Utah Rep. John Curtis says Congress should accept responsibility for shutdown

He says inaction on spending bills led to problem

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  • Mad Hatter Santa Fe, NM
    Dec. 30, 2018 4:02 p.m.

    Chessermesser - West Valley City, UT
    Dec. 30, 2018 5:50 a.m.

    "For those who have stated walls don€™t work, that is not true. "

    You've changed the dynamic. You reference borders with walls, guard towers, mine fields, and machine guns. So I have to concede that in those cases, the walls work. They slow down anyone wanting to cross so that they can get shot. That works.

    Passive walls don't work. But if a border guard can kill someone attempting to cross, it makes it much more difficult for that person to successfully cross. So if you want the United States to be more like East Germany or North Korea, you make your point. But it is not the wall that is keeping people from crossing the border, it's the threat of being killed. It works really well when you put it that way.

    But what do we do with our northern border since more people cross that line than across our southern border? Do we do the same, or is there a difference other than the hue of the individual crossing the border?

  • Chessermesser West Valley City, UT
    Dec. 30, 2018 5:50 a.m.

    For those who have stated walls don’t work, that is not true. Only a very, very small number of East Germans were able to cross into West German because of the DDR’s “walled” border. I saw both the Berlin Wall and the larger Wall between East and West and there were impressive and effective.

    The heavily armed “Wall” between North and South Koreas works fine, also.

    The Great Wall in China served the purpose for which it was built.

    It sounds like the perfect solution for the Left is - open the border completely, let everybody in; and for the Right - control who and what enters. As several have recently said via the online media, why do rich people live in guarded communities, with walls? Why don’t they let anybody who wants to come into their house, do so? The reasons are obvious why they act contrary to those two questions. I think the same obvious reasons apply to controlling our own borders.

  • Mackenzie Iwamoto Bronx, NY
    Dec. 29, 2018 3:38 p.m.

    patriot - Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:42 p.m.

    "Border agents all side with the president to build the wall and say without a wall they can never secure our border. "

    It would make your argument useful if you could cite where you are getting your information when you state that "border agents all side" with Donald Trump and his appeal for a wall. I could also say the opposite with the same confidence that border agents think a wall is absolutely useless and we need modern technology and more border agents. This is even before saying that helping these countries where people are leaving to come to the U.S. would vastly improve their situation where they would not need to come.

    If we remove Trump from the equation completely, people might begin to have some perspective on the issue and the usefulness (or lack of) for a wall as a part of our immigration policy. Considering that most "illegal immigrants" come through visa over-stays, the only reason to emphasize the southern border is that these people are brown and not the white immigrants certain people in government approve. In fact, more people come across our northern border than our southern border. What's that tell you?

  • Joe Leaphorn Scottsdale, AZ
    Dec. 29, 2018 2:52 p.m.

    Chessermesser - West Valley City, UT
    Dec. 29, 2018 7:50 a.m.

    "Can anybody out there give ONE good reason NOT to build the Wall? "

    Read Jim Chee's post. That sums it up. It won't work and no one on the Right has demonstrated or explained how it would work, much less refuted the argument that it won't work. If you don't want to accept that fact, like a tsunami hurtling toward the beach you are playing on, then nothing will do to convince you. Standing in concrete is a weak basis for taking a position and convincing others that you are right.

    It would be far better to allocate money to repair the damage caused by the fires and hurricanes and flooding that have devastate many part of our country these last few years. We could use it to battle the opioid epidemic. Certainly we can use it to help those people on low laying Pacific Islands who are losing their islands and homes to the sea as the water rises.

    There is so much good that could be done with the money Donald Trump wants for his useless monstrosity that is the basis of his fear-mongering talk. Like saying "ISIS is defeated", maybe Trump can say, "The wall is finished and looks beautiful."

  • byronbca Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 29, 2018 1:50 p.m.

    Curtis is entitled to his own opinion, but just don’t confuse opinion with facts.

    The fact is, Trump made it crystal clear on live TV that he was taking responsibility for the the shut down. Check the tapes.

    If you believe in reality, then you must also know that this is on Trump. Again, watch the tape.

  • Misty Mountain Kent, WA
    Dec. 29, 2018 9:58 a.m.

    @patriot wrote,

    "Border agents all side with the president to build the wall and say without a wall they can never secure our border. Did you know that?"

    No, I didn't. If you got this information about what "all border agents" are saying from a legitimate news source, please give it to us.

    @Chessermesser wrote,

    "Can anybody out there give ONE good reason NOT to build the Wall? We will save gobs of money. "

    We spend money when it makes sense to spend it. If you want this wall, YOU need to come up with a reason *for* it, and real proof that it is cost effective.

    " We have a drug import problem"

    We don't have a drug import problem. We have a drug use problem. And those drugs are going to flow into the US as long as Americans keep buying them. When cocaine was the most commonly used drug, the great majority of it came in through Florida via small boats from the mother ships which stayed farther out at sea.

    "a burden on our education system"

    Are you opposing paying for the education of all children, or only the non-white ones? Do you oppose accepting the tax money that these kids will pay once they begin working?

  • robin138 springfield, VA
    Dec. 29, 2018 10:00 a.m.

    I think the shutdown is a travesty, and I am especially upset that the 42,000 uniformed members of the United States Coast Guard are currently working without a paycheck. Our coast lines are borders, too.

