Brad Rock: Utah Utes need an offensive coordinator that can live in Kyle Whittingham's world

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  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 21, 2018 9:10 a.m.

    @Coug-On-UGA-Bandwagon

    1- D'Andre Swift
    2- Zamir White (I've already stated Moss could be 3rd now because of his injury)
    3- Elijah Holyfield
    4- Zack Moss (he'd have to beat out Herrien and Cook to get here though)

    We can keep beating this dead horse I guess if you insist on bringing it up all the time. All 3 of the RBs I have ahead of him are simply more talented backs, per experts and coaches that evaluate talent for a living. Nothing against Moss, he's a talented kid, but there's no way he starts over those top 3. So I have experts, coaches, and recruiters backing my theory. Who's backing yours?

    ------------

    I already told you this, according to Athlon Sports 2018 Top 25 running backs.

    We'll see what the NFL draft thinks.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 21, 2018 9:03 a.m.

    @CougarForever

    Next year we will have better WRs, a better O-line and a better QB than the Ute counterparts. The fact that Chase Roberts chose BYU despite multiple factors that favored Utah speaks volumes about the quality of the QBs who he thinks will be throwing the ball for each team. We will have QB superiority for at least the foreseeable future.

    ---------

    Who is Oral Roberts?

    We have a 4-start WR commit Darren Jones.

    BYU does not have a better WR or OL or QB. Wilson would be the #3 QB at Utah, just like 4-Star Tuttle was.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 21, 2018 8:51 a.m.

    @Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT

    But my concern in this whole discussion is that you can't remember what YOU said. You said I brought up BYU first by saying "big red machine" was adorable. Regardless what context it was in, Laxman referred to Utah as "big red machine". Nowhere in my reply to his statement do I mention BYU, but YOU do.

    -----------

    So YOU, a BYU fan, felt necessary to mock Utah by taking Laxman out of context?

    And you expect not to be called out as a BYU homer?

    Priceless!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 21, 2018 8:46 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 20, 2018 1:52 p.m.
    Uteology:
    "No, you said Utah won the weakest South in history..."

    Was I wrong? We can certainly argue Sagarin and records or anything else, but I still think this is the worst the South has ever looked. And while that's an opinion, I think there are reasonable observers that would agree.

    ----------

    Yes you are wrong!

    In fact, your Team B won a worse division in 2017 SEC-East.

  • CougarForever Holladay, Utah
    Dec. 20, 2018 10:38 p.m.

    It is odd that Whittingham has a view of college football offense that most of us would view as archaic and goes through OCs like they are disposable trinkets.

    Do you know what would happen if Whittingham hired, and left alone, a gifted and innovative OC (which he surely could find)? Utah's football team would become similar to the teams Utah had when Urban Meyer was HC and Whittingham was the DC. Fortunately for us (and Utah's PAC-12 brethren), that will never happen because of Whittingham's insistence on a pedestrian approach to offense. Utah will continue to be a relatively good team (with its typical semi-stout defense), but never a great team.

    Next year we will have better WRs, a better O-line and a better QB than the Ute counterparts. The fact that Chase Roberts chose BYU despite multiple factors that favored Utah speaks volumes about the quality of the QBs who he thinks will be throwing the ball for each team. We will have QB superiority for at least the foreseeable future.

    I really think that we will prevail on Aug 29 -- thanks, in large part, to the ceiling on the Ute offense set by Utah's head coach and our upward trajectory on both offensive and defense.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 20, 2018 1:52 p.m.

    Uteology:
    "No, you said Utah won the weakest South in history..."

    Was I wrong? We can certainly argue Sagarin and records or anything else, but I still think this is the worst the South has ever looked. And while that's an opinion, I think there are reasonable observers that would agree.

    But my concern in this whole discussion is that you can't remember what YOU said. You said I brought up BYU first by saying "big red machine" was adorable. Regardless what context it was in, Laxman referred to Utah as "big red machine". Nowhere in my reply to his statement do I mention BYU, but YOU do.

    Then you claim I "jumped on the SEC bandwagon to claim how weak the South is". However it was actually YOU who brought up the SEC when you said- "Why don't you share with us how great the SEC-East is...". I wasn't arguing anything about the SEC, until YOU threw them in.

    Look through the thread. First mention of BYU- YOU. First mention of SEC- YOU. I can't have a reasonable debate with someone who doesn't know when HE has brought new variables to the debate, tries to zing me with those variables, and then doesn't even remember that HE brought them up first.

    So that'll be all. Good day

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 19, 2018 4:20 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 3:48 p.m.
    Myth:
    "Didn't your Team B win the SEC-East in 2017? Where was SEC-East ranked in 2017?"

    I "called out Utah" for winning a weak PAC12 South THIS year. Why are you bringing 2017 into it? U are all over the map today. And FWIW, UGA clobbered every team they played in the East (this year and last year, since now we're talking about 2017 apparently)...U didn't. UGA dominated their weak division last year...U had to rely on Oregon at the 11th hour this year. See the difference?

