Just have to read through the comments to see the intolerance that was
ModerateWhen conservatives say "What about bill clinton",
that is not to justify their support for Trump. That is simply pointing out the
hypocracy of those on the left who supported someone far worse than trump when
it comes to abusing women, especially when bill clinton's accuser's
who had evidence got evicerated by none other than Hillary, she wasnt supporting
women back then. It show's the hypocracy of the left they pick and chose a
movement or political ploy only when it suits them and their purposes.
The infamous "fundamental changes" of the previous administration,
moving the country away from conservative moral values is the bigger problem,
the gender confusion and removing the constitutional law of natural marriage has
contributed to the moral confusion of the day.Its no wonder why
faith leaders are struggling to help people reconcile moral right and moral
wrong when you are constantly told you are morally wrong when the value's
you've been taught growing up say otherwise.
@All American"Give me a name of even ONE past president who was
absolutely worthy of respect? "We're not looking for
perfection, we're just looking for basic levels of integrity and dignity.
Eisenhower, Reagan, Bush, Ford. It's not... it's not like it's
hard. It's the norm. Jeb, Kasich, Rubio... it's not like you
didn't have options (and there's more than 3, I just didn't feel
like sorting through the 18ish candidates).
I honestly don't care about what these "religious leaders" have to
say or think about our POTUS, or what some anonymous commenters here have to say
or think about him. I didn't vote for Mr. Trump as "pastor" of the
World, I voted for him to be President of the United States. Do I agree with
all of the stuff he's done in his life? No, nor do I agree with some of the
things I've done earlier in my life. He's human, so am I. If
you're looking for a perfect individual to run this nation, sorry, that
won't happen until the Savior returns. As far as I'm concerned, Mr.
Trump has done most everything I've wanted him to do, and would have done
more if he had some cooperation. If that hurts some of your feelings, get over
Kolob1: See Kevin Hassett's presentation for a rebuttal of this idea that
the economic growth since Trump took office is the the result of Obama's
policies. Obama had 8 years of Socialism to practice with a fawning media and
congress and still couldn't get our great economic engine rolling. Take
away the 22 trillion that has been spent on welfare since 1965 and give to the
the workers in America and all would be rich, but then the Socialists and their
plantation practitioners wouldn't have anything to control and feel sorry
about! Victimhood and entitlement spending is unAmerican and those who support
it should be ashamed.
Silence will not solve the problem. We are a nation of laws, inspiration and
common goals. The divide that Trump publicly relishes, is only stoked when our
citizenry does not stand up for our core rights as Americans, life, liberty and
the pursuit of happiness including all not a few.....
christoph - Brigham City, UT"Economoy is growing more now than from
2009 to 2017" This is an article about religious freedom amd
honesty. Why mess it up with this blatant lie espoused by Trump. The economy
is topping off as a result of what Obama did. Trump is now in the process of
destroying everything with his 1.3 Trillion $$ borrrowing. And his trillion
dollar give away of income from big business that was already doing the best
they ever done, and this was under Obama.
rubbergoose - Bountiful, UT" Latter Day Saints believe the
Constitution is divinely inspired....... I for one have witnessed Divine
Intervention in Trump winning the election, despite his behavior."Herein lies the problem, the self deciet and the moral avarice predominent in
the religious community of America, especially here in Utah.
What if there is a heaven and we get there and find that we have to deal with
the same petty and asinine politics and religion that we suffer here on earth.
Put out a headline like that and you'll expect controversy. The left is now
feeling with the right felt when Obama was in office.
byualumGod bless President Trump! He upholds the Constitution and
doesn't use it like his predecessor did as a doormat!Oh please
give me a brake on that commentTrump thinks he is above the constitution
Compare this president's choices on the Supreme Court with the last, and it
is night and day difference, there is no hiding how they vote, and the Justices
Mr. Obama put on the court, support wedding cake lawsuits, and therefore, every
category of lawsuit; so Mr. Trump is normal, and believes in markets and
religious freedom. And his children adore him. What takes money out of your
pocket more: harsh undisciplined words from a blunt harsh leader, or law
suit nation from a "smart, cool, nice, celebrity, well-liked by main
media" leader? Economy is growing now more than from 2009 to 2017.
