Questioning a lot of people's ability to both read and listen the prophet.
Yes, the class assignment changes in January as announced (advancing from
Primary sooner). But Priesthood ordination for the boys, and temple attendance
both girls and boys, is contingent upon both worthiness (no change) and
READINESS. Much like lowering the age for young men to serve missions at 18 and
young women at 19 was similarly based -- but not absolute. Hopefully we
don't find (the problem) where unprepared/unready "children" are
thrust into priesthood advancement and temple attendance, much like there are
children not ready for baptism at 8. Interviews are needed and hopefully
parental expectation doesn't force a hand in rubber stamping.
I love that my church is led by Prophets, Seers, and Revelators. I time we come
to see wisdom beyond anything we currently understand. Let the Restoration
Spoc - Ogden, UT,You cannot make 1st class in a year in am LDS unit
anymore. the BSA changed 1st class to 6 overnight campouts. 11 YO are only
I always thought 11-year-old scout program was stupid. I have been the leader
twice. Kids coming in at all different times makes it very hard to run the
program. Scouting is supposed to be boy led. Who is going to lead? An adult
has to do all the instruction when it should be the older boys. Not allowing
them to go to summer camp is unreasonable. I am glad for the changes, but it is
@John Pack Lambert of Michigan Your assumption below is that
claiming that dating age is not doctrinal means I disregard prophetic counsel:
also false. Follow the counsel for sure, but also realize that everything a
prophet says is not doctrine. We can go back and find lots of prophetic
statements that are not doctrine and have changed over time. Policies,
procedures, and counsel are based on the needs of the people at a given time and
change as needed (i.e. the age at which young men can now receive the
priesthood. [Even the church said it is not doctrinally based]). I have been
attending church for 3 hours for the past 30+ years because a prophet "said
it" but apparently it wasn't doctrine. There is a big difference
between doctrine and the policies of the church. Both should be followed... and
understood."Those who would claim the dating age is not
doctrinal would have us disregard clear counsel of prophets. Something does not
need to be written in scripture to be doctrinal. To say the teachings of the
prophet are not doctrine is a clearly confused position."
What about those with birthdays early in the year? This change is good for
those that are younger because they will get to move up sooner. However, it will be detrimental to those who have an early year birthday, who
see their friends that they have been in the same class with for almost a year
move up, but they are stuck behind with those younger than them. Their friends
at school will now be in a separate group, and they will have inside jokes and
things from mutual that they won't understand because they weren't
there. It will cause pain and suffering for those that have to deal with these
changes. I've already seen it in my daughter, who realized this is going
to happen to her.It will lead some to feel as though they are not being
heard/loved by their Heavenly Father when they pray, Some kids only come because
they get to be with their friends. If they are separated in the classes, they
may stop coming. No one likes feeling like they are being left behind. yes it is
good in some ways, but will also hurt in others. In the end it will all be fine,
but its going to be a hard transition for some, hope they make it through and
don't fall away because of these changes.
@ Spoc "For The Strength of Youth" = NOT doctrine, but policy. No
doctrine on age and dating only recommendations. (see the history of the
church). Some have been married at 14, well before dating age.
Great parents coupled with dedicated leaders produce very fine youth in the
Restored Church of Jesus Christ. We see this throughout the Church. Clearly, no
one is perfect...we all have our flaws. The bar is being raised and so many of
our youth are responding to our Prophet.
When I was a young Mormon I asked the Bishop of my ward this question. How do
you know that the Church is the one and only true Church on the face of the
earth? His answer was, Because Church never changes.
Moving up on birthday one by one has the advantage of breaking the social
hierarchy — the dominant natural social leaders (not to say bullies) in a
given group. Moving whole groups up at the same time keeps the status quo
intact, which isn’t a good thing. Change forces new green growth, and new
leaders emerge. This short-circuits that...
My son turns 12 this month. He missed it but I’m happy for the change. My
son was really good about being in Primary the entire year. But Being in YM
would have been a better fit for home this entire year. I think this is great
for mature 11 year olds.
"temple attendance at age 11" is a bit misleading, isn't it?
Headline writers trying to create clicks!Doing baptisms for the dead
is not really what most people mean by "temple attendance", and it is
not like the Church policy is that "age 11" is some magical age cut-off
point for "temple attendance".
This isn't about some young men getting the priesthood a few months
earlier.This is a sign given by God that the great spirits he said
he would send to the Earth enmass are here.Needed because deceptions
and evil prophesied before the second coming have arrived and will no doubt get
worse. This generation is is savvy enough to withstand. They can endure the
fight and win.
Unintended consequence: All the 10 year olds are mad. "I missed it by one
day, week, month..."
This is great! And long needed. When I was going on 12, I was a child. A 12
year old girl is much older now than we were those many moons ago. Love this!
I grew up during President Kimball, so changes like this are what I kind of see
as normal. I'm glad the church is trying to change and move forward. So far
the changes are really just minor streamlining of programs. I think
if we focus on the gospel then any changes will be easier to accept. The gospel
is about improving yourself, by loving God, keeping His commandments and serving
Hs children. Everything else is just details.
