Shutdown may upend State of the Union speech

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  • wgirl , 00
    Jan. 18, 2019 4:13 p.m.

    @2 bits:

    Every President stops for applause, but Trump does it much more frequently. He also clapped for himself repeatedly during the 2018 speech - something never documented before. He even went so far as to call it "un-american" not to clap for him.

    It isn't a crime to be so conceited, but it is a reflection on his character.

    You misread and/or misunderstood me.

    My original post read: "If he had anything of substance to say, it wouldn't matter how eloquently he said it, but it is the same nonsense he Tweets non-stop."

    You typed: "Even if he had anything of substance to say, it wouldn't matter how eloquently he said it"

    See the difference?

    My point was that when someone is presenting new ideas, well-reasoned ideas, or "substantial" material, I will forgive them if they are not gifted public speaker, because they have something of substance to say.

    Also, I did not "admit" that my mind was closed or that I will criticize anything Trump says.

    I agree that it is common to see "frowns" during the SOTU speech, but it was a Republican who was officially rebuked by Congress for shouting at President Obama during his SOTU speech in 2009.

  • Mad Hatter Santa Fe, NM
    Jan. 17, 2019 2:21 p.m.

    worf - McAllen, TX
    Jan. 16, 2019 11:39 a.m.

    "Why do Democrats want open borders?"

    Is this your list or did you get it from Fox News? Or is it from watching a lot of Alex Jones and InfoWars since I don't think your third and fourth reasons are a Fox product.

    As I try to understand the conspiracy theory mindset, I find your comments illuminating. Yes, creating a single nation comprising the entire Western Hemisphere does fit the model, but do you include Hawai'i and the islands of the Pacific Ocean in that description? However, the claim that Democrats want to blame Donald Trump for not building his wall when they have made it abundantly clear that they don't want a wall seems to not fit very well in your list.

    Suggesting that Democrats want "open borders" as a consistent trope of wingnut propaganda appears more directed toward the low information, 32% of Trump true believers than the general public. Anyone can see that both Democrats and Republicans agree on the need for border security and yet may disagree on how best to attain it. You might want to re-think that one.

    Nonetheless, it is amusing to read your list. It's nice to see your comments if only to get a good laugh.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 17, 2019 2:14 p.m.

    Here's excepts from his speech...

    “Nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world.”
    “I’m very highly educated. I know words; I have the best words.”
    “No one has more respect for women than me.”
    “I’m the best thing that’s ever happened to the Secret Service.”
    “I will be the greatest jobs president God ever created.”
    “Peace all over the world would be the best deal. And I think I would know how to do that better than anybody else.”
    “If Cory Booker is the future of the Democratic Party, they have no future! I know more about Cory [Booker] than he knows about himself.”
    “40 Wall Street… was the tallest, and then, when they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second-tallest. And now it’s the tallest.”
    “Nobody reads the Bible more than me.”
    “No one has done more for people with disabilities than me.”
    “I would be the best for women, the best for women’s health issues.”
    “I am the least racist person you’ve ever encountered.”
    “I know more about foreign policy than anybody running.”
    “I’m the most successful person ever to run for the presidency, by far. Nobody’s ever been more successful than me.”

    ...State of the Union is the best under me.

  • rdk36532 , 00
    Jan. 17, 2019 10:09 a.m.

    President Trump can and should deliver his address in the Senate Chamber. Congresspersons can view the speech on TV in overflow rooms.
    Many people consider the tiff between Pelosi and Trump as very childish and damaging. Others regard the tiff as tremendous theater. Seemingly an atmosphere of chaos and mayhem is not helpful.

  • RickBob Paducah, KY
    Jan. 17, 2019 10:05 a.m.

    I hope the president works with McConnell to use the Senate chambers for the SOTU (Deseret News- all caps in this case is a legitimate acronym).

    It smaller size will necessarily limit the number of those who could be invited. It is less than certain that any Democrats would be in attendance.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 17, 2019 8:55 a.m.

    @wgirl 11:00
    RE: "Trump's last speech was so difficult to watch and listen to that I finally turned it off. He stops for applause after every sentence, uhg"...
    ---
    Uhmm... Every President stops for applause after every sentence. Have you watched a State of The Union Speech before? This is how they go.

    ===

    RE: "A natural orator he is not"...
    ---
    That's OK. We didn't elect a National-Orator. He won. Now it's time to get behind him a little, even if just in little ways.

    ===

    RE: "Even if he had anything of substance to say, it wouldn't matter how eloquently he said it"...
    ---
    At least you can admit your mind is closed, and no matter what he says or how eloquently, you will criticize it.

    That's honest. Most Democrats pretend if he just said the right thing, or the right way.. they would support him. Baloney. They hate him no matter what. His lame tweets are just a good excuse. But as you pointed out... it doesn't matter what he says, they won't like it.

