Slars,"At 11,000 dollars per student, we are paying 11 million dollars
for every one million children of those here illegally for schooling. A wall
would pay for itself"We are paying 11 billion dollars for every
one million children here illegally for schooling. *I don't
think DACA is legal, and it should be allowed to make it through the courts. If
ruled illegal, then both houses of Congress will need to pass it. Democrats have broken to many promises in the past over immigration, to stop
the shutdown before a deal would be stupid.
This editorial is spot on. But, the problem is Pelosi will not do a deal until
she believes it is politically advantageous to do so. The only one
making offers to negotiate right is Trump. Pelosi wants shutdown
ended before negotiating. But if Trump does this, his leverage is gone.
2 bits,I am perfectly fine with Trump keeping his campaign promise. I am
sure you remember the promise, Mexico would pay for the wall. As soon as Mexico
sends the check and it clears the bank, build that wall.
@ Kolob 1 Most of Trump's executive orders were to replace regulations
established by executive orders. That was one reason our economy boomed.
wall is only part, but an important part of a comprehensive plan to deal with
illegal immigration. Other countries, notably Israel have found walls to be very
useful. Not much of a chance for Democrats to compromise; they paid no attention
to the presentation by homeland Security on the border; they are unwilling to
budge. They believe the pain of the shutdown will force their opponents to cave.
Go trump build the wall. Stop the flood of illegal imagrants. We owe
$22,000,000,000,000 that we spent that we don’t have. The
people in Washington spent it. Pretending the fight is over the money is
ludicrous. Pretending that the DNC thought it was too much money laughable.
I don’t see anything in the article that states that the House Speaker
also needs to show leadership equal to that of McConnell and get a house bill
mirroring the senate bill passed. The DNews proposal is disguised call for
Republicans to compromise without any funding for the border barrier because
there is no House funding.
Leaders from both parties are off base and engaged as emotional toddlers over
the wrong aspect of immigration as opposed to true root cause problem solvers as
adults.A border wall is a tactic with short-term results and
long-term costs; not an actual strategy that leads to a long-term solution with
sustainable costs.1) Homeland Security needs resources to enforce
the conditions of affidavits of support by entities and individuals who
"sponsor" immigrants that abscond from the conditions (overstay) of
their visas.2) E-Verify/I-9 process with mandatory verification for all
employers. Resources for enforcement that includes seizure of employer assets
for non-compliance and mandatory jail time for company officers and owners.3) Resources for an H1A-H1B visa program that is responsive to real time
labor markets based economic cycles.4) Resources to process relative
petitions quickly, efficiently to cut wait times from years to 6 months.5)
Foreign policy, with priority on our own hemisphere as opposed to the black
hole of the Middle East where we have more realistic prospects of influence to
better conditions that would lead to less migration to Canada and the US.
Trump already offered the proposed Deseret News compromise. Pelosi said they
would not consider it.
FlyAntelopeRE: "Honestly, if Mitch McConnell won't allow a
reasonable compromise like this to come to the floor, he should be removed as
majority leader"...---I agree. McConnell should be removed if
this shutdown continues, and he continues to not allow a vote on things that
passed in the HOR.But I said the same thing when Harry Reid was
playing the same game in the Senate during the 2013 shutdown when Obama was
President.He wouldn't allow anything passed by the HOR to make
it to the Senate floor.Republicans backed down and gave the
President what he wanted ($111 Billion in mandatory ACA spending) to end the
government shutdown.People act like this is the first time in
history this has happened... it's not.We had 4 Gov shutdowns
when Reagan was President and Congress wouldn't send him a budget.They kept passing short term budgets to get people back to work for a week or
2, but then it would shut down again when that funding ran out.This
isn't new. But it may be the worst. And all over Border Security (well
and Dems not being able to tolerate Trump doing what he promised he would do if
elected).Google "Government shutdowns in the United States"
Ever country has borders and those borders need to be defensed,Funding the
border wall will end the shutdown.
This is the solution! Honestly, if Mitch McConnell won't allow a
reasonable compromise like this to come to the floor, he should be removed as
UtahBlueDevilRE: "Conservatives want term limits? I don't think
so"...---I do. I'm Conservative.===RE: "Which of the current delegation do you think has over stayed their
welcome?"...---Open your eyes.Google "List of members
of the United States Congress by longevity of service"...All 10
of the Top-10 are... Democrats.Now tell me again how it's just
Conservative's...Hatch was #35. 28 Democrats ahead of him.Still think it's just Conservatives who stay in Congress forever
when they get in?And it's not just because they don't want
to stay. We vote ours out. Hatch was an anomaly. Democrats regularly stay
40+, even 50+ years. 7 Democrats were in Congress over 50 years, Zero
Republicans over 50 years.Of the 55 in Congress 40+ years, 47 were
Democrats. Only 8 Rs.Still think it's just a Conservative
problem? Or a Utah problem? I don't. Not once you put it into context
using the actual numbers.John Dingle was in Congress over 59 years.
