In our opinion: The nation needs a slice of humble pie

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  • vern001 Castle Rock, CO
    Feb. 4, 2019 2:19 p.m.

    There's a lot of truth in this piece, but at the same time don't we also believe in facts, data, and truth? Sometimes it's not just a question of opinion. For example, it is a fact that the climate is changing. It is a fact that the vast majority of climatologists believe climate change is largely due to humankind. And yes, there are those who don't believe these facts, but there are also those who believe the Earth is flat and the moon landing was faked. We don't always have to give equal time to both sides of an issue, if one side is clearly off the deep end.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 4, 2019 6:51 a.m.

    To "silo" so again, you didn't bother to even verify that the facts given were correct. But that was not the intent of my original post. The purpose was find the people, like you, who react without first trying to understand.

    I never said to accept what I stated blindly. The facts that I gave are easily verified, if you look at them with humility and an open mind.

  • patrioticAMERICAN South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 2, 2019 10:42 a.m.

    Be careful what you wish for. With the incompetence and chaos that exists with our current administration, Americans are ripe to get that humbling in the near future. Whether it's the kind that came in '08, or the kind that came with 9/11, only time will tell. Or maybe it will simply be the kind that mother nature has been pounding the country with the last few years because we have refused to acknowledge humans role in creating this crisis, or do enough to try and stop it. One way or another, our pride and stubbornness is about to bring upon us a reckoning, & it's not likely to be very pretty.

  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    Feb. 2, 2019 7:02 a.m.

    Ideologues on both sides of the spectrum aided by their certain media friends from both sides of the spectrum put this story out there with their own special slant... those are the folks that need the humble pie

    The rest of us are in the middle... we have a good deal of common sense ... we know the score and frankly we would rather be doing anything other than being caught up in a 15 minute news cycle that means nothing to us

    I’m going fishing along with my friends.. the ideologues can order their humble pie now

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 2, 2019 1:38 a.m.

    "In our opinion: The nation needs a slice of humble pie"

    No way. I'm a stable genius, who knows all the best words, with a large A-brain. White male. Reward me for it.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 3:16 p.m.

    @redshirt
    "so you didn't bother to verify the facts"

    You didn't provide any 'facts' to verify. You provided opinions. Claiming Obama is the 3 worst President is an opinion. Claiming the recession stretched 5 years too long is an opinion. Claiming his policies drove down the labor participation rate is an opinion.

    You provided zero citations to support your opinions. That's a fact.

    "you are showing that you are not going in with a humble attitude, willing to look at what I said objectively."

    There's a massive difference between objectivity and blind trust. Everything you stated about climate change theories being 'junk' are opinions, and you're expecting blind trust from those who read them.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 1, 2019 11:57 a.m.

    To "silo" so you didn't bother to verify the facts. I hate to tell you this, but again, you are showing that you are not going in with a humble attitude, willing to look at what I said objectively. You went in with an objective, and your latest post shows that your objective isn't to listen and understand, but is to dominate and ensure conformance.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Feb. 1, 2019 11:29 a.m.

    @redshirt
    "Ok, tell us how did you listen to what I have to say"

    Yes. We read your entire post.

    But without any citations or actual references to back it up, it's simply your opinion in comment form.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Jan. 31, 2019 10:19 p.m.

    @Prometheus.
    For good or ill, and whether someone voted for him or not, the first African-American President was a reflection of the soul of America.

    Likewise, like him or don’t like him, the current narcissistic president also is a reflection of who and what America is at this point in time.

    The president represents all Americans, because that’s what we all agreed to 200+ years ago, and what we continue to agree to today.

    The cool part is, the Founders anticipated the advent of evil people occupying the presidency, roaming the halls of Congress, and even donning the robes of the highest courts of the land, and watered down the actual power of each branch of government, forcing them to work with other branches of government to take any significant actions.

    Especially in times of tribalistic and acrimonious political division, government grinds to very slow movement (gridlock) precisely as designed by the Founders, who knew all too well that power tends to corrupt almost all men and women to one degree or another.

  • Soccer ⚽ Coach St. George, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 2:48 p.m.

    It was really disgraceful how the left and the MSM treating the students from Covington Catholic.

    Death Threats? Closing their school?

    pure hatred, pure blindness.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 12:49 p.m.

    The Deseret News Editorial Board have really latched on to the buzzphrase "instant certainty"; and, while I believe that their statements about instant certainty have considerable merit, I also believe they fall short because they express a focus that is too narrow - a blind man touching only one part of the elephant, figuratively speaking.

    There seems to be a general disregard for objective truth and honesty at the heart of the discord and tribalism that is prevalent today, and I believe that instant certainty is only one of its major causes. Other major causes include "confirmation bias" - the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs, "cognitive dissonance" - the mental discomfort that occurs when confronted with facts that contradict personal beliefs and the defense mechanisms used to resolve this discomfort, and "paradigm paralysis" - the inability or refusal to think or see outside or beyond one's current way of thinking or perceiving things.