High and consistent expectations of our religious and political leaders, in
whatever American or global realm they are leading, is something that the Soul
of America, rightly demands. In both public and private realms, a leader ought
to be striving for integrity - however, imperfectly; and with self-awareness
about the flawed nature of oneself and humankind.
Do what is right, let the consequences follow.
@Herbert Gravy: "Unlikely we can find anyone, Republican or Democrat, with
President Trump's leadership skills and downright effectiveness."Is this one of those conflicted pronouncements of faith or spiritual
mystery?Because here in the secular, earthly realm, that statement
makes absolutely no sense.Trump is a profoundly ineffective and
incompetent leader. Two years ago, some pronouncements of faith
had me quite worried. Devout Trump followers praised him for his incredible
leadership skills and past success. When combined with what appeared to be
Trump's autocratic ambitions, I was afraid he would execute a coherent
nationalist policy framework that would fundamentally and permanently change
America, especially given how the House and Senate were controlled by
Republicans yes-men and -women.Of course that didn't happen.
Sure, Republicans did control Congress, at least for 2 years. And
Trump still promoted his nationalist vision for what has been a pluralistic
America.But Trump is a fundamentally unskilled and ineffective
leader. Of the Executive Branch. The GOP as a political party. And America.
No amount of prayer or meditation will change that.
Trump is similar to those who created our country: he reveres religious freedom
and the Constitution although not at all religious himself. His opponent was
hostile to religion and does not revere our Constitution. Latter Day Saints
believe the Constitution is divinely inspired. It isn't always about
getting along. The US won the Cold War by among other things Reagan denouncing
the Berlin wall and increasing defense spending leading to the dissolution of
the Soviet Union. I for one have witnessed Divine Intervention in Trump winning
the election, despite his behavior.
@one old man - "But shouldn't the person who occupies the office
be WORTHY of respect?" Give me a name of even ONE past president who
was absolutely worthy of respect? "Shouldn't that person be
civil and respectful not only of laws but of other people?"Shouldn't you? Shouldn't I? Obama? Clinton? Maxine Waters? Why
aren't all of us? Must Trump be perfect to suit you?"Aren't trump's constant insults and disparaging remarks perfect
examples of pouting when things don't go his way?"No,
they're examples of getting even - doesn't make it right though."Don't his sexual escapades, continual lies, fraudulent
business practices, and so much else represent perfect examples of a complete
lack of moral compass?"Since you have no proof of fraudulent business
practices, and I don't hear him lying, I'll discount those. The rest -
yes, immoral. But I like my taxes lowered, business regs. eliminated, the border
protected, our Pres. not bowing before foreign govts and getting tough on NK,
Iran, & China. And SO much more. We needed a "get-er-done"
President. We got one.
I guess values are malleable
A sincere suggestion ... if Churches would go back to teaching religious
principles, the Gospel and its tenants, rather than serving as social justice
leaders, hearts would be softened.
@ Hutterite: "...and a litany of old fox yelling points from keep your
doctor to the fake media to that old classic, Benghazi.""Keep your
doctor" was not an old fox yelling point. It was an Obama yelling point, and
either it was a lie or just incompetence. Even now Obama (who was friends with
the antiSemite Farrakhan and the bomber Ayres--yet it is Trump who is accused of
"hate") complains about how people aren't "covered" by
insurance, even though under Obamacare those who were "covered" had such
high deductibles their insurance was worthless. Regarding Benghazi, it is a fact
that the State Dept. did not protect our people, and worse, the admin blamed it
on a "video" to cover up their incompetence. This was a pure lie. Then,
Hillary actually told the families of the Benghazi victims, right to their
faces, that "we're going to get the guy that made the video,"
knowing full well it was a lie. But the left and their media allies have simply
ignored all of this, and claimed they are just "old talking points" from
the right, rather than the truth. Trump most certainly isn't perfect, and I
wanted Cruz instead, but to me Trump was the least bad of my choices.