And then he retired. Dems would have kept electing him if he ran again.Term limits would be a very good thing for the country, not for the
political parties. That's why it will never happen.
Not a bad proposal, but if DACA is on the table then the full 5.7 Billion must
be as well. If you want less than the 5.7 then DACA must only allow for a path
to legal residency with no option of Citizenship unless they self deport for a
year.I'm not opposed to negotiation, but you don't
surrender another battlefield you've won to win the newest battle. I do agree with the Senate or Trump making an offer in negotiation. We
need some movement on this. But if DACA is on the table in any way then the 5.7
needs also to be there as a start. Start with a limited DACA and the 5.7 and
see if anyone other than Pelosi is willing to negotiate. Get enough Democrats
on board and the Republicans in the House can pass it around her opposition.
That's how LBJ got the Civil rights act passed, he knew the GOP supported
it, and just needed to get enough of his own party to support it to go around
the Speaker and House majority leaders (democrats) to pass that landmark
legislation that his own party opposed.
Frozen Fractals said:"Because most illegally in the United States
came legally and overstayed. Many come through airports. "Yes, but
people entering through airports have been recorded, identities known, and had
basic vetting,"A wall does nothing about those already here. "If you want to fix a puddle you stop the leak first."drugs come
through means a wall doesn't stop. "Border Patrol could redirect
resources used to monitor 'open' stretches."A wall does
nothing about caravan refugees seeking asylum. "It redirects them to
established entry points for orderly processing."A wall does nothing
about undocumented immigrants currently in the U.S"See comment
above."Illegal immigration is at its lowest levels in decades.
"12 years actually, over 10 million total, apprehensions of 400,000 a
year shows the problem is huge. Ecological and eminent domain issues are
concerns. Yes."a monument to anti-immigrant and anti-Hispanic
sentiment"Sections of wall exist. Are they also monuments? Did you
have a problem with them? Do you have a fence around your house? There are
legitimate issues - but no-one is getting worked up about migratory paths or
land acquisition. I wonder why?
""Replace them all after two terms," has become another siren song
from the left, like "tolerance". It tends to be a very one way road,
benefiting liberals at the expense of conservatives."Kind of
like how many terms did Hatch serve again? "Conservatives" want term
limits? I don't think so. They just like them when the opposition has
been there too long. Which of the current delegation do you think has over
stayed their welcome?
@mike richardsYou blamed Obama for the shutdowns. What has changed?
@Frozen FractalsConstitutional mandates aren't a matter of
negotiation. There aren't supposed to be two sides to this. In the present
situation, one side is endeavoring to comply with a Constitutional mandate. The
other side -- a rogue element, in fact -- is flagrantly defying that
Constitutional mandate. That is what is going on here. Everyone is supposed to
be on the same side on this -- that is, on the side of the Constitution and its
mandate of real border security. Those pushing the idea of "give each side
something the other wants," really are trying to sneak DACA into this, by
sophistry. Trump owes Pelosi and Schumer NOTHING.
@ 1hemlock - Tooele, Utah wrote:"Obama signed 75 executive orders in
his first two years . . . look it up"Whats your point. Trump, as I
wrote , had 92 in his first two years. As far as looking it I called the
Russian Embassy and they said to standby, there are a lot more to come. They are
working on the translation for Trump.
@2bitsThis is entirely a Republican shutdown because they are refusing to
sign a continuing resolution. That's what causes shutdowns, refusal by one
side to pass a CR while negotiations continue. That's how it was Democrats
that caused the shutdown a year ago when they were demanding DACA be reinstated
(even though they controlled nothing other than enough Senate seats to
filibuster).I find that nobody else in all of these articles has
proposed an alternative non-partisan means by which to attribute blame for a
@2 bits: "Congress needs to be wiped clean. A clean slate. Get them all out.
Anybody who's been there more than 2 terms."I fully agree
with this.But when the Utah GOP delegates did that to Bob Bennett
after three (not two, but three) terms, sending two different candidates to the
primary voters, the Utah media, Utah establishment, and the Utah
liberals/democrats all threw a veritable fit. "How dare those delegates hold
a member of the Utah elite/royalty to his campaign promise to serve no more than
3 terms? How dare they replace a solid moderate with someone who might be
slightly more conservative?"When Utah general election voters
replaced Jim Matheson after 8 (not 2, but 8) terms, all we heard was howls of
"gerrymandering" and demands to violate the State constitution by having
an unelected, unaccountable commission draw district boundaries."Replace them all after two terms," has become another siren song from
the left, like "tolerance". It tends to be a very one way road,
benefiting liberals at the expense of conservatives.