    I think, more often than any of us would care to admit, we are all like "The Blind Men and the Elephant" in the poem by John Godfrey Saxe.

  • J. Smith Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 12:37 p.m.

    It is possible that it was the pies that caused the move from numbles to umbles. 'A numble pie' could easily have become an umble pie', in the same way that 'a napron' became 'an apron' and 'an ewt' became 'a newt'. This changing of the boundaries between words is called metanalysis and is commonplace in English.

    The adjective humble, meaning 'of lowly rank' or 'having a low estimate of oneself' derived separately from umbles, which derives from Latin and Old French words for loins. (Incidentally, if you feel like girding your loins and aren't sure exactly where they are, the OED coyly describes them as 'the parts of the body that should covered with clothing'). The similarity of the sound of the words, and the fact that umble pie was often eaten by those of humble situation could easily have been the reason for 'eat humble pie' to have come to have its current idiomatic meaning.

  • screenname Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 12:28 p.m.

    ThomasJefferson:

    "This is all true. And it seems to me that some people need this message more than others. They know who they are, but will they apply it?"

    Now THERE is that humility the article was asking for.

  • 💊Take the Red Pill Mesa, AZ
    Jan. 31, 2019 11:38 a.m.

    It boggles my mind that any objective person watching the videos could fault the Catholic students at the "March for Life." Yet, as pointed out in the article, many leftists have done just that, ignored all evidence. Shows the racism of the left.

    I have high praise for the students as they found a positive solution to both attacks. They handled themselves as gentlemen, Christians, and showed they are a force for good for society.

    I have often been critical of the paper, but I am very impressed they would revisit this issue after initially blowing it. Congratulations to the editorial staff.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 11:35 a.m.

    To "UtahBlueDevil" so, did you think of those while reading and considering the validity of what I said, or was that just your knee jerk reaction to reading my statements? Actually my statements about Obama are factually true. (It wasn't about the details of what I said, just that they are points that your ilk disagrees with.)

    So, did you go into my comments with an open mind, prepared to accept the reality of them, or did you immediately come up with your response as you read each point?

  • HSTucker Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 11:03 a.m.

    It is difficult to imagine just how much humble pie would be required to change the hearts and minds of those who live in a fantasy world in which, for example, murder is rationalized as "healthcare." Perhaps it will take great and dreadful events of biblical proportions?

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 10:33 a.m.

    Humility is always good advice that we all need to be reminded of frequently.

    "Being limited to echo chambers of similar ideas inhibits one’s ability to have a healthy discussion about issues and from being able to learn and grow from different opinions."

    "Being humble means adapting to new information and adjusting initial beliefs when more truth comes to light. It requires learning from those with whom you disagree, exercising healthy dialogue and communication, giving credit where credit is due, asking for advice and admitting when one is wrong."

    "No one is exempt — the media, lawmakers, pundits and citizens all need a healthy slice of humble pie to stay true to the facts, the principles and the honest conversations that will lead the country forward."

    This is all true. And it seems to me that some people need this message more than others. They know who they are, but will they apply it?

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 10:26 a.m.

    I find it interesting that some how this has devolved into arguments about Obama.... some making statements of "fact" about what did our didn't happen.

    For example, many complain about the rate of growth post recession. But no two recessions are alike. It wasn't the US was having slower growth than its peers - all countries were having slow growth. Was Germany having slow growth because of Obama? We don't know. Or was the US having slow growth because its trading partners were having slow growth. Anyone who claims to "know" these answers is frankly not being honest with themselves.

    Just like the car company bail outs. It surely was a controversial. But its one case where a conservative president met in the middle with "liberals" to provide a way of keeping these companies afloat. Bush will always be called a liberal because of this. But had he not done that, that the US only had one care manufacture left - what would that have done. No one "knows" that answer... no one.

    So when you claim to know the definitive answer on anything - you are pretty much the people the author is talking about.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 10:16 a.m.

    Redshirt... I would say I disagree with your statements because they are limited on the data they pull from. For you example you say Obama was the worst president based on a bunch of "ever" statements. But most of those are factually not true. And then you make statements like slowest out of a recession... but what about those that led us into recessions - those aren't worse? Your arguments are based off of web based politically driven talking points.

    Another example - global warming isn't measured on just CO2. Never was. But that became the talking point of some with an agenda. NOAA just this week put out a cartoon showing how warmer water temps are driving colder air plunging from the north. The changes in weather patterns are based on the average temperature on land - but at sea - and how the currents changes with ocean temperatures.

