Did 51% of all Utahans vote for the Medicaid expansion? No.Do we
now get to force doctors to see Medicaid patients?
People have to remember in this country we elect legislators to represent us. If
we don't like what they did then vote them out but that is how the process
works. Utah is in a dangerous position and the lawmakers apparently know that.
If 'we the people' are able to vote in our own benefits and get away
with it ... it's a nail in the coffin of democracy. It would be like what
Congress can do now.
@ just one voice - Highland, UT"And a majority of Utah voters DID NOT
vote for Prop 3. "Then why are we having this disussion?
Some view this vote as a stab in the back of the voters in Utah. I see this vote
as the Legislators stabbing themselvs in their back(s). When they bleed out the
voters will be the real winners.
I see two things that should be done now, not just one, but both. 1) Vote the
Rascals out in the next election. 2) Put another initiative on the ballot for
full medicaid expansion.
@just one voiceI worked in ER’s for several years and I can tell you
that is simply not accurate, but for the sake of argument let’s assume it
was, it would still be more the fiscally resonsable thing to do to make it
easier for people with Medicaid to get appointments with primary care doctors by
making it easier for doctors to get properly paid rather then throw up our hands
and walk away. I am a professional provider and work everyday with people that
have private insurance and Medicaid. We don’t turn anyone away because of
insurance however getting Medicaid to pay cost a lot of extra man hours due to
the needless redtap because of people that are so afraid that someone else is
going to get something they don’t.
Tostoy: a recent comment on another thread was by a doctor with knowledge of
the ER situation. He said people on Medicaid continue to use the ER at higher
rates than those on insurance plans because it's easier than making an
appointment and waiting.
At times I seem to have a problem getting my views posted.So here
are other people’s views which I agree with“Am I my
brothers keeper?”“The parable of the Good
Samaritan”“If you don’t want your tax dollars to
help the poor, then stop sayingYou want a country based on Christian
values. Because you don’t”Jimmy CarterAmen
@just one voice Since you appear to believe we are not already paying for
uninsured people’s medical care perhaps you would not mind actually
responding to my Feb. 8, 2019 5:17 p.m post no one else that apposes medical
expansion seems to want to answer those questions. “a majority
of Utah voters DID NOT vote for Prop 3. Only a slight majority of those who
actually voted approved it.” given our last presidential election do you
really want to pull on that thread?
what is the point of voting? the bills we pass are changed by the
legislature, or overturned by 9 people that were never elected.
No one has mentioned that now "they" want thousands of kids in the
schools who need mental health care to be able to bill Medicaid for that care
through the schools. (Deseret News article) And a majority of Utah voters DID
NOT vote for Prop 3. Only a slight majority of those who actually voted
approved it. And no one is stopping those who want to pay for someone
else's health care from starting a registry of those in need - kind of like
Go Fund Me. Get out YOUR checkbooks!
@eigerjoe"Prop 3 supporters - what current state services you are
willing to reduce in exchange for the fully expanded Medicaid that you are
seeking? "None, because we have a large surplus. We can easily
use a tiny piece of that for the next year or two, in the meantime we can
determine whether the federal government would allow the expanded levels of
support for a smaller expansion and then depending on that determination a
ballot measure can be crafted where one of the options is to keep the full
expansion but increase the sales tax another 0.1% or whatever it would be.
"Nothing is 'FREE' someone has to pay ."And we
have already paid to the tune of hundreds of millions in surplus! Use that money
to actualize the voice of the people!
@christophThe rules of math says it is fiscally illresponsable for us to
be paying for people to get basic healthcare through the ER as we are currently
doing when it will be much cheaper for us to ensure they have access for such
care through much cheaper doctors office visit. The letter writer is correct,
the residence to expansion is not about the math.
Maybe instead of a 225 million dollar tax cut that will undoubtedly benefit the
wealthy the most we could spend the money on education and the Medicaid
Hmm, there is a 1 billion dollars surplus in the coffers but the 15 million it
would cost for medicaid expansion is going to break the bank? Now tell me again
about the laws of math christoph? Are they different in Brigham City?
