Fact check: Is there an immigration crisis at the border as President Trump claims? Here's what we found

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  • SportzzFan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 16, 2019 3:12 p.m.

    "“A huge and growing backlog of applications in the hundreds of thousands has created perverse incentives for would-be migrants to file spurious asylum claims, because these can allow them to remain in the U.S. for years while their cases wait to be processed,” according to a Bloomberg editorial. “The backlog doesn’t discourage bogus asylum seekers, as you might suppose; it does the opposite.”"

    So, they claim asylum, get in, have a baby and everyone gets to stay forever?

    Meanwhile immigrants from other countries go through a legitimate screening process, wait and wait and wait.

    Put up the barrier that Clinton and Obama after him asked for, and let's all move on.

  • Spellman789 Syracuse, UT
    Jan. 15, 2019 3:22 p.m.

    There is no reason to keep the government closed because of the border issue. Federal workers financial lives are being hurt significantly. Politicians made this mess, not them.

  • GoodNightNurse ,
    Jan. 15, 2019 12:52 p.m.

    I can't help but note that all of the sources that you site are ultra liberal and therefore very one sided.
    Where was the outcry when Obama referred to the "Border Crisis" on the record?
    Where was the outcry when HRC referred to the "Border Crisis" on the record?
    Where was the outcry when George Bush referred to the "Border Crisis" on the record?
    Where was the outcry when Bill Clinton referred to the "Border Crisis" on the record.
    Where was the outcry when Shumer and Pelosi and a host of other sitting Democrats referred to the "Border Crisis", ALL ON THE RECORD.
    Everyone, for years, has agreed that there has been and is a Crisis on our Southern Border and also agreed and appropriated monies for a barrier to be built. The ONLY difference now is that it is TRUMP who is asking for it, and they hate him; a rabid, mindless hatred.
    They blather about the wasteful expense of building the wall, while thinking NOTHING of the 150B PER YEAR that we taxpayers are expected to pay to foot the bill for all of the illegal immigrants who are living within the borders of our nation already. And WE are supposed to feel guilty for wanting them to knock.

  • Dpetty1 ,
    Jan. 14, 2019 10:08 a.m.

    300,000+ apprehended. How many people, drugs, weapons, etc. have gotten through the border without being detected? The democrats plan for the border is to install a Ring Doorbell and leave the front door open. I can't take people seriously who live insulated from the mess. Obama- wall around his house, Clinton- wall around her house. Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, etc walls, gated communities, they all have armed protection. We have a poverty problem in America. Employers will pay less to illegals and treat them poorly because they know they won't complain. Instead of supporting a $15 minimum wage, support e-verify and all those entry positions will be open to citizens looking for work. Billions of dollars every year are made by illegal aliens (cash under the table, or filed with a stolen or fake SS number) and sent back to their home countries. We are a sovereign nation, and the NUMBER ONE job of government, the President's main priority, is to keep America safe. Congress, give him the funding, build the wall.

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    Jan. 11, 2019 3:16 p.m.

    @ ZIONFORMAN

    "Walls work. Quit stalling."

    There are, by my count, 23 USA counties that adjoin the Mexico border. In the 2016 election, 17 of those counties preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump.

    Currently, there are 17 members of US Congress who represent districts that adjoin the Mexican border. 15 of 17 of those elected representatives are against Trump's wall.

    The question is what do you know about walls that these legislators and their millions of constituents don't know? All these people literally live on the border. I don't think you do.

  • ZION4MAN Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2019 1:53 p.m.

    During 1986 The US Border Patrol caught more than 600,000 illegal border crosser's in the San Diego sector.
    In 1991 The US government built a 46 mile long, 8 to 10 foot tall, primary fence between Tijuana, Mexico and San Diego, California to stop the illegal vehicle traffic into the US.
    In 1997 The US government built a 13 mile long, 14 to 18 foot high, secondary fence between Tijuana, Mexico and San Diego, California to stop the illegal foot traffic.
    During 2015 on the San Diego sector of the US border only 26,290 illegals were apprehended.
    The US Department of Homeland Security reports that illegal border crosser's have decreased by 90% since the walls were built.
    Walls work. Quit stalling.

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    Jan. 11, 2019 12:39 p.m.

    @ SaysTheFox

    "In the early 80’s I had friends who lived on an unassuming street in a Chula Vista, where twice a day vans and busses would drop off hundreds and thousands of Illegal Aliens."

    Just doing simple math: if a bus holds 50 passengers, it would take 20 buses to move 1,000 people. You say twice a day? That must have been a very busy "unassuming" street.

    Chula Vista and San Ysidro are primarily Hispanic communities. How do you know the people were illegal aliens?

    Hyperbole aside, San Diego is regarded as one of the safest big cities in the country.

    Maybe you should go back and get a fresher view of your 35-year-old memories.

  • slcman SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 11, 2019 11:41 a.m.

    The fact that Trump and the Republican-controlled house and senate did not make this a priority over the past two years causes me to question whether they themselves really believe it is a crisis.

  • SaysTheFox American Fork, UT
    Jan. 11, 2019 11:42 a.m.

    I’m a California Refugee- I fled the crime, high taxes and corrupt politics years ago.
    In the early 80’s I had friends who lived on an unassuming street in a Chula Vista, where twice a day vans and busses would drop off hundreds and thousands of Illegal Aliens. People would scatter. That’s what it’s called.
    The invasion over 30 years has worked: everything is in dual language, social, legal and educational rights are given freely and now EXPECTED.
    All the while, American senior citizens, Veterans, blacks in big cities are underserved!
    Build the wall- and change the asylum laws!
    Welcome in those who seek to make America their home- legally!

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2019 10:07 a.m.

    @Thid Barker
    We're not giving 80 billion to Mexico. The US spent 42 billion in aid in 2017 to the entire globe. It's 1% of the budget (with your math it doesn't take many Mexicos to be the entire budget). The biggest recipient? Afghanistan at 4.7 billion. Israel in second at 3.1 billion. The amount to Mexico is around 320 million.

    What you might be mixing up with this... and it's still a very different number, is the 25 billion Mexicans living in the US send home to Mexico in remittances.

  • BCS , 00
    Jan. 11, 2019 8:25 a.m.

    Think about this. Thisis like three brand new cities such as Grand Junction Idaho Falls and St. George just popping up. I would think 300,000 a year IS a crisis. We are nitpicking little words. It is adding to the problem. It is with the spirit of what he is saying.

  • brobobeo Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 11, 2019 8:23 a.m.

    I agree with DN Subscriber - Cottonwood Heights, UT. Do not open the government completely with the Nancy and Chuck's promise to discuss the border crisis later! That's what Reagan did in 1986 -- he offered amnesty to the then illegal residents in exchange for illegal immigration policy changes from congress and never got it! Let's get this barrier installed once and for all. We pay for other countries to install barriers but neglect to do so on our southern border. That makes no sense. Believe the Border Patrol officers who are on the line every day. One such officer said that he had personally caught people from 44 different countries coming across our southern border -- they know our weaknesses and how easy it is to cross there! Barriers work! Get it done!

  • wgirl Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 11, 2019 8:11 a.m.

    Great article.

    Here are some additional facts reported on PRI, Jan. 4th citing Dept. of Homeland Security's data for FY2018:

    Trump says that 17,000 "criminals" were apprehended trying to get across the border. However, 63% of those 16,831 criminal aliens were encountered at legal ports of entry - a 1000 mile wall would be a waste.

    Only 6,259 individuals apprehended by Border Patrol were actually found to have criminal convictions. Those individuals get fast-tracked for deportation.

    47 percent of the 6,259 individuals were convicted for illegally entering or re-entering the United States - their only crime was trying to get into the US. 14 percent have DUIs. One in ten has a drug offense.

    Only 13 percent, or about 800 people, have records of violence or convictions for sexual or firearms offenses. That's less than 1 percent of the total 362,000 apprehended by the Border Patrol in that period.

    That is a ratio of 1:450. By contrast, one in 12 adult Americans has a felony conviction.

    Maybe Mexico should be putting up a wall to keep Americans out!