Jayson Meline - Chubbuck, ID---A 3rd party movement is needed to
either serve as a force to purge the radicals on both sides; or replace one of
the two parties.---The way US elections go to the
'winner', there will always be only 2 parties.In the
Senate there was a long standing way that minority 'parties' or at
least minority factions of the dominant 2 parties could have a voice, and in the
in the form of filibuster, and the required vote to end a filibuster.The 60 votes in the Senate to end a filibuster on the topic of confirmation
hearings, has passed away. Reid got his momentary victory, when the Democrats
had a Senate Majority, and McConnell got his momentary victory removing the
filibuster for Supreme Court nominees.In any case, minority factions
have used that attribute for these budget questions, and so the so called
Freedom Caucus has used it to prevent passage of budgets they object to, and
here we have the Democrats engaging in the same for issues they object to.Why is it that the conservatives whine only when it is issues the object
to, but praise the system when their 'side' does the same?
@ kolob@bored Obama signed 75 executive orders in his first two
years . . . look it upTrump is finally stopping the "can"
from getting kicked down the road on immigration. The Dems had all three
branches of government for two years and did nothing (see the interview with
Jorge Ramos and Unavision and how he tongue lashed Obama about it). The
republicans have not been able to do anything.If nothing is decided and
the Dems do not go for the Daca deal in exchange for the wall, the Supreme Court
may decide that Obama exceeded his authority and they (the dreamers) would then
get kicked out.Is it posturing on both sides? Yes. Will it get all of
this (or most of it decided) so it's not an issue,? hopefully.
If McConnell allowed a vote, the government would be open.
This is now 100% political.Trump needs this or he is weakened.Pelosi wants to weaken Trump. Trump is getting the majority of
the blame based on polling. The Dems have the upper hand because of this.Couple of things.We should get a reasonable assessment of
what THE WALL will ultimately cost. Obviously $5.7B is a small down payment.
Lets at least talk about the full cost.And once we have that number,
lets figure out if the best spend of that money is THE WALL.I would
bet that border and security experts would probably have THE WALL in some places
and other solutions in other places.Wouldnt it be smarter to step
back and think this through rather than to just allocate billions to satisfy the
campaign promise of Donald Trump? Unless of course you think that Donald Trump
is an expert in the area.
2 bits your last comment I can agree with 100%. It was truly bi-partisan and
did not attempt to paint one side any more the cause of the problem than the
other, which is a correct assessment. The comment before that
however shows a complete partisan take. The same could be said for the
President and his wall. He doesn't want border security he wants a wall
because that is a wedge issue for his base. That gives him two plays with his
base. Play one the Democrats fold and he gets his wall, then he is the hero for
showing those unpatriotic Democrats where it is at. He holds strong and
doesn't give in and his base loves him. At the end of the day, he wants
the wedge of issue of a wall more than he wants a wall.
Both parties would look like heros if they ended the shutdown now. And
that's the problem... Neither side can let the other side look
like a hero, so they both keep sabotaging anything that can fix it, out of fear
the other side is going to look like a hero. And they can't have that.We have a dysfunctional Government. We have for a long time (back to
Bush era at least).They can't let anything that may look good
for the other side happen... so they won't let Anything happen (just to be
safe).It happened when Obama was President. It happened with Bush
was President.It's part of the reason why Congress get's a
14% job approval rating. 14% Make's Trump's abysmal 48% job approval
rating look downright awesome by comparison.Congress needs to be
wiped clean. A clean slate. Get them all out. Anybody who's been there
more than 2 terms. Because they are obviously failing to do what we want them
to do... anything!All they can do is fight against each other.They don't fight for us. They only fight each other. And pose
for the cameras. And feather their nest for re-election, or building a nest to
land in should they get thrown out.
Democrats say they want DACA. But in reality they don't want DACA
codified. They want it unresolved, so they can use it for a campaign wedge to
vilify Rs again in 2020. Democrats need this unresolved in 2020 so
bad... they won't fix it now. They will sabotage any bill that codifys it
(and set it up to look like it was the Rs fault).They want it. They
need it, in 2020They will talk about it a lot. But Democrats
won't actually do anything to resolve it while Rs could possibly get credit
for it. D's won't propose anything Rs can live with or possibly vote
for (ruining their game with DACA). Not while Trump is President. They
can't let anything good happen while he is President.They
won't propose anything he may possibly sign, and ruin their game before the
election. Deep inside they don't want to lose what they see as one
of their main campaigning slogans in 2020.DACA needs to be resolved.
