In our opinion: Brexit process is a warning sign for the Trump administration

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  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 17, 2018 9:18 a.m.

    unrepentant 11:20
    I'm still waiting for you to tell us what bill had partial funding for the wall in it.

    Did you just make that up, or Assume it? Or was it a real bill.

    You said, "Trump has repeatedly been offered parital funding for his wall by the leaders of both parties"...

    In what bill? I want to look it up.

    I heard Chuck Schumer on TV this morning saying "We are not funding the wall in any way shape or form"...

    That doesn't sound conciliatory, or a willingness to compromise. In fact.. it sounds like the exact opposite of those.

    But Trump's the one who won't compromise... right?

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 14, 2018 11:28 a.m.

    unrepentant 11:20
    RE: The recent squabble between Trump and Opposition Party Leaders in the Oval office... "Who started a squabble and who lied repeatedly during that interchange? (Trump, as usual)"...
    ---
    The clips I saw on National News didn't show who started it. Or who lied repeatedly. But they were just clips, so you could be right. But they clearly showed Pelosi and Schumer's inability to tolerate Trump's consistent request to fund construction of the security wall on the border. Same wall Congress passed a law to build when Clinton was President. Same wall Congress required be built when Bush was President.

    The border wall isn't new. First sections were built in 30s. Clinton added to it. Bush added to it. But Ds can't tolerate Trump doing the same now. It needs to be drawn out till next election and used as a tool. To get the Hispanic vote.

    ===

    RE: "Trump has repeatedly been offered partial funding for his wall"...
    ---
    What bill was that? I want to google it and read it, and see if you are telling the truth.

    Did it pass?

    If it didn't it's not a real offer. It's just a bargaining chip, a show for the cameras. Not a real offer.

  • Yuge Opportunity Here Mapleton, UT
    Dec. 14, 2018 10:46 a.m.

    If I may read between the lines here, the editor is suggesting that our politicians "go along to get along."

    Regarding immigration, that means de facto amnesty, with decades of "comprehensive reform" rumors that went nowhere.

    Laws on the books that went unenforced in the face of regular immigration violation "hits" in our county jails. Quarterly ICE round-ups in major cities, netting 50 criminal aliens, while 300,000 remained at-large.

    Pre-Obama, worksite raids amounted to enforcement theater. (Those ended in 2009.)

    If you could go back to that system, why would you?

    The EU has seen terrorism imported along with migration. Separate enclaves now have separate laws.

    Is the editor calling for a global end to national identity?

    What are readers supposed to think?

  • What in Tucket Provo, UT
    Dec. 14, 2018 9:34 a.m.

    Those voting for Brexit were tired of a vast unelected bureaucracy in Brussels deciding the laws and regulations. The same as we have here though Mr. Trump has had some success in limiting their activity. We have not even been able to fire a Federal worker for any reason, but that is also changed.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 14, 2018 8:54 a.m.

    RE: "Brexit is a warning sign for the Trump administration"...
    ---
    What warning? That if we don't do what the Socialists want they will revolt and bring violence and mayhem to our streets (like the insurrections in France and UK)?

    What warning? That Trump better do what they want, or else? Or else what?

  • Paul in MD Montgomery Village, MD
    Dec. 14, 2018 8:29 a.m.

    The divisions mentioned in America are not new to the Trump administration's time in office. America has been divided for some time now. There is a congressional lunch room that used to be very busy - regularly frequented by politicians from both sides of the aisle - where they would put aside politics, or at least the most rancorous aspects of it, sit together, develop good relations and discuss issues outside the glare of the spotlight. A great deal of work got done here - people learning how to work together, learning about both sides of the issues, and figuring out how to get the work of the people done.

    Today, that room stands empty most of the time. The voters, who used to understand what Reagan used to say - "it's better to get 80% of what you want than 100% of nothing" - now seem to refuse to accept anything less than 100% of their way. So good people get voted out for trying to reach across the aisle, and not much gets done.

    If something big does get done, its support is one-sided, and once that side loses power the other side works to tear it down (e.g., the ACA). Until voters let politicians work together, we're going to be stuck in this quagmire.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Dec. 14, 2018 6:53 a.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil:

    "Hannity will never let it happen. " Just curious: Why did you leave out Maddow?

    Largely because I have never watched Maddow. I have seen that her ratings are now almost matching Hannity during their shared block.

    At the club I go work out in the evenings they have CNN and FoxNews on TVs next to each other so as I treadmill I watch both. Its a real interesting contrast. CNN is truly obsessed with all things Trump - poking at him daily.

