@CommonTaterRE: "As long as there are climate deniers, our air and
water will continue to get worse"...---Actually all the
pollution is not from "climate deniers".If I drove to work
(which I don't) I'll bet ~50% of the people on the road are
non-deniers. And their cars pollute just as much as a denier's car
does.I've been called a "climate denier". Not because
I don't think it's a problem. But because I'm not as radical as
some, or don't think forcing others to live the way I think is moral,
solves the problem.Many people trying to force their morality on
others (by legislating others live according to what they think is moral)
don't do the things they want legislated.Homes with"Clean
air NOW" signs in the yard rarely have solar panels==RE: blaming corporations...You realise most of our air pollution
doesn't come from factories. It comes from the car you drive to work.And bringing Trump into it just makes it political.==RE: "Talk is cheap, which is all our elected officials are willing
to do"...---Talk also seems to be all our activists are willing
to do. Because I see them drive to work, and heating and lighting their homes
with fossil fuels, etc.
@Flipphone -11:16RE: "The current high pressure system causing the
current air pollution"...---People... Stop saying high pressure
causes the air pollution. It doesn't "Cause" the pollution, it
"Traps" the pollution (the pollution we cause).High
Pressure, cold air, and snow on the ground, traps the air in the valley, but it
doesn't cause the pollution. Quit saying the high pressure system causes
air pollution. It doesn't cause pollution, it just doesn't allow it
to dissipate like it would if the air wasn't trapped in the valley by the
temperature inversion.We cause the pollution. The weather just
traps the pollution we create when there's a temperature inversion.It's true the pollution will be gone when the high pressure is
replaced by low pressure. But the weather didn't cause the particulates
trapped. We did.What we need to focus on IMO is... reducing the
amount of particulates we put into the air, especially when there's a
temperature inversion.We can't control the weather. We can
control the particulates we put into the air. By not burning wood, not
@David 10:49 RE: "I once heard a suggestion that the state subsidize
UTA ridership 100%--in other words, riding buses, trains, etc would be
free"...---Then you thought about reality I hope.There's not a mass transit system in the country where you ride for
free.Even in nations where they rely more on mass-transit than we
do... it's not free. Even in Communist countries.The fact
is... Rail systems are expensive to operate. Bus systems are expensive to
operate. If nobody's paying for it... they don't last long.You have to pay for it. Buses and trains aren't free. The fuel
isn't free. The drivers don't volunteer their time (they expect to
be paid). The maintenance of the tracks/roads/vehicles isn't free. IMO
the people who ride it should pay at least a little bit to help offset those
costs.Fairs don't pay for the whole thing. But they help.
Without them, as you pointed out, the tax payers in Heber and St George are
paying for a transit system they can't ride (unless they get in their car
and drive to SLC to ride it).
I agree with all 4 of his points, although I also believe some people use this
situation for political purposes, which is bogus. Our air is not a political
thing, it's a personal thing. It takes each one of us changing our habits
to solve the problem, not a few people in the legislature.We could
change the people in the legislature and we will only have changed 100 people
(there are 3 Million people to change, so 100 is just a drop in the bucket).They are influential people. But they are still just people.You can use the 100 people in the Legislature to force people to live the way
you want them to live, but if you haven't changed their hearts and minds...
the problem is still there. They are just being compelled to live the way you
think is "Moral". But they are only doing it because they are being
forced to do it (That approach rarely works in a free society).===I agree with all 4 of his points. But I agree most with his
last sentence..."My own observation is that personal engagement will
make the greatest difference"
I once heard a suggestion that the state subsidize UTA ridership 100%--in other
words, riding buses, trains, etc would be free. This was proposed by a
Republican county official. I was surprised that such a suggestion would come
from this source, and I recognize the challenge--why would rural and southern
Utah tax payers subsidize Wasatch Front ridership? I recently heard
Ben Shapiro predict that within our lifetime private cars will be virtually
outdated. Everyone will be taking public transportation, Uber, etc. Again, the
source of this prediction surprised me.I think technology can help
reduce pollution. I think we can recognize that we are doing a better job than
past efforts. I think we should recognize the seriousness of the current
problem and do something actionable to help. Don't burn wood stoves when
there's an inversion--be considerate of your neighbors. Consolidate trips
in the car and avoid idling. Take public transportation. Just a few ideas.
It's easy, it's smart, it's being kind to your neighbor, and
it's time to step it up another notch or two. But to say
there's no point, or efforts won't make a difference...?
