Kristine Frederickson: Peace possible only through Jesus Christ

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  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Feb. 6, 2019 11:28 a.m.

    sharrona,

    "Only the existence of the transcendent God can provide us with any meaning."

    Nonsense!

    And that's offensive, totalitarian rhetoric.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Feb. 2, 2019 11:15 a.m.

    RE: The Atheist. The utter meaninglessness of life from an earthbound perspective that does not take into account the creator God is one of the main points of the book of Ecclesiastes.

    The book contrasts life “under the sun” with “life under heaven,” the former referring to the perspective that looks at everything and concludes that the only thing that exists is what is visible to the human eye.”
    Under the sun, everything is vanity (Eccl.1:2–3). vanity means something like “vapor” or “breath.” What is fleetingness. Like vapor, everything is fleeting apart from reference to the Creator, and therefore everything is ultimately futile.
    Hard work produces gain for the worker for only a short while until his death (vv. 3–4). People run after new sights and sounds to entertain them, but nothing can satisfy (v. 8). Men and women strive to fill the emptiness they feel, but all their efforts are to no avail.

    Only the existence of the transcendent God can provide us with any meaning. Life lived with reference to Him — under heaven

    @ Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid. John 14:27

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Feb. 2, 2019 9:21 a.m.

    "Peace possible only through Jesus Christ"

    Others say, "Peace is possible only through Allah!"

    Others say, "Peace comes only through following Krishna, Vishnu, and Shiva."

    Whether they intend it or not, these are implicit totalitarian threats.

    It is the totalitarian threat implicit in all religion, and it is this mindset that inspires the most contention, divisiveness, violence, and war in the world!

    Perhaps peace comes when we all realize that!

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 12:28 p.m.

    @Heraclitus. Faith is belief, trust, etc. The key to understanding faith lies not in faith itself but in the Object of faith: God! Faith is only as good as who you put it in. Faith in a false god is useless and it doesn't save you. But faith in the True *God Does save you. Faith is only as good as who you put it in. Faith in the true God results in salvation. Faith in a false god results in damnation.

    “…if you do not believe that I(ego) am(eimi) *he, you will indeed die in your sins. "John 8:24

    @Thomas Aquinas treatise on the Trinity in the Summa Theology. Clarifying the central ideas through which he accounts for the nature of Trinitarian monotheism, he focuses on the personal relations of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, both in their eternal communion.

    By highlighting the thoughts and philosophies of one of the greatest defenders of the doctrine of the Trinity, the Christian understanding of God as three in one.

    It would obviously be wrong to think Aquinas as changing his mind about the content of anything he had written. And there may be a simple for him to have stopped producing, related to his medical condition that ended his life within the year

  • EscherEnigma Ridgecrest, CA
    Feb. 1, 2019 10:47 a.m.

    Peace is only possible through Jesus Christ?

    Ok. I'm agnostic/atheist (depending on mood and operating definitions). I will never convert, as I do not believe any version of the god of Abraham is a moral one, so even if you can convince me that some version exists, I will not worship.

    And I'm not all that unique in that respect.

    So given that peaceful conversion of every human is not possible, how is your idea of peace possible?

  • Heraclitus Prescott, AZ
    Feb. 1, 2019 10:08 a.m.

    @sharrona – “The numinous experience. Being full of awe, as a holy fear of the Lord”

    It’s clarity, it’s truth, it’s the peace that passes all understanding, and for me the absence of all fear.

    Thomas Aquinus, arguably the greatest theologian who ever lived, was said to obtain, through prayer & contemplation, the mystical union with God late in his life. Afterwards, when asked why he stopped writing, he said, “everything I have written seems like straw to me compared to the things I have seen.”

    Nothing more is required than to repent (in the true meaning of the word) and be still (Psalm 46). The mind is the servant of the ego and our time bound and constantly changing world. To go beyond the mind is to know eternity (changeless) and God.

    Reading can only take you so far. If that’s all you do, it becomes a subtle form of idolatry. But if you’re going to read I’d suggest reading repeatedly Matthew 6:33 (or John 14:20 or 1 Cor 6:19) and then set the book down and abide in silence.

    Do this daily and see what happens.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 8:30 a.m.

    @ Heraclitus “ I say this from direct experience”?

    The numinous experience. Being full of awe, as a holy fear of the Lord, one of the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit, along with wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, and piety.

    Prov 9:10, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. ”
    3 Biblical E.g...,

    Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the LORD."(Isa 6:5)

    Amazing Grace, How sweet the sound That saved a wretch like me …. t'was Grace that taught my heart to fear And Grace, my fears relieved

    John 3:7 “You must be born again”=.anthen from above. God is the one who, of His own sovereign will, freely chooses those whom He will save..

