Letter: Blame Trump for the shutdown

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  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 4, 2019 6:57 a.m.

    To "Edgar" ok, then based on your latest statement, let me clarify what you are saying.

    You are saying that when Democrats oppose the President, it is a justified and good balance of power. However, when Republicans do the same thing to a Democrat President it is because the republicans are horrible people and should get on board with the President's plans.

    The only way that Obama was the polar opposite from Trump is in his manner of speech. Obama was smooth, Trump is not. However, they both would verbally abuse their opponents, and both have their own political agendas. Trump is more conservative, but not a complete opposite of Obama.

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    Feb. 1, 2019 7:15 p.m.

    Redshirt said, "...so then you agree that Democrats are not actually doing what is best for the country, but they are just acting out to gain political power."

    So Redshirt, you really shouldn't assume you understand what I am saying, especially when you've missed the mark by such a wide mark. I am definitely not saying "Democrats are not actually doing what is best for the country, but they are just acting out to gain political power."

    Thankfully they are finally doing what the Republicans in Congress have failed to do for the past two years. It is their Constitutional duty to be a check and balance over the Executive Branch of the government and after two years of a free ride from Republicans, there its finally going to be a day of reckoning for this reckless president.

    And just for the record, President Obama is the polar opposite of President Trump. President Obama used his time in office to bring basic rights to all of the people of this country while President Trump is using his office for vindictive purposes over those who he esteems to have crossed him in the past. In fact, his whole motivation has been to undo the good things that President Obama,a put into place.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 1, 2019 2:32 p.m.

    To "Edgar " so then you agree that Democrats are not actually doing what is best for the country, but they are just acting out to gain political power.

    I assume you also now agree that Trump and the Democrats have the same relationship that Obama and the Republicans had. So, to say that Trump is acting the same way that Obama did is a true statement because the situations are so similar.

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    Feb. 1, 2019 1:07 p.m.

    Redshirt 1701 - Oh I see, you're talking about these comments:

    “When the president and his agenda pose a clear and present danger to a large number of Americans, Democrats need to consider doing everything they can to try to stop him,” said Jim Manley, a former top aide to retired senator Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) WaPo

    or

    "Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon said on Monday that he would filibuster anyone who is not Merrick Garland" - NY Magazine

    or

    "Democrats launch scorched-earth strategy against Trump" in Politico

    The difference in these comments and the one Boehner made is that there is justification about a specific issue, For instance Jim Manley was referring to the president's Muslim undertaking less than two weeks into his presidency. That ban poses a danger to Muslims in and outside the U.S. and not just for travel but by targeting them for persecution by people like the White Supremists the president has supported.

    Or Senator Merkley's comment related to the unethical actions of the Mitch McConnell blocking president Obama's pick from ever having a hearing.

    Nothing that you've listed compares to the bare statement of Boehner promising a blanket obstruction.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Feb. 1, 2019 12:20 p.m.

    Redshirt,

    I found something I can actually agree with you on. You said "If no bill actually made it to Trump's desk, how is he responsible for the shut down?" You are correct so the shutdown is really on Mitch McConnell, who allowed bills to open the government to sit on his desk for over 3 weeks. Whether they pass or not is not relevant, but they should have been voted on.

    2 bits,

    You said "Everybody knows what this is about. Not letting Trump get something he wants."

    Speaking for myself I don't know that. A year ago they were willing to give him 25 million for his wall in exchange for a DACA deal. Now the President wants to say ok I get I have to share power with you, so I will still give you nothing, but you need to give me a 5 million dollar wall so I can claim victory. I think the Democrats believe there is a deal out there to be had and would give him a wall if he would give them something real in return. Temporary protection for DACA kids (fixing what he broke is not a deal). He fails to understand the art of the deal, give and take. He thinks the deal is take and take. Not going to fly for the next two years.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 1, 2019 11:59 a.m.

    To "Edgar" see "Congressional Democrats have declared war on Donald Trump" in the Washington Post. See also "These Democrats Have Already Said They’ll Oppose Trump SCOTUS Pick Neil Gorsuch" in NY Magazine. See also "Democrats launch scorched-earth strategy against Trump" in Politico.

