In our opinion: Trump's commonsense border security plan should spur Congress to act

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  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 24, 2019 7:18 a.m.

    Finally the Editorial Board speaks out about Coulter, the leader of the right wing extremest's. However, they came up Sith the Great Medieval Wall and the Donald ran with it.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Jan. 23, 2019 2:26 p.m.

    "'We Build the Wall' is up to $20,603,133 with 348,400 people donating. The wall is wanted and needed."

    Apparently not. That is less than 4 tenths of 1% off the money needed.

    Doh!

  • 22Ray Sandy, UT
    Jan. 23, 2019 1:19 p.m.

    Remind me one more time why Trump was proud to shut down the government over Mexican funding for a border wall?

  • ~ Angel ~ McKinney, TX
    Jan. 23, 2019 1:09 p.m.

    "We Build the Wall" is up to $20,603,133 with 348,400 people donating. The wall is wanted and needed.

  • Pepe the Frog Kekistan, 00
    Jan. 23, 2019 10:21 a.m.

    Why should 40 year old DACA recipients who have never gotten legal be allowed amnesty? Will they still be able to qualify even when they have retired?

    They already get affirmative action. How many more benefits are they going to get that legal US citizens do not get?

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2019 7:25 a.m.

    How do the private landowners in TX feel about giving up part of their land to the federal govt for construction of a wall?

    How much will it cost to maintain the wall?

    How much wall can actually be built for $6 billion?

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Jan. 23, 2019 5:41 a.m.

    I should be obvious to the DN that their editorial position lacks merit. Even internal consistency.

    On reflection by now we all realize that the President offered absolutely nothing. No compromise, little common sense. The President expects everyone to accede to his wishes. And no one should trust that he will even keep his word to follow through anyway.

    Shame on the DN for putting out this kind of propaganda.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 10:29 p.m.

    @2 bits
    "It's on McConnell, but Democrats haven't passed any bills to open government."

    The Congressional record disagrees with you

    House Resolution 5. Dated 1/3/2019
    House Resolution 28. Dated 1/8/2019
    House Resolution 43. Dated 1/15/2019
    House Resolution 52. Dated 1/16/2019

    "IMO The House and Senate need to learn to get along and vote on each other's bills"

    To date, the Senate has not crafted any actual bills to pass the house for a vote. The House however has passed numerous bills to the Senate for a vote, only to have McConnell block a Senate vote on those bills.

    You can claims it's "both sides" but the Democrats are the only ones actually following the Constitutional responsibilities in getting legislation passed. McConnell is either stalling or trying to protect Trump from actually having to veto something for the first time in his Presidency.

  • BarVincent Visalia, CA
    Jan. 22, 2019 10:10 p.m.

    common sense? no
    compromise? no

  • Utefan60 , 00
    Jan. 22, 2019 9:32 p.m.

    Fact Check came out after Trump's speech and said that he falsified, lied and misstated real facts every 34 seconds of that speech. That is a lot!

    The editorial said that there were errors and some falsehoods. No kidding?

    Can't negotiate with someone who isn't honest in the first place.

    The country is being held hostage. The GOP is destroying the lives of 800,000 employees at this time. This is a real crisis, and only one honest person in our Congressional delagation stood up for them. Thank You Congressman McAdams.

    Where is Romney's supposed independace? Lee, we already know he is a hack for Trump. Shameful that they do nothing and thousands are suffering.

    This wall is a farce, and everyone with any education knows it. The low effort thinkers will spew out lies, falsehoods, and even bigorty against these immigrants to support Trump's false claims.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 5:47 p.m.

