In our opinion: Because of one miraculous birth, the wrong shall fail

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  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 11:58 p.m.

    Unrepentant,

    When it comes to belief systems, why does anyone have to prove their position? Or, if one is challenged to prove their own beliefs, why would the other not be challenged to prove their belief system, or lack of belief.

    It is interesting that one group is required to prove nothing, in your opinion, but others must do so?

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Dec. 28, 2018 3:50 p.m.

    Logic 101

    You do not have to prove a negative. It is not up to naysayers to prove there is not deity. It is up to those who do so.

    And besides.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 28, 2018 10:13 a.m.

    Thomas Jefferson,

    I am basing my thoughts and beliefs on scripture--the testimony of prophets. I choose to believe their words, which brings understanding and peace. I don't mean to sound prideful or know of God's plan or His ways beyond what prophets have taught.

    It is a choice. It is agency. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way, which was never my intention. I could be completely wrong on God and religion and faith. But if wrong, I feel the Judeo-Christian values that have served as the foundation for our nation for centuries is what gives us our strength. If we depart from that, we fail as a nation. I am quite confident of that. We are already stumbling and slipping due to secular ideas that are taking hold in our nation.

    If I am right....

    You asked what proof I have of God's existence? All of creation testifies of God. Move your finger--was that evolution? A primordial soup evolved into mankind? And now we have feelings, intelligence, agency, rational thought, fine motor skills, and the miracle of life? This concept of a Big Bank (chaos) turning into an organized system devoid of God is quite impossible.

    What proof have you that God does not exist?

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 27, 2018 1:28 p.m.

    David said:

    "God has all power and all knowledge."

    You should start with the existence before you tell me about 'his' power and knowledge. Prove that first.

    "And to remain God, He must also adhere to Divine, Eternal law."

    What do you base this on?

    "One law is that if agency."
    ???

    "He must allow the agency of others, even if exercising that agency is counter to His wisdom and commandments. Even if that agency hurts others if His children."

    Why? And how do you know that?

    "We cannot understand all of God’s ways."

    But you were just telling me his 'ways'.

    "In our mortal, “fallen” state, we are to learn if Him, and follow His counsel."

    I never hear god speak. Dont you mean the council of those who tell us that they speak for 'him'?

    "Though we cannot understand all things, including the seeming injustices that abound all around us, if we have faith in a God, we will have peace, because He has promised that every tear will be dried, every sorrow will be lifted. The day of a perfect balance of mercy and justice will arrive. The lofty and proud will be debased, and the humble and meek lifted."

    Thanks. There is nothing so humble as someone who 'knows' what 'god' wants.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 26, 2018 7:14 p.m.

    Hutterite,

    I wish I could reference the author and book of the following idea. Since I cannot, I’ll share it with a challenge to anyone interested to research the following in their own:

    God has all power and all knowledge. And to remain God, He must also adhere to Divine, Eternal law. One law is that if agency. He must allow the agency of others, even if exercising that agency is counter to His wisdom and commandments. Even if that agency hurts others if His children.

    We cannot understand all of God’s ways. In our mortal, “fallen” state, we are to learn if Him, and follow His counsel. Though we cannot understand all things, including the seeming injustices that abound all around us, if we have faith in a God, we will have peace, because He has promised that every tear will be dried, every sorrow will be lifted. The day of a perfect balance of mercy and justice will arrive. The lofty and proud will be debased, and the humble and meek lifted.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 26, 2018 4:29 p.m.

    "Some people prayers would change God. Those who know God, pray that he may change them to become more like him and his son, Jesus Christ."

    However, at the same time, "The powers of the world are utterly incapable of frustrating the plans of an omniscient and loving God. ".

    The script is written. Alea Jacta Est, the dice has been cast. God's plan for you, this being the case, is in place and your destiny pre ordained. The powers of the world are incapable of changing it, we're told. If God, then, wants to change you to become more like him and his son, Jesus Christ, that too you have to accept is either already part of the plan or you're asking him to change the plan. In your favour. Even though such a request is incapable of frustrating gods' plans.