So much for the will of the people ?
Voters cannot overrule laws of math. People like Putin of Russia and Maduro of
Venezuela have to submit to economics.
Prop 3 supporters - what current state services you are willing to reduce in
exchange for the fully expanded Medicaid that you are seeking? Are you willing
to decrease funding for education, air quality, transportation, public safety,
or environmental causes in order to fund fully expanded medicaid? We can't
have everything. Our legislators have tried to give you most of what you are
seeking without raising taxes or taking money from other services. We (and
they) have to decide what things are most important to us and give up things
that are less important. Tell me what you are willing to sacrifice for fully
DN Subscriber - Cottonwood Heights, UTFeb. 8, 2019 10:47 p.m.It is
obvious that "free stuff" appeals to many Utah voters who do not
understand (or maybe just don't care) that someone has to pay for all that,
and our state has to have a balanced budget, unlike the profligate spenders in
Washington. =====I would much rather see ordinary Utah
citizens who need some help with health care receiving "free stuff" than
seeing various corporations like Energy Solutions which just had a $1.7 million
tax break renewed very quietly in a back room deal in the Utah Capitol. The Tribune reported this : "While Gov. Gary Herbert repeatedly
calls for axing the long list of tax breaks that the state gives to a variety of
industries, the Utah House voted Monday to give a $1.72 million annual fee break
to the EnergySolutions radioactive waste company.That brought protests
from one environmental group and many House Democrats, but GOP supporters said
EnergySolutions needs that help to survive in an industry that is becoming more
competitive."Check out how much money E S has given to GOP
campaigns . . . .
Nothing is "FREE" someone has to pay .
@DN Subscriber"We are on the way to becoming another California, which
is on its way to becoming another Venezuela"I notice that Utah real
estate prices are also rising, at a similar rate to California's. That does
nothing to help the poor either. As the gap widens between the haves and the
have nots, this will continue.
Why is it that in Utah an insurance executive, Jim Dunnigan ,sponsors an
insurance bill and a fishing guide sponsors a fishing bill? Couldn't they
make it less obvious to prevent critics from claiming inside favoritism ?
Answer, this is Utah where even transparency is subject to institutional
obedience and the Legislators don't really care what the public wants.
@dn subscriber You dont think we are already paying for that “free
stuff” at a much higher rate (fiscally illresponsable) already? Maybe you
would like to answer my earlier post?
So where were the religious representatives from the church that claims it only
gets involved when moral issues are at stake? Oh, I forgot, they were on the
house floor voting down the voter approved medicaid expansion for the poorest
among us. Nice!
I for one am willing to pay more in taxes to take care of the medical needs of
my less fortunate brothers and sisters here in Utah.I have been
“Blessed” and I am willing to share my abundance.Just
call me a “Modern Day Good Samaritan” not like the others who pass
by the injured traveler and ignore his plight.I call upon others to
adopt this practice both individually and governmental wise.
Great thread. Complete with blaming the LDS church, Republicans and the
insurance companies but strangely no mention of Trump or the Russians. We just
need to dig a little deeper.
We cannot afford this expansion. When you start crying for more $ for education,
roads, infrastructure, police, and the homeless, remember you blew the bank on
this do gooder cumbaya medical $ disaster.
@ DN Subscriber"We are on the way to becoming another
California, which is on its way to becoming another Venezuela."Are you aware California's GDP makes it the fifth largest economy in the
world?Those are some disparate dots you are attempting to connect;
sort of like saying, "Boeing is on the verge of becoming Bob's
Lawnmower Repair Service."
Re headline:Republicans replace voter approved Medicaid
expansion.What is the point of voting when the Republicans will
simply do what ever they want?