  • Chessermesser West Valley City, UT
    Dec. 29, 2018 7:50 a.m.

    Can anybody out there give ONE good reason NOT to build the Wall? We have a drug import problem, an influx of illegals (who are a burden to our education, welfare, judicial and prison systems) and cartel violence at unprecedented levels on the Mexican side. The local ranchers even say that the illegals are more prone to violence than they were years ago.

    We will save gobs of money if we build the Wall. This is a no-brainer.

    To paraphrase from the movie “Field of Dreams” . . . ”if you build it, they WON’T come”.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Dec. 29, 2018 6:29 a.m.

    Saying Congress should meet the President's churlish demands is rather like saying a parent must accommodate a petulant child demanding ice cream.

    The Senate and the House have been too accommodating to the President, often repeating his unreliable claims, assertions and promises.

    Enough already.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    Dec. 29, 2018 6:11 a.m.

    Spangs, you suggested that DT should use $500 million of his own money as a down payment. Remember that DT claims to have seven or eight billion, but never showed any proof of that. At least one estimate of his current wealth was less than 750 million.

    Not that anybody ever expected Trump to part with a buck, let alone five hundred million of them, if he could foist the expense on to somebody else.

  • Jim Chee Lahaina, HI
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:58 p.m.

    UtahBruin - Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:30 p.m.

    "So someone please tell me why we should not have a wall. Again, listen to the question. Why should we not have a wall?"

    IT WON'T WORK!

    Ever since medieval times, walls don't work. You can go over, under, around, and through a wall. It is no better than a fence that just marks the border. The security comes from other places like personnel and technology. Just because Donald Trump wants it doesn't make it a feasible idea. In fact, Trump latched onto the idea for a wall because he saw it as being politically useful. But the main reason not to have a wall is that it won't work.

    The best way to prevent people coming across our southern border is to help alleviate the problems that make them want to come in the first place. Without that, desperate people will make it across the border regardless of Trump's Wall.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:43 p.m.

    Yes they should......the GOP congress.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:42 p.m.

    re: Joe Hill
    Democrats offered 1.5 billion as a compromise which doesn't even fund the maintenance of the existing broken flimsy fence . Border agents all side with the president to build the wall and say without a wall they can never secure our border. Did you know that? 5 billion is only a start on the wall and only a drop in the bucket of a 1 trillion budget. Did you know any of those facts? Do your homework please! I'm proud of president Trump to stand up for American citizens whom are being savaged by illegal drugs and child trafficking and violent illegal criminals like the recent cop killer in California.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:32 p.m.

    Stewart is right in part in that congress is broken but the reason should be understood. The Democrats want an open border because they get votes from it...period. Pelosi says a wall is useless. Our border agents say without a wall they can never secure the border. Who do you believe? Pelosi or our border agents? I tend to side with the men and women who risk their lives daily to try to stop the drugs and child trafficking and terror that floods across are virtually open southern border. I guess you can believe the San Francisco Democrat who is enjoying a 5 start resort in Hawaii right now instead of working out a deal. Pelosi. The one who said your tax cut was crumbs that you didn't need.

  • UtahBruin Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:30 p.m.

    @Silo

    I might suggest you read your own previous comment again. You said nothing of the sort of which you claimed to say. But thanks for the detail, and a bit better of an explanation. I will take all of what you said, and a wall.

    Still in favor of a wall. Nobody had given any good reason to not build a wall. They, including you have given stats. Stats that still don’t justify not building a wall.

    Again, you and everyone else keeps talking about illegal immigrant crossing and tries to defend it. A wall keeps out and stops more than that. So someone please tell me why we should not have a wall. Again, listen to the question. Why should we not have a wall? I can tell you we should have one to stop or slow the flow of illegal border crossing, child trafficking, drug trafficking, weapons trafficking, easy terrorist entry, etc. why should we not have a wall? Cost? Not good enough. Stats of illegal immigrants crossing? Not good enough. With no wall it weakens our country. There is no way to argue that. If a window is open, rain can get in. If a broken window is closed. Rain is forced to try weaker areas to get in which we can watch closer.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:22 p.m.

    If federal workers aren't getting paid, it might be a good idea to make it so that the Congress and the president aren't getting paid either.

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 7:48 p.m.

    Mexico has to pay for the wall because the Democrats broke their promise in 1986 to pay for it, in exchange for amnesty for 2.7 million people. Actually, they are paying for it by taking the responsibility of the caravan migrants, until our court system can catch up with them.

    The wall south of Yuma has a 90-% success rate, combined with e-verify, and interior enforcement, and the triad of laws and the border will solve most of our problem, a visa entry/exit system promised by Clinton will fix the other back door. With 11 million (PEW) -22 million (MIT /Yale) estimates, we have a problem that's not going to be easy, but has to be addressed.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 7:20 p.m.

    @utahbruin
    "The only answer you gave to the question was that we need more enforcement"

    No. It's not the only answer I gave. Read my comment again.

    I specifically said we need more manpower. More deportations. More punishment for employees who hire illegals. More technology. AND more enforcement.

    Every one of those 'answers' I gave shows a direct return on taxpayer dollars. The mythical wall shows no obvious return on investment and Trump has made no effort to provide data to close that gap.