"I'm pushing 40 years in ministry and I've never experienced such
inner conflict and turmoil," the Rev. Klemz said."After
asking for support for church leaders, Lisa Mensinger, the director of youth
ministries, called for God to guide congregation members on Election
Day.""Let's pray for this nation's election. Help
us to elect trustworthy leaders who will work for the common good of all
people," she said."In addition to some political issues
feeling too hot to handle, pastors struggle with rising partisanship, which
interferes with lessons on religious values. People who will stick with their
political party no matter what are less concerned about lying, adultery and
other immoral acts, according to recent research.""If they
condemn political leaders who are caught in a lie or accused of sexual
harassment, they risk ostracizing congregation members who would still vote for
them."From these quotes, it sounds like there has been a switch
from God to Trump and the GOP.To me, that is not an unexpected
A Christian Church is not place to promote political idiotically division. I
doubt that Jesus would have.
I understand the feelings of conflict, but simply look at the Bible: God has
frequently used very flawed leaders to advance His plan. Now we have a flawed
leader, burt he clearly supports religious freedom and speech and traditional
values against the amoral, athiest, and socialist policies and beliefs of his
opponents. Look at the policies, not the man. We are all flawed sinners.
So was Trump elected to be our god? I think not. He was elected to do a job, and
one for which there is no religious litmus test. With regard to his style,
someone wiser than I am observed that Trump did not create the political
division in this country; rather, the political division created Trump. I tend
to agree with that sentiment - when genuine Boy Scout candidates were portrayed
as evil by their political rivals and the press, it became inevitable that
someone like Trump would be put forward as a candidate. I appreciate what
he’s done to restore the economy and get North Korea talking with us. His
style can be abrasive, but he seems able to get the job done. Perhaps the latter
is really why some dislike him so much.
Neo-Chrisitians excuse their support of Donald Trump with the phrase "What
about Bill Clinton". When faced with an accounting of their sins
at the pearly gates, these Neo-Christians think that "What about Bill
Clinton" will wash away their sins and allow them to pass. They will be
unpleasantly surprised that another's sins do not free you of yours.
@rhodgerDonald Trump is hardly being given a pass. Media outlets
incessantly publicize his "missteps".And the clergy? What
did they do regarding former Presidents?Some have been mentioned by
others on this thread. I think they left out Lyndon Johnson and Ronald
Reagan.Yes, Ronald Reagan. Most, if not all, of his
"shenanigans" took place in Hollywood long before he became President,
but are well documented. Did the clergy ever question his worthiness to serve?
Did the press constantly publish stories ih his "conquests"?Don't think so.🤔
Interesting that politics and religion are together again in this article when
we are told that the two shouldn't have anything to do with one
another...but thank goodness Trump is president.
Sion - Knoxville, TNNov. 11, 2018 5:36 a.m.I am dismayed at the lack
of respect for the Office of the President of the United States. We were taught
respect in our youth but now things have changed. We aren’t taught
civility and respect for the laws of the land. When that fails, you get more of
what we have- mob rule when things don’t go your way. It’s not the
fault of the POTUS, it’s a lack of individual moral compass and
selfishness. Sounds like BOM stories that my teacher tells to me.==But shouldn't the person who occupies the office be WORTHY of
respect?Shouldn't that person be civil and respectful not only of
laws but of other people? Aren't trump's constant insults and
disparaging remarks perfect examples of pouting when things don't go his
way?Don't his sexual escapades, continual lies, fraudulent business
practices, and so much else represent perfect examples of a complete lack of
moral compass?It sounds to me as if trump is a perfect example of
villains from the BOM that my teachers told to me. King Noah immediately comes
to mind.We are in serious trouble because he has been able to dupe
so many good people. Isn't he a false prophet? Why enable him?