    And this mind-set is not new, or just Ds. It's been the case for every SOTU speech for long time. The Rs frown through Obama's SOTU. Ds do the same now. Nothing new.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 17, 2019 8:40 a.m.

    You guys on the right crack me up. Mr. McConnell refuses to do his job and put the spending bills sent over from the House up for a vote and you say nothing. McConnell is clearly using his political power to try and leverage the Democrats. Now Ms. Pelosi uses her political power to try and leverage the Republicans and the President and this is the worst thing ever. The sad thing is none of you see the hypocrisy in your berating Ms. Pelosi but giving Mr. McConnell a free pass.

    Politics is politics, how about we criticize both parties for playing political games if we are going to criticize one. You complain about Ms. Pelosi breaking with tradition yet you have no problem with Mr. McConnell failing to carry out his Constitutional responsibility. It would be funny if it wasn't so damaging to our country.

    How about this for a compromise. Mr. McConnell will give the spending bills sent from the House and up and down vote and start the process that he has stopped of opening up the government and Ms. Pelosi will agree to allow the House to vote on whether the President will give his state of the union speech in the House Chamber. Seems fair to me.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 17, 2019 8:29 a.m.

    @Fred44
    RE: "2 bits, Who is charged by the Constitution to spend money? Congress not the President"...
    ---
    I know that. I've pointed that out 100 times.

    The President has ZERO authority to appropriate funds, unless it's a "National Emergency".

    Congress is Constitutionally in charge of appropriations/budget. President can make demands, but Congress can ignore them. All President can do is veto the bill. But Congress can override his Veto. But first they have to send a bill to him to sign. They haven't done that yet.

    Ds keep saying a budget already passed. Baloney. It hasn't passed until it passes in both houses. Passing in one is just half of the process.

    McConell is the problem. House bill funded security. Senate should have voted on that bill. They didn't. They insisted on their bill (which didn't fund security).

    ===

    Democrats now say we must open the government first, and THEN they will give him what he wants.

    This scenario plays out in movies all the time. The cop has gun drawn on the kidnapper, but he has his gun on the hostage. He says you must put down your gun first, and THEN he will give her to you.

    If you put down your gun... they shoot you.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 17, 2019 8:14 a.m.

    @wgirl
    RE: "It is the biggest security event in the nation. It takes a tremendous amount of work to put together that security and keep every U.S. leader safe"...
    ---
    That's true, but the agency that provides security for these events said they are completely capable of providing security for this event. The same level of security they have provided in the past. Watch the "news" (not the Democrat "hype" station). That's what the head of the agency said to reporters yesterday.

    They are currently working without pay, but they know for 100% sure they will be paid for every hour they worked during the shutdown. It's law now. Trump signed it. I know... what a villian... right?

    The funny thing is... every government employee who doesn't work during the shutdown is also guaranteed to be paid for every hour they DIDN'T work during the shutdown. So it becomes a 22 day paid vacation for them. And they complain.

    This is a Pelosi publicity stunt. They are prepared to provide security for the event (according to the people who provide security, not the people who only 14% of Americans approve of in Congress).

    Congress needs to do their job. Then Trump can do his job.

  • Joe Leaphorn Scottsdale, AZ
    Jan. 17, 2019 3:23 a.m.

    Didn't we hear Donald Trump's speech just last week. Didn't he tell us that without his wall we would be inundated by a new caravan of murderous thugs, our homes invaded and taken over as they file for citizenship once they get in the country?

    From what Trump said, the state of the Union is dire. And the only thing he won't say is how bad the government shutdown is for federal employees, contractors, and small businesses that depend on them while other larger businesses who supply the federal government lose business which affects even more people and the economy.

    Personally, a formal State of the Union will probably be a reprise of his anti-immigrant, build-the-wall rant accusing Democrats of bringing death and destruction to America. Although it will be directed toward his 32% of believers, it becomes just another of his typical tirades rather than a serious address to the American citizenry.

    One other thing. We'll hear how great he is, what tremendous things he has done, and he isn't responsible for anything that comes from his shutdown. Maybe he'll announce the American withdrawal from Afghanistan, the U.S. leaving NATO, and there was no collusion with Russia.

  • wgirl , 00
    Jan. 16, 2019 11:00 p.m.

    @Fully Present: "Why should that [TSOTU speech] be any different this year?"

    It should be different because Trump shut down the government. He was "proud" to do it.

    It is the biggest security event in the nation. It takes a tremendous amount of work to put together that security and keep every U.S. leader, save one "designated survivor," safe. All of the people who do that work have been furloughed and/or are not being paid.

    It is not "essential" that we hear a speech. Most of the Constitutionally mandated "Information of the State of the Union" given to Congress has actually been submitted in writing. It does not have to be given in person.