    --------------

    No, you said Utah won the weakest South in history and you were wrong.

    Your Team B did win the weakest SEC-East (#9) in history in 2017.

    See the difference?

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 3:48 p.m.

    Myth:
    "Didn't your Team B win the SEC-East in 2017? Where was SEC-East ranked in 2017?"

    I "called out Utah" for winning a weak PAC12 South THIS year. Why are you bringing 2017 into it? U are all over the map today. And FWIW, UGA clobbered every team they played in the East (this year and last year, since now we're talking about 2017 apparently)...U didn't. UGA dominated their weak division last year...U had to rely on Oregon at the 11th hour this year. See the difference?

    Stimulating as always Uteology, but I really have to get some work done now. Have a good evening.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 19, 2018 3:20 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 1:59 p.m.
    "YOU as a BYU or SEC-East fan have no room to talk to anyone about winning in a weak division."

    SEC- East is the number 2 rated division in America, only behind the SEC- West. The Pac12 South was the second to last rated division in the P5 (only the ACC coastal was weaker).

    Care to retract? Lol

    Ratings per Sagarin

    -----------

    Didn't your Team B win the SEC-East in 2017? Where was SEC-East ranked in 2017?

    Sagarin Division Rankings:

    2018: PAC-12 South #8 (SEC-East #2)
    2017: South #8 (East #9)
    2016: South #9 (East #8)
    2015: South #4 (East #9)
    2014: South #2 (East #3)
    2013: South #3 (East #4)

    So I ask again, why do you keep calling out Utah for winning in a weak conference when clearly SEC-East isn't much better?

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 3:15 p.m.

    Utemyth:
    "Really? You think Utah and BYU talent level is the same.

    You did it again...where did I say their talent level was the same? I said "watching them (BYU) or the U recruiting is depressing". And it IS depressing. It's a 3 star parade for Utah and a 2 star parade for BYU...both depressing, and both not good enough to achieve their respective goals on a consistent basis. Doesn't mean their goals or their talent is the same. How do you get "BYU and Utah talent level is the same" from my statement?
    =======
    "This is the same guy who said Moss, a NFL prospect, would not make the 4 deep at Georgia in 2018".

    1- D'Andre Swift
    2- Zamir White (I've already stated Moss could be 3rd now because of his injury)
    3- Elijah Holyfield
    4- Zack Moss (he'd have to beat out Herrien and Cook to get here though)

    We can keep beating this dead horse I guess if you insist on bringing it up all the time. All 3 of the RBs I have ahead of him are simply more talented backs, per experts and coaches that evaluate talent for a living. Nothing against Moss, he's a talented kid, but there's no way he starts over those top 3. So I have experts, coaches, and recruiters backing my theory. Who's backing yours?

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 1:59 p.m.

    "YOU as a BYU or SEC-East fan have no room to talk to anyone about winning in a weak division."

    SEC- East is the number 2 rated division in America, only behind the SEC- West. The Pac12 South was the second to last rated division in the P5 (only the ACC coastal was weaker).

    Care to retract? Lol

    Ratings per Sagarin

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 19, 2018 1:32 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 12:35 p.m.
    Mythology:
    "Be honest, you didn't even bother to check the BYU recruiting board today?"

    Can't say I have...watching them or the U recruiting is depressing.

    -------

    Really? You think Utah and BYU talent level is the same.

    This is the same guy who said Moss, a NFL prospect, would not make the 4 deep at Georgia in 2018.

    LOL

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 19, 2018 1:28 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 12:47 p.m.
    Utemyth:
    "YOU said it was "adorable" that Laxman said Utah owns BYU."

    One last thing...I didn't say any such thing. His "big red machine" comment was what was "adorable". Where did I say anything about BYU? Where in my whole post was BYU mentioned? YOU brought them up, just as I said you did...don't put your words (or Laxman's) in my mouth.

    ------

    He was referring to "big red machine" in reference to 8 stright vs BYU.

    You, a BYU fan, chimed in with "adorable" and a made a false claim of 2018 South being the weakest.

    YOU as a BYU or SEC-East fan have no room to talk to anyone about winning in a weak division.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 12:56 p.m.

    "You got me!! Oh the horra, the horra lol. At least try and be original or show some semblance of creativity"

    coogndog:

    More passive-aggressive shtick from an alt team/coog fan. You folks spread out quite a bit when you can't prop up the coogs. If it's not the Bulldogs, it's the Bruins/Huskies/Bears/Trojans/Turtles, etc, etc.

    How original, indeed!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 12:47 p.m.

    Utemyth:
    "YOU said it was "adorable" that Laxman said Utah owns BYU."