Forgive these "religious leaders" for they know not what they do.They have been poisoned by the biased liberal media which has been
something like 92% negative reporting about President Trump. The same media
which was remarkably uncurious about Obama's long time pastor, Rev. Wright
and his teachings, or Obama's friendship with Minster Farrakhan, or a
convicted terrorist, Bill Ayers.Perhaps Obama was not a sexual
predator as his predecessor and successor are strongly alleged to be, but his
moral failings were overlooked, along with Clinton's, but now the clergy
are united in opposition to Trump?Liberal attacks on all religions
(except one no one dare criticize) have been ongoing for several decades, we are
seeing an alarming decline in the number of people attending church or even
claiming religious affiliation. Perhaps this is due to attacks on the faiths, or
just as likely from the increasing secularization of the clergy and their
involvement in political matters on the liberal side.Trump is no
angel, but those in glass houses are throwing a lot of stones at him.Get back to preaching the 10 Commandment and leave politics to politicians.
In my congregation, I don't ask, don't want to know, and don't
care what party or person you support. Someone going into a congregation
thinking that the person entering has to have a political statement on his shirt
is in the wrong church or congregation. I would say without hesitation that a
person that thinks so has the biggest problem. Churches are for sick people,
whether they recognize they are sick or not. Someone who wants our political
leaders to show us the way is on shaky ground at best. This holds true with
political answers. There are no 'political answers'. So, if a person
storms into church or demands of their religious leaders to give a sermon on gun
control, or climate change, or Health care for all, then what they need is to go
find their nearest political party to find validation. Houses of worship are
for healing the sick. They shouldn't check your political affiliation at
the door. The sermon on the mount is the Mount Everest of spiritual
aspirations. It doesn't come with a sticker at the end to inform you have
passed. It takes lifetime. Someone who puts political parties above Jesus
Christ is lost. Come join us.
One economic sector that must be booming these days is psychiatryI’m amazed daily at the reaction so many have to a duly elected
I think another valuable question would be “how do leaders and people of
faith find solace during times of divide and disruption?” One can observe
that no matter who is in the White House there will be disagreement and despair.
The Christian and Jewish religions’ roles are to encourage adherents to
remain faithful to God, keep the 10 Commandments and serve one another, look
after the poor, be good neighbors, be honest, etc. no matter who rules.The
lying on both sides is intolerable, look at the unproven character assasination
attempts on Brett Cavanaugh. Rather than take to the streets to attack
opponents, we should be on our knees pleading for Gods grace for ourselves and
yes, our enemies. Then we must look around and see who needs help and do what we
can to relieve their suffering. In my darkest hours that has helped me more than
expressing my outrage, although this is legit under our Constitution which was
ordained of God. It also helps to remember He is in charge and all others will
fade into the mists of time eventually. I can say that I am more generous when I
have a job, income and something to share. I am grateful for our improved
I think I am a very conservative and a religious person with too many flaws.
But, I voted for Trump. I knew he was not perfect, but I hoped he would do a
better job than seasoned politicians. When the economy tanked, regardless of my
experience and education, like many others of my age group, I became unemployed.
My age group (40 plus) almost became unemployable. Any hope for employment was
shattered as President Obama declared “those jobs are not coming
back”. And along came Trump with his message of hope, job creation, and
prosperity. Am I better off than I was in 2008 to 2016. You bet I am. I did not
want Trump to be my church leader. I wanted him to lead the country out of the
economic recession. He is doing just that. Meanwhile, someone else is my church
leader. When unemployed, it was hard to feel the spirit when I had
little pride and constantly worried about my next meal. Trump changed all that.
Faith leaders may have conflicts but Trump took mine away.
Who Trump was and who Trump is is easily determined. Faith leaders need to tell
the truth to their flocks. "Do what is right, and let the consequences
follow". The truth is that this issue should be less about self interested
politics and more about morality and decency. We have an amoral indecent man in
the Oval Office. That's a fact. And the sad thing is that his greatest
support continually comes from those of faith. They give him a pass.
President Trump got rid of a lot of burdensome regulations on business, then got
the tax rate lowered on business. Now it is easier for American business to
compete against companies from other countries and even businesses who
don’t compete internationally, They have a healthier business
environment.This is why under President Trump the American economy
is doing so well. Unless someone undoes what president Trump has done, the
American economy will always be stronger than it would have been. This is good
for jobs and investments. Both will do better.