It is obvious that "free stuff" appeals to many Utah voters who do not
understand (or maybe just don't care) that someone has to pay for all that,
and our state has to have a balanced budget, unlike the profligate spenders in
Washington. Bravo to the Representatives who did the homework and
came up with a reasonable solution to implement what can be from the passed
initiative. It is barely affordable now and will become unsustainable as
federal bait money gets reduced and more people figure ways to get on the
program, and as liberals decide that the next increment of people with low
incomes should be added. There is no end to the slippery slope of
dependency.The street theater stunts of the "faith leaders"
are disgusting, and undignified. However, it is right out of the liberal
democrat playbook. It appears that the "free stuff" and
"nanny state" propaganda has been converting a lot of Utahns. We are on
the way to becoming another California, which is on its way to becoming another
Venezuela.Follow the money on this whole Medicaid expansion drive.
There are huge amounts being spent, and we should know who is behind all this
So much for "Democracy"!
I am sad that Prop. 3 failed. I am sad because I feel for anyone who is unable
to obtain medical care because they cannot afford it. It is sad that the
legislature was unable to find the funding needed to enact it.
After reading this article several times and concentrating on the quotes from
several legislators it seems that the will of the people has been denied for
reasons that for me, are very difficult to swallow. It seems that none of the
quotes in this column related to ways in which money might be found to cover
Prop. 3. According to the quotes given in this article, money and money alone
caused the Legislature to rescind the will of the people. How much time and
serious effort went in to searching for ways to fund Prop. 3 ?
Is there a website that lists how our representatives voted? I need to know if I
need to vote against mine. The people of the state spoke. This high-handedness
of these self-important legislators is unconscionable. We need to vote out those
who will not listen to their constituents.I have an 80-year old
mother with severe Alzheimer's who spends more for her necessary memory
care than she gets in SS and Medicare. Yet, the state says she makes too much to
qualify for Medicaid. She is in the hole over $500 every monthShame
on the Utah Legislature.
I'm angry and disappointed with this outcome. I am just not convinced that
our Republican state legislators are right about what it would take to fund
Prop. 3. Cost projections into the future (2025?!) are always difficult and
imprecise, but that is especially the case when it concerns a matter that this
state has no experience with. Other states have experience with
Medicaid expansion, and while I heard a few of these legislators say that
it's been "a nightmare" in other states, none of them show any
knowledge (including my own, whom I approached about this) of a number of
credible studies that show that in states that accepted the full Medicaid
expansion the rate at which healthcare costs increased from year to year
significantly decreased, and so projected costs came under their future
estimates.And the legislature sure seemed to be in a hurry to get
these bills passed. Since the majority of Utah voters supported Prop. 3, I
think the legislature owed the citizens a full accounting of the evidence
supporting their claims, as well as time to deliberate about how to manage the
potential shortfall, before any vote was held.
Can someone explain to me how you could possibly believe it I s costing all of
us less to have those without insurance use the ER for their primary care needs
then to provide them basic health coverage? Spend 5 minutes at a local ER and
you can see how fiscally illresponsable it is to not provide basic health
insurance to those with none.
The legislative supermajority's vote to overturn Proposition 3, and really
to kill ANY Medicaid expansion in Utah (everyone knows that the federal waivers
necessary for this ill-conceived bill are virtually guaranteed NOT to happen),
is absolutely unconscionable!The Utah citizens who are unhappy with
this blatant disregard for the will of the voters who passed Proposition 3, this
shameless display of social/economic Darwinism on the part of the Legislature,
need to keep this fresh in their minds (maybe post a "Remember the Uninsured
Working Poor!" sign where you will see it daily), and we need to persuade
our friends and neighbors about the immorality of this heinous act, and
collectively visit retribution in the voting booth on the Legislators
responsible for it, establishing greater legislative balance and accountability
in the process.
Sonny- You prefer the LDS leadership way of instructing the legislature how to
vote in private to lobbying by citizens?
Counter Intelligence - Salt Lake City, UTFeb. 8, 2019 3:50 p.m.@Utah Girl Chronicles "Someone posted a story online this morning
about a niece who died recently because she could no longer afford her asthma
medication."I don't believe your story because in the USA
there are always emergency options; the hysteria is a little much====Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.
