Faith leaders describe the 'inner conflict and turmoil' they've experienced since Trump took office

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  • DON'T ASK DETROIT, MI
    Nov. 25, 2018 8:22 a.m.

    Just have to read through the comments to see the intolerance that was mentioned.

  • Sportsfan123 Herriman, UT
    Nov. 15, 2018 10:33 a.m.

    Moderate

    When conservatives say "What about bill clinton", that is not to justify their support for Trump. That is simply pointing out the hypocracy of those on the left who supported someone far worse than trump when it comes to abusing women, especially when bill clinton's accuser's who had evidence got evicerated by none other than Hillary, she wasnt supporting women back then. It show's the hypocracy of the left they pick and chose a movement or political ploy only when it suits them and their purposes.

  • Sportsfan123 Herriman, UT
    Nov. 14, 2018 10:18 a.m.

    The infamous "fundamental changes" of the previous administration, moving the country away from conservative moral values is the bigger problem, the gender confusion and removing the constitutional law of natural marriage has contributed to the moral confusion of the day.

    Its no wonder why faith leaders are struggling to help people reconcile moral right and moral wrong when you are constantly told you are morally wrong when the value's you've been taught growing up say otherwise.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 14, 2018 9:31 a.m.

    @All American
    "Give me a name of even ONE past president who was absolutely worthy of respect? "

    We're not looking for perfection, we're just looking for basic levels of integrity and dignity. Eisenhower, Reagan, Bush, Ford. It's not... it's not like it's hard. It's the norm. Jeb, Kasich, Rubio... it's not like you didn't have options (and there's more than 3, I just didn't feel like sorting through the 18ish candidates).

  • amagnetick AV, CA
    Nov. 13, 2018 7:44 p.m.

    I honestly don't care about what these "religious leaders" have to say or think about our POTUS, or what some anonymous commenters here have to say or think about him. I didn't vote for Mr. Trump as "pastor" of the World, I voted for him to be President of the United States. Do I agree with all of the stuff he's done in his life? No, nor do I agree with some of the things I've done earlier in my life. He's human, so am I. If you're looking for a perfect individual to run this nation, sorry, that won't happen until the Savior returns. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Trump has done most everything I've wanted him to do, and would have done more if he had some cooperation. If that hurts some of your feelings, get over it.

  • Light and Liberty St George, UT
    Nov. 13, 2018 8:49 a.m.

    Kolob1: See Kevin Hassett's presentation for a rebuttal of this idea that the economic growth since Trump took office is the the result of Obama's policies. Obama had 8 years of Socialism to practice with a fawning media and congress and still couldn't get our great economic engine rolling. Take away the 22 trillion that has been spent on welfare since 1965 and give to the the workers in America and all would be rich, but then the Socialists and their plantation practitioners wouldn't have anything to control and feel sorry about! Victimhood and entitlement spending is unAmerican and those who support it should be ashamed.

  • J. Smith Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 13, 2018 5:32 a.m.

    Silence will not solve the problem. We are a nation of laws, inspiration and common goals. The divide that Trump publicly relishes, is only stoked when our citizenry does not stand up for our core rights as Americans, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness including all not a few.....

  • kolob1 Sandy, UT
    Nov. 12, 2018 10:18 a.m.

    christoph - Brigham City, UT
    "Economoy is growing more now than from 2009 to 2017"

    This is an article about religious freedom amd honesty. Why mess it up with this blatant lie espoused by Trump. The economy is topping off as a result of what Obama did. Trump is now in the process of destroying everything with his 1.3 Trillion $$ borrrowing. And his trillion dollar give away of income from big business that was already doing the best they ever done, and this was under Obama.

  • kolob1 Sandy, UT
    Nov. 12, 2018 10:06 a.m.

    rubbergoose - Bountiful, UT
    " Latter Day Saints believe the Constitution is divinely inspired....... I for one have witnessed Divine Intervention in Trump winning the election, despite his behavior."

    Herein lies the problem, the self deciet and the moral avarice predominent in the religious
    community of America, especially here in Utah.

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 12, 2018 8:25 a.m.

    What if there is a heaven and we get there and find that we have to deal with the same petty and asinine politics and religion that we suffer here on earth.

  • ERB Eagle Mountain, UT
    Nov. 12, 2018 5:54 a.m.

    Put out a headline like that and you'll expect controversy. The left is now feeling with the right felt when Obama was in office.

  • Varnka Salt Lake City, utah
    Nov. 11, 2018 10:59 p.m.

    byualum
    God bless President Trump! He upholds the Constitution and doesn't use it like his predecessor did as a doormat!