But I guarantee Democrats won't let it be resolved as long as Trump is
President. They can't let him have a win on his record. And they need it
un-resolved for the 2020 election. To use it as a wedge. Just one more time.
What a hopeless 'suggestion'. Trump rejected a Senate bill with $25B
for a 'wall', provided there was provision for DACA.Why
should one expect Trump and Co. to accept anything different. As a Democrat I
have been waiting for the Democrats to go toe to toe with the Trump and Co., and
point out that Trump in early December gave an indication of signing a bill that
would avoid shutdown.He reneged on that negotiation, and who would
anyone expect that given his countless reversals, he would not renege on any
other deal.The Republicans have proved themselves unable to have
Trump adhere to a 'deal', but instead have supported his capricious
style.This may have worked for his business deals, where one can
arbitrarily pull the plug on negotiations. It does not work in government.
The shutdown is the result of both political parties' conscience efforts to
undermine checks and balances to erode the Constitution. Democrats
and Republicans, by purposeful action over at least 3 decades, have purged or
marginalized the independent voices of reason among their ranks to achieve
legislative gridlock. They share the objective of dysfunction
which has led to Congress ceding greater power to the executive; and absolving
themselves of the responsibility for lawmaking in exchange for litigation in the
judiciary to shape laws as opposed to interpreting them.While
immigration is the flash point for this shutdown, and a topic I have much work
experience and real world knowledge to offer comment that would "offend"
and poke holes in both progressive and conservative worldviews and positions;
the fact of the matter is there is a myriad of issues that will likewise
shutdown government in the future. We The People have allowed
Democrats and Republicans to give greater voice to the radical left and right to
our own peril and demise. A 3rd party movement is needed to either
serve as a force to purge the radicals on both sides; or replace one of the two
Apparently, you have not kept up with the Speaker's pronouncements
regarding funding for a wall (barrier). She, unequivocally, has said there will
not be any money appropriated for a wall on the southern border.
At present both parties are losing. It's difficult to imagine how either
side can emerge looking like they are responsible legislators.
@Tekakaromatagi "Unless I can hear a good reason why the wall would be
useless, I will conclude that the anti-wall party have no good reason."Because most who are illegally in the United States came here legally
and then overstayed visas. Many of them come in through airports. A
wall does nothing about those who are already here. The vast majority of
drugs come in through means that a wall doesn't stop. A wall does
nothing about caravan refugees looking to reach the US and declare themselves
for asylum. A wall does nothing about the undocumented immigrants
currently in the U.S. Illegal immigration into the US is already at its
lowest levels in decades.A wall is an ecological hazard, disrupting the
ecosystem and enhancing flood concerns for some border towns. A wall is an
eminent domain nightmare along the border, with pieces of the proposed wall from
a dozen years ago still tied up in legal messes.The wall would be a
monument to anti-immigrant and anti-Hispanic sentiment.
"president, Republicans and Democrats need a self-serving reason to do
what’s right for the American people"That's all they
do anymore is serve themselves. It's time for some drastic change.
Trump will never sign a bill that includes DACA because he'll lose his
base. Coulter, Hannity, and Rush will skewer him over it.
@Tekakaromatagi "Unless I can hear a good reason why the wall
would be useless, I will conclude that the anti-wall party have no good
reason."First, the justification for building a wall should land
squarely on those demanding it be built. So far, all that group has done is
cite statistics completely unrelated to the effectiveness of THIS wall.Second, the problems with the proposed wall are myriad.The wall
will force seizure of private property from hundreds of US landowners via
eminient domain.The wall will cause hundreds of lawsuits relating to land
and water rights surrounding those seizures.The wall will create
construction, watershed, and environmental issues that have never been
assessed.The wall is not needed to stop a 'flood of illegals'
because the count of illegals in the country has remained stagnant for more than
a decade (per border patrol and ICE estimates)The wall will do nothing to
eliminate the cost of illegals already here, only deportation will stop those
costs.The wall will do nothing about the largest source of illegals
currently entering the country (overstayed visas)Even if Mexico
actually paid for it, the wall is not justified.
@Tekakaromatagi: Lots of people have explained why the wall is ineffective. To
summarize, over half of the undocumented in this country entered legally and
overstayed their visas. A wall will not fix that. Illegal border crossings have
already slowed to a trickle and it's not cost effective to spend billions
more on a problem that only exists in the minds of Donald Trump and his base.