    I can't say that I know god does or doesn't exist. I don't believe I can know one way or the other. Regardless, I've certainly had more than a little cause to wonder about god and his plan when I see the actions carried out by those that do claim to know. In any case, Merry Christmas.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Dec. 26, 2018 12:13 p.m.

    Mike Richards says:

    "Those who know God..."

    -- Are fooling themselves.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 26, 2018 11:02 a.m.

    Hutterite,
    Some people prayers would change God. Those who know God, pray that he may change them to become more like him and his son, Jesus Christ.

    Longfellow got it right in the 4th verse (even though his son had been severely wounded when a bullet narrowly missed his spine):

    4. Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
    “God is not dead, nor doth he sleep;
    The wrong shall fail, the right prevail,
    With peace on earth, good will to men.”

    Christ's gift to us was himself, his life, his atonement, his endless love. What gift are we willing to give him? All that he asks from us is a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 25, 2018 9:20 p.m.

    "The powers of the world are utterly incapable of frustrating the plans of an omniscient and loving God. "
    Then why do we constantly beseech this same god to suspend or modify this plan in our favour, and call it prayer? In this vision, at best we are players on the stage, and the script written.

  • Jim Schwartz Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Dec. 25, 2018 1:12 p.m.

    @Thomas Thompson - Here's one for you:

    THE WISE
    by Brother Antoninus

    Miles across the turbulent kingdom
    They came for it
    but that was nothing
    That was the Least.
    Drunk with vision
    rain stringing the ragged beards
    when a beast Lamed they caught another
    and goaded west.

    For the time was on them.
    Once as it may in the Life of a man;
    Once as it was in the Life of mankind
    All is corrected.
    And the years of pursuit

    Raw-eyed reading the wrong texts
    Charting the doubtful calculations
    Those nights knotted with thought
    When dawn held off
    and the rooster
    Rattled the leaves with his blind assertion.

    All that they regarded under the Sign
    No longer as search but as preparation.
    For when the mark was made they saw it.
    Nor stopped to reckon the fallible years
    But rejoiced and followed
    And are called wise who learned that Truth
    When sought and at last seen

    Is never found. It is given.

    And they brought their camels
    Breakneck into that village
    and flung themselves down in the dung and dirt of that place
    and kissed that ground
    and the tears
    ran on the face where the rain had.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Dec. 25, 2018 11:48 a.m.

    God is indescribable is overwhelming all unimportant the Great I Am. That is God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit is all one. When ya see that His world is all planned from the start. Jesus had returned 40 years after he died an destroyed the Temple an all their genealogy. No one knows what tribe Israel they are or if they are a Jew. We all have an expiration date. That is when you will see Jesus again. If you can accept Jesus. Religions come an go but Jesus is the rock an nothing can change that. We all have a come to Jesus moment when you bypass or accept Him. Jesus is not a idle like some statue of a building but a real supernatural force that is life and freedom an love. But by the Grace (gift) of God go I. I can't make up my mistakes or prove I'm good. That is faith in Him the Great I Am.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Dec. 25, 2018 9:29 a.m.

    Thanks for making an effort to express your own thoughts on Christmas rather than just rerunning "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus."

  • TJ Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 25, 2018 9:03 a.m.

    Unfortunately, the powers of the world can destroy many individual lives. The saviors mission was to convince all to take advantage of his atonement and overcome their individual sins / weaknesses. May all of us take advantage of this greatest of gifts.

  • Thomas Thompson Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 25, 2018 6:36 a.m.

    Many thanks for this -- despite my reservations about Longfellow as a poet. It's difficult to write about these ultimate issues, but this editorial gets it exactly right. For a slightly different view, readers may wish to look up T. S. Eliot's fine poem, "The Journey of the Magi."

  • WolfZ Pleasant Grove, UT
    Dec. 25, 2018 6:34 a.m.

    I love your article and opinion this day on Christmas Day. I am exercising my right to shout out "Merry Christmas" to all. In our day, as well as in Longfellow's, hate is strong, and mocks the song of Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Men. Peace on Earth will finally come when Jesus Christ comes to Earth again. In the meantime personal peace that comes from within can be ours as we are willing to to spread good will to everyone within our circles of influence, striving to do as the Savior did. We aren't individually perfect but if our desires and our hearts are pointed in the right direction, the right will prevail.