    The evidence is there, if you were paying attention. Remember the memo that was leaked stating opposition to Trump's nominee, before the nominee was announced?

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    Feb. 1, 2019 10:56 a.m.

    2 bits said, "It's his job. It's every President's job. Every President SHOULD do it."

    So you are suggesting that 'every President' should use 800,000 federal employees and their livelihood to get what they want? Isn't there a better way to fight a political battle and isn't it appropriate to sometimes concede defeat without harming productive citizens?

    And when ECR called Trump's action indefensible, I'm pretty sure he wasn't talking about the shutdown but about other acts his sycophants have defended like:
    - Choosing to believe Vladimir Putin over our own intelligence community
    - Suggesting the leaders of our intelligence community should "go back to school" because they openly opposed his assessment of the greatest threats to our country
    - Supporting and defending the Saudi Crown Prince whose involvement with a journalist's murder was the conclusion of our IC.

    Redshirt - please find a documented quote from Democrats or the press saying they would "stop anything and everything that he wants to do" such when John Boehner, said about Obama’s agenda: “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.”

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 9:32 a.m.

    trump and the GOP had two years to fund and build the wall. They did not do so. trump was given funding from the GOP but did not take it.

    This is nothing but political grandstanding by the GOP. They know they can prey on the ignorance of their base to rile up anger against illegals and democrats.

    The shutdown is entirely the GOP's fault but they are blaming the dems to rile up the base to win back congress in two years.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 9:00 a.m.

    Redshirt - you said " In December the House passed a bill that would have funded the wall, but the Senate Democrats were able to prevent it from passing because the Republicans didn't have a sufficient majority to override the Democrats."

    And yet they had the votes to get justices on to the courts - that were opposed to by Democrats. How in this case were the Republicans not able to get enough votes?

    Also, asking for the money in the 24th month of a 24 month cycle... and then acting surprised they couldn't rush it through... how many continuing resolutions preceded this funding request? And how did the amount officially requested by the White House in the current budget cycle go from just under two Billion in the official White House document, to just under 6 in November and December?

    The democrats were against a couple of judges, and the upper class tax break... and yet they passed. But magically somehow their minority prevented funding for the wall. How did that happen? And how is the lack of action by the Republicans become Democrats fault. Two years... they own the inaction on this one.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 8:53 a.m.

    Listen - the Republicans for two years had control of all the levers to provide funding for this project. Let's ignore for the moment if the project has merit or not. The fact is this was a priority for the White House. For two years this project and its funding was under the control of the party that championed it.

    And yet after two years, in the waining days of a congressional session, only then did they try to get their funding. For two years they could have provided some obtuse loosely crafted language that would have provided Trump with funding for his pet project. And yet they did not. They choose to take a vote on the subject at the 11 and 9/10ths hour to sneak this into the budget resolution.

    And they failed.

    It isn't that the democrats opposed it that was the problem. It was that when they held all the keys and levers, they failed. At the end of the day it was because Trump despite having a friendly congress as a tail wind on this, didn't get it done in the honeymoon period.

    Trump choose to go after Iran. He choose to go after Canada. He choose a tax break first. He used his political chips on other things before securing his wall funding, and lost.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 8:25 a.m.

    ECR
    It's not whataboutism. It's history. It's perspective. It's encouraging you to look at things in a broader context.

    I point out that Obama did the same things because I hope everybody can remember 2 years back. But if word count allows I usually point out examples from Bush, Clinton, Reagan too. Or any President.

    I'm not saying it's OK for Trump to do something bad because Obama did it first. I'm saying it's not bad. It's something EVERY President does. It's his job.

    That's the point. It's not whataboutism. It's pointing out that Trump pushing Congress for things he wants passed is not illegal (as some said). It's his job. It's every President's job. Every President SHOULD do it. It's the President's job to push Congress to do the things he wants done.

    ===

    RE: "Indefensible acts"...
    ---
    How are they "Indefensible" acts... When every President has built parts of the wall? And every President has pushed Congress to pass his agenda?

