She has Alzheimer's. He has a girlfriend. Is he committing adultery?

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  • Joel Wright Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 22, 2019 10:11 a.m.

    I am uncomfortable with the headline of this article. The answer is clear - yes, you are committing adultery if you are having a relationship while you are legally married to someone else.

    First, the most basic marriage vow says you will love your spouse in "sickness or in health". You show your love by loving when it is hard. It isn't real love if it is always easy. As Jesus said, "If you love those who love you, what reward will you get?" (Matthew 5:46)

    Second, let's take the example of President Eyring. His spouse is about 10 years younger than him, but she started slipping into Alzheimer's about 6 years ago. She never appears in public with him. He said in a recent conference talk that on good days when he visits her she might be able to sing a couple of primary songs with her. And yet, he loves her. That is true love folks.

    Finally, Google "Elder Scott Enduring Love" and watch short video made 5 years ago showing an older man taking care of his wife who is barely alive.

    Last, think of the example you give to your children when you love and cherish until the end.

  • EscherEnigma Ridgecrest, CA
    Feb. 19, 2019 10:01 a.m.

    @Nathan Andelin
    "Since people make laws that define both marriage and adultery, wouldn't that make it valid for public input?"
    Off the top of my head, ever adultery law in the US has been ruled unconstitutional and/or unenforceable. So we probably shouldn't have or make laws that define it.

    As far as defining marriage, that's tricky. We do have a great many laws defining rights and responsibilities (debt, ownership of assets, power to make medical decisions, presumption of paternity, etc.), most attempts to directly "define" marriage have been both ill-suited and ill-fated (miscegenation laws, SSM bans, cohabitation laws, etc.)

    And there have been no successful attempts, to the best of my knowledge, to define what vows a couple must pledge themselves to in a marriage. Including, notably, vows of fidelity and not having a piece on the side.

    So simply put, in-so-far as it's appropriate for the government to be "defining" marriage, that definition should be limited to legal rights and responsibilities. Since there is no legal obligation concerning fidelity/adultery, the legal definition of marriage should not concern it either. And it doesn't.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 18, 2019 6:13 p.m.

    I've specifically told my spouse that if I ever have Alzheimer's and it has progressed to the point that I no longer recognize family members and can't function mentally, it's fine to find another partner but still provide for my care. I want my spouse to be happy, not miserably chained to a wreck of my former self.

    Many of you feel constrained by Biblical and/or Book of Mormon dictates, and that's great, but for those of us who are not religious or who don't believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, it makes more sense to examine these ethical issues from a more analytical point of view. To my mind, if a couple reaches an ethical and kind understanding that works for them in an extremely difficult situation, it's presumptuous for others to judge them as sinners.

  • JSB , 00
    Feb. 18, 2019 5:16 p.m.

    @ P Bundy -
    "Someone seeking simple companionship, someone to talk to, or to have dinner with is not adultery." Technically, you are right. However, a person is wise to avoid the very appearance of evil.

  • 3grandslams Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 18, 2019 9:18 a.m.

    Your reference to Section 101 is mis-leading. It was a church article introduced by WW Phelps on marriage. It was accepted by the general body of the church and placed in the 1835 edition. It was never considered scripture. This is the same context as the lectures on faith. The history is more intricate than this space allows but all the information is availiable to a researcher with integrity.

  • mr ed Hermiston, OR
    Feb. 18, 2019 8:27 a.m.

    The bible is clear about commitments both legal and marital .

  • Stephen H Russell Ogden, UT
    Feb. 17, 2019 11:59 p.m.

    This article is ridiculous.
    1. Your misleading, attention-grabbing title implies that non-intimate dating with other than one's demented spouse is adultery. Nonsense.
    2. The solution is straightforward and I've seen it done more than once. With public announcement of intention, divorce the spouse with Alzheimers for technical/legal reasons while continuing to give that loved one undiminished full and loving support. Marry a new found friend who accepts and can love your demented ex-spouse. I know of a very recent case in Mesa, AZ wherein a recently released LDS Stake President divorced his wife Marnie (who continues to receive loving care in his home with the assistance of hospice) and married a widow in his stake who lovingly shares in the care of Marnie--and loves her dearly. This arrangement brings joy and peace on earth and in heaven.

