New York did not get it right.I am fine with a woman controllingher
body until the baby is viable. Once the baby can live outside the wombhow can we allow the mother to end the baby's life?
The state of New York got it right. What is proposed in Utah is nothing but an
grevious overreach of a woman’s right to make a medical decision affecting
her and only her.
With the new Supreme Court that is and is likely about to be, this bill if it
becomes law might actually stand a chance.
Any laws that require a woman to contribute to a child's health and
well-being when she doesn't want to should also include laws that require
fathers to provide some sort of support to the child as well. DNA testing
makes this possible.
These are very thoughtful and sincere comments. What always crosses my mind with
these controversial issues is What do I really want from my government, whether
state or federal? For all the talk, we all make our own decisions. So what
needs to be legislated? Speed limits, driving while drunk or under the influence
of drugs and other criminal matters? These things which have an impact on all
of us need to be legislated. But there is no law in the world which will
prevent or stop someone from acting a certain way. What is the limit to what
should be legislated? I have no idea. But some decisions are so private and
sensitive that we must be cautious of interference.
@ranchI have no say in what any individual woman chooses, but i do have a
say in the broader social issue, just as you do.It seems to me that
abortion is a bandaid that keeps us from addressing the root. As long as a
woman can make the problem disappear to everyone else, it never existed, and we
don't have to address it.Why are women having unwanted pregnancies in
the first place? It's not just birth control. Yes, we need better
education about birth control. But we also need to destygmatize mental and
emotional health care. We need to promote respect between the sexes. And we
need to have more support for women instead of rushing them off to the place
where 'their problems can just disappear'. Abortion doesn't fix
the problem. It just allows society to ignore it.We feed ourselves lies
that abortion is a choice, that it empowers women, and that it doesn't
hurt. We justify it b/c the human killed is only a fetus, since it makes the
problems go away. It doesn't. Probably, most women who abort feel
like they don't have a choice, many because they don't know about the
resources that are available.Minding my own business closes information
exchange, and that is not choice.
I grow weary of the soldiers on either side of the issue who want to force their
perspective into the lawbooks. It would be nice if citizens could simply be
offered an unbiased collection of media on the matter from a source that could
be trusted to do just that.
@bassoonlady;Some more false assumptions:1. That you have a
say in whether or not another woman must carry a pregnancy to term.2.
Fetuses are "children". They're not, they're fetuses - often
no more than a clump of cells.3. It is any of your business.
Best pro life book you'll ever read without trying to be a pro life book
is, "The Waiting" by Cathy Lagrow. It's about her grandmother who
became pregnant as a result of rape in 1928. What follows is one of the most
heartwarming stories of love, forgiveness, and living a noble life. We need to
stop yellling at each other and start loving each other instead.
Some false assumptions here.1. Because some children starve/suffer
it's ok to kill other children. 2. Opposing abortions means not
caring about those already born, especially if you also oppose the government
playing the roles that charities, churches, families, and individuals would
otherwise play.3. Abortion is centered around a women's own choice
for her body, even tho most women who choose it feel like they have no other
choice.4. Abortion clinics count as the advice of a health
practitioner.5. Because the baby can't survive on its own, is ok to
kill it even tho it will be able to survive on its own in just a few months. But,The one thing that I find most odd is that every single reason,
including rape, for abortions would be condemned in every way if the child had
been born. Would you kill a newborn because other children starve? Would you
kill a newborn because the mother wants to focus on her other children, or she
broke up with the father, or couldn't afford child care, or couldn't
handle the physical and emotional strain of raising children, or because they
are cognitively impaired?Does developmental age really determine whether a
person's life is worth saving?
@stand;Do you want to know what "disrespect to the sanctity of
life" looks like?Starving children; in the USA, there are
thousands of children who go hungry each day and especially on the weekends when
they don't get a lunch at school.People dying for want of basic
medical care.If you truly valued the "sanctity of life" you
would be as concerned for the life AFTER it pops out of the womb as you are
while it's in there.No woman should be forced to carry a
pregnancy that SHE doesn't want to carry; no matter her reasons,
they're HER reasons and neither you nor I have any say in them.
