Utah lawmaker proposes one of nation's strictest abortion laws

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  • MacD slc, UT
    Feb. 7, 2019 12:34 a.m.

    New York did not get it right.
    I am fine with a woman controlling
    her body until the baby is viable.
    Once the baby can live outside the womb
    how can we allow the mother to end the baby's life?

  • BJMoose Syracuse, UT
    Jan. 27, 2019 10:01 a.m.

    The state of New York got it right. What is proposed in Utah is nothing but an grevious overreach of a woman’s right to make a medical decision affecting her and only her.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 27, 2019 9:44 a.m.

    With the new Supreme Court that is and is likely about to be, this bill if it becomes law might actually stand a chance.

  • Golden Rules Okay, OK
    Jan. 23, 2019 9:29 p.m.

    Any laws that require a woman to contribute to a child's health and well-being when she doesn't want to should also include laws that require fathers to provide some sort of support to the child as well. DNA testing makes this possible.

  • MK52 Arlington, VA
    Jan. 23, 2019 8:42 p.m.

    These are very thoughtful and sincere comments. What always crosses my mind with these controversial issues is What do I really want from my government, whether state or federal? For all the talk, we all make our own decisions. So what needs to be legislated? Speed limits, driving while drunk or under the influence of drugs and other criminal matters? These things which have an impact on all of us need to be legislated. But there is no law in the world which will prevent or stop someone from acting a certain way. What is the limit to what should be legislated? I have no idea. But some decisions are so private and sensitive that we must be cautious of interference.

  • bassoonlady OREM, UT
    Jan. 23, 2019 3:23 p.m.

    @ranch
    I have no say in what any individual woman chooses, but i do have a say in the broader social issue, just as you do.
    It seems to me that abortion is a bandaid that keeps us from addressing the root. As long as a woman can make the problem disappear to everyone else, it never existed, and we don't have to address it.
    Why are women having unwanted pregnancies in the first place? It's not just birth control.
    Yes, we need better education about birth control. But we also need to destygmatize mental and emotional health care. We need to promote respect between the sexes. And we need to have more support for women instead of rushing them off to the place where 'their problems can just disappear'. Abortion doesn't fix the problem. It just allows society to ignore it.
    We feed ourselves lies that abortion is a choice, that it empowers women, and that it doesn't hurt. We justify it b/c the human killed is only a fetus, since it makes the problems go away. It doesn't.
    Probably, most women who abort feel like they don't have a choice, many because they don't know about the resources that are available.
    Minding my own business closes information exchange, and that is not choice.

  • durwood kirby , 00
    Jan. 23, 2019 11:08 a.m.

    I grow weary of the soldiers on either side of the issue who want to force their perspective into the lawbooks. It would be nice if citizens could simply be offered an unbiased collection of media on the matter from a source that could be trusted to do just that.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 23, 2019 6:18 a.m.

    @bassoonlady;

    Some more false assumptions:
    1. That you have a say in whether or not another woman must carry a pregnancy to term.
    2. Fetuses are "children". They're not, they're fetuses - often no more than a clump of cells.
    3. It is any of your business.

  • caleby Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 10:23 p.m.

    Best pro life book you'll ever read without trying to be a pro life book is, "The Waiting" by Cathy Lagrow. It's about her grandmother who became pregnant as a result of rape in 1928. What follows is one of the most heartwarming stories of love, forgiveness, and living a noble life. We need to stop yellling at each other and start loving each other instead.

  • bassoonlady OREM, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 4:42 p.m.

    Some false assumptions here.
    1. Because some children starve/suffer it's ok to kill other children.
    2. Opposing abortions means not caring about those already born, especially if you also oppose the government playing the roles that charities, churches, families, and individuals would otherwise play.
    3. Abortion is centered around a women's own choice for her body, even tho most women who choose it feel like they have no other choice.
    4. Abortion clinics count as the advice of a health practitioner.
    5. Because the baby can't survive on its own, is ok to kill it even tho it will be able to survive on its own in just a few months.
    But,
    The one thing that I find most odd is that every single reason, including rape, for abortions would be condemned in every way if the child had been born. Would you kill a newborn because other children starve? Would you kill a newborn because the mother wants to focus on her other children, or she broke up with the father, or couldn't afford child care, or couldn't handle the physical and emotional strain of raising children, or because they are cognitively impaired?
    Does developmental age really determine whether a person's life is worth saving?

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 1:40 p.m.

    @stand;

    Do you want to know what "disrespect to the sanctity of life" looks like?