  • VigilanteCaregiver Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 17, 2019 11:56 p.m.

    My wife of 19 years and sweetheart of many years before that has multiple disabilities - including early onset dementia. Yes, her condition does cause difficulties in our marriage, I have my problems that also brings difficulties to the marriage, and so do the kids - and that's that whole point of marriage. Struggle is not a dirty word; nor is it a sin to face hardships. She used to ask me when her faculties were more intact if I would had still married her if I knew this was the outcome. I said yes, of course; but I would had planned things better - especially finances.

    There is no discussion by reasonable people when it comes to a disabled spouse and cheating on them. The marital commitments made include bearing these burdens. Folks must grow up and carry their ailing spouse and then kneel before their God who will be very happy with them!

  • ppoe , 00
    Feb. 17, 2019 11:02 p.m.

    yes, yes and yes. adultery is adultery no matter what excuse you call it.

  • Miss Piggie Springville, UT
    Feb. 15, 2019 1:44 p.m.

    @CMTM: "It was removed in 1876, when section 132 was placed in the new edition."

    Wait a minute... I though God was the same yesterday, today, and forever. Maybe not.

  • Angelsings Glendale, AZ
    Feb. 15, 2019 8:57 a.m.

    No matter how it is spun, rationalized, justified, adultery is adultery. As bad as it might sound, it would be preferable to get a divorce than commit adultery under any circumstance not just Alzheimer's.

  • I have my opinion Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 15, 2019 7:16 a.m.

    It's sad that in today's day and age, the commitment of "in sickness and in health" is trumped by the selfish thought "I'm not getting any so I will justify stepping out." Truly sad...

  • Justinstitches American Fork, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 10:18 p.m.

    I know that caregiving is tremendously difficult. Been there done that. I also understand the need to have “adult” conversations and friendships, and how lonely it can be. Ultimately, how a spouse handles that is between them and God.

    However, having a relationship with someone not your spouse is still adultery in my book, though an understandable form of it. I firmly belief that the wedding vows and wedding contract is just that. Just because it gets difficult doesn’t mean you bail out. You can continue with same sex friendships to have that adult conversation. You can do volunteer work. (One thing that’s a must is to have breaks when you’re a caregiver.) But honoring your vows by honoring your spouse speaks to character.

  • WVUfan Springboro, OH
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:21 p.m.

    My Mother has Alz & I’ve been her fulll time caregiver since 2013. There are days I don’t speak to another person, even though I have sisters who both live about 30 minutes away. I live for days that I phone rings and it is not a sales call so I can have an adult conversation with someone.

    Until you are in the shoes of a caregiver don’t judge as you don’t know the situation & what they are going through. There are studies on caregivers & depression. Insomnia is also a problem for many caregivers die before the patient.

    Many caregivers tell of friends & family forgetting about the patient & them like they have already died. If you know of a caregiver give them a call, volunteer to sit with the patient so the caregiver can run errands or just have as I say it sanity time. Give the caregiver a break as they usually don’t have one.

    As a caregiver I hope & pray that all of you who are judging these caregivers never have to be a caregiver, as it is the hardest job someone can have. If you do have a family member with Alz and want to know your chances check your APOE gene.

  • MelantheKym Orem, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:05 p.m.

    I probably wouldn't seek another romantic relationship in that situation, but I am not going to judge him. This is between him, God, and *maybe* any children they have. Loneliness is a very powerful thing.

  • peabody Steamboat Springs, CO
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:00 p.m.

    'till death do us part.

  • Lppro Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 4:45 p.m.

    I don't understand why people feel like they should be able to stick their noses into this guys business. This decision is his alone to make and no one's business.

  • Nathan Andelin West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 4:28 p.m.

    "This should not be a public debate."

    Since people make laws that define both marriage and adultery, wouldn't that make it valid for public input?

    What if the legislature were to entertain a bill that specified "A married person commits adultery when he voluntarily has sexual intercourse with a person other than his willing and mentally competent spouse."

  • dski HERRIMAN, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 3:17 p.m.