    The Border Patrol president, vice president and public relations officer have all stated in interviews they need headcount, raises, equipment, fencing repairs, and more judges to process the backlog of cases. Not one of them wants a wall instead.

  • The Great Helmsman Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 6:53 p.m.

    Not a dime of U.S. taxpayer money for the wall Mexico is paying for.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 5:54 p.m.

    worf - McAllen, TX
    Dec. 27, 2018 9:28 p.m.
    chopperdan--do the research & study. Mexico has paid.

    ======

    Really?

    Really?

    Please enlighten us and explain exactly how that has happened.

    But I know silence will follow because that is absolutely untrue.

  • Laxman taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 5:48 p.m.

    I don’t have any trouble with the wall. But the promise was for Mexico to pay for it.

  • Thomas Thompson Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 4:37 p.m.

    I'm afraid that Rep. Curtis is merely acting as a shill for Donald Trump in making this pitch. The shut-down is not the fault of Congress, and if fault there be, then it is fully the responsibility of Donald J. Trump. Indeed, Trump not only ordered it, he publicly agreed that he would own this one. Let's let him do that.

  • 1conservative Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 4:01 p.m.

    I have a strong feeling that most of the comments I'm seeing here are more about anti-Trumpism than they are about the wall.

    I'm hoping Trump will stick to his plan of actually shutting down the border if Senate democrats won't go along with the House majority, and Senate Republicans.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 4:00 p.m.

    @Fubijag
    "It is now on the Senate and House to negotiate the differences between the Bill's and send a final version to the president. How is the president stopping this from happening?"

    Because if Congress sends over a clean continuing resolution then Trump would either have to veto it and directly own the blockade or Congress would have to (from the Republican House/Senate perspective) awkwardly override his veto. That's a messy situation for the Republicans so just not sending him the bill makes it not look so bad for the public. If Trump was willing to sign a CR they'd have passed a several week extension in the final hours and avert a shutdown. But he is not, so the Republicans in Congress didn't, and that's why he's the one I blame rather than Republicans in Congress.

  • Fubijag West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 3:22 p.m.

    Frozen
    Thanks for taking the time to address my question. While I agree with you that the Republicans in the house are responsible for the shutdown because they went along with what Trump wants. I still must disagree with it being Trumps responsibility. I believe I read somewhere that the Senate have passed a spending bill and the house have passed a different spending bill (Somebody correct me if I am mistaken here). It is now on the Senate and House to negotiate the differences between the Bill's and send a final version to the president. How is the president stopping this from happening? As John Curtis said, this shutdown is on Congress.

  • UtahBruin Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 2:42 p.m.

    I have to say the best answer so far came from Fitness Freak. Who said "Point is - the wall will greatly slow down the mass exodus from Mexico to here. How could it not?"

    I don't think with a wall that any of the problems get 100% fixed. But to slow it down is key, to allow ICE to do their job which they are doing very well at. And the lefties don't want to keep ICE. Could it be getting in the way of their plans? Just curious.

    I think the best thing we can do is slow the flow, because the lefties plan of no wall just continues to allow the flow and all flows that are left untreated get bigger, and I don't think we can fix it completely, but the wall will help slow it. So far folks, I am still in favor of the wall. Nobody has told me why there should not be a wall. If it could help in anyway I think it is worth it. It would not be useless.

  • UtahBruin Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 2:38 p.m.

    @JimChee

    Says the guy who has a natural wall in thousands of miles of Ocean. Thanks for playing, but frankly you don't get it when you are in Hawaii. And you didn't answer the question.

    @Madrigal

    But it is not just an immigration thing, so people coming here legally on visas and then staying to long has nothing to do with the wall. That is an ICE thing that the lefties keep fighting and say is a bad thing. So in return, how do we keep illegals from crossing illegally, and although you shook it off, stop or reducing child trafficking over the border, as well as drug trafficking and guns. All you did was give other ways it happens. Which I agree with. But what do you do to stop or reduce it?

    @UtahBlueDevil

    I can see that, my argument question back would be, would a deterrent like that help alone. I do realize this comes down to cost vs results, and currently we do not have anything to go off of, except other countries that really do not have the same problem we have, or as big anyway.

    @Silo

    The only answer you gave to the question was that "we need more enforcement" so how do we do that? Right now, more enforcement is a wall, and it is not concrete. So how?

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 2:25 p.m.

    @Fubijag
    "Will somebody please explain to me how this shutdown is Trumps fault."

    Some Democrats here argue that since the GOP controls the House, Senate, and White House it's their fault but unless such a party has 60 votes in the Senate both sides can intrude. So where does blame come in?

    A non-partisan view of shutdown blame is that whoever is using the budget/continuing resolution to pick a fight on a policy change, that is who is obstructing the funding of government and responsible for the shutdown. In this circumstance Congress could get a bill passed (a clean CR even passed with unanimous consent in the Senate) to extend funding 6 weeks but the House didn't take that up because the Republicans are held up with Trump who is insisting on the addition of a wall. That wall is new policy. That wall is not a part of the standard budget and being insisted upon. This is Trump's shutdown.

    Now if we take a different scenario like a year ago when Democrats were demanding reinstatement of DACA. That was a Democratic shutdown even with no control because they were the ones who wanted something extra brought into the budget debate.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 2:23 p.m.