BYUalum - South Jordan, UT, said: "God bless President Trump! He upholds the
Constitution and doesn't use it like his predecessor did as a
doormat!"The doormat is the citizens of this country that trump
has used to enrich himself. BYU, how much money has been spent on golf? BYU,
why did valid reports show that the Trump family has cheated the US Government
out of up to half a billion in unpaid taxes?BYU alum, why do
Constitutional scholars on both sides of the isle say that Trump has zero
respect for our Constitution?We have become the Trump Family's
doormat as he wastes not only our limited resourses, he divides this country in
a way no one ever has. BYU, can you explain to your children about
the way this man flouts the 10 Commandments? Something as simple as those 10
rules? BYU, can you really believe what you say?
I am dismayed at the lack of respect for the Office of the President of the
United States. We were taught respect in our youth but now things have changed.
We aren’t taught civility and respect for the laws of the land. When that
fails, you get more of what we have- mob rule when things don’t go your
way. It’s not the fault of the POTUS, it’s a lack of individual
moral compass and selfishness. Sounds like BOM stories that my teacher tells to
Anyone with half a brain has experienced “inner conflict and
turmoil” since the electoral college appointee took office.
I have been completely dismayed by the abject failure of faith leaders of all
denominations to stand up and loudly condemn trump.Even more
disturbing is the fact that some of them actually support and praise him.I'm sure our Father in Heaven is hanging his head in disgust.
@The MelioristWell, we might be able to find someone morally better.
Unlikely we can find anyone, Republican or Democrat, with President
Trump's leadership skills and downright effectiveness.I think
most of us are willing to listen to reasonable proposals, but doesn't seem
to be anyone "on the horizon" that would be even half as effective as
First, churches have to be careful to not endorse specific candidates lest they
lose their tax exempt status. Churches can, however, advocate for or against
policy matters such as Prop 8, ERA amendment, immigration etc. I
look at one of the most important roles religious institutions and play is to
nurture high moral values, such as honesty, integrity, humility, charity,
kindness, love for others, etc. They are the means, not the end. How are they
doing in that regard? IMHO it doesn't look like they are doing very well
if a large majority of their adherents are endorsing leaders who blatantly and
nearly constant lie, engage in serial infidelity, demonization of minorites and
immigrants from other countries etc. etc. etc. Finally, as McKay
Coppins (and several others) points out in his new book, the extreme divisive
climate we now find ourselves began with Newt Gingrich. Under Trump it has
reached new heights. I've found I often can talk to
conservative neighbors/friends in a way where we can find common ground. Now,
we don't/won't always agree on the remedies to our problems, but it is
RE: Impartial7So, you're not really a "pro-life christian". You
were killing people in Vietnam“You shall not kill” Ex
20:13 The Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated
killing of another person with malice; ”murder. ”e.g. like a baby
. God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations
(1 Sam 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Ex
21:12, 15; 22:19; Lev 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all
circumstances, but only murder. @Ecc:8 “There is
to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a
world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Rom3:10-18), war is inevitable.
Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the
government God has placed in authority over them (Rom 13:1-4)
"Actions speak louder than words. There appears only liberals scream cry
turn cars over protest march terrorize people attherehomes and anywhere they
cross paths with others that have different views. They are encouraged to do so
by democrat leaders. I believe the time is coming that conservatives will react
in similar fashion. I hope not but sleeping giants will awake."Are you kidding me? Really?I can't recall the most recent
incident where there was liberal incited rampant car over turning. But I sure
can recall the last time 25 innocent people lost their lives due to hate.
Lets back off the myopic view of the world - turn the channel on the radio from
the hyper fear monger talking heads and listen to some classic rock, or anything
else.25 people killed in cold blood by domestic terrorist in the
last two weeks..... and we are worried about liberal incited car flipping?
Love the results of the survey..... you can at immorally, but still be an
ethical leader. Did I really read that right? That in 2011 evangelical
whites thought the two were connected, and by 2016, white evangelicals had a
change of heart and that 70 percent thought you could be immoral, but still
ethical.And people wonder why our younger generations call the whole
mess hypocritical. At some point those two things need to come back into
harmony. Its going to be a while though...
