Jay Evensen: If you think the cost of the wall is high, just wait until the president asks for this

Return To Article
Add a comment
  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 9:29 a.m.

    2 bits says:

    "He's the President of the United States now. When he says he really, really wants something... Congress should listen."

    -- If that is how you dealt with your children when they "really, really wanted something", then you would have been a terrible parent. Good parenting means you do say "No" when necessary; and someone really, really needs to provide good parenting to Trump.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 8:25 a.m.

    @old man
    RE: "If it's bad for Americans (not just bad for their party) Congress should refuse to do it."
    Exactly. And Congress is doing just that"...
    ---
    Exactly how does the wall harm you?

    It doesn't harm me. Why does it harm you?

    It bothers people who want it to be easier to get across the where border Border Patrol isn't stationed all the time. It bothers activists.

    It doesn't bother people who come here legally.
    It doesn't bother people who put their life on the line to enforce our border.
    It doesn't bother me, I'm not trying to sneak across the border when nobody's looking.

    It doesn't matter to people who come here legally because they plan to come through the front door. They don't care if there's a wall in the un-populated ares the Coyotes take their people to cross. They have applied and have a Visa to come, they come legally (walking through a border crossing openly with their approved Visa in hand). Not sneaking through an unobserved/uncontrolled section of the border.

    Even refugees are supposed to present themselves to INS at a border crossing, not try to sneak in undetected at an un-monitored section of the border.

    How is the wall's existence hurting you?

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 8:32 p.m.

    @2bits
    "You seriously believe that. don't you. That nobody has crossed our border illegally in the past 10 years, or we deported the same number. It's amazing that you actually believe that."

    What is amazing about analyzing data and forming opinions on fact? Seems like the world could use a fair amount more of that.

    We absolutely have too many illegals in the country, and we absolutely need to take rational steps to reduce that number. Building a wall is not on the list of rational steps.

    The largest source of illegals now is overstayed visa. A wall does not help here.
    The largest costs incurred by illegals come from those already here. A wall does not help here.
    The largest delay incurred by illegals is the backlog in the court system applying for asylum. A wall does not help here.

    That doesn't begin to address the seizure of private property via eminent domain, the lawsuits resulting from seizure of private property and loss of water rights, the environmental impact of building a wall in a watershed, nor the international issues surrounding which side of a river to build on.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 8:23 p.m.

    @2 bits
    "You seriously believe nobody has come to the USA illegally in the past 10 years?
    Or we deport the same number as come illegally every year?
    Seriously?"

    Yes, on the basis that it's the only explanation supported by the facts, logic and math.

    "And how do we know how many people are living here illegally?"

    We don't know. We estimate. It happens all the time in studies, census, military operations, ranching, , budgeting, forecasts, business decisions, etc. In this case, the estimates come from organizations like Border Patrol, ICE, Pew Research, MIT, Federation for American Immigration Reform and others.

    While those estimates vary a few million in the overall count of illegals, they are absolutely consistent that the number has not increased in the past decade.

    The only way that can happen is if we deport as many as there are entering, or we stop as many as there are entering. The math simply doesn't work any other way.

    Since those are the best numbers we have to go on, we absolutely shouldn't spend a penny on a wall simply because it FEELS like there must be more illegals.

    If you have other sources for illegal counts, feel free to cite them.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 7:32 p.m.

    I think Congress should make trump an offer. Open the government tomorrow, and he can have up to 5.6 billion dollars for his wall in 30 days. The only condition being that it be granted only as a match to whatever he gets Mexico to pony up for the wall. As he said they would, time and again, at one of his arena shows. As he left us all understanding. Payment would have to be up front, unconditional, and above and beyond any real or claimed benefits of any trade deal or other funds transfer. A cheque for the wall.

  • JLindow St. George, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 5:38 p.m.

    If the entire border were walled with Walmart's most expensive TV, the cost would be very close to what Trump is asking for: $522/ft assuming the entire border gets new wall, vs $549/ft for a $3298 TV which is 72" wide.

    If the 5.7 billion is just for the parts with no barriers, the cost goes to $785 per foot.

    Most of that length is in the middle of the Rio Grande river with private property on both sides, though. Nobody ever seems to mention that part.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 3:49 p.m.

    "He's the President of the United States now. When he says he really, really wants something... Congress should listen.

    If it's bad for Americans (not just bad for their party) Congress should refuse to do it."

    Exactly. And Congress is doing just that.

    A lot of us are very happy to see them living up to their responsibilities.

  • rdk36532 , 00
    Jan. 15, 2019 2:17 p.m.

    $20 per citizen and we would have the wall.
    Help keep out addictive and poisonous drugs.
    Help keep the drug cartels out of the USA.
    Help provide for orderly and legal and vigorous migration.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 12:50 p.m.

    @silo 9:00 p.m.
    You seriously believe nobody has come to the USA illegally in the past 10 years?