    Normally, I wouldn't recommend ever negotiating with someone willing to use unpaid federal workers as leverage to get their way, but in this instance I think Congresswoman/Speaker Pelosi *should* make the following counter-offer to Trump, in the form of an omnibus bill:

    * The DREAM Act.
    * A seven-year extension of the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) program, to include recently expired countries.
    * $2.7 billion for unspecified border border security (DHS discretion).
    * $1.5 billion for humanitarian crisis aid at the U.S.-Mexico border.
    * $1.0 billion for drug detection technologies at ports of entry.
    * 2,950 more border agents and other law enforcement officials.
    * 100 new immigration judge teams to alleviate the immigration-court backlog.
    * Future automatic enactment of a CR at 105% of the previous funding level upon lapse of government funding due to failure to pass and/or sign into law government funding legislation (to ensure that shutdowns can't be used in the future for negotiation leverage).

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 5:42 p.m.

    Let's be clear here: President Trump's proposal isn't anything close to an actual "third way". It really boils down to the fact that Trump was losing the public opinion battle over the shutdown. 50-55% of folks were blaming Trump for the shutdown versus 30-35% who were blaming congressional Democrats. Trump was desperate to move the needle and shift public opinion more in his favor, but needed to not really concede anything, to save face with his base, so he made an offer that doesn't sound too bad out of context, but that is, in effect, the same as the status quo.

    While Trump's strategy is probably not having the desired effect to the magnitude he would hope, moderates' sympathy for the unpaid federal workers may be shifting some of them from primarily blaming Trump to "A pox on both their houses!" position, though some of the congressional Democrat blamers may be shifting that way, too. Probably the only real "win" Trump gets from his proposal is the perception by some that the ball is now in Pelosi's court and that she whiffed at it with her "No deal!" response.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 3:50 p.m.

    @Fred44
    RE: "2 bits, Why didn't the President push the congress when he had Republican majorities in Senate and the House?"...
    ---
    Because like I've said 100 times... Our politicians don't do anything until it's a crisis.

    They don't get serious about a budget until we run out of money.

    They don't get serious about extending our debt limit until we exceed it.

    They won't get serious about reforming SS until it's bankrupt.

    They won't get serious about GW without a crisis.

    They only talk about gun laws when there's a crisis.

    When there's no crisis they just talk and pose for the cameras, and work on making the other side look bad and re-election.

    They don't do anything without a crisis. It wasn't seen as a Crisis until the shutdown actually happened

    ==

    It's on McConnell, but Democrats haven't passed any bills to open government. The House passed several budgets in 2018, but it was majority R then. Ds haven't passed anything or even negotiated since their stance became open before we will even talk to you.

    IMO The House and Senate need to learn to get along and vote on each other's bills if we are to have a government that does anything. Before things become a crisis.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 22, 2019 2:39 p.m.

    2 bits,

    Why is this all of sudden a crisis? Why didn't the President push the congress when he had Republican majorities in Senate and the House? If it is a crisis, why did the President pull the troops off the border?

    Pretty sure you know as well as anyone that the President verbally agreed to a CR until Rush, Sean and Ann vetoed that agreement. I think we should be honest about how we got here.

    I also think it is important to be honest about Mexico paying for the wall. The President said over and over and over that Mexico would pay for it. He even told the President of Mexico on the phone he needed him to pay for it. Now you and others are trying to use a trade deal that is not even in effect at this point as the way the wall will be payed for. Not what was promised.

    You said why don't the Democrats give him what they were willing to give President Obama? My question to you is why should they? They gave him 25 billion in exchange for a DACA deal. He backed out on.

    Tell McConnell to vote on the CR and lets move this thing forward. This is fully on McConnell, Democrats have sent multiple bills to open the government.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 2:04 p.m.

    "In our opinion: Trump's commonsense border security plan should spur Congress to act"

    This newspaper has never understood the great danger in Donald Trump. If he wins this dispute he will be emboldened, even to the point of quashing the Mueller investigation. All of this will be red meat for Trump's base. They will rise up to defend him, and the Trump fascist dictatorship will be a fact.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 1:56 p.m.