It’s too bad that they didn’t announce this in conference so that
people could do their whole audible gasp routine again
My son turns 12 in March and he was thrilled. Thrilled to know he could move on
from primary sooner, pass the sacrament, and go to the temple. Totally welcome
the change!Also sure that some of it came about because of the
logistics of 2 hour church. As for 11 year old scouts. Dying
program. At this point I think primaries could decide to merge the 11 year olds
with the 12’s and just have one leader focused on advancement. But in the
case of my son, he doesn’t care to advance in scouts anyway. Just goes and
has fun (or doesn’t, depending on the topic)
As for the 11YOSs, while it is true that that patrol will suddenly empty, it is
only this year that will be a challenge since no later than 2020 the primary age
boys will be moving in January instead of their birthdays. Not sure why the Cubs
are the only ones to continue during the coming year to move on their birthday.
We will just have to have the 11 YOS leaders continue to work with them during
the skills development portion of the troop meetings helping them finish their
1st Class work while those already 1st Class work on merit badges.The only ones that seem to get left out of this plan are the 11 YOSs who just
came into the program. My grandson turned 11 in November. The Church already
compressed the Webelos 2 year program into 1 year. And now he will only be part
of the 11 YOS program for 6 weeks. Not going to make 1st Class before January.
Realistically this was bound to happen with 2 hour church. The other option
would have been a primary class that had built in biweekly attendance increasing
throughout the year. If primary had gone to every other Sunday lessons this was
not inevitable, but every Sunday lessons nade these chanfes almost for
certain.Looking back the only surprising thing is this change was
not announced in October.
Those who would claim the dating age is not doctrinal would have us disregard
clear counsel of prophets. Something does not need to be written in scripture to
be doctrinal. To say the teachings of the prophet are not doctrine is a clearly
confused position.The problem with implementing by school year is
the Church transitions all classes that transition by age at the start of the
year. Considering that the start of the school year is rarely the cut off for
getting into that grade and the inconsistent ways it is implenented that is not
a viable system. All the more so because in some states there are complex
systems that make it so the cutoff effectively varies from July to November.
@ Dave BarringtonThe official answer about dating from the church
announcement Q&A page:9. Can youth who are not yet 12 attend camps?
Can youth who are not yet 14 attend dances and youth conferences?Yes. Generally, youth in a class or quorum may enjoy the privileges that are
appropriate for that class or quorum. With their parents’ approval,
Beehives and deacons may attend camps before their 12th birthdays. Likewise, Mia
Maids and teachers may attend dances and youth conferences before their 14th
birthdays. However, a young woman or young man should be at least age 16 before
beginning to date (see For the Strength of Youth , 4).
I am very excited about these changes. They will still leave some of us with
late year birthdays in situations of being cut off from past associates for our
senior year, but that is inevitable and ends the gaving to feel we missed a
camp. It is most good for those youth who have late summer or fall birthdays and
end up youngsters in their grade. It also means that no longer will the exact
scheduling time of camps and youth conferences make or break some being able to
attend. Also first dances and stake youth activities will be easier to identify.
The whole process to me seems a major step forward.
My daughter's birthday is on 27th December. This means she would be
advanced to youth just five days after she turned 11.South Africa
The idea is great; however, it should be implemented by when schools start in
each country. Two friends who have birthdays on 12/31 and 1/1 will be split up
when one advances and another doesn't, even if they are in the same
grade.(This problem has already existed for decades, and has always
had easy solutions, but now it becomes more difficult to fix when the older of
the two is ordained a year earlier.)
Keep the Smart. Simple. Changes. Coming! 😃🙏
For those wondering about the dating age you need to remember that is NOT a
doctrinal issue. You can date when ever you want, it is simply a recommendation.
Please review church history for "age and dating" information.
I’m not LDS and I must admit I have doubts that children this age
understand the responsibility of the priesthood as it is referenced in the
Since they lowered the age for missionaries to 18, maybe there is a need to have
11 yr olds grow into the gospel earlier. This might help them prepare better
prior to mission calls.
I’m excited that my girls can get limited temple recommends several months
before their 12th birthday! It’ll be a great opportunity for spiritual
growth as they meet regularly with priesthood leaders.
Not a bad idea but announcing this back in October (or sooner) rather than right
before Christmas at the end of the year would have been really helpful to those
implementing these changes.
This appears to decimate 11-year old scouting. Since Cubs and
11-year-old Scouting will continue to operate by birthdays while normal scout
patrols will take all those going to Deacons quorum, 11-year-old scout patrols
will be entirely empty the first week of January and fill up as kids turn 11
throughout the year. You'll have either an excess of adults sitting around
with no Scouts in the first quarter, overstuffed patrols with inadequate
leadership in the last quarter, or both.Kids will have much less
than a year of 11-year-old scouting unless their birthdays are in January. They
won't have time to fill the requirements normally expected for 11-year-old
Scout advancement. Those with December birthdays may likely just blow off the
11-year-old scouts program.It seems strange to do this to
11-year-old scouts when the end of the program is a year away. Because of that
2020 ending, leaders are already dealing with low turnout and with boys who do
come but have little motivation to pursue Scouting's aims and therefore are
rowdier than ever. Being a scoutmaster of an 11-year-old patrol has
always been a difficult calling and now it really seems to put leaders in a
To "Texas Gal " the dances rule of being 14 may change. However, I doubt
the dating age will change. Just look at the For the Strength of Youth.