    Oh please give me a brake on that comment
    Trump thinks he is above the constitution

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 10:34 p.m.

    Compare this president's choices on the Supreme Court with the last, and it is night and day difference, there is no hiding how they vote, and the Justices Mr. Obama put on the court, support wedding cake lawsuits, and therefore, every category of lawsuit; so Mr. Trump is normal, and believes in markets and religious freedom. And his children adore him. What takes money out of your pocket more: harsh undisciplined words from a blunt harsh leader, or law suit nation from a "smart, cool, nice, celebrity, well-liked by main media" leader? Economy is growing now more than from 2009 to 2017.

  • Dr Leslie Whited Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 7:51 p.m.

    High and consistent expectations of our religious and political leaders, in whatever American or global realm they are leading, is something that the Soul of America, rightly demands. In both public and private realms, a leader ought to be striving for integrity - however, imperfectly; and with self-awareness about the flawed nature of oneself and humankind.

  • Ronald Uharriet Menifee, CA
    Nov. 11, 2018 7:23 p.m.

    Do what is right, let the consequences follow.

  • Daedalus, Stephen ARVADA, CO
    Nov. 11, 2018 6:58 p.m.

    @Herbert Gravy: "Unlikely we can find anyone, Republican or Democrat, with President Trump's leadership skills and downright effectiveness."

    Is this one of those conflicted pronouncements of faith or spiritual mystery?

    Because here in the secular, earthly realm, that statement makes absolutely no sense.

    Trump is a profoundly ineffective and incompetent leader.

    Two years ago, some pronouncements of faith had me quite worried. Devout Trump followers praised him for his incredible leadership skills and past success. When combined with what appeared to be Trump's autocratic ambitions, I was afraid he would execute a coherent nationalist policy framework that would fundamentally and permanently change America, especially given how the House and Senate were controlled by Republicans yes-men and -women.

    Of course that didn't happen.

    Sure, Republicans did control Congress, at least for 2 years. And Trump still promoted his nationalist vision for what has been a pluralistic America.

    But Trump is a fundamentally unskilled and ineffective leader. Of the Executive Branch. The GOP as a political party. And America.

    No amount of prayer or meditation will change that.

  • rubbergoose Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 6:05 p.m.

    Trump is similar to those who created our country: he reveres religious freedom and the Constitution although not at all religious himself. His opponent was hostile to religion and does not revere our Constitution. Latter Day Saints believe the Constitution is divinely inspired. It isn't always about getting along. The US won the Cold War by among other things Reagan denouncing the Berlin wall and increasing defense spending leading to the dissolution of the Soviet Union. I for one have witnessed Divine Intervention in Trump winning the election, despite his behavior.

  • All American Herriman, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 4:48 p.m.

    @one old man -
    "But shouldn't the person who occupies the office be WORTHY of respect?"
    Give me a name of even ONE past president who was absolutely worthy of respect?

    "Shouldn't that person be civil and respectful not only of laws but of other people?"
    Shouldn't you? Shouldn't I? Obama? Clinton? Maxine Waters? Why aren't all of us? Must Trump be perfect to suit you?

    "Aren't trump's constant insults and disparaging remarks perfect examples of pouting when things don't go his way?"
    No, they're examples of getting even - doesn't make it right though.

    "Don't his sexual escapades, continual lies, fraudulent business practices, and so much else represent perfect examples of a complete lack of moral compass?"
    Since you have no proof of fraudulent business practices, and I don't hear him lying, I'll discount those. The rest - yes, immoral. But I like my taxes lowered, business regs. eliminated, the border protected, our Pres. not bowing before foreign govts and getting tough on NK, Iran, & China. And SO much more. We needed a "get-er-done" President. We got one.

  • sgallen Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 3:22 p.m.

    I guess values are malleable

  • franc Kirkland, WA
    Nov. 11, 2018 1:27 p.m.

    A sincere suggestion ... if Churches would go back to teaching religious principles, the Gospel and its tenants, rather than serving as social justice leaders, hearts would be softened.

  • SR71 Buena Vista, VA
    Nov. 11, 2018 12:01 p.m.