@stand up for truth - Jan. 22, 2019 10:30 a.m.@Ranch - Here, UT
"Another conservative attempt to put women back in the kitchen, barefoot and
pregnant."Such comments as the above shows such disrespect to
the sanctity of life. Why do those who pretend they are champion women's
rights ignore the little woman child within the womb whose life is snuffed out,
all in the name of "rights"?-----Actually it's
not. It says nothing to address the "sanctity of life"--it doesn't
address that in any way. It merely addresses the fact that the easiest way to
assert mastery and control over a woman is to take away her ability to control
her reproduction. For the record, women are not broodmares. We have
the sole right to determine when, or if, we will be pregnant. If you want to
eliminate abortion, then work to eliminate the cause of abortion -- unwanted
pregnancy. Advocate for comprehensive age-appropriate sex education
(abstinence-plus, not abstinence-only) and for low-cost or (better) no-cost
effective contraception (not just condoms). Make sure dominating men understand
that the woman, not they, have the right to decide when it is time to gestate a
pregnancy. Problem solved.
@Ranch - Here, UT "Another conservative attempt to put women back in the
kitchen, barefoot and pregnant."Such comments as the above shows
such disrespect to the sanctity of life. Why do those who pretend they are
champion women's rights ignore the little woman child within the womb whose
life is snuffed out, all in the name of "rights"?
Another conservative attempt to put women back in the kitchen, barefoot and
pregnant.Also, another HUGE waste of taxpayer money to defend this
Unconstitutional bill. Note to Utah Lawmakers, MYOB!
@readmeYou never met a woman who was happy she had an abortion? It
might be because they don't make that decision with a smile on their face.
It's not a happy go lucky time, you know? The reasons for making that
decision are more often than not heartbreaking.Your comment makes me
wonder how many women with terminated pregnancies you've met. It's
possible you've met women who don't even share that information with
you. I know I wouldn't.
@TheRealDJT , you took issue with Marxist's comment that "Sex is often
not voluntary on the part of women. " When a man refuses to use a condom,
what do you expect his wife /partner to do? You can simply say she should
refuse to have sex. That's a whole lot easier said than done, particularly
if she is intimidated by the man. She may not consider it rape but I assure
you that the ensuing sex without contraception was not voluntary on her part.
Could this be the same Senator Lee who has consistently voted against Medicaid
funding, against early childhood education, against HUD programs, against
educational spending, against anything that might possibly make it easier for a
woman to carry a pregnancy to term?You want to vilify Planned
Parenthood? Please tell me what you are thinking of how you could ensure that
there was never another unplanned and unwanted pregnancy. Write your state and
federal representatives and tell them to pass laws which set up free, government
funded family planning clinics.
I don't like the idea of abortion, which can be seen in the fact that I
tried to gestate six very risky pregnancies, four of which resulted in
spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) by hemorrhage in mid-second-trimester. The
two that gestated to completion also hemorrhaged, but the doctor was able to
stop the bleeding and they resulted in two live births. I not only talked the
talk, I walked the walk on this issue.That being said, there is only
one person who is entitled to determine what happens with her pregnancy -- the
pregnant woman. It is her choice, and hers only, whether to gestate or
terminate the pregnancy. Nobody else's. She is the one who puts her life
at serious risk to gestate a pregnancy; she is the one who has the right to
decide whether to continue it.The way to lessen or eliminate
abortion is to control the cause of abortion -- unwanted pregnancy. Provide
comprehensive (not just abstinence-only) sex education for all children using
age-appropriate materials, and provide low-cost or (better) no-cost
contraception for all men and women. Strongly encourage that the contraception
be used by everyone who doesn't want to start a pregnancy. Problem solved.