    Starving children; in the USA, there are thousands of children who go hungry each day and especially on the weekends when they don't get a lunch at school.

    People dying for want of basic medical care.

    If you truly valued the "sanctity of life" you would be as concerned for the life AFTER it pops out of the womb as you are while it's in there.

    No woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy that SHE doesn't want to carry; no matter her reasons, they're HER reasons and neither you nor I have any say in them.

  • Furry1993 MSC, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 12:24 p.m.

    @stand up for truth - Jan. 22, 2019 10:30 a.m.
    @Ranch - Here, UT "Another conservative attempt to put women back in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant."

    Such comments as the above shows such disrespect to the sanctity of life. Why do those who pretend they are champion women's rights ignore the little woman child within the womb whose life is snuffed out, all in the name of "rights"?
    -----

    Actually it's not. It says nothing to address the "sanctity of life"--it doesn't address that in any way. It merely addresses the fact that the easiest way to assert mastery and control over a woman is to take away her ability to control her reproduction.

    For the record, women are not broodmares. We have the sole right to determine when, or if, we will be pregnant. If you want to eliminate abortion, then work to eliminate the cause of abortion -- unwanted pregnancy. Advocate for comprehensive age-appropriate sex education (abstinence-plus, not abstinence-only) and for low-cost or (better) no-cost effective contraception (not just condoms). Make sure dominating men understand that the woman, not they, have the right to decide when it is time to gestate a pregnancy. Problem solved.

  • stand up for truth Lehi, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 10:30 a.m.

    @Ranch - Here, UT "Another conservative attempt to put women back in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant."

    Such comments as the above shows such disrespect to the sanctity of life. Why do those who pretend they are champion women's rights ignore the little woman child within the womb whose life is snuffed out, all in the name of "rights"?

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 9:09 a.m.

    Another conservative attempt to put women back in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant.

    Also, another HUGE waste of taxpayer money to defend this Unconstitutional bill. Note to Utah Lawmakers, MYOB!

  • Rebekeh Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 2:42 p.m.

    @readme

    You never met a woman who was happy she had an abortion? It might be because they don't make that decision with a smile on their face. It's not a happy go lucky time, you know? The reasons for making that decision are more often than not heartbreaking.

    Your comment makes me wonder how many women with terminated pregnancies you've met. It's possible you've met women who don't even share that information with you. I know I wouldn't.

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    Jan. 21, 2019 2:21 p.m.

    @TheRealDJT , you took issue with Marxist's comment that "Sex is often not voluntary on the part of women. " When a man refuses to use a condom, what do you expect his wife /partner to do? You can simply say she should refuse to have sex. That's a whole lot easier said than done, particularly if she is intimidated by the man. She may not consider it rape but I assure you that the ensuing sex without contraception was not voluntary on her part.

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    Jan. 21, 2019 1:27 p.m.

    Could this be the same Senator Lee who has consistently voted against Medicaid funding, against early childhood education, against HUD programs, against educational spending, against anything that might possibly make it easier for a woman to carry a pregnancy to term?

    You want to vilify Planned Parenthood? Please tell me what you are thinking of how you could ensure that there was never another unplanned and unwanted pregnancy. Write your state and federal representatives and tell them to pass laws which set up free, government funded family planning clinics.

  • Furry1993 MSC, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 1:18 p.m.

    I don't like the idea of abortion, which can be seen in the fact that I tried to gestate six very risky pregnancies, four of which resulted in spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) by hemorrhage in mid-second-trimester. The two that gestated to completion also hemorrhaged, but the doctor was able to stop the bleeding and they resulted in two live births. I not only talked the talk, I walked the walk on this issue.

    That being said, there is only one person who is entitled to determine what happens with her pregnancy -- the pregnant woman. It is her choice, and hers only, whether to gestate or terminate the pregnancy. Nobody else's. She is the one who puts her life at serious risk to gestate a pregnancy; she is the one who has the right to decide whether to continue it.

    The way to lessen or eliminate abortion is to control the cause of abortion -- unwanted pregnancy. Provide comprehensive (not just abstinence-only) sex education for all children using age-appropriate materials, and provide low-cost or (better) no-cost contraception for all men and women. Strongly encourage that the contraception be used by everyone who doesn't want to start a pregnancy. Problem solved.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    Jan. 21, 2019 1:00 p.m.

    TheRealDJT - Sandy, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:28 a.m.

    @RiDal quoted Marxist, who said, "Sex is often not voluntary on the part of women. " and replied:

    "In a study of women's reasons for wanting to have an abortion, "rape, incest, and health problems for the mother" all combined accounted for about 1% of the self-reported reasons.