To Marxist: NO!!God bless President Trump! He upholds the
Constitution and doesn't use it like his predecessor did as a doormat!
@CMTM - , 00Nov. 10, 2018 9:03 a.m.RE: Karen R.I voted against
Hillary for two big reasons: I’m a pro-life Christian, If you could ask
the baby, do you think he would choose life?And Benghazi, as a Vietnam
Veteran, if we did not have air support I would probably not have
survived."So, you're not really a "pro-life
christian". You were killing people in Vietnam. Most "pro-life
christians" believe in the death penalty. You're only pro life when it
comes to a zygote that's not a life yet. You rationalize killing (not
pro-life) for reasons that you deem worthy.
RE: Marxist. There is so much focus on Trump’s moral flaws, it was
overlooked that everyone, politicians and presidents especially, is flawed. But those flaws haven’t held back past presidents. “George
Washington had a mistress “Thomas Jefferson did, too. Roosevelt had a
mistress with him when he died. Eisenhower. Kennedy.”As Romans
3:23 says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”But Trump’s flaws aside, it’s difficult to imagine
evangelical Christians would prefer a world where the president is of good
character but attacks their values and religious beliefs.@President
Obama for years went to a church whose pastor said stunningly hateful things
about Americans, But he said he didn't hear any of them. But you give him
Donald Trump: Divider In ChiefAs a true conservative I am left
pleading, please, please, please can we find a better candidate for president in
Ute Alumni wrote: "Actions speak louder than words. There
appears only liberals scream cry turn cars over protest march terrorize people
attherehomes and anywhere they cross paths with others that have different
views. They are encouraged to do so by democrat leaders. I believe the time is
coming that conservatives will react in similar fashion. I hope not but sleeping
giants will awake."Please consider expanding your news sources
and opening your mind. I certainly have my biases, but I choose to acknowledge
them rather than feed them with confirmation bias. As difficult as it can be, I
regularly read news from sources that oppose my political leanings just to
ensure I am not living in an echo chamber. The blind hatred developing on the
far right and far left of this country will be our undoing. I don't expect
a rational discussion Ute Alumni, just wanted to let you know your confirmation
bias is showing. “People generally see what they look for,
and hear what they listen for.”— Harper Lee
When did religion become about judging others? The religion I know is about
following Christ's teachings to become a better person. Instead most of
these comments are about judging Trump, Obama, the left, and each other.
Everyone - on both sides - needs to look in the mirror and ask, "What have I
done today to become a better person?" Whatever happened to
"judge not that ye be not judged"? Has it been stricken from all church
@rlynn,In summary, religion sold its soul to politics and now politics is
our religion and money our god. In today’s Washington politics it is not
right or wrong, it is win or lose. A win gains advantage to the corrupt winner
to write history and justify the win as right. It is the old political/religious
process of might is right and survival of the strongest. The political law of
For me the great divide started with Obama. I heard victimization, division,
blaming law enforcement, success shaming, entitlement, etc. As an
employer I became aware that to avoid trouble I might want to consider that
races might not mix well. I heard that genders were to be treated with caution.
President Trump is obnoxious and says things I wouldn't. But he has
a battle to fight for the soul of America that has been neglected for too long
and it is a battle. I am thankful for his strength and resolution. No one
thought the leftists and progressives would walk quietly away.
In "Christian Morals and the Competitive System" Thorstein Veblen
pointed out a stark contradiction in our culture. The foregoing are directly
contradictory, and we can't deal with it. This is why our very religious
people cannot render a judgement on Trump.
RE: Karen R.I voted against Hillary for two big reasons: I’m a pro-life
Christian, If you could ask the baby, do you think he would choose life?And Benghazi, as a Vietnam Veteran, if we did not have air support I
would probably not have survived.