    We have no right to demand that people work for free. There is no emergency here.

    "Pelosi has no business trying to postpone it"

    It is her business. She is the Speaker of the House. Legislation must be passed to allow the President to enter the floor of Congress. Our founding fathers created "co-equal" branches of the government.

    Trump should have taken yes for an answer. He turned down wall funding last year. He turned down border security funding in December. He had two years with Republican majorities.

    He can't cry now.

  • Fullypresent Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 8:44 p.m.

    The State of the Union speech has been given by how many presidents this time of the year. Why should that be any different this year?

    Pelosi has no business trying to postpone it especially since she is helping to keep the shutdown going. Trump and others should be prepared to discuss what is going well in our country? What isn't? What is being done about all the things that aren't going well like the border fight, shutdown, deficit, party war that is dividing our country, affordable health care and housing, immigration reform. So many things they can talk about.

  • wgirl , 00
    Jan. 16, 2019 5:21 p.m.

    Speaker Pelosi needs to cut a deal with Mitch McConnell.

    Pelosi will put up the bill that would officially invite and allow the President to give his speech, and let it be voted on and passed, as soon as Mitch puts up either the 4 bills that would fund and reopen all the agencies unrelated to immigration OR the bill the passed the Senate 100 - 0 before Christmas along with an agreement to over-ride any Presidential veto.

    Mitch could open the government today - whether Trump likes it or not. The Senate and House can over ride a Presidential veto...if they want to.

    Trump's last speech was so difficult to watch and listen to that I finally turned it off. He stops for applause after every sentence, uhg, and can barely read off the teleprompter. A natural orator he is not. (If he had anything of substance to say, it wouldn't matter how eloquently he said it, but it is the same nonsense he Tweets non-stop).

    That, and he whines about people clapping, or not, as much as he thinks they should. It is so petty, and we should expect more - demand more - from the leader of our country.

    Our country is shut down because Trump couldn't get Mexico to pay for his wall. It is time to move on.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 4:56 p.m.

    This is OK for a couple of reasons.
    First, off, we're in the midst of the trump shutdown. There should be some changes, and some things which are not available to us.
    Second, the constitution calls for a report from the president on the state of the union. Not a whiny, wheezy litigation of grievances and crowing of personal accomplishments to be followed by complaints about who clapped when. So give us such a report. There is no reason whatsoever why it can't be written, and include facts and real information. How's the economy doing? The deficit? How well is the government running? Any international situations worthy of discussion?

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 16, 2019 4:27 p.m.

    2 bits,

    Who is charged by the Constitution to spend money? Hint, the Congress not the President. He has the power veto spending bills not write them. Why doesn't Mitch McConnell do his job and let the Senate vote on the spending bills the House sent over to the Senate? Hint because they were bills passed by the Democrats.

    It is time for Mitch McConnell to do his job, and allow a vote to occur then we can move on to the next step. If the bill passes send it to the President, if it doesn't form a conference committee and get an agreement.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 3:39 p.m.

    @2bits
    "If you're going to give him what he's requesting anyway, why not just do it now and give him a budget bill he can sign?

    Hint... because Democrats have no intention of giving him anything, and they know it."

    Because when Democrats say "border security funding" they're referring to surveillance, border agents, with no money allocated for the wall. When Trump says "border security funding" he means funding for a wall. And that's the difference.

    You're commenting as if Democrats will give him wall funding after but not now, and that's not what this is about (it is possible that Democrats will give him wall funding later but it'd be in exchange for something they want like DACA).

  • Daedalus, Stephen ARVADA, CO
    Jan. 16, 2019 3:25 p.m.

    Headline: "Pelosi asks Trump to delay State of the Union speech"

    Not quite.

    Pelosi's letter gives Trump a limited choice: 1) Trump can submit his address in writing on the scheduled date, or 2) whenever the shutdown ends, she can work with him to find a different date when he can make the address in-person.

    Pelosi does not "ask[] Trump to delay his speech" .

    This implies she made a request as to moving the original date (Jan 29 I think) which Trump could simply decline and proceed as planned. He doesn't have that option.

    Pelosi presents Trump the sort of limited choice a parent gives a young child who would prefer not to eat their veggies, such as: "Would you like to eat the carrots or would you like to eat the green beans?" A parent does -not- ask the child if they want to eat veggies, generally, because that is a choice that a child does not get to make.

    Not only does Pelosi continue the parent-child dynamic, she hits Trump in his most vulnerable spot -- his ego.
    Pelosi had a follow-up comment that Trump could always to his speech from the Oval Office. But a guy so desperate for an audience, Pelosi's withholding the House chamber may be what ends the shutdown.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 3:21 p.m.