    Trump is stoking fear and hatred.

    For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power and love and of a sound mind.

  • Paul in MD Montgomery Village, MD
    Jan. 11, 2019 6:29 a.m.

    Arrests and overall attempts to cross the border illegally may be down, but arrests are still topping 300,000 annually. That's about .1% of our nation's population. How many does it take to become a crisis?

    Border patrol, ICE and homeland security have a lot of responsibilities. If we can do something to allow them to focus on something with a more direct impact on our security, like drug interdiction, or tracking down felons crossing our borders, that would be a good investment. They can't simply ignore border crossings, but if barriers were put up where homeland says they are needed, that could cut the number of illegal crossings and arrests way down, and free up border patrol resources to work on those other responsibilities. Presidents Clinton, Bush 43 and Obama thought enough of this solution to cause 650 miles of wall to be built on our southern border in their tenures. Why are we turning our noses up at this same solution now?

  • cityboy Farmington, UT
    Jan. 11, 2019 3:37 a.m.

    @ Utes Fan,

    “There are millions of unemployed Americans. Put them to work. If wages rise - good. Let the market work. I thought Dems supported rising wages for Americans????????”

    And you believe that native American citizens are flocking to jobs that require them to pick fruit, milk cows, clean toilets, and wash dishes in restaurants all for $7.25/hour?

    I have a bridge for sale that I’d like to speak with you about.

    @ Thid Barker,
    Re: your stake dinner wager that you are willing to bet that $87 billion of foreign aid is given Mexico every year —- medium-rare @ Maddox in Brigham City.

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:23 p.m.

    Facts are pesky little critters and shame on the DN for inserting truth and accuracy into this debate.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Jan. 10, 2019 7:30 p.m.

    @Watcher1

    “The president needs to bypass congress completely and get this done. “

    So, the Constitution means nothing?

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 6:41 p.m.

    There's no crises; the boat is sinking more slowly than claimed.

  • Watcher1 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 6:36 p.m.

    The president needs to bypass congress completely and get this done. He's asking for less than 10% of the foreign aid we give out, and less than we spend in one month in Afghanistan . . . for what? We have a Department of Defense, and that department finally has a healthy budget. And, its primary responsibility is to defend the United States of America . . . not Syria, not Germany, not any other country. We need to ensure that we can control the entrance of drugs, gangs, human trafficking, cartels, terrorists, and those who exact billions/year for education, medical, dental, housing, food, etc., subsidies from the taxpayers.

  • Kodiak2014 Cedar City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 6:34 p.m.

    1 coming across the border illegally is a crisis. Just because it is a crisis does not mean that it is necessarily a bigger crisis. The border agents say they need more wall to do their job properly. Give it to them and stop trying to second guess those who are responsible

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Jan. 10, 2019 5:49 p.m.

    @patriot

    "and the President have already stated the numbers and made the case."

    And the President said Mexico would pay for it. We're waiting.

    @Samson01 "

    "Obviously undetected illegal entry is going to be undocumented and unaccounted for."

    Obviously, if illegal entry is undocumented and unaccounted for how do we know we have a crisis?

    @DN Subscriber

    "Congress' failure to pass appropriations resulted in the shutdown"

    Congress passed a bipartisan short-term appropriations bill to avoid the shutdown; a bill the President said he would sign until Limbaugh, Coulter, and Hannity "triple-dog-dared" him not to.

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    Jan. 10, 2019 5:32 p.m.

    patriot - Cedar Hills, UT
    ---
    Both Secretary Nielsen, Our US Border and Customs Agents and the President have already stated the numbers and made the case.
    ---

    Did you actually read the article? The numbers stated in the article, in part, come from Homeland Security and the State Dept., and indicate there is no massive wave of terrorists nor drugs passing through the uninhabited regions of the US/Mexico Border.

    The most like group of people who are now apprehended in those areas, are groups consisting of approx. 50% women and children, and given the decline of Mexican nationals using that pathway, they are most likely Central Americans fleeing violence in their respective home countries.

    The numbers counter the President's claims about an emergency, and even counter a claim that a Wall is the best solution for further border security.

    There are walls/barrier methods in place now. With monitoring and enforcement methods have reduced the illegal transborder crossings to 20-25% of the 1.6M level set in 2000, 19 years ago.

    But even more telling is that due to economic improvements in Mexico, fewer Mexicans are moving north.

    That should be the direction of any fund allocations.

  • Palmetto Bug Columbia, SC
    Jan. 10, 2019 5:24 p.m.

    I laugh anytime I read a comment suggesting the Deseret News is a liberal media outlet. People who hold such beliefs are so far removed from reality I have a hard time understanding them.

    President Trump believes a wall will improve the border situation. I'm open to that opinion but he needs to provide evidence that 1) there is a crisis, and 2) that the wall will fix the problem.

    The evidence I've seen suggest there are problems with our border but the problems have actually been improving over the last ~10 years. To me, these problems aren't a crisis but need to be addressed.
    I have yet to see any evidence that suggests Trump's wall will make a meaningful improvement in the problems we're still facing. The vast majority of illegal immigrants and drugs come through the border through legal ports of entry, where walls already exist. I want to see real estimates about how much the wall could reduce illegal immigration, drug flow, etc. If a wall will make meaningful improvements, let's build it. But if it won't, we could use that $5.7b on more border agents, drones, etc that might get a better return on investment.

  • mom3 Payson, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 5:10 p.m.

    The educator, I do not appreciate being called a liar. This is not a made up story. This happened to me and does happen in Utah and in other states. I am sharing this story because people keep bringing up how awful it is to separate the families, and need to know it happens all the time in America. Why do you think it is okay to say someone is telling a false story when you have no idea about my life and experiances, you do not not even know me. Shame on you. Just because you have been an educator does not mean you know all that has happens to others with the education system. Thankfully I had parents that pulled me out immediately, because what they were doing to me was harming their daughter! I was told by my principal that he didn't care if I had to be in the sick room all day I still had to be there! Tell me was he concerned about my education or was I just a head count? He also told me there was a student in my class dying of cancer and that student was expected to be in their seat everyday! I lost all respect for that man and thought he was a horrible person to me after that. He was principle Rowely. Do not attack others when you do not know the facts about their life!
    T

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 5:02 p.m.

    @cityboy

    "What silliness to suggest Dems want more illegal immigrants in the US in order to create more Dems."
    ___
    Not silly at all. Dems KNOW their are millions of votes to gain. Admittedly, Repubs lust for votes also (in different ways).

    "26% of all agricultural workers, 13% of construction workers and who knows whatbpercentage of house/motel/hotel cleaners are non-citizens. What would happen if their employers were heavily fined or their businesses shut down? ... food and travel would sky-rocket and there would be a huge labor shortage."
    ___
    There are millions of unemployed Americans. Put them to work. If wages rise - good. Let the market work. I thought Dems supported rising wages for Americans????????

    "The only crisis that this country is experiencing right now is a leadership void at the very top."
    ___
    I didn't vote for Trump. But I give him credit when he is right. Pelosi, Ocasio-Cortez, Tlaib etc. are part of that leadership crisis.

    Also, regarding the crisis at the border - are you aware of Obama's border chief Mark Morgan's comments? I listen to those that have first-hand experience - and he does. His comments are the facts we should be paying attention to!

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Jan. 10, 2019 4:51 p.m.

    My sources say Mexico gets $87.66 billion in foreign aid every year. I wrote my congressman on this! I will wager a steak dinner I am right! Why? A measly $270 MILLION wouldn't pay for much aid for a country with 115 million people! That's only about $2.35/person/year! That's no "aid" it is worthless!

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    Jan. 10, 2019 4:42 p.m.

    Thid Barker - Victor, ID
    ---
    In 2018, the U.S. government gave Mexico $87,660,000 in foreign aid. Suppose President Trump issues an executive order to deduct $5.7 billion which means Mexico pays for the wall and Mexico still gets about $82 billion and LEGAL immigration continues! Everybody wins, except criminal aliens and liberal Democrats!
    ---

    Deducting an amount from a 'gift' does not mean Mexico paid anything, as the neither the gift nor the deduction came from the revenue the Mexican Government receives from its taxes or other income sources such as oil sales.