Recently there have been many similar accounts of Americans dying because they
can't afford asthma medication or insulin for diabetes.People
who need those medications and some others have recently been hit by price
increases from manufacturers who have jacked prices up by nearly 900% .Meanwhile, the average pay package of a pharmaceutical chief exec is currently
$66,000 PER DAY. ( You may easily check that by simply Googling Pharmaceutical
executive pay packages. )Why aren't you commenting about that ?
Backroom politics behind closed doors. I just got a strong whiff of the foul
So now we have activist priests, whose churches have a history of truly helping
the poor, railing against the government for not distributing other
people’s money the way they want? Holy eye roll. “Fight
poverty” is right. Medicaid isn’t fighting poverty. It’s
aiding and abetting it. Look, I don’t love the fact that the legislature
is treating a public referendum like a kid with his fingers crossed behind his
back, but making a public spectacle of yourself isn’t doing the people you
shepherd any justice. “When thou prayest, thou shall be not as the
hypocrites are, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.”
wish I could have made sense of the story - had to go to the trib to understand
what the legislation does.essentially it ensures full expansion, so
I don't know why all the liberals are complaining.Imperial7look at Dunnigan's actions all along - he has worked to expand medicaid.
Your attacks on him are groundless.mcclarkthere's the
federal exchange - you can get insurancefrozen70-30 for 100%
of poverty level v 90-10 for 138% of poverty level. not sure which is more
expensive - but then prop 3 is more expensive than the tax increase it included,
and significantly more expensive than no prop 3.501CMthe
majority also voted for amendment 3. can you restore that, please?
@Counter Intelligence"Multiple states voted to codify traditional
marriage - but an un-elected court overturned the "will of the people"
by a measly 5-4 margin"Courts have a duty to strike down
measures that are unconstitutional. Just because they can doesn't mean you
have to like it when they do.Legislatures have a right to override
the "will of the people" (provided they follow whatever rules are in
place for that, like if we were voting on a state constitutional amendment the
process would be rather different). Just because they can doesn't mean I
have to like it when they do.
Hmm.@impartial, fabulous, utah girl@impartialSo what if
Dunningan works in the insurance business. Medicaid doesn't take from the
insurance carriers. At least he would be informed enough to know what is
involved.@ fabulousNot so. The ballot initiative
"sticks" it to people. No debate, no facts from all sides. No expert
witnesses and then debate. This occurs at the legislature. And it does occur.
Any ballot initiative is one sided emotion and is always inferior to
legislation.@Utah girlThe fact that "someone cannot afford
their medication for asthma and dies" story sounds fabricated. It is lacking
in facts. If you are wheezing, etc go to the ER. They have to see you and treat
you. But with ballot initiatives , you want this "straw man" so people
can get emotional and vote.
imsmarterthanyou - Salt Lake City, UTFeb. 8, 2019 1:30 p.m.I can
only hope it reduces rather than raises the tax cost I have to pay to provide
insurance for those "less fortunate" when I can't get insurance for
my family at all.===You just made an excellent argument
in favor of single payer health insurance.Thank you.
Remember this at the election . . .
@ Counter Intelligence'Can somebody from the "I, me,
mine" school of health care cynics
"Well thank you for
@Impartial7 - DRAPER, UTYou are correct. Google Dunnigan Insurance.
This should not be happening. You own your own insurance company and then get
to make laws concerning insurance? This needs to stop.
Multiple states voted to codify traditional marriage - but an un-elected court
overturned the "will of the people" by a measly 5-4 marginSo
now i am supposed to be offended than an elected body modifies a financially
unsound proposition in order to make it fiscally sustainable?@Utah
Girl Chronicles "Someone posted a story online this morning about a
niece who died recently because she could no longer afford her asthma
medication."And somebody posted another story online about
people dying in a failed socialist Venezuela that promised to provide free stuff
for everyone paid for by everyone else; which ended up being nothing provided
for nobody.I don't believe your story because in the USA there
are always emergency options; the hysteria is a little much
I hope the governor has the strength of character to veto SB96 when it comes
before him for his signature. Obviously any legislation has to have adequate
funding to implement it but work on that instead of cutting back on the goal to
provide for health and well being of those validly unable to provide for
themselves, in the most efficient and humane way possible.