Once again the doubters, critics, and communists are murmuring amongst
themselves. They say we need to clean up our air, but all they want to do is
limit our freedom. Our freedom to burn wood to heat our houses. To drive to
see our grandchildren. To have successful businesses.Instead of
complaining, they need to support our leaders and help build a better city.
B-Real2 - Saratoga Springs, UT"Did I read a $1.3B surplus? Holy
cow, per household that is a ton of money. Sure wish Utah and the governor and
the legislature would get our tax rate in line with all the other nearby states
(some which are even at 0%). Lower the rate to say 4%. I’m not advocating
we get all our own money back but jeez, $1.3B for a state this small? That
proves our tax rate is too high."Republicans just love taxes,
this "surplus" (over taxation) proves it. And out legislators complain
that Medicare is too expensive. Our roads are some of the worst in the
country.Teachers aren't paid enough and turnover is high because of
that.Republicans wanted to raise gas taxes...for better roads...oh
yeah, and schools, snicker, snicker.More taxes will fix the problem
of too many taxes.
This coming Tuesday the air will clear because the current high pressure system
causing the current air pollution will be replaced by a low pressure system
bringing in a storm.
If air pollution is such a problem, caused by the growth of the population, why
is the State government trying to grow it more by incentivizing businesses to
come in. Oh, that's right. They're trying to grow the economy, to
appear prosperous, until we become like Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc., places
that people are fleeing to come here, all the while killing us off with the air
pollution. Watching government wring their hands over issues they have created
is like running around with fire extinguishers in times of flood.
ConservativeCommonTater - Salt Lake City, UTThere are Historical
pictures of Both the Salt Lake and Utah valleys from a 100 years ago showing
both valleys filled with winter time pollution.
Flipphone - Sandy, UT"The Wasatch front valleys were polluted
150 years ago and they will be polluted in the future, why? because of high
pressure systems."There were 2 million plus people in the
Wasatch front valleys 150 years ago? What kind of cars and buses were around
then? How were the refiners doing 150 years ago? How many roads were there?
What kind of man made chemicals were being spewed into the air back then?Maybe you're right. We should just throw up our hands and do
nothing about air pollution. It's easier and cheaper that way.
The big 3 polluters along the Wasatch front valleys, are #1 cars, #2 homes #3
industries. and want traps the pollution in the valleys? Mother natures High
Locally and nationally we have a problem with leadership.As long as
there are climate deniers, our air and water will continue to get worse. We have
many climate deniers locally who don't want to impose any regulations to
make corporations clean up their act. Profits come first.Nationally, Trump wants to reduce the mileage and pollution standards for
automobiles. Trump wants to bring back "clean coal" which no one has
ever discovered.Talk is cheap, which is all our elected officials
are willing to do.
The Wasatch front valleys were polluted 150 years ago and they will be polluted
in the future, why? because of high pressure systems.
Same problem SLC has had since the native Americans and called the SLC valley
valley of smoke and not many people lived in it then, the blame game won't
change the problem nor will better pollution monitors or higher taxes, it will
always be the same...air pollution period.
Did I read a $1.3B surplus? Holy cow, per household that is a ton of money. Sure
wish Utah and the governor and the legislature would get our tax rate in line
with all the other nearby states (some which are even at 0%). Lower the rate to
say 4%. I’m not advocating we get all our own money back but jeez, $1.3B
for a state this small? That proves our tax rate is too high.
Then how about you stop being complicit and use your paper to do some
investigative reporting into big industrial polluters? Why are sensors, designed
to monitor the refineries, broken or missing for years? Why don't we
require the most stringent pollution controls in the country, instead of the
most lax that laws allow? Surely Chevron and Kennecott, US Mag, etc. can afford
them. How about reporting on Big Polluters campaign "donations" to the
Guv and key Legislators? It's much cheaper to "donate" a few
hundred of thousands of dollars to our politicians, than to buy and install
better pollution controls and processes that will help our air and lives. Use
your position to help save lives.
Obviously, take a look at the 10 leading sources of pollution and figure it out.
The problem is : who is going to bite the bullet ? Somebody will need to cut
back a lot to make an appreciable difference. Or send the pollution problems
elsewhere out of the valleys around here. Maybe that means to draw a limit on
how many new dwelling units can be constructed in Salt Lake, Utah and other
impacted areas. Better commuter service and/or moving businesses out as well.
Better zoning to eliminate sprawl is important. Or local shopping : "mom and
pop" shops where customers can walk to the store; i.e. Micro communities.
Everybody take a sabbath day of sorts where driving is not done. Maybe stores
take turns on closing for such a day once a month.