@LDSMEMBER55 - Englewood, NJI think you said it best:"Equal Justice not social justice"Look at how
conservatives are banned on Twitter, while the hatemongers targeting the
Covington Catholic were not. We cannot allow flimsy promises of
equality, it has to be in the law.
Hate crime legislation is not a good thing. This article points out the
"democratization of hate" based on "political divisions". Take
trumps infamous comment's regarding the charlottesville riots, trump
clearly stated "we condemn in the strongest possible term's this
egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, many
sides." One should ask themselves where trump actually said he supported the
white supremacist group? Because quite literally he didnt, but the leftist media
all democrats and some repubs criticised trump because he didn't single out
just the white supremacist group, this is democratization of hate by a political
culture.Trump was not wrong in making those comments because the
hate group antifa was there in riot gear with clubs and bats with the intent to
fight, trump was right in calling out all participants who participated in the
violence. Antifah is known for attacking conservatives or anyone who doesnt
support leftist ideology.Crime comes from many sources, hate crime
legislation is a way to squash free speech and punishes those not in agreement
with the current political climate, hitler did this in germany using propaganda
thru the media.
The definition cited in the article for hate crime does not include minority. It
included a specific statement that the basis of the crime being the
victim's race, ethnic origin, sexual orientation, national origin. That
means, clearly, that even members of a majority, say a white heterosexual male
protestant, can also be a victim of a hate crime.
How exactly is a burglary considered a hate crime?
Equal Justice. NOT social Justice. Hate speech prosecution is social
justice. A crime is not more important because it was committed against a
particular identity group. Hate speech is whatever Democrats say
it is. Very dangerous and unconstitutional.
The concept of 'hate crimes' establishes special groups who receive
additional protections under the law.Hate crimes only apply to certain
'disadvantaged' groups - and the law punishes crimes against them more
seriously.This appears to be a pretty clear breach of the 14th amendment.
@banliberals"Why only three years?....because that is about the time
Comey was fired for incompetence!"Comey was fired in 2017. And
this tracking started with 2015."The FBI documented 15
"anti-Mormon" hate crimes, or crimes specifically targeting Latter-day
Saints, in 2017. That's roughly twice the seven "anti-Mormon" hate
crimes recorded in 2016 or the eight in 2015, when the bureau first started
tracking bias-motivated offenses"
Why only three years?....because that is about the time Comey was fired for
incompetence!Before that...anything corrupt was OK with the FBI!
I agree with Cowboy Poet and others who say “hate crimes” need to be
treated as plain crimes. True hate crimes are often hard to prove, and thus
don’t get counted as hate crimes anyway. We can’t know what someone
else is thinking unless they say it themselves. We can get into a lot of trouble
attributing motives to crimes when we usually just don’t know. Calling
them hate crimes just scares everyone and makes those in the group supposedly
targeted view other people suspiciously. We are already too busy dividing people
in our country into victim groups. We need to go back to defending individual
rights, and prosecuting actions, not intentions.
Crimes against Catholicsand all Christian varieties are also increasing.It
is politically incorrect to have religious values and opinions.That is an
indication of a somewhat ominous future.
1 - How is any mormon a "minority" in utah?2 - How can one
say that a burglary or theft is motivated by anything other than material gain?
I find that to be a stretch
Hate is hate regardless of who commits the crime and regardless of their status
as a majority or a minority. I find it amazing that hate crimes can only be
committed against minorities. Tell that to the recipients of crimes throughout
the United States. Perhaps if the FBI shared their crime statistics with crimes
of one race against another, there would be less people worried about minorities
and start realizing that hate crimes go both ways regardless of your race. Oh,
and I also find it amazing that the world celebrates diversity as some sort of
panacea, while the FBI notes that increasing diversity as a cause for increased
crime. Enforce the law and punish people for the act not the motivation. As
for Sam Gill, perhaps he could be more concerned about his homeland of India
where classes are created by heritage and one seldom if ever escapes the abuse
laid on the lower classes of that country. He hardly has room to talk about the
treatment of minorities based on his religious background.
Why the opposition to the category "hate crimes" by so many commenters
here? The law has always been grounded in the question of motive: did I kill
for self-protection, for money, for revenge, or just because I don't think
you, my victim, should exist? There's a difference between these motives,
and those differences matter.Hate crimes are especially permicious.
They are, in fact, specific instances of what we now call--since the immediate
aftermath of World War 2--genocide. It mattered that Hitler killed Jews only
because they were Jews. The scale was horrific, but even one instance of
killing only one Jew because she was a Jew is depraved. It matters now that the
government of Myanmar is driving out and killing the Rohingya (Muslims) because
they are Rohingya and Muslims. And it must matter to us that someone is
perpetrating violence on someone simply because she believes something
The Feds are about 180 years too late.
