2 bits says:"He's the President of the United States now.
When he says he really, really wants something... Congress should
listen."-- If that is how you dealt with your children when they
"really, really wanted something", then you would have been a terrible
parent. Good parenting means you do say "No" when necessary; and
someone really, really needs to provide good parenting to Trump.
@old manRE: "If it's bad for Americans (not just bad for their
party) Congress should refuse to do it."Exactly. And Congress is doing
just that"...---Exactly how does the wall harm you?It doesn't harm me. Why does it harm you?It bothers people
who want it to be easier to get across the where border Border Patrol isn't
stationed all the time. It bothers activists.It doesn't bother
people who come here legally.It doesn't bother people who put their
life on the line to enforce our border.It doesn't bother me, I'm
not trying to sneak across the border when nobody's looking.It
doesn't matter to people who come here legally because they plan to come
through the front door. They don't care if there's a wall in the
un-populated ares the Coyotes take their people to cross. They have applied
and have a Visa to come, they come legally (walking through a border crossing
openly with their approved Visa in hand). Not sneaking through an
unobserved/uncontrolled section of the border.Even refugees are
supposed to present themselves to INS at a border crossing, not try to sneak in
undetected at an un-monitored section of the border.How is the
wall's existence hurting you?
@2bits"You seriously believe that. don't you. That nobody has
crossed our border illegally in the past 10 years, or we deported the same
number. It's amazing that you actually believe that."What
is amazing about analyzing data and forming opinions on fact? Seems like the
world could use a fair amount more of that.We absolutely have too
many illegals in the country, and we absolutely need to take rational steps to
reduce that number. Building a wall is not on the list of rational steps.The largest source of illegals now is overstayed visa. A wall does not
help here.The largest costs incurred by illegals come from those already
here. A wall does not help here.The largest delay incurred by illegals is
the backlog in the court system applying for asylum. A wall does not help
here.That doesn't begin to address the seizure of private
property via eminent domain, the lawsuits resulting from seizure of private
property and loss of water rights, the environmental impact of building a wall
in a watershed, nor the international issues surrounding which side of a river
to build on.
@2 bits"You seriously believe nobody has come to the USA illegally in
the past 10 years?Or we deport the same number as come illegally every
year?Seriously?"Yes, on the basis that it's the only
explanation supported by the facts, logic and math. "And how do
we know how many people are living here illegally?"We don't
know. We estimate. It happens all the time in studies, census, military
operations, ranching, , budgeting, forecasts, business decisions, etc. In this
case, the estimates come from organizations like Border Patrol, ICE, Pew
Research, MIT, Federation for American Immigration Reform and others.While those estimates vary a few million in the overall count of illegals,
they are absolutely consistent that the number has not increased in the past
decade.The only way that can happen is if we deport as many as there
are entering, or we stop as many as there are entering. The math simply
doesn't work any other way.Since those are the best numbers we
have to go on, we absolutely shouldn't spend a penny on a wall simply
because it FEELS like there must be more illegals.If you have other
sources for illegal counts, feel free to cite them.
I think Congress should make trump an offer. Open the government tomorrow, and
he can have up to 5.6 billion dollars for his wall in 30 days. The only
condition being that it be granted only as a match to whatever he gets Mexico to
pony up for the wall. As he said they would, time and again, at one of his arena
shows. As he left us all understanding. Payment would have to be up front,
unconditional, and above and beyond any real or claimed benefits of any trade
deal or other funds transfer. A cheque for the wall.
If the entire border were walled with Walmart's most expensive TV, the cost
would be very close to what Trump is asking for: $522/ft assuming the entire
border gets new wall, vs $549/ft for a $3298 TV which is 72" wide.If the 5.7 billion is just for the parts with no barriers, the cost goes to
$785 per foot.Most of that length is in the middle of the Rio Grande
river with private property on both sides, though. Nobody ever seems to mention
"He's the President of the United States now. When he says he really,
really wants something... Congress should listen.If it's bad
for Americans (not just bad for their party) Congress should refuse to do
it."Exactly. And Congress is doing just that.A lot
of us are very happy to see them living up to their responsibilities.
$20 per citizen and we would have the wall.Help keep out addictive and
poisonous drugs.Help keep the drug cartels out of the USA.Help
provide for orderly and legal and vigorous migration.