    Unless of course one believes that a car dealership 'pays' for the sale discount on a car. If the new owner then 'pays' for a wall to be built around their house with the discount amount, the dealer sure didn't pay for it.

  • Zzzptm Dallas, TX
    Jan. 10, 2019 4:29 p.m.

    Thank you for presenting some home truths about immigration. It's not a crisis, unless someone overreacts and panics. Trump could have had $25 Billion for the wall back in 2017 if he would have also signed off on DACA, as he promised to do. Instead, he reneged and saved the wall for a manufactured crisis at a later date. Republicans need to realize that people such as myself are no longer registered Republicans because of politicians like Trump who cannot be trusted to carry through with the deals necessary to keep government running.

    Government is the art of compromise and "the second best", as one quote goes. An all-or-nothing attitude does not lead to good government.

  • cityboy Farmington, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 4:13 p.m.

    @Thid Barker,
    “In 2018, the U.S. government gave Mexico $87,660,000 in foreign aid. Suppose President Trump issues an executive order to deduct $5.7 billion which means Mexico pays for the wall and Mexico still gets about $82 billion and LEGAL immigration continues! Everybody wins, except criminal aliens and liberal Democrats!”

    Clearly you have no concept of how the executive and legislative branches of government function. Trump does not have a debit card on the federal treasury to spend as he pleases. Regardless, your figures are way goofy. The US provided $290 million in foreign aid to Mexico in 2017. The down-payment Trump presently wants for his boondoggle of a wall is $5.7 BILLION. Can you see the problem with the math?

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 4:06 p.m.

    @Thid Barker - Victor, ID

    In 2018, the U.S. government gave Mexico $87,660,000 in foreign aid. Suppose President Trump issues an executive order to deduct $5.7 billion which means Mexico pays for the wall and Mexico still gets about $82 billion and LEGAL immigration continues! Everybody wins, except criminal aliens and liberal Democrats!
    = = = = =
    Actually the figure is $289,985,165.00 (that's M as in Million) - source USAID.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 3:56 p.m.

    There IS a crisis at the border -- today at least.

    trump is at the border.

    With his most recent lie: "All four living presidents told me they support the wall."

    And a quick check with all four living presidents confirmed that not one of them has ever even spoken with him about the wall -- much less told him that they support it.

    Yup. There IS a crisis at the border and its name is trump . . . .

    God Help America

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 3:50 p.m.

    PhiloBeddoe - , 00

    "Spains" (sic) fence with Africa: In 2014, 2,100 immigrants successfully crossed from Morocco into Spain, but the fence reduced this number substantially to approximately 100 in 2015. More importantly, however, the fence has greatly discouraged people from even attempting to illegally cross into Spain. In 2014, approximately 19,000 people attempted to cross into Spain. That number diminished to approximately 3,700 in 2015. It appears that the greatest role the fence has played is in convincing immigrants not to even attempt to enter Spain, which has greatly reduced illegal immigration rates.

    Sounds like Spains (sic) barrier works"
    = = = = = =
    NO! Now they are coming by boat!

  • Immifriend Sandy, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 3:49 p.m.

    Wonderful article. Who is this Gillian Friedman? Neat that a Deseret News staffer is tackling doing a fact-check on the president. We expect such fact-checking from the national media, but am a little surprised to see such a story generated here. It is neat to see the DesNews delving in. -- John Jackson (aka Immifriend)

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Jan. 10, 2019 3:42 p.m.

    In 2018, the U.S. government gave Mexico $87,660,000 in foreign aid. Suppose President Trump issues an executive order to deduct $5.7 billion which means Mexico pays for the wall and Mexico still gets about $82 billion and LEGAL immigration continues! Everybody wins, except criminal aliens and liberal Democrats!

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 3:44 p.m.

    worf - McAllen, TX

    "For thirty years I've taught school a half mile from the border. I've known many people from both sides.
    = = = =
    Worf,
    If that's case, why have your neighbors in McAllen that have land along the river hired lawyers to sue the government when they are served with "Eminent Domain" notices?People have already rejected government offers, the government isn't taking just a narrow strip they want 100 - 300 yards for double fences, clear observation strips and roads.

    They will destroy the National Butterfly sanctuary. The will knock down the La Lomita Chapel in Mission, TX ( a 160 year old historic landmark).

    Your neighbors have also indicated that the problem is nowhere near as big as you and Trump are making it to be. All he trying to do is occupy the news so that his myriad other legal problems are hidden from view. There are a couple of live interviews of these "neighbors" currently on the TV.

    There are Eight congressional districts (both Democrat and Republican) along the border in Calif., Ariz, N Mex, and Texas - all eight (including your representative) are against the wall or fence and all say that is unnecessary.

    All this to satisfy an enormous EGO.

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 3:20 p.m.

    DN Subscriber - Cottonwood Heights, UT

    "You can spin the data any way you like...............................
    Democrats have promised to secure the border in exchange for amnesty or other "compromises" since 1986 but have not done so. . . . . . . . ."
    = = = = = =
    in 2017 a bi-partisan bill was forwarded to Trump giving him everything he wanted including money for a wall in exchange for "The Dreamers Amnesty" (DACA) which Trump indicated he would sign, before he decided he wouldn't, and said he wanted more.

    This time the Democrats are not going to give him anything until he opens the government. They found out about him just like all of his contractors and tenants have, "don't trust him to do what he says he'll do".

  • Skidney Garden City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 2:24 p.m.

    We don't know what to believe.

    The only thing that sticks in my mind from my college statistics class is a warning from the professor. He said you have to be very careful with numbers; the same numbers can be skewed and spun to produce any result desired. I'm sure the conservatives and liberals alike manipulate statistics to support their position. Both sides use the numbers to tell whatever story they want to portray.

    A respected mentor of mine from years ago used to say, "there are three sides to every story: my side, your side, and the truth." I believe every person begins with a certain mindset, and whatever story they tell is biased by that initial mindset. It's inevitable. With all the media that's fed to us from so many different sources, we simply don't know what to believe. It brings to mind Pontius Pilate's cynical question in the Bible, "What is truth?"

    How can we ever know?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 2:22 p.m.

    Both Secretary Nielsen, Our US Border and Customs Agents and the President have already stated the numbers and made the case. The numbers (from our Border Agents) speak for themselves. Add to the mix the caravan that just finished and the horror of that mess for the people from Central America as well as Mexico and the fact that we had to deploy US army troupes to protect our border. Oh and word is another caravan is set for to happen in 2019. Most on the political left (Deseret News included) are happy with the status quo at the border because it is basically an open border which they want. Let's see if this post sees the light of day!!

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Jan. 10, 2019 2:06 p.m.

    Those who yearn for this silly wall can build one themselves. How about a good old fashioned Amish wall raising? Don't waste my money on that boondoggle.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 1:47 p.m.

    @ConservativeCommonTator
    "So, Karen, as long as illegals don't commit as many crimes as citizens, the increase in the number of crimes is OK with you? That is what you're saying! No illegals means no crimes by or against illegals!"

    Replace illegals with any other demographic and read that again...

    @Silo
    "When there is at least one US citizen murdered at the hands of illegal aliens in our country, there IS a border crisis. Build the wall!"

    So you support a total and complete ban on guns?

    @ Illuminated
    "Obama is on the record saying there was a "humanitarian crisis at the border". If it was a crisis way back then, it's an even bigger crisis now. Or do Democrats disavow Obama now?"

    When Obama spoke of a crisis he was referring to the number of unaccompanied minors crossing the border. It was a humanitarian crisis. We still have issues with there being a refugee/asylum seeker humanitarian crisis.

    This is a trumped up manufactured crisis ostensibly about security even though undocumented immigrants commit crimes at lower rates, just like when Trump sent troops to the border until the election was over, then apparently it's fine.

  • mom3 Payson, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 1:44 p.m.