    Walls seem to work pretty well for Israel, if it didn't work they would simply remove it! So too with U.S. embassies, neighbors, even Temple Square.

    Point is - the wall will greatly slow down the mass exodus from Mexico to here. How could it not? And its' long overdue.

    Its' only one part of a comprehensive border enforcement policy, but long-term, it will most likely be found to be one of the least expensive.

    Electronic countermeasures will also be useful as are air patrols, but the wall actually sends the message that we WILL protect our borders.

    We also need employers cited/arrrested, who are hiring the trespassers, and we need Congress to change the laws such that we're not spending mass amounts of money/time dealing with OBVIOUS trespassing violations.

    ICE is doing a good job apprehending those in the interior of the country illegally, and should be congratulated for their efforts.

    All these things are only about 30 yrs. overdue

    Emigrants should be asking for permission before they enter!

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 2:18 p.m.

    The problem is that somebody wanted to pick an immigration reform fight in the budget. Except Trump isn't really looking for an immigration reform fight, he just wants his wall in exchange for nothing. That's not a negotiation. That's a petulant child.

    @worf
    "Democrats will fight for not having a wall because they will use it in 2020 to say Trump doesn't keep his promises."

    Democrats will mock the "Mexico paying for it" bit and call that a lie but Democrats do not want the wall regardless of who pays for it so it makes zero sense for Democrats to try and tell voters to blame Trump for the lack of wall Democrats blocked.

    "do any Democrat speak positively of the United States?"

    You voted for someone whose slogan implicitly stated that America was not great. And besides, much of the time when Democrats are opposing Trump whether it be on treatment of refugees, or asylum seekers, or environmental concerns, it is based largely on the simple moral premise that America is better than what he would make of it.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 1:37 p.m.

    Folks, the Wall is 14th Century technology. And they don't work. Ask China or France.

  • Fubijag West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 1:31 p.m.

    @Open Minded,
    You say that Trump is to blame for the shutdown, based on what?? When did he Veto a spending bill of any kind? He threatened to Veto a bill that didn't contain money for his wall. However until a bill is on his desk he is NOT RESPONSIBLE. Congress is. The president does not make law. He cannot pass a bill. He is not responsible for anything that congress does or does not do. He stated that he would shut down the government without his demanded funding. Meaning he would Veto any bill that did not have the funding. He has not been given that opportunity therefore he is not responsible.

  • silo Sandy, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:55 p.m.

    @utahbruin
    "Tell me why we don't need a wall and what the fix is."

    Because the raw data does not support the spending on a wall, especially when the US taxpayers are now on the hook for those costs instead of Mexico.

    Illegals: The number of net new illegals year over year is zero. The number of illegals in the US has not changed from around 11 million in 10+ years, per ice/cbp/pew estimates. That means we are removing as many illegals as we receive every year. If we didn't, the number in country would increase every year. It hasn't, and we've managed that without a wall. What's needed is more manpower, more focus on deportation of the 11 million that are here already,, and more focus on punishing businesses that hire illegals

    drugs/crime: Per ice/cbp data, 80% of drugs come through existing ports of entry. Those ports of entry already have walls in addition to fences, security, technology...yet they don't stop 80% of the trafficked drugs. What's needed is more manpower, better technology, and more enforcement. Not more concrete.

    If Trump wants taxpayers to invest in a business venture of a wall, the he should show some ROI estimates on that investment. He hasn't.

  • Mad Hatter Santa Fe, NM
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:51 p.m.

    worf - McAllen, TX
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:22 a.m.

    "Money from Mexico isn't a check straight to the wall.It's appropriated. We received more funding from Mexico this past year than the past. The money came."

    Are we getting foreign aid from Mexico now? Or are they paying us on the installment plan? And when did the Mexican government decide to give us money for a wall?

    Is this the new gambit Fox News is using to say we already have the money for a wall and it's not costing taxpayers a single cent? And where is this magical money of which you speak? Even the Mexican government recognizes this is a political boondoggle grown out of Donald Trump's fevered head.

  • rhodger Cedar City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:52 p.m.

    No sir, It's Trump and no one else. The senate passed the temporary funding measure on a voice vote. The house was prepared to vote on it and would have passed it, but Trump let it be known that he was going to change is fickle mind and veto the bill over his wall. Let's not take him off the hook please.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:52 p.m.

    @worf - McAllen, TX
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:22 a.m.
    @JSKM1232,
    Money from Mexico isn't a check straight to the wall. It's appropriated. We received more funding from Mexico this past year than the past. The money came."

    Your argument makes zero sense. If Mexico has already paid for the wall, why isn't it built yet and why is Trump shutting down the US government to pay for a wall that's already been paid for?

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:50 p.m.

    Utahbruin... the honest answer is because walls are largely ignored ineffective. We as a country should understand that in Berlin, it was largely eneffective in securing the objectives of the Soviet Union. That in Israel just in the past month four tunnels under their state of the art wall were discovered,

    A wall is more symbolic then truly effective. There are too many ways to go over, under , around or through check points to really stop what you describe... particularly for smugglers.

    There are high value places where a barrier would be effective as a deterrent. But most of those sections have already been funded.

    Unfortunately this is more about fulfilling a campaign promise than seeking s real solution.

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:49 p.m.

