Letter: The shutdown is hurting real people, families

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  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 10:22 a.m.

    @high school fan
    " Quit living paycheck to paycheck and have some savings."

    Some government jobs don't pay a lot like any of the part time work or anyone making around GS5 level pay.

    "You work for the government, these things happen or about happen all the time. "

    Length of shutdown matters:
    1980: 1 day
    1981: 1 day
    1984: 1 day
    1986: 1 day
    1990: 3 days (a weekend)
    1995: 5 days
    1995-96: 21 days (previous record)
    2013: 16 days (Republicans shutdown over attempts to defund the ACA)
    2018: 3 days (Democratic shutdown over DACA)
    current: 26 days

    The only ones that were long enough to hurt was 95-96, 2013, and this one. 3 in 40 years.

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 5:16 p.m.

    Tiffany,
    I feel for your cousin and all those affected by this govt. shutdown. Adding insult to injury, the President also froze scheduled pay raises for 2018. It is a shame that hardworking people aren't going to get their paychecks because the people in Washington aren't doing their jobs. Clearly, polls, even conservative polls, indicate the border wall is not popular among the majority of U.S. citizens. Republicans and Democrats have passed various legislation only to have the President, changing his mind, refuse to sign it.

    We take federal workers like your cousin for granted. Across the world we can see what happens when govt. isn't functional and doesn't put its citizens first, which is why we have many wanting to immigrate here.

    " Quit living paycheck to paycheck and have some savings. "

    Are we really going to start making judgments about people who are currently doing their jobs without pay? Good grief!

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Jan. 15, 2019 4:22 p.m.

    @high school fan

    “These Federal workers have missed one paycheck so far and they all act like it is the end of the world”

    The empathy in this post is underwhelming.

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 2:54 p.m.

    A few facts:
    Back in 1907, Theodore Roosevelt created a federal easement along the border through CA, New Mexico and Arizona called the Roosevelt Reservation. Along this easement there exists various types of fencing.

    However, two-thirds of the land along the remaining border is private or state-owned. And most of that land is in Texas, where much of the border does not already have fencing. The Trump administration would probably need to use eminent domain to acquire the remaining land needed to complete a border wall.

    "While fencing certainly contributed to fewer apprehensions at the U.S.-Mexico border, it is likely that several factors led to the drop. New border fencing often coincided with an increase in border patrol agents in the area. Apprehensions fell by half after the recession that ran from 2007 to 2009, when fewer economic opportunities in the U.S. may have deterred would-be migrants."
    (Bloomberg)

    When fences go up there is an increase in border crossing in other areas. Additionally, where fencing exists, tunnels are often created under the fence. It is an ongoing problem.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 2:52 p.m.

    These Federal workers have missed one paycheck so far and they all act like it is the end of the world, well it is not. Quit living paycheck to paycheck and have some savings. You work for the government, these things happen or about happen all the time. And you don't actually lose any money, when it is over they pay you everything you would have been paid. That is a good life, haven't worked but will still get paid and it doesn't count against time off.
    You want to solve the border problem, build two fences twenty feet apart and put wolves or cougars or alligators inside.

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 2:06 p.m.

    Frozen Fractals - ". If you want the wall then trade DACA for it in a separate immigration reform discussion, like a civilized person."

    They did offer that deal to the democrats and both Schummer and Pelosi rejected it.

    That is the rub, both sides reject anything from the other side because of "Ego" (IMO). Thus the shut down.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 10:54 a.m.

    @2bits
    "If you really feel so bad for these people... why not just pass a budget including the measly $5B (or even half of it and he said he would sign it)... and open the government?"

    It would be irresponsible to set a precedent whereby taking federal workers hostage becomes a successful means of getting what you want. If you want the wall then trade DACA for it in a separate immigration reform discussion, like a civilized person. And a wall would just be an eminent domain nightmare for people living on the border and an ecological disaster.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Jan. 14, 2019 7:29 p.m.

    @2 bits

    "Democrats, If you really feel so bad for these people... why not just pass a budget"

    They have, in the house, four of them. The Senate Republicans refuse to allow the appropriations legislation from the house to come up for discussion or vote in the Senate. It is the Senate's job to debate and vote and send to the President. To say they won't discuss anything the President won't sign is to abdicate their constitutionally enumerated duties to the Executive Branch. The Congress is keeper of the purse string, not the executive. Both branches need to learn that and do so quickly.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 12:28 p.m.

    Tiffany,
    Any idea how many real people are impacted by illegal immigration each year? The cop shot in CA was a real person.

    Know how much we already spend on Border Security?

    Google "The U.S. Already Spends Billions on Border Security - NBC News"...

    Know why?

    Not because of Trump. It goes back 24 years.

    Because it's a real problem, for real people.

    NBC:
    "Every appropriations bill has included money to secure the border. So much so that funding increased from $1.5 billion in 2005 to $2.3 billion in 2007, increasing to $3.8 billion in the 2015"...

    NBC:
    "Over the past 24 years, the amount of money spent on border security has increased 14 times; the number of border patrol agents have increased 500 percent; the amount of border wall has grown from 77 miles to 700 miles since 2000, and the number of people being apprehended trying to cross the border have decreased by four-fifths" (a sign it's working).

    We already have hundreds of miles of fence/wall/barriers. This isn't new. They aren't 100% effective, but they are 90% effective.

    Funding border security is not new. Just the Democrats tantrum over Trump wanting to increase it is new.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 11:55 a.m.

    @Irony Guy

    What we need is a high-tech "virtual wall" with detection capabilities and a much bigger border patrol to enforce it.
    ---
    The funding isn't just for a wall. It will help fund other Homeland Security improvements also.