    The truth is not being shared about the caravan. The caravan was organized by Amercans that want our borders opened. They are people that hate this country and want it to be destroyed. The people in the caravan were being bused to the border. They had food and water, mobile medical units ect. Millions of dollars have been spent to create this caravan. The demacrats purposly create a problem and then use it to fool the American people into believing it, because they know the American people for the most part are kind and caring and they use it against us all the time to get what they want. The reporter I listened to actually went there in person to find out the truth. He spoke with the migrants and he he asked why they are trying to get here they said for a job not that they were running from abuse in their country. People do not have a right to come here illegal for a job. Also he said that 90% of them are men and he witnessed them putting the women and children in front of them as human shields. There were many that were angry because they had been lied to about being able to come into our country easily. The people that keep organizing these caravans need to be arrested.

  • Gil Bates Mayfield, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 1:24 p.m.

    The problem here is that so many people have bought into the amnesty idea for most illegals. Media and politicians (both parties) are generally agreed that there is no problem with most illegal aliens living and working in the US.

    This is a problem. There are perhaps 22 million people unlawfully present in the USA. And there is no clear understanding as to which ones are good illegals and which ones are bad.

    The politicians can't seem to muster up an amnesty plan, so we've got this silent amnesty or de facto amnesty riding along for over a decade now.

    But out here in the kitchens of America, we DO have a problem with unlawful presence and we DO want the border more secure and we DO want to see more enforcement by way of ID theft prosecutions, worksite raids, E Verify, No Match letters, local cooperation and deportations.

    Elected officials are way out there on this one, and the wall is just a slice of the problem. We want our laws enforced, not co-opted by circuit court judges.

  • The Educator South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 1:18 p.m.

    @ mom

    "Children are taken from families everyday in America when their parents break the law. This is just another liberal talking point. Children are taken from their families in America just because they miss to many days in the government run schools. I know this for a fact. I attended school in Manti Utah and they tried taking me from my parents just because I missed to many days for health reasons."

    You're having problems with the truth again. This doesn't happen. In fact, Utah has some of the most lax attendance laws around because we are such a conservative state. If you have problems with our government, maybe you should start with our republican controlled legislature.

    But using your made up story as a reason to separate families at the border is nonsense. It doesn't help your case. Why not rush more lawyers and judges to the border to help process all of the new asylum seekers and immigrants?

    Get Educated

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    Jan. 10, 2019 12:54 p.m.

    This article wanted to disagree but couldn't fully disagree.

    On some level it's a crisis - and the media and dems praising the caravans on prime time bought this reaction from trump.

    There isn't a single logical solution better than a wall out there, and a lot of solutions to make the wall effective, but the democrat solutions don't seem to be effective without a wall.

  • The Educator South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 12:41 p.m.

    @ Illuminated

    "Obama is on the record saying there was a "humanitarian crisis at the border". If it was a crisis way back then, it's an even bigger crisis now. Or do Democrats disavow Obama now?"

    Completely different situation. Thousands of kids were left at the border. It was a humanitarian crisis. Donald's humanitarian crisis is completely self-inflicted. He created this. He's the one separating families and putting kids in cages. He's the one that isn't rushing lawyers and judges to the border to process the new people. He's the one that shut down the government.

    Sorry, you're not going to distract us from your boy's failing presidency by creating another crisis at the border. Your side has gotten real good at creating weekly chaos. That's not going to work here. Your boy is going to be held accountable.

    Facts matter!

    Get Educated

  • rmk South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 12:39 p.m.

    A woman with three kids that speak no English, have no money enter the U.S. . Where does she live? How does she get food? What happens when a child gets sick? Each child sitting in our schools in Utah cost us $7,500 a year and add to the over crowding. Chris Stewart was raising money for school supplies for 20,000 refugee kids. The state says there is between 30,000 and 50,000 kids in our school that have both parents that are illegals. If you take the low number you have 50,000 refugee kids and kids whose parents are illegals costing the state of Utah taxpayers a half of billion dollars a year just for education. Money that we can use to educate our own kids. They add to our over crowding and since they speak no English require the teacher to spend more time with them. I never see the news talking about cost. The misinformation just doesn't stop. Your report uses data from before sanctuary city's to now where the data isn't available. We see video of people storming the boarder on social media because the media wants to hide the truth. This article could easily been written right leaning rather than left.

  • Farmington Fan Farmington, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 12:36 p.m.

    The only "crisis" is that President Trump threw an adult temper tantrum about not getting his promised border wall (ironically, while he had a Republican controlled Congress for the past two years) and decided to hold Congress and the American people hostage by refusing to sign a budget bill unless $5.7 billion was included in the bill to build his promised wall (which, by the way, he promised would be paid for by Mexico, not by U.S. tax dollars)--which shut down the government.

    Then, in order to avoid the political fallout of his ill-advised actions, he had to try to manufacture a "crisis" to justify his actions, which has now resulted in government workers not getting paid, and government services not being performed. Now that the thinks he has convinced Americans that there is a "crisis," he has threatened to continue the government shutdown for months or even years, until he gets his way.

    I have always thought that a businessman with a "my way or the highway" attitude would make a poor president, because in order to get things done in the political arena there must be compromise to acknowledge differing interests. President Trump is proving that premise to be true, IMO.

  • mom3 Payson, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 12:18 p.m.

    1aggie I am tired of the comment about separating families. Children are taken from families everyday in America when their parents break the law. This is just another liberal talking point. Children are taken from their families in America just because they miss to many days in the government run schools. I know this for a fact. I attended school in Manti Utah and they tried taking me from my parents just because I missed to many days for health reasons. I came from a good family,but because I wasn't in my seat everyday they were going to separate me from my family.It is about the head count, they get money for every child that is in their seat. Please stop the misinformation. Illegals separate their own families all the time. They send their children alone all the time. American families are separated all the time. This is about protecting American families which should be our presidents first concern and is. These people are not coming here to be Americans. They do not care about who we are and our ideals and it will change this country into what they are running from. We always have welcomed legal immigrants, they want to be Americans because they understand why we are free!

  • NeilT Harrisville, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 12:02 p.m.

    Republicans are not being truthful on immigration. They use immigration as a wedge issue to motivate their base in order to conquer and divide the nation. Illegal immigration is an economic more than a criminal problem
    Lets set aside the emotion and partisanship and have an honest debate on immigration.

  • ConradGurch Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:56 a.m.

    @ silo - Sandy, UT

    One of the reasons for decline was the increase in boarder patrol officers.

  • illuminated Kansas City, MO
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:50 a.m.

    "We now have an actual humanitarian crisis on the border that underscores the need to drop the politics and fix our immigration system once and for all".

    -Barack Obama, 2014

    I agree Mr. Obama. Call up Chuck and Nancy and tell them to get it done!

  • illuminated Kansas City, MO
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:43 a.m.

    Obama is on the record saying there was a "humanitarian crisis at the border". If it was a crisis way back then, it's an even bigger crisis now. Or do Democrats disavow Obama now?

  • UTGary , 00
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:47 a.m.

    I lived in the border area through much of the 80's and 90's and have many friends still in the area...illegals that transited near my home and sometimes availed themselves of tools from my work truck opportunistically parked on the street. The stories I hear now are really no different than they were back then.

    Crisis? If it is now, it was then. If it isn't now, it wasn't then.

    Why no conversation surrounding what attracts these people in the first place? The availability of jobs here. My entire adult life I have watched half-hearted (at best) efforts to hold employers accountable for hiring undocumented (illegal) workers. Serious about getting the matter under control? Why not address it at the level of businesses that hire (with a wink) these people. Put an appropriately robust control system in place, put a few businesses out of existence and punish their owners, the message quickly gets out that there is a very specific "correct" way to hire and be hired. Limiting the workforce means higher prices for hotels, veggies etc. Things might be a bit painful but new equilibrium would eventually be reached. My 2 cents.

  • cityboy Farmington, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:46 a.m.

    @Utes Fan,

    “They know the vast majority of immigrants crossing the border will vote Left-leaning, which puts party above America.”