    @worf - McAllen, TX

    "@JSKM1232,

    Money from Mexico isn't a check straight to the wall. It's appropriated. We received more funding from Mexico this past year than the past. The money came.

    A wall will save many lives. "Lives do matter".

    If we can protect borders of other countries, than why not ours?

    It's not our fault other countries allow evil leaders to put them into poverty and promote crimes.

    Do you lock your doors?"
    = = = = =
    Of course you are able to cite specific supporting evidence for all of this?

    "Money from Mexico isn't a check straight to the wall. It's appropriated" - Appropriated by whom?

    "Do you lock your doors?" - Why? Are you going to be in my neighborhood soon?

  • stevan madrigal Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:42 p.m.

    RE: Utah Bruin
    To answer your question, why build a wall ?- safety and drug trafficking ?
    Most illegal immigrants arrive by overstaying their visas.
    Most drugs arrive via shipping containers .
    Child and weapons trafficking - you should know that the majority of both are inter-state violations, not international.
    per Pew research -
    -The number of Mexican immigrants living in the U.S. illegally has declined by more than 1 million since 2007.
    -There were more apprehensions of non-Mexicans than Mexicans at U.S. borders in fiscal year 2017 for the third time on record.
    -Mexicans were deported from the U.S. 245,306 times in 2016 – up from 169,031 in 2005, but down from a recent high of 308,828 in 2013.
    -Mexican unauthorized immigrant adults are more likely to be long-term residents of the U.S.
    A wall would be an enormous waste of money - our infrastructure is failing, workers have been betrayed by tariffs and trade policies.
    Comprehensive immigration reform from Congress - No wall.

  • Jim Chee Lahaina, HI
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:35 p.m.

    UtahBruin - Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:10 p.m.

    "Doesn't help for some to say yes, and some to say no with all the other lame comments. Tell me why we shouldn't and what we do to protect the borders."

    For the umpteenth time, IT WON'T WORK!

  • UtahBruin Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:10 p.m.

    I am all for a wall. I am all for supporting Trump to hold out and wait as long as he can on this. I know people disagree, and to be honest I am tired of hearing the Fox news and other lame things that some are saying. The wall is just not for illegals, it is for safety, drugs, child trafficking, weapons trafficking, etc.

    So for those who don't want a wall. Honest question. What is your answer? Tell me why I should not want a wall. Cost doesn't matter, time to build it doesn't matter. It is about safety and border control for many different issues. Tell me why we don't need a wall and what the fix is.

    Doesn't help for some to say yes, and some to say no with all the other lame comments. Tell me why we shouldn't and what we do to protect the borders.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, WA
    Dec. 28, 2018 12:02 p.m.

    Correction:
    "Republican led" Congress should accept responsibility for shutdown

    BTW -- Trump is to blame

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:06 a.m.

    JSKM-You evidently don't comprehend the difference in a wall being built to keep people in (East Germany) and keep people out. There is a difference. Enforcement also makes a difference as do crazy immigration policies.

  • The Real Maverick Spanish Fork, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:03 a.m.

    Why did trump shut down the government over “boarder” wall funding? Didn’t he say Mexico would pay for it? Why should his stupid campaign promise be our problem? He promised that Mexico would pay for it. So it sounds like this is between Donald and Mexico. If he can’t fulfill his promises then maybe he should stop making them?

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:44 a.m.

    "The democrats are responsible for the government shutdown because they refuse to come up with any money whatsoever..."

    So Rubydo you missed the 20 Billion the Democrats offered last year, and the 1.6 Billion they offered this year?

    You seriously need to find a fact base source.

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:33 a.m.

    @worf - McAllen, TX
    .
    @chopperdan,

    "Do the homework. Mexico has paid.

    And yes! Democrats will fight for not having a wall because they will use it in 2020 to say Trump doesn't keep his promises. The safety of America doesn't matter to them.

    Other than campaign speeches, do any Democrat speak positively of the United States? Did anyone speak out against the migrants marching through Mexico, or did just one clap during the State of the Union speech? Out of about two hundred fifty Democrats,--at least a few should have.

    In other words, they are all controlled by a central figure/authority. They're sheep and that's not good!"
    = = = = =
    Walls work so well at keeping people contained. Just see how well they worked in East Germany! They work if you put armed guards with orders of "shoot to kill". All it is is a con job to placate his "MAGA hat" wearing supporters. To build the wall we would most probably have to hire Mexican citizens as "day laborers" because most Trump supporters feel that type of job would be beneath them.

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:38 a.m.

    Spangs said:

    "If DJT thinks the Wall is so critical that he will shut down America to do it, then I propose he begin by taking $500 million of his own money and put his money where his mouth is."

    Do you really think he has that amount of money?
    I dont.

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:24 a.m.

    @worf - McAllen, TX

    "chopperdan--do the research & study. Mexico has paid"
    = = = = =
    Of course you're able to support your statement with "Verifiable" facts, not merely statements from Sarah Saunders.

  • JSKM1232 Sandy, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:24 a.m.

