@silo"Cite ANY measurable statistic where you believe the Clintons
were less honest than Trump. Any measurable statistic."number of
women that claimed that their sexual assault rose to the ultimate levelnumber of people killed then rationalized by an anti-Muslim videonumber of bullets claimed to be shot at by snipersnumber of emails
claimed to be lostetc.
marigold--Bob Woodward makes an excellent point about truth in the media in the
panel discussion the DN had with Woodward and Elder Christofferson. You would
like hearing the whole thing. The Q & A at the end are very good. Aside to answer your question--I think it's very likely Obama thought
people could keep their doctor--many did and many others couldn't. It
doesn't mean Obama planned to lie about it.
"Will honesty and integrity be on trial in 2019?" Yes. What
will we tolerate?
Didn't Barack Obama state that Hillary Clinton was the most qualified
person to be President in the history of our country?Was a bigger
mis-truth ever spoken?Of course, Obama supporters will just pass off
that statement as his opinion.🤔
Donald Trump is far from perfect, but he sure is a heck of a President!Bill Clinton and Barack Obama had their own "challenges" as well.God bless America.
NeifyT - Salt Lake City, UT---@Edmunds Tucker,According
to the Bible (I note you are quoting from the Mormons' scriptures); Sarah
was indeed Abraham's sister (half sister anyway);---The
story of Abraham, his Wife and the Pharaoh (Genesis 12), is an example of
misrepresentation, since Sarah was both half-sister and wife, and Abraham chose
not to reveal the marital status. Abraham apparently didn't learn his
lesson well, and the story was repeated(Genesis 20) with a different ruler.But in any case, Abraham was never really punished for his lies.Is that the take away lesson for the present era?If the
underlying lesson is that 'lying for a greater good' can be justified,
what are the grounds.Lying to save Jews from death camps. Is that
justified?Most of the lies that the article pointed to, such as
lying about cheating, etc. were to save the person from some sort of justice.
The lies where not justifiable on any ground such as preservation of life.
@counter intelligence"OR: claiming Bill and Hillary were more honest
requires willful blindness on an epic scale"Cite ANY measurable
statistic where you believe the Clintons were less honest than Trump. Any
measurable statistic.Number of lies, severity of lies, number of
affairs, number of harassment lawsuits, number of insults thrown, number of
bankruptcies, number of illegals hired, number of labor lawsuits. All lean
overwhelmingly against Trump.
NeifyT - Salt Lake City, UT---I have gone back through the video
archives of many different news sources; and found that the Obama administration
was still perpetuating the lie about the video being the reason for the Benghazi
attack for THREE full weeks after the attack, even after the main stream media
finally started becoming skeptical themselves the administration kept up the
lie, until it was proven false by the media, then they finally admitted it had
nothing to do with the video.---There is a problem with this,
in that in many, many instances, there exists a national 'interest' to
not actually state the truth. Eisenhower's denial that the US conducted spy
plane flyovers of the Soviet Union, until Gary Powers was shot down, comes to
mind.In such cases the choice is either 'no comment' which
is almost a guaranteed affirmation of the claim, or a 'denial', a lie,
or The Truth, and perhaps may be considered an act of war.But in the
case of Trump, the pettiness of the lies and misrepresentations, is beyond
understandable in terms of such national interests.
Edmunds Tucker "Ironically, then Candidate Trump, spoke the truth, and now
President Trump speaks the truth."Really, cause I have yet to
hear a speech where he uses the truth, not one, not during his campaign, not
during his presidency, not in his childish tweets.Can you point me
to one honest speech by our president? I know it's like the perjury trap,
@Edmunds Tucker,According to the Bible (I note you are quoting from
the Mormons' scriptures); Sarah was indeed Abraham's sister (half
sister anyway); yet they got married. What does that say about the family tree?
Man marries his half sister, has a son who goes on to marry his first cousin
once removed; that son also has a son that goes on to marry not one but two of
his first cousins!Inbreeding was just a part of their culture back
Re: "Can anyone say with a straight face that our current president is
"honest, wise, and good"? Anyone? Anyone?"Of course not.