    @ Hutterite: "...and a litany of old fox yelling points from keep your doctor to the fake media to that old classic, Benghazi."
    "Keep your doctor" was not an old fox yelling point. It was an Obama yelling point, and either it was a lie or just incompetence. Even now Obama (who was friends with the antiSemite Farrakhan and the bomber Ayres--yet it is Trump who is accused of "hate") complains about how people aren't "covered" by insurance, even though under Obamacare those who were "covered" had such high deductibles their insurance was worthless. Regarding Benghazi, it is a fact that the State Dept. did not protect our people, and worse, the admin blamed it on a "video" to cover up their incompetence. This was a pure lie. Then, Hillary actually told the families of the Benghazi victims, right to their faces, that "we're going to get the guy that made the video," knowing full well it was a lie. But the left and their media allies have simply ignored all of this, and claimed they are just "old talking points" from the right, rather than the truth. Trump most certainly isn't perfect, and I wanted Cruz instead, but to me Trump was the least bad of my choices.

  • ConservativeCommonTater Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 11:47 a.m.

    "I'm pushing 40 years in ministry and I've never experienced such inner conflict and turmoil," the Rev. Klemz said.

    "After asking for support for church leaders, Lisa Mensinger, the director of youth ministries, called for God to guide congregation members on Election Day."

    "Let's pray for this nation's election. Help us to elect trustworthy leaders who will work for the common good of all people," she said.

    "In addition to some political issues feeling too hot to handle, pastors struggle with rising partisanship, which interferes with lessons on religious values. People who will stick with their political party no matter what are less concerned about lying, adultery and other immoral acts, according to recent research."

    "If they condemn political leaders who are caught in a lie or accused of sexual harassment, they risk ostracizing congregation members who would still vote for them."

    From these quotes, it sounds like there has been a switch from God to Trump and the GOP.

    To me, that is not an unexpected hypocrisy.

  • Flipphone Sandy, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 10:53 a.m.

    A Christian Church is not place to promote political idiotically division. I doubt that Jesus would have.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 9:57 a.m.

    I understand the feelings of conflict, but simply look at the Bible: God has frequently used very flawed leaders to advance His plan. Now we have a flawed leader, burt he clearly supports religious freedom and speech and traditional values against the amoral, athiest, and socialist policies and beliefs of his opponents. Look at the policies, not the man. We are all flawed sinners.

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 9:31 a.m.

    So was Trump elected to be our god? I think not. He was elected to do a job, and one for which there is no religious litmus test. With regard to his style, someone wiser than I am observed that Trump did not create the political division in this country; rather, the political division created Trump. I tend to agree with that sentiment - when genuine Boy Scout candidates were portrayed as evil by their political rivals and the press, it became inevitable that someone like Trump would be put forward as a candidate. I appreciate what he’s done to restore the economy and get North Korea talking with us. His style can be abrasive, but he seems able to get the job done. Perhaps the latter is really why some dislike him so much.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 9:26 a.m.

    Neo-Chrisitians excuse their support of Donald Trump with the phrase "What about Bill Clinton".

    When faced with an accounting of their sins at the pearly gates, these Neo-Christians think that "What about Bill Clinton" will wash away their sins and allow them to pass. They will be unpleasantly surprised that another's sins do not free you of yours.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    Nov. 11, 2018 9:15 a.m.

    @rhodger

    Donald Trump is hardly being given a pass. Media outlets incessantly publicize his "missteps".

    And the clergy? What did they do regarding former Presidents?

    Some have been mentioned by others on this thread. I think they left out Lyndon Johnson and Ronald Reagan.

    Yes, Ronald Reagan. Most, if not all, of his "shenanigans" took place in Hollywood long before he became President, but are well documented. Did the clergy ever question his worthiness to serve? Did the press constantly publish stories ih his "conquests"?

    Don't think so.

    🤔

  • zgomer Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 9:10 a.m.

    Interesting that politics and religion are together again in this article when we are told that the two shouldn't have anything to do with one another...but thank goodness Trump is president.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 9:01 a.m.

    Sion - Knoxville, TN
    Nov. 11, 2018 5:36 a.m.
    I am dismayed at the lack of respect for the Office of the President of the United States. We were taught respect in our youth but now things have changed. We aren’t taught civility and respect for the laws of the land. When that fails, you get more of what we have- mob rule when things don’t go your way. It’s not the fault of the POTUS, it’s a lack of individual moral compass and selfishness. Sounds like BOM stories that my teacher tells to me.

    ==
    But shouldn't the person who occupies the office be WORTHY of respect?
    Shouldn't that person be civil and respectful not only of laws but of other people?
    Aren't trump's constant insults and disparaging remarks perfect examples of pouting when things don't go his way?
    Don't his sexual escapades, continual lies, fraudulent business practices, and so much else represent perfect examples of a complete lack of moral compass?

