Utahns rally against changes to Proposition 3

Return To Article
Add a comment
  • RedShirtHarvard Cambridge, MA
    Jan. 30, 2019 3:03 p.m.

    To "ConservativeCommonTater" congress has already threatened to cut Medicaid funding. Read up on the American Health Care Act (AHCA) from 2017. It would cut spending on Medicaid. What do you think happens to the 90% that the Feds promised when their funding is cut? Do you honestly think that they will keep funding up if their overall budget is cut?

    No speculation, that was what has already been attempted, and could become a reality whenever the government realizes that they don't have unlimited funds to spend.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 30, 2019 2:02 p.m.

    RedShirt - USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 11:43 a.m.
    To "ConservativeCommonTater " so basically, you don't want to consider what happens when an administration comes in and decides to pull that 90% out from the funding.

    "Asking what happens when Federal Funding is cut off should be the first question asked whenever the we get money from them."

    More right wing paranoid speculation. When has there ever been a comment by the Feds about ending Medicaid? Right wing radio, Hannity, Rush, Beck, Breitbart?

    You Speculate on something with no data to back up your speculation. But, you ask what happens "IF" the Feds cut off Medicaid to Utah...that's simple, Utah cuts off ALL Medicaid to everyone within the state. In the mean time, you don't want the poor to have coverage at a very affordable cost to the state. Is that part of the good christian values Utah demonstrates, or the work of "compassionate conservatives?"

  • RedShirtHarvard Cambridge, MA
    Jan. 30, 2019 7:25 a.m.

    To "one old man " I have done that, plus I read the news articles and studies coming out of other nations.

    Lets look at England, and their system that has removed profit from it. There they often run out of hospital beds. They also regularly misdiagnose problems because of a lack of equipment. They have been known to leave people in ambulances for hours, waiting for ER space to open up. They delay medications because of a lack of availability. They deny some people treatment.

    If you want to look at Canada, look no further than the countless studies that they constantly are performing trying to figure out how to reduce the number of deaths due to wait lists. You an also look at the number of people in outside of the larger provinces that suffer for a lack of care.

    Tell us, where is the perfect system? I bet you only look at the surface, which seems good until you actually research the problems there.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 8:27 p.m.

    RedShirt - USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 2:19 p.m.
    To "one old man" but removing profit from the Health Care system doesn't improve anything. In nearly every nation where profit is removed, the system is WORSE. Removing profit doesn't make things better.

    =====

    The only answer to a comment like that is the truth -- the claim made there is completely FALSE. Ask people who live in those countries. They will tell you an entirely different story than the ones told by people who support the mess that is American health care.

    And why does anyone support our mess?

    Two reasons:
    1) They are making money from it in some way.
    2) Or they have been fooled into believing propaganda fostered by the folks in Reason 1.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 4:53 p.m.

    Legislative action is required – the proposition did not provide sufficient funding for the ill-advised expansion. It did raise taxes, but not enough. Voters passed it with a certain level of increased taxes, not with the level of increased taxes required to pay for it.

    Bryce Anderson expressed frustration saying we should give health care to our most impoverished people. We already do under regular medicare.

    Most states that expanded have seen LESS availability of health care to the most poor.

    Those who believe health care is a right are incorrect. Health care must be provided, requiring someone else provide it. Rights do not need providers – they may need protectors, but not providers.

    Promethues
    What local religions provide no help to the poor?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 2:19 p.m.

    To "one old man" but removing profit from the Health Care system doesn't improve anything. In nearly every nation where profit is removed, the system is WORSE. Removing profit doesn't make things better.

    How about this for another bit of fact. The Health Insurance Industry is the the most heavily regulated system. If you don't like it, it isn't because the companies are evil, but because they are so regulated they can barely move before they get hit with some regulation.

    To "GBH" that would be very bad because we could enact one law now through voter initiative, then find out later it was a bad idea. Then, the only way to remove it would be voter initiative. Not exactly the most efficient way to fix a bad law.

  • GBH , 00
    Jan. 29, 2019 1:32 p.m.

    We need to amend the Utah Constitution to say the Legislature can’t repeal, revise, replace, or amend voter approved provisions of propositions, referenda, or initiatives without a two-thirds vote of both houses of the Legislature.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 1:19 p.m.

    Even under Obama it was planned that the federal funding to states for Medicaid was going to gradually decline. A clever scheme where states get suckered into "expanding Medicaid" with 90% and then get stuck paying more in the future.

    It is incomprehensible how the federal government can continue to fund all the "free stuff" programs at current levels as our debt continues to grow, already past $22 Trillion with no possible way to even cap it at that level let alone pay it back. There is simply no money to pay for all this "free stuff."

    Laws enacted by referendum are a horrible way to run a state (see California for proof). They enact popular ideas, but absent any understanding of how they mesh with all other programs, spending and laws.

    Thank goodness we have a pretty good legislature which can look at this calmly and understanding long term implications. It may not be as satisfying to emotional pleas for "more free stuff" but it is a much better way to ensure that well managed government services can continue at affordable tax levels.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 1:02 p.m.

    The REAL problem with American health care is that it's a For Profit Business Scheme.

    It's a system that vacuums up tons of money from American families and pours the dollars into pockets of investors (usually wealthy) and pockets of health care executives (really, really wealthy) and leaves the rest of us with whatever is left over.

    Remember this: The AVERAGE pay package of an American pharmaceutical company, hospital chain, or health insurance company Chief Executive is $66,000 PER DAY !

    How many prescriptions, nights in hospital or ER visits, or family insurance premiums are needed to pay for those obscene paychecks?

    Consider this, too: The health industry has nearly twice as many lobbyists in Washington and state Capitols as any other major American industry.

    The fact is that Medicare For All would be less expensive for all of us.