    @Spangs
    Glad you agree a border barrier is OK. That shows you are consistent. Because we know all Presidents (not just Trump) have constructed parts of this wall/fence at key points on our border. It's nothing new. It's just that Trump promised it, and Ds can't tolerate him, so it must be blocked.

    Opposing now what you approved 3 years ago, shows no consistency and integrity IMO. But Congress and politicians aren't known for integrity (either side).

    ===

    RE: "This isn't negotiating. This is hostage-taking"...
    ---
    I agree, both sides. It takes 2 intransigent sides for this to happen (not just one). I said the same thing during the gov shutdown when Obama was President.

    Negotiating should happen BEFORE the shutdown. Did you see lots of Democrats negotiating then? I didn't.

    Did you see lots of Rs negotiating? I didn't.

    So that's why we are here. Because the needed negotiations and votes didn't happen BEFORE The shutdown. I blame that lack of votes and negotiation BEFORE shutdown on McConnell, and Pelosi, and Trump.

    Is Pelosi negotiating? She won't even talk to them till they give in to her demands. That's not Negotiating.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 1:52 p.m.

    The Editorial Board is giving support for the congressional delegation support for the wall. I ask for why? is the $5.7 billion for the wall a cost effective common sense solution for border security when it means the beginning of a $50 billion price tag. How much more will it be to maintain it?

    Trump needs to learn a lesson. If he campaigned on Mexico paying for it, then fine. But he never said we would have to pay for it.

  • Lew Elton Jeppson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 1:51 p.m.

    Deseret News, you have not told us if it is moral or ethical for Trump to shut down the government for a questionable investment to shore up Trump's base.

  • Spangs Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 1:13 p.m.

    2 bits wrote: "There are fences/walls that work around the world. Why would this one not work?"

    As someone on the other side of the spectrum, I surprisingly agree with you. A barrier (fence or wall) in certain places may be more than appropriate! For dems, it isn't that they're opposed to a wall, but by what the wall represents, and the means by which Trump is going about getting it.

    For many the wall represents a tangible monument to Trumps anti-immigration and xenophobic rhetoric. For a politician or a citizen who has been outraged by this inflammatory rhetoric, the response is to fight it to the end.

    But perhaps more importantly, we cannot allow any politician, democrat or republican, to use a shutdown and the hardship it produces as a way of strong arming legislation. It wasn't okay when Reagan, Clinton and Obama did it, and it isn't okay now. Making the argument that the dems wouldn't negotiate without a shutdown is ridiculous. The dems would be delighted to make an immigration deal or perhaps get support for passing their ethics reform or campaign finance reform bills in exchange for a wall.

    Unfortunately, this isn't negotiating. This is hostage-taking.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 11:21 a.m.

    Walls/fences do work. That's why we have a wall/fence around the White House, and around our military bases, and why we constructed a physical barrier to help protect our Federal Gov Buildings.

    "Work" doesn't mean people can't get over or under them, but it slows them down long enough for you to respond to the incursion.

    As someone pointed out, Israel experienced a reduction in terrorist attacks after constructing a physical barrier to help protect their border.

    We constructed a physical barrier between North Korea and South Korea to help enforce their borders.

    There are fences/walls that work around the world. Why would this one not work?

    And again by "Work" I mean it gives Border Patrol time to respond to what they see on CCTV cameras, drones, motion sensors, etc...

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 11:08 a.m.

    RE: "commonsense border security plan should spur Congress to act"...
    ---
    The President can't spur Democrats to act. All he can do is give in to Democrat's demands.

    I don't get the Democrat demand that he open government first and THEN they'll talk.

    #1 He can't open it without a funding authorization from Congress. Only Congress can open government, by passing a budget, so each dept has money to pay their employees. Even if they just pass an interim-budget to get people back to work while they negotiate.

    #2. If he gives in and opens the government (without money being allocated by Congress to pay people)... who thinks they will negotiate and give him anything he wants? I don't.