    But the difference between them and Fox and the radio talking heads is the latter are actively campaigning for a person/party. The CNN personalities don't show up at events as participants. They don't appear on stage with candidates. They occasionally saw stupid things, but they don't cross that line into overt activism towards a person. Hannity, Limbaugh et al go there on a regular basis. Hannity/Limbaugh/Culture actively portrayl the other side disparaging and demeaning light.

    On the other hand FoxNews online.... more balanced. Go figure.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Dec. 13, 2018 5:28 p.m.

    According to my British friends and relatives, the current Brexit squabble is more about buyer's remorse than anything.

    Now that the Brits fully come to understand what Brexit means, many regret their votes to exit the European Union. A lot of "I told you so's" from Brexit critics. Those holidays in the South of France and Portugal become all the more onerous to make. And the cheap goods from these and other countries won't be so cheap anymore.

    PM May still has nominal control over her party which holds the Parliamentary majority. However, many members of her party, who supported Brexit, have discovered that their constituencies have changed their mind once the effects become known. Therefore, this and future Parliamentary squabbles will continue unless/until the Brits declare a time-out on Brexit. Time to reflect on all the consequences of an ill-considered vote.

    This is not unlike the changed minds Americans have now over electing Trump to the Presidency. The ramifications of that ill thought-out vote are now readily apparent to anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 3:47 p.m.

    Vermonter - England is no longer a power base for industry. Most of their biggest companies are owned by foreign interest. The banking powerhouse that used to be there is moving to Germany and France. Their currency has been loosing ground to the Euro since the announcement. Other than oil, there is nothing that the UK produces that can't be produced elsewhere cheaper. The UK is in a very perilous position. Their ability to drive the agenda has diminished considerable.

    Their best export right now is music and the Premiere League. The UK's contribution to the overall EU GDP is only about 15%. Canada's GDP to US (1.9 Trillion to 19 Trillion), about 10%. So technically you are right..... but not by very much. Of the top ten corporations in the EU, only one is a British company... (BP plc). The majority are French and German.

    So I will stick with my analogy. It's as if Florida left the Union.... it would be a bummer but we would do just fine.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Dec. 13, 2018 1:55 p.m.

    @SC Matt.
    I’m largely with you on this one. Everybody should have the right to sell their labor to the highest bidder, globally. Like free trade, this is called free labor mobility. Sovereign borders largely get in the way.

    This is why I’m for relatively open borders, with security to keep out criminals and terrorists. I’m also for legalization and even permanent residency for most immigrants, minus citizenship,
    voting rights and the right to hold a an elected or non-elected government job. After all, all that most immigrants want is a better life.

  • SC Matt Saline, MI
    Dec. 13, 2018 1:18 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil:

    "Hannity will never let it happen. "

    Just curious: Why did you leave out Maddow? Do you have some reason to believe that only conservatives are unreasonable, or that only conservatives play to a narrow audience instead of trying to find some sort of middle ground?

    "Can you imaging viewers/listeners tuning in to hear messages of "the other side is right sometimes too"?"

    I don't even see that here all that often, never mind major TV networks.

    Our politicians don't listen to us. They talk at us. Same with TV personalities.

    And this is exactly what happened in 2016. "Toxic political outcome" pretty much describes the election of Trump. And it happened because both parties, for a long time, ignored the needs of rural America.

    They feel threatened by immigration. They're trying to work and support themselves, but they feel left behind because somebody else is willing to do the same job, but do it better and cheaper than they can.

    I count myself among those who didn't listen. I don't *care more* about an American trying to get ahead than I do about somebody born in another country.

    But Trump did. So he won.

  • banliberals Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 1:05 p.m.

    Dear opinion,

    Isn't it great that a newspaper such as yourself has the freedom to express your opinion.

    But please don't let facts get in the way, as you silently ridicule Trump and conservatives on the whole brexit mess and the US decision to abandon the climate conference and globalism!

    GB voted to leave, it has not because of May who is a Hilary Clinton twin!
    GB will leave, so will Italy, and Macron has an 18% approval rating because he is dragging France kicking and screaming into a communist high tax democratic party!

    The world is so much better when small govt thrives, and countries have strong effective borders and economies!

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 1:01 p.m.

    n8ive American;

    Brexit is more like a warning to the republican party. Quit dividing America!

    (see how easy that was?)

  • n8ive american Shelley, Idaho
    Dec. 13, 2018 12:20 p.m.