    One last thing...I didn't say any such thing. His "big red machine" comment was what was "adorable". Where did I say anything about BYU? Where in my whole post was BYU mentioned? YOU brought them up, just as I said you did...don't put your words (or Laxman's) in my mouth.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 12:35 p.m.

    Mythology:
    "Be honest, you didn't even bother to check the BYU recruiting board today?"

    Can't say I have...watching them or the U recruiting is depressing. Who knows though, maybe their inexperienced OC and Kyle's 11th OC can get more out of them than the stars predict.

    Also, could you mention to NV that parties and chats happen over the internet. In regards to the party at DawgNation he said "How would you know, you live in Utah"...I think he believes DawgNation is a place and not a news outlet/forum that anyone from Utah or Cambodia can celebrate on. I assumed since he is omniscient that he already knew that. Maybe if I sent him an e-vite? Lol

    Until next time, fellas.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 11:19 a.m.

    NV:
    "You DO know you're not fooling anyone here, don't you? We know you're not a Georgia fan. You're just a cougar fan..."

    You got me!! Oh the horra, the horra lol. At least try and be original or show some semblance of creativity...again, you and myth need to find some new material, this angst over Georgia is definitely "old hat".

    And you "DO know" you have no clue about anyone's personal life on these threads right? The god complex is hilarious though. Ute fan myopia...gold.

    Georgia just flipped a 4 star QB and has signed four 5 stars already today...how's the little "red machine" doing? lol

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 19, 2018 11:00 a.m.

    @Coug-With-TeamB

    It's a party at DawgNation...feel free to stop by when you've grown tired of the U recruiting board today, we're very hospitable.

    ------

    Hahaha!

    Be honest, you didn't even bother to check the BYU recruiting board today?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Dec. 19, 2018 10:34 a.m.

    CougsnTeamB:

    "It's a party at DawgNation"

    How would YOU know? You live in Utah, and hover around Utah periodicals. There's been no mention of UGa in any of these articles?

    You DO know you're not fooling anyone here, don't you? We know you're not a Georgia fan. You're just a cougar fan who's so embarrassed about being so WACish and midmajory that you're desperately trying to jump onto some other bandwagon -- preferably one that Utah had never beaten. It's an old hat really. We've been seeing this phenomenon regularly, starting with our official invite to the Pac-12, way back in June 2010. But not before.

    Busted indyWACer.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 10:04 a.m.

    Kimmy:
    "He never misses an article about the Utes and weighs in several times on each article."

    Except this is the first Ute article I've commented on in a while...so you just made that up. It is true, however, that I do enjoy ribbing the little "red machine" lol.

    And there's plenty to cheer about in Athens, so don't flatter yourselves with the "big brother" nonsense. Look, I get that U don't have much to look at on this exciting first day of the ESP, but there are big time programs watching their recruiting and plenty going on outside of U fans' myopic bubble. It's a party at DawgNation...feel free to stop by when you've grown tired of the U recruiting board today, we're very hospitable.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 19, 2018 9:39 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 10:06 p.m.
    Mythology:
    "Remind everyone here when which one of BYU's 24 WAC conference championship teams played a #18 SOS? "

    Remind everyone why you've brought BYU into the discussion (again)...I realize it's hard to let them go but this just isn't healthy. However, if U insist on changing the subject, remind everyone how many times Utah won the weak WAC, and how many championships you've won with that shiny SOS (none). BTW, "overrated" Florida, Kentucky, and Mizzou played fairly even SOS to U with nearly identical records to yours...so in essence if they're "overrated", so are U.

    "A BYU fan claiming the South is awful. SAD!"

    Again, what does being a BYU fan have to do with whether the PAC12 South is awful or not? Ad hominem arguments don't change the reality of the South's mediocrity this year.

    --------

    Again, you claimed 2018 Utah won the "worst" South ever. You were proven wrong.

    But why do you care?

    Your Team A, hasn't done squat under BCS and CFP higher standards.

    And your Team B, playes in a weak SEC East.

    2017 SEC East #9
    2018 P12 South #8
    Source: Sagarin

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 19, 2018 9:27 a.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 10:06 p.m.
    Mythology:
    "Remind everyone here when which one of BYU's 24 WAC conference championship teams played a #18 SOS? "

    Remind everyone why you've brought BYU into the discussion (again)...I realize it's hard to let them go but this just isn't healthy.

    -----

    What?

    YOU are the one who brought BYU into this discussion.

    YOU said it was "adorable" that Laxman said Utah owns BYU.

    YOU then jumped on the SEC bandwagon to claim how weak the South is.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 19, 2018 4:48 a.m.

    @Cougsndawgs
    Utes Fan:
    "Also, Utah's O-Line is one of the largest in the nation - even bigger than Alabama's"

    Unfortunately, you are mistaken. Bama avgs 316, while U avg about 308. Lots of programs have bigger lines
    _________

    According to ncaa.com in an article published Nov 8, 2018, Utah is #8 in the nation with weight on the offensive line. That article lists Utah averaging 309.45. Alabama is #14 at 306.7.