    I bet Trump knows they won't fund border security if he just opens the government now... and then negotiates with them.

    They aren't negotiating in good faith now, why would they negotiate better once all the urgency to act is gone? Congress only acts when there's a crisis. They never act until there's a crisis. Especially on budget.

    Why not pass a budget with a little Border Security Funding, about what they gave President Obama ($3.7 Billion in 2015) and then move on to other battles?

  • Spangs Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 10:10 a.m.

    First,
    open the government. Using poor workers as pawns for a political disagreement is unethical, immoral and cruel. Whomever thought that using a government shutdown as leverage is sick and amoral.

    Second,
    Negotiate in good faith! Both dems and gop are supportive of border security in different ways. That said, the current offer is awful! First Trump creates a problem by taking away protections for DACA recipients, then tries to appear like he's giving something up by giving them back? Laughable. Republicans and the Deseret News must think democrats are more than gullible.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 9:45 a.m.

    Wow, it seems to me that the Editorial Board is gullible, swallowing Trump's propaganda lock stock and barrel, with no scrutiny applied. Don't be so naive.

  • Zabilde Riverdale, UT
    Jan. 22, 2019 4:26 a.m.

    Walls do work. They work quite well. Ask Israel who saw a 90% drop in terrorist attacks when they build the wall between Israel and Gaza. As Hungary who rapidly errected a wall of barbed and razor wire to stop the uncontrollable flood of "refugees" from Syria and shut the flow into and through their country off entirely. Ask Morocco, Ask Mexico, Ask any of the other 70 or so other nations who have walls on their borders.

    The wall is not a boondoggle. it is a targeted and effective barrier aiding the Border Patrol in protecting our borders. The current 650 miles do a great job, where they stand. But some sections are weaker designs and less effective and other areas of the border have little to no wall or fencing.

    This proposal is to add roughly 250 miles of wall/fencing to the existing 650 miles. It's not attempting to be a sea to sea wall. Out of the spending that bill will authorize 5.7 Billion is a pittance.

    Come on Democrats, an offer has been made. Now make a counter offer, one that funds the wall but asks for more in return. Permanent residency status for DACA adults, or something similar. It's called negotiations, you trade offers until an agreement is made.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 9:15 p.m.

    If you want a permanent wall, you need a permanent DACA solution too. Anything less is not even close to a balanced deal.

  • Lew Elton Jeppson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:16 a.m.

    Trump is offering nothing he can't go back on. I find your support of this "deal" contemptible.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 21, 2019 10:12 a.m.

    Nancy and Chuck aren’t making Trump and Mitch look foolish. They’re doing that all by themselves.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 20, 2019 6:17 p.m.

    Simple solution, Congress do your job. First open the government. If Trump veto's the bill, override the veto. Second have a robust debate on border security and immigration. Pass bills separately or both together. That is how Congress should work. Compromise, don't hold hostages, do what's right for America. Neither side gets everything, both sides get something.

    Pretty simple.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 6:03 p.m.

    Trump's offer is perfect common sense, and at very least a starting point for good faith negotiations.
    But the Democratsare not interested in common sense. Their lust for power exceeds their love of the USA.

  • bluecollar Kearns, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 2:00 p.m.

    What would seem more commonsense is if Congress passed a spending bill separate from immigration reform; one that would re-open the federal government. Then, after Trump vetoed it, Congress could then re-vote and override the veto with two-thirds majorities in each chamber. Such a practice has only been done for 7% of bills vetoed by presidents. So it's rare but possible. People speak of Presidential Decree as something rare and performed when Congress cannot or will not act. A veto override is something Congress can do when a president cannot or will not act.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 1:17 p.m.

    The trouble with this so-called deal is that trump can welch on it easily. Give the DACA kids citizenship and maybe we've got something.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 12:46 p.m.