    73% of the self-reported reasons were simply for "the convenience of the mother".

    No, 73% of women did not use the word "convenience". That's a term coined by anti-abortion folk. Here are reaons which are a lot more accurate:

    1. Relationship with husband / boyfriend is uncertain , or already broken up

    2. Can't afford child care (which costs a minimum of $500 a month

    3. Boyfriend is out of work

    4. Boyfriend is married to somebody else

    5. Living paycheck to paycheck, and employer does not provide paid leave, let alone subsidized child care.

    6. Boyfriend is violent and you fear he will take the child and run.

    7. In school pursuing a degree in the hopes of being able to support yourself and kids you already have.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 12:48 p.m.

    Leftists why not just accept the genocidal policies that are the foundation of Planned Parenthood abortion industry. Maybe next you could advocate the killing of children up to the age of five. Oh wait, yes it has been proposed by advocates of abortion. Reason, society has no right to determine the financial hardship of a family.
    Next Action T4 for releasing funds for universal health care. The Greek word “euthanasia” (literally: good death). Even here in the religious state of Utah it is being promoted.

    The left is as guilty as any one else that decides to forcefully euthanize patients who they deem are “unworthy of life”.

  • readme Provo, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 11:58 a.m.

    Never met a woman who was happy she had an abortion nor an aborted baby who had a choice.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 11:45 a.m.

    @TheRealDJT "In a study of women's reasons for wanting to have an abortion, "rape, incest, and health problems for the mother" all combined accounted for about 1% of the self-reported reasons. "

    You don't address the nature of the relationship between a woman and an intimate partner. Is it an equal relationship? Almost always NOT.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 11:15 a.m.

    How often have Republicans been in charge, nationally, or locally since 1973? How many times have they been able to change the laws?

    This woman is just posturing for her constituents. She knows that this is just another Mormon Republican "Message Bill" that will be shot down as unconstitutional. But, it doesn't matter. it's not her money she's gambling with.

    For those people that are against abortion, don't have one. But, don't presume to make health and medical decisions for others.

    For men against abortion, shut up, you have no say in what a woman does with her health and her body.

  • Rebekeh Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:49 a.m.

    @therealDJT

    You cite that 73% of abortions are strictly for the mother's convenience. You don't know that. Health of the mother, rape, incest are valid reasons to terminate a pregnancy. But there are other valid reasons too. Just because you do not know what those reasons are, doesn't mean they don't exist.

    If you are bothered by the notion that abortion is perhaps just another form of birth control, why don't you spend your efforts increasing funding for comprehensive sex education and access to birth control?

  • readme Provo, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:43 a.m.

    Almost 61 million abortions in the United States since 1973's Roe vs Wade.

  • Lester L. Wester , 00
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:40 a.m.

    I abhor aboration as a means of birth control. However, it should never be my place, or anyone else's, to interfere with a woman's personal choice in this matter. Stay out of it.

  • TheRealDJT Sandy, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:28 a.m.

    @Marxist:
    "Sex is often not voluntary on the part of women. "

    In a study of women's reasons for wanting to have an abortion, "rape, incest, and health problems for the mother" all combined accounted for about 1% of the self-reported reasons.

    73% of the self-reported reasons were simply for "the convenience of the mother".
    This data is easily googled.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:29 a.m.

    Proud of Utah!

  • JWL Seattle, WA
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:27 a.m.

    "When might we reasonably say that personhood begins? A starting point that is far more consistent with the facts of biology is not conception but the emergence of the human brain. We declare persons dead when their brains have lost the capacity to govern the core functions necessary for life—breathing, excretion, and the like. When a fetus has developed a brain that can support its basic biological functions, probably at around six months of life, it can be reasonably argued that personhood has begun."  A. Caplan, bioethicist

    You can have your religious beliefs but I have my own religious beliefs.  Ending an unwanted pregnancy at 13 weeks or 20 weeks is a moral act if there is failure of birth control and the couple is not able to care for a child or if rape is involved or if the mother's life is endangered.  Roe v. Wade is a reasonable compromise, given differing religious beliefs on when human life and human personhood begin. 

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:26 a.m.

    In my humble opinion I think it is the choice of the woman! No questions asked.

    My other question is what is Utah trying to accomplish with their tough laws on alcohol, medical MJ and now abortion?

  • Rebekeh Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:14 a.m.

    It sounds like Ms. Acton needs to keep learning. As for Lee, abortion is not evil. It is a medical procedure that saves existing lives. Once these politicians figure out how to treat the currently living with ethical decency and compassion, I may better hear their concerns for the unborn.