    A dicey but realistic topic due to prevalence of this disease, which indiscriminately inflict adults of all ages, regardless of gender. Man is that he have joy, says one scripture. On the other hand, thou shalt not commit adultery says another. How do we balance this? How does a forty something year old spouse deal with loneliness when his/her partner no longer recognizes the solemnized partnership due to Alzheimer's? This will be between the person and his/her Maker.
    Men were not created equal. Women are as well not created equally. Some have more drive than others. Some are happy for just being there. So, I will leave the topic to be answered by the person who is facing the music. My part, I will try my best to be nonjudgmental. Until I walk in those shoes, I have no right to throw stones at those who walk on those grounds.

  • JD Las Vegas, NV
    Feb. 14, 2019 2:32 p.m.

    This almost exact scenario is a major story line right now on ABC's General Hospital. While I know it is just a silly soap opera, they have done an excellent job shedding light on Alzheimer's and some of the issues that can occur. Mike Corintho's has fallen in love with a female character that is in the same care center. The female is married to another man but she does not recognize him anymore and only wants to be with Mike, and they both want to get married. Behind the scenes the two families have been all over the map with emotions.

  • The-Antidote Highland, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 2:21 p.m.

    Hall-Pass!!!

  • water rocket , 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 2:06 p.m.

    This is a no brainer. Of course he is committing adultery. No matter how you try to justify it, it is still adultery. This reminds me of a story about Abraham Lincoln when he was running for president. In a debate with his opponent, he asked the question: how many legs does a cow have? To which his opponent responded that a cow has four legs. Lincoln then asked that if you called the tail a leg, then how many legs would the cow have. His opponent said "five". "That is where you are wrong", Lincoln said. "No matter what you call the tail, it is still a tail and not a leg".

  • water rocket , 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 2:06 p.m.

    This is a no brainer. Of course he is committing adultery. No matter how you try to justify it, it is still adultery. This reminds me of a story about Abraham Lincoln when he was running for president. In a debate with his opponent, he asked the question: how many legs does a cow have? To which his opponent responded that a cow has four legs. Lincoln then asked that if you called the tail a leg, then how many legs would the cow have. His opponent said "five". "That is where you are wrong", Lincoln said. "No matter what you call the tail, it is still a tail and not a leg".

  • CMTM , 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 2:00 p.m.

    Miss Piggie. “There shouldn't be a problem with multiple wives, girl friends, so long as they all are in agreement.”
    D&C 101: 4,”Inasmuch as this Church of Christ(JS) has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband”, also (H of C, vol. 2, pg. 247 August 1835.)

    This scripture remained in the LDS canon until 1876,The general body of the church were informed about polygamy in 1852, at which time many practiced it because leaders like Brigham professed the necessity of it for exaltation. Since ( July 1843), contradicted 101:4, It was removed in 1876, when section 132 was placed in the new edition.

  • Evergreen2 Springville, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 2:00 p.m.

    Simple solution. Get a divorce, but retain power of attorney and legal primary care responsibilities for your Alzheimer dependent.

  • TheRealDJT Sandy, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 1:48 p.m.

    She has the flu. He has a girlfriend. Is he committing adultery?

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Feb. 14, 2019 1:29 p.m.

    McQuilkin said the only biblical justification for divorce is adultery or abandonment. “If a spouse is ill, they have not abandoned you. They have become ill,” she said.

    And yet, doesn't Alzheimer's result in abandonment? Not physically, but certainly emotionally, spiritually and intellectually.

    Choosing to care for your ailing spouse is a huge commitment and you should be able to make whatever choices help you successfully care for your spouse. People should be able to make their own choices as long as they don't harm others. If the caregiver doesn't feel guilty, why should others judge? All I'm reading about are choices that would make you a better caregiver.

  • WeThePeople Sandy, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 1:23 p.m.

    Marriage is between one man and one woman, until death do them part!

    Our prophets have told us this, down through the ages. They set an example of moral fortitude that we would do well to follow today.

  • Broken Arrow Draper, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 12:54 p.m.

    In cases like this I think it's helpful to consider, "What would Trump do?" Especially since so many hold him in such high esteem. Who better to look to as an example?

    He's married to a beautiful supermodel and still can't stop himself from having affairs (allegedly) with porn stars and playboy models. The only cost is the financial burden of paying them to be quiet.

    If we follow his example, the answer to the question is simple. There is no conundrum here.

  • Lilly Munster , 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 12:47 p.m.

