Guest opinion: Religious liberty mattered to James Madison, it should matter to us

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  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 2:20 p.m.

    @Counter Intelligence;

    "I reject passive/aggressively weaponizing victimhood as a politically acceptable tool for hate"

    -- Why do you think it's "hate" to wish to be treated equally and NOT face discrimination in public places?

    "Intolerance almost always hides behind an otherwise noble goal
    It is naive to think that i ONLY religious conservatives are capable of intolerance; "

    -- Nobody has said that only religious conservatives are capable of intolerance; however, it is not intolerant to refuse to allow yourself to be discriminated against by religious conservatives.

    "See - i just advocated people be be treated equally"

    -- No, you still think that religious conservative business owners should be able to discriminate against LGBT customers in the name of their favorite superstition. Nobody (NOBODY) should have to face discrimination in the name of religion from a business. If you still think businesses should be allowed to discriminate against LGBT customers, you aren't advocating for equal treatment unless you advocate for LGBT businesses to be allowed discriminate against religious customers.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 1:53 p.m.

    @Ranch
    "Why do you hate equality? What harm does it do you to treat other people in the manner you'd like them to treat you? "

    You misrepresent me: I do not hate equality when things are equal
    I reject passive/aggressively weaponizing victimhood as a politically acceptable tool for hate

    Intolerance almost always hides behind an otherwise noble goal
    It is naive to think that i ONLY religious conservatives are capable of intolerance; indeed such attitudes indicate with a direct clarity that secular liberals are equally capable of intolerance - If you can hate in the name of God - you can do so in the name of other things too. The more fashionable the excuse, the more dangerous the potential. See - i just advocated people be be treated equally

  • Flipphone , 00
    Jan. 15, 2019 1:19 p.m.

    RedShirt - USS Enterprise, UTTo "Flipphone",

    it is the one that is set up exactly like what Jesus set up, and practices all of the doctrines found in the Bible.

    The Church that Christ established never left. and its over 2,000 years old, its called Christianity and is found in the New Testament.

  • Flipphone , 00
    Jan. 15, 2019 1:11 p.m.

    Its been a long slow posses, but slowly Utah is growing out of it's image as a one religion state.

  • Daniel L. Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 5:28 p.m.

    @ Hutterite - you obviously don't read these articles very closely. I suggest a much more thorough reading of all elements in the article before making such incredible statements.

    I think we take for granted the freedom of expression enjoyed in this country. While our founding fathers would be proud of the environment we have created that allows the free flow of so many differing ideas, of which religious freedom has granted us all. I think we, as a people, are missing the boat on that root of this freedom. But even then, I think we are still heading towards improved and greater freedom of expression than ever before. Religious freedom allows us all to speak our own conscious in the public arena, no matter the source of that opinion.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 1:32 p.m.

    To "Flipphone" it is the one that is set up exactly like what Jesus set up, and practices all of the doctrines found in the Bible.

    If you find the church that does all of that, then you have found God's church.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 1:30 p.m.

    @RedShirt;

    "...maybe the problem is something you don't want to consider. God is the author of our right."

    -- Until and unless you can prove your god even exists, it's nothing more than superstitious nonsense. Superstition isn't able to 'author' anything.

    @Counter Intelligence;

    "...Social Justice Warriors who don't seem to comprehend their "i hate intolerant people".

    -- Why do you hate equality? What harm does it do you to treat other people in the manner you'd like them to treat you?

    If it weren't for those "Social Justice Warriors" you so despise, you, I and most people today wouldn't enjoy the liberties and freedoms we have. You could even make the claim that the Founding Fathers were "Social Justice Warriors".

  • Flipphone , 00
    Jan. 14, 2019 12:33 p.m.

    RedShirt - USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 12:03 p.m.
    To "Karen R." maybe the problem is something you don't want to consider. God is the author of our right. God has also set up 1 true church on the earth.

    RedShirt, I'm interested in, which church is God 1 true church on the earth?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 12:03 p.m.

    To "Karen R." maybe the problem is something you don't want to consider. God is the author of our right. God has also set up 1 true church on the earth. Since the purpose of life is to see if you can choose God over Satan, even Satan gets the chance to set up churches. So, you get to choose between God's 1 true church, or a church that is not quite right. God doesn't force you to choose, that is Satan's plan.

    To "unrepentant progressive" should one person have the right to force you to do something that is contrary to your religious beliefs? How do you determine which right to allow to rule when two rights are in conflict?

    FYI, you don't have a right to receive service from a business (if you think that is a right then prove it), but you do have a right to practice your religion.

  • Flipphone , 00
    Jan. 14, 2019 11:16 a.m.

    Everyone should have the right of, Freedom of Religion, even here in Utah. No one should be allowed to knock on my door, and or approach me on the street and ask me what my faith is, and if different than theirs, be told that I'm wrong.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 10:35 a.m.

    @Karen R.
    "How about a guest opinion on why James Madison recognized that such protection was necessary? Isn't one of the reasons because so many believers are taught that their religion is the one right one and that some others are so mistaken as to be blasphemous?'

    Or perhaps an opinion on protection from secular fundamentalist Social Justice Warriors who don't seem to comprehend their "i hate intolerant people" "I judge you to be judgmental" arguments are nothing more than a fun house image of everything they claim to despise

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Jan. 14, 2019 7:34 a.m.

    “All men are entitled to the full and free exercise of (religious conscience).” Government, in turn, could only limit the right of conscience when “equal liberty, and the existence of the State (would) be manifestly endangered.”

    Isn't this the real story?

    If the full and free exercise of religion impeded equal liberty, then government may place limits upon it.

    As in equal liberty for women who seek a choice in reproductive choices, same sex couples seeking full legal rights, etc?

    Or is the word equal subject to interpretation?

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Jan. 13, 2019 1:57 p.m.

    How about a guest opinion on why James Madison recognized that such protection was necessary? Isn't one of the reasons because so many believers are taught that their religion is the one right one and that some others are so mistaken as to be blasphemous?

    Another possible point of consideration: If the Creator is the author of our rights, and religious liberty is one of them, it would be contradictory to tell some, "Yours is the one right religion and you have a moral imperative to pass that along" since that wouldn't be allowing for freedom of conscience. So either a) the Creator hasn't been telling folks there is one right way, or b) the Creator isn't the origin of the concept of religious liberty, (humans are), or c) both of the above.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Jan. 13, 2019 11:32 a.m.

    "permitting government to take the souls of our children" . . .

    What government agency is doing this "taking"?

    Seems to me the state is doing its best NOT to take souls, e.g., NOT forcing them to participate in school worship services. As a child, I was required to participate in the state-sponsored school prayer every morning. It was always a Mormon prayer. I knew there were 3 Catholics in my class and they always seemed uncomfortable.

    So who was "taking souls" back then?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 13, 2019 11:08 a.m.

    Every time we pine for religious freedom unfettered by the needs or rights of society at large (Infringement on one’s religious conscience is to take one’s soul without providing any compensation, an act of tyranny of the worst sort.), I'm reminded that every suicide bomber is just exercising their religious conscience.