    Think about it. Think about it and look at the facts instead of political propaganda.

  • Opinionated Sandy, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 11:57 a.m.

    RE: ConservativeCommonTater:
    Quit bashing a religious organization. I would like you to tell us of another religious organization that comes to the aid of poor and down-trodden around the globe more than the one you reference.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 11:43 a.m.

    To "ConservativeCommonTater " so basically, you don't want to consider what happens when an administration comes in and decides to pull that 90% out from the funding.

    Asking what happens when Federal Funding is cut off should be the first question asked whenever the we get money from them.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 10:44 a.m.

    RedShirt - USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 10:05 a.m.
    "To "ConservativeCommonTater" and what happens when the Feds decide that they don't want to pay their 90%?"

    "The other question is where does that 90% come from? eventually all of the overspending will come due."

    That is a lot of speculation on your part about the Feds not paying their part of Medicaid. Where did you get that info, AM radio, Faux Noise, or did you make it up?

    Next comment; since you are against Medicaid, who do you think subsidizes YOUR healthcare insurance? Taxpayers would be the correct answer. Just as they would do for Medicaid. Why do you get subsidized coverage when you want to deny it to others?

    If you pay for it yourself, you get the tax deduction, thus, a subsidy. If your employer pays your insurance and you pay part, you both get tax deductions, aka "subsidized healthcare."

    If you have no healthcare and go to a hospital ER and don't pay, guess who pays for your healthcare...yup, taxpayers.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 10:05 a.m.

    To "ConservativeCommonTater" and what happens when the Feds decide that they don't want to pay their 90%?

    The other question is where does that 90% come from? eventually all of the overspending will come due.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 9:36 a.m.

    IJ - Hyrum, Ut
    Jan. 29, 2019 7:48 a.m.

    "I would really like to hear their (the legislature's) side of the story. Unless this is unconstitutional they have an obligation in implement it. I have a problem with free health care for all - it is just one more step towards socialism; the legislature needs to implemnt this as it is not unconstitutional and the people want it."

    Ahh, the dog whistle word; "socialism" is thrown out as a defense against...? Schools are socialism, as are police, fire, roads, etc, but the right wing associates it with Venezuela instead of Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, etc. which all have a higher standard of living than the U.S.

    Then, there is the usual Utah constitutional scholar opinion talking about something that has nothing to do with the Constitution. Medicaid is not covered by the Constitution.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 9:08 a.m.

    Opinionated - Sandy, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 6:55 a.m.

    "sigh...again...The legislature has every right to modify or completely disregard an initiative vote. Their job is to take what voters voted for, understand what they want, then try to make that work within the confines of government. This article does not discuss the legislatures concerns. I kind of would like to hear their side of the story."

    The legislature's side of the argument is that they don't want to spend tax money to help people. They are 90% Mormon Republicans who don't have a history of helping the poor. If this was something for the wealthy, they would be gleeful.

    The state has overtaxed us by $1.3 BILLION (the surplus) and has an $832 MILLION "rainy day fund" and they are planning to raise even more taxes.

    Utah would only pay 10% of the Medicaid costs, the hated Feds would pay 90%.

    The argument about it not being affordable would be a complete lie that the straight party voters would believe.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 8:26 a.m.

    "Their job is to take what voters voted for, understand what they want, then try to make that work within the confines of government."

    The trouble, however, is that government is too often confined because there are some very wealthy people out there who have purchased the services of our legislators and use them to protect their continued wealth.

    As a result, the rest of us are often left out of the picture.

    As long as voters are gullible enough to believe propaganda designed to fool them into voting for law makers whose allegiance is not to their constituents, nothing will change.

    Voters need to wise up and actively work to become better educated before we vote.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 8:09 a.m.

    If they really want changes they need to vote the self serving only republicans out.

    They don't care what Utahn's think or want , they know better.

    They are proposing the largest tax cut ever for Utahn's but can't spend money on our sick and poor.

    The religions who pay no taxes sure can't afford to help the sick, so society should step up, but in the GOP, everyman is an island and can lift themselves up by their bootstraps, or why don't they just get a loan?

    Pathetic leadership, pathetic excuses, vote them all out for a better Utah.

  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    Jan. 29, 2019 7:48 a.m.

    I would really like to hear their (the legislature's) side of the story. Unless this is unconstitutional they have an obligation in implement it. I have a problem with free health care for all - it is just one more step towards socialism; it is the Robin Hood effect: steal from those who worked for what they have and give to those who won't. I agree there are those who should be helped by society - those who can't work, those who are trying but have yet to get to a place where they can get insurance; but those who are content to sit and do nothing deserve what they get. All that being said - the legislature needs to implemnt this as it is not unconstitutional and the people want it.

  • Opinionated Sandy, UT
    Jan. 29, 2019 6:55 a.m.

    sigh...again...we do not live in a democracy...we live in a democratic republic. The legislature has every right to modify or completely disregard an initiative vote. Their job is to take what voters voted for, understand what they want, then try to make that work within the confines of government. Seldom will an initiative be implemented without alteration. This article does not discuss the legislatures concerns. I kind of would like to hear their side of the story.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Jan. 28, 2019 10:55 p.m.

    It is a balancing act, we have great economy in Utah due to little social services, and if we beef up the social services, the world moves here and the economy takes a hit and once you give people something, it is hard to take it back. Allow 18 year olds to enter medical school and law school out of high school, and let us discourage undergrad schools, and then we will have more doctors, of course we don't need any more lawyers, so let us close down law schools. College professors can work at Wal-Mart and Mcdonalds, most college courses are worth $20. The states with many free services, have poor economy and few jobs. On the other hand, legislature has to listen to the people, or half million people come to the capitol with pitch forks. And then there is the other small truth that nobody will live forever, and we can't extend life forever.