Imsmarter---If you cant get insurance for your family you should be all for
this, that is the whole point of expanding medicade.
"Christensen's bill would start coverage April 1, as would Proposition
3, but at a more expensive 70 percent to 30 percent federal to state funding
match rather than the 90-10 split offered for full expansion."It
takes a special kind of incompetence to want to spend more for less.
I don't have a dog in this hunt. However, if I did I would be madder than
a wet hen.Apparently the majority party in Utah listens only to its
own echo chamber, and cares not one whit about the will of the voters. In a
usual environment, this would cause turnover in the state legislature come next
election. Yet, I doubt that is going to happen. And those elected certainly
Someone posted a story online this morning about a niece who died recently
because she could no longer afford her asthma medication.Can sombody
from the "I, me, mine" school of health care cynics tell me how that
story, or this ill--thought-out legislation, is a form of "American
The people voted on this already. That should have been enough. Good thing the
lawmakers all know better than the rest of us...
Glad we have a balanced budget requirement, our taxes here are way too high here
though. Glad to see some wisdom and common sense on this one regardless of
whining, crying and kneeling in the capital rotunda. I want people to pay my way
too, but I have to get up every day, put my pants on and go to work. Tired of
all the sniveling all the time.
@Watcher1Yes we get it, It's more important that American pay
the most for a third rate healthcare system so that CEO's can bank millions
by denying benefits to the sick instead of helping them.We get it
America is only for the wealthy, see tax breaks by the GOP, that's all they
ever accomplish, beside starting wars and recessions.I'm lucky
enough to be healthy, and have not used my insurance more then once for an
instacare visit to put my arm back into socket. I've paid nearly $50,000 in
deductibles, I would rather my excess go to help the sick and poor then a bonus
for a hack making quota in denying benefits.
This is another vulgar real-life example of Republicans sticking it to the
people they allegedly represent.
I voted no on all the propositions, they just open the doors to this kind of
change. None of us should be surprised at the mess we voted for...
Socialism and a pure democracy (as opposed to a constitutional republic) have a
lot in common . . . kinda like two wolves and a sheep on an island voting on
what to have for dinner. We will never have a shortage of people working hard
to figure out ways to have others provide for them, or those they like. If you
want to speed up the process, just dangle out a little Federal subsidy out there
(even if it's temporary), making it sound like it's ever so
affordable--even though we're nearly $22,000,000,000,000 worse than broke
at the Federal level with just short-term, immediate liabilities. Just amazing
how charitable we are with other people's money.
I can only hope it reduces rather than raises the tax cost I have to pay to
provide insurance for those "less fortunate" when I can't get
insurance for my family at all.
Again, I'll reiterate that the problem with propositions is that they often
lack significant details--like how to appropriately finance this long-term. Even lawmakers who support prop 3 admit that it needs different financing in
order to accomplish the goals of the vote.
“House Majority Leader Francis Gibson, R-Mapleton, assured representatives
they'll be able tell their constituents that ‘we covered the spirit
of what that proposition was.’”No, no they will not.
The spirit in which the legislature is acting to overrule the will of the people
at a greater fiscal cost to cover fewer people is the antithesis of the spirit
with which a majority of Utahns voted for Proposition 3. This is wrong and the
people cannot be deceived.
I am so tired of arrogant politicians who think we are not smart enough to know
what is best for us. Republicans dont care what you think because they dont have
to. The R by their name guarantees election. It does not have to be this way.
Start electing Democrats and all of the sudden Republicans will start caring
about what you want.
"The bill's House sponsor, Rep. Jim Dunnigan, R-Taylorsville, "You should mention that Dunnigan works in the insurance business and
takes a lot of campaing cash from Big Insurance.