I think it's really funny that people poke at the church for changing so
much when in reality, operational change has been the exception and not the norm
for many years (heck, the standard hymn book is dated 1985). Why
can't a growing organization change to meet the needs of its members?I am excited to see how these changes will position the church for years
to come.Line upon line ...
I wonder if this means young women will transition into Relief Society in
January of the year they turn 18 or if they will remain with the Laurels until
their 18th birthday.
I just think of all the YW Presidents, Scoutmasters and Bishops who took a firm
stand (and a bunch of grief) when they had to tell families their kid
couldn't go to camp or were held back when their friends moved on.Who knew we didn't have to be so mean.
@ AlExplorer wrote "I would love to see more adaptation to matching school
year/grades to keep the same youth together, instead of splitting grades for
some kids."The church USED to do this (until early 1980s). The
problem is that the church is world-wide and different places start school at
different time of the year. As I recall, the church had "transition"
from "one year" to the next 6 or 7 times when it was based on the
starting time of school. It was a logistical nightmare. That is why world-wide
everyone changes on 1 Jan.
I think it would be great if all of the changes made over the past 2 years could
be condensed into one file and place in an easy to get to location on the Church
website. Some slower people like me can't keep track with all
of the changes! 😀
If children hate going to Primary at 11 1/2 because it’s for babies, there
may be some other issues lurking about. I understand when you are a foot taller
than the rest of the kids, you stand out a little. But the Gospel is much
bigger than “I don’t feel comfortable with the younger
children.” Maybe it would be a good teaching moment. How about those
little ones looking up to your good example? That aside, I like the change, and
I am sure the youth will, too.
Some things can be classified as revelation while others are just common sense.
The constant changing of Mormonism.
In some cultures age advances at the new year instead of the birthday. I became
an adult (age 20) in Japan six months early while serving as a missionary. This
is good for all the young people of the Church worldwide. It may also simplify
things for the youth program that is coming out to replace Scouting. I have
been teaching the 11-year old Primary class and I can see that this is a good
thing as friends move on together.
So I was right.....the Deacons passing the sacrament do look younger every
year!I would love to see more adaptation to matching school year/grades to
keep the same youth together, instead of splitting grades for some kids.
This change is consistent with Noah receiving his ordination to the priesthood
at 10 years of age. The age of ordination is not fixed.
This does make a difference - some of which has been mentioned in comments
already. This is not a change for change sake but certainly reflects an
understanding of the difficulties that have been happening with our youth and I
wholeheartedly support it. My only concern is lots of ordinations in January of
deacons, and the cultural pressure to do so, rather than ordaining boys when
they are personally understanding and prepared for the priesthood. Same with
They are doing this because of classroom logistics due to the new 2 hour
schedule that would cause issues for classes where some are still in primary and
some are not.
An end to the awkwardness of who goes where when they turn 12. This makes good
Does that mean they can go to dances in Jan of that year when they turn 14 &
can start dating in Jan of that year when they turn 16?!?! May be some very
happy youth. ; )
Since there is not a scriptural mandate here, perhaps we could improve in other
areas where there are not scriptural mandates . . . . . . such as mandated
6-month worthiness interviews with minors.
@chhs2The change helps with the transition from Primary to YM/YW.
We were talking about this at our last Stake Council meeting how things would
work given the new 2 hour schedule. i.e., when a youth turns 12, do they stay
in Primary class or go to Sunday School? This answers that question.
Yes!!!!! Thank you for listening to the pleas of the 11 1/2 year olds who feel
that primary is for babies! I am so happy about this! I no longer have to fight
with my preteens about going to church because they don’t want to go to
primary! No longer will a preteen have to begin to “hate church”
because they don’t get to go to camp with thier friends!
I don't think anything is wrong with the change, but it still feels like
change for change sake. I don't see why this change makes a difference.
I love this! My kids are all "late" birthdays... they have had to wait
8-10 months to be back with their friends as they waited to turn 12, 14, and
16... they will be really excited about this! My son will now become a Teacher
on January 1st... almost a year before we expected that!This along
with the new course of study make me truly excited for our children and family
in these next few years!
The fact that continued revelation continues to come down from Heaven above is
such a blessing to all who believe and even those that don’t believe. I think this is a wonderful change in policy and again has nothing to do
with change of doctrine. The Priesthood is the same and it is now available to
the young men in the twelve year rather than on their birthday . Love that the Gospel is continuing to be restored and that God’s love
continues to be manifest through His chosen Prophet and leaders.
The changes keep coming. This is a good common sense improvement for kids
progressing through classes and priesthood.
Wow, I think that means I will have 5 kids in Young Mens and Young Womens in two
Really neat move. It will build continuity in quorums/classes and make primary
streamlined. I don't see any negatives.