This is the law of diminishing returns. Finally, the trackless desert wastes are
already an effective barrier and adding a wall is an expensive boondoggle. If
you want to improve border security out there spend the money on modern
technologies like drones and surveillance cameras. We already have walls in
cities and populated areas.
@slars"At 11,000 dollars per student, we are paying 11 million dollars
for every one million children of those here illegally for schooling. A wall
would pay for itself."A wall will not pay for itself because the
costs you are citing come from illegals who are ALREADY in the country.
Building a wall behind them won't save a penny. "The
Schumer-Pelosi-Bush wall act of 2006 gave us short (3 feet) vehicle barriers in
many places"100% false. The border wall act from 2006 gave us
more than 650 miles of reinforced fencing, double-layer fencing, and in some
areas, fencing 20-25 feet tall. This is easily researched in a quick internet
search.The other important note that you fail to mention is that
illegal counts in the US grew year over year from the 1970s to 2007. Then that
number dropped in 2008, and it has been level since then. We have not had net
growth in the number of illegals in the US for more than a decade, per estimates
from numerous sources like Pew, FAIR, Border Patrol and ICE.The need
for 'more' wall does not exist any more.
@kolob1"4) 4 year moratorium on ALL new citizens rights to
vote."That'd likely be unconstitutional. We have other
statuses that already exist that can be used for a span of time for undocumented
immigrants.@Mike Richards"It is needed for the same
reasons that Schumer, Pelosi, Clinton and Obama have walls around their
homes."I'm just curious, how many of those walls only point
one direction (or three if we want to count the oceans)? "The
Left has lost this argument. "Have we now? Polling suggests the
reverse to be the case, or at absolute minimum there's a substantial
portion of people in the middle who are not happy with the shutdown being a
vehicle for Trump's demand, and yes, Trump is getting the blame. You get
blame for a shutdown when you refuse a continuing resolution.
This is a decent compromise but one which Trump's ego would never allow him
to accept. In the meantime the Democrats are winning the shutdown message war;
they continue to capture the hearts and minds of the majority of Americans while
Trump sits in the White House basking in the glow of the far-right media,
proudly owning the shutdown.
@herbert gravy"Don't think President Trump ever said that
Mexico would write a check for the wall."False. Trump
absolutely stated that Mexico would directly pay for the wall. Trump even
called Mexican President Nieto in early 2017, begging him to admit that Mexico
would pay for the wall."He said Mexico would 'pay' for
the wall. That can be done in more than one way."There is only
ONE way for Mexico to pay for the wall, and that is for Mexico to write a check
for the wall. Any other attempt to fund the wall through trade agreements, or
tariffs simply offloads those costs from Mexico to the US taxpayer.Trump absolutely did not say he was going to build a wall and raise taxes/debt
to do so. He never would have been elected if he framed it that way, yet
that's how he's trying to justify the cost now.
@Marxist"Trump works for Putin".No, he does NOT
work for Putin.He works for me and the American people as he has so
ably demonstrated.God bless President Trump and God bless America.
No compromise is needed!This problem is all on Trump. The great deal
maker promised (with a solemn oath!) that "Mexico will pay for this
wall"!So the problem is between Trump and Mexico. Congress has
nothing to do with it. As soon as Mexico sends us a check for the wall, we will
build it!Make a deal, Donald! Show us how awesome you are!
This shutdown is Donald Trump's. 100 percent. Let's just let him own
it. Trump's wall wasn't so urgent when he had majorities in both
houses. As one columnist put it, presiding over a government shutdown when you
control both houses of Congress is similar to wearing both a belt and suspenders
and still having your pants fall down. If we let the president hold America
hostage over a wall that a majority of voters don't want or see necessary,
what will he hold us hostage over next? We are the only country that plays this
stupid political game over budgetary matters. Let's pass a law to end the
insanity. This is perhaps the only thing Mike Lee and I agree on, but it's
a good idea. The unnecessary and ineffective wall Trump wants has nothing to do
with the parts of government he is strangling to try to get his way. He should
open the government, then start dickering over things like walls and DACA and
real security issues.
@ Rick for Truth: "No compromise, no backing down, just build the wall. If
Pelosi and Schumer will not budge, give the State of the Union Address from the
Senate Chamber, declare a State if Emergency, and do not open the government
without the funding. "C'mon, Rick, be bold! Trump should
just abolish the House of Representatives if they don't support him! The
Democrats are just obstructionists.I guarantee his base, including
many on this board, would support him. I gair-ohn-teee.