"David, look at who is targeted more often. According to the article Jews
and Muslims. These are people who have been historically attacked by far-right
groups, and not the political left."Actually Jews have
historically been attacked by the left. The KKK and white nationalism are all
Democrat constructs. It all falls in line with national socialism, which the
espoused in the 1930s and continues to push for even today. Socialism is a left
wing idea. Not a far right wing idea. The very far right would be Anarchy, no
government, not hateful socialism.
We are victims of what we read and see in the media. Based on that and the
behavior of people living under different set of laws than we have under our
constitution, I fear what might happen if we don't make some fundamental
changes as to who and how are all groups of peoples living in America are
behaving under American law. Enforcing our laws, that we already have, to a
greater extent should take care of this problem.
You are wrong flyboy. This absolutely IS a left/right issue. Was the man who
said he intended to go out and "kill a Mexican" a Hillary voter, do you
think? Was Dylan Roof a guy who gave money to the Obama campaign? Were those who
marched on Charlottesville more likely to be Trump guys or Kamala Harris voters?
Was the coward who ran over Heather Hyer someone you'd see as wearing a
Grateful Dead cap or a MAGA hat? Be honest. You make strange and uncomfortable
bedfellows when you cast your lot with a President who openly advocated violence
against "suspects" or people protesting his rallies--but you have to be
willing to admit who it is you are cuddled up with. I have never been a
fan of the LDS Church, but I have known and loved many, many good LDS people. I
would NEVER advocate any discrimination against their church and I've never
hurt anyone because of their religion and would defend any person who was being
attacked because of their beliefs---unless they were seeking publicity by using
hate speech themselves (Westboro Baptist Church--Fred Phelps type).
For all those commentators with the sentiment: “A crime should only
be prosecuted for the act, and not the thought process that motivated
it.”, do you all have issue with the categorizations and different
punishments attached to murder, aggravated murder, voluntary manslaughter,
involuntary manslaughter, and justifiable homicide? Each of those revolves
around the same act, after all - someone was killed.
While anti-LDS hate crimes may be comparatively uncommon, they do happen. I am
personally aware of two LDS church buildings which were firebombed in the area
where I previously lived in central California. Fortunately, the incidents
didn't do very much damage.That being said, the first
requirement for any anti-hate crime law or policy is a standard, mutually
acceptable definition of "hate." Otherwise, it becomes a term that
means pretty much whatever anybody wants it to mean.
This isn't a Left/right issue. It amazes me how quickly that seems to be
brought up whenever something happens. And I would just like to remind those
who blame these acts on the left, that there are lots of faithful and
practicing "Left Wing" Latter-day Saints as well.
I'm in accord with the Cowboy Poet. Just punish the crime. Be impartial
and empirical in weighing the evidence."Hate crimes" and
"hate speech" are bogus. They allow government and politically correct
minions to specify what or who is important and what or who is not worthy of
their attention.The crimes should be prosecuted not plea bargained,
and the sentencing process is where some discretion is warranted as well as with
the board of pardons who will actually assign time in confinement, or not. Some
reformation of the prison system is also suggested but I digress.I
have to confess a bias against vandalism aka graffiti. I find it offensive to
violate someone's property with another person's subjective opinion or
desire for fame and notoriety.
People generally have anxiety , fear and dislike for things, people, religion
and societies that they don't and can't understand and that they
can't believe. Religion and some churches in particularly have a cult like
presence of secrecy exclusivity, and claims of being the superior chosen of
god's elite. Churches need to tone down their rhetoric and open their
hearts and minds to honesty and disclosure of their real nature and limitations
that they are no different or more special or precious than all other good
Utah needs a hate crimes law to protect Mormons and other faith groups
I've often wondered about categorizing crimes as "hate" crimes.
Why make the differentiation? The victim is still hurt or dead, the church is
still vandalized, the money is still stolen, etc. Why do people do these things
anyway? It seems we are closing the barn door after the horse has left. We need
to strike at the root of the problem, the erosion of family and core values such
as honesty, love and respect for others.
Creating and tending a narrative are essential propaganda tools of progressives.
Doing so creates victim groups and helps establish the us vs. them concept.By pointing out either advantage or persecution, the left builds an
alliance and gives them a basis for policies that protect one group and punish
another. We see it played out daily in the newspaper when we talk about minimum
wages, subsidized housing, immigration, gender rights... THe list goes on and
on.If national pride and identity can be morphed into WHITE
nationalism, then it is easy to call out "racist" whenever someone wants
immigration enforcement.From SPLC to Sim Gill, hate crime
initiatives are political tools of the left/ THey have more to do with winning
elections than punishing criminals.C S Lewis explains that
"I'm as good as you," is a dangerous societal pathology. The quest
for parity is a fool's game. (Hint: He wasn't talking about white
David - Centerville, UTThanks for reminding us of the elephant in
the living room.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.Then they came for the trade
unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade
unionist.Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak
out— Because I was not a Jew.Then they came for
me—and there was no one left to speak for me.-- Martin
This made me chuckle, "Because of the partial government shutdown, the FBI
was unable to respond to a request for comment." The bureau is this open
for investigative work, but their ability to make a comment is hindered because
of the partial government shutdown. Lol!