    Being in the top ten indeed confirms Utah has one of the largest Olines in the nation.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Dec. 18, 2018 11:02 p.m.

    goaggies1:

    "Why cant Utah get a 4 star quarterback at Utah? Are they doing their homework."

    Are YOU? Take a look at the following 4-star QBs who'd signed with the U...

    1. Tommy Grady, 3rd-ranked pro-style QB, 2005 transfer from Oklahoma
    2. Terrance Cain, 2nd-ranked dual-threat JUCO QB, 2009 transfer from Blinn C.C.
    3. Jack Tuttle, 5th-ranked pro-style QB, 2018 signee from Mission Hills H.S.

    So we got edged by Arizona St for a pair of 4-star QBs in Michael Eubank (2011) and Jayden Daniels (2019), and saw Josh Portis (2005) decommit from Utah upon Urban Meyer's announcement that he'll be leaving Utah for Florida, and taking Dan Mullen with him. It happens. You win some; you lose some. But missing on Portis didn't stop us from beating Alabama in the 2009 Sugar Bowl, and missing Eubank didn't stop us from finishing ranked in 2014 and 2015. We'll be fine. What's more important right now is that we land a solid O.C. and/or QB guru. Had we had one of those back in 2012-15, perhaps Travis Wilson might have been drafted. We've had the talent. We just hadn't had good coaching at the QB spot after Chow left, and before Taylor arrived.

    GO UTES!!!

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 10:06 p.m.

    Mythology:
    "Remind everyone here when which one of BYU's 24 WAC conference championship teams played a #18 SOS? "

    Remind everyone why you've brought BYU into the discussion (again)...I realize it's hard to let them go but this just isn't healthy. However, if U insist on changing the subject, remind everyone how many times Utah won the weak WAC, and how many championships you've won with that shiny SOS (none). BTW, "overrated" Florida, Kentucky, and Mizzou played fairly even SOS to U with nearly identical records to yours...so in essence if they're "overrated", so are U.

    "A BYU fan claiming the South is awful. SAD!"

    Again, what does being a BYU fan have to do with whether the PAC12 South is awful or not? Ad hominem arguments don't change the reality of the South's mediocrity this year.

    "@Cougs-with-TeamB"

    U really need to come up with some new material.

    "Why don't you share with us how great the SEC-East is compared to the PAC-12 North."

    Why? I was criticizing the Pac12 South. The North is usually pretty decent (most years)...why do you resort to strawman arguments? I already know the answer so U need not bother, unless you want to throw another strawman on the fire.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:56 p.m.

    For all the hand-wringers and indyWACers out there criticizing Whittingham’s alleged stranglehold on the Offense…

    …how many of our former OCs starting tearing it up Offensively at their next coaching stop? If it’s the majority of them, then one can conclude Whittingham may have had something to do with their failures at the U. If it’s rarely, then we can conclude that Whittingham had nothing to do with it.

    And for the record, I think Taylor did a great job, and I don’t buy london_josh’s “insider” account of him not being happy in SLC. I think he just wanted to be a head coach where he once was a hometown football hero. Nothing more.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:52 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs:

    “Ute fans think because they won the worst division the Pac12 has produced since going to twelve…”

    Straw man! Ute fans don’t think that. You just made that up. How frantic and emotional of you. Only indyWACers try staking THAT claim. And it’s only because they’re still teeming with envy over how relevant Utah is, vs. how irrelevant the cougars have become since knee-jerking themselves out of the MWC to play WAC football.

  • goaggies1 Clinton/Davis, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:48 p.m.

    I think this article hit the nail on the head. Whitt will steal his good offensive players to put them on defense. I understand he that they can to make his defense the best around and he has done a good job with that. Offense has been their issue for more than a few years. I had this discussion with my son the other day. Why cant Utah get a 4 star quarterback at Utah? Are they doing their homework. There has got be a better QB out there they can get. Maybe the problem is their O-line. Something needs to change or the ticket holders are going to walk. Its the same ole same each year. Something needs to give! Maybe Whitt has taken them as far as he can. Look what Urban did in two years! I think they need a better QB and quit taking O-lineman to play defense. You have a great set up there on the Hill. I hope Whitt can figure it out.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:46 p.m.

    Uteology:

    "But the team down south by beating Utah in a half is building a 'championship' culture. SAD!"

    Not only THAT, but per Holmoe himself, it's the highlight of their season!

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:30 p.m.

    Troy Taylor just gave a lengthy interview in which he made clear that he was very happy at Utah and that Kyle had asked him to stay. The deciding factors were that Sac State offered Troy a seven year guaranteed contract with an incentive based eighth year and he gets to be a head coach in his home town.

  • KimmyP Grantsville, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:19 p.m.

