Don Bixby: The teaching in college is generally horrific.
I know Irony Guy is being ironic here:"I'm smart, I know a
head from a foot, and most important, I've had a physical body of my own
for many years, so that makes me an expert on bodies."But
let's be fair. A better comparison would be something like the person being
a biologist, so being an actual expert on bodies. And then trying to become a
doctor without a license. The people we're talking about not being licensed
teachers need to be actual experts in their field, just not trained as a teacher
specifically. There's a big difference between being a subject expert and a
teaching expert, but please don't mix them up and just say that because
they aren't a teaching expert that means they are not a subject expert
either.At the university level, we look for PhDs, who are subject
experts and experts at research, but very few actually learn to teach in their
programs (unless their doctorate is in education). I think the only reason this
works is that college students are adults and have to take part of the
responsibility for their learning. In elementary and secondary ed, you have to
have someone who really knows how to teach.
If a teacher is really good at teaching and putting up with the mandated
unproductive red-tape and busy-work...they are rewarded with a job in a brick
office building as an "administrator", never having the occasion to
stand in front of those very same students. Don't believe me? In the
average school district, where do you find the most highly-credentialed
professionals? Not in front of actual students. The teachers that actually do
the "heavy lifting" dealing with the problems of undisciplined children
(and their undisciplined parents) get rewarded with constant "performance
appraisals", audits, reports, phone calls to unresponsive parents, etc. The
whole system is on its way to collapse, imho. And no, I am not a teacher, but I
wouldn't be one for three times the salary they offer.
Being fifty one in the nation of teaching salaries, that's right Puerto
Rico salaries were higher than Utah's for years when I was teaching. Now
the governor is begging retired teachers to come back and now the state school
board is now looking what they can do. It's a little to late don't
I have decided to put out my shingle as a medical doctor.I'm
smart, I know a head from a foot, and most important, I've had a physical
body of my own for many years, so that makes me an expert on bodies. Who needs a license?
Good teachers aren't the result of teaching certificates just like good
doctors aren't the result of a doctorate degree or good plumbers the result
of a plumbing license....BUT, those hoops that teachers, doctors, plumbers and
other professionals must go through do help weed out some of the bad ones and
help the good ones hone their craft.The training I received as an
undergraduate student and a graduate student were absolutely vital to my current
ability to teach. I know that I may not be the best teacher, but I certainly
would not be as good as I am without my training prior to receiving my teaching
certificate, the training I have received as an educator, and the training I
received in my master's program.The truth is that teaching
students requires an individual to not only understand his/her subject matter
but also how to deal with young people on a daily basis. Many people have the
basic knowledge of certain subject matters to teach, but not the ability to work
What does a license have to do with being a good teacher?
I have thought about going back to teaching. I really miss it. I had to retire
because of an illness. I wouldn't mind going back part time, but when I see
the requirements I need to get relicensed, I change my mind. They are
ridiculous. I was bored enough in college with education classes. Don't
think I can't take 200 more hours and additional requirements to renew it.
Rather be pecked to death by ducks.
Until people recognize the complexity of teaching, nothing will change. The
comments here indicate the lack of respect for the profession and understanding
of the challenges that accompany the job of teaching. Sad, indeed.
@Utah Girl Chronicles"Two were teachers; two were counselors;
all were licensed; none were in Utah." There have been four I
know of in the last 5+ years of certified teachers right here in Utah (Davis,
Herriman, Provo, Spanish Fork, and she gave him drugs. All certified)"Those university childhood development classes and related education
coursework helped me make better decisions and fully understand how vital my
role was." If you need classes to tell you that a teaching role
is vital. It might be time to rethink your profession. "There
are people who love the concept of aviation but don't know how to fly a
plane. That's the concept you seem to be endorsing." Nope,
but you may just have proved my point above. Apples and Oranges. Using
something technical compared to something that is not. I would gladly send my
child to a class room with non-certified teacher, who cares about the kids, and
teaches them the lesson plan. If you need help dealing with kids. Then you
shouldn't be a teacher. It is not hard."I would not be
comfortable having a child whose teacher or counselor was not licensed." I Would take no certification over a self absorbed teacher any day.
Here we go with the everlasting myth of "there are plenty of people like
retirees and business people that would love to teach part time or even full
time".I'll break it gently.No there
aren't.Every time we had a "business person" come teach
at my kids' middle school, they lasted about 3 weeks before jumping ship.
