Finally the Editorial Board speaks out about Coulter, the leader of the right
wing extremest's. However, they came up Sith the Great Medieval Wall and
the Donald ran with it.
"'We Build the Wall' is up to $20,603,133 with 348,400 people
donating. The wall is wanted and needed."Apparently not. That is
less than 4 tenths of 1% off the money needed. Doh!
Remind me one more time why Trump was proud to shut down the government over
Mexican funding for a border wall?
"We Build the Wall" is up to $20,603,133 with 348,400 people donating.
The wall is wanted and needed.
Why should 40 year old DACA recipients who have never gotten legal be allowed
amnesty? Will they still be able to qualify even when they have retired?They already get affirmative action. How many more benefits are they
going to get that legal US citizens do not get?
How do the private landowners in TX feel about giving up part of their land to
the federal govt for construction of a wall? How much will it cost
to maintain the wall? How much wall can actually be built for $6
I should be obvious to the DN that their editorial position lacks merit. Even
internal consistency.On reflection by now we all realize that the
President offered absolutely nothing. No compromise, little common sense. The
President expects everyone to accede to his wishes. And no one should trust
that he will even keep his word to follow through anyway.Shame on
the DN for putting out this kind of propaganda.
@2 bits"It's on McConnell, but Democrats haven't passed any
bills to open government."The Congressional record disagrees
with youHouse Resolution 5. Dated 1/3/2019House Resolution 28.
Dated 1/8/2019House Resolution 43. Dated 1/15/2019House Resolution
52. Dated 1/16/2019"IMO The House and Senate need to learn to
get along and vote on each other's bills"To date, the
Senate has not crafted any actual bills to pass the house for a vote. The House
however has passed numerous bills to the Senate for a vote, only to have
McConnell block a Senate vote on those bills.You can claims
it's "both sides" but the Democrats are the only ones actually
following the Constitutional responsibilities in getting legislation passed.
McConnell is either stalling or trying to protect Trump from actually having to
veto something for the first time in his Presidency.
common sense? nocompromise? no
Fact Check came out after Trump's speech and said that he falsified, lied
and misstated real facts every 34 seconds of that speech. That is a lot! The editorial said that there were errors and some falsehoods. No
kidding?Can't negotiate with someone who isn't honest in
the first place. The country is being held hostage. The GOP is
destroying the lives of 800,000 employees at this time. This is a real crisis,
and only one honest person in our Congressional delagation stood up for them.
Thank You Congressman McAdams. Where is Romney's supposed
independace? Lee, we already know he is a hack for Trump. Shameful that they
do nothing and thousands are suffering.This wall is a farce, and
everyone with any education knows it. The low effort thinkers will spew out
lies, falsehoods, and even bigorty against these immigrants to support
Trump's false claims.
Normally, I wouldn't recommend ever negotiating with someone willing to use
unpaid federal workers as leverage to get their way, but in this instance I
think Congresswoman/Speaker Pelosi *should* make the following counter-offer to
Trump, in the form of an omnibus bill:* The DREAM Act.* A
seven-year extension of the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) program, to include
recently expired countries.* $2.7 billion for unspecified border border
security (DHS discretion).* $1.5 billion for humanitarian crisis aid at
the U.S.-Mexico border.* $1.0 billion for drug detection technologies at
ports of entry.* 2,950 more border agents and other law enforcement
officials.* 100 new immigration judge teams to alleviate the
immigration-court backlog.* Future automatic enactment of a CR at 105% of
the previous funding level upon lapse of government funding due to failure to
pass and/or sign into law government funding legislation (to ensure that
shutdowns can't be used in the future for negotiation leverage).
