating in state party primary election, effectively
disenfranchising citizens. A political party that selects candidates for public
office cannot just “do as it pleases” in that process. A myopic
view of 1st Amendment rights as expressed in your letter to the editor, can be
corrected to a clearer vision through the lense of education. Even if you feel
really strongly about the reach of the Constitution, such feelings, which you
certainly have a right to retain, cannot trump the law of the land as expressed
clearly by the Supreme Court. Informed opinions, grounded on a solid foundation
built through education — that is, by reading and learning — promote
civic and civil discourse. Uninformed expressions of passion and myth, on the
other hand, undermine our community and harden our political differences.
I saw how Mike Lee subverted our caucus in our neighborhood. The caucus
didn’t have a good process to verify participants until the next caucus.
There were probably twice as many attendees than normal and Senator Bennett was
surprisingly ousted. The next neighborhood caucuses had rolls of people to
verify and validate actual registration and used IDs to ensure actual neighbors
eligible to vote.The various county and the the state convention
processes have gone to some validation but then use electronic tabulation with
little clickers.The state committee approved these without valid
security processes as compared to the voting judges and verification. This was
done to speed up the process. There were periodic glitches. The
same people keep on getting elected at caucus conventions.
Captian Green 'It is a sad day for Utah if Mob Rule such as Count My Vote
prevails!" ... what are you expecting to happen next. The Utah Republicans
will appeal the decision to not hear the case? They will say double please?
"And we need to stay that way! It is a sad day for Utah if Mob
Rule such as Count My Vote prevails! "As of right now, that is
exactly what has happened...The issue here is the state's
republican party has spoken, and the voters spoke back, in two ways. The
republicans lost a seat in the house. The republicans were also out fund
raised in Utah by the democrats. And finally the fastest growing voting block
in utah, by huge percentages, are independents. The Utah party is
loosing the hearts of the voters... and their continuing to attack the will of
he people is turning more and more off in the state. Less than half of the
states votes are Republican. Almost 40% are independent voters.
Disenfranchising those voters.... not a good idea.Democrats with
only 13% of the voters raised more this last election than Republicans with 46%
of the voters....
Identify those politicians who voted for this law and vote them out. Problem
While it is unfortunate the SCOTUS did not accept the case, it does not mean
they agree with the previous ruling. Count My Vote and SB54 are clear violations
of a private institution's (Political Party) right to select their nominees
for an election any way they see fit. No one (including the State) can dictate
that to a private party. The 1st Amendment protected right of free speech and
association clearly means the GOP can pick their candidates as they choose. The
Utah Legislature has an obligation to repeal SB54 and disregard the Count My
Vote initiative, which is nothing less than Mob Rule. We are a Representative
Republic... NOT a Democracy! And we need to stay that way! It is a sad day for
Utah if Mob Rule such as Count My Vote prevails! What will be the next freedom
to be taken away?!
"Let us no longer pit ourselves against one another," he said in a
statement. "Instead, let us strengthen our party from within."I think this ship has already sailed, and apparently it was the good ship
Titanic. The Republican Party is seriously fractured in Utah, and the country,
and there will be little attempted to repair the damage. Those on the far right
will continue to search for ways to ensure far right candidates are the only
option. They will protect the favorite children in any way they can. Those in
the middle, can rejoice for a time, but will still not be accepted in the party.
I suspect this will weaken the United Utah party for a time and
perhaps even kill it. Those that want to hide their works will continue to do
so, it will just be a bit more difficult now.
I guess I have a different view from most of you. I enjoyed the
caucus meetings because my neighbors and I worked hard to get everyone out,
actively asking for their opinions and concerns. It's truly the
grassroots—neighborhoods deciding together, supporting the decision made
and being part of the process. Then those elected were accountable to those
neighbors. Our precinct took it seriously. We had to agree to disagree on
occasion, but we are a stronger and more unified neighborhood because of it. For those who chose not to participate, it was their loss and their
The Gadiantons took a beating on this one.