    It sounds to me as if trump is a perfect example of villains from the BOM that my teachers told to me. King Noah immediately comes to mind.

    We are in serious trouble because he has been able to dupe so many good people. Isn't he a false prophet? Why enable him?

  • DN Subscriber Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 8:42 a.m.

    Forgive these "religious leaders" for they know not what they do.

    They have been poisoned by the biased liberal media which has been something like 92% negative reporting about President Trump. The same media which was remarkably uncurious about Obama's long time pastor, Rev. Wright and his teachings, or Obama's friendship with Minster Farrakhan, or a convicted terrorist, Bill Ayers.

    Perhaps Obama was not a sexual predator as his predecessor and successor are strongly alleged to be, but his moral failings were overlooked, along with Clinton's, but now the clergy are united in opposition to Trump?

    Liberal attacks on all religions (except one no one dare criticize) have been ongoing for several decades, we are seeing an alarming decline in the number of people attending church or even claiming religious affiliation. Perhaps this is due to attacks on the faiths, or just as likely from the increasing secularization of the clergy and their involvement in political matters on the liberal side.

    Trump is no angel, but those in glass houses are throwing a lot of stones at him.

    Get back to preaching the 10 Commandment and leave politics to politicians.

  • Light and Liberty St George, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 8:33 a.m.

    In my congregation, I don't ask, don't want to know, and don't care what party or person you support. Someone going into a congregation thinking that the person entering has to have a political statement on his shirt is in the wrong church or congregation. I would say without hesitation that a person that thinks so has the biggest problem. Churches are for sick people, whether they recognize they are sick or not. Someone who wants our political leaders to show us the way is on shaky ground at best. This holds true with political answers. There are no 'political answers'. So, if a person storms into church or demands of their religious leaders to give a sermon on gun control, or climate change, or Health care for all, then what they need is to go find their nearest political party to find validation. Houses of worship are for healing the sick. They shouldn't check your political affiliation at the door. The sermon on the mount is the Mount Everest of spiritual aspirations. It doesn't come with a sticker at the end to inform you have passed. It takes lifetime. Someone who puts political parties above Jesus Christ is lost. Come join us.

  • strom thurmond taylorsville, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 8:29 a.m.

    One economic sector that must be booming these days is psychiatry

    I’m amazed daily at the reaction so many have to a duly elected president.

  • PLM Kaysville, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 8:27 a.m.

    I think another valuable question would be “how do leaders and people of faith find solace during times of divide and disruption?” One can observe that no matter who is in the White House there will be disagreement and despair. The Christian and Jewish religions’ roles are to encourage adherents to remain faithful to God, keep the 10 Commandments and serve one another, look after the poor, be good neighbors, be honest, etc. no matter who rules.
    The lying on both sides is intolerable, look at the unproven character assasination attempts on Brett Cavanaugh. Rather than take to the streets to attack opponents, we should be on our knees pleading for Gods grace for ourselves and yes, our enemies. Then we must look around and see who needs help and do what we can to relieve their suffering. In my darkest hours that has helped me more than expressing my outrage, although this is legit under our Constitution which was ordained of God. It also helps to remember He is in charge and all others will fade into the mists of time eventually. I can say that I am more generous when I have a job, income and something to share. I am grateful for our improved economy.

  • dski HERRIMAN, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 8:04 a.m.

    I think I am a very conservative and a religious person with too many flaws. But, I voted for Trump. I knew he was not perfect, but I hoped he would do a better job than seasoned politicians. When the economy tanked, regardless of my experience and education, like many others of my age group, I became unemployed. My age group (40 plus) almost became unemployable. Any hope for employment was shattered as President Obama declared “those jobs are not coming back”. And along came Trump with his message of hope, job creation, and prosperity. Am I better off than I was in 2008 to 2016. You bet I am. I did not want Trump to be my church leader. I wanted him to lead the country out of the economic recession. He is doing just that. Meanwhile, someone else is my church leader.

    When unemployed, it was hard to feel the spirit when I had little pride and constantly worried about my next meal. Trump changed all that. Faith leaders may have conflicts but Trump took mine away.

  • rhodger Cedar City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 7:35 a.m.

    Who Trump was and who Trump is is easily determined. Faith leaders need to tell the truth to their flocks. "Do what is right, and let the consequences follow". The truth is that this issue should be less about self interested politics and more about morality and decency. We have an amoral indecent man in the Oval Office. That's a fact. And the sad thing is that his greatest support continually comes from those of faith. They give him a pass.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 7:25 a.m.