    How is this anyone's business? Do Jews, Presbyterians, Muslims, Atheists, Catholics or Lutherans get to criticize or condemn anyone else, in a public forum, based on their religious beliefs? No. Religions are free to hold and support their OWN doctrines. Just don't weaponize them. Reserve your beliefs to yourself, or you will find others using their religious beliefs to condemn you. Speculating on the behavior of others opens the door to having your beliefs and behaviors scrutinized......in public.

  • MC Squared Plano, TX
    Feb. 14, 2019 12:34 p.m.

    It's very simple: He's married and committing adultery.

  • sweepitup slc, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 12:18 p.m.

    A care giver if needed is there to meet her needs, keep her healthy and safe. I would want her comfortable and I would be happy she is receiving the added care she needs that I might not be able to administer to her. The care giver is for her, not me. I would want her safe and those around her safe. I would be happy in the situation by first knowing that my wife is in an innocent mindset, hopefully w/o pain. No matter how I view her situation, I hope she's happy. She is still my best friend and I want the best for her. I would make time with my kids and grandkids and once in a while have them take me fishing summer and winter.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 12:08 p.m.

    "Nobody is in a position to judge."

    True.
    But we can review the definition of "adultery", review what every significant religious text and religious leader says, and distnguish valid logic from "rationalizations".

  • NeifyT Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 11:58 a.m.

    @windsor - "Marriage presupposes total allegiance and total fidelity. Each spouse takes the partner with the understanding that he or she gives totally to the spouse all the heart, strength, loyalty, honor, and affection, with all dignity. Any divergence is sin; any sharing of the heart is transgression."

    You have taken that quote completely out of context. Without the context, just those words alone would be foolhardy. Under that statement, loving one's children, and providing for them and giving them your heart and any of your strength, loyalty, honor and affection would be a "transgression." And yet we are commanded to do that very thing.

    In fact, even giving your might, mind, and strength to the Lord would be infidelity (without the context of the speech).

    In fact what you are proposing would be saying that you can either keep the First Great Commandment or the Second Great Commandment but not both at the same time. (Love the Lord, and love they neighbor).

    In truth, Charity (Christlike love) is the very purpose of this life; that we "love" every single person even our enemies.

    Any divergence from Eros (erotic love) with a spouse; that is the context of the quote.

  • NeifyT Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 11:48 a.m.

    The headline is clickbait for sure.

    The question in the headline suggests that there is even a question of adultery. By definition; if the man is NOT having intimate relationship with someone other than his spouse... that is not adultery.

    If the headline had asked if he was "cheating" on his wife; in today's vernacular; some consider becoming emotionally attached to another as "cheating." But, it is still not adultery.

    If he did have intimate relationship; then it would be adultery no two ways about it.

    Still, it is a whole other argument whether or not to consider it even "cheating" given the circumstances.

    My own views; so long as he is faithful to the care of his wife (which is extremely hard with dementia); and remains chaste... then finding company with another is no different than having other friends. When two persons get married it doesn't mean that the only friends that can ever have is each other or those of the same gender. Friendship, is not the same as sexual relationship; and no, having friend is not cheating on the spouse.

  • scanner Tooele, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 11:47 a.m.

    Are they still married?

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 11:31 a.m.

    Until you walk a mile in their shoes...

  • MTR Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 11:22 a.m.

    If he is not married to his girlfriend and is having sex, then yes, he is committing adultery.

  • Miss Piggie Springville, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 11:19 a.m.

    @CMTM:
    "Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness(D&C 132:37)?"

    I guess some people can do it and get praised for it. But, why did Abraham kick his girl friend and her son, Ishmael, outta town?

    "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,..”(I Tim 3:2)."

    But, I guess a prophet (J.S.) can do it and it's OK.

    There shouldn't be a problem with multiple wives, girl friends, so long as they all are in agreement.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 11:01 a.m.

    I don’t think so.

  • J. Smith Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 11:00 a.m.

    Just when you think you have heard it all. Some old gramps needs a girlfriend because his wife of 50 plus years is transitioning into Alzheimer's. He either didn't really care for her in the first place or he is consumed by his own self interest and sexual drive. Personally I find this outright disgusting.

  • UtahBruin Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 10:41 a.m.

    This is a question why? How? What? Not quite sure it is even debatable.