    ===

    A new President's party usually looses seats in the mid-term after their election. Happened to Obama, Bush, Clinton, Reagan... doesn't mean he has no power now, or he's no longer President. He still has to do the job.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 7:53 a.m.

    2 bits - Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 2:52 p.m.
    Blaming is over-rated.

    "Blaming rarely fixes any significant problem. Blaming is the wrong approach if you want to solve any problem I've encountered in life. Unless your goal is just to make somebody feel bad, or look bad. That's all "Blaming" is good for."

    "Affixing the blame properly is a fool's errand. It does nothing to solve the problem."

    "Blame is only good for the ego (of the person doing the blaming)."

    "It doesn't actually help anything."

    "Trump is to blame. Schummer is to blame. McConnell is to blame. Pelosi is to blame for parts of it."

    So why do you and other Republicans Blame Obama and Hillary for everything?

    After claiming that "blame" doesn't solve anything and is only good for the ego of the person blaming, you go on to blame Trump, Schumer, McConnell and Pelosi.

    I blame you for your contradictions.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 1, 2019 7:44 a.m.

    To "ECR" you just described Trump too. He is constantly fighting against the Democrats AND the media that has decided to stop anything and everything that he wants to do. Trump and Obama have had to deal with very similar things.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 31, 2019 4:38 p.m.

    2 bits - While I get tired of all the "whataboutisms" that Trump supporters use to defend his indefensible acts, I will explain the simple differences between Trump and Obama.

    Obama spent most of his 8 years in office fighting a Republican majority that promised, openly, to obstruct anything he wanted to do. And no, that didn't stop Obama from pushing his agenda forward. He used other tactics like executive orders to do things that people complained about who didn't support him and it was interesting to see how their opinion of EOs changed drastically with the new presidency.

    I have never suggested President Trump was not within his rights to push his agenda. I'm only suggesting that now that he has some opposition, unlike the cakewalk he has enjoyed since he took office, he has to use some skill to get his agenda passed.

    And finally, despite his handicap with the opposing party holding the majority, President Obama never held 800,000 federal workers hostage for 35 days without pay to get his way, causing hardships that will take months and years to fix. And if he had done that, he would have had a plan to actually achieve something with that action. Trump got nothing.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 3:47 p.m.

    ECR
    Lets see if you are consistent with your rhetoric.

    You said, "We've all heard the saying that elections have consequences. The election of 2018 meant that the president lost power and influence"...
    ---
    so... does that mean President Obama could do nothing, he had no support and could do nothing for the last 2 years of his first term?

    His party did lose the super-majority in the House and the Senate after his first 2 years. Same thing. And President Obama continued to try to pass his agenda. Didn't he?

    So... to be consistent with the malarkey that losing seats in the mid-term after an election means the President can no longer get anything he wanted... you ready to go there?

    By this lame rational Pres Obama shouldn't have even got a second term. He wouldn't even get the ACA (it wasn't fully passed until 2 years into his first term).

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 31, 2019 3:25 p.m.

    2 bits, I would like to respectfully disagree with your assertion that "Trump is to blame. Schummer is to blame. McConnell is to blame. Pelosi is to blame for parts of it."

    It's easy and sometimes appropriate to say the blame should be shared. After all, the folks you have mentioned are on the news everyday and they become easy targets. But I would like to suggest there is a much more simple way to analyze this issue. In the days before the vote on the budget we saw Schumer and Pelosi at the White House telling the president explicitly that they would not support funding the president's wall. I'm sure the president can count votes and he must have known the bill with wall funding was not going to pass.

    We've all heard the saying that elections have consequences. The election of 2018 meant that the president lost power and influence. So rather than stop paying 800,000 workers who had nothing to do with the wall vote, why didn't the president use some of those world class negotiating tactics he brags about? Putting those people out of work was equivalent to him holding his breath until he got his way. And in the end, he didn't.

    Elections have consequences.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 3:20 p.m.

    @Kent
    RE: "If Congress gives in to a presidential demand, it sets a precedent for future abuses of executive power."...
    ---
    How is a President making a demand of Congress abuse of power?