So is the Utah GOP Going to pay the states court costs for defending the law
against their fools errand? Asking for a friend...
Hooray! It is beyond time to end the 'good old boys at the Alta club'
getting to pick all our representatives.
RIP caucus system. Sad, but it is now. When a politician doesn't have to
answer questions from representative delegates it frees them up make TV ads. A
blow to representative democracy at its purest form and the neighborhood level.
Yes, Yes, and forever Yes. The Central Committee of the Utah Republican Party
is defeated. There is justice in the US. I am so excited to seem them
defeated. This committee thinks that they should be the last and only voice for
the People in the State of Utah. How wrong they are. Hopefully the people
will one day have a voice in Utah again. Soon; I hope.
But, but, but . . . . I thought trump was going to Make The Court Great Again by
stuffing it with justices who think like conservatives think they should
think.What went wrong ?
"Don Guymon of the Utah GOP's Constitutional Defense Committee ....
said he believes the 10th Circuit Court ruling ... would "imperil"
rights of assembly, speech for political parties, labor unions, private
universities and religious organizations..." SMOKESCREEN!!! What he is
really upset about is that the power he and his pals have enjoyed wielding in
Utah politics was just made null & void! No longer can a few tell everyone
else what they must do! WAAAH!Joseph Smith knew this many years ago
when he recorded, "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature
and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, AS
THEY SUPPOSE, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous
dominion..." (D&C 21:39) Well that is what this has been all
about. What they couldn't control by public fiat, they decided to control
by the exercise of unrighteous dominion. And now they have lost their "cloak
of invisibility" and their works are now forced into the daylight for all to
see, the EDUCATED PUBLIC realizes that this was all a sham to keep a few in
power at the expense of the many. Well, I think the "many" are about to
start kicking butts and taking names.
Typical single party rule....Utah Republicans really don't care
or "represent" the people of Utah.1st it was this, trying to
over turn "Count My Vote" initiative.Then, they ignored and
iver ride 4 initiatives last November:Taxing gasoline for roads (for
the children)Medical MarijuanaMedicaid expansionRedrawing
DistrictsSelf serving, autocracyThere must be an
opposition in ALL things...
This is a definite loss and possible death to grassroots politics where
neighbors (a precinct) get together, discuss issues and candidates (caucus),
and decide on who will best represent their neighborhood at the conventions. It
is grassroots - not a small group of "party oligarchs"It is
a definite win for the established and wealthy political aspirants who can
afford to buy votes (signatures) with the most TV time or other flashy media.The caucus process is for a Party Members to select their candidate. It
is for those willing to get involved at the grassroots Example: Rob
Bishop was able to get the support he needed and work through the caucus system
even though he was a school teacher. Mitt Romney was able to gather the
signatures using a much bigger, most costly political machine (he did not need
to do that as he had name recognition and trust of the party already and won
coming out of the convention as well)
The last thing we need is the voters actually deciding who gets on the ballot.
I’m Republican and think the Rs are dead wrong on this one. Good
ol’ boy politics stinks. I like having the right to choose my candidate
for the general election and not some backroom deal doing it.
Looks like Mike Lee will actually have to get out and campaign to be re-elected
rather than getting elected by the caucus. First thing might be to
study the constitution more and realize there are three branches of government
and a thing called balance of power. Trump isn’t two of the three
The caucus convention system was always destined to fail as long as
participation rates continued to plummet. As participation fell over the years,
extreme factions saw an opening to hi jack the system. Once the radicals had
gained substantial control, there was no incentive to get the
“average” party member out to attend and participate in their local
caucus meetings; quite the opposite in fact. The spiral continued until the big
donors to the republican party had had enough and Count My Vote was born. Just remember that this all started because “average”
voters, at least on the republican side, stoped participating in the caucus
process and instead preferred, for better or worse, the direct primary system.