    Brexit is more like a warning to the democratic party. Quit dividing America!

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Dec. 13, 2018 12:18 p.m.

    To the Editor:
    This article is about 4 years too late. In case you missed it, the majority of Americans today describe our politics as “toxic.”

    @marxist.
    Trump (and his trade and immigration policies) are the answer to “the central issue of our time—the status of hired labor in capitalism.” In case you missed it, Trump won in 2016 by carrying most of the unionized Midwest (i.e. “hired labor”).

    @Utah Blue Devil.
    The Great Britain = Canada analogy crumbles when you realize Great Britain’s economy is a much greater portion of the EU economy than Canada’s is as part of the North American economy. It also crumbles to dust if France, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland, Hungary and Austria or any combination of them decide to leave the EU. All of the above are grumbling to one degree or another about their continued membership in the EU.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 11:47 a.m.

    Great Britain is going to be to the European Union what Canada is to the US. Not necessarily a bad thing. I like Canada. But the British hardliners need to understand their independence will come at a cost, and that will be having a minimized voiced in the region.

    This was a vote of pride over long term economic strength. No one needs what the UK produces.... even their brent crude will diminish in influence over time. But they will still have their Pound and their monarchy.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Dec. 13, 2018 11:20 a.m.

    How can you come to this conclusion: "The recent televised argument among Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Trump documented an inclination by all three leaders toward argumentative redlines over compromise on immigration."?

    Who started a squabble and who lied repeatedly during that interchange? (Trump, as usual)

    Who repeatedly asked for the exchange to be off camera? (Pelosi, trying to protect the image of the office of the Presidency)

    Who talked over the new Speaker of the House dismissively? (Trump, like he always does)

    Who maintained a degree of poise throughout, and acted like an adult? (Pelosi, Schumer)

    The Ultimate Red Line was put out by the President (Shut down the government), not by the Democratic leaders in the Senate and the House. Trump has repeatedly been offered parital funding for his wall by the leaders of both parties. His ego won't allow him to say yes to a compromise.

    I can not believe that any rational person could see it otherwise. IMHO, the nation was shocked to its soul viewing the President's temper tantrum, and marks the beginning to the end of his political future.

  • Gil Bates Mayfield, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 11:16 a.m.

    The Brexit mess is a cautionary tale. EU was intended to create a coalition similar to the United States. But open borders, regulation and extreme left policies made it advantageous for Britain to go it alone.

    The danger for us can be seen in sanctuary states. If some states don't want to enforce immigration law, give illegals drivers licenses and in-state tuition, provide welfare, even allow them to vote...it is not unreasonable to expect backlash from some states.

    This is NOT a matter of a few extremists, as the editorial suggests. Brexit won on 52% of the vote. The turnout was over 72%. (There is no evidence of Russian collusion;).)

    The editor suggests that Londoners chose rightly and that rubes in the countryside didn't know what they were doing. I find that notion offensive.

    This editorial is extreme globalism.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 11:01 a.m.

    "The Brexit process should serve as a warning sign that this kind of governance is both corrosive and unsustainable. The path forward for polarized political contexts is not to double down; it is to soften — listening to the needs of citizens and constituencies before they reach the boiling point of toxic political outcome."

    Soft and consoling words these, but they ignore the central issue of our time - the status of hired labor in capitalism. BREXIT resulted from a British working class stretched beyond the point of endurance.

    Labor in Britain, in the U.S., in the world is desperate. So Deseret News, offer them something.

  • Jacob_Z Brigham City, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 8:46 a.m.

    Second sentence: "Since the referendum was called by nationalists agitating for a succession from the European Union ..."

    Surely you mean "agitating for *secession*."

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 7:05 a.m.

    "The path forward for polarized political contexts is not to double down; it is to soften — listening to the needs of citizens and constituencies before they reach the boiling point of toxic political outcome."

    Will never happen. Not with today's shock-jock politics. Hannity will never let it happen. Limbaugh will never let it happen..... there is way too much money in dividing people than there is pulling people together. Can you imaging viewers/listeners tuning in to hear messages of "the other side is right sometimes too"? The whole genre of media is about slamming someone else.

    Not going to happen until Americans get board by nasty entertainment... entertainment that gives them a sense of superiority over others. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

  • Gretschman Draper, UT
    Dec. 13, 2018 6:41 a.m.

    Yet another example of the citizens making a decision at the ballot box only to be overruled by the losing party’s politicians.