    The wall may have been an effective soundbite, but in real life, it's nothing but a mindblowingly expensive and ineffective boondoggle. The President and Congress should focus on finding and funding a border security system that would actually work, and not on placating a president who keeps coming up with these harebrained schemes.

  • Elsleuith Eagle Mountain, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 11:09 a.m.

    Totally stupid plan. We don't need a wall. This is grandstanding. This is not a compromise it is a poke in the eye. I hope Congress stands up to this nonsense.

  • snowyphile Jemez Springs, NM
    Jan. 20, 2019 10:06 a.m.

    On impeachment.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 9:48 a.m.

    @deseret pete
    " it is the Democrats that are holding the hostages"

    The hostage-taker is the one refusing to pass/sign even a short term continuing resolution. That's McConnell and Trump. Just like when the Democrats shut down the government a year ago demanding DACA be reinstated.

    When they did that Democrats realized their plan was stupid and wrong and abandoned it after a weekend. Trump on the other hand, has no qualms about hurting people to get what he wants so he's kept this up for almost a month.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 9:32 a.m.

    "That may be good politics for her, but is bad for citizens, government workers, border agents and asylum seekers."

    What is bad for government workers is to set a precedent by which someone thinks "maybe I can shut down the government to get what I want" and then the people shutting it down get what they want. That just leads to more shutdowns in the future and brinksmanship on the debt ceiling later this year. Democrats have long wanted the Dream Act (which is not what Trump offered, he only offered a temporary reprieve for DACA and TPS eligible immigrants), there are ways to get Democrats to the table on immigration that don't involve hurting government workers like Trump did.

  • New to Utah Provo, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 9:01 a.m.

    This is a common sense and much needed proposal by President Trump. It is reasonable and the editorial board accurately described it. President Trump has the responsibility to secure the borders and this is a reasonable starting point.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 9:00 a.m.

    It's very difficult -- if you actually possess any degree of common sense -- to believe that you can negotiate with a person who has a life long history of being a blatant liar.

    Common sense demands that in a situation like that, extreme caution is needed if you try to negotiate at all.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 8:52 a.m.

    Common sense?

    Where?

    That stuff has been very, very rare ever since the last inauguration.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 8:08 a.m.

    Commonsense my eye. Trump gets everything he wants (5.7 billion for wall) and the rest of get a tiny little meaningless thing (three year extension of DACA..a fact that Congress will not go along with, it has no path to citizenship, and the courts have all ready stopped the end of DACA).

    It's a horrible deal for anyone except Trump.

  • deseret pete robertson, Wy
    Jan. 20, 2019 7:55 a.m.

    Shaun - if it is a hostage move -- it is the Democrats that are holding the hostages -- They have said we wont negotiate -- Basically saying -- we will keep the hostages until you pay.

  • JimDabakis slc, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 7:44 a.m.

    Congress must not yield. Presidents must not be allowed to throw a temper tantrum and close down the government if they do not get their policy objectives. The precedent of allowing the head of the Executive Branch that kind of power would be a threat to our governing model. Imagine a President saying, "If you do not give me Medicaid for all, I will close down the government."
    There should be no talks with Trump until the people are all back to work. We have a President and we have a Congress, they are equal branches. Congress must not surrender it's responsibilities to the Executive Branch.

  • Thomas Thompson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 6:43 a.m.

    The people who wrote this editorial haven't been listening. "If Democrats refuse to even come to the table . . . " is not even an issue. The proposal will not pass in the House because Speaker Pelosi has already stated it's a "non-starter." You don't "come to the table" with a proposal that's a "non-starter."

  • Kalindra Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 20, 2019 6:31 a.m.

    There is nothing”common sense” about walls - which history has time and time again proven to be ineffective.

    There is nothing “common sense” about a plan that promises to stop doing one or two harmful things if you will only allow the perpetrator to do a different harmful thing.

    There is nothing “common sense” about demanding more money to fund something when you haven’t spent the money you have been already been given towards it.