I guess all those letters read over the pulpit to participate in local caucus
meetings didn’t really help.
I think the Keep My Voice people are either seriously misunderstanding or
seriously distorting the constitutional principles they claim are being violated
here. I see the same problem with them as with the Utah legislature: they seem
to think a political party or state means its powerful leaders, not the the
regular people in it..
Surprising, Lee is proven to be on the wrong side . . . AGAIN!
I don't get why anyone is opposed to people qualifying for a ballot outside
of the caucus process. I have lived in California and Connecticut where the
voters selected people via primary elections. The caucus system is a good old
boys thing. I went to my caucus meeting last election and was BORED out of my
mind. It encourages the same small group of people to decide for everyone. The
caucus should be eliminated and we should go to a primary system where people
collect signatures to get on the ballot.
So the people not solely the party get to a role in deciding the candidates we
see on the ballot. And that's a bad thing for Senator Lee and Rob Bishop?
I believe the courts are correct after all that’s how the best people got
in office including Representative Curtis and Senator Romney. Governor Herbert
is right, do not challenge this law. This is a warning for those in the
legislator who might now wish to overturn this law. We the people are watching.
We do not want a small group of self appointed oligarchs who think the know
better than everyone else tell us who we have a right to vote for. We are just
as intelligent as they are if not more so.
@Latuva: Political parties enjoy privileges that other private organizations do
not, such as:* Having a label next to their preferred
candidates' names on the taxpayer-funded ballot* The ability to
choose all the state's presidential electors if their nominee gets a
plurality of the votes in the presidential general election*
Privileges in legislative rules regarding selection of leadership, committee
assignments, etc. when that party controls a majority of seats in the chamberThese publicly funded privileges come at a reasonable price: a political
party must adhere to certain platform-neutral regulations imposed by the state
to protect the public interest. One of those regulations is provided
by SB54: that in addition to any other nomination process the party may wish to
use, it must allow its general membership a way to get a candidate nominated
through signature gathering. This protects the public interest by promoting
widespread participation in the political process by all party members, not a
cadre of insiders and party bosses.The Supreme Court did the right
thing here. The GOP needs to move on.
A pity this large sum of money wasn't spent or donated to the education of
children instead of this foolishness by the GOP hierarchy.
Voter supression will not be endorsed by the SCOTUS...at least in this case.Good.The republicans can do whatever they want... in
Utah.Why go to such great lengths to be ignored by their celebrated
sure thing right-wing 5-4 majority SCOTUS?Maybe the sure thing is
not a sure thing?One can only hope.
This is an unfortunate turn. States and groups may now dictate how private
organizations organize (political and not) - even if such persons are not
actively involved. Glad for the many Friends of the Court support even as this
turn is surprising.
Utah's Republican party really doesn't like voters being able to work
around them, do they?
Lee is just as bad of an attorney, as he is a senator. He doesn't seem to
know what is constitutional; is very bad arguing his case; and doing anything
worthwhile, but on a positive note, he is good at driving UP the national
debt.We need a competent senator who will stand up to Trump. Lee
doesn't seem to know that the nation's interests in maintaining
three-equal branches of government is more important than rolling-over to the
president.Lee, Trump will not appoint you to be a judge, no matter
how much you kowtow to him.
How much money was wasted in this yet another attempt by the Republican
establishment to restrict access and voter choice. Hopefully this puts an end
to this tom foolery. Now, Republicans, rather than spending so
much time trying to figure how to restrict the voters choice, why not spend more
time on policy that appeals to the average voter, represent rather than
reinforce partisanship, win over peoples hearts and faith through diligent
representation. Try earning votes rather than preventing those who you
don't represent from having a voice.Glad this is done.
There's a reason why the Utah Republican Party is broke. They can't
manage their finances and continue to waste money on court battles trying to
undermine the voters decisions. But, they still get elected to govern our State.