    To each their own to make their own decisions. However I would say quite possibly to the majority this would be considered wrong.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 10:45 a.m.

    Yorkshire . "So grateful for all the people I know who suck it up and who believe in eternal marriage--"The eternal doctrine, A man may be sealed to multiple wives, in the Celestial Kingdom

  • dordrecht Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 10:31 a.m.

    These are very personal decisions, and nobody is in a position to judge. Only God makes that kind of judgement. I'm happy I was born in a country that advocated Live and let Live. And as a reminder, Jesus said, The letter of the law killeth, but the spirit giveth life. Jesus was right!

  • EscherEnigma Ridgecrest, CA
    Feb. 14, 2019 10:36 a.m.

    Instead of judging others, just talk it over with your spouse and see how what the two of you are fine with in those situations.

    Me and my husband? Vegetable, brain-dead, etc? Pull the plug. Dementia, Alzheimers, etc.? Get a boyfriend if that's what you need. There's no reason for him to suffer miserable and alone for years just 'cause my brain goes stupid.

    As for the more general question of if the health spouse getting a boyfriend/girlfriend while their spouse has dementia/Alzheimers... that 100% depends on what they agreed on together. If that couple said "yeah, go have fun if I'm basically gone but still breathing", it's not adultery. If they said "no, remain celibate until I'm dead," it's adultery. And since most folks don't share that kind of private conversation with others, you shouldn't be second-guessing which it is.

  • windsor Logan, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 10:23 a.m.

    Many comments here that if there is not sex then nothing is wrong with this.

    If these people are LDS, they must have conveniently forgotten this by a Prophet:

    "Marriage presupposes total allegiance and total fidelity. Each spouse takes the partner with the understanding that he or she gives totally to the spouse all the heart, strength, loyalty, honor, and affection, with all dignity. Any divergence is sin; any sharing of the heart is transgression."

    If you are sharing your heart and creating 'intimacy' of feelings, it is still cheating on your wife.

  • Nathan Andelin West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 10:16 a.m.

    This question reminds me of a similar one that I asked my son in law, who was a brilliant student in a graduate program. His reply humored me. He said "that's a topic for High Priest's Quorum - I'm only an Elder."

  • Yorkshire Logan, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 9:47 a.m.

    SO grateful my father didn't cheat on my mother when she had Alzheimer's.....

    Just can not imagine such a thing of the man in this article , if there was any real love or commitment ever between them.

    So grateful my brother didn't cheat on his wife when she was in a mental institution getting over a serious condition.

    So grateful my other brother didn't cheat on his wive when she was out of the country for a very extended period and it wasn't possible for either of them to visit each other.

    So grateful for all the people I know who suck it up and who believe in eternal marriage--- or who are not LDS-- who, if they are married believe in the vows they took of 'in sickness and in health'.
    And for the 3 couples I know who are not married but have children together and who have committed their lives to each other and who stay faithful to each other.

    I'm very sad for the couple in my Ward who had their loving marriage shattered by his inability to remain celibate and faithful to her when working in another country for long periods. Their children and their love couldn't overcome that selfishness and infidelity.

  • RockOn1224 Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 9:24 a.m.

    Ask a question, you get an answer, but...welcome to complexity. Nice discussion, but, if you're married and you have sex with another person, that is the definition of adultery.

    Now, reality. Can I say you are "sinning?" No. Not my place ever. That's a deity parameter and He's the one to answer that question.

    I will make one judgement: I have known people whose spouse went into a coma (and other total debilitations) and the healthy spouse chose to put aside their own goals and focus totally on the sick person. I knew a woman in England whose husband was seriously injured in a car wreck on their honeymoon. He could barely speak and move much, but she stayed by his side. I got to know her when they'd been married for 30 years. Wow. Amazing. I'd like to think I would have that dedication. Total admiration.

    For those who go another path, that's between them, their spouse and God. Not me. They're still my friends.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 9:27 a.m.

    It's not wrong in a situation where your spouse is mentally debilitated, for the surviving spouse to have a friend or friends of the opposite sex without intimacy. If they do become intimate then it would be their own business.

  • Flipphone , 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 9:24 a.m.

    This should not be a public debate.

  • P Bundy Albuquerque, NM
    Feb. 14, 2019 9:15 a.m.