For permanent codification of DACA--yet another amnesty--border wall funding
can't be half of what President Trump asked for, but would need to be 100%
of the amount required to finish the entire wall. And the effective date of any
permanent, legislative DACA would have to be in the future triggered only when
the wall is actually built.Sorry. But we've had far too many
amnesties with promises of future border security or future enforcement of our
immigration laws. We got the amnesties, but never got any real security or
enforcement. These are now fools' deals.Furthermore, any DACA
must apply only to those brought here before a certain date, say Jan 1 of 2015.
No more encouraging future violations. And those who have only been here a
couple of years ought to be encouraged to go home and get right legally.It is well past time to get very serious about real border security and
real interior enforcement including real and meaningful penalties for employers
(companies and their human officers) who hire illegal aliens. No more promises
we know will be broken with the next election.
Good compromise, DesNews. Everyone seems to forget that these representatives
of ours are there because folks expect them to represent different positions on
issues. Compromise is what resolves the disputes. Some respect for all
viewpoints. This should move forward. Trump will compromise. He needs an
offer, something more than nothing. Pelosi is still at nothing.
"Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for a useless wall and taxpayers
shouldn't have to pay for half of a useless wall either."I
am sitting on the wall on this issue. Others have said the same as you, but
they have not explain their reasoning, nor have you. I have heard statistics
from the other side that cite other countries that have built walls and been
successful. Unless I can hear a good reason why the wall would be
useless, I will conclude that the anti-wall party have no good reason.I agree with this compromise. And add e-verify and stiff penalties for
employers who hire illegal aliens.Yes, Trump said he would get
Mexico to pay for it. From Day 1, it was clear that it was buffoon comment.
Why would Mexico pay for the wall? But the wall idea makes sense (because no
one can effectively explain why a wall is useless.)
@GoldenRulesPlease tell me and others how "Republicans could
have had their wall before November 30".Correct me if I am
wrong, but I believe 60 votes are still required in the Senate.What
would they have had to concede to enact such legislation?
@Ute Fan-60Don't think President Trump ever said that Mexico
would write a check for the wall. He said Mexico would "pay" for the
wall. That can be done in more than one way.I hope that a copy of
this article has been put in the hands of Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and the
President.Seems reasonable to me but with the current status of
partisan politics, who knows?🤔
Brilliant! Let's do it!
It's a sad day when an editorial board has to propose a way to keep the
parties happy in order to get the government funded. George Washington might
say, "See, I told you so," in reference to his warnings in his farewell
address. It's not a bad idea except that legislation which
allocates funds must originate in the House and we all know that Nancy has
decided it is to her advantage to appease her base rather than compromise. Her
hold on power requires it.And so we remain at an impasse.
Nothing but doom and gloom from the Left. NO family is going to starve. Who
started that rumor? Why did they start it? The role of the Federal
Government is to protect us from all enemies, foreign and domestic. The wall is
needed. It is needed for the same reasons that Schumer, Pelosi, Clinton and
Obama have walls around their homes. It is needed for the same reason that the
White House has a fence. It is needed for the same reason that we have airport
security. It is needed for the same reason that we all have locks on our
doors.The Left has lost this argument. They have proven by their
own lifestyles that they consider a fence to be important to each of them
personally. But, as usual, it's just more of the "do what we say, not
what we do".
What part of Donald Trump's "I will never back down" statement do
you think is in the spirit of wanting to reach a deal or a compromise?
Here's a novel idea: Since the president is not going to back down, and
the House and Senate majority and minority leaders are not going to back down,
the members of the House and Senate could be true servants of "We the
People" and craft a bipartisan solution that would garner a two-thirds
majority vote in both chambers to override a presidential veto. I realize that
may be asking the highly improbable, but it is possible. Set aside the egos and
think about the people you serve.
Here is better compromise.1) Merrick Garland for Supreme Court to replace
Ginsburg when she retires2) DACA extended and enacted into law as written
by Obama. Trumps signs the bill. 3) All "illegal" immigrants in
the USA be given 2 years to sign up with state governments and attend
citizenship classes prior to be legitimized as US Citizens4) 4 year
moratorium on ALL new citizens rights to vote.
" the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program that exists today only
because President Obama issued an executive order."Executive
orders by Obama in 8 years = 276 or 34.5 per yearExecutive orders by Trump
in 2 years = 92 or 46 per yearAnd Trump wants to suspend the US
Constitution and talke over the government by declaring a national emergency by
, you guessed it , Executive Order.The artlicle author's slick
slight of hand " that exists only today" in reference to Obama does not
mention Trump's "that only exists today" use of the executive
"Both sides agree to the deal, appropriate money to reopen the government
and agree to work on border security together."Yeah, that's the
way things should work. But not with Trump. First, he doesn't keep his
word. Next, he doesn't work with anyone. He bullies and dictates. He
doesn't work well with others. Not our allies. Not with congress, not with
Americans. He's been that way his entire life and now, the curtain has been
pulled back and his PR teams have no credibility.