  • Laura Billington Maple Valley, WA
    Jan. 21, 2019 9:55 a.m.

    Grammy3 wrote,

    "my daughter .. wanted children but could not have any. She tried to adopt but it is expensive and unless you have a lot of money one goes without and yearns to be a mother. "

    What are you talking about?

    Ten of my fourteen kids were adopted and there were no charges at all for most of them. Right this minute, there are 59 kids Utah kids listed on adoptuskids and another 64 on The Adoption Exchange". That's in Utah alone--there are thousands more in the rest of the US.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Jan. 21, 2019 9:44 a.m.

    What is so hypocritical is that it is mainly the anti abortion activists who are the ones shutting down the planned parenthood programs and policies restricting women's access to contraceptives to prevent pregnancies. If they don't want women getting abortions then they should support women not getting pregnant. The worst are the unreasonable disconnected from reality religious extremist who believe woman should not have sex to avoid pregnancy.

  • Cora Smith BOUNTIFUL, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 9:38 a.m.

    According to Unicef, over 25,000 children, not including teens and adults are dying every single day from starvation. And these folk are worried about a woman's awful choice to have an abortion?
    I don't like the idea of abortion, but I don't want to take a woman's choice away for her if she doesn't want to bring a child to this filthy and overcrowded earth. She is making a choice that is painful. That choice is between the mother, her doctor and her God.

    Are there any laws on the books preventing men from making choices?

    Start taking care of the living breathing children who suffer and die daily first. Remember 25,000 a day, plus teens and adults. Why don't these anti abortionists rally for the living?

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 9:12 a.m.

    @Bill B "Use birth control or don’t have sex."

    By this I assume you mean "you women, don't have sex." But you know what, it takes two to make a pregnancy. Sex is often not voluntary on the part of women.

    So we have these draconian proposals against abortion without ever asking why women seek abortions. Aren't you curious at all?

    Abortion is an outgrowth of the corrupt relationship between the sexes, the power relationship between the sexes.

  • Thomas Thompson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 8:53 a.m.

    "Mississippi last year passed a 15-week abortion law, with exceptions for medical emergency or severe fetal abnormality, but a federal judge blocked it. The Utah law would likely face a court challenge were it to pass." If the Utah law is based upon Mississippi's 15-week limit, it is very unlikely to be validated by the federal court here in Utah.

  • Bill-B Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 8:31 a.m.

    I hope the State stands tough. Abortion is a horrible birth control. Women have a right to take care of them self but what about babies? Use birth control or don’t have sex.

  • All American Herriman, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 8:31 a.m.

    I just can't understand how anyone, with good conscience, can equate abortion, which is murder, to health care.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 8:28 a.m.

    I sure wish legislators had to pay for these emotionally satisfying but enormously expensive and predictably unconstitutional message bills, instead of sticking the taxpayers with the legal bill.

  • quackquack Park City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 8:24 a.m.

    Is Cheryl Acton going to pay for these babies, cloth,feed them and raise them till their 18? Most women who abort babies due to their circumstances. Unless you force all people to live a live of abstinence ( of which is not possible ) unwanted pregnancies are going to happen.

    Taking away a women's a choice is not a the answer

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 8:22 a.m.

    Jail isn't the answer. What will be the punishment? That is for churches to decided, not lawmakers. There are worse penalties than jail. Let us be clear, Utah congressional delegation has never said a woman should go to jail, so there is no difference between the two parties on the legality of abortion. It is wrong, yet both parties are the same on the penalty and legality of this. Both parties believe it should be legal.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 8:12 a.m.

    I wish we would focus as much attention on preventing unwanted pregnancies and supporting other options for these women rather than doing the feel good, immediate gratification solution of yet again trying to in very vailed attempt to ban abortions.

    I absolutely condemn abortions. I am the result of an unwanted pregnancy many years ago. I absolutely have the deepest respect for those who choose to take the alternative to abortion. That said, once you get to the point of having to make that horrible decision for abortion, you are simply choosing what color bandaid you want to paste on the problem rather than taking serious the task of keeping these woman from having to make such a draconian decision.

    Utah is in love with passing laws making choice illegal. These laws are about as pointless as making suicide illegal. Focusing on preventing the problem in the first place, helping make decisions in advance, and providing resources for people keep them out of these situations is far more effective... then voting on what kind of bandaid you will use once its too late.

  • readme Provo, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 7:57 a.m.