@silo 9:00 p.m.You seriously believe nobody has come to the USA illegally
in the past 10 years?Or we deport the same number as come illegally
every year?Seriously?And how do we know how many people
are living here illegally? That's the whole problem! We don't know
how many there are when they come illegally.===RE:
"The only logical way that can happen is if we are turning back/deporting as
many illegals as there are crossing the border"...---What do you
think a wall/fence with a gate is for?It's to deter people from
just crossing anywhere.. and come in through the gate (where we can check their
background and know how many people are coming).===RE:
"Since the number of net new arrivals in the US is effectively zero, a wall
saves nothing",,,---You seriously believe that. don't you.
That nobody has crossed our border illegally in the past 10 years, or we
deported the same number. It's amazing that you actually believe that.Less people are crossing our southern border illegally recently, but
why? Partly because of the 700 miles of fence/wall built in critical areas by
President Obama and Bush? Maybe?
The only thing I want Trump to ask for is a one way trip to Mar a Lago after his
@deseretpete"The cost of the wall is a pittance compared to what it
cost to feed, house , process, judge, deport"Building a wall
does not reduce a single one of those costs, because every one of those costs
applies only to those illegals already in the US. Build a full length wall
tomorrow, and the costs for those illegals already here still exist."The wall has proven to help with illegal immigration"Correction. The wall has proven to help with illegal immigration when the
illegal population in US was growing steadily year over year. That number has
not grown in more than a decade. There is no longer a flow of illegals across
the border. There hasn't been since 2007. We have net zero new illegals
in the US, so a wall is not a solution."Any immigration reform
must begin with border security."Correction. Any immigration
reform must begin with effective improvements to border security. A wall does
not qualify as effective, for the reasons pointed out above. More manpower,
better equipment, more judges, more enforcement against hiring illegals...all
are more effective uses of that money.
The cost of the wall is a pittance compared to what it cost to feed, house ,
process, judge, deport, re- deport, --- The wall has proven to help with illegal
immigration- Any immigration reform must begin with border security. What the
Democrats want to do is put an ambulance and trauma and emergency personnel at
the bottom of the cliff instead of a fence at the top of cliff to keep people
from falling of the cliff.
RE" As the president went on prime-time television to tell America he
really, really wants a wall"...---He's the President of the
United States now. When he says he really, really wants something... Congress
should listen.If it's bad for Americans (not just bad for their
party) Congress should refuse to do it. But how does Border Security hurt any
American? It doesn't.A border wall/fence may not work, but it
doesn't hurt any American. Who are they protecting?$5 Billion
isn't much more than President Obama requested for Border Security in 2015,
and Democrats voted for that budget no problem. Why are they full-stop now?
It's just a little more than they approved in 2015.Hint... the
reason is simple. They Hate the President now, they didn't then.And yes I know Rs did the same thing to Obama on ACA funding in 2013. And it
was just as deplorable then as it is now.Dems who said it was
Terrible for Congress to not approve the funding for something Obama really,
really wanted in 2013... why is this different?When the President
really really wants something, unless there's a good reason not to, do it.
And Party-partisanship is not a good reason, then or now.
@RRB"The wall is cheap, it only needs to stop 6% to pay for
itself."Your stats are not relevant to the discussion about the
wall, because you're misapplying a 'problem' with a completely
different 'solution'.The costs that you cite apply to
illegals already in the country. That number, according to sources like ICE,
Pew, Border Patrol, and Federation for American Immigration Reform, has not
grown in more than a decade. The only logical way that can happen is if we are
turning back/deporting as many illegals as there are crossing the
border....meaning net zero growth in the illegal population.Since
the costs you cite apply to illegals already here, building a wall behind them
saves none of those costs.Since the number of net new arrivals in
the US is effectively zero, a wall saves nothing in those numbers either.Every effort and every dollar of trump's wall budget should be
diverted to enforcement of laws against companies hiring illegals, deportation
of those already here, and processing of the current backlog of asylum seekers.
All actions that will absolutely drive down the costs you cited.
Average cost per student in US $11,000 per year. Cost to educate one million
undocumented students each year 11 billion dollars, or twice the cost of the
wall. Estimates put undocumented children at 4 million on up, no one really
knows. Undocumented parents are between 11 million (PEW) and 22 million
(Yale/MIT)The wall is cheap, it only needs to stop 6% to pay for
itself. Then maybe Utah would give more to education, which is
Public education will never stop whining.
Every year Utah has a huge tax surplus, and every year Herbert gives it to
education, instead of back to the people who's money it is. Maybe we should
lower taxes and let the people keep more of their own money.