    What silliness to suggest Dems want more illegal immigrants in the US in order to create more Dems. The fact is that most illegal immigrants are not sneaking into this country, they are flying in and over-staying their visas. No wall, however high, will prevent that.

    If Repubs were serious about curtailing illegal immigration they’d go after those that are employing them. It is estimated that 26% of all agricultural workers, 13% of construction workers and who knows whatbpercentage of house/motel/hotel cleaners are non-citizens. What would happen if their employers were heavily fined or their businesses shut down? Trump’s base would revolt against him and prices for construction, food and travel would sky-rocket and there would be a huge labor shortage.

    Trump needs to put the government back to work and sit down with both houses of Congress to tackle immigration reform including border security.

    The only crisis that this country is experiencing right now is a leadership void at the very top.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:42 a.m.

    There is indeed a border crisis. Obama's former Border Patrol chief Mark Morgan said the following recently while questioned by Tucker Carlson:

    Question: "When you hear the term "Manufactured crisis" ... what is your response?"

    MARK MORGAN: "My response is those people that are saying that—Anybody that says that, Tucker, is misinformed and they're misleading the American people. "

    "Every day...we worked human trafficking cases, we worked drug cases, and we worked drug and gang cases, all impacting the southern border."

    "I was briefed every single day about the men and women who are risking their lives every day and they’re apprehending murderers, rapists, pedophiles, other violent offenders, and gang members," Morgan continued. "That is not manufactured, that is real, and that's a fact and it’s still happening today."

    "And I would say, one last point is, 127 Border Patrol agents have died," Morgan added. "They didn’t die playing Monopoly. They died defending, being the frontline defenders of our borders, trying to apprehend 17,000 people, the bad people, that Secretary Nielsen mentioned. I wondered if he asked their families if this was a manufactured crisis."

  • Lets check the facts Santa Fe, NM
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:41 a.m.

    The article showed there were about 400,000 illegal immigrants last year. I'd bet we spend at least $10,000 on each illegal immigrant. At $10,000 per person that's $4B. The wall pays for itself in one year. Not a bad return on investment.

  • Farmington Fan Farmington, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:37 a.m.

    Pres. Trump promotes the concept of "fake news." Now, those who want to justify a differing point of view on an issue (usually in the face of facts that don't support such point of view) simply label the opposing point of view as "fake news." Such phenomenon coincides with the practice of major news agencies, in presenting commentary, characterization or "spin" on the actual facts, as objective news. It's fascinating to juxtapose CNN and Fox News to see how each channel presents the same set of facts in a polar opposite manner. But, such practices create a dangerous political environment.

    About 80 years ago, in a country not that far away, there was an unpopular ethnic group accused of engaging in crimes, stealing jobs from the dominant ethnic group, and causing a societal financial crisis. The popular leader of that country implemented a "solution" that remedied the perceived problem & created economic prosperity--namely, eradicating the offenders and confiscating their property--while a supposedly rational, civilized society looked the other way.

    I'm hopeful the current "fake news" mentality won't spawn an even remotely similar solution for our alleged "border crisis."

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:36 a.m.

    @Silo wrote: "When there is at least one US citizen murdered at the hands of illegal aliens in our country, there IS a border crisis. Build the wall!"

    Your argument makes as much sense as saying that as long as one child is hungry, the taxpayers should provide turkey dinners every night for every child in America.

    Everybody agrees that we should protect the nation's borders. The issue is whether building a 2,000-mile-long wall (or fence or slats) will solve the problem or whether it's a foolish use of scarce resources that could be used for more effective solutions.

    Also, when Trump says he could build that wall "quickly," you know he's delusional. No project of that magnitude, which would involve thousands of complex property and environmental issues will be built quickly or for the price Trump is talking about. And Mexico won't pay one red cent for it. You and I will.

    Time to stop bandying about campaign slogans and get real about the problem.

  • Don H. ,
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:33 a.m.

    Data gathering can be done in a way that supports a point of view. Without knowing the sources and how it was gathered and without in-depth analysis it is meaningless. The immigration crisis is not new and congress has not addressed the problem for generations. At least Trump is trying. I know the value of legal immigration having worked in many manufacturing operations in our state. There were times when we could not handle the growth we faced relying on our native Utah work force alone. Our system is broken in many ways, I also had a coworker who was a veteran of the US Navy. He married a woman from the Philippines, in the almost 10 years that I worked with him he was not able to get his wife into the US. He would save all his vacation and could only be with her then. This is a travesty for someone who served our nation. We have a desire to help others who are needy, but illegal immigration is not the way to do it. The crime, drugs, and human trafficking have got to stop. Even one life lost by illegal immigration is too much. The brave men and women who are trying to keep us safe at the border need the things they are asking for. Support legal immigration.

  • zipadeedoodah Lehi, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:27 a.m.

    Irresponsible article taken out of context and fails to address the billions every year from uncontrolled illegals crossing into the US; also the failed immigration system which, in itself, is a crisis... and has long been so.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:14 a.m.

    Hold the phone.

    Crisis? Absolutely.

    We think there are 11 million illegals. There are 22 million.

    They are here working. That means ID fraud on the face of it. (Or, simple tax evasion in an underground economy.)

    They will get older and get disabled and be unable to care for themselves. What then? We are not going to simply watch them die.

    Most politicians (both parties) think that most of them are law abiding and should be granted amnesty.

    Crisis? If you don't see a crisis in immigration, you aren't looking.

  • ErinKengaard Falls Church, VA
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:15 a.m.

    The high price of housing is a major factor in poorer quality of life for the middle class and the poor. Population density is the main driver of the price of land, and thus the price of housing. High immigration is the main driver of population density.
    See, for example, Immigration and the revival of American Cities by Jacob L. Vigdor for the Americas Society/Council of the Americas and the Partnership for a New American Economy, in which he claims that more than 40 million immigrants currently in the united states have increased housing prices nationwide by $3.7 trillion. Or, get the population and housing price data for 1900 to 2010 from the Bureau of the Census and do your own analysis.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:12 a.m.

    Difficult to see how gettin permits and the years required to build a thirty foot Medieval wall is a huge emergency. Political power moves only will reap future election results.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Jan. 10, 2019 11:10 a.m.

    Lots of collusion with Russia, no crisis at the border with Mexico, terrible mistreatment of government workers, decaying American democracy and failed Washington politics, incompetent self serving party politicians, greed over patriotism: and that is the news of the day. Check back tomorrow for much of the same. Stay healthy, happy and be nice to your neighbor.

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:53 a.m.

    Oilerfan,

    Like many other cities, crime rates have been dropping in McAllen over the past 10+ yrs. McAllen does not appear on the list of cities with highest number of car thefts. (In fact, TX cities appear on the low end among the highest rates of car theft in the U.S.)

  • search diligently Lehi, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:52 a.m.

    Very distorted article and taken out of context. The truth is that there has long been a crisis... not just now. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and both Bush presidents declared there was. Get the story right.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:47 a.m.

    @Impartial7 - DRAPER, UT
    "It's just that some right wingers don't like that the truth reflects poorly on their party. Kudos, D-News."
    ___________

    Plenty of comments have pointed out flaws in the so-called "facts", and logical fallacies in this article. "Truth" is hardly the correct word for this article. "Opinion" is more appropriate.

    As far as party is concerned? Please. Don't make it appear as if the Left is not protecting their turf. They know the vast majority of immigrants crossing the border will vote Left-leaning, which puts party above America.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:39 a.m.

    "It is now a crisis because Trump is attempting to actually enforce immigration law. During the Obama administration, they processed illegals and let them into the country and gave them a court date to re-appear before a judge like 3 months later. Of course, most illegals don't. That is the crisis."

    In general I agree. The crisis is the asylum process, and a wall does nothing for that.

    Actually Obama was just following the law and the wait can be as long as 6 months....so change the law and fund resources for the asylum process. That's what Democrats have been crying for.

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:28 a.m.