    I love how cougsdawg has nothing to cheer for in provo, so he's turned all of his attention to Big Brother. He never misses an article about the Utes and weighs in several times on each article.
    May as well change the name to coogsndogs, but cheer for the Utes.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 18, 2018 7:36 p.m.

    @Cougs-with-TeamB

    Mythology:
    My bad, I forgot how awful the South was in your inaugural season. Thanks for your reply though because it did remind me how mediocre the South has always been compared to the North.

    ------

    Why don't you share with us how great the SEC-East is compared to the PAC-12 North.

    They had one good year this season, with overrated Kentucky, Florida, and Missouri.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 18, 2018 6:42 p.m.

    Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 5:04 p.m.
    Mythology:
    My bad, I forgot how awful the South was in your inaugural season. Thanks for your reply though because it did remind me how mediocre the South has always been compared to the North. But seriously though, U think 2014 and 2015 were worse years in this division than 2018? Records don't always tell the story as you should know.

    ------

    A BYU fan claiming the South is awful. SAD!

    Remind everyone here when which one of BYU's 24 WAC conference championship teams played a #18 SOS?

    Take your time.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 6:26 p.m.

    Utes Fan:
    "Also, Utah's O-Line is one of the largest in the nation - even bigger than Alabama's, if I am not mistaken. And, given the massive size of the O-Line, it appears to be built for a power run offense."

    Unfortunately, you are mistaken. Bama avgs 316, while U avg about 308. Lots of programs have bigger lines: Georgia is just over 327, Okla is 322, O$U is 313, and Wisconsin is 318. Utah's offensive line definitely got better as the year progressed but they aren't going to over-power most P5 teams. That's why I still think Utah has to open it up a little instead of always relying on the power run game.

  • golfrUte SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 5:30 p.m.

    @ cougsndawgs

    What's gold is Holmoe stating that the highlight of the season was having the lead at halftime against your rival. What's next year's goal: having the lead in the 4th quarter but still losing? Priceless. 8 in a row.

    I'll take Utah's on field performance against a P5 schedule all day long.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 5:04 p.m.

    Mythology:
    My bad, I forgot how awful the South was in your inaugural season. Thanks for your reply though because it did remind me how mediocre the South has always been compared to the North. But seriously though, U think 2014 and 2015 were worse years in this division than 2018? Records don't always tell the story as you should know. That 8-6 USC team came on late and were playing well and looked much better than that record indicated (won 5 of their last 6 games before the CCG). The South was horrible this year...by record and the eye test, it was unwatchable. No disrespect to Utah because they looked much better than the rest of the division before Huntley and Moss went down.

    "All were MUCH better than 1984 WAC."

    So? What's your point, and what does it have to do with my comment?...yeah you got me! Lol

    And you're welcome, I'll keep playing as long as Utah fans keep saying cute things like "big red machine". That's gold!

  • David Riley ,
    Dec. 18, 2018 4:42 p.m.

    We would be in the Rose Bowl this year if our quarterbacks and receivers were more consistant in passing and catching the ball. The coaches made errors also but the biggest factor in not winning Washington or Washington St. were player errors. I thought Troy Taylor did a great job as OC and it will be difficult to keep the momemtum moving ahead with a new system.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 18, 2018 3:11 p.m.

    @Cougsndawgs - West Point , UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 2:57 p.m.
    Laxman:
    "...Jealous the big red machine on the hill."

    Haha! That's adorable.

    Ute fans think because they won the worst division the Pac12 has produced since going to twelve that they're a "machine" now. Pure entertainment!

    --------------

    2018 #20 Utah SOS #18 4-1 vs South and 2-2 vs North.

    Worst PAC-12 South Champions:

    #1 2011 5-4 UCLA (6-7)
    #2 2015 6-3 USC (8-6)
    #3 2014 6-3 UCLA (9-5)

    All were MUCH better than 1984 WAC.

    Thanks for playing.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 2:57 p.m.

    Laxman:
    "...Jealous the big red machine on the hill."

    Haha! That's adorable.

    Ute fans think because they won the worst division the Pac12 has produced since going to twelve that they're a "machine" now. Pure entertainment!

    As for Taylor leaving for a lower paying FCS job, it is a little perplexing. Anyone who believes losing OCs year after year isn't a problem, doesn't know football. As Azute pointed out, Bama and other elite programs can get away with that, but not Utah. Kyle's conservative approach and run first, ball-control mentality won't get Utah any further than they went this year. But without him U may not have as a great a defense...it's a tough spot to be in.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Dec. 18, 2018 2:17 p.m.

    Another OC left Utah? Perish the thought.

  • Laxman taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 2:08 p.m.

    Rock loves writing articles like this! He tees up anything that he thinks is a negative to give
    byu-p fans something to rip the Utes about. Even with all the OC turnovers we have had, we still have a 8 game winning streak against our little brothers to the South. You all are Jealous the big red machine on the hill.