    President Trump got rid of a lot of burdensome regulations on business, then got the tax rate lowered on business. Now it is easier for American business to compete against companies from other countries and even businesses who don’t compete internationally, They have a healthier business environment.

    This is why under President Trump the American economy is doing so well. Unless someone undoes what president Trump has done, the American economy will always be stronger than it would have been. This is good for jobs and investments. Both will do better.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2018 7:20 a.m.

    BYUalum - South Jordan, UT, said: "God bless President Trump! He upholds the Constitution and doesn't use it like his predecessor did as a doormat!"

    The doormat is the citizens of this country that trump has used to enrich himself. BYU, how much money has been spent on golf? BYU, why did valid reports show that the Trump family has cheated the US Government out of up to half a billion in unpaid taxes?

    BYU alum, why do Constitutional scholars on both sides of the isle say that Trump has zero respect for our Constitution?

    We have become the Trump Family's doormat as he wastes not only our limited resourses, he divides this country in a way no one ever has.

    BYU, can you explain to your children about the way this man flouts the 10 Commandments? Something as simple as those 10 rules?

    BYU, can you really believe what you say?

  • Sion Knoxville, TN
    Nov. 11, 2018 5:36 a.m.

    I am dismayed at the lack of respect for the Office of the President of the United States. We were taught respect in our youth but now things have changed. We aren’t taught civility and respect for the laws of the land. When that fails, you get more of what we have- mob rule when things don’t go your way. It’s not the fault of the POTUS, it’s a lack of individual moral compass and selfishness. Sounds like BOM stories that my teacher tells to me.

  • Shuzzie53 Hayward, CA
    Nov. 11, 2018 12:10 a.m.

    Anyone with half a brain has experienced “inner conflict and turmoil” since the electoral college appointee took office.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 10:33 p.m.

    I have been completely dismayed by the abject failure of faith leaders of all denominations to stand up and loudly condemn trump.

    Even more disturbing is the fact that some of them actually support and praise him.

    I'm sure our Father in Heaven is hanging his head in disgust.

  • Herbert Gravy Salinas, CA
    Nov. 10, 2018 9:42 p.m.

    @The Meliorist

    Well, we might be able to find someone morally better. Unlikely we can find anyone, Republican or Democrat, with President Trump's leadership skills and downright effectiveness.

    I think most of us are willing to listen to reasonable proposals, but doesn't seem to be anyone "on the horizon" that would be even half as effective as President Trump.

  • 1aggie Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 7:47 p.m.

    First, churches have to be careful to not endorse specific candidates lest they lose their tax exempt status. Churches can, however, advocate for or against policy matters such as Prop 8, ERA amendment, immigration etc.

    I look at one of the most important roles religious institutions and play is to nurture high moral values, such as honesty, integrity, humility, charity, kindness, love for others, etc. They are the means, not the end. How are they doing in that regard? IMHO it doesn't look like they are doing very well if a large majority of their adherents are endorsing leaders who blatantly and nearly constant lie, engage in serial infidelity, demonization of minorites and immigrants from other countries etc. etc. etc.

    Finally, as McKay Coppins (and several others) points out in his new book, the extreme divisive climate we now find ourselves began with Newt Gingrich. Under Trump it has reached new heights.

    I've found I often can talk to conservative neighbors/friends in a way where we can find common ground. Now, we don't/won't always agree on the remedies to our problems, but it is a start.

  • CMTM , 00
    Nov. 10, 2018 2:32 p.m.

    RE: Impartial7So, you're not really a "pro-life christian". You were killing people in Vietnam

    “You shall not kill” Ex 20:13 The Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; ”murder. ”e.g. like a baby .

    God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Sam 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Ex 21:12, 15; 22:19; Lev 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder.

    @Ecc:8 “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Rom3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Rom 13:1-4)

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 1:30 p.m.

    "Actions speak louder than words. There appears only liberals scream cry turn cars over protest march terrorize people attherehomes and anywhere they cross paths with others that have different views. They are encouraged to do so by democrat leaders. I believe the time is coming that conservatives will react in similar fashion. I hope not but sleeping giants will awake."

    Are you kidding me? Really?

    I can't recall the most recent incident where there was liberal incited rampant car over turning. But I sure can recall the last time 25 innocent people lost their lives due to hate. Lets back off the myopic view of the world - turn the channel on the radio from the hyper fear monger talking heads and listen to some classic rock, or anything else.

    25 people killed in cold blood by domestic terrorist in the last two weeks..... and we are worried about liberal incited car flipping? Really?

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 1:23 p.m.