This left them in an even bigger predicament. We had 3 professors from the
university come teach to "stay in touch" and they lasted one
semester.There is one solution and only one. Pay teacher a salary
that competes with their business counterparts. Don't give me the
"only work 9 months" garbage either. If we want good teachers, we
simply need to pay them a competitive salary AND give them some time off in the
summer to recuperate from the craziness of herding and teaching 180+ kids a day.
@ UtahBruinTwo were teachers; two were counselors; all were
licensed; none were in Utah. Early in my career, I was a mid-year replacement
for a licensed teacher who lost her job due to a relationship with a student. I
did not think of her in my earlier comment.Many things can go wrong
during a teaching day. On average, I taught 130 kids in five classes in addition
to other supervisory duties. Those university childhood development
classes and related education coursework helped me make better decisions and
fully understand how vital my role was. Before I returned to college, I was a
telecommunications consultant for US Sprint at one of their seven corporate
offices in the US. That experience alone would not have made me a good
teacher.There are people who love the concept of aviation but
don't know how to fly a plane. That's the concept you seem to be
endorsing. There are intricacies and nuances to teaching that people off the
street would not know. Believing otherwise jeopardizes our kids.I
would not be comfortable having a child whose teacher or counselor was not
licensed. If licensed teachers can do the things I've described, imagine
what unlicensed teachers can do.
@liberal LarryApples and Oranges!
I notice people who believe in the "innately talented teacher" theory
don't seem to hold the same logic when it comes to doctors, air traffic
controllers, and airline pilots!Hey, I'm good with numbers, but
it would require years of training to become a CPA!
Just because someone has not jumped through all the administrative hoops or had
all the required training does not mean they are underqualified. And too many
who have all the credentials are not really qualified.Utah girlWere those four teachers unlicensed? You certainly infer that but do not state
it directly. And how many licensed teachers have been forced out and/or
convicted because of inappropriate contact? Surely you’re not trying to
infer that a license is a sure means of preventing the kind of instances to
which you refer.
@Utah GirlRidiculous! So I guess certified teachers don’t have
“inappropriate contact” with a child. I guess of the many
situations where this has happened. It’s always been a non-certified
teacher, right? WRONG!
I happen to know personally a handful of teachers who are not certified at all
levels, and they are ten times the teacher than most in the Alpine School
District. They are their because they want to be there, and they care about the
kids. I definitely agree with utahute69. If you want better teachers.1) Get rid of the tenure they get, and the complacencies of them being
protected, where the classroom is a place the go and sit for the hours
throughout the day.2) Increase pay, this will allow school leaders to be
more selective in the hiring process because you will have more looking at the
profession.3) And get rid of all of the wasteless meetings, surveys, and
other garbage they make teachers do throughout the day when they should be
teaching and interacting with the kids.4) Don’t just hire any Joe
Schmo, start hiring people for who they are rather than what their resume or a
piece of paper says. Credentials mean nothing, if they can’t interact
with students.5) Teachers need to teach how students need to be taught,
ever kid learns differently. And they need to quit trying to just prove how
smart they are by failing a young student because they are not on the lot level.
May I also remind the Board of Education, in June of 2016, they approved a new
rule that would make it easier for schools to fill teaching vacancies by
allowing them to hire people who can meet some minimum criteria, including
having a bachelor’s degree, paying the applicable licensing fee and
passing a test. They left the veteran teachers to mentor the new
teachers for a few years.Now they wonder?
During my fourteen years as a licensed teacher, there were four instances where
teachers "disappeared" from our staff due to inappropriate contact with
kids. When you open the door to unlicensed teachers, you invite more
problems, problems that can damage children. The State Board of Education needs
to realize that "he's a really bright guy" has no equation in the
development and education of children. That's playing with fire.
Hmmm... Maybe if teachers got better pay and more respect there wouldn't
be this problem.
The so called teaching certificate has always caused me to wonder why those
possessing the certificate are not always good teachers. Yes I can see a
certificate for early childhood levels through elementary grades. But, after
that, there are people that are highly qualified in various academic backgrounds
that may just have an innate ability to teach and may, in fact, have a far
better understanding of the subject matter than a certified teacher. When did
we last see a teaching certificate required for college professors. Right,
there are no teaching certificates for college professors. There are a
significant number of people that are willing and able to teach specific
subjects on a part-time basis or even on a full time basis, including retirees.
Any one with education and practical experience in engineering, medicine,
business, etc., could easily be great teachers without certification.
Certification doesn't guarantee create better teaching professionals.
Hire people that are willing to use their time to help kids and are not burned
out after years of the same old same old. Private schools do it all the time
and usually generate better results.
Gee. All these years of low pay, cut benefits and retirement, and we don't
have qualified teachers on a waiting list? Best managed state?