    Google "House bill funds $5 billion for wall, adds ICE and Border Patrol agents"...

    Washington Examiner:
    "The Homeland Security appropriations subcommittee measure would fund more than 200 miles of “new physical barrier construction” along the U.S.-Mexico border. The legislation also includes $223 million to add 375 additional border patrol agents, including 140 canine teams, that, according to the House Appropriations Committee, will “initiate a five-year strategy toward achieving 100 percent scanning on the southern border.”

    It also funds drones, and additional CCTV cameras along with adding 200 miles of fence/wall to slow them down till more resources can get there.

    Just fund it and get people back to work. We can bicker about if it was the right thing to do in 2020.

    Truth is... it's not about the money or security for Democrats. It's about not being able to tolerate Trump getting the main thing he promised in his campaign. Plain and simple.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 11:37 a.m.

    Democrats,
    If you really feel so bad for these people... why not just pass a budget including the measly $5B (or even half of it and he said he would sign it)... and open the government?

    We spend money on things that are less important all the time. If the border security turns out to not be needed... at least we got these people back to work.

    Just pass a budget and send it to the President and get this closure over with.

    $5B isn't even a drop in the bucket. Just fund border security and lets get these people back to work!

    ===

    Trump isn't the first President to ask for money for border security improvements you know.

    Every President in my lifetime has asked for more money for border security, including Democrats.

    Just fund border security and move on.

    What's the damage in giving him this small amount of funding? We spend more than that on less important things. And the people trying to enforce our border security say we need it. Why not do it?

    ===

    Trump is right when he says this could be over in 15 minutes. All Congress has to do is give him this small amount of funding and it would be over.

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 10:27 a.m.

    @ one vote

    "The Donald wants to hurt people. See his mean tweets."

    Brilliant, just brilliant.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 10:07 a.m.

    The Donald wants to hurt people. See his mean tweets.

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 9:19 a.m.

    Tiffany says:

    "The shutdown is irresponsible. It's hurting real people and real families."

    Though that may be true, Tiffany, let me offer the counter-argument:

    The open border is irresponsible. It's hurting real people and real families.

    And although some federal workers are tightening their belts to deal with the shutdown, many thousands of Americans have lost their very lives at the hands of human trafficking, heroin and opioid overdoses, illegal alien criminals, MS13 gangsters. Many thousands of other Americans don't even have a job, or are working for depressed wages, due to the influx of low-skilled illegal immigrants working off the books or with stolen SS numbers.

    So, if you REALLY do care about American people suffering, you should support the wall and let your congressional delegates know that you do. The sooner we get the Democrats to fund the wall, the sooner those furloughed Americans can get back to work and the sooner all Americans can be safer and live the lives they hoped for.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Jan. 14, 2019 9:17 a.m.

    Tiffany

    It is folly to think that this administration gives one whit what the effects of a Presidential temper tantrum are. And worse folly to think that the governing party in the Senate and the White House will solve the 'crisis'. As long as the GOP blindly follows the lead of an untrustworthy President, things will only get worse.

    Sorry about your cousin. Sorrier about the people on planes who may be in danger because of Presidential behavior.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 8:51 a.m.

    To "ECR" you do know that if congress wanted to stick it to Trump that they could. It would only take them putting together a bill that is supported by enough people in the house and senate that they could override any Veto that Trump tried to implement.

    To "Irony Guy" who says the walls started in 2006 were not working? The data out there shows that where the walls have been put up that they work. There are multiple studies and and new articles showing that they work.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 7:44 a.m.

    Tiffany, who do you vote for? That might make a difference in the outcome of representation.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Jan. 14, 2019 7:11 a.m.

    @ECR "Congress and the President DID negotiate."

    I know. They need to keep doing it until the job is done.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 13, 2019 7:47 p.m.

    "Our representatives should consider the real lives of people suffering under this shutdown and reopen the government as soon as possible."

    Our "Representatives" have proven time and time again that they will put party over country. Us constituents are just a secondary concern. Your hopes are misplaced.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Jan. 13, 2019 11:18 a.m.

    Congress approved a physical barrier and the President signed it back in 2006.

    They stopped building at 617 miles. Why? Because it wasn't working.

    There were nearly 10,000 breaks in the wall between 2010 and 2015. Ladders, tunnels, even dynamite were used.

    What we need is a high-tech "virtual wall" with detection capabilities and a much bigger border patrol to enforce it.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 13, 2019 10:50 a.m.

    Nate - Congress and the President DID negotiate. The president said he would sign the bill that Senate Leader McConnell presented to the Senate and they passed that bill with a unanimous voice vote. But then the president changed his mind and then Speaker Ran presented a different bill that the Senate would not pass. Now the newly elected Speaker Pelosi has presented the exact same bill that passed the Senate by voice vote and it was approved by the House but now Senate Minority leader McConnell refuses the bring that bill forward because the president no longer supports it. But what he's not saying is that if the Senate were to voyte on that identical bill and send it to the president, he would either have to sign it, or veto it, or leave it unsigned for ten days at which time the bill would become law. The latter option seems to work for everyone. Congress could put federal workers back to work and the president could say he opposed the bill that did not fund his wall. So it seems there are just two people responsible for the shutdown President Trump and Senate Leader McConnell. They are the ones that need to grow up and stop punishing people who just want to work.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Jan. 13, 2019 9:37 a.m.

    Loose borders also hurt people. This is a political problem with a political solution. Congress approved a physical barrier, but has not approved its funding. Congress and the President need to negotiate.