    Adultery is defined as voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not his or her spouse.

    Someone seeking simple companionship, someone to talk to, or to have dinner with is not adultery. If they are initmate with someone else, thn they've crossed the line

  • Moag Farmington, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 9:07 a.m.

    I believe each of us is given a “cross“ to bear in this life. That cross consists of any number of problems and difficulties, including difficulties that are caused by a spouse’s illness. We will be judged on how we bear those crosses. Christ spoke plainly when he said: “And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27). We all need to bear our crosses, regardless of the pain and personal sacrifice it takes to do so.
    As many have already said, adultery is adultery! In my generation, marriage was expected to be “for better and for worse“ and “in sickness and in health.“ How I wish we would honor those honorable and heroic souls who care for incapacitated spouses rather than trying to justify a lack of care and fidelity in the name of ease, comfort or personal freedom.

  • Expo West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 9:00 a.m.

    Sounds like Edward Fairfax Rochester, Bertha Antoinetta Conway Mason, and Jane Eyre. Was Rochester committing adultery by wooing Jane when he was already married to a demented woman in the attic? You decide, dear reader.

  • mominthetrenches South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:48 a.m.

    Good article that gives us a heads up on another moral dilemma that will be coming our way, as a society. My MIL had a traumatic brain injury when my husband was 4, that left her with dementia, schizophrenia & violent, at age 35. She was insitutionalized. His father dated while still married, divorced and re-married. My husband watched his best friends father lovingly care for his wife, who was wheelchair bound wirh MS, for decades. Its not for us to judge, but my hubs & I, personally, have much more admiration for those who take on the marriage vows to care for each other in sickness and in health. Once we married, we have been caregivers to my MIL. It has helped my husband heal from a turbulent childhood. We still care for her, 24 years later. We have had those discussions when we were engaged, and my husband lived it, as a child. It blew his family apart when his dad moved on. Neither of us can fathom dating another person if one of us were ill. It is a tough moral issue. My own feeling & experience is very personal-I cant judge another because every situation is different, but in the end, its your spouse.

  • cl_rand North Salt Lake, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:46 a.m.

    Lots of tortured comments here but AggieFan74 takes the cake by proclaiming, "My personal credo in life is........"a person can do whatever floats his or her boat" and then passing judgement with every word after that.

  • Ron Swanson Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:29 a.m.

    The rest of us around people like this man are in a prime position to offer him the sociality and support he needs as he cares for his wife, he should not be left alone to manage these things and still cope and remain healthy himself. He should not need to create seemingly inappropriate relationships in order to maintain his own health.

  • CMTM , 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:30 a.m.

    RE: Hyrum, Honorable people marry for better or worse, some until death do you part, others for eternity. Adultery is adultery no matter how you try to justify it. True, E.g….

    Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness(D&C 132:37)?

    VS … Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.(Gal 3:6)

    -A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,..”(I Tim 3:2).,The Apostles did not maintain any O.T. pattern of polygamy and they and the early church condemned it.

  • Frank Walters Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:30 a.m.

    I certainly am not in the position to condemn anyone. However, I know what my actions would be in this situation. And most importantly God knows the right from the wrong. We'd be best to honestly ask ourselves if we're in the right and then present our decision to God, He'll guide us appropriately.

  • DickG Mesa, AZ
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:12 a.m.

    Love the comments by those who say they have never been in that situation. If you haven't, why comment. If you read the article, you would know that the man in Park City does not have an intimate relationship with this woman. Others in the article have. That point should have been made clearer by the author. That is an extraordinary difference. I leave judgement to others.

  • Golden Rules Okay, OK
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:08 a.m.

    --Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. -Jesus Christ
    --This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. – Mahabharata 5:1517 (Hinduism)
    --Not one of you truly believes until you wish for others what you wish for yourself. – The Prophet Muhammad, Hadith
    --What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. This is the whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. – Hillel, Talmud, Shabbath 31a
    --Treat not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful. – The Buddha, Udana-Varga 5.18

  • Elsleuith Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:04 a.m.

    Most stuff in this life doesn't matter one way or the other. But how we treat out spouse will, in large part, determine where and with whom we will spend eternity. There are a lot of "what ifs" but I don't think any of them count for anything. President Hinkley said it best, “In other words, as we have frequently said, there should be total chastity of men and women before marriage and total fidelity in marriage.”