    It happens all the time. Every President has made demands of Congress.

    Presidents push for policies they want, things they promised, all the time.

    Think President Obama didn't push Congress to pass ACA?

    Think he didn't demand stimulus funding?

    Think Bush didn't push Congress to pass things?

    It happens. President's push for the things they promised. It happens all the time. Get over it.

    It's not like he's issuing an executive order prohibiting INS from enforcing laws passed by Congress. That would be "abuse of power".

    I don't know why it matters that it took 2 years to get to this. We keep hearing that as a reason. If that's a valid reason to not allow it to pass because he didn't do it in his first 2 years.... then nothing a President or Congress tries to get done after the 2nd year of a President's administration can pass. That's malarkey. Doesn't matter if it took 2 years to get to it.

    Everybody knows what this is about.

    Not letting Trump get something he wants

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 2:52 p.m.

    Blaming is over-rated.

    Blaming rarely fixes any significant problem. Blaming is the wrong approach if you want to solve any problem I've encountered in life. Unless your goal is just to make somebody feel bad, or look bad. That's all "Blaming" is good for.

    Every leadership training I've been through has discouraged the practice of focusing on blame, or blaming the right people, when trying to solve a problem.

    Affixing the blame properly is a fool's errand. It does nothing to solve the problem.

    Blame is only good for the ego (of the person doing the blaming).

    It doesn't actually help anything.

    Trump is to blame. Schummer is to blame. McConnell is to blame. Pelosi is to blame for parts of it. But just blaming the right people for the right parts of the problem does nothing to solve the problem.

    Unless you're a politico who gets off on this type of game.

    We need to quit focusing on the blame (as a nation) and start focusing on the solution.

    Do we need a physical barrier in some places? Yes (according to all our border security experts). But do we need it everywhere? No (according to the experts). So compromise, and build it where it's needed.

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 10:15 a.m.

    Every piece of available evidence points the blame on trump and mcconell.

    Two years trump had both houses of congress and what did they do? They passed a giant tax cut for millionaires and fooled the little people with an extra few dollars. The did nothing else. They never even brought a budget to a vote.

    The donald proclaimed that it was his shut down. Its on video.

    The new house passed the exact same bill the senate had voted 100-0 for in December but mcconnell refused to even bring it up for a vote because he knows that would force the GOP senators to actually declare where they are on the issue.

    And of course when Obama was president the donald had said many times that the president is responsible for government shutdowns.

    The truth is trump was wholly unprepared to do the job of president. I think he ran for his ego and I dont think he thought he was going to win.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 9:47 a.m.

    To "Kent C. DeForrest" but Congress doesn't have to do what any President demands. They can override any veto they want. In a lot of ways they have more power than the POTUS.

    To "ECR" he did ask for it, but the Democrats stopped it. In December the House passed a bill that would have funded the wall, but the Senate Democrats were able to prevent it from passing because the Republicans didn't have a sufficient majority to override the Democrats.

  • Lia , 00
    Jan. 31, 2019 9:03 a.m.

    trump and his comprehensive failure as president are the stuff of horror films.
    Except this isn't a film.
    He'll get us all broke--or dead.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:49 a.m.

    Redshirt said, "...you do realize that taking the blame and actually being the source of the problem are 2 separate things in this instance."

    In this case, they are the same. The president let it be known, initially, that he would look for other sources of money for his wall after his showdown in the White House with Schumer and Pelosi and he transmitted that message to McConnell who quickly held a vote for a bill with no wall funding and it passed easily. In the meantime, the president's true constituents - right wing media - sent a message that he would be labeled 'loser' if that bill passed, so the president put the Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan up to presenting a different bill that included the wall funding. It passed the Republican controlled House but when it got to the Senate it needed 60 votes and it failed. ALL of this was under the direction of the president.

    Now ask yourself this - Why didn't the president request this funding from Congress when his party had control of both the Seante and House? Could it be that he really doesn't want it or understands that it would be wasteful spending but just wants an issue to fight about and blame Democrats for?

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:45 a.m.