TheRealDJT - Sandy, UTJan. 21, 2019 10:28 a.m.@RiDal quoted
Marxist, who said, "Sex is often not voluntary on the part of women. "
and replied:"In a study of women's reasons for wanting to
have an abortion, "rape, incest, and health problems for the mother" all
combined accounted for about 1% of the self-reported reasons. 73% of
the self-reported reasons were simply for "the convenience of the
mother". No, 73% of women did not use the word
"convenience". That's a term coined by anti-abortion folk. Here
are reaons which are a lot more accurate:1. Relationship with
husband / boyfriend is uncertain , or already broken up2.
Can't afford child care (which costs a minimum of $500 a month3. Boyfriend is out of work4. Boyfriend is married to somebody
else5. Living paycheck to paycheck, and employer does not provide
paid leave, let alone subsidized child care.6. Boyfriend is violent
and you fear he will take the child and run.7. In school pursuing a
degree in the hopes of being able to support yourself and kids you already
Leftists why not just accept the genocidal policies that are the foundation of
Planned Parenthood abortion industry. Maybe next you could advocate the killing
of children up to the age of five. Oh wait, yes it has been proposed by
advocates of abortion. Reason, society has no right to determine the financial
hardship of a family. Next Action T4 for releasing funds for universal
health care. The Greek word “euthanasia” (literally: good death).
Even here in the religious state of Utah it is being promoted. The
left is as guilty as any one else that decides to forcefully euthanize patients
who they deem are “unworthy of life”.
Never met a woman who was happy she had an abortion nor an aborted baby who had
@TheRealDJT "In a study of women's reasons for wanting to have an
abortion, "rape, incest, and health problems for the mother" all
combined accounted for about 1% of the self-reported reasons. "You don't address the nature of the relationship between a woman and an
intimate partner. Is it an equal relationship? Almost always NOT.
How often have Republicans been in charge, nationally, or locally since 1973?
How many times have they been able to change the laws? This woman
is just posturing for her constituents. She knows that this is just another
Mormon Republican "Message Bill" that will be shot down as
unconstitutional. But, it doesn't matter. it's not her money
she's gambling with.For those people that are against
abortion, don't have one. But, don't presume to make health and
medical decisions for others.For men against abortion, shut up, you
have no say in what a woman does with her health and her body.
@therealDJTYou cite that 73% of abortions are strictly for the
mother's convenience. You don't know that. Health of the mother,
rape, incest are valid reasons to terminate a pregnancy. But there are other
valid reasons too. Just because you do not know what those reasons are,
doesn't mean they don't exist.If you are bothered by the
notion that abortion is perhaps just another form of birth control, why
don't you spend your efforts increasing funding for comprehensive sex
education and access to birth control?
Almost 61 million abortions in the United States since 1973's Roe vs Wade.
I abhor aboration as a means of birth control. However, it should never be my
place, or anyone else's, to interfere with a woman's personal choice
in this matter. Stay out of it.
@Marxist:"Sex is often not voluntary on the part of women. "In a study of women's reasons for wanting to have an abortion,
"rape, incest, and health problems for the mother" all combined
accounted for about 1% of the self-reported reasons. 73% of the
self-reported reasons were simply for "the convenience of the mother".
This data is easily googled.
Proud of Utah!
"When might we reasonably say that personhood begins? A starting point that
is far more consistent with the facts of biology is not conception but the
emergence of the human brain. We declare persons dead when their brains have
lost the capacity to govern the core functions necessary for
life—breathing, excretion, and the like. When a fetus has developed a
brain that can support its basic biological functions, probably at around six
months of life, it can be reasonably argued that personhood has
begun." A. Caplan, bioethicistYou can have your religious
beliefs but I have my own religious beliefs. Ending an unwanted pregnancy
at 13 weeks or 20 weeks is a moral act if there is failure of birth control and
the couple is not able to care for a child or if rape is involved or if the
mother's life is endangered. Roe v. Wade is a reasonable compromise,
given differing religious beliefs on when human life and human personhood
In my humble opinion I think it is the choice of the woman! No questions asked.
My other question is what is Utah trying to accomplish with their
tough laws on alcohol, medical MJ and now abortion?