    If Democrats are really serious about giving him the Border Security funding he's requesting IF he opens the government now... I don't know why it's so important to them that they be given what they want first, and then later (who knows when) we'll talk about border security...

    If you're going to give him what he's requesting anyway, why not just do it now and give him a budget bill he can sign?

    Hint... because Democrats have no intention of giving him anything, and they know it.

    ===

    We need a new budget to fund the accounts these employees are paid from. If we just put them back to work without a new budget... there's no money in their department's accounts to pay them. The budget is what authorizes that money be transferred to each department's accounts so they have money to pay their employees.

    Just sending people back to work, without a new budget to fund their pay... useless.

    We need a new budget.

    You keep saying a budget passed. Untrue. It hasn't "Passed" until it's voted on and approved by both houses.

    Unessential employees have been furloughed until there's a budget because there's no authorization to give money to their departments to pay them.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 1:27 p.m.

    Economists, what do they know about the economy?

    One does not give into tantrums from an adult who is ignoring the facts, with self imposed ignorance.

    Not sure why the DNews allows some posters to just make up things (speculate) why they deny speculative statements, even satirically from others. I guess it does allow many others to correct their dishonest comments.

  • Mycroft , NY
    Jan. 16, 2019 1:15 p.m.

    Pelosi is breaking with custom and tradition by disinviting Trump — but Trump and his supporters have no grounds for complaint about that, because Trump himself has no respect for or understanding of custom and tradition, and he reliably poops on them whenever it serves his interests. (To quote a brilliant blog commenter: “Trump wouldn’t know decorum if it took off a white glove, slapped him in the face with it, and dropped the glove.”) Of course, Trump also doesn’t respect or understand the separation of powers, the Constitution, or much of anything else related to his job. It’s sweet to see Pelosi schooling him on this.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 1:14 p.m.

    Don't delay the State of the Union Address.

    I'm looking forward to trump going off script and making himself even more foolish. (If that is even possible.)

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 16, 2019 12:51 p.m.

    Worf,

    Help me understand this "border crisis". The President sent troops to the border on October 25th (right before midterm elections) saying there was a border crisis. Then on November 19th apparently the crisis was over and he started sending them home. Then on December 21st Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh shut the government down and we had another crisis at the southern border.

    Help me understand how the first two years of his administration there was no crisis, then there was a crisis from October 25, 2018 to November 19, 2018 and that crisis went away and then there was another crisis on December 21,2018 that we had to shut the government down over.

    Reasonable people could say that these "border crisis's" was manufactured first for the election and second to appease right wing talk radio ie. "the base". Help me understand why someone who thought these crisis's were not manufactured.

  • quackquack Park City, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 12:44 p.m.

    Plain and simple The Wall doesn't work to stop Illegal Immigration the facts are out there #1 source of Illegals expired Visa's, #1 sources of drugs their smuggled in cars and boats the "mules" or the people who carry drugs across the border on foot account for maybe 2% of the drugs that enter in the US. Another tunnel was found under the border this one wide enough for 4 wheeler to travel through.

    Trump knows this he gets these updates from his advisors on daily basis yet he's bent on getting a wall So you got ask yourself why ???

  • Daedalus, Stephen ARVADA, CO
    Jan. 16, 2019 12:35 p.m.

    @worf: "Why do Democrats want open borders?"

    For the same reasons Republicans want to legalize the sale of unicorn blood and grant citizenship to sasquatches.

  • mcclark Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 12:12 p.m.

    Why do right wing people falsely claim the Democrats want open borders? Why do they come up with ridiculous nonsense like the cartels are paying Democrats? Because the truth does not matter to them. The vast majority of drugs comes through ports of entry. The vast majority of illegals came by airplane and overstayed their visas.

  • Krusatyr ,
    Jan. 16, 2019 12:00 p.m.

    Trump must twitter-brand dems and msm for consequences of no wall:

    Pelosi Heroin, Schumer Sex Slaves, Dem Death Merchants, Nancy Fentanyl, Chuckie ODs,
    MSM-13, etc.

  • The Meliorist CA, 00
    Jan. 16, 2019 12:04 p.m.

    Trump needs to remember that the Congress holds equal power to the POTUS.

    Trump seems to be approaching leadership the way 7 year olds do, "It's my ball so I make the rules," or "My daddy is a police officer so I'm in charge."

    Mature leaders talk through their disagreements, show good faith to others, look for solutions, and don't throw tantrums on Twitter.

    Sad day when Nancy Pelosi looks like the adult in the room.

    Conservatives, we can do better than this.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Jan. 16, 2019 11:39 a.m.

    Why do Democrats want open borders?

    A. Cartels are paying them off to continue the flow of money and drugs
    B. Bring in an unlimited amount of Democrat voters
    C. Unite the western hemisphere into one big country
    D. Claim that Trump didn't keep his promise to build a wall
    E. All of the above