    "Rep. Rob Bishop, R-Utah, said the Senate rule requiring 60 votes rather than a simple majority to advance legislation is the real reason for the shutdown, because it's kept the Senate from acting on Trump's requested funding"
    = = = = =
    There's a very good reason for the "Senate Filibuster Rule" to be in place. Unfortunately both parties seemed to feel that the word"compromise" is an expletive. It's to keep an non-compromising Senate and President from putting in place unqualified Secretaries of office, unqualified Judges (all levels) based upon the "spoils system", that's what Ambassadorships are for, It needs to be restored for appointment of ALL Judges and maintained for all Senate business. Congress needs to get back to compromising (no more my way or the highway) for the good of the country.

  • mikerol seattle, WA
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:13 a.m.

    Love all those platitudes being slung about, but neither representative seems willing to say black on white "the wall is an unnecessary fraud" or "build that wall a 100 feet high and keep all those fruit pickers out!"

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:07 a.m.

    The last time Trump compromised on Wall vs. funding bill, the Congress stiffed him. Expect Trump to be not so gullible this time around. About a decade ago, Congress was more than willing to build a wall. Political opportunism raising it's ugly head changed all that. Laxman makes an interesting suggestion : stop salaries of the President and Congress. In this case it will help the President who has signed away his salary. A good wall is necessary for the security of this country above and beyond illegal immigration. At this moment, it is very possible for a terrorist group to infiltrate across our southern border with a portable nuke or, more likely, bacteriological or chemical agents

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:01 a.m.

    There needs to be an incentive for Congress to do their job and reach agreements on spending bills on time to avoid the dreaded "shutdowns."

    Rep. Curtis should propose a law which states that no member of the House or Senate shall be paid any salary, travel expenses or any other money for the entire fiscal year for which ALL budget and appropriations bills have not been passed and signed into law by the required September 30th date. Continuing resolutions specifically do not count as meeting this requirement. If something else prohibits them working for free, then make their salary $1 for such a year.

    That might get them to do their job.

    Frankly, I would rather see the whole lot of them thrown in prison for the full fiscal year when they have failed to do their job on time, but that might be too hard to pass.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 9:33 a.m.

    He is auditioning for next six month cabinet position by the guy that was proud to own the shutdown. Mexico pays for wall as promised.

  • stand up for truth Lehi, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 9:27 a.m.

    A lot of partisan comments here. But let's look at the issue. Trump wants $5 billion. The Democrats say it is unnecessary and too costly.

    But even if you are for illegal entry and sanctuary cities, look at the cost: the truth is that we spend more than $5 billion each and every year on illegal aliens.

    From a pure financial perspective, building the wall is a no-brainer.

    And for those who say a wall is ineffective, well, let me ask you "Do you have walls and doors on your home?" Why? It is not just to keep out the elements. Do you lock your doors? Why?

  • Furry1993 MSC, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 9:27 a.m.

    @worf - Dec. 27, 2018 9:28 p.m.
    chopperdan--do the research & study. Mexico has paid.

    -----
    Tell me when Mexico has delivered a check that cleared or wired secure funds to pay for this ineffective and unneeded wall. I haven't seen anything in the real news (mainstream news) or the fake news (FoxNews, et al.) indicating that any payment from Mexico had been received, or even sent. I'm sure that if Mexico had made a payment, the occupant of the Oval Office would have been jumping up and down in glee, crowing as loud as he could, instead of what he has done -- his whining and throwing an infantile temper tantrum to try to distract people from the fact that nothing happened. And no, his trying to re-make NAFTA doesn't qualify as payment.

    The occupant of the Oval Office is just trying to obfuscate and distract attention from his failures. Again. In doing so, he is hurting a lot of people out of spite by denying them their income and putting them in financial difficulty. The occupant of the Oval Office is doing that, and nobody else. The government shutdown is entirely his fault. He owns it.

  • Rubydo Provo, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 9:18 a.m.

    The democrats are responsible for the government shutdown because they refuse to come up with any money whatsoever to secure the border while there are exploited immigrants and drugs flowing into our country. The democrats would rather keep the border open than the government.

  • BlueHusky Saratoga Springs, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 9:10 a.m.

    GOP has controlled Congress for 2 years and wall has not passed. Can't blame Democrats for this.

    Much illegal immigration travels by air with student or visitor visa, then doesn't go back. Other illegals are smuggled in tractor trailers. Pack a dozen "immigrants" into the front of the trailer, stack cargo in the back of a 53-foot trailer. Hundreds of trucks go through every day. Can't unload and inspect them all.

    Tunnels are common and easy. Buy a house in Mexico, buy another in US, tunnel between them.

    Wall is stupid idea anyway. Too easy to defeat. Much border land is on Indian land, ranches, etc. Public Domain processes would take years to settle.

    Spend more on electronic surveillance, satellite, drones.

    Finally get real about the numbers. Trump's racist exaggerations, "... rapists, murderers, and, I suppose, some decent people" are simply not true.

    How about some projects that do work: trade policies that provide more jobs in Latin America? We spend billions in the Middle East. What do we do in Latin America?

  • Fubijag West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 9:00 a.m.

    Will somebody please explain to me how this shutdown is Trumps fault. All he does spew out alot of hot air and threats saying he will not sign a bill without funding for the wall. That is the only thing he can do until a bill is placed on his desk. That hasn't happened yet. Congress' job is to pass a bill and deliver it to the president. This has not happened. It's time to call Trumps bluff and make him veto the bill. Then and only then will this be Trumps shutdown. Until that happens this is Congress not doing their job.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Dec. 28, 2018 8:53 a.m.