    If the human family universally accepts the commandment or accepted principle to not kill, then who but God is qualified to decide at what day in a pregnancy is abortion murder? Who protects the rights of the unborn?

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 7:44 a.m.

    NoNamesAccepted said: "I think anyone who supports Utah and other States breaking with federal law on marijuana has to also support the State setting up a test on a 40 year old bad federal court ruling."

    A false dichotomy, but the far right conservatives on the radio are great at spouting these to there fans.

  • JWL Seattle, WA
    Jan. 21, 2019 7:29 a.m.

    92% of abortions occur at

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 7:21 a.m.

    I hope the voters send her packing next election along with anyone else who votes for this.

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 6:21 a.m.

    While I agree that states have the right (even to f illcomcieved) to try to pass laws that they believe fit within the federal constitutional rights I think you barrell is less then perfect as one pushes back against federal laws that restrict people’s rights and the other seeks to further restrict people’s rights. So I agree the state has the right to try to pass such laws but that does not mean I cannot still oppose the law on the grounds that I believe it to be overly restrictive.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 6:16 a.m.

    This is not good public policy. Abortion is legal and some constraints are reasonable, but quasi-illegalization is rightfully doomed to failure.

  • readme Provo, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 6:11 a.m.

    Aborting federal rulings was and still can be the right of these United States. Limited powers as defined in the U.S. Constitution was not designed to establish federal judges that control the states' individuality and the people's right to establish laws according to their beliefs of right vs wrong.

  • Utefan60 , 00
    Jan. 21, 2019 5:50 a.m.

    Here we go again. A law to restrict the legal right of a woman to make decisions for her own body with the help of her physician.

    I always wondered if men could get pregnant if there would be a different attitude?

    Why is it that right wing so called "conservatives" claim to be pro life, when in fact they are only "pro birth". After that they could care less about the life of a child. If they did, we would have universal health care, and health care for expectant mothers. They would also stop attacking the largest woman's health care system in the nation, Planned Parenthood.

    I have my own opinions on abortion, but it is never going to be my right to tell any woman and her health care professional what to do with their her body.

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    Jan. 21, 2019 5:35 a.m.

    "The Utah law would likely face a court challenge were it to pass."

    Of course, it would. The Democrat/abortion industrial complex would scream like a banshee.

    "Minority Assistant Whip Angela Romero, D-Salt Lake City, quickly condemned Acton's proposal."

    My point has been made.

  • Grammy3 Riverton, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 12:35 a.m.

    As a mother who's daughter was never able to have any children I get upset when I hear about these women who are so selfish and do not want to ruin their lives because of an unwanted pregnancy feel that having an abortion is the only answer. I believe in certain cases that Abortion is right (like the health of the mother or in rape or incest) but to have one just because you got pregnant to me is totally wrong. There are so many people out there that want to adopt and have children that one never knows just how painful that is to someone like my daughter who wanted children but could not have any. She tried to adopt but it is expensive and unless you have a lot of money one goes without and yearns to be a mother. This is my thinking and I would like to see laws that only allow an Abortion with those things that I just mentioned. But we live in a World where not to many people like me feel the like I do. I feel that life begins at conception.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 7:59 p.m.

    I think anyone who supports Utah and other States breaking with federal law on marijuana has to also support the State setting up a test on a 40 year old bad federal court ruling.

    Thank heaven someone was willing to challenge bad precedence set in the Dred Scott and Plessey cases.

    One cannot, with any intellectual honesty, support States rights on marijuana and then oppose it on elective abortion.

    Diversity of State law om these matters would reduce conflict nationwide as no State would have another's culture being imposed on it. Utah passing strict limits on elective abortions, bans on gambling and prostitution, and legalizing medical use of marijuana doesn't force Nevada, Cali, or NY to alter their culture at all. And since none of these matters are delegated to congress in the constitution, the States should be free to handle them as they like.

    Or, we can wait for an ever more right wing supreme court to impose conservative values nationwide for our liberal friends to discover the virtue of federalism.

  • Morgan Duel Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 7:24 p.m.

    “Abortion is evil; but so is indifference. Human dignity impels us to transcend both— not merely by changing laws, but by changing hearts, starting with our own," Senator Lee that is a great statement!!

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 6:32 p.m.

    Utah lawmakers need to post 2 million dollar personal bonds for each law that they bring to the floor. That way, they will pay the costs to defend unconstitutional laws, instead of us taxpayers.

  • jpc53 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 6:16 p.m.

    Didn't SCOTUS say abortions were legal for any reason in the 1st Trimester? I think 15 weeks is in the 1st Trimester.