  • JkeithC Richland, WA
    Feb. 14, 2019 8:04 a.m.

    Two answers. First, yes.
    Second, They who is without sin, let them first cast a stone.
    Obvious answers. Why ask?

  • tsobserver Mapleton, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 7:59 a.m.

    Only the Lord is qualified to judge this man. Watching my own father slip away into the fog of oblivion has made me acutely aware of how heavy the burden is that has been placed on my mother. Lonely and discouraged, any support a caregiver can find becomes understandable. Remember that the judgment with which you judge this man will be the judgment with which you will be judged.

  • Aggielove Caldwell, ID
    Feb. 14, 2019 7:51 a.m.

    You all personally go through having a partner with this horrible disease and then you can answer the question.

    It’s a lonely lonely time for the spouse.

  • Golden Rules Okay, OK
    Feb. 14, 2019 7:43 a.m.

    People can find a reason to act selfishly or unselfishly. Our actions define who we are, not our reasons.

  • ERB Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 7:30 a.m.

    Yes, it would be adultery. Many are in marriages that are basically loveless, and they barely speak. It’s barely a marriage, but it would still be adultery in that case, too.

  • bugs2 Cincinnati, OH
    Feb. 14, 2019 7:27 a.m.

    If you have been to the temple,it adds a whole new dimention...your oath to her and Father, and who you are as a person.

  • ji_ Ketchikan, AK
    Feb. 14, 2019 7:19 a.m.

    The article said there was no physical intimacy (sexual congress) between Mr. Freer and his dinner companion. Therefore, there was no adultery.

    I understand adultery is a class B misdemeanor in Utah. So even if there was intimacy, well, with consenting adults and no witnesses, there cannot be an indictment or conviction.

    If Mr. Freer is LDS, well, church discipline for adultery requires two witnesses, both church members (see D&C 42:80), so with no confession and no witnesses, there cannot be an indictment or conviction.

    So the question of whether Mr. Freer is committing adultery by having a dinner companion during his wife's illness is really a foolish and wholly invalid question.

    So, what difference does it make to anyone else?

  • J. Smith Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 7:14 a.m.

    Wow hard to wrap my head around that one. I would think that true love would circumvent gallivanting with another woman util your wife expires from this awful disease. Love, respect, decorum and faithfulness seem far more important than messing around............

  • PLM Kaysville, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:56 a.m.

    There’s no discussion of the cruelty that accompanies adultery. Adulterers are notorious for mistreating (and sometimes murdering their spouses.) The perpetrators here that demand the right to engage in adulterous relationships sound like they have entitlement mentalities. Yes we need fulfilling relationships but God has set the standard that anything outside of emotional and physical fidelity is a sin and must be avoided no matter what the current cultural clatter condones. Fuel your passions in more appropriate ways, the arts, service, philanthropy; there are myriads of ways to have positive relationships without breaking covenants.

  • kolob1 Sandy, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:54 a.m.

    The article poses the question: Is it "adultery " "to enter a new relationship while still married."?
    Absolutely not if there is no sexual contact. Is is betrayal for the "companionship" ? Absolutely not. To make the disease, alzheimers, the scapegoat is to open up all relationships to any life altering event as a excuse to have another sexual relationship . If the medical world determines that a person is completely and unalterably demented then I believe that the legislature and the courts would be better placed to enact and enforce "living but dead " legislation which would provide comfort and care for the demented partner but would enable the healthy partner the ability to remarry. Seems simple but it is not simple.

  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:53 a.m.

    3: The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

    4: And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

    5: And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

    6: Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

    7: They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

    8: He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

    9: And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Matthew 19:3-9

    Honorable people marry for better or worse, some until death do you part, others for eternity. Adultery is adultery no matter how you try to justify it.

  • Jim Mesa, AZ
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:47 a.m.

    It would be easy to judge this man for his actions, but we don't know the full facts. I think of President Henry B Eyring, whose wife is in a similar position and yet I don't see a new girlfriend on his arm. It is an interesting article for Valentines Day.

  • 3grandslams Eagle Mountain, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:30 a.m.

    The idea of complete fidelity is lost these days. This should not be a debate. The real discussion should be about how far we’ve sunk with our social values and proprieties that we’re talking about it.