But, therein lies the problem.We haven't been faced with a
genuine choice of an honest, wise, and good candidate for several generations,
now. That leaves us with having to choose between bad and not-quite-as-bad.It is certainly also true that no one could, with a straight face,
suggest that Hillary was a more honest, more good, or more wise choice than the
President. So, we, like generations of our forebears, were stuck with deciding
which would do the least damage to the Nation.The President, with
his healing of the economy; his lessening of "the capital's"
regulatory and economic strangulation of "the districts;" his honoring
of his commitment to appoint judges and justices that will use the Constitution
as a guide, rather than as an epithet; his recognition of the evil in
dictatorial enemy regimes and the need to control our borders; and his
championing, rather than abandoning, God's Chosen People; has definitely
shown entitlement to the designation of "lesser-of-two evils."
@Edmunds Tucker: What truth does trump speak that the media doesn't
want to hear? The media reports what trump says. If he says something that is
true it will come out as truth. When he says something that is not accurate and
provably false (5,000 times so far) then it is easily proven as false. So
far there have been 5,000 provably false claims trump as made. How is that the
media's fault?As for him being a self made billionaire, you may
want to check the facts. trump inherited over $450M. He lost it. He's been
loaned billions of dollars since he lost his inheritance and he's lost the
money on those loans six more times. He's lost so much money he can no
longer get loans from American banks, he has to go to Russia to get loans
now.Had trump put that $450M inheritance into index funds he would truly
be a billionaire today. Instead his wealth is questionable, at best.
It is one thing to be wrong or state something wrong unintentionally. But to
give bold-face lies to anyone is completely over the top and wrong. Both parties have been guilty of this. And the media has been outrageous
about this as they spread half-truths and spin their lies as well. It really is
an insult to the public who are played off as pawns.Everyone should
take a stand for truth and challenge any lies. If the truth can make us free
then lies can corrupt and bring us into bondage. Demand better than this from
political parties and the press, whether DN or others.
@Frozen Fractals An honest and informed person would not say that the
video was a cause of the Benghazi attack when they knew on the very day that it
happened that it was not the cause. An honest and informed media would
not allow the "cloud of war" narrative to be unchallenged until Obama
could obfuscate culpabilityAn honest and informed Obama administration
would not prosecute video director Nakoula Basseley Nakoula as a scapegoat for
their guilt (at last report he was homeless in LA)@silo"To
claim Trump was elected Hillary because he was less dishonest is a dishonest
statement in any measurable capacity." OR: claiming Bill and Hillary
were more honest requires willful blindness on an epic scale @Irony
Guy"Can anyone say with a straight face that our current president is
"honest, wise, and good"? Anyone? Anyone?" I cannot - but i can
state completely sober and straight faced that he is better than the provided
alternatives (incl. Clinton Gilliibrand, Hirono, Harris, Schumer, Schiff, etc.).
I can also state that i prefer uncouth and boorish over manipulative and
passive/aggressive@NeifyTExactly DN "Civility" seems
to have a distinct bent
Ironically, then Candidate Trump, spoke the truth, and now President Trump
speaks the truth. The majority of journalists writing in Washington didn't
want to hear it. How do we know? He is a self made billionaire, and
doesn't have to make promises to donors and tell them what they want or
need to hear.
Book of Abraham. Chapter 1. 22 And it came to pass when I was come near to enter
into Egypt, the Lord said unto me: Behold, Sarai, thy wife, is a very fair woman
to look upon;23 Therefore it shall come to pass, when the Egyptians shall
see her, they will say—She is his wife; and they will kill you, but they
will save her alive; therefore see that ye do on this wise:24 Let her say
unto the Egyptians, she is thy sister, and thy soul shall live.25 And it
came to pass that I, Abraham, told Sarai, my wife, all that the Lord had said
unto me—Therefore say unto them, I pray thee, thou art my sister, that it
may be well with me for thy sake, and my soul shall live because of thee.Genesis 12. 14 ¶ And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into
Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair.15 The
princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman
was taken into Pharaoh’s house.18 And Pharaoh called Abram, and
said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that
she was thy wife?19 Why saidst thou, She is my sister?Early fake
Re: "Will honesty and integrity be on trial in 2019?"Unlikely. The Dem Deep State seems too deeply entrenched.Fortunately for the Nation, the honesty and integrity of Obama's
appointees to his [in]Justice Department -- particularly the
"non-partisan" FBI -- has already been so thoroughly besmirched by the
truths belatedly and reluctantly released by a lapdog media, that no trial is
necessary to cast a real-life re-make of "Seven Days in May," with
Lyin' Jim Comey in the Burt Lancaster role.There are so many
other Deep-Staters to be cast in the other conspiratory, secret-combination
roles that such a re-make would constitute a genuine, star-studded Washington
blockbuster.While no one argues the President is a paragon of either
honesty or virtue, it's the semi-anonymous and wildly ambitious
Deep-Staters, along with their unindicted co-conspirators in the
"mainstream" media that are genuinely scary.Our Nation has
survived a great number of political cads, but the danger of secret combinations
is patent -- though their members may be less so.
In electing leaders, say the LDS scriptures, "Honest men and wise men should
be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold;
otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil." (Doctrine and
Covenants 98:10)Can anyone say with a straight face that our current
president is "honest, wise, and good"? Anyone? Anyone?
@Frozen Fractals,I have gone back through the video archives of many
different news sources; and found that the Obama administration was still
perpetuating the lie about the video being the reason for the Benghazi attack
for THREE full weeks after the attack, even after the main stream media finally
started becoming skeptical themselves the administration kept up the lie, until
it was proven false by the media, then they finally admitted it had nothing to
do with the video.Washing was being briefed in real time as the
attack occurred, if they didn't understand the gravity within the first
couple hours I would give them a pass. But within 24 hours after the attack
there is no way they didn't already know that it was a very carefully
planned out attack that had nothing to do with the video at all; yet they kept
the lie up for three full weeks.
Honesty and integrity have been on trial since the before the earth was created
and will be on trial until the second coming of the Savior. I like many posters
find it interesting how honesty and interity is now an important topic by the
media because Trump is president, but was given very little consideration when
Clinton was president and made somr pretty big lies like with Monica Lewinsky
and the big lie Clinton told about their being a terrorist crisis in order to
keep the senate from impeaching him until the new year when a new senate was
sworn in. Or when Bush Jr. lied about there being WMDs in Iraq as an excuse to
goto war. Or Obama and his administration who told as many lies daily as the
media accuses Trump of doing including Benghazi being caused by a video,
Obamacare, and Hillary email scandal. Where was the level scrutiny by the media
during the previous 3 presidential administrations or even during any
presidential administration that occured before Trump. Only now because Trump
beat Hillary despite the media saying it was catagorically impossible, that
honesty and integrity becomes important. Why now and not before???
Sad State of affairs. Pun intended. Maybe I believe that Trump's lies are
more prolific because he is in the news more often but I question those that
still believe in him as a great leader.
@Counter Intelligence"Is the DN pining for the good old days
when Susan Rice declared Benghazi was caused by an anti-Muslim video (which she
knew was untrue but Obama needed to win an election in a couple of
weeks)?"An honest and informed person would say that within a
couple weeks of the attack (and still weeks before the election) the
administration had come out and said the attack was separate from the worldwide
protests that same day that were in reaction to the video.
@usalover"Donald J Trump is the most courageous President in the last
100 years "Courageous? Donald J Trump as a
civilian drew 5 medical deferments from Vietnam due to bone spurs. Deferments
which recently were alleged to be falsified as a favor to Trump's father to
keep his son from serving.Donald J Trump as President saluted a
North Korean general almost a year before he saluted his first deployed US
@marigold"Pelosi's candor, actually, that we have to pass the law
to find out what is in it"That's not what Pelosi said, and
that's not what Pelosi meant.The text of her speech is readily
available online, as is the context details and audience details of that
speech.Yet, here on an article about honesty and integrity, you
misrepresent Pelosi's words in your comment targeting Pelosi about her
honesty and integrity
@counter intelligence"Honesty and integrity were on trial in 2016 -
that is why a man as bombastic as Trump was able to beat the Clintons"Bill and Hillary clearly have their issues, but there is no measurable,
objective data that has Bill nor Hillary anywhere near the same arena as Trump
in terms of ethical, moral and legal lapses. Not in quantity, not in severity,
not in frequency.To claim Trump was elected Hillary because he was
less dishonest is a dishonest statement in any measurable capacity.