Let's be clear here: President Trump's proposal isn't anything
close to an actual "third way". It really boils down to the fact that
Trump was losing the public opinion battle over the shutdown. 50-55% of folks
were blaming Trump for the shutdown versus 30-35% who were blaming congressional
Democrats. Trump was desperate to move the needle and shift public opinion more
in his favor, but needed to not really concede anything, to save face with his
base, so he made an offer that doesn't sound too bad out of context, but
that is, in effect, the same as the status quo.While Trump's
strategy is probably not having the desired effect to the magnitude he would
hope, moderates' sympathy for the unpaid federal workers may be shifting
some of them from primarily blaming Trump to "A pox on both their
houses!" position, though some of the congressional Democrat blamers may be
shifting that way, too. Probably the only real "win" Trump gets from
his proposal is the perception by some that the ball is now in Pelosi's
court and that she whiffed at it with her "No deal!" response.
@Fred44 RE: "2 bits, Why didn't the President push the congress
when he had Republican majorities in Senate and the House?"...---Because like I've said 100 times... Our politicians don't do
anything until it's a crisis.They don't get serious about
a budget until we run out of money.They don't get serious about
extending our debt limit until we exceed it.They won't get
serious about reforming SS until it's bankrupt.They won't
get serious about GW without a crisis.They only talk about gun laws
when there's a crisis.When there's no crisis they just
talk and pose for the cameras, and work on making the other side look bad and
re-election.They don't do anything without a crisis. It
wasn't seen as a Crisis until the shutdown actually happened==It's on McConnell, but Democrats haven't passed any
bills to open government. The House passed several budgets in 2018, but it was
majority R then. Ds haven't passed anything or even negotiated since their
stance became open before we will even talk to you.IMO The House and
Senate need to learn to get along and vote on each other's bills if we are
to have a government that does anything. Before things become a crisis.
2 bits,Why is this all of sudden a crisis? Why didn't the
President push the congress when he had Republican majorities in Senate and the
House? If it is a crisis, why did the President pull the troops off the
border?Pretty sure you know as well as anyone that the President
verbally agreed to a CR until Rush, Sean and Ann vetoed that agreement. I think
we should be honest about how we got here.I also think it is
important to be honest about Mexico paying for the wall. The President said
over and over and over that Mexico would pay for it. He even told the President
of Mexico on the phone he needed him to pay for it. Now you and others are
trying to use a trade deal that is not even in effect at this point as the way
the wall will be payed for. Not what was promised.You said why
don't the Democrats give him what they were willing to give President
Obama? My question to you is why should they? They gave him 25 billion in
exchange for a DACA deal. He backed out on. Tell McConnell to vote
on the CR and lets move this thing forward. This is fully on McConnell,
Democrats have sent multiple bills to open the government.
"In our opinion: Trump's commonsense border security plan should spur
Congress to act"This newspaper has never understood the great
danger in Donald Trump. If he wins this dispute he will be emboldened, even to
the point of quashing the Mueller investigation. All of this will be red meat
for Trump's base. They will rise up to defend him, and the Trump fascist
dictatorship will be a fact.
@SpangsGlad you agree a border barrier is OK. That shows you are
consistent. Because we know all Presidents (not just Trump) have constructed
parts of this wall/fence at key points on our border. It's nothing new.
It's just that Trump promised it, and Ds can't tolerate him, so it
must be blocked.Opposing now what you approved 3 years ago, shows no
consistency and integrity IMO. But Congress and politicians aren't known
for integrity (either side).===RE: "This isn't
negotiating. This is hostage-taking"...---I agree, both sides.
It takes 2 intransigent sides for this to happen (not just one). I said the
same thing during the gov shutdown when Obama was President.Negotiating should happen BEFORE the shutdown. Did you see lots of Democrats
negotiating then? I didn't.Did you see lots of Rs negotiating?
I didn't.So that's why we are here. Because the needed
negotiations and votes didn't happen BEFORE The shutdown. I blame that
lack of votes and negotiation BEFORE shutdown on McConnell, and Pelosi, and
Trump.Is Pelosi negotiating? She won't even talk to them till
they give in to her demands. That's not Negotiating.
The Editorial Board is giving support for the congressional delegation support
for the wall. I ask for why? is the $5.7 billion for the wall a cost effective
common sense solution for border security when it means the beginning of a $50
billion price tag. How much more will it be to maintain it?Trump
needs to learn a lesson. If he campaigned on Mexico paying for it, then fine.
But he never said we would have to pay for it.