    @Are you saved? “Saved from what? ”Christians are saved by God, for God, from God.
    You turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. This is what Paul is saying in 1 Thess 1:9-10.
    Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him Rom5:9

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 6:40 a.m.

    @CMTM;

    That still doesn't prove your assumption.

  • Ether 4:17 Arlington, TX
    Feb. 1, 2019 6:39 a.m.

    I'm glad to see scriptures being shared. It's interesting to see different opinions on translations. It really comes down to watching out for false prophets, which implies there are true prophets. Why did both Jew and Gentile seek the baptism of John the Baptist? Because he was preaching the gospel of Christ. It's interesting that Christ didn't start his ministry until John was put in prison, because the people still needed the authority and the kingdom was at hand. But how was the gospel as Christ taught to be allowed with the religious leaders of the time holding such a clamp on the government? The Romans conquering of Jerusalem allowed for a separation of church and state, so to speak, where the new law of love thy neighbor and thy enemy, the teaching of resurrection, among others, could start to spread. Even now, will we come to a unity of faith before His 2nd return? Probably not, but He will reign over everyone. Everyone can believe what they will. We will be rewarded good for good, evil for evil. The gospel is one of the great experiments..."prove me herewith" and "he is a rewarder of them that dilligently seek him". Nurture the gospel seed and you will see the good fruit.

  • Heraclitus Prescott, AZ
    Jan. 31, 2019 5:05 p.m.

    @CMTM – “Evangelical biblical scholarship…”

    Yes, I’ve made that distinction. As I said, evangelicals misinterpret Luke 17:21 for theological reasons.

    Our “sinful nature” is the result of our perceived separation from God. Until we realize (directly) the Kingdom of God, we are prone to all the self-centered and misguided pursuits of happiness ranging from innocuous to evil.

    But once we see the Kingdom of God, those “natural” proclivities fall away like a discarded piece of clothing.

    Please know, I don’t say this as a matter of belief or reading a theology different from your own. I say this from direct experience.

    So again, I ask you – do you want to know directly the truth or are you content with words/beliefs?

    Go beyond the mind (repent) and know the kingdom. Seek and you shall find, knock and it will open for you.

    Best…

  • CMTM , 00
    Jan. 31, 2019 4:35 p.m.

    RE: Heraclitus. Evangelical) biblical scholarship Luke 17:21: “the kingdom of God is in your midst., "NIV,ESV,NASB ,NET,NAS.
    For the Kingdom of God is already among you "NLT

    Original sin (Psalm 51:5) results in our inheriting a sin nature so wicked that Jer 17:9 describes the human heart as “deceitful above all things and beyond cure.”

    Not only was Adam found guilty because he sinned, but his guilt and his punishment (death) belongs to us as well. E.g..,

    (Rom 5:12, “Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because wall sinned. 1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

    @Pelagianism says that Adam’s sin had no effect upon the souls of his descendants other than his sinful example influencing those who followed after him to also sin. According to this view, man has the ability to stop sinning if he simply chooses to.

    This teaching runs contrary to passages that say man is hopelessly enslaved by his sins (apart from God’s intervention) and that his good works are “dead” or worthless in meriting God’s favor (Eph 2:1-2; Mt 15:18-19; Rom 7:23; He 6:1; 9:14).

  • Heraclitus Prescott, AZ
    Jan. 31, 2019 1:46 p.m.

    @CMTM – “For indeed, the kingdom of God in your “midst. This is a far better translation than “in you.””

    We’ve discussed this before (do you not remember?). The (non-evangelical) biblical scholarship is largely in agreement that “within you” is the correct interpretation (see Ilaria Ramelli “The Kingdom of God is Inside You”).

    The evangelical view is – “Jesus couldn’t possibly have meant anyone but him, could he?” But in fact he did, however large swaths of the Christian establishment want to convince people that they are not divine (by nature); that we are wretched creatures only worthy of “adoption” if we do/believe what the ecclesiastical authorities say.

    If the NT tells us anything, it’s that we do not need “Scribes and Pharisees” (any church authorities) for our salvation – we simply need to repent (original Greek – metanoia, meaning to “go beyond” the mind) and realize the kingdom within.

    The choice is clear and before you – do you wish to see the Kingdom of God, or are you content to spend your days parsing words and concepts that will always keep you in the mind making true repentance impossible?

    I wish you the best…

  • CMTM , 00
    Jan. 31, 2019 1:11 p.m.

    RE: Ranch You're making the assumption that Christ is god. Quoting the superstitions of ancient people doesn't prove anything.