    2nd try

    The fact is , we need immigrants. They contribute in a variety of ways to the strength and future of this country. What we are doing now is diverting scarce resources from focusing and catching the criminal element to terrorizing families fleeing violence and govt corruption/chaos in other countries. We are terrorizing people who already are contributing in positive ways to this country. The separation of children from their parents is immoral and causes permanent damage to these young, innocent lives. Shame on us.

    We need smart solutions. Republicans and Democrats could find areas of agreement. It is not a $6 billion border wall.

  • Daedalus, Stephen ARVADA, CO
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:32 a.m.

    This morning, Trump was asked when the 'crisis' began and he pointed back to Obama's presidency.

    When a reporter raised the obvious follow-up -- that Trump has been the president for the past 2 years -- Trump fell apart.

    Trump certainly did not address what lots of Americans have been reasonably asking and expecting to be answered.

    He said "Look, look, you can all play cute" and then accused the press being "80%
    " in coordination" with the "opposition party". There was not a single syllable of substance offered to answer this question.

    Even his anti-media, Trump-as-victim non-answer did not make sense compared to the typical agit-prop Trump uses to get his base in a lather.

    Trump fans/followers can keep telling themselves that these are the words and actions of a "strong leader". That is between you and Trump to work out.

    But for the rest of America, this is the rhetorical equivalent of an overwhelmed unprepared man curled up sobbing the floor of his closet, not wanting to face the day and the consequences of his poor life choices.

    Crisis?

    Sounds like someone told Trump "no" for the first time in his life. I can see how that would rock this poor guy's world.

  • 1conservative Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:31 a.m.

    This article is a good reminder of all of us who support building the wall to be very careful which/who's "facts" you listen to.

    This article is obviously one trying to tell us "oh, nothing to see here", no problems at all on our southern border.

    This is not the first one, nor is it very clever, at least not to those who understand the problem.

    The article omits many details, so one can see the obvious bias.

    Be careful with the network news also, its' not so much what they say, but rather what they "omit", that actually amounts to very biased reporting!

    I suspect most democrats also realize its' biased, but it fits their narrative, so it works out just fine!

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:06 a.m.

    Facts don’t matter to those who support Trump. They get their own set of “facts” fed to them.

    The fact is , we need immigrants. They contribute in a variety of ways to the strength and future of this country. What we are doing now is diverting scarce resources from focusing and catching the criminal element to terrorizing families fleeing violence and govt corruption/chaos in other countries. We are terrorizing people who already are contributing in positive ways to this country. The separation of children from their parents is immoral and causes permanent damage to these young, innocent lives. Shame on us.

  • oilerfan KaTy, TX
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:02 a.m.

    Some may say illegals are less likely to commit a crime. They are breaking the law because they are here. Many things are unreported or never caught.

    Go to McAllen, Weslaco, Brownsville and leave a car unlocked or your kids bike out in front yard and see if it doesn't find it's way to Mexico. They may not even take the car but bust your windows just to steal the change in your cup holder. If you have a ranch they will cut your fences unless you build a ladder form them. they will break in your cabin and take goods or eat your livestock.

    They steal from the tax and insurance payer because they get food, medical care and an education and without contributing. Nor is there any intent to ever contribute.

    Build a home and watch them sneak off with materials you paid for to build themselves a home - not reported

    Car accidents - Illegal's will beg you not to call the police and pay you cash so they don't get deported - not reported

    Steal your identity - I have had power set up on several homes I have never seen. My son went into Cosco to open an account to find he already had one and owed $3000 -- not reported.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 10:02 a.m.

    That's what I expect from a liberal paper like the Trib. Oh, wait...This is the very conservative, pro-GOP, Deseret News. See, the truth still matters to some right leaning publications. Now, a lot of readers will blame the D-News for succumbing to the left. Hardly. The truth is the truth, neither right or left. It's just that some right wingers don't like that the truth reflects poorly on their party. Kudos, D-News.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:53 a.m.

    Numerous DN readers have urged others to build trumps wall as it relates to this piece regarding the immigration issue.

    Build trumps wall?

    During the campaign as well as the last two years trump has promised that Mexico would pay for his wall.

    When President Obama promised something Republicans lost their minds excoriating President Obama 24/7/365.

    With trump's campaign slogan failing miserably and subsequently he attempts to shake down Americans for the cost of his wall...no problem.

    Hold trump accountable for his failed campaign slogan.

    He has been bailed out of every one of his failures his entire life.

  • Mind Baggage Bentonville, AR
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:40 a.m.

    Here's the bottom line:

    It is now a crisis because Trump is attempting to actually enforce immigration law. During the Obama administration, they processed illegals and let them into the country and gave them a court date to re-appear before a judge like 3 months later. Of course, most illegals don't. That is the crisis.

    Trump is attempting to hold them at the border because the current system isn't working. If America is fine with Obama's approach, then there is no crisis. Open borders don't appear to be a crisis at the border. So all of the numbers that the media are using make it appear that this crisis is "manufactured." It is only manufactured because of Trump's attempts at following the rule of law.

    Congress is too chicken to actually reform immigration. So this is what we are left with.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:38 a.m.

    The facts indicate that this is a manufactured crisis, created for political purposes. The real crisis is the number of refugees seeking asylum, but the solution to that problem is not a wall. These people present themselves to officials and seek legal entry into the country. Trump has is back against a wall, and there's really no way out for him without losing face. But maybe that's what he needs.

    The statistics also indicate that, on average, illegal aliens are more law-abiding than your average American citizen. If Trump really wants a safer country, he should welcome more illegal aliens and actually make them legal. But what he wants and needs is enemies, easy targets to deflect attention from his legal and investigatory woes.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:35 a.m.

    "When there is at least one US citizen murdered at the hands of illegal aliens in our country, there IS a border crisis. Build the wall!"

    But the thousands murdered by American citizens....we're good with that, right?

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:32 a.m.

    Unreason and anti-intellectualism abominate thought. Thinking implies disagreement; and disagreement implies nonconformity; and nonconformity implies heresy; and heresy implies disloyalty — so, obviously, thinking must be stopped. But shouting is not a substitute for thinking and reason is not the subversion but the salvation of freedom.
    - Adlai Stevenson

  • illuminated Kansas City, MO
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:29 a.m.

    "It's not a crisis, the water is only warming slightly", said the frog.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:22 a.m.

    Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen praised President Trump and criticized Democrats who claim the crisis at the border is “manufactured.” Many people are blind to reality and only see what they want to see. That's especially true with this crisis on both sides of our southern border! Democrats see no crisis because they don't want to see it! To the rest of us, its a glaring, horrible humanitarian nightmare and all the facts bear that out! Its always easier to pretend there is no crisis because if you do see it, you must acknowledge YOU are most responsible for creating it and are morally obligated to correct it! President Trump and most Americans, especially people who live near the border actually do see it and therefore feel a morally obligation to correct it. We who are honest with ourselves, need to support our President! Ignoring the crisis is immoral and un-American!

  • From Ted's Head Orem, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:15 a.m.

    Hogwash and balderdash! This left-leaning (who else would retweet the ACLU?) reporter has reverse-engineered an article using "facts" that support her biased point of view. The elephant in the room is the cost of illegal immigration, both economically and societally. The "fact" that we still supposedly ONLY have 10 MILLION illegal aliens in our midst is a good thing? And who is counting those folks? The same people who are counting heads and drug shipments that slip into our country under the cover of night or in remote locations?

    This is mislabeled as an "In-depth" article and more accurately belongs in the Opinion section.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 9:14 a.m.

    The Trump administration admitted that almost all of the 4,000 suspected terrorists that entered our country came thru airports. Maybe we should be building a roof instead of a wall?

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:59 a.m.

    You can't get threw to people who have their heads buried in the sand. Facts and reality don't win elections, fear and hope are much better propaganda tools.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:54 a.m.

    They may never have been a better article and thread in the DN that highlights how fact free the right has become.

    Despite whether there are 11 million or 22 million illegals in the country, if boarder apprehensions and economic conditions keep this number steady at worst and declining in all probability how do you contort a "border crisis". You may have a domestic enforcement problem but not a border crisis.