Deseret News, you have not told us if it is moral or ethical for Trump to shut
down the government for a questionable investment to shore up Trump's base.
2 bits wrote: "There are fences/walls that work around the world. Why would
this one not work?"As someone on the other side of the spectrum,
I surprisingly agree with you. A barrier (fence or wall) in certain places
may be more than appropriate! For dems, it isn't that they're
opposed to a wall, but by what the wall represents, and the means by which Trump
is going about getting it. For many the wall represents a tangible
monument to Trumps anti-immigration and xenophobic rhetoric. For a politician or
a citizen who has been outraged by this inflammatory rhetoric, the response is
to fight it to the end. But perhaps more importantly, we cannot
allow any politician, democrat or republican, to use a shutdown and the hardship
it produces as a way of strong arming legislation. It wasn't okay when
Reagan, Clinton and Obama did it, and it isn't okay now. Making the
argument that the dems wouldn't negotiate without a shutdown is ridiculous.
The dems would be delighted to make an immigration deal or perhaps get support
for passing their ethics reform or campaign finance reform bills in exchange for
a wall. Unfortunately, this isn't negotiating. This is
Walls/fences do work. That's why we have a wall/fence around the White
House, and around our military bases, and why we constructed a physical barrier
to help protect our Federal Gov Buildings."Work"
doesn't mean people can't get over or under them, but it slows them
down long enough for you to respond to the incursion.As someone
pointed out, Israel experienced a reduction in terrorist attacks after
constructing a physical barrier to help protect their border.We
constructed a physical barrier between North Korea and South Korea to help
enforce their borders.There are fences/walls that work around the
world. Why would this one not work?And again by "Work" I
mean it gives Border Patrol time to respond to what they see on CCTV cameras,
drones, motion sensors, etc...
RE: "commonsense border security plan should spur Congress to act"...---The President can't spur Democrats to act. All he can do is
give in to Democrat's demands.I don't get the Democrat
demand that he open government first and THEN they'll talk.#1
He can't open it without a funding authorization from Congress. Only
Congress can open government, by passing a budget, so each dept has money to pay
their employees. Even if they just pass an interim-budget to get people back to
work while they negotiate.#2. If he gives in and opens the
government (without money being allocated by Congress to pay people)... who
thinks they will negotiate and give him anything he wants? I don't.I bet Trump knows they won't fund border security if he just opens
the government now... and then negotiates with them.They aren't
negotiating in good faith now, why would they negotiate better once all the
urgency to act is gone? Congress only acts when there's a crisis. They
never act until there's a crisis. Especially on budget.Why
not pass a budget with a little Border Security Funding, about what they gave
President Obama ($3.7 Billion in 2015) and then move on to other battles?
First, open the government. Using poor workers as pawns for a political
disagreement is unethical, immoral and cruel. Whomever thought that using a
government shutdown as leverage is sick and amoral. Second, Negotiate in good faith! Both dems and gop are supportive of border security
in different ways. That said, the current offer is awful! First Trump creates
a problem by taking away protections for DACA recipients, then tries to appear
like he's giving something up by giving them back? Laughable. Republicans
and the Deseret News must think democrats are more than gullible.
Wow, it seems to me that the Editorial Board is gullible, swallowing
Trump's propaganda lock stock and barrel, with no scrutiny applied.
Don't be so naive.
Walls do work. They work quite well. Ask Israel who saw a 90% drop in
terrorist attacks when they build the wall between Israel and Gaza. As Hungary
who rapidly errected a wall of barbed and razor wire to stop the uncontrollable
flood of "refugees" from Syria and shut the flow into and through their
country off entirely. Ask Morocco, Ask Mexico, Ask any of the other 70 or so
other nations who have walls on their borders.The wall is not a
boondoggle. it is a targeted and effective barrier aiding the Border Patrol in
protecting our borders. The current 650 miles do a great job, where they stand.
But some sections are weaker designs and less effective and other areas of the
border have little to no wall or fencing.This proposal is to add
roughly 250 miles of wall/fencing to the existing 650 miles. It's not
attempting to be a sea to sea wall. Out of the spending that bill will
authorize 5.7 Billion is a pittance.Come on Democrats, an offer has
been made. Now make a counter offer, one that funds the wall but asks for more
in return. Permanent residency status for DACA adults, or something similar.