  • Utes Fan Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 1:55 p.m.

    I am perplexed by Kyle's approach to offense.

    Kyle hired Troy Taylor to be the OC - but Troy is a pass-first guy, and Kyle a run-first guy.

    Also, Utah's O-Line is one of the largest in the nation - even bigger than Alabama's, if I am not mistaken. And, given the massive size of the O-Line, it appears to be built for a power run offense. But Kyle wants a spread, run-pass-option offense, that runs the ball often, but not a power-run Big-10 offense, even though he recruited an O-Line for a Big-10 power-run offense.

    So, Kyle wants a RPO offense. Recruited a power-run offensive line, and hired a pass-first offensive coordinator in Troy Taylor.

    And this confusion has been going on for over a decade.

    No wonder he can't get an offense that competes with the best in the Pac-12.

    Now, having said that, I support Kyle, and believe he will figure it out and will still win games, and will compete for the Pac-12 title. But this issue is why he is a good, solid coach, but far below the nation's elite.

  • CO Ute Chandler, AZ
    Dec. 18, 2018 1:21 p.m.

    The amount of mis information on these boards is incredible but not surprising.

    One post says Taylor wanted to be back in Sacramento, our friend Gordo says Whit wanted Taylor out. Maybe both are correct but doubtful.

    Posts that Whit doesn't want an offense, doesn't want to share glory with an OC, Chris Hill wanted him out, and a half dozen other comment are ridiculous. Kyle believe in ball control to keep his defense off the field and rested, he wants to avoid turnovers and will play conservative to that end, and he favors the defense BUT has repeatedly said the team needs to score 30 points a game to win in the conference.

    I have no idea why he can't find an OC that works for more than a couple of years but this will be the third person that has left for a head coaching position. Other have left or been fired because of inability to produce. Maybe this time Kyle can find someone that will run an offense that fits his style. If not, he probably needs to look at the next chapter in his life and let someone else take the program. Can't keep churning through OCs every year and expect to recruit enough talent to win.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    Dec. 18, 2018 12:23 p.m.

    Rlsutefan,

    I'm not conjuring up ideas about the relationship.

    Troy Taylor, who grew up in and coached in my area, made it known to some friends and there was local chatter about that amoung local football fans. I don't mention this as a fan of either school but rather a football fan. A few of my friends have heard this is private conversation as well from me.

    This has been an issue for Whittingham. At a certain point in time you look at the woman who's been married 5 times in 15 years and conclude "perhaps there is something wrong with her relationships".

    It's not a knock against whit or the Utes, I want to see Utah become a truly elite football team. I don't know that he's capable. Bronco Mendenhall had BYU okay but not great, good enough not to fire but just mediocre at the end of the day, then he left and we got kalani and although his trajectory might improve for now it hasn't been stellar (considering that Bronco never had a losing season even after inheriting a mess). Utah could do much worse that whit, but how does the OC stick around next time?

    When I'm commenting on Utah football I'm just a football fan, but I do know that Troy complained locally about whit.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 18, 2018 12:20 p.m.

    @london

    Utah can continue to be the rival of BYU, or try and climb into elite territory, right now Utah is only elite compared to in-state teams.

    ------

    Utah is a Top 25 P5 program.

    No other team in the state comes close.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 18, 2018 12:14 p.m.

    Lester L. Wester - , 00
    Dec. 18, 2018 11:46 a.m.
    3grandslams: "Utah is falling apart under Whitt."

    It continues to be amusing that the BYU-P fans have now become all-knowing about everything concerning the Pac-12.

    ------

    Funny how Utah is falling apart and BYU is so "very close" to Utah according to Holmoe.

    Despite not having an offense, Utah:

    * Ranked AP Top 25 4 of last 5 years

    * While playing #18, #60, #28, #35 SOS

    * Beating #3/#21 USC, #10 UCLA, #10 Stanford, #11 Michigan, #19 Oregon

    But the team down south by beating Utah in a half is building a "championship" culture. SAD!

  • Lester L. Wester , 00
    Dec. 18, 2018 11:46 a.m.

    3grandslams: "Utah is falling apart under Whitt."

    It continues to be amusing that the BYU-P fans have now become all-knowing about everything concerning the Pac-12.

    Utah won the Pac-12 South and ranked in the CFP poll four of the last five years. Most schools would like to "fall" like that.

  • rslutefan Gilbert, AZ
    Dec. 18, 2018 11:32 a.m.

    It's always interesting to see both Ute fan and Cougar fan perceptions. We can conjecture about the relationship between Taylor and Whitt all we want but unless someone has more inside information we don't know for sure. I think Taylor made the wrong move professionally and I'll hold to that - a big pay cut, crappy FBS school, and his path to meaningful HC positions or even coordinator positions in FCS just got harder. But his move could be personal (family related) or no matter where you are if you don't like and get along with your boss then you would likely leave for happiness.