Will honesty and Will honesty and integrity be on trial in 2019? be on trial in
2019?Probably not. However, dishonesty and corruption will be, when
Mueller files his report.It's not looking good for dishonesty
and corruption this year as the enabling GOP, won't be able to keep
protecting a corrupt administration so that they can push thru their pet
projects, of giving to the wealthy and corporations, while leaving hard working
Americans on the hook for Donald's vanity wall of waste.Got to
love the Trump fans, can point to individual lies, some not even that, from
previous leaders, where room would not allow even a small percentage of
Donald's many, many, many falsehoods.
“You can go with the flow when it comes to consuming news. You have to be
be critically questioning about the information you
see.”Yet every time I try to critically ask questions about
the news on this website, I get blocked! A bit of a double standard there; for
such a news agency to be running this whole series; but not allow people to do
what the series is telling them to do (such as be critical of the news being
Honesty and integrity were on trial in 2016 - that is why a man as bombastic as
Trump was able to beat the ClintonsIt is truly a sad period in time
when an un-tempered Trump is (and remains) the better alternativeIs
the DN pining for the good old days when Susan Rice declared Benghazi was caused
by an anti-Muslim video (which she knew was untrue but Obama needed to win an
election in a couple of weeks)?The fact that the media is just now
considering "honesty and integrity" is telling regarding the state of
Donald J Trump is the most courageous President in the last 100 years and the
best policy President in my life time.May the haters of the
President choose to love truth and the country more than they hate the man.
It's become obvious that the value of "truth" has been out-weighed
by the desire to maintain power and authority on one side and the preservation
of one's own paradigm on the other. Whether we are talking about politics,
religion, economics or philosophy very few of us are willing to lay our
"sacred cows" of closely held beliefs upon the altar of critical
thinking and allow for the possibility of being wrong, and open ourselves up to
a change of mind. The information age has provided unlimited sources of
confirmation bias that allows us to dial in the exact recipe of "fake
news" to fit our present view of the world. In that bubble of tailored
disinformation we can all prove the cliche that ignorance is bliss, and the only
time we can suffer the discomfort of cognitive dissonance is if we accidentally
tune into the wrong channel, or talk to the wrong person. I'm highly
suspicious of any "expert opinion" coming from sources that have an
obvious bias and an institutional power structure to serve and protect.
Consequently, your special report that tends to point the finger in one
direction rather than in all directions (including back at itself) seems to be
more of the same.
Am I missing something in this article? Was the Obama administration held under
the same scrutiny? I remember the big lie about being able to keep my doctor
under the not-so-affordable health care act...Pelosi's candor, actually,
that we have to pass the law to find out what is in it...the former
administration's insistence that Benghazi's terror act that killed a
U.S. Ambassador (and others defending him) were the results of a video...Ben
Rhodes's admission that the Iran Deal and the money sent to Iran on an
unmarked plane were the results of an "Echo chamber" the previous
administration deliberately created on a hapless media...I could go on and on.
Please, give me an article that is fair and balanced. I'm not trying to
excuse any tall tales from the current administration, but so far, with the
constant media scrutiny and, bias, there are no tall tales and President Trump
is very open with the press. Perhaps, if the press were put under the same
daily microscope we'd actually have news reporting without the obvious
Truth is very precious; it is a rare commodity anywhere on this planet. Not even
all of what are termed to be facts are completely true, if true at all. Errors
in observing, which are extremely common. Errors in analysis which are common,
especially when biases, even unintended biases are taken into account. The
killing of Jazmine Barnes in Houston is a prime example of unintended bias at
best. Opinions clearly drive assessment of facts; especially in deciding which
facts to emphasize and which to discount or ignore. It may be productive to
examine untruths, examples of which could be labeled as : euphemisms; partial
truths including so-called half- truths ( implying half -lies ); truths with
some of the truth omitted deliberately, or even ignorantly; statements based on
wrong information, to some degree, or incomplete information ( and when do we
ever know if the full story is known ? ); opinion-driven statements made as
assertions in a given political stance. We have been subjected to the above from
the time we heard an advertisement or a cause promoted from time immemorial.
Quite a problem we have; time to rely on the 'grain of salt' method or
Missouri's "show me" attitude.
A discussion among media elites about the honesty and integrity is pretty much
sending foxes to discuss how to best guard chicken coops. Especially when the
Associated Press and CNN are involved. The "news media" should be the
target of investigations about honesty and integrity, rather than the
inquisitors.While the Trump administration rightly deserves
criticism for its misrepresentations, those of Democrats certainly are at least
as egregious. Clinton was convicted of lying under oath and disbarred.
Obama's health care promises and Iran deal are phony as anything Trump has
said. Hillary Clinton's shady "Foundation" and her illegal email
arrangements are very far from the truth, even if not yet proven to be actual
criminal acts.Given the reported 90% or higher negative coverage by
the media towards Trump, we must note that "lies" include failing to
report the whole truth and selectively reporting to hide favorable information
and sloppy vetting of negative tidbits.The truth is important, not
Orwellian doublespeak about the truth, or the propagation of "news"
which is false or incomplete.Heal thyself!
Today, we are confronting outright, bald faced, naked lies on a daily basis that
undermine national sovereignty.
It is sad that someone has to feel the need to hide or alter the truth in an
effort to make gains for his or her own way of thinking. "You can fool some
of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time."
Eventually lies and untruths have a way of coming back to haunt you.
A lot of Utahns believe, away from politics “ that governments were
instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for
their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for
the good and safety of society.”Most of those same Utahns also
believe “that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are
framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of
conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.That belief also is ‘that all governments “require civil
officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will
administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the
voice of the people”.We believe in law and order. However,
some of our elected leaders have maybe been beguiled by pride in their abilities
and have failed to hold to the oath they swore allegiance to when they raised
their hand for us.We have had mostly good Presidents in our
country’s history. Almost all have defended our country without owing
allegiance to foreign countries.We need leaders to enforce the laws
of our nation and state not pander.
I agree with most of this, but I find it absolutely amazing you could say all of
this without mentioning Trump's great 4 year long BIRTHER lie. Amazing.
When will the D-News' kid glove treatment of Trump end? You don't
have much time.
Trump has confiscated the notes from Honesty and Integrity and has sworn them
both to silence.
It's amazing to me that the Deseret News seems so concerned about honesty
and integrity now while Donald Trump is the President but never brought up the
issue when Barack Obama was President. Also, it makes sure that in the article
that four people associated with the Trump campaign have been indicted while
neglecting the fact that the indictments have nothing to do with the Trump
campaign. Perhaps the Deseret News need to examine it's sources and it may
realize that honesty and integrity are in question primarily because of an
anti-Trump bias in the Press rather than the Trump administration. Perhaps the
DN will also realize that they also have fallen in the same trap.
"Americans — and especially Republicans — are also more tolerant
of leaders who lie, the same poll revealed."Even though
Democrats never lie, would never vote for one. Proud to be a Republican.
Your polls are deceiving. Stating Republicans accept lying more than Democrats?
When you show something like that as you did through the article you need to
show the whole picture.
If we are looking for honesty and integrity in Washington, D.C., we will be
looking for a very long time. The parties have become exactly what George
Washington warned us of in his farewell address. While it makes for great
theater, like the Colosseum of Rome, it leaves lives and families broken and
cast aside and endangers our republic. I would not place any hope in our leaders
on either side of the partisan isle in bringing truth and integrity back to
government. This predicament is not a product of Trump. He is a product of the
I do think honesty and integrity are taking a backseat to tribal loyalty right
now. To the historians out there, is this any different than it was during our
last Civil War? Because I do think we're in a state of war right now.
Fortunately a nonviolent one, but a war all the same.
What we desperately need in 2019 is some honesty and integrity especially from
our White House and Congress.