    He is, of course, correct, but it is easier to blame Trump. It also fits the narrative of the MSM and the Democrat 'Resistance'.

  • Laxman taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 8:52 a.m.

    Congress and the President are considered essential employees. They all continue to receive their paychecks even in the shutdown. They don’t feel the pain that other federal employees are feeling. That should change.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 8:47 a.m.

    Inasmuch as the entire government is controlled by the Republicans, they own the shutdown. And Bishop clearly doesn't get the idea of political compromise, particularly as a proponent of the Hastert Rule. I hope Bishop has a miserable time in the minority. He was as partisan and heavy-handed as they come, and he deserves some payback. Curtis is, I think, more reasonable. But in the end, a President who was not petulant, incompetent and immature could have forged a compromise. But that's not in the cards, is it?

    @ worf, thanks for the laughs today!

  • Spangs Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 8:46 a.m.

    If DJT thinks the Wall is so critical that he will shut down America to do it, then I propose he begin by taking $500 million of his own money and put his money where his mouth is. If he feels this is so important as to take food out of the mouths of 700k workers scraping by, then he should have the decency to make a sacrifice himself.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 8:45 a.m.

    worf - McAllen, TX
    Dec. 27, 2018 9:28 p.m.
    "chopperdan--do the research & study. Mexico has paid."

    you are incorrect...again. any legitimate support for that claim or just the usual "speculation?"

  • SMcloud Sandy, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 8:23 a.m.

    President Trump doesn't realize how congress works. It's a game of compromise and you have to work together to come to an agreement. He's a President, not a Dictator.

    He can't just hold the government hostage every time he wants something.
    This is getting stupid.

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 8:05 a.m.

    Pretty sure its Mexico's fault. They were suppose to pay for trumps monument to pandering.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 6:41 a.m.

    "Trump will graciously decline John Curtis's chivalry because it completely not like him to fix blame on others."

    This was sarcastic, right...... that Trump would accept blame. I know he said he would but faster than you can bat an eye he changed his mind and now blames the Democrats.

    I'm trying to figure out what Trump has accepted responsibility for - something that went wrong. It's always been someone else fault.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 6:40 a.m.

    Rep. Curtis, you are right. For two years your party had control over all the elements to come to a real solution over immigration. That solution could have include the so desired wall. It also should have included immigration reform.

    But no. It was too scary for you all to do the right thing. You worried too much that the "right thing" would offend your base too much, because it would necessitate a compromise on some issues.

    So you all just kicked the can down the road, hoping that somehow the issue would just go away. But you all knew it wouldn't because even if you did get a wall, you knew it would not solve the real problem. So yes, I agree. You had all the tools to implement a real solution, but you choose not to. We would not be in this position had you all actually done your job. And you didn't.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 6:32 a.m.

    Sorry, John, I still prefer that the Senate has a 60 vote requirement to pass bills; so far it's the only thing saving us from Republicans.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 28, 2018 6:21 a.m.

    "Rep. Rob Bishop, R-Utah, said the Senate rule requiring 60 votes rather than a simple majority to advance legislation is the real reason for the shutdown"

    So Congressman Bishop wants to disband a centuries old Senate procedure simply to allow the president to have his way after he changed his mind because he was getting pressure from right wing media stars?

    Unlike what some here have claimed, the wall will not provide added security to our borders and clearly has not been thoroughly considered for it's complexity of construction. The 1900+ miles of the southern border has a variety of mixed terrain that would be extremely expensive to navigate with a wall construction. Added to that complexity would be all the ownership issues requiring eminent domain with some property owners operating ranches that cross the border. The wall, and it's undetermined cost, would not be as effective as adding new technology, fixing existing broken down systems and adding additional manpower at the border. The wall could take decades to complete.

    The only thing that wall will achieve is to be a lasting reminder of how foolish we are for having supported the will of a foolish president.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 28, 2018 6:19 a.m.

    How about we stop cutting taxes until we cut spending?
    Wanna fund the wall? How about a "Trump Wall" tax to do that?

    Or, do you just want to put it on the credit card for our future generations.

    Republicans only complain about the deficit under Democratic leadership.

    (and dont forget. Congress spends virtually every penny. Who has controlled congress for the last 8 years?)

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Dec. 28, 2018 5:25 a.m.

    @worf

    “Do the homework. Mexico has paid.”

    Then why the shutdown?

  • Mad Hatter Santa Fe, NM
    Dec. 28, 2018 4:18 a.m.

    worf - McAllen, TX
    Dec. 27, 2018 9:28 p.m.

    " . . . do the research & study. Mexico has paid."

    Is that what they're telling you on Fox News? If Mexico has already payed, why is Donald Trump wanting American taxpayers to put up the funds. Wouldn't the Mexican payment be in a special account that is separate from our budget and over which Congress would have no further say?

    Please explain. Why does Trump want Congress to give him $5 million if the money sits in a special account for wall construction? By the way, how much money has Mexico given for this wall? Did they factor in the costs of expropriating land and the multiple lawsuits that might slow things down considerably? And will they replace all the existing fencing that already exists with a contiguous concrete wall initially designed and planned and for which you say Mexico has already paid?