    There is nothing “common sense” about this shutdown or Trump’s demands to end it.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Jan. 20, 2019 5:12 a.m.

    "Despite several unnecessary half-truths and questionable facts...The president's commonsense compromise plan..."

    I don't agree that it's common sense to negotiate with someone that you know isn't honest and has already reneged on the very deal for which he is now proffering a compromise. I also don't think it's common sense to reinforce behavior in a person who has demonstrated his willingness to do anything and harm anyone in order to score a win for himself. What's to prevent him from holding government workers hostage the next time he isn't getting what he wants from a Dem-controlled House?

    I think this op-ed is foolhardy. It's looks at the short-term only and ignores the precedent this solution would set. Unless the author's are banking on Trump not being in office much longer. That's the only way this op-ed makes any kind of sense, common or otherwise.

  • tahnl Francis, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 2:43 a.m.

    You lost me at: " Despite several unnecessary half-truths and questionable facts..." IF the POTUS cannot clearly and HONESTLY present the case for border security, it becomes nothing more than party propaganda.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 2:41 a.m.

    @Shaun

    "a wall should have nothing to do with paying federal employees."

    It only has everything to do with the Constitutional mandate to properly secure the border. Trump is doing what he is supposed to do by not accepting open borders.

    Pelosi and Schumer, by contrast, are defying that mandate -- despite their oaths of office to uphold the Constitution. The shutdown is their fault -- not Trump's.

  • tabuno Clearfield, UT
    Jan. 20, 2019 1:30 a.m.

    I could see Democrats proposing and agreeing to pass a law (superceding any executive order) for:

    Permanent protections for all DACA recipients.
    An indefinite extension of the Temporary Protected Status program, or TPS.
    $1.0 billion more for border security (than already appropriated and much of it actually not even yet spent).
    $800 million for humanitarian crisis aid at the U.S.-Mexico border.
    $805 million for drug detection technologies at ports of entry.
    2,750 more border agents and other law enforcement officials.
    75 new immigration judge teams to alleviate the immigration-court backlog.

    Whether or not the House of Representatives would want to put such a proposal forward and show such compromise hand without more concessions is difficult to say.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Jan. 19, 2019 11:02 p.m.

    What this editorial fails to mention is trump and republicans can’t lose and democrats can’t lose which means the country loses.

    I blame McConnell and trump only because a wall should have nothing to do with paying federal employees. It is a hostage move by republicans.

  • byufootballrocks Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 19, 2019 10:55 p.m.

    A very good editorial. I believe this proposal should be accepted, put into law, and then re-open the government.

  • The-Antidote Highland, UT
    Jan. 19, 2019 10:29 p.m.

    Commonsense is Awesome!!

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Jan. 19, 2019 9:27 p.m.

    Open the government immediately and discuss the wall and DACA as a supplementary appropriations bill.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 19, 2019 8:55 p.m.

    Trumps' so called commonsense plan should spur congress to act. It should spur them to tell him to pound sand. He's got no right to try to hold our government or dreamers hostage over his tantrum plan for a wall. He should be spending weeks camped out in Mexico City trying to collect the funds for his promise. Congress is equal to his position. Time they act it.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 19, 2019 8:29 p.m.

    _Temporary_ security for dreamers but we spend $5.7B on the nonsensical wall? We have wildly different concepts of what constitutes “common sense.”

  • utahcoyote St. George, UT
    Jan. 19, 2019 8:28 p.m.

    isn't the reality that the southern border was a not a real security issue to trump during the 2 years the gop controlled both chambers of commerce? why was there no effort to shut down the government until the democrats took control of the house this past election?

    the border wall is a fake issue, and will continue to be one. this is just more noise to obfuscate on trump's real issues like his trade war and the investigation into his minions in the white house. sad thing is, most of the 800k people not getting paid are not the washington bureaucrats that this newspaper and others often writes about. its mostly very real people doing very real jobs all over the country, including in many places in utah.