    The power of a hurricane season is determined by the temperature of the current coming off Africa into the Caribbean - not how how Vegas got last year. Research "Global mean surface temperature change since 1880. Source: NASA GISS" The we can talk... but it takes having an open mind not driven by a political agenda.

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 9:58 a.m.

    ute alumni:
    "Libs only react and many times, like this to a faults narrative.
    I agree being humbled is needed. Both coasts sliding into to ocean?"

    Now THERE is that humility the article was asking for.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 31, 2019 9:14 a.m.

    More humility, yes. IMHO it started with all of this "time out" crap and everyone gets a participant ribbon. No discipline in schools.

    The younger generation doesn't understand being told no or how to deal with losing or not getting their way.

    A little humble pie is good for everyone. I wish our State & Federal officials would eat a slice.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 9:13 a.m.

    "We ought to be more humble and listen to what contradicts our preconcieved notions. And admit to ourselves that we may not have all the facts we need to form an opinion."

    "Ok, tell us how did you listen to what I have to say, or the entire time did you just think of ways to prove me wrong?"

    I can't answer for Unrepentant..but for myself..yes, because we've listened to your opinion for the last eight years about those subjects and done the research and know your opinion about climate change is cherry picked and wrong, we also know your opinions about the Obama economy are completely contradicted by the actual circumstances of the time.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:45 a.m.

    The nation or our narcissist administration?

    “Nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world.”
    “I’m very highly educated. I know words; I have the best words.”
    “No one has more respect for women than me.”
    “I have the best temperament or certainly one of the best temperaments of anybody that’s ever run for the office of president. Ever.”
    “Look, I know more about renewables than any human being on earth.”
    “I’m the best thing that’s ever happened to the Secret Service.”
    “I will be the greatest jobs president God ever created.”
    “I write a book called The Art of the Deal, the #1 selling business book of all time.”
    “Peace all over the world would be the best deal. And I think I would know how to do that better than anybody else.”
    “Nobody reads the Bible more than me.”
    “No one has done more for people with disabilities than me.”
    “I would be the best for women, the best for women’s health issues.”
    “I am the least racist person you’ve ever encountered.”
    “Nobody has better toys than I do.”
    “I know more about foreign policy than anybody running.”
    “I’m the most successful person ever to run for the presidency, by far. Nobody’s ever been more successful than me.”

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:28 a.m.

    "The Nation needs more humility".... publicly proclaims an "opinion writer".
    The classic self-referential paradox.

    ...or is it the Dunning-Kruger effect?
    Please exercise humility in your responses.

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:27 a.m.

    This is a good point. I absolutely agree that more humility was needed by all parties involved at the Lincoln Memorial.

    If you watch the video, the Catholic students, the Black Isrealites and the Native American group certainly displayed no ingredient found in a organic humble pie.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:13 a.m.

    Older people should recognize that the world in 2019 is quite different than it was in 1989.

    Younger people may just want to remember that older people have considerably more experience on earth than they do. That experience informs their worldview in mostly a healthy way.

    Older people have learned not to panic. 99% of the things we worry about never happen. The other 1% turns out to be not as bad as we thought, most of the time. And most of the 1% we can’t control anyway.

    If you’re conservative, add a little CNN or MSNBC or NPR or late night TV talk shows to your diet.

    If you are liberal, check out Fox News every now and then. And even a little daytime conservative talk radio if you can.

    If we listen to understand (exercising humility) and not nitpick, this can balance our natural personal bias and lead to better individual and collective decisions. It can lead us back to the unity that America has gradually been losing over my lifetime.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 31, 2019 8:18 a.m.

    To "unrepentant progressive" ok, lets test what you say.

    I say that current climate change theories are nothing but junk science and we should ignore what people like Al Gore say. This is due to the fact that the NOAA stated that it was virtually impossible to have no statistically warming for more than 10 years. We had 22 years with no statistically significant warming, therefore all climate change models must be completely revised and be founded on something other than CO2 as the driver.

    How about this. Obama was the 3rd worst President in US history because he kept us in the Recession for 5 years longer than we should have been. He also oversaw 2 downgrades to the US credit rating. He had the worst average GDP growth rate in US history. He also enacted policies that resulted in the US being at its lowest labor participation rate in 50 years.

    Ok, tell us how did you listen to what I have to say, or the entire time did you just think of ways to prove me wrong?

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Jan. 31, 2019 6:40 a.m.

    I agree.

    We ought to be more humble and listen to what contradicts our preconcieved notions. And admit to ourselves that we may not have all the facts we need to form an opinion.

    This attitude must extend to all issues, not just those political. It is always wise to walk in another's shoes just to understand why that person reacts. And actually has little to do with whether one considers themselves a Liberal or a Conservative. A Believer or a Skeptic. Or any other like difference.

    Let's just see what the criticism of such a virtue as humility comes out to find out more why people are seemingly stuck in the cocoon of their own making.