    Love the results of the survey..... you can at immorally, but still be an ethical leader. Did I really read that right? That in 2011 evangelical whites thought the two were connected, and by 2016, white evangelicals had a change of heart and that 70 percent thought you could be immoral, but still ethical.

    And people wonder why our younger generations call the whole mess hypocritical. At some point those two things need to come back into harmony. Its going to be a while though...

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 11:39 a.m.

    To Marxist: NO!!

    God bless President Trump! He upholds the Constitution and doesn't use it like his predecessor did as a doormat!

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 11:07 a.m.

    @CMTM - , 00
    Nov. 10, 2018 9:03 a.m.
    RE: Karen R.I voted against Hillary for two big reasons: I’m a pro-life Christian, If you could ask the baby, do you think he would choose life?
    And Benghazi, as a Vietnam Veteran, if we did not have air support I would probably not have survived."

    So, you're not really a "pro-life christian". You were killing people in Vietnam. Most "pro-life christians" believe in the death penalty. You're only pro life when it comes to a zygote that's not a life yet. You rationalize killing (not pro-life) for reasons that you deem worthy.

  • sharrona layton, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 10:52 a.m.

    RE: Marxist. There is so much focus on Trump’s moral flaws, it was overlooked that everyone, politicians and presidents especially, is flawed.
    But those flaws haven’t held back past presidents. “George Washington had a mistress “Thomas Jefferson did, too. Roosevelt had a mistress with him when he died. Eisenhower. Kennedy.”

    As Romans 3:23 says, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”

    But Trump’s flaws aside, it’s difficult to imagine evangelical Christians would prefer a world where the president is of good character but attacks their values and religious beliefs.

    @President Obama for years went to a church whose pastor said stunningly hateful things about Americans, But he said he didn't hear any of them. But you give him a pass?

  • The Meliorist CA, 00
    Nov. 10, 2018 10:41 a.m.

    Donald Trump: Divider In Chief

    As a true conservative I am left pleading, please, please, please can we find a better candidate for president in 2020?

  • I come in peace... Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 10:00 a.m.

    Ute Alumni wrote:

    "Actions speak louder than words. There appears only liberals scream cry turn cars over protest march terrorize people attherehomes and anywhere they cross paths with others that have different views. They are encouraged to do so by democrat leaders. I believe the time is coming that conservatives will react in similar fashion. I hope not but sleeping giants will awake."

    Please consider expanding your news sources and opening your mind. I certainly have my biases, but I choose to acknowledge them rather than feed them with confirmation bias. As difficult as it can be, I regularly read news from sources that oppose my political leanings just to ensure I am not living in an echo chamber. The blind hatred developing on the far right and far left of this country will be our undoing. I don't expect a rational discussion Ute Alumni, just wanted to let you know your confirmation bias is showing.

    “People generally see what they look for, and hear what they listen for.”
    — Harper Lee

  • All American Herriman, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 9:48 a.m.

    When did religion become about judging others? The religion I know is about following Christ's teachings to become a better person. Instead most of these comments are about judging Trump, Obama, the left, and each other. Everyone - on both sides - needs to look in the mirror and ask, "What have I done today to become a better person?"

    Whatever happened to "judge not that ye be not judged"? Has it been stricken from all church teachings?

  • skeptic Phoenix, AZ
    Nov. 10, 2018 9:42 a.m.

    @rlynn,
    In summary, religion sold its soul to politics and now politics is our religion and money our god. In today’s Washington politics it is not right or wrong, it is win or lose. A win gains advantage to the corrupt winner to write history and justify the win as right. It is the old political/religious process of might is right and survival of the strongest. The political law of the jungle.

  • JkeithC Richland, WA
    Nov. 10, 2018 9:35 a.m.

    For me the great divide started with Obama. I heard victimization, division, blaming law enforcement, success shaming, entitlement, etc.
    As an employer I became aware that to avoid trouble I might want to consider that races might not mix well. I heard that genders were to be treated with caution.
    President Trump is obnoxious and says things I wouldn't. But he has a battle to fight for the soul of America that has been neglected for too long and it is a battle. I am thankful for his strength and resolution. No one thought the leftists and progressives would walk quietly away.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 9:17 a.m.

    In "Christian Morals and the Competitive System" Thorstein Veblen pointed out a stark contradiction in our culture. The foregoing are directly contradictory, and we can't deal with it. This is why our very religious people cannot render a judgement on Trump.

  • CMTM , 00
    Nov. 10, 2018 9:03 a.m.

    RE: Karen R.I voted against Hillary for two big reasons: I’m a pro-life Christian, If you could ask the baby, do you think he would choose life?