It sounds like Ms. Acton needs to keep learning. As for Lee, abortion is not
evil. It is a medical procedure that saves existing lives. Once these
politicians figure out how to treat the currently living with ethical decency
and compassion, I may better hear their concerns for the unborn.
Grammy3 wrote,"my daughter .. wanted children but could not have
any. She tried to adopt but it is expensive and unless you have a lot of money
one goes without and yearns to be a mother. "What are you
talking about?Ten of my fourteen kids were adopted and there were no
charges at all for most of them. Right this minute, there are 59 kids Utah kids
listed on adoptuskids and another 64 on The Adoption Exchange". That's
in Utah alone--there are thousands more in the rest of the US.
What is so hypocritical is that it is mainly the anti abortion activists who
are the ones shutting down the planned parenthood programs and policies
restricting women's access to contraceptives to prevent pregnancies. If
they don't want women getting abortions then they should support women not
getting pregnant. The worst are the unreasonable disconnected from reality
religious extremist who believe woman should not have sex to avoid pregnancy.
According to Unicef, over 25,000 children, not including teens and adults are
dying every single day from starvation. And these folk are worried about a
woman's awful choice to have an abortion? I don't like the idea
of abortion, but I don't want to take a woman's choice away for her if
she doesn't want to bring a child to this filthy and overcrowded earth. She
is making a choice that is painful. That choice is between the mother, her
doctor and her God. Are there any laws on the books preventing men
from making choices? Start taking care of the living breathing
children who suffer and die daily first. Remember 25,000 a day, plus teens and
adults. Why don't these anti abortionists rally for the living?
@Bill B "Use birth control or don’t have sex."By this
I assume you mean "you women, don't have sex." But you know what,
it takes two to make a pregnancy. Sex is often not voluntary on the part of
women. So we have these draconian proposals against abortion
without ever asking why women seek abortions. Aren't you curious at all?
Abortion is an outgrowth of the corrupt relationship between the
sexes, the power relationship between the sexes.
"Mississippi last year passed a 15-week abortion law, with exceptions for
medical emergency or severe fetal abnormality, but a federal judge blocked it.
The Utah law would likely face a court challenge were it to pass." If the
Utah law is based upon Mississippi's 15-week limit, it is very unlikely to
be validated by the federal court here in Utah.
I hope the State stands tough. Abortion is a horrible birth control. Women have
a right to take care of them self but what about babies? Use birth control or
don’t have sex.
I just can't understand how anyone, with good conscience, can equate
abortion, which is murder, to health care.
I sure wish legislators had to pay for these emotionally satisfying but
enormously expensive and predictably unconstitutional message bills, instead of
sticking the taxpayers with the legal bill.
Is Cheryl Acton going to pay for these babies, cloth,feed them and raise them
till their 18? Most women who abort babies due to their circumstances. Unless
you force all people to live a live of abstinence ( of which is not possible )
unwanted pregnancies are going to happen. Taking away a women's
a choice is not a the answer
Jail isn't the answer. What will be the punishment? That is for churches
to decided, not lawmakers. There are worse penalties than jail. Let us be
clear, Utah congressional delegation has never said a woman should go to jail,
so there is no difference between the two parties on the legality of abortion.
It is wrong, yet both parties are the same on the penalty and legality of this.
Both parties believe it should be legal.
I wish we would focus as much attention on preventing unwanted pregnancies and
supporting other options for these women rather than doing the feel good,
immediate gratification solution of yet again trying to in very vailed attempt
to ban abortions.I absolutely condemn abortions. I am the result of
an unwanted pregnancy many years ago. I absolutely have the deepest respect for
those who choose to take the alternative to abortion. That said, once you get
to the point of having to make that horrible decision for abortion, you are
simply choosing what color bandaid you want to paste on the problem rather than
taking serious the task of keeping these woman from having to make such a
draconian decision. Utah is in love with passing laws making choice
illegal. These laws are about as pointless as making suicide illegal.
Focusing on preventing the problem in the first place, helping make decisions in
advance, and providing resources for people keep them out of these situations is
far more effective... then voting on what kind of bandaid you will use once its
If the human family universally accepts the commandment or accepted principle to
not kill, then who but God is qualified to decide at what day in a pregnancy is
abortion murder? Who protects the rights of the unborn?