It's called negotiations, you trade offers until an agreement is made.
If you want a permanent wall, you need a permanent DACA solution too. Anything
less is not even close to a balanced deal.
Trump is offering nothing he can't go back on. I find your support of this
Nancy and Chuck aren’t making Trump and Mitch look foolish. They’re
doing that all by themselves.
Simple solution, Congress do your job. First open the government. If Trump
veto's the bill, override the veto. Second have a robust debate on border
security and immigration. Pass bills separately or both together. That is how
Congress should work. Compromise, don't hold hostages, do what's
right for America. Neither side gets everything, both sides get something. Pretty simple.
Trump's offer is perfect common sense, and at very least a starting point
for good faith negotiations. But the Democratsare not interested in
common sense. Their lust for power exceeds their love of the USA.
What would seem more commonsense is if Congress passed a spending bill separate
from immigration reform; one that would re-open the federal government. Then,
after Trump vetoed it, Congress could then re-vote and override the veto with
two-thirds majorities in each chamber. Such a practice has only been done for 7%
of bills vetoed by presidents. So it's rare but possible. People speak of
Presidential Decree as something rare and performed when Congress cannot or will
not act. A veto override is something Congress can do when a president cannot or
will not act.
The trouble with this so-called deal is that trump can welch on it easily. Give
the DACA kids citizenship and maybe we've got something.
The wall may have been an effective soundbite, but in real life, it's
nothing but a mindblowingly expensive and ineffective boondoggle. The President
and Congress should focus on finding and funding a border security system that
would actually work, and not on placating a president who keeps coming up with
these harebrained schemes.
Totally stupid plan. We don't need a wall. This is grandstanding. This is
not a compromise it is a poke in the eye. I hope Congress stands up to this
@deseret pete" it is the Democrats that are holding the
hostages"The hostage-taker is the one refusing to pass/sign even
a short term continuing resolution. That's McConnell and Trump. Just like
when the Democrats shut down the government a year ago demanding DACA be
reinstated.When they did that Democrats realized their plan was
stupid and wrong and abandoned it after a weekend. Trump on the other hand, has
no qualms about hurting people to get what he wants so he's kept this up
for almost a month.
"That may be good politics for her, but is bad for citizens, government
workers, border agents and asylum seekers."What is bad for
government workers is to set a precedent by which someone thinks "maybe I
can shut down the government to get what I want" and then the people
shutting it down get what they want. That just leads to more shutdowns in the
future and brinksmanship on the debt ceiling later this year. Democrats have
long wanted the Dream Act (which is not what Trump offered, he only offered a
temporary reprieve for DACA and TPS eligible immigrants), there are ways to get
Democrats to the table on immigration that don't involve hurting government
workers like Trump did.
This is a common sense and much needed proposal by President Trump. It is
reasonable and the editorial board accurately described it. President Trump has
the responsibility to secure the borders and this is a reasonable starting
It's very difficult -- if you actually possess any degree of common sense
-- to believe that you can negotiate with a person who has a life long history
of being a blatant liar. Common sense demands that in a situation
like that, extreme caution is needed if you try to negotiate at all.
Common sense?Where?That stuff has been very, very rare
ever since the last inauguration.
Commonsense my eye. Trump gets everything he wants (5.7 billion for wall) and
the rest of get a tiny little meaningless thing (three year extension of DACA..a
fact that Congress will not go along with, it has no path to citizenship, and
the courts have all ready stopped the end of DACA). It's a
horrible deal for anyone except Trump.
Shaun - if it is a hostage move -- it is the Democrats that are holding the
hostages -- They have said we wont negotiate -- Basically saying -- we will keep
the hostages until you pay.