The President ran on the premise that "Mexico" would pay for the
wall.Wrong.The President was going to sign the Bill passed by the
Senate, Until he was told from People outside of his Own Administration that he
would look "weak".The President Admitted on Camera that
"He" would shut down the Government and "Not " blame the
Democrats,Speaker Pelosi is Standing up to the President, this has been 2
years in the making and Long Overdue.The President needs to show some
Integrity ADMIT he was wrong, and open up the Government.
The republicans and the president are or claim to be for some level of a DACA
solution. The Democrats also claim to be for border security including a metal
wall. Clearly there should be a solution if they were no so entrenched.
Neither can back down now without losing politically. Both need to be able to
claim victory. I haven’t been too happy with Romney’s actions as a
senator so far but brokering a deal across the isle is something he could excel
This is NOT a Democrat vs. Republican issue!The shutdown would have
never occurred if President Trump had honored an agreement that Congress had
worked out. But he did not! This is a Trump vs. everyone else deal. His pride
and arrogance is the ultimate issue.Sadly many Republicans have been
forced to take Trump's position upon themselves. They are 'falling on
their swords' for votes in the coming elections. Not much courage in the
room!The solution to the shutdown is simple. The Senate needs to
vote on the bill they originally passed, which the current House has agreed to
pass as well. Send it to President Trump. Let him veto the bill, then override
his veto later the same day. The shutdown would then be over. Trump's pride will still be intact because it "wasn't his
fault"... nothing is! The Republicans in the Senate will have to actually
work to get re-elected in their home states, but hey, a little work never hurt
DN Subscriber - Cottonwood Heights, UT, said "Democrats can end this now,
but they refuse to even show up to discuss options with the President. Shame on
them keeping workers from getting paid."That is a twist of not
only real facts, but what Trump has said about owning this shutdown. He said it
publicly, and now his supporters try and blame the Democrats? What a twist of
the real truth.DN, where is the payment from Mexico from the wall?
Was that a lie? Could Trump have not been telling the truth? Democrats are
holding this man to his promise right? It must be hard for Trump
supporters in the face of what Trump says, the real facts, and real truth to
keep deflecting and blaming everyone else except the guy who did this.
Cognitive Dissonance in play here,
OK, but appreciate this is a hostage situation, with the hostage taker being the
president. He will get paid for shutting down essential government functions.
This is a way forward, but it stinks.
On the surface, this sounds good. And it would get people back to work and
paid. A good result.However, given the character of the President
it is a bad compromise. Indeed, given the President's mercurial nature,
any compromise with this man is likely to turn out poorly. As is said of
hostage negotiations, you can not give into demands from the hostage taker.Trump and his lieutenants have extraordinarily expansive views of
Presidential power. Link that to a failure to understand Constitutional
principles and the foundations of democracy make this administration a hazard to
our democratic republic. The President proposes, and the Congress disposes.
Plain and simple. A shutdown over an extremist policy is in the
hands of this President, and no one should forget it. No President, Democrat or
Republican should be allowed temper tantrums when he/she does not get her way.
Normally in a successful negotiation, both sides get something they want, and
give up something they would rather not give up. You want a new car, be prepared
to give up money. How much money is for the negotiation to decide.Trump, on the other hand, sees negotiation as a zero sum game....for him to
win, the other side has to lose. Right now, he has not offered the democrats
anything in exchange for border money. Nothing. In my car analogy, Trump wants
the car. Period.
Trump told McConnell he'd sign McConnell's bill in December. The
House passed the bill, and Rush and Ann Coulter persuaded Trump to hold out for
more. Trump then refused to sign it.That is how Trump honors the
promises he makes.That is how much this "crisis of the heart and
a crisis of the soul" means to him.This is what Trump's
word means.Nobody who has watched how this "businessman" has
conducted business over the last four decades should have been surprised.McConnell has been the ultimate loyal lapdog. Let's suppose that
McConnell brought Trump the proposal you suggest. Let's suppose that Trump
says that he'll go for it. And then Ann Coulter says that, since the
D's have caved on part of the wall, to hold out for the full Wall, because
that will make him look even stronger. Do you believe--for even a minute--that
Trump would honor the verbal agreement he'd already made? Even though
reneging would be yet another stab in the back to McConnell?The odds
are against it.