    Also, is this special account funded by Mexico sufficient to pay for cost over-runs and any geographical problems encountered beyond the lawsuits being planned? What does Fox say about these issues? Or is this part of the fever dream Trump had prior to coming down the escalator and launching his ridiculous, xenophobic proposal?

  • JBs Logan, UT
    Dec. 27, 2018 11:47 p.m.

    Trump is to blame. There were several deals and Trump blew them. He even backed out after giving his word. While congress shoulders responsibility, Trump has no concept of how to negotiate. So much for The Art of the Deal.

  • JaneB Wilsonville, OR
    Dec. 27, 2018 11:41 p.m.

    Trump's border wall is not a priority for most Americans, according to polls. 69% of voters don't believe a border wall is even necessary. Most don't want a gov shutdown over it, either.

    I agree with Curtis. This is on the congress. The GOP congress. Even though Trump said he would take responsibility. They need to do their jobs, not matter how feckless Trump is. And let's face it, he's not suddenly going to start being responsible.

  • Chessermesser West Valley City, UT
    Dec. 27, 2018 10:47 p.m.

    Build the Wall. Stop all the illegal activity crossing our porous southern border.

  • TAS Tehachapi, CA
    Dec. 27, 2018 10:39 p.m.

    Congressman Curtis needs to round up all the Democratic members of Congress and half the Republicans and pass the bill to continue funding the Government, then do the same thing in the Senate. If he accomplishes this, he has a veto proof majority that Trump could not overide.

  • Daedalus, Stephen ARVADA, CO
    Dec. 27, 2018 10:36 p.m.

    @worf: "...do the research & study. Mexico has paid."

    Wow. That was easy. Lemme give it a try:

    "Trump followers -- do the research & study. The Wall is complete."

    Yay!

    Are we done now?

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Dec. 27, 2018 10:25 p.m.

    @chopperdan,

    Do the homework. Mexico has paid.

    And yes! Democrats will fight for not having a wall because they will use it in 2020 to say Trump doesn't keep his promises. The safety of America doesn't matter to them.

    Other than campaign speeches, do any Democrat speak positively of the United States? Did anyone speak out against the migrants marching through Mexico, or did just one clap during the State of the Union speech? Out of about two hundred fifty Democrats,--at least a few should have.

    In other words, they are all controlled by a central figure/authority. They're sheep and that's not good!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 27, 2018 10:12 p.m.

    ExDixiete noted it. The LA times noted it:
    “You know what I'll say? ‘Yes, if we don't get what we want one way or the other, whether it's through you, through military, through anything you want to call, I will shut down the government.’”

    This is the trump shutdown.

  • chopperdan Clovis, NM
    Dec. 27, 2018 10:05 p.m.

    Worf.

    You are mistaken, if Mexico has already paid for the wall, why is Trump shutting down the government to get United States tax payers to pay for it?

    Mexico has not paid for the wall and never will. Trumps promise in this regard is simply something he said to get elected. Another false statement from a person who tells lies constantly. According to one news outlet 6,420 false and misleading statements up until this November!You can simply look the other way, or worse approve of his falsehoods. Either way its not a good reflection on his supporters, especially those who profess to be honorable.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Dec. 27, 2018 9:28 p.m.

    chopperdan--do the research & study. Mexico has paid.

  • chopperdan Clovis, NM
    Dec. 27, 2018 8:39 p.m.

    Rep Curtis: The promise was to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it—Not American Taxpayers. So its time to step up and require Trump to fund his wall as promised. Why don’t you speak out about that?

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 27, 2018 8:36 p.m.

    Congress is to blame. The "shutdown" is merely the lack of funding appropriations for one or more departments. Congress has habitually failed to do their job to pass these bills by the 30 September deadline for a decade or longer. This year the House did much better, but the Senate has been derelict every year.
    So, after cowardly failing to address spending disagreements to arrive at a spending bill and passing it on time, one or both chambers pass "continuing resolutions" (CR) to just keep on spending at the last level and setting a new deadline to agree in regular funding. That deadline is usually ignored and more CR's passed. If Republicans dare object to the CR charades and try to force votes on spending bills, the Democrat/Media howls or outrage spank the R's soundly.

    Border security funding has been promised but never delivered, despite several amnesties ever since Simpson-Mazzoli in 1986. Good on Trump for insisting on getting border security funded now. Don't fall for promises to do it later, as Congress will not keep their word.

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 27, 2018 8:25 p.m.

    I think greatness in our leaders is defined when a leader like Trump says he will accept full responsibility and he means it..

    John Curtis extends great chivalry when he says he will accept part of the blame.

    Trump will graciously decline John Curtis's chivalry because it completely not like him to fix blame on others.

  • Joe Hilll Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 27, 2018 7:53 p.m.

    “I am proud to shut down the government. I will be the one to shut it down. I will not blame you,” Trump said on national TV to chuck schumer. Democrates and republicans in Congress have bills that include money for border security that has by partisan support. This falls squarely onTrump and those in the house that buckled to his temper tantrums.

  • ExDixieIte Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 27, 2018 7:50 p.m.

    “You want to know something? I’ll take it. Yes, if we don’t get what we want one way or the other, whether it’s through you, through military, through anything you want to call — I will shut down the government. I am proud to shut down the government. I will take the mantle.”

    - Donald J. Trump
    December 12, 2018

    Looks pretty clear to me.