    In 1985, Dr. Gary Habermas and Antony Flew debated the question of Jesus' resurrection as a literal and ... The judges ruled that Habermas won the debate. ... Habermas is a staunch defender of the resurrection of Jesus

    In 2004 philosopher Antony Flew, one of the world's most prominent atheists, publicly acknowledged that he had become persuaded of the existence of God.

    No ancient literature has survived in its original form; everything we have is derived from copies of the originals. The NT is no exception. However, in comparison with any other ancient literature, the NT is without a peer—both in terms of the chronological proximity and the surviving number. Several ancient authorities are preserved in only a handful of manuscripts. Not so with the NT. There are approximately 5,500 Greek witnesses, ranging in date from the second century AD into the middle ages. Besides the Greek evidence, there are nearly 30,000 versional copies (e.g., Latin, Coptic, and Syriac), and over 1,000,000 quotations from the NT in the church Fathers. .

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 12:08 p.m.

    @CMTM;

    You're making the assumption that Christ is god. Quoting the superstitions of ancient people doesn't prove anything.

  • CMTM , 00
    Jan. 31, 2019 11:38 a.m.

    RE: Heraclitus .@Luke 17:21 NET. ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God in your “midst.
    This is a far better translation than “in you.” Jesus would never tell the hostile Pharisees that the kingdom was inside them. The reference is to Jesus present in their midst. He brings the kingdom. Another possible translation would be “in your grasp.”

    @ Mt 3:2- 3 ”…the kingdom of heaven is near.” Verse:3 For He (Jesus)is the one about whom Isaiah the prophet had spoken:

    RE:” your true nature (child of God)” Actually Christians must be adopted by God:

    For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. “For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father! ” Rom 8;14-15

    And those He predestined He also called; those He called He also justified; those He justified He also glorified. Rom 8:30

    He predestined us (Christians) for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, Eph 1:5

    RE: Ranch – “And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus “.(Phil 4:7)

  • EscherEnigma Ridgecrest, CA
    Jan. 31, 2019 9:59 a.m.

    Your (interpretation of ) Jesus Christ would require I divorce my husband.

    Similarly, for most of Christian history, the interpretation is that your idea of "love" requires, at best, my imprisonment, if not my death. The idea that you should merely disapprove of me but not brutally murder me is a modern development.

    So I'll have to beg forgiveness, but your (interpretation of) Jesus Christ has never brought me peace, only misery. And complying with your (interpretation of) Jesus Christ would only amplify that misery, for myself and others.

    So to make a long story short... if your idea of "peace" can only be accomplished by everyone living according to (your interpretation of) Jesus Christ, then it is destructive folly that none should seek.

  • Heraclitus Prescott, AZ
    Jan. 31, 2019 9:54 a.m.

    “Truth be told, without individual self-restraint the goal of peaceful, loving societies is extinguished and readily replaced by rapacious, treacherous communities.”

    Self-restraint has a role, especially early in our development. But real peace can only come when people en masse see the Kingdom of God. The question though is, “what did Jesus mean in verses like Luke 17:21 and Matthew 3:2 (and 4:17)?”

    Walt Whitman once said, "To feel 'I am the truth' is to abolish the opposition between knowing and being."

    This is what Jesus was talking about and why he said the kingdom was both at hand and within. This is the core message of Jesus, which sadly has been distorted and overlaid with countless beliefs, doctrines, rituals, superstitions, and (worst of all) a myopic focus on the future (afterlife) at the expense of right now.

    You can wake up to your true nature (child of God) today, and if you do all the ethical behavior discussed in this article will be an effortless manifestation of you being one with the Father and the Son (John 17:21 and John 14:20).

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:18 a.m.

    Peace doesn't take Jesus, it takes people. This article assumes that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccans, Satanists, FSMers, etc. aren't capable of peace, that they "need Jesus".

    What a sad, sad commentary on "the religious". Tragic.

  • Rikitikitavi Cardston, Alberta
    Jan. 31, 2019 7:28 a.m.

    It is never easy to live in a world where there is so much contention and hate as we find in our world at present. Sadly, in nations founded on Christian principles, people are so widely divided and fewer seem to focus their lives on Christ and on the Ten Commandments as the moral beacon.
    Instead there is a new religion and a new set of questionable values. The new religion is the environment with it's accompanying creed of entitlement. The creed of "me first".
    Reality dictates that the origin of this alarming transformation is the philosophies of the political left. Abandonment of Christ as our exemplar, with the loss of focus on "Love the Lord thy God" and "Love thy neighbor as thyself" being kicked to the curb.