  • BobF2012 kitchener, 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 6:32 a.m.

    I won't condemn anyone's decision, having not walked in their shoes, but I found this quotation the most important in the article: "Is our personal happiness the goal of life? I don't think that is." Such things as duty, honor,and keeping sacred promises will, I believe, bring us greater happiness in the long run.
    Again, this is what I believe, but I'm not saying everyone should live this way, and I would never criticize someone who chooses a different path.

  • PhoenixAZ phoenix, AZ
    Feb. 14, 2019 5:36 a.m.

    Yes.

  • AggieFan74 Ogden, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 5:22 a.m.

    My personal credo in life is........"a person can do whatever floats his or her boat" as long as it doesn't physically or emotionally harm others. Having a mistress on the side while your wife is suffering from a hideous brain disease is completely unacceptable and says volumes about the individual having the affair. I am not an expert in mental-cognitive disorders, but I do know how devastating it is on the afflicted individual and his or her family. That said, the afflicted individual does have flashes of recollection and awareness of his or her surroundings. I can't imagine the emotional harm and damage that would result if the afflicted person somehow become aware that his or her spouse was having an affair and did it out in the open. That is the ultimate show of disrespect for a person that should be loved and cherished while on this earth! Having an affair while married is adultery regardless of the physical or mental condition of one's spouse....plain and simple and shows the complete lack of character and moral compass of the adulterer. It's unbelievable to me that this issue is even debatable.

  • Bugsb , 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 5:15 a.m.

    As God’s children we are under covenant not to embrace the ways of the great and spacious building.

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    Feb. 14, 2019 4:14 a.m.

    "Critics have said that arrangement amounts to having an affair in his wife's presence."

    The critics are absolutely right. "In sickness and in health." That means no matter what, you stay faithful. Life is full of trials and you meet them head on. If you include God in the mix, you can handle anything.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 3:29 a.m.

    I figure God died only once for us. once, it a sin to look a beautiful woman an lust. How many times do I need to be forgiven. Once. God knows my faults, He knows me better than I know myself. Me, I don't know, my girl an i have more years together by twice what when we were not together, don't like the thought of not being . What a sad topic to think about.

  • Grammy3 Riverton, UT
    Feb. 14, 2019 1:35 a.m.

    First off I do not want to judge anyone for what they do. I was taught that by very loving parents as well as what I believe in my heart is wrong. Each situation is different. Years ago my next door neighbor's mother had Alzheimer's at a young age. She was only in her mid 50's when she was diagnosed with that horrible disease. When she got so bad after a few years they put her into a lock down facility. She did not even remember her husband who was her High School sweetheart. After about a year her husband got a divorce from her. Then went on with his life. He found a woman who became his second wife but he would visit his sweetheart almost everyday even though she did not remember who she was. To me this was such a sweet story of true love. In this crazy world of ours today this is why we should always love those around us no matter what. I am a very religious woman and would never do anything like this if my husband was not able to remember who I was. But this is who I am and how I live my life. But I would never fault a person who felt differently and was just lonely and wanted some company.

  • Scott1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2019 11:22 p.m.

    Softball question.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 13, 2019 11:12 p.m.

    Re RiDal

    I'm curious.

    Assuming you still want companionship of the opposite sex, how many years would you be willing to put yourself on ice in such a situation.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Feb. 13, 2019 10:50 p.m.

    Prior generations recognized that sins needed to be resisted in spite of "temptations" and crimes were committed because of "motives"

    Now, every sin has an "justification" and every crime has an "excuse".

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 13, 2019 10:27 p.m.

    A hundred years ago this would be a good debate.
    However, today far fewer people bother to marry, fewer remain married, and all manner of relationships are legally acceptable, and therefore endorsed or at least tolerated by the secular state. Right and wrong is no longer a binary decision based on religious training and societal norms.

    This is a matter for those involved to decide. It is also an area where people not in those situations may say one thing now, but decide differently if they fell into that situation.

    We saw a similar situation with the late County Recorder. People who cared about him did what they could for him when he was incapable of fully caring for himself. The office part of that was a mess, but on the personal level it was different, even though one could question the motivation.

    May God bless and comfort all who find themselves in such a situation, regardless of their choices.