@rlynn "I went to church to worship and learn of God, and the Gospel of
Christ, NOT to be told who I should vote for, or what position I should take on
an political issue."But if Trump and his movement threaten
everything we have come to expect from our political system, and religion says
nothing, that renders religion largely useless in the face of great danger. At
least we should be able to talk about this in our religious communities.
"May I respectfully say that this divide did not begin with Trump. It began
with Obama 10 years ago."This is the most disturbing comment in
this blog today. No, you may not respectfully say this. This horrible
Constitutional divide began with Trump! Period. This poster yet
again deflects with the well worn, and disproven falsehoods that Trump
supporters use to blame everyone else except Trump. An honest person
sees these deflections of blaming Obama. They know that this person can not,
and will not defend that which is becoming indefensible. Classic
deflection. And no this did not begin with Obama. His Presidency was one of
honor, morality and not a single arrest, conviction, or indictment. Not one.
So to this poster, you are wrong. Why? Try and defend Trump for once without
deflection. I'll bet you can not do it.The truly religious will
not support this con man. And the millennials are leaving religions because
they see their hypocrisy.This is the reason that supposed Christians
who support Trump are having such a dilemma. 60% increase in hate crimes since
Trump took office according to the FBI. I know who to blame, and it isn't
Obama or Clinton.
Inner conflict and turmoil?Spending time in the right-wing echo
chamber can compromise anyone's ability to solve inner conflict and
turmoil.Spending time using whataboutism, with regard to trump, to
justify his behavior will compromise anyone's ability to solve inner
conflict and turmoil.The only time I experience inner conflict and
turmoil is when I find myself doing things I know I should not be doing.Solution...Stop doing the things you should not be doing.For example...Teaching the 10 Commandments and then turning
a blind eye to the behavior of the person who spends day after day denying,
deflecting and dissembling.You can't have it both ways.If you try to have it both ways...you end up with inner conflict and
turmoil.You can't serve Heavenly Father and Mammon.
@BYUAlum " I thank God every day that Donald J. Trump is President of the
United States. "In light of the fact Trump is a lying machine
and has few personal morals, I've wondered how guys of your persuasion can
say things like this. I think I know. In your view Trump is right, simply
right, and if he lies or paid of off past sex trysts simply makes no difference
to you. Do I perceive correctly?
This story is discusses the conflict religious leaders feel in the era of trump.
I've already made my feelings known about it. However, BYU Alum has
taken a tangent that somehow includes President Obama (the headline reads
"since trump took office"), and a litany of old fox yelling points from
keep your doctor to the fake media to that old classic, Benghazi. The
piece isn't about those things. It's about the moral conflict
apparently which exists among religious leaders regarding this, the current
president. Trump. The star of the 'Access Hollywood' tape. He of the
third marriage, this time to a model who has not restrained herself exclusively
to 'modesty' clothing. The one who paid the hush money to the porn
star and the playboy bunny. The one who dodged military service and used all
manner of tricks to ensure those he owed were not paid. The insulter of gold
star families and women alike. So, for all the transgressions of
Presidents past, we're in the here and now. Our current President has some
moral compromises worthy of consideration by those who claim moral authority.
I listen for three words. I love you. If or when I hear them, I'll vote. It
doesn't matter what they say, as much as what they don't say.
This phenonmenon is not about faith, it is about authoritarianism, a trait of
all religions and many political systems. By its very definition, authoritarians
have high tolerance of other authorities and tend to flock together. Immorality
of a particular authority has to be extreme before other authorities will start
to withdraw support. The most authoritarian of religions will stick with a
totalitarian leader to the end, religious dogmas counting for nothing. This is
what's happening in America today.
"Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things
that are God's." Mark 12:17.Religion and politics do not mix, and
should be separate. I went to church to worship and learn of God, and the
Gospel of Christ, NOT to be told who I should vote for, or what position I
should take on an political issue. Once my church started to tell me how I
should vote I left. One's religious believes or faith can guide you in your
daily life and on election day. Those religious leaders who feel it is their
duty to commit on the news of the day, are not preaching the Gospel of Christ
and his grace. For salvation comes from God through the grace of Jesus, not what
political party you belong to.
God bless Pres. TrumpWe owe him great deal for even deciding to take the
role of president.