    Of course it is Trump's shutdown. If Congress gives in to a presidential demand, especially one that a large majority of Americans think is wrong, it sets a precedent for future abuses of executive power. If there was such a crisis at the border, and if the wall was the best way to deal with that crisis, why didn't Trump push for the wall when he had a majority in both houses of Congress? I guess it wasn't such a crisis before the Mueller investigation began getting closer and closer to the president. Nice distraction.

    But, as one columnist put it, presiding over a government shutdown when you control both houses of Congress is similar to wearing both a belt and suspenders and still having your pant fall down.

    It appears this time when Trump doesn't get his way, he'll declare a fake emergency and try to get his wall that way. Maybe that's the best solution. It will be tied up in court for two years, and then the next president can just take it off the table.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:43 a.m.

    RedShirt said: "If no bill actually made it to Trump's desk, how is he responsible for the shut down?"

    Well that would be on Mitch buddy wouldn't it, so I'll give you that.

    It was Trumps insistence that he get his way or he won't sign anything, and Mitches fear of, or refusal to put it to a vote and see if Donald would veto it, thus enabling or protecting the petulant child and his self claimed shutdown.

    Not sure how anybody can argue any other way?

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 7:59 a.m.

    How much longer can we afford to have Republicans ruining the country?

    A few years ago Jason Chaffetz and his buddy Ted Cruz shut down the government. It was reported to cost $24 Billion and hurt his voters in Utah that relied on the National Parks and Monuments for tourism.

    Trump, by reports so far in the news, cost $11 Billion for this shutdown.

    Trump, in less than 2 years increased the deficit by 10% or $2 Trillion dollars.

    This is the party that claims they are the party of fiscal responsibility.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 7:08 a.m.

    To "Raymond Hult" other than wanting to blame Trump, what actions did he take that lead to the shut down?

    According to the US constitution all spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, then the bill must be passed by the Senate, then the President can veto it or sign it into law.

    If no bill actually made it to Trump's desk, how is he responsible for the shut down?

    It is like you are blaming your child that is away at college for not filling up your car with gas. They may accept responsibility, but in reality there was nothing they could do.

    To "Impartial7" and "ECR" you do realize that taking the blame and actually being the source of the problem are 2 separate things in this instance.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Jan. 31, 2019 6:45 a.m.

    H V H

    In the face of evidence that the President's intransigence caused this national shame, you still believe the 'both sides did it' argument is reasonable?

    IMHO, this is not a rational understanding of events.

  • Utefan60 , 00
    Jan. 31, 2019 6:35 a.m.

    For once in all the lies that Trump has spewed out and the media has fact checked, I believe Trump when he said he was responsible for this horrible and damaging shutdown. He flat out said he would take responsibility!

    He said it. He did it, and it will probably happen again because he has no compassion for the working class, or those employees that he is "supposed" to lead.

    No amount of his supporter's falsehoods, or twisting of the facts will change what he said on national TV.

    The buck stops with him.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 1:04 a.m.

    Way ahead of you. The upcoming one is trump shutdown 2.0

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 30, 2019 8:26 p.m.

    President Trump stated on a nationally meeting at the White House that he would be proud to take responsibility for the shutdown. After the first Congressional vote failed to pass the spending bill before Christmas, the president took that move and shutdown the government. He also required certain people to work without pay. After the new year started when the new House of Representatives took power they passed the exact bill that the Senate had approved before the holidays but then the Republican Senate Leader, Mitch McConell, refused to bring that bill forward for a vote, which led to the shutdown.

    How can anyone blame the Democrats for the shutdown?

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 30, 2019 7:58 p.m.

    Well, this is a no brainer Trump,on December 11, on his insistence to be on National TV, claimed the Shutdown his. "I'm proud to carry the mantle". I'll take the blame". Pretty much end of discussion.

  • Happy Valley Hillbilly Alpine, UT
    Jan. 30, 2019 6:52 p.m.

    Coming from one who is neither democrat or republican, but a libertarian-leaning independent,
    I hold both parties represented in Congress equally responsible for the shutdown. Utterly shameful behavior on both sides from those we hired to represent us.