    And Benghazi, as a Vietnam Veteran, if we did not have air support I would probably not have survived.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 9:01 a.m.

    @rlynn "I went to church to worship and learn of God, and the Gospel of Christ, NOT to be told who I should vote for, or what position I should take on an political issue."

    But if Trump and his movement threaten everything we have come to expect from our political system, and religion says nothing, that renders religion largely useless in the face of great danger. At least we should be able to talk about this in our religious communities.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 8:55 a.m.

    "May I respectfully say that this divide did not begin with Trump. It began with Obama 10 years ago."

    This is the most disturbing comment in this blog today. No, you may not respectfully say this. This horrible Constitutional divide began with Trump! Period.

    This poster yet again deflects with the well worn, and disproven falsehoods that Trump supporters use to blame everyone else except Trump.

    An honest person sees these deflections of blaming Obama. They know that this person can not, and will not defend that which is becoming indefensible.

    Classic deflection. And no this did not begin with Obama. His Presidency was one of honor, morality and not a single arrest, conviction, or indictment. Not one. So to this poster, you are wrong. Why? Try and defend Trump for once without deflection. I'll bet you can not do it.

    The truly religious will not support this con man. And the millennials are leaving religions because they see their hypocrisy.

    This is the reason that supposed Christians who support Trump are having such a dilemma. 60% increase in hate crimes since Trump took office according to the FBI. I know who to blame, and it isn't Obama or Clinton.

  • There You Go Again St George, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 8:55 a.m.

    Inner conflict and turmoil?

    Spending time in the right-wing echo chamber can compromise anyone's ability to solve inner conflict and turmoil.

    Spending time using whataboutism, with regard to trump, to justify his behavior will compromise anyone's ability to solve inner conflict and turmoil.

    The only time I experience inner conflict and turmoil is when I find myself doing things I know I should not be doing.

    Solution...

    Stop doing the things you should not be doing.

    For example...

    Teaching the 10 Commandments and then turning a blind eye to the behavior of the person who spends day after day denying, deflecting and dissembling.

    You can't have it both ways.

    If you try to have it both ways...you end up with inner conflict and turmoil.

    You can't serve Heavenly Father and Mammon.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 8:47 a.m.

    @BYUAlum " I thank God every day that Donald J. Trump is President of the United States. "

    In light of the fact Trump is a lying machine and has few personal morals, I've wondered how guys of your persuasion can say things like this. I think I know. In your view Trump is right, simply right, and if he lies or paid of off past sex trysts simply makes no difference to you. Do I perceive correctly?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 8:43 a.m.

    This story is discusses the conflict religious leaders feel in the era of trump. I've already made my feelings known about it.
    However, BYU Alum has taken a tangent that somehow includes President Obama (the headline reads "since trump took office"), and a litany of old fox yelling points from keep your doctor to the fake media to that old classic, Benghazi.
    The piece isn't about those things. It's about the moral conflict apparently which exists among religious leaders regarding this, the current president. Trump. The star of the 'Access Hollywood' tape. He of the third marriage, this time to a model who has not restrained herself exclusively to 'modesty' clothing. The one who paid the hush money to the porn star and the playboy bunny. The one who dodged military service and used all manner of tricks to ensure those he owed were not paid. The insulter of gold star families and women alike.
    So, for all the transgressions of Presidents past, we're in the here and now. Our current President has some moral compromises worthy of consideration by those who claim moral authority.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 8:03 a.m.

    I listen for three words. I love you. If or when I hear them, I'll vote. It doesn't matter what they say, as much as what they don't say.

  • FTF Park City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 7:49 a.m.

    This phenonmenon is not about faith, it is about authoritarianism, a trait of all religions and many political systems. By its very definition, authoritarians have high tolerance of other authorities and tend to flock together. Immorality of a particular authority has to be extreme before other authorities will start to withdraw support. The most authoritarian of religions will stick with a totalitarian leader to the end, religious dogmas counting for nothing. This is what's happening in America today.

  • rlynn Brandon, FL
    Nov. 10, 2018 7:44 a.m.

    "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." Mark 12:17.
    Religion and politics do not mix, and should be separate. I went to church to worship and learn of God, and the Gospel of Christ, NOT to be told who I should vote for, or what position I should take on an political issue. Once my church started to tell me how I should vote I left. One's religious believes or faith can guide you in your daily life and on election day. Those religious leaders who feel it is their duty to commit on the news of the day, are not preaching the Gospel of Christ and his grace. For salvation comes from God through the grace of Jesus, not what political party you belong to.