    Claiming that the very presence of illegals is a crisis is willful blindness to the major contribution they make to our economy. I'm not condoning their illegal status, I would much prefer they come here under some form of guest worker program that is adequately screened and monitored..but none the less, their presence adds to our wealth.

    The fact that statistically a very few bad actors get in is again a process and enforcement issue not a "wall" issue.

    Basically none of our illegal immigration issues (and we do have issues) are solved with 500 miles of new massive fencing.

  • PhiloBeddoe , 00
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:53 a.m.

    Spains fence with Africa: In 2014, 2,100 immigrants successfully crossed from Morocco into Spain, but the fence reduced this number substantially to approximately 100 in 2015. More importantly, however, the fence has greatly discouraged people from even attempting to illegally cross into Spain. In 2014, approximately 19,000 people attempted to cross into Spain. That number diminished to approximately 3,700 in 2015. It appears that the greatest role the fence has played is in convincing immigrants not to even attempt to enter Spain, which has greatly reduced illegal immigration rates.

    Sounds like Spains barrier works.

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:43 a.m.

    Obama’s own border security chief Mark Morgan, who was fired by Trump has said that there is a crisis on the border. He said and Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents regularly apprehend "murderers, rapists, pedophiles, other violent offenders, and gang members.".

    Former Obama Chief Morgan also said, one last point is, 127 Border Patrol agents have died," Morgan added. "They didn’t die playing Monopoly. They died defending, being the frontline defenders of our borders, trying to apprehend 17,000 people, the bad people, that Secretary Nielsen mentioned. I wondered if fact checkers asked their families if this was a manufactured crisis."67 border agents have lost there lives on the border. They didn’t die playing Monopoly. They died defending, being the frontline defenders of our borders, trying to apprehend 17,000 people, the bad people, that Secretary Nielsen mentioned. I wondered if he asked their families if this was a manufactured crisis."

    I would say that is a CRISIS, fact checkers, as do 70% of Americans recently polled.....time to wake up and face those facts!"

  • 501CM Sandy, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:42 a.m.

    Can those blindly supporting the wall read this and allow logic to do some thinking? If the Dems were shouting to build a wall, would you really just tow the line like you are because it is Trump?

  • Robroy Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:36 a.m.

    I have a nephew who has been a border guard and supervisor for 14 years in the Yuma zone. He has had assignments in DC as well. According to him and hundreds of his collegues, walls and fences are absolutely critical. So called facts and figures can be spun anyway the press and the Dnews wants to spin them. For example arrests appear to be down because of catch and release among other things. Politics dictate who can be arrested vs. who can be detained but not actually arrested. Drug and human smugglers are caught every day no where near ports of entry. A few years ago Obama degreed an overall pay decrease for the Border patrol trying to incent agents to leave the service. Thousands of illegals cross the border every month and no one knows who they are. My nephew and a majority of his co-workers are minorities and obviously have no racial animous. They do not have the resources to do theirs jobs.

  • katy Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:37 a.m.

    I never see an article written about the cost of illegals coming into our country. The living cost for lodging, food, especially medical expenses, etc. far outweigh the cost of the wall. They simply need to come in legally and is the only way they can live the American Dream. Legally they can't work without a green card - employers take advantage of them if they do work under the table and they have no recourse.

    This isn't the first time walls have been built on our southern border. Several presidents have built them. The biggest reason we can't come to some kind of compromise is "politics". Our President wants to fulfill is campaign promise - the democrats don't want him given credit for building the wall so the fight goes on. Why don't our congress people go to the border and actually talk to the border patrol and see what they think. They certainly know what is going on more than someone who sits at a desk.

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:29 a.m.

    I love how facts make no difference to todays extreme conservative posters. Much like our pretesident they dont like the facts so they blame 'the media' and 'liberals'.
    Simply put, it you dont report what they want to hear, regardless of the facts, they will stomp their feet and pout while making up their own facts.

    Trump knows that he can use fear as a weapon. And the frightened line up to cheer.

  • Originalflyinhawaiian Yakima, WA
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:26 a.m.

    @Palmetto Bug - Columbia, SC
    "You’re welcomed to your own opinion but not your own facts." Agreed so let's see where this takes us, shall we?

    "I have yet to see any facts that convince me we have a border crisis or that our immigration system is getting worse..." So by your own definition, you've not seen all of the facts!

    "We have a lot of illegal immigrants but they won’t be stopped by a wall," Please site your facts!

    "The border and immigration issues we do have will not be benefited by a wall." Again, please site your facts.

    "I’d rather see we use the resources Pres Trump wants for the wall on more effective solutions." Well now, maybe we're getting somewhere. Would you please site those solutuons for us with the accompanying facts on why they are more beneficial?

    "...so you’re safer today than almost any other time in US history and would be safer in a room of average illegal immigrants than a room of average Americans)." I'm wondering if you'd be willing to make that statement personally to all of the family members of those killed by illegal aliens? Hmm, interesting question!

    So I agree with you. You're welcome to your opinion but not your own facts.

  • Tumbleweed Centerville, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:19 a.m.

    If walls are not helpful, please have every rich Democrat tear down the security walls around their homes and neighborhood. $5Billion is nothing to the federal budget. Pelosi and Schumer both voted for border barriers in the past. Now they are putting their pride before the safety of the American people. Humble yourselves Democrats and build the wall.

  • Samson01 S. Jordan, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:14 a.m.

    So...If I get the gist of this "Fact Checking" Article...

    3 times the monetary value of drugs were apprehended at the border crossings than at illegal points of entry. On the face of it, this sounds conclusive. Any millisecond of thought about the statistic would support the idea of a physical barrier. Obviously undetected illegal entry is going to be undocumented and unaccounted for. Sound like a crisis to me.

    The next thing that stood out to me is the claim that we have fewer people crossing our borders not more. Do we have counters stationed at ALL the points of illegal entry to measure these numbers? If we have 22 million "undocumented" immigrants, isn't that a crisis?

    As for the terrorist presence, do we have a checkbox at the points of entry for a terrorist to self identify? How long were the 911 Saudi terrorists here in the US before 9-11? Did they self identify when they arrived?

    This article is for the bumper sticker crowd to point at to confirm their own bias.

  • neece Hyde Park, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:12 a.m.

    l understand these people trying to cross the border are trying to support their families and make a better life for themselves. I have no problem with that as long as they come here legally, pay taxes just as we do, Have to have insurance like we do. (FACT): more county run (not private) hospitals have closed primarily because the ER's in the past became clinics for them, (thus the insta cares type facilities were developed. ) they never would pay their bill and a lot of those hospitals closed. We have children in our country that go to school hungry and Yet we give illegal people access to our schools, housing etc. That is just one problem...

    The second and worst problem is all the illegal drugs that are coming into the US. They will do ANYTHING to get those drugs into the country. build tunnels (that collapse and kill people) Our border patrol are in super dangerous positions being shot at to make sure those drugs get here.. We could go on about the cartels... but I think we all know.

    Other countries have Border controls in place... I want to know why is it so awful if we want to do the same???

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:06 a.m.

    Karen R. - Houston, TX
    "The DN article could also have included the fact that illegal immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes than Americans and as a group are underrepresented in the criminal system."

    So, Karen, as long as illegals don't commit as many crimes as citizens, the increase in the number of crimes is OK with you? That is what you're saying! No illegals means no crimes by or against illegals!

    silo - Sandy, UT

    @slars
    "there has never been an illegal influx of people as large as this"

    Completely false.

    "The numbers you cite are the numbers of illegals ALREADY in the country. Yes, Pew says it's 11 Million, Census Bureau a bit higher, MIT claims 22 million. The one thing those sources do not differ on at all is the fact that the number in the US has not grown in over a decade."

    So, the 11-22 million illegals already here is NOT an invasion? Just how many are needed before you believe the number of illegals constitutes and invasion?

    Just for comparison, do you know how many U.S. Troops were involved in the invasion of Europe during WWII, or the number of Troops Russia lost during the German invasion of Russia?

    Tell me if that was an "invasion."

  • FTF Park City, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 8:00 a.m.

    Would somebody please emial this to Utah's GOP congressional delegation? They seem to be living in a different world.