How about if all voters look at where things are in the country and vote
everyone of the current crop of legislatures and president out of office. That
is a real win for the country. Pelosi and Trump are worried about who wins,
while the country, American citizens and the economy all lose. Our political
leaders care only about their own power, wealth and position. They care nothing
about the country.
@Golden Rules - Okay, OK"Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for a
useless wall and taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for half of a useless wall
either."Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay the cost of
providing all the rights and privileges of being an American citizen to illegal
So, the Wall, and DACA, merely represent things one group or another
"wants" and that the solution therefore is to simply give each side
something they "want?"No; it is not about what one side or
another merely "wants." It is about what is constitutionally mandated.
Despite what the Deseret News is subtly suggesting here, "the
Wall," and DACA, are not on an equal footing Constitutionally, legally, or
morally. These criteria happen to be on Trump's side. By
diametric contrast, Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer are in fact rogues --
standing as they are in abject defiance of the Constitution.Trump
owes Schumer and Pelosi nothing. That includes DACA -- which is
itself, at once:1) a defiance of this nation's borders and immigration
laws; 2) a reward for law-breaking tantamount to allowing children of
shoplifters to keep the stolen merchandise; and 3) an encouragement to further
disrespect of this nation's borders and laws.The DN is telling
us how awful it would for these children to be returned to countries "they
have never known." But weren't they coming to a country "they have
never known" when coming here illegally? Why is it a problem in one
direction, but not the other?
Republicans could have had their wall any time before November if they really
thought it was a good idea. The people who want the wall can join the people
who want abortion to be illegal. They believe the Republican party is going to
do it for them someday but for some reason it just never happens. . . . .
The DACA is worth the wall, e-verify, and the end to extended family migration.
There is a lawsuit in Texas that questions DACA's
constitutionality. Let them decide it. Obviously if there are rulings against
DACA it would give America a better deal as far as enforcement. At
11,000 dollars per student, we are paying 11 million dollars for every one
million children of those here illegally for schooling. A wall would pay for
itself. The Schumer-Pelosi-Bush wall act of 2006 gave us short (3
feet) vehicle barriers in many places, we don't need this waste again.
Build a real barrier. We need to enforce the laws, and a barrier is one of the
most humane ways. Stop them before they come here and blend into the country,
then it gets expensive.
You really think that Nancy will agree to fund even a lineal foot of a wall? I
don't think she would, at least not at the present time. Trump isn't
going to budge and the Dems would prefer to go on vacation rather than try and
find a solution. So to quote the last line of Coddington's book The
Gettysburg Campaign, "the war went on.''
No compromise, no backing down, just build the wall. If Pelosi and Schumer will
not budge, give the State of the Union Address from the Senate Chamber, declare
a State if Emergency, and do not open the government without the funding. Start
the wall but be ready for the Democrat attack in the courts. Be proactive and
get an injunction immediately from some conservative Judge in Texas and keep it
out of the liberal 9th Circuit in California. It will be resolved in less than
30 days and the wall will be built.
Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for a useless wall and taxpayers
shouldn't have to pay for half of a useless wall either.
No, this is not a good compromise. Ever since 1986 Simpson Mazzoli compromise
the Republicans have given up lots of what they wanted in the way of border
security while allowing the Democrats to run several amnesties and promises to
fix border security in the future.This has been the Lucy and Charlie
Brown football trick for far too long, and thankfully President Trump is having
none of it. All of this should have been hammered out and appropriations bills
passed by September 30, 2018, instead of ducking the issue and dong endless
continuing resolutions.Full funding for border security and then the
government shut down can end.Meanwhile, Trump should also make it
policy that while workers who were forced to work (TSA, Coast Guard, etc) will
get paid, non-essential workers who did not work will not get paid. No paid
vacations for work not done.Democrats can end this now, but they
refuse to even show up to discuss options with the President. Shame on them
keeping workers from getting paid.
I agree with this. Appropriate a good portion of the money for the wall, codify
the heart of DACA, and re-open the government. Essentially done in what, 10
minutes? Both sides giving some and wouldn't that be a nice
"Republican senators should propose a bill that includes at least part of
the money for the wall — say half of the $5.7 billion President Trump
wants — as well as a strong codification of DACA, the Deferred Action for
Childhood Arrivals program that exists today only because President Obama issued
an executive order."Totally fine with that deal but that should
be the part of seperate immigration reform discussions that can easily bring
Democrats to the table because they want DACA. The budget is not a proper place
for this fight which is why I and many of my Democratic friends and family
opposed the Democratic shutdown a year ago over DACA (and why Democrats
abandoned it after a couple days).