    Or we deport the same number as come illegally every year?

    Seriously?

    And how do we know how many people are living here illegally? That's the whole problem! We don't know how many there are when they come illegally.

    ===

    RE: "The only logical way that can happen is if we are turning back/deporting as many illegals as there are crossing the border"...
    ---
    What do you think a wall/fence with a gate is for?

    It's to deter people from just crossing anywhere.. and come in through the gate (where we can check their background and know how many people are coming).

    ===

    RE: "Since the number of net new arrivals in the US is effectively zero, a wall saves nothing",,,
    ---
    You seriously believe that. don't you. That nobody has crossed our border illegally in the past 10 years, or we deported the same number. It's amazing that you actually believe that.

    Less people are crossing our southern border illegally recently, but why? Partly because of the 700 miles of fence/wall built in critical areas by President Obama and Bush? Maybe?

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 12:26 p.m.

    The only thing I want Trump to ask for is a one way trip to Mar a Lago after his resignation.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 12:18 p.m.

    @deseretpete
    "The cost of the wall is a pittance compared to what it cost to feed, house , process, judge, deport"

    Building a wall does not reduce a single one of those costs, because every one of those costs applies only to those illegals already in the US. Build a full length wall tomorrow, and the costs for those illegals already here still exist.

    "The wall has proven to help with illegal immigration"

    Correction. The wall has proven to help with illegal immigration when the illegal population in US was growing steadily year over year. That number has not grown in more than a decade. There is no longer a flow of illegals across the border. There hasn't been since 2007. We have net zero new illegals in the US, so a wall is not a solution.

    "Any immigration reform must begin with border security."

    Correction. Any immigration reform must begin with effective improvements to border security. A wall does not qualify as effective, for the reasons pointed out above. More manpower, better equipment, more judges, more enforcement against hiring illegals...all are more effective uses of that money.

  • deseret pete robertson, Wy
    Jan. 15, 2019 11:09 a.m.

    The cost of the wall is a pittance compared to what it cost to feed, house , process, judge, deport, re- deport, --- The wall has proven to help with illegal immigration- Any immigration reform must begin with border security. What the Democrats want to do is put an ambulance and trauma and emergency personnel at the bottom of the cliff instead of a fence at the top of cliff to keep people from falling of the cliff.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 10:20 a.m.

    RE" As the president went on prime-time television to tell America he really, really wants a wall"...
    ---
    He's the President of the United States now. When he says he really, really wants something... Congress should listen.

    If it's bad for Americans (not just bad for their party) Congress should refuse to do it. But how does Border Security hurt any American? It doesn't.

    A border wall/fence may not work, but it doesn't hurt any American. Who are they protecting?

    $5 Billion isn't much more than President Obama requested for Border Security in 2015, and Democrats voted for that budget no problem. Why are they full-stop now? It's just a little more than they approved in 2015.

    Hint... the reason is simple. They Hate the President now, they didn't then.

    And yes I know Rs did the same thing to Obama on ACA funding in 2013. And it was just as deplorable then as it is now.

    Dems who said it was Terrible for Congress to not approve the funding for something Obama really, really wanted in 2013... why is this different?

    When the President really really wants something, unless there's a good reason not to, do it. And Party-partisanship is not a good reason, then or now.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 9:00 p.m.

    @RRB

    "The wall is cheap, it only needs to stop 6% to pay for itself."

    Your stats are not relevant to the discussion about the wall, because you're misapplying a 'problem' with a completely different 'solution'.

    The costs that you cite apply to illegals already in the country. That number, according to sources like ICE, Pew, Border Patrol, and Federation for American Immigration Reform, has not grown in more than a decade. The only logical way that can happen is if we are turning back/deporting as many illegals as there are crossing the border....meaning net zero growth in the illegal population.

    Since the costs you cite apply to illegals already here, building a wall behind them saves none of those costs.

    Since the number of net new arrivals in the US is effectively zero, a wall saves nothing in those numbers either.

    Every effort and every dollar of trump's wall budget should be diverted to enforcement of laws against companies hiring illegals, deportation of those already here, and processing of the current backlog of asylum seekers. All actions that will absolutely drive down the costs you cited.

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 2:27 p.m.

    Average cost per student in US $11,000 per year. Cost to educate one million undocumented students each year 11 billion dollars, or twice the cost of the wall. Estimates put undocumented children at 4 million on up, no one really knows. Undocumented parents are between 11 million (PEW) and 22 million (Yale/MIT)

    The wall is cheap, it only needs to stop 6% to pay for itself.

    Then maybe Utah would give more to education, which is underfunded.

  • Flipphone , 00
    Jan. 14, 2019 11:03 a.m.

    Public education will never stop whining.

  • Vengeance70 Payson, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 10:27 a.m.

    Every year Utah has a huge tax surplus, and every year Herbert gives it to education, instead of back to the people who's money it is. Maybe we should lower taxes and let the people keep more of their own money.