    That aside, the facts point to significant OC turnover. Whitt and Hill own part of that. The inability to give staff longer contracts and raises hurt the Utes. But good coaches also lose lots of coaching staff. They teach and train them and they go on to other things. Look at all the people that worked for or played for Lavell Edwards and the successes they have had in college/pros as coaches. Whitt is a good coach. He is not an offensive genius and preferred an old style of football because that is what Utah was able to recruit. Utah is getting better at recruiting the talent - give em time.

  • london_josh Lincoln, CA
    Dec. 18, 2018 10:43 a.m.

    For those of us in the Sacramento area, Taylor was never really happy at Utah. He wanted to find his way back here.

    The sac state team is an interesting move, but wouldn't you personally want to be a HC rather than an OC?

    It's not like losing an OC at Utah is uncommon. Whit has many strengths as a HC, but in all these seasons with all the rotation on OC that's clearly a fundamental problem for Whittingham.

    It's a football culture.

    At BYU offense reigns Supreme, the year that Mendenhall had the #3 defense wasn't a year that people remember because of the lack of offense - at Utah the crowd goes wild on defensive 3rd downs. It's a different culture and effective for Utah.

    But the offense has always and will probably always sputter under Whittingham. Good enough to beat my team over and over again, good enough to win the PAC S, but it was an odd year for the PAC S.

    Utah can continue to be the rival of BYU, or try and climb into elite territory, right now Utah is only elite compared to in-state teams.

    I don't know what Utah should do. Whittingham is a great coach, but anybody thinking that the new OC is the answer is delusional at this point in time.

  • yankees27 Heber, Utah
    Dec. 18, 2018 9:58 a.m.

    Arizona ute- that's a defensive, apologetic take on where the Utes actually are. Winning the south with a 6-3 conference record will not happen again! Do you honestly believe that Chip Kelly and UCLA won't get extremely better in the next 2 years? USC could have Bobby Boucher as the HC and they'd still get 4 star recruits, Herm Edwards did a fantastic job in his first year at ASU, Oregon just landed the #1 recruit in the nation, that will send a message! Chris Peterson, and Mike Leach are both bigger names and have better recruiting than Whit. I like Whit, but I'm not in love with the guy like some fans, I'm not ok with mediocrity, as a paying fan, I want the product im paying for too be more exciting, up tempo, better offensively, and above all I can't stand the "play not to lose mentality". I'm not calling for Whit to be fired, but if I'm a CEO and my VP was being " just good enough" I'd want more for my shareholders! Most other P5 programs would never allow it, USC has Helton on a very tight leash this year, he knows it. It's win, or be gone, they have a culture of winning, we have a culture of mediocrity!

  • SorryNotSorry Draper, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 9:32 a.m.

    Will be interesting to see the result of the bowl game sans Taylor. If they win, the concerns raised by this article get kicked down the road some more. If they lose, will it indicate trouble brewing?

  • Oh Really? Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 9:26 a.m.

    @David and rfrmac

    No one is pilfering Utah’s OCs and being Kyle Whittingham doesn’t have an OC limb on his coaching tree. Norm Chow didn’t get (and fail at) the HC at Hawaii because of his time at Utah, he for that gig because of his success at three other schools, coaching Heisman winners.

    Whitt has to find a way to change. Next to Chow, Taylor was Whitt’s Best OC and took the Utes to their ceiling. Surely Whitt can see that. Can’t he? Can he?

  • majmajor Layton, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 9:20 a.m.

    In the past, one could blame Chris Hill for stabbing Whit in-the-back. Chris didn't allow any multi-year contracts, and had been trying to dump Whit from the beginning.

    With Chris gone and out of the way, Whit will need to own the issue from now on.

  • ArizonaUte SLC, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 9:09 a.m.

    @yankees27 - Heber, Utah
    Dec. 17, 2018 10:32 p.m.

    Every team in the PAC 12 was previously either in the PAC 10 or another P5 conference. Except Utah. Utah joined from a G5 conf.

    That Utah has been so competitive and has now actually won the South in the short time they have been in the conf. is a sign the program is going the right direction.

    Being ranked in the top 25 in every poll of 4 of the last 5 seasons and being one of only 2 PAC12 teams that can claim that? Also a good sign.

    It's not like Utah has been in the PAC 12 for 40 yrs and only won the South 1 time.

    Most Utah fans have claimed that if Utah were to have the #6 or better offense in the conf. they'd win at least the South. Well. We were #6 offensively in the PAC 12 and won the South.

    We do need a good offense. And it was better under Troy Taylor. Sad he left but not scared about the future.

    It's not time for a new HC. Alabama has had what, 6 OCs in 6 yrs? Nobody says anything because they win NCs. They also have the best talent in the country to work with.

    Whitt is doing a great job. Let's find a good OC and win some more.