Beware of what you are ask for, lest you receive it!As a convert in
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, I have been taught, and
continue to faithfully regard, our Constitution of the United States of America
as a religiously sacred document written by inspired men whom Heavenly Father
raised up for that specific purpose.Any and all so-called "hate
crime" and/or "hate speech" legislation is a flagrant and onerous
violation of inalienable rights and of our divinely inspired Constitution of the
United States of America.A crime should only be prosecuted for the
act, and not the thought process that motivated it.There are already
so many laws on the books that everyone is now unknowingly guilty of something
at some point in time.
Having lived in a town for 18-years that was a Christian Cooperative when it was
started 120 years ago, they didn’t consider members of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints as Christians. We met in various places until we
were able to build a Chapel, such as the VFW and other places. Then, we almost
got the building completed and in those days, the Church procurement process was
not like today. We had the new fixtures in the rooms and the basement
wasn’t completely done.Someone broke into the building and
poured gas around in the small cultural hall and started the accelerated fire.
Since the building was a brick exterior that part of the building was
recoverable. The inside was gutted along with the new fixtures.We
had to rebuild it on the inside and I remember helping on that part as the
building fund was a lot different in those days and sweat equity was a lot of
the process.The local law enforcement didn’t do much of an
investigation. The community years later was not friendly towards the members
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.However, when we
were rebuilding, members from two Christian churches let us use their buildings.
"David" I did not see anywhere in the article a discussion of Trump or
Left/Right politics relating to violence. Considering that there were 938
attacks against Jews and 247 against Muslims, I'd say that historically
attacks against them have been mostly by the right. As for the 17 attacks
against the LDS, who knows where those attacks came from. The one thing I got
from the article is that there are a lot of hate crimes that are committed by
people who hate. If there is a conclusion to be drawn from that, it's that
we should hate less and let others live more.
Crimes like these are driven by anger. It is unconscionable to give extra
punishment for so-called hate crimes and slap the wrists of those who commit
domestic violences. These two crimes are committed because of anger. How someone
feels cannot be regulated. How many probation sentences have been given to those
who have inflicted injuries on their own family members. Although so-called hate
crimes stoke the public’s emotions, we cannot allow our emotions to
dictate our justice system. When someone is injured by someone else, the penalty
should be given regardless of how they feel or what socioeconomic the offenders
was raised in. Too many times offenders are given light sentences because of
their upbringing. A DUI driver in Texas where four people died was given a ligh
sentence because his parents are rich and they spoiled him. Therefore, he
suffered from “affluenza”. Prosecutors cannot be allowed to
determine how someone felt when a crime was committed. A crime is crime
regardless of the offenders emotions at the time.
@David - Centerville, UT"The Left loves to point to
Trump’s rhetoric and claims it gives rise to violence, shootings, etc. but
there is plenty of hate speech here coming from the Left directed towards
religious groups, and in this state directed towards the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints." David, look at who is targeted more
often. According to the article Jews and Muslims. These are people who have
been historically attacked by far-right groups, and not the political left.It is fascinating to see that the FBI has this much data on this, but
cannot tell us how many times police shoot and kill people, and then break down
the statistics by race, religion, sex, etc...
I would just point out that these religious "hate crimes" are often
carried out by people from within these organizations.
"there is plenty of hate speech here coming from the Left directed towards
religious groups,"You've got a hate problem with "the
left". Get help!
With all of the radical rights hatred and the POTUS acceptance of white
nationalists, I expect hate crimes against non-Christians to continue to rise.
More evidence that we WILL stand hand in hand with other faiths to defend
ourselves from the evil.We need to start getting on board with that
I suspect nearly all violent and property damage type of crimes are actually
'hate crimes'.that have not necessarily been categorized as such in
the past, so I think this is more a re categorization of crimes that have
continually happened throughout the history of the US, unless they are actually
stating the number of overall violent or property damage type of crimes are
increasing. Sounds like we need more in depth analysis.
The Left loves to point to Trump’s rhetoric and claims it gives rise to
violence, shootings, etc. but there is plenty of hate speech here coming from
the Left directed towards religious groups, and in this state directed towards
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Is there a correlation with
their hate speach and the rise of hate crimes against the Church and other
religions? If Trump’s speech correlates, then certainly the Left’s
hate speech correlates.