I think this time in our history is proving once again that religion is not a
reliable factor in people sticking to their claimed morals and principles.
It's too malleable; too easily spun to match one's own view or
immediate interests. IMO, if you want to know what a person's god is, then
pay attention to what their source of truth is. Right now, for most Americans,
one of their gods is tribe. If someone in one's tribe said/did it,
it's right or at least justifiable. The other side? Automatically wrong
and possibly evil, too.I hope we can get back to what made us unique
among nations when we were born 242 years ago: belief in reason, process, and
objective truth as determined by the evidence. No worshiping of personalities
or groups. Just fidelity to honesty, integrity, and doing our best to determine
from the evidence what is most likely true, the chips fall where they may.Religion is not a "chips fall where they may" system. It is not
a question looking for answers. It's a conclusion that requires that
reality be shaped to conform to it, lest if fall apart.
The political division was happening long before Trump took office. It started
in 2008 and has been progressively gotten worse as too many people can't
accept the outcome of the 2016 election. But I suppose you can blame Trump if
you like...it seems to be the popular thing to do.
"In 2011, 30 percent of white evangelicals and 63 percent of religious
"nones" said an elected official who behaves immorally in private can
still be an ethical leader. Five years later, that figure had jumped to 72
percent for white evangelicals, while the share of religious "nones" who
held that view (60 percent) was almost the same."Why did white
evangelicals change their minds on what has historically been at the heart of
their social/political/theological opinion(s)? What is the impetus? And to
what end?IMHO, it is possible for an privately immoral person who
has not crossed the boundary of doing harm to others to be an ethical leader.
However this generally involves issues of fidelity in marriage in the minds of
many of us. Yet, it would appear that white evangelicals have torpedo'd
this view of the sanctity of marriage and assume that someone who can't
control their libidinous tendencies might be an otherwise good representative or
leader. Again, what changed? And why?The answer to those questions
will define the future of white evangelism for decades and might be the
metaphorical "cross to bear" for that group of people for generations.
Actions speak louder than words. There appears only liberals scream cry turn
cars over protest march terrorize people attherehomes and anywhere they cross
paths with others that have different views. They are encouraged to do so by
democrat leaders. I believe the time is coming that conservatives will react in
similar fashion. I hope not but sleeping giants will awake.
May I respectfully say that this divide did not begin with Trump. It began with
Obama 10 years ago. He is the one who started the divide in 2009 with the verbal
battle with law enforcement at Cambridge, "The police acted stupidly."
The healthcare battle continued with, "You can keep your doctor, etc.
You'll save $2,500 a year on your healthcare." Lack of accountability
in Benghazi in 2012 further divided this country. The flooding of immigration
without border security inflamed conservatives. Apology tours and tension around
the world, especially North Korea, caused division. And, don't forget the
role of 90% of the media in all of this in biased coverage which divides
Americans every single day!Don't put all this on President
Donald J. Trump. He is still working to clean up the problems in the FBI who
were shielding the left in high offices. I thank God every day that Donald J.
Trump is President of the United States. He is bold and brash. We haven't
had a Republican president like that, and I like someone standing up for us, the
American people for a change!God bless America!
If religious leaders can claim to be ambiguous or conflicted about trump and yet
still claim moral authority they've no right to wonder why 'none'
is the fastest growing religion in America.
As the Rev. Robertson said, "If we can't agree on where we currently
are, how do we figure out together where we need to go?"Many of
us expect faith leaders to render a judgement as to what President Trump and his
movement represent. I believe Trump and his movement are a new American
fascism, and represent the greatest threat to constitutional government we have
ever seen. Yes or no.
People on all sides of the political spectrum need to spend more time talking TO
eachother (not just "at" eachother) and actively listening to eachother
without forming snap judgments. If people honestly look for common ground, they
will probably find it. As one who regards myself as a political conservative
and something of a religious liberal, it is as though I have one foot on one
side of the political spectrum, and the other foot on the opposite side of the
religious spectrum. I have gotten some rather puzzled and quizzical reactions
from people over the years.