  • Aggielove Caldwell, ID
    Nov. 10, 2018 7:32 a.m.

    God bless Pres. Trump
    We owe him great deal for even deciding to take the role of president.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Nov. 10, 2018 7:02 a.m.

    I think this time in our history is proving once again that religion is not a reliable factor in people sticking to their claimed morals and principles. It's too malleable; too easily spun to match one's own view or immediate interests. IMO, if you want to know what a person's god is, then pay attention to what their source of truth is. Right now, for most Americans, one of their gods is tribe. If someone in one's tribe said/did it, it's right or at least justifiable. The other side? Automatically wrong and possibly evil, too.

    I hope we can get back to what made us unique among nations when we were born 242 years ago: belief in reason, process, and objective truth as determined by the evidence. No worshiping of personalities or groups. Just fidelity to honesty, integrity, and doing our best to determine from the evidence what is most likely true, the chips fall where they may.

    Religion is not a "chips fall where they may" system. It is not a question looking for answers. It's a conclusion that requires that reality be shaped to conform to it, lest if fall apart.

  • macnkat Riverton, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 6:56 a.m.

    The political division was happening long before Trump took office. It started in 2008 and has been progressively gotten worse as too many people can't accept the outcome of the 2016 election. But I suppose you can blame Trump if you like...it seems to be the popular thing to do.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Nov. 10, 2018 6:29 a.m.

    "In 2011, 30 percent of white evangelicals and 63 percent of religious "nones" said an elected official who behaves immorally in private can still be an ethical leader. Five years later, that figure had jumped to 72 percent for white evangelicals, while the share of religious "nones" who held that view (60 percent) was almost the same."

    Why did white evangelicals change their minds on what has historically been at the heart of their social/political/theological opinion(s)? What is the impetus? And to what end?

    IMHO, it is possible for an privately immoral person who has not crossed the boundary of doing harm to others to be an ethical leader. However this generally involves issues of fidelity in marriage in the minds of many of us. Yet, it would appear that white evangelicals have torpedo'd this view of the sanctity of marriage and assume that someone who can't control their libidinous tendencies might be an otherwise good representative or leader. Again, what changed? And why?

    The answer to those questions will define the future of white evangelism for decades and might be the metaphorical "cross to bear" for that group of people for generations.

  • ute alumni Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 5:48 a.m.

    Actions speak louder than words. There appears only liberals scream cry turn cars over protest march terrorize people attherehomes and anywhere they cross paths with others that have different views. They are encouraged to do so by democrat leaders. I believe the time is coming that conservatives will react in similar fashion. I hope not but sleeping giants will awake.

  • BYUalum South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 3:31 a.m.

    May I respectfully say that this divide did not begin with Trump. It began with Obama 10 years ago. He is the one who started the divide in 2009 with the verbal battle with law enforcement at Cambridge, "The police acted stupidly." The healthcare battle continued with, "You can keep your doctor, etc. You'll save $2,500 a year on your healthcare." Lack of accountability in Benghazi in 2012 further divided this country. The flooding of immigration without border security inflamed conservatives. Apology tours and tension around the world, especially North Korea, caused division. And, don't forget the role of 90% of the media in all of this in biased coverage which divides Americans every single day!

    Don't put all this on President Donald J. Trump. He is still working to clean up the problems in the FBI who were shielding the left in high offices. I thank God every day that Donald J. Trump is President of the United States. He is bold and brash. We haven't had a Republican president like that, and I like someone standing up for us, the American people for a change!

    God bless America!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 1:31 a.m.

    If religious leaders can claim to be ambiguous or conflicted about trump and yet still claim moral authority they've no right to wonder why 'none' is the fastest growing religion in America.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 10, 2018 12:10 a.m.

    As the Rev. Robertson said, "If we can't agree on where we currently are, how do we figure out together where we need to go?"

    Many of us expect faith leaders to render a judgement as to what President Trump and his movement represent. I believe Trump and his movement are a new American fascism, and represent the greatest threat to constitutional government we have ever seen. Yes or no.

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Nov. 9, 2018 11:10 p.m.

    People on all sides of the political spectrum need to spend more time talking TO eachother (not just "at" eachother) and actively listening to eachother without forming snap judgments. If people honestly look for common ground, they will probably find it. As one who regards myself as a political conservative and something of a religious liberal, it is as though I have one foot on one side of the political spectrum, and the other foot on the opposite side of the religious spectrum. I have gotten some rather puzzled and quizzical reactions from people over the years.