  • 3grandslams Eagle Mountain, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 9:02 a.m.

    This move screams somethings wrong at Utah. Leaving for a much lower paying job? A QB leaves for Indiana? Anderson for USU? Recruits can see this, they start choosing ASU instead, they see no stability I’m guessing. But if Whitt leaves, who really wants that job? Utah is not a destination place, so it would need to be hire from within or a gamble on a up and coming coach...Scalley?

    Utah is falling apart under Whitt.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:46 a.m.

    No matter how one chooses to spin Taylor moving on...

    A somewhere near $400K haircut is an amazing piece of information.

    His new position as an HC has a salary that many Americans would envy.

    However, that number pales in comparison to compensation paid to OC's at P5 schools.

    Best wishes to Taylor as he moves on with his life.

  • JoeFM Driggs, ID
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:21 a.m.

    Maybe it's time for a new head coach.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 8:00 a.m.

    Whitt doesn't like offense, that's clear. He prefers great defense and great punters.

    So, why not just punt on the first play of every Utah possession? Then he can play defense all game long, and if he has a great punter, why not use him? His defense can score just as well as Utah's offense can, right? Who needs to play offense in today's world?

    Be bold, Whitt! Just recruit all defensive players! They can line up to punt on the rare times Utah has an offensive possession. And with 50 defense guys, you can rotate them in and out. Wear out the other team's opposing offense, for sure, if they are on the field all the time!

  • rfrmac South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 7:43 a.m.

    I do not find this situation the same as previous years. Every head coach needs coaches that they can work with and are productive. Coach Witt is no different. Assistant coach's want to be head coach's by and large. They want to be their own bosses. I think this is what has happened here. I hope that Coach Witt can find what he is looking for. He'll be much happier and so will I.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 7:36 a.m.

    "BYU players make fantastic Utah coaches."

    spooned:

    That's because they were coached by fantastic Utah grads, Lavell Edwards and Norm Chow.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Dec. 18, 2018 6:18 a.m.

    Would a stable OC, with tenure, be able to recruit better QBs and skilled players on the O side for Utah? Does Kyle fear sharing the spotlight?

    Or would a good OC just be pilfered by another team? Maybe the Ute's aren't a great long term destination...just a spring board to better opportunities?

    Does Kyle look in the mirror and ask himself, "Why can't we keep an OC? Is it me?"

    Or is this a trend nation-wide? If the Utes got an great OC who improved the Utes offense, would they be gone the next year--true for Utah but also true for Utah State, Snow College, etc?

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 18, 2018 12:29 a.m.

    With a solid defense and an average offense, Utah is a top 23 program.

    To take the next step to top 15 or better, Kyle needs to hire an independent OC, not one of his own guys, and then get out of his way.

    I just don't see that happening under Whitt.

  • Spoons lake tahoe, NV
    Dec. 17, 2018 11:38 p.m.

    I would get Ty Detmer BYU players make fantastic Utah coaches.

  • Guam_Bomb BARRIGADA, GU
    Dec. 17, 2018 10:36 p.m.

    Who is going to want to come to Utah to be the OC. It was a step up for Taylor, but knowing Kyle's philosophy, why would an innovative OC come to Utah and stay. The offense was actually fun to watch at times this year. Utah has started recruiting higher caliber QB talent. I hope that the trend continues and they can find someone to continue the upward trend.

  • yankees27 Heber, Utah
    Dec. 17, 2018 10:32 p.m.

    The offense needs help obviously, but I'm a firm believer that Kyle had a tight grip on every OC. He hates turnovers, and isn't much of a risk taker. It sucks because the D can be elite, but by the 4 th quarter they're usually beat up due to being on the field too much.
    Some say keep pounding the Utes will compete, and that's semi true. They will win some games, but without a high octane offense, the reloaded Ducks, Trojans, Huskies, Cougars, etc., will be hard to beat consistently. A shot at the Pac12 title game every 6 years is the definition of mediocre. For some reason, some people accept that.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Dec. 17, 2018 8:37 p.m.

    Nice article Brad. No two ways to cut it, the consistent turnover of OC's makes finding good replacements tough.

  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    Dec. 17, 2018 7:37 p.m.

    They need some receivers who can actually catch the ball

  • 96 U Flower Mound, TX
    Dec. 17, 2018 7:32 p.m.

    Oh no, the sky is falling. Power rushing game with passes sprinkled in has produced consistent success. Woody Hayes did okay with it. Ute football is NOT 1980s BYU football and that is more than fine Brad. Double tight I formation and pound for 4 yards is good stuff ... if you know anything about football. Put in 'human being X' at OC and Utes will compete. Small challenge compared to a certain team defining success by having a half time lead on Utah.

  • Wayne Rout El Paso, TX
    Dec. 17, 2018 5:54 p.m.

    Get one for BYU also. We have none so maybe the UTAH selection has a brother.