Congress must not yield. Presidents must not be allowed to throw a temper
tantrum and close down the government if they do not get their policy
objectives. The precedent of allowing the head of the Executive Branch that kind
of power would be a threat to our governing model. Imagine a President saying,
"If you do not give me Medicaid for all, I will close down the
government." There should be no talks with Trump until the people are
all back to work. We have a President and we have a Congress, they are equal
branches. Congress must not surrender it's responsibilities to the
The people who wrote this editorial haven't been listening. "If
Democrats refuse to even come to the table . . . " is not even an issue.
The proposal will not pass in the House because Speaker Pelosi has already
stated it's a "non-starter." You don't "come to the
table" with a proposal that's a "non-starter."
There is nothing”common sense” about walls - which history has time
and time again proven to be ineffective. There is nothing
“common sense” about a plan that promises to stop doing one or two
harmful things if you will only allow the perpetrator to do a different harmful
thing. There is nothing “common sense” about demanding
more money to fund something when you haven’t spent the money you have
been already been given towards it. There is nothing “common
sense” about this shutdown or Trump’s demands to end it.
"Despite several unnecessary half-truths and questionable facts...The
president's commonsense compromise plan..."I don't
agree that it's common sense to negotiate with someone that you know
isn't honest and has already reneged on the very deal for which he is now
proffering a compromise. I also don't think it's common sense to
reinforce behavior in a person who has demonstrated his willingness to do
anything and harm anyone in order to score a win for himself. What's to
prevent him from holding government workers hostage the next time he isn't
getting what he wants from a Dem-controlled House?I think this op-ed
is foolhardy. It's looks at the short-term only and ignores the precedent
this solution would set. Unless the author's are banking on Trump not
being in office much longer. That's the only way this op-ed makes any kind
of sense, common or otherwise.
You lost me at: " Despite several unnecessary half-truths and questionable
facts..." IF the POTUS cannot clearly and HONESTLY present the case for
border security, it becomes nothing more than party propaganda.
@Shaun "a wall should have nothing to do with paying federal
employees."It only has everything to do with the Constitutional
mandate to properly secure the border. Trump is doing what he is supposed to do
by not accepting open borders. Pelosi and Schumer, by contrast, are
defying that mandate -- despite their oaths of office to uphold the
Constitution. The shutdown is their fault -- not Trump's.
I could see Democrats proposing and agreeing to pass a law (superceding any
executive order) for:Permanent protections for all DACA
recipients.An indefinite extension of the Temporary Protected Status
program, or TPS.$1.0 billion more for border security (than already
appropriated and much of it actually not even yet spent).$800 million for
humanitarian crisis aid at the U.S.-Mexico border.$805 million for drug
detection technologies at ports of entry.2,750 more border agents and
other law enforcement officials.75 new immigration judge teams to
alleviate the immigration-court backlog.Whether or not the House of
Representatives would want to put such a proposal forward and show such
compromise hand without more concessions is difficult to say.
What this editorial fails to mention is trump and republicans can’t lose
and democrats can’t lose which means the country loses.I blame
McConnell and trump only because a wall should have nothing to do with paying
federal employees. It is a hostage move by republicans.
A very good editorial. I believe this proposal should be accepted, put into law,
and then re-open the government.
Commonsense is Awesome!!
Open the government immediately and discuss the wall and DACA as a supplementary
Trumps' so called commonsense plan should spur congress to act. It should
spur them to tell him to pound sand. He's got no right to try to hold our
government or dreamers hostage over his tantrum plan for a wall. He should be
spending weeks camped out in Mexico City trying to collect the funds for his
promise. Congress is equal to his position. Time they act it.
_Temporary_ security for dreamers but we spend $5.7B on the nonsensical wall?
We have wildly different concepts of what constitutes “common
isn't the reality that the southern border was a not a real security issue
to trump during the 2 years the gop controlled both chambers of commerce? why
was there no effort to shut down the government until the democrats took control
of the house this past election?the border wall is a fake issue, and
will continue to be one. this is just more noise to obfuscate on trump's
real issues like his trade war and the investigation into his minions in the
white house. sad thing is, most of the 800k people not getting paid are not the
washington bureaucrats that this newspaper and others often writes about. its
mostly very real people doing very real jobs all over the country, including in
many places in utah.