  • 3grandslams Eagle Mountain, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 7:12 a.m.

    I can’t believe this article was written with a straight face. The numbers cited by themselves indicate a border crisis, a massive one.

    By building a wall, the asylum problem becomes easier to fix. By securing our borders, we can the with confidence help those who are truly needy. Currently, criminals, foreign nationalist, gang members and human traffickers are sneaking in behind asylum seekers.

    A million pounds seized at entries hasn’t eliminated the drug flow into the country. It’s still coming by three times as much than what’s seized. Where? Where there is no border security.

    Build a wall.

  • tsobserver Mapleton, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 6:47 a.m.

    Relying on Politico and the Washington Post for factual analysis is probably not the most credible way to open this story. Assuming that the known reports of illegal activity across the border misses an important part of the story which is that the vast gaps in the border that are not well patrolled or monitored due to lack of resources presents a very big unknown factor. We really have no reliable way to know just how much we are missing. And in terms of what we do interdict at the border, do we have any idea what our detection success rate is? Or are we just assuming in this article that with a relatively static enforcement effort, our detection rates would change dramatically if the levels and sophistication of criminal activities changed? It seems to me that this article repeats what many others in the press have been reporting without really doing any deeper analysis or giving thoughtful consideration to what it is that we clearly do not know.

  • Palmetto Bug Columbia, SC
    Jan. 10, 2019 6:42 a.m.

    You’re welcomed to your own opinion but not your own facts. I have yet to see any facts that convince me we have a border crisis or that our immigration system is getting worse (most data I’ve seen suggest we’re actually making progress). We have a lot of illegal immigrants but they won’t be stopped by a wall.
    The border and immigration issues we do have will not be benefited by a wall. I’d rather see we use the resources Pres Trump wants for the wall on more effective solutions.

    There have been some cases of illegal immigrants committing murder but illegal immigrants are far less likely to commit violent crime than US citizens (and violent crime rates are also near historic lows, so you’re safer today than almost any other time in US history and would be safer in a room of average illegal immigrants than a room of average Americans).

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Jan. 10, 2019 4:33 a.m.

    The DN article could also have included the fact that illegal immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes than Americans and as a group are underrepresented in the criminal system.

    But this debate has never been about facts for those drawn to Trump's siren song. This is about emotion and the human instinct to dislike/distrust "the other." It's about what can happen when the cynical or opportunistic realize that great power and fortune can come from exploiting this aspect of human nature.

    If there is a crisis, it's the assault on objective truth. I'm grateful for this effort by the DN to fight on its behalf.

  • Sion Knoxville, TN
    Jan. 10, 2019 3:14 a.m.

    When there is at least one US citizen murdered at the hands of illegal aliens in our country, there IS a border crisis. Build the wall!

  • Habisha South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 1:11 a.m.

    So the author of this story is now the authority on the definition of crisis? I don't understand anyone defending a position that fails to protect legal US citizens and those who make the treacherous journey because they can get through the border.

    I know because I've know undocumented people, worked with them, and been there friend. I've seen some of the very real problems the President talks about first hand.

    This is a political football for both parties, but there is truth in the President's concern and logic.

    This article seems nothing more than a political statement aligned with a particular political party with its own fact interpretation and scale problems that DN appears to support in its soft opposition to the President of the United States.

    There are very real problems at the border which every graph and piece of data supports. In this case comparative data isn't valid in the argument of whether or not there is a problem or crisis...there is and it needs to be fixed!

  • RRB SLC, UT
    Jan. 10, 2019 12:00 a.m.

    I went to their site, and checked for myself.
    Southern border apprehensions
    2018--521,090
    2017--415,517
    2016--553,378
    2015--444,850
    2014--568,237
    Source: U.S. customs and border protection. CPB southwest border apprehensions and inadmissible

    .

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 11:27 p.m.

    @slars
    "there has never been an illegal influx of people as large as this"

    Completely false.

    The numbers you cite are the numbers of illegals ALREADY in the country. Yes, Pew says it's 11 Million, Census Bureau a bit higher, MIT claims 22 million. The one thing those sources do not differ on at all is the fact that the number in the US has not grown in over a decade.

    The very definition of an 'influx' is "an arrival or entry of large numbers of people or things". That is absolutely not happening today. It mathematically cannot be happening, otherwise the count of illegals in country would grow year over year.

    Look at any source on the count of illegals in the country by year. Every single one shows aggressive growth until 2007, then a drop in 2008, then a steady trend for the next 10+ years. Every single source, including Pew, Census Bureau, MIT, Immigration Custom Enforcement and Border Patrol.

    Even the rate of border arrivals refutes your claim. Just a decade ago, the numbers at the border were over a million per year. We're currently sitting at around 300,000 per year. Those numbers are directly from DHS data.

    There is no crisis. The data confirms it.

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 11:19 p.m.

    We finally have a President that will fight illegal aliens coming to our country and now we find even the Deseret News has joined the media with their own spin on illegal border crossings. Our motto should be no one here illegally, they all come the right way.
    When I have left the country I have followed the rules all the way of the other countries, ours should be no different.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 10:21 p.m.

    Intelligent people have known all this for a long time. But then, intelligent people do their own fact checking.

  • Susan Quinton Draper, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 10:17 p.m.

    Worf, thank you for your perspective on the ground. Just found this interesting stat- in 2008 on the southern border there were fewer than 5,000 claiming asylum. In 2018 there were 97,000 claiming asylum, a 2000% increase in 10 years.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 10:11 p.m.

    PEW says that there are 11 million people here illegally, Yale/MIT says 22 million. No matter who you believe, there has never been an illegal influx of people into a country as large as this.

    A crisis? Yes it is. We can't have legal and illegal immigration, one has to go.

  • Fabled Soul Provo, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 9:24 p.m.

    This liberal propaganda masqurading as a “fact check” is the reason media is universally detested.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 9:17 p.m.

    @worf
    "But there are those who'll believe Nancy Pelosi and Chuck"

    It has nothing to do with believing 'Nancy Pelosi and Chuck'.

    It has everything to do with the data not supporting the need for the wall. The article clearly shows there's not a single data point indicating a sudden crisis on the southern border over the past year, two years, nor 10 years that would justify a wall.

    The only data point that even hints at a crisis the the case backlog growth, and a wall will do nothing to reduce that 'crisis'. In fact, it would actually divert funds away from a solution that requires hiring of more lawyers, judges and staff to process those cases.

    Even data the President did reference last night in his speech showed nothing with regard to a wall helping. He was no different than some MLM company claiming you should take their product for health because hundreds of thousands of people die from prescription drug reactions. Nevermind there's not provided evidence that their supplement is safe nor whether it cures anything. The point is deception to get you to buy a product, or support funding a wall.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 8:34 p.m.

    Thanks for this helpful article. I'd like to see similar fact-checking for other issues, too.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Jan. 9, 2019 7:34 p.m.

    For thirty years I've taught school a half mile from the border. I've known many people from both sides.

    I'll just say. Trump is not lying about this.

    But there are those who'll believe Nancy Pelosi and Chuck no matter what.

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 9, 2019 7:28 p.m.

    You can spin the data any way you like.

    When you had 396,579 illegal immigrant caugth crossing the border, that is a crisis by itself. Admitting that the total number of illegal aliens who evaded arrest was probably at least 2-3 times the number arrested that is enough to make it a crisis on any rational standard.

    When you have at least 11 million (and quite probably a whole lot larger number) of illegal aliens living in the U.S. that is certainly a crisis.

    When you have illegal aliens committing a lot of crimes, including murder, rape, drug distribution, etc, that is certainly a crisis.

    Utahns have been killed by illegal aliens (example Deputy Josie Fox) so if securing our border would save the life of even one of our police officers, failing to secure the border is a crisis.

    Democrats have promised to secure the border in exchange for amnesty or other "compromises" since 1986 but have not done so.

    Congress' failure to pass appropriations resulted in the shutdown, so keep it shut down until the border is secure. However long that takes. No compromises, no "fix it later" deals.