NoNamesAccepted said: "I think anyone who supports Utah and other States
breaking with federal law on marijuana has to also support the State setting up
a test on a 40 year old bad federal court ruling."A false
dichotomy, but the far right conservatives on the radio are great at spouting
these to there fans.
92% of abortions occur at
I hope the voters send her packing next election along with anyone else who
votes for this.
While I agree that states have the right (even to f illcomcieved) to try to pass
laws that they believe fit within the federal constitutional rights I think you
barrell is less then perfect as one pushes back against federal laws that
restrict people’s rights and the other seeks to further restrict
people’s rights. So I agree the state has the right to try to pass such
laws but that does not mean I cannot still oppose the law on the grounds that I
believe it to be overly restrictive.
This is not good public policy. Abortion is legal and some constraints are
reasonable, but quasi-illegalization is rightfully doomed to failure.
Aborting federal rulings was and still can be the right of these United States.
Limited powers as defined in the U.S. Constitution was not designed to establish
federal judges that control the states' individuality and the people's
right to establish laws according to their beliefs of right vs wrong.
Here we go again. A law to restrict the legal right of a woman to make decisions
for her own body with the help of her physician.I always wondered if
men could get pregnant if there would be a different attitude? Why
is it that right wing so called "conservatives" claim to be pro life,
when in fact they are only "pro birth". After that they could care less
about the life of a child. If they did, we would have universal health care, and
health care for expectant mothers. They would also stop attacking the largest
woman's health care system in the nation, Planned Parenthood. I
have my own opinions on abortion, but it is never going to be my right to tell
any woman and her health care professional what to do with their her body.
"The Utah law would likely face a court challenge were it to pass."Of course, it would. The Democrat/abortion industrial complex would
scream like a banshee."Minority Assistant Whip Angela Romero,
D-Salt Lake City, quickly condemned Acton's proposal."My
point has been made.
As a mother who's daughter was never able to have any children I get upset
when I hear about these women who are so selfish and do not want to ruin their
lives because of an unwanted pregnancy feel that having an abortion is the only
answer. I believe in certain cases that Abortion is right (like the health of
the mother or in rape or incest) but to have one just because you got pregnant
to me is totally wrong. There are so many people out there that want to adopt
and have children that one never knows just how painful that is to someone like
my daughter who wanted children but could not have any. She tried to adopt but
it is expensive and unless you have a lot of money one goes without and yearns
to be a mother. This is my thinking and I would like to see laws that only allow
an Abortion with those things that I just mentioned. But we live in a World
where not to many people like me feel the like I do. I feel that life begins at
I think anyone who supports Utah and other States breaking with federal law on
marijuana has to also support the State setting up a test on a 40 year old bad
federal court ruling.Thank heaven someone was willing to challenge
bad precedence set in the Dred Scott and Plessey cases.One cannot,
with any intellectual honesty, support States rights on marijuana and then
oppose it on elective abortion.Diversity of State law om these
matters would reduce conflict nationwide as no State would have another's
culture being imposed on it. Utah passing strict limits on elective abortions,
bans on gambling and prostitution, and legalizing medical use of marijuana
doesn't force Nevada, Cali, or NY to alter their culture at all. And since
none of these matters are delegated to congress in the constitution, the States
should be free to handle them as they like.Or, we can wait for an
ever more right wing supreme court to impose conservative values nationwide for
our liberal friends to discover the virtue of federalism.
“Abortion is evil; but so is indifference. Human dignity impels us to
transcend both— not merely by changing laws, but by changing hearts,
starting with our own," Senator Lee that is a great statement!!
Utah lawmakers need to post 2 million dollar personal bonds for each law that
they bring to the floor. That way, they will pay the costs to defend
unconstitutional laws, instead of us taxpayers.
Didn't SCOTUS say abortions were legal for any reason in the 